The Battle over Hindu History

I am very much surprised and sad after reading this article. She is auther of so many books on Hinduism and is a professor of the subject. When someone thinks or writes on any subject he or she should keep all facts known till date. Why there were cruseds? what is the controvery about Jerusalam ? why there is war going on in Iraq and Afganistan? Why Christian missionaries ? Why Jehad ? She is writing that without any facts Hindues are fighting fo temple at Ayodhya. What is the history of Babri maszid ?. How it came up at the holiest of Hindu places ?
All the time it is claimed that Aryans have come from outside India without discussing origing of Sanskrit and the Vedas. No body mentions everytime while writing about U.S.A. that europeans migrated to U.S.A. and america and its culture and all its modern development is because of that. What about slavery and colonization, should writers mention these things always when writing about westurn culture ?
All such writings will lead to nowhere. we should be sensible enough to understand that human thoughts attained greated height in vedas and upnishadas. The modern human civilization if it is to succeed and it will, will have to derive and follow that balance, middle path which permits freedom of thought and coexistance to all and all parts of the world. we should globalise good thoughts and traditions, and should not go on repeating falsehood and meaningless ideas.

I sincerely hope the blog has chosen a wrong portion to represent the book. If indeed, the book does talk about Hinduism in this way, I feel more sad that the author holds such a responsible position.

A great poet once said "My desire to understand its greatness is like an ant trying to cross the ocean on a leaf". The poet was Kalidasa and he was refering the great great clan of Lord Rama - The Raghuvamsha.

I suppose the same analogy can be applied when one attmepts to understand Hinduism.

The author correctly states "that anyone who begins a sentence with the phrase, "The Hindus believe. . . ," is talking nonsense.". Such is the beauty of Hinduism that you cannot appreciate or attack it because you dont know where to start. Yet, the Vedas and Upanishads are the binding blocks of Hinduism and Hindus. I doubt if the author even knows what they are in first place.

Finally, a word to anyone picking on caste system and women rights

The land that is India happens to have had women composing parts of Vedas (Gargi and Maithreyi), had Smt. Indira Gandhi as a Prime Minster and has Smt. Pratibha Patil as a President (preceded by APJ Kalam - a Muslim, and KR Narayanan - a Dalit).

Hindu History is a very long one - stretching from beliefs 5,000 ago to present.

Hinduism was the religion that inspired even Christianity. AFTER ALL, THE MYTHS OF JESUS IS BASED ON MITHRA OF MITHRAISM.

"There is no one Hindu view of karma, or of women, or of Muslims; there are so many different opinions" ALTHOUGH CHRISTIANITY DOES NOT HAVE ONE VIEW EITHER - THERE ARE SEVERAL CHRISTIAN GROUPS HERE IN THE WEST THAT ARE ARYAN-WANNABES, LIKE THE KKK, CHURCH OF ARYAN NATIONS-CHRISTIAN, CSA, etc...

THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY OF INDIA, MORE HINDUS HAVE BEEN KILLED (e.g., by Islamists) THAN ANY OTHER GROUPS.

hsnkhwj you need to read the Hindu texts. Women can enter heaven just like men. Not only that, but female goddesses are revered in Hindu religion, I don't see any other religion doing that. As far as caste goes, the permanency of the caste system was created by the Brahamins in order to retain power. If one reads the vedas (the original hindu texts) they will find that caste is not fixed and does not contain the rigidity it contains today. Fanaticism in any religion is bad, and as a Hindu I can't stand the religious fanatacial morons in my religion and believe they should be taken to some deserted island to live out their days. For those that will critize the oldest living religion, look at your own history, you might be shocked at the crimes that were conducted in the name of god. Western scholars need to stop preaching to us about our religion. I am sick and tired of interpretations of my religion through western lenses. Stick to your culture, you guys have done enough damage, but refuse to take any responsibility. Just look a the state of the world, most of these problems were a result of colonialism. The last time I checked, all those jerks were Christians. By the way for those knocking Muslims, cut it out, they are responsible for some the greatest discoveries in mankind. It is time to give credit where it is due. Western civilizations have been great at stealing other peoples ideas, its time that the rest of the world has its moment to shine and be acknowledged for their contribution to history.

I think the writer has no idea about Hinduism. It is a religion (thought) that believes in oneness of all things and all religions. It is a thought that tells you to beyond the physical existence and be one with the cosmos or the cosmic being. The writer has particularly highlighted only the bad instances regarding Hinduism. The other question I have to her is what about the history of other religions. Have all other religions given equal rights to women, or people of other religions? How about a comment on that.
In Hinduism they worship women in the form of a goddess. Also in temples it is always the god and goddess together that are worshiped. The meaning behind it that "God" exists both in man and women. Hinduism is a religion that believes that god exists in all beings living and non living.The writer has conveniently ignored many facts about Hinduism. Vedas and Bhagavat Gita are most important religious texts of Hinduism. Hinduism is a religion that has accepted all religions and their religious thoughts wholeheartedly. Maybe, she should do more research on that.
This a very poor and misunderstood take on the most ancient religion-Hinduism that had given the world the most profound knowledge of oneness and peace.It has survived the test of time and fanaticism through hundreds of centuries.
I really hope the book is better and gives a more non-biased thought about Hinduism than this article.

