The Professor Pope
In order to understand Pope Benedict, you must remember that in his heart he is a German academic.
If you take a course in theology, sociology or any other subject, the teacher will speak using a technical vocabulary and expect the students to understand what he is saying. It is the students’ responsibility to understand words in the way in which the teacher uses them. If students do not, they flunk.
For Benedict, the world is his classroom, but the students have not grasped the vocabulary and therefore they understand words in their ordinary sense rather than in the technical sense he uses them. Thus he speaks of homosexuals as “disordered,” of the relation between the sexes as not equal but “complementary,” of Protestant communities not being “churches,” of Buddhism being “autoerotic,” and of Islam not being a “rational” religion. He never intended to insult people, but that is the way people feel because they take these words in their ordinary street meaning. He has done this all his life. This is Benedict being Professor Ratzinger.
Benedict is a very smart scholar, but, some say he does not have a politically sensitive bone in his body. Others compliment him for not being concerned about being politically correct. In addition, he is surrounded by people who think he is the smartest man in the world. They are loath to say, “Hey, Pope, you can’t say that.” As a result, he will continue to say things that upset people, not because they understand him, but because he is using words they do not understand.
The latest document to cause controversy is “Responses to Some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine of the Church” from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, now headed by Cardinal William Levada. There is really nothing new in this document that was not more extensively stated in Dominus Iesus issued by Cardinal Ratzinger seven years ago.
First, what does it not say? It did not say that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. In fact it acknowledged “these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church.”
When you get rid of all the double negatives the document says that the Non-Catholic churches and communities are significant and important in the mystery of salvation, and the Spirit of Christ uses then as instruments of salvation.
But document does say that Protestant communities are not churches because they do not have a true episcopacy (with apostolic succession), priesthood and Eucharist. That is the way he defines “church.” Many disagree with that definition and with what is meant by “apostolic succession.” In an ecumenical age, one normally expects these topics to be put on the table for discussion and dialogue. But a German professor does not dialogue with his students.
In reality, when Benedict gets into trouble he is usually not addressing the people who get upset; he is speaking to his own flock. He supports the ecumenical dialogue but is concerned that Catholics are beginning to think that all churches are the same, that it does not matter what church you are in as long as you love Jesus and do good.
There is empirical evidence to support his concern. According to American Catholics Today by William D’Antonio et al., 56 percent of Catholics under 40 years of age say, “I could be just as happy in some other church.” This is a revolutionary change from pre-Vatican II Catholicism. It is not happy news for Catholic leaders who want to keep their flock.
But will the documents coming out of the Vatican turn this around? I doubt it. Other statistics in the book show that younger Catholics will not be receptive to the kind of language that the Vatican uses. This kind of language will drive them away.
By
Thomas J. Reese, S.J.
|
July 20, 2007; 9:15 AM ET
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Culture and Society
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Posted by: Oscar Foster | December 20, 2007 3:34 AM
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It makes perfect sense that "Jesus "warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ".
Anyone can claim to be the messiah, but not anyone can see Him. That requires the Father's intervention through the Holy Spirit, as Jesus later told Peter.
Jesus perhaps wanted people to recognize Him without being told, by the manifestation of the Holy Spirit in Jesus, and in the hearts, minds, ears and eyes of those who truly saw him, perhaps so none could be confused by anyone making similar claims.
Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord! Hossahnah in the highest!
Posted by: Anonymous | July 27, 2007 3:57 PM
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Gospel according to Matthew:
16:17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my CHURCH, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.[e] 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[f] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[g] loosed in heaven." 20Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.
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Stupid is as stupid does!
Jesus "warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ"
How do you know Jesus IS the Christ? It's really sad but no one does what Jesus said and here's another stellar example. All you ministers SHUT UP and do what Jesus told you to do, "don't tell anyone he's the Christ" He wants that kept secret. Blabbermouths! What a pack of stupid jerks.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 25, 2007 4:41 PM
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Dear Soja John Thaikattil:
Sydney, Australia
Gospel according to Matthew:
16:17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my CHURCH, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.[e] 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[f] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[g] loosed in heaven." 20Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.
Soja John Thaikattil, do you see an S after CHURCH? Did Jesus say CHURCHES? I don't think so. Now read the rest of that WORD OF GOD and see what heretics are in for. Maybe it's not the word of God?
http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul says it's a hoax. No one agrees with that not even me. But I'm having a little difficulty **faithing that it was God in that ball of fire. Realizing that hoax busters are wrong about the hoax then there's just one reasonable conclusion, it was Devil in that fire.
Fair warning: Devil speaks fluent Latin and no doubt spoke it to those writing the Bible. I see, Torah. So Devil speak Yiddish too. No big deal. Devil speaks all languages well and promises the big money to those who lead the multitudes to hell in whatever language suits. The big money is used by those multitude leaders to maintain their respectability, gain political power, take over governments. When they again get the power of state heretics will get it big time.
In case you're hard of hearing.
((((((((No Strange Gods))))))))
Ball of fire God, Devil is strange enough, used up all available strange.
Posted by: BGone | July 25, 2007 4:35 PM
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Dear Fr Reese
Thank you for your response to a very controversial issue in typical Jesuit style - open, intellectual and down to earth.
I wish to address my thoughts on the questions of the past two weeks to you, since you, as a Jesuit, are a soldier for Christ in the Catholic Church.
Re Mass in Latin:
Surely Jesus didn't speak Latin?
Considering Jesus spoke Aramaic, wouldn't Aramaic be the best language to choose, if going back to roots is the idea behind reverting to Latin Mass?
As a member of the Syro-Malabar Catholic church (Kerala, India),who has however attended Latin Catholic church for a long time, how could the Latin Mass apply to me? Until about the age of fifteen I attended Qurbana (Mass) in Malayalam. The concecration part would be read in Syriac (closest to Aramaic I'm told). I used to be quite impressed with the Syrian Rite liturgy during Easter when all the words said by Jesus was said in Syriac/Aramaic.
When I started to attend the Latin Catholic Mass, I noticed that I enjoyed listening to Latin Catholic Mass just as much in English and German. It was in Germany that I first got a taste of Latin during Mass. 'Lumen Christi' sounded impressive during the beginning of Easter service. I liked the pomp and ceremony of the High Mass during feast days such as Christmas and Easter, said by the Bishop in a cathedral with centuries of a prince bishop tradition (in the very German state that the Pope hails from).
Deep down in my heart however, it was when I stayed at the Christian Ashram of Dom Bede Griffiths on several ocassions since 1984 ( http://www.bedegriffiths.com ) that the Mass came really alive for me. It was the depth of Fr Bede's spirituality, his personal holiness, and my own deep desire to experience the presence of God through the Mass that made Mass special. Every word took on a deep meaning, and it was not the language it was said in that did it. How could I possibly reflect deeply on the words of the Mass if it was said in a language that meant nothing to me?
Surely God understands languages other than Latin?
Soja John Thaikattil
Sydney, Australia
Posted by: Soja John Thaikattil, Sydney, Australia | July 25, 2007 1:47 AM
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Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." John 14:1-4
For I know the plans that I have for you,' declares the LORD, 'plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:11-13
Posted by: Matthew Joseph | July 24, 2007 10:47 AM
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Anon,
The first reference more than likely is simply a rehash of the OT and NT