Ms. Doniger exhibits a surprising lack of understanding of Hinduism and it is amazing that she has been given so much space and privilege in these columns and even more amazing that she is a professor of History of Religions and teaching Hinduism at that. Every one of her paragraphs is riddled with prejudice and some personal agenda.
Hinduism is probably the one religion that celebrates women and reveres them in the form of goddesses. Of course, there are social evils such as dowry that have not been completely eliminated but they have nothing to do with Hinduism. The dowry system is just as prevalent among the Christians and Muslims in India.
One should understand the context of the recent attacks on Churches in Mangalore, India. The New Life Church goes around distributing booklets containing highly objectionable articles against the hindus and hinduism and urging people to convert. While violence cannot be justified, some hindus took exception to these booklets and broke the glass windows of a few churches. No one was killed or even seriously injured. Imagine some muslims or hindus doing a very similar thing in the US against the Christians and I can bet that those people will be killed, and their places of worship destroyed. There are probably more churches in India than even the US and the churches own more land in India than any other organization except for the Indian army. It goes to show how tolerant the Indian public has been to accomodate other faiths. There are 150 million muslims living in India with the potential to be the next president, superstar heroes in Bollywood, Oscar winning music directors, billionaires, etc - Hindus in Pakistan cannot even dream to achieve for instance.
What happened in Kandhamal where a lot of christian homes were burnt and the people booted out of their homes also was a result of christian marxists (oxymoron?) killing a hindu religious leader along with a few of his followers including a woman in broad daylight for resisting conversions.
Similarly, the Godhra riots where more than 1000 muslims were killed was a direct consequence to some 50+ hindu devotees being burnt alive in a train. Again, imagine 50 white christians being burnt alive in a train by blacks and you can imagine the reaction among the public in the US. What is never mentioned is that more than 300 hindus also died in those riots because that weakens the convenient theory that the train incident was engineered to trigger these riots.
If people like Ms. Doniger stop talking ill of other religions and stop indulging in religious conversions, the world would be a much more peaceful place.

Printed from




Jaipur woman burnt alive for dowry
23 Mar 2009, 0311 hrs IST, TNN

JAIPUR: In yet another dowry death in the district, a 32-year-old woman was allegedly set on fire by her in-laws at Kumharon Ka Mohalla under Bassi police station on Saturday. She was rushed to SMS Hospital in Jaipur where she succumbed to her injuries on Sunday morning. The victim’s father has lodged an FIR, but no arrest has been made as yet.

According to police, the deceased – Anju Devi – was repeatedly beaten up by her in-laws including her husband Mahesh Jangid and his brother Bhanwar Lal. “Anju’s father Laxminarayan said that Mahesh and his family were demanding dowry ever since they got married a few years back. On Saturday morning, Mahesh, Bhanwar Lal and his wife poured kerosene and set her on fire at their house in Bassi,” said Rameshwar Bagariya, in-charge of Bassi police station.

In fact, this was not the first time that quarrel over dowry took an ugly turn. The victim’s father, a retired government employee, had to lodge an FIR against the in-laws earlier also, but after the intervention of relatives, a compromise was reached and the in-laws promised that they would properly lookafter Anju.

READ FULL STORY IN TIMESOFINDIA.COM

EC holds Varun Gandhi guilty in hate speech row

The Election Commission on Sunday night held Varun Gandhi, a Bharartiya Janata Party (BJP) nominee for Lok Sabha polls from Uttar Pradesh, guilty of breaching the model code of conduct and asked the party not to field him as candidate.

READ FULL STORY:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage

I think there is another aspect of the issue that people seem to conveniently forget. The founding fathers of India, the major voices in the Constituent assemby, were strongly influenced by liberal and socialistic principles, and not by driven by contemporary or ancient Hindu philosophies. Nehru was a known socialist, both in his political as well as in his economic principles. Under him the polity of India moved towards the left, and stayed there for 30 years. The principle book that Gandhi based his ideas were not the Vedas, but the works of Tolstoi. Thus many of the positive aspects of modern India were in fact more due to secular western, rather than Hindu influences.

It should be noted also that a large number of important persons from those days were educated in the west.

The goodwill that was generated by these leaders continued till Mrs Gandhi (the original, not the current pseudo Mrs Gandhi) decided to follow the instincts of her son and hold on to power in an undemocratic fashion.

Throughout the whole process, starting in the 1930s with local self government elections, these modern liberal leaders had to fight with the narrow parochial religion based elements of society, and they won most of the battles.

Until the Rath Jatra, that is. Along with the corruption in the secular parties, the lack of leadership led to the takeover by these forces of what I can only describe as unmitigated evil. The pseudo-religious parties employed every dirty trick they could to exploit the cracks in Indian society to win the general election.

It would be the equivalent of Strom Thurmond winning the Presidency in 1948 and the dixiecrats bringing back the Jim Crow laws.

What has all this to do with Hindu history? Just to state that the positive aspects of India the country are not based on Hinduism, but the broad secular principles that every modern country in the world is based on.

Many Hindus think that making laws or passage of an ideal constitution solves all the problems.

Hindu Code Bill of 1950s made dowry or the caste system illegal. But dowry is still given and taken in India. The caste system is very much alive there. Follow the incoming elections in India and you will learn this fact.

Some even try to justify the Hindu caste system to be functional. Good or functional for whom: the privileged or the downtrodden untouchables?

While the Brahmin and other "twice born" castes enjoy the pleasures of this life, the poor Dalit gets only the promise of "better Life" in next life if the Dalit "behaves" and continues to serve the "twice-born" castes.

Appointing a Muslim or a Dalit President of India represents "show pieces" for propaganda purposes. The truth of the matter is that the BJP, the RSS, the Bajrang Dal, or the shiva Sena are black marks on India's so-called largest democracy.

Christian churches are still being burnt down in India, and there is a widespread discrimination against minorities. Not only Muslims and Christians are denied jobs but are being discriminated in housing. Muslims are not allowed to buy or rent in new housing development. PRETEXT: This is only for vegetarians.

Hindu communal elements have infiltrated even the Indian Army. They have been caught to plot bombings and carrying them out only to frame innocent Muslims. THEY DECIDED TO TAKE FULL ADVANTAGE OF THE ANTI-MUSLIM ENVIRONMENT AFTER 9/11.

I was wondering something.

Every time some westerner talk about Hindu history, they seem to invariable end up talking about the Kama Sutra and the erotic sculpture on the temple walls.

Of course, it is beyond doubt that the Kama Sutra is not a religious book. Whether the sculptures formed an inportant part of Hindu religion at that point of time is debatable, but I doubt such debates are within the capacity of these writers.

So, why do they invariably end up talking about sex?

pnabhans: I don't blame religion for everything. I blame all religions equally for whatever ills religion has caused. Because we're not tied to any one particular religion, atheists don't lose sight of the forest because of the trees.

When you step back, the hindu forest looks just like the christian forest, which looks just like the muslim forest, which looks just like the jewish forest...ad nauseum.

The Hindu religion is remarkably poetry rich, with unfathomable beauty. An example:

1. WITH all thy beauty come: the kine approaching with full udders follow on thy path.
2 Come with kind thoughts, most liberal, rousing the warrior's hymn of praise, with bounteous ones,
3 As nourishers we tie the thread, and, liberal with our bounty, offer sacrifice.
4 Dawn drives away her Sister's gloom, and, through her excellence, makes her retrace her path.

//And so from the very start India was a place made up of land and people from somewhere else. India itself is an import, or if you prefer, Africa outsourced India (and just about everyone else).//

It is evident from above that in your subconcious, you are possessive about India, as if declaring to the world, that people there are not the only ones who own that land. Not a bad emotion.

On the destruction of Babri Masjid, I strongly believe that though BJP does a lot of good by its actions and philosophy, no body gained a cent or a paisa by destroying the historic Babri Masjid monument.

The destruction of Babri Masjid monument by BJP has depleted India's Historical treasue much like Sultan Mahmud Ghaznavi's act of destruction of Somnath Temple and other historic monuments in Gujrat and rest of India.

I should have noted her affiliation with "University of Chicago’s Divinity School". Divinity Schools in the UK and US are the academic arms of Christianity, which is why they never delve into the total lack of evidence of the historicity of their own faith's beginnings, or the atrocities committed (and still being committed, viz. the Pope's comments in Africa about condoms and AIDS) by their zealots. The purpose of Divinity Schools, and the people that they hire, is to rationalize the "superiority" of Christianity; in this regard, not all that different from the goal of Muslim madrassas everywhere.

Probably India is the only country with largest number of fundamentalists, across religon. Hindus trying to re-construct the lost glory due to muslim invaders and British, Muslim fundamentalist who stil believe that they should rule india and idol worshippers dont deserve to live, x'ans who are busy in denigration of Hindu gods and street selling their religions.

One wonders what is the psyche of a fundamentalist? What is it that spurs them on their mission of hatred? How should one deal with such a person? truth seekers must read this:
http://srisriandsimi.blogspot.com/

India is going to have elections soon. Communal and caste based politics playing a major role in these elections again.

One of BJP's young leaders--Varun Gandhi has caused furor in India. Here is the account of one journalist based in India:

"Although caste-based politics and communal mobilisation had a start before Indian independence, their resurgent manifestation as a popular ploy in the country’s democratic journey deserves closer scrutiny. Much outrage was expressed in Wednesday’s papers over Varun Gandhi’s abusive election campaign, in which he threatened to chop the hands of Indian Muslims and send them to Pakistan. (It was a string of filthy speeches but enough for TV channels to seek an improvement in their TRP ratings. Put it to the fallout of global recession!)"

CLEARTHINKING should take a note.

By the way I did a manual count of panel members of "On Faith". Count can be off here and there because of manual counting
There are a total of 102 panel members, of which you can say 4 of them know hinduism none except that chaplain from Nevada may say practises hindusim. I counted Ms.Wendi Doniger also in the count along with Deepak Chopra( what exaclty is he?) , Arun gandhi ( A social worker may be ) and Rajan Sed. If you consider other religions except for 1 or 2 persons all others does not take a critical look at the religion they are representing( They are either priests or activists advocating their religion in groups like inter faith).
Well this tells the story and that is why I should kick myself for wasting my time with this forum and what it represents

People who equate Hinduism and India are not THINKINGCLEARLY. India is a country and Hinduism is a religion. The two are not synonymous.

People who think India and Hinduism are synonymous are responsible for maligning or getting India maligned.

India is a great country. Its constitution is democratic and its objective is to promote peace, equality and harmony among its people.

The real problem in India is the communal parties like BJP, Bajrang Dal, Vishwa Hindu Parishad and Shiva Sena.

These groups and parties thrive and want to come to power by promoting divisions and are not interested in reforms. They do not want to give equal rights to minorities or restore the rights of the Dalits (the untouchables).

First of all whom am I ? I am an Indian practicing Hindu who is neither an upper cast nor a lower cast.
Garak et. al. who finally start blaming religion for every misery in the world I want to know when they say truth what exactly that means. It is as if these academic are eternal truth sayer’s.
Frankly these academics do not change anything in the world, so the delusion of grandeur is theirs not an average Joe like me. You have to realize that for majority of the followers in every religion faith is a helpful thing to survive.
As a Hindu from India I also believe that it was a totally wrong thing to demolish Babri Masjid. There can be many reasons for both sides about the temple and mosque but without consent of the Muslim population nobody should have touched that. Whatever we argue people were killed on that basis, emotion of people hurt and a big divide happened between Muslims and Hindu. It was a shameful thing to do in the name of Hinduism.
Personally I am happy that my religion allows me to practice the religion the way I want it and way I feel gives me strength, knowledge and peace. I can do whatever, I can say whatever, and even then my birth, death or life changing things like marriage cannot be dictated by my religion. I have married across caste, language, region and I can say that.
I am not a scholar in my religion but I have this much sense to say that people sitting in far away place analyzing and categorizing does not affect anything. Real changes happen from within and there are people like that in Hinduism, like Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Sri Narayana Guru, Sai baba etc.
People like Wendi Doniger can live in the richest country and can analyze things to its basics. They can have any number of students who will follow them and think they understand everything. They can analyze things to tell the "truth" which is to tell all the ignorant person like me how foolish we are and that we should believe her and her tribe than our gods, our myths , our way of life. Oh sure my lord.

Somebody mentioned Rajneesh. Two points to note:

The followers of Rajneesh at Oregon were generic white people with more Marx and Sex in them than Hinduism. Since when is Sheela Silverman, the name of the main culprit, a Indian name?

Second, nobody can become a Hindu. There is no conversion process, and so the followers of Rajneesh, unless they were born so, cannot be called Hindus.

If you want to blame anything, blame the 60s and 70's generation of long haired hippies, free sex and drugs

This is quite absurd. What is the connection between the pre-human movement of the Indian landmass or the African origins of humans to Hinduism? If Doniger wished to cast a less jaundiced eye on HIndus, which she clearly doesn't, then she might have pointed out that there are strong links between the Indus valley civilization and Hinduism as practiced today; an unbroken continuity that is truly mind boggling. However, she would first need to get past her Eurocentric biases.

Hindus, like followers of all religions, are too deluded to see the truth. The truth is that Hinduism, like all other religions, is a collection of primitive superstitions created by self-delusional primitives. Hinduism is no worse, and no better, than any other religion. Hindusim, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and all other religions are all equal blights upon humanity.

For a review of this book:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/18/AR2009031803924.html

It does mention her experience in the area.

Her references to plate tectonics and human migration out of Africa -- pre-date civilization and religion, as any high school student is expected to know.

This is needless distraction into an area she apparently knows little.

By such comments

Vasu201:

What a twisted logic!

The only proven incident of bioterrorism the U.S. has ever experienced, was a bizarre plot by the Rajneeshee Hindus, to steal a county election in Oregon in 1984. The Rajneeshees, followers of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, a self-proclaimed guru exiled from India, had moved into a ranch in rural Wasco County, taken political control of the small nearby town of Antelope, and changed its name to Rajneesh. Next, the Hindus sought to run the whole county by winning the local election in 1984.

The amazing story of the Wasco County election scandal was revealed by Leslie L. Zaitz, an investigative reporter for The Oregonian, and Dr. John Livengood, an epidemiologist at the Centers for Disease Control. To win the county election, the Rajneeshee Hindus planned to sicken a good portion of the population in the town of The Dalles, where most Wasco County voters live. Their weapon of choice to keep local residents from voting was salmonella bacteria.

These Rajneeshi Hindus decided to test the use of salmonella and, if successful, to contaminate the entire water system of The Dalles on Election Day. First, these Hindus poisoned two visiting Wasco County commissioners on a hot day by plying them with refreshing drinks of cold water laced with salmonella.

Then, on a shopping trip to The Dalles, these Hindus sprinkled salmonella on produce in grocery stores "just for fun." According to reporter Zaitz, that experiment didn't get the results they wanted so the Rajneeshee Hindus proceeded to clandestinely sprinkle salmonella at the town's restaurant salad bars. Ten restaurants were hit and more than 700 people got sick.

The saffron clad (semiliterate and illiterate) sants (Hindu holy men) behind the Hindu extremist movement spearheaded by the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), the Bajrang Dal and such outfits have a deep hatred of the US and the West, as much as the Islamic fundamentalists.

Hinduism is violently opposed not only to Islam but also Christianity. The Hindu right wing extremists want to destroy the secular fabric of India, eliminate Muslims and turn Christians into second class citizens and take the country back into the medieval dark ages of Hinduism.

If hordes of barbaric Hindus invaded London, Lester or wherever else, wishing to convert Christians to Hinduism, plundered a church and then created a temple in its place, and then the said temple is not used for hundreds of years and currently lies in ruins, then bringing down the old ruined temple and bringing back the old church may have merit. This would be a more accurate comparison.

I have a question for those who claim a justification for destroying the Babri mosque by the Hindus that there was a temple there before the mosque was built.

Hindus have burnt down Christian churches in Orissa and other places.

Will the Christians be justified in destroying Hindu temples in London, Lester, or America?

I find it odd that people are saying the Wendy Doniger is wrong in saying that there is no Hindu temple under the ruins of the Babri Masjid mosque. I dug this out of Google this morning, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babri_Mosque
QUOTE
After the demolition of Babri masjid, Professor Ram Sharan Sharma along with Historians Suraj Bhan, M.Athar Ali and Dwijendra Narayan Jha came up with the Historian's report to the nation on how the communalists were mistaken in their assumption that there was a temple at the disputed site and how it was sheer vandalism in bringing down the mosque and the book has been translated into all the Indian languages.
UNQUOTE
Now the same article also says that The Archaeology Society of India found
QUOTE
“ stone and decorated bricks as well as mutilated sculpture of a divine couple and carved architectural features, including foliage patterns, amalaka, kapotapali, doorjamb with semi-circular shrine pilaster, broke octagonal shaft of black schist pillar, lotus motif, circular shrine having pranjala (watershute) in the north and 50 pillar bases in association with a huge structure" [14] ”
UNQUOTE
Piles of rubble from other demolished buildings not on site could have been used as fill for the mosque. However, the waterchute and the pillar bases would support the claim of an earlier structure there. As with any scientific claim, it would have to be verified by other archeological peers. So how about funding a multi-national, non-indian (i.e. unbiased) excavation to do the verification?

Clearthinking is far removed from being a clear mind.

During the early 1950s, Nehru got the Hindu Code Bill passed from the parliament outlawing the caste system and evils like the dowry system.

The dowry is still given and taken in India.

Caste system is well and alive in India.Even the elections are fought on the basis of the caste loyalties and alliances.

Bottled cow urine is being sold as a soft drink as a cure for all ailments. People still paint their mud houses with cow dung.

Brides are still being killed for not bringing "enough" dowry.

Widows are still being killed in the name of Sati.

Christian churches are being burnt down in states from Orissa to Karnataka.

Hindus like us to believe that they are nonviolent people and yet committed genocide of more than 2000 Muslims in Gujarat in 2002.

Of course, the writer of this article is correct that they demolished the Babri mosque, while police stood by idly.

What a way to defend the constitution of India!

Hindu and Christian minorities are discriminated in every possible way in jobs and employment. How does it help the masses if they appoint a Muslim president occasionally?

How many like HSNKHWJ are aware that in Saudi Arabia a South Asian Muslim (Indian, Sri Lankan, Pakistani or Bangladeshi) cannot stand shoulder to shoulder with their Saudi counterparts in a Mosque while offering their prayers. They are segregated required to stand at the back, rather like the Dalits.

Visit any Gulf Airport, you will have a separate line for Arabs and a separate line for South Asians. Many Muslims will be shocked to know that in Saudi Arabia the non arabic muslims are scorned at as 'converts' and are in fact treated worse than their Hindu counterparts.

I do not agree with this notion that a book on india can be better written by an indian only.
When we read all other subjects written in the west and quote reference from it then why can't we endure a scholarly book on indian history, after all this is not the first book written on india by a western author.

Let us see how prejudice our own nature is, and why?

vjg3

Shame on those who distort the facts.
How come you say not a single muslim was killed in the aftermath of babri mosque roits.

Some one on this forum continuously posts claims that hindus are non-aggresive people, that they never invaded any one.
My argument is: India itself is a sub-continent and the indian history is full of wars between different kingdoms in india.
secondly they have their own ways of explioting the weak masses.
Why they have to wage a war when cleaverness can serve their purpose.
They stab their enemy while chanting slogans for peace.

Here we go again. Another Westerner telling us Hindus about our history and how we should live. Credibility of this author and how much research she has done is stark in the first few paragraphs itself when she says God Shri Ram's Mandir (temple) in Ayodhya is a myth. If she cared to really research deeply she would find that Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) has found pillars of the ancient temple buried under the remains of Babri Dhacha (structure), they have found God Shri Krishna's Dwarka Nagri (city) almost as it is undersea 100 km from the coast of Dwarikadheesh Mandir in Gujarat. As per initial dating they have dated it as over 10000 years old, at least.

Last month a complete 3000 years old God Shiv Mandir has been found by Research of Ancient History dept, Laknou University.

Over 260,000 Hindus have laid their lives protecting Shri Ram Mandir in Ayodhya from Muslim invaders.

Mahmud Gazni destroyed Shri Somnath temple in 1025 AD, a temple which has been destroyed 7 times by invaders and rebuilt.

Hindu Kush mountain range used to be called Hinduraj. Hindu Kush in arabic means Hindu Slayers and Hinduraj in Sanskrit means Hindu rulers. Over 5 million Hindus died because they chose not to convert to Islam. Everyone talks of despicable holocaust, this part of history you just want to deny us.

Even an average joe Hindu like me knows my history well and here we have a foreigner telling me what my ancients did for me. Just Google search or just goto Google video to search "Ayodhya", "Hindu Genocide Bangladesh", "Underwater Dwarka City", "Scientific Verification Hinduism" and you will find countless documentaries proving the contrary of what Ms. Doniger is saying.

With all due respect I am worried about those students at University of Chicago who study such false Myths that Ms. Doniger is spreading branded as Hindu's true history.

If Ayodhya is a myth than what is the proof that Bethlehem, Jerusalem and Mecca are not? They are also just somebody's words. Take it easy.

AN ODD BUT REVEALING TITLE:
"The Battle over Hindu History"

Why do nonHindus like this author Doniger want to define the "narrative" for Hindus. Hindus don't proselytize and and have never attacked another country. They have lived where they are for thousands of years.

Thousands of brilliant scholars of Sanskrit and Hinduism exist in India. Feel free to read and learn from those who truly know and understand Hinduism and its history.

Why does this American from Chicago feel the need to write about something she does not understand well? Is there an agenda? Is her name Wendy Doniger O'Flaherty or Wendy Doniger?

It's amusing to watch the Hindu-haters come out of their caves.

HSNKHWJ is a well known muslim who seems to be insecure and unable to defend Islam, and likes to spew vitriol against Hindus.
He writes,
"The inequality of humans from birth to death (and to eternity) in the Hindu caste system is unparallel in history. By the way, women can not enter heaven in this Hindu ethos. Only men can."

A few facts: The constitution of India has outlawed any discrimination based on cast; the constitution was written by a dalit, not Nehru or Gandhi; the current Chief Justice of the Supreme Court is dalit; a recent President of India was dalit; Significant reservations are made for scheduled castes at universities. Significant progress has been made since independence in 1947. More progress and reform will be made in time.

"unparallel in human history":
Much worse parallels exist in recent human history. The "low caste" Black slaves in America & Britain are an example. Low castes in India were never treated so poorly. The caste system was a corruption of a social structure based on division(4) of labor in a society - knowledge, politics, business, and labor. The labor "caste" was the lowest. This is not supposed to be by birth, and is not now - that is why any caste can be President or Chief Justice in India. Blacks in America had limited rights, but not now - Obama is President.

Hindu-haters do not want to acknowledge that tolerant and peaceful societies make progress. They like to selectively talk about the past, while trying not to acknowledge that Hinduism is a tolerant and flexible religion amenable to reform.

On "women cannot enter heaven"
This is just a bald-faced lie by a man with an agenda and full of hatred and anger. Hinduism is filled with Godesses who are equally revered by men & women. It is not at all a patriarchal religion like Islam.

The evolution of Hindu society from the Indus Valley Civilization (which was Dravidian)and the invasion of the Aryans from Asia Minor arose a unique system of social stratification known as the caste system. This caste system was so powerful that later invasions of Muslims and the British could not change or abolish it.

On the contrary it absorbed them.

The processes of diffusion and acculturation were at work with the result that Muslims of India are unique in that they have a caste system of their own. The Muslims of the Indian sub-continent also have a four-fold division of (1) Syeds, (2) Shaiks, (3) Mirzas, and (4) Pathans.
Outside this four-fold divisions are the artisans like Julahas (weaver),Mochis (shoe-makers)and others with, of course, regional variations.

But the caste system among the Muslims of India is not as rigid as that of the Hindus. For example, all Muslims, irrespective of their castes and economic status can stand in the same row and pray together in the mosque. Intercaste marriages may not be as restrictive among Muslims as they are among the Hindus.

Even the Christians of India have a caste system inherited from their Hindu ancestry.

Let me remind the readers that the very first article of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states:

"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."

Does the Hindu caste appear to be compatible with the Article 1 of the UNiversal Declaration of Human Rights?

I think not. The inequality of humans from birth to death (and to eternity) in the Hindu caste system is unparallel in history. By the way, women can not enter heaven in this Hindu ethos. Only men can.

The silliest part of these foaming-at-the-mouth comments is that no one who's writing them has actually _read_ the book. Why should anyone take them seriously when the author hasn't done the most basic work before running at the mouth! Almost as good: citing Wikipedia, that peerlessly authoritative biographical reference. I'm looking forward to reading the book, checking out its arguments, and _then_ having an opinion.

Doniger's infamous penchant for shadow boxing with the big bad "Hindu right" now plays out for all of us in this infomercial of a post--another book to pedal, another craven attempt to stir up false controversy. But then, what credibility can a writer carry when a post begins with a denial that the Islamic Emperor Babur may have actually destroyed a temple over whose ruins he built a mosque--a practice repeated so often in Northern India, that just as with the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem, every site holy to Hindus is forced to share space with a mosque built by marauding Muslim invaders as they destroyed the original temple. But then, if I believe that reality, I must be a votary of the Hindu right!

Renowned for her salacious and lusty visions of all things Hindu, Doniger is a throwback paragon of all that was so wrong in the Western study of Hinduism. The Doniger's and her ilk plied their trade before Edward Said had redefined Orientalism, when almost no teacher of Hinduism in the academy brought the emic perspective (they actually practiced the religion they claimed expertise in), and before Hindu Americans realized that Doniger and her patrons had reduced Hinduism to nothing more than an exoticized, eroticized, phatasmic polytheistic system--yup, exactly what you saw in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom!

Hinduism's contributions--the very concept of religious tolerance and pluralism, yoga, ayurveda, meditation, karma, reincarnation, etc. completely ignored or marginalized.

Prof. Doniger has spent a career insisting that beyond prurient gods and goddesses, Hindus have a caste system. She insists that Hindu pluralism means that Hindus have no central beliefs--no coherent coda. Wrong again...Dr. Doniger, practicing Hindus do have beliefs that guide and shape their lives and define their narratives of the universe. They are varied, diverse and pluralistic--but they believe:

http://www.himalayanacademy.com/basics/nineb/

The key to understanding Hinduism is the MONISTIC PHILOSOPHY. This seems like the one critical aspect that Ms. Doniger does not understand well. Her description : "Doniger’s research and teaching center on Hinduism and mythology. Her courses in Hinduism cover mythology, literature, law, gender and ecology."

ONE THING ABOUT HINDUISM IS CLEAR. If you do not understand the philosophy, you cannot understand the mythology, literature, law, gender, and ecology(?). Everybody needs a job and a career to pay bills, and Ms. Doniger has found a place in Chicago. She does not qualify as an expert with an understanding of Hinduism or history.

This website sure needed something. I don't know if this is it. We'll see -- if the usual subjects show up, it's for nought.

Speaking of myths, one might referrence the work of Joseph Campbell. He had a mighty fine "take" on all the myths, none of the anger displayed here. Maybe a little sarcasm, on some of them -- always welcome.

Good luck to all who enter here.

Anyone who thinks that a stray and politicized incident like Babri Masjid is a defining moment in Hindusim, needs to .. well, needs help.

Given that the Christians, Muslims and Jews have spent a better part of their entire existance indulging in crusades, jihad, holocausts and genocide, it is ironic that some obscure person in an equally obscure university should be calling Hinduism intolerant. Didn't Sikhism, Buddhism and Jainism evolve out of this religion, and haven't they been nurtured and allowed to develop in the same region.

As someone has commented, this person who presumes to write about History, is in fact completely ignorant of ... History.

Hinduism predates Christianity and Islam, why is this 'educated' person then trying to assess it from the narrow prism of these two rather predatory religions. Racism (and Facism) is alive and kicking in North America, the Middle East and the West, what on earth is this woman talking about?

Thanks for the Wikipedia link Intellectual Tapori. Puts things in the right perspective.

Wendy Doniger sounds like another westerner with an agenda and personal issues to resolve. The lack of understanding of Hinduism and its philosophy is clear in this brief essay and advertisement for her book:

ON RENUNCIATION, SHE WRITES:
"A profound psychological understanding of addiction to material objects is evident throughout the history of Hinduism...One reaction to this perceived danger was to control addiction through asceticism or renunciation." Anyone with even a limited exposure to Vedanta and Hinduism should have a better appreciation of the profound nature of renunciation.

SIMPLISTIC UNDERSTANDING OF HISTORY:
"the belief, whether true or false, that the British were greasing cartridges with animal fat, sparked a revolution in India in 1857." Oh! that's what "sparked a revolution" in 1857. Those silly Indians.

Can't wait to spend time and money on this book.

Destruction of Babri Masjid mosque ( a non-functioning one) did not cause single Muslim death. In return, Muslim rioted all over India causing many deaths, broke down many Indian temples in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Hinduism is not puranatical. First Islam and then Brits made it so. Real Hinduism is liberal- Kamasutra, equal rights for women, Khajuraho. Only religion where women are worshipped.

The real intolerance is Islam based Pakistan- killed and drove off most Hindus after partition while 150 million Muslims live in India.

RAVITCHN:
Thank you for putting in your word from Chennai ... or is it China?

Intolerance ... is not the sole preserve of Hinduism (And lest someone read Ms. Doniger's hagiography and lecture the Indians themselves in the oh so self smug tone of how much they purportedly know now of the shenanigans of the Hindu faith, let it be said, that Hinduism ... and the catch-all within its boundary, were invented by the British using a term borrowed from Farsi ... yes, ask Xerxes!).

Unlike the faiths born West of the Oxus river, India's culture has always had a philosophical mooring ... and have always called themselves that ... a way (paddhati ... a path to be walked on). Whereas, in the West, the emphasis has been of congregation ... forced mostly. Be like us, and then we can walk together. Now, what is more intolerant. The way, that allows each to find their own way ... or the way that forces each to yoke themselves to only one interpretation of one prophet, one messiah, one tome?

This is not to say that Indian society does not have its blemishes. Oh there are plenty. But it is the holier than thou attitude and the nefarious agenda of the smug Western academics which is to be questioned. Wherefrom do these self proclaimed experts in the West procure the license to judge other histories? If that premise is questioned, why call it intolerance? Worse, why label it Hindu intolerance at all?

Would not an Indian academic who wrote "probabingly" about the existence of Christ, or the virgin birth, or about the parting of the Red Sea etc., be subjected to the same queries in the West? Now would not that be intolerant? I guess not ... it would then just be guised as a inter-cultural discourse.

The duplicity is inherent in the way the academic discourse is taxonomized in the West. The West appropriates for itself all that it deems to its advantage and labels it as "Universal" and by extension all else is deemed as "Particularist."

And this is the lasting spell of Ms. Doniger's take on Cirque du Soleil ... her work passes for enlightened Universalist probing ... when in fact she is following a very narrow particularism. We are not informed ... but cheated by the sleight of intellectual chicanery.

If calling a spade be intolerance, then so be it.

It used to be said that Hindus were tolerant. It is good to know that like all believers they are intolerant. Religion pretends to teach love but actually does a better job teaching hate.

To Indians / Hindus perusing this thread.
Question: Why is it that imprints of publication houses in the West, prefer to publish books on India / Pakistan / South Asia / Hinduism / Ancient India etc. by academics who are neither Indian nor rooted in that social, cultural, political and economic milieu? Perhaps it is easier to sell the book with a Western name than by an Indian one (unless of course it is a Booker or Pulitzer winning Indian author or a spiritual guru ala Deepak Chopra).

One has to wonder, that while our fiction is being given kudos, our history is being rewritten as an "alternative". Why is an alternative narrative designed ... but to retro-fit our culture into a desirable mold, to subvert and to change our image of our own self in our very own mind. Hmm ... this sounds like a technique refined in the Germany of 1930s and 1940s ... propaganda anyone?

My thinking is that in the West, (vis-a-vis Indian religions): in the field of fiction, it is non-threatening for the "other" (read Indian) to ask questions and take liberties with the metaphors; it is actually quite threatening and uncomfortable to extend those same liberties in writing non-fiction about History. Because fundamentally, the Indian religious experience stands as a firm antipode to the dominant religions in the West ... and hence this constant chatter of the unity in diversity with respect to the "people of the book" viz. Judaism, Christianity and Islam. This paints Hindus squarely as the "people outside of the book." Hence, our books have to be re-written suitably enough to make us discard them and adopt the other books.

I find it disingenuous that Ms. Doniger's concoction of An Alternative History of the Hindus should be extended the privilege of these columns ... or for that matter, spared any column inches at all.

How convenient for Ms. Doniger to find a readymade scapegoat for all her critics, whether bonafide or not, in the Hindu right. In the interest of full disclosure, let me state, I am not a member of the Hindu right. Quite liberal in fact.

Ms. Doniger's opi has been analyzed in great depth by other Sanskritists from India and the West, who possess strong foundation and erudition in the layered complexities of Vedic grammar and philosophies. And all, almost to a person, have dismissed her as a self-obsessed and aggrandizing academic, living off the pickings of her ambulations in India.

Penguin, could have well considered printing a book by Romila Thapar or even Michael Witzel instead of the fiction spun by the likes of Ms. Doniger and her obsession with the sexuality of "ancient Hindus". Have the editors at Penguin heard of Sudhir Kakkar? Why not bring him to the attention of the intellectual Americans and Europeans?

In these times, where India is getting the renewed interest in the West, it is important that informative texts on that country are made available and not SPECULATIVE ones. Because, as well all know, that the shelves of the large book stores are lined with a lot of titles, by authors who would have us believe in the product of their imaginations ... and not of their intellect.

In the interest of fairness, I would like to leave your readers with the link to the Wikipedia entry on Ms. Doniger. It would be worth to explore fully her moorings prior to plunking down US$35.00 plus tax at the local bookstore. Instead, I should advise them to seek the title by A.L.Basham, The Wonder that was India.

Links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Doniger
http://www.littleindia.com/news/135/ARTICLE/1133/2006-03-13.html

I hope the book is much more in-depth than this tripe.

It is difficult to represent the history of anything like Hinduism in the space of a column, but this is surprisingly low quality, very much like somebody who has not bothered to even do basic research.

First, that important temples were broken during Islamic period is without doubt. It is easy to see (as in Varanasi) as well as easy to find in the historical records left by the court historians of the Idol-breakers.

Second, talking about Babri Masjid without first talking about the partition of India and all the misery and anger that it generated is infantile.

Third, it is difficult to relate to the "sensuality" of the Hindu religion, without talking about the society that generated it. Sort of talking about the Cistine Chapel wall and the naked Jesus and Mary as examples of sexuality in Christianity, as a religion.

Then, a jump to British Period, and how people became "Victorian". As if the jump from the Temples of Khajuraho and the British period is not separated by 1000 years of Islamic rule. Did this person even read any books?

The worst part is that they left out the part that even the ignorant Americans can relate to. During the later part of the Islamic rule, a whole new form of Hinduism came up, combining the universal brotherhood of Islam and the Hindu philosophy of depicting love of God as similar to the love for a lover, and a illicit love at that. From this mixture was born the Bhakti movement, whose somewhat bastardized form lives today in the Hare Krishna movement, which may be somewhat familiar to the western audience.

All in all, a very poor summary. Again, I hope the book is better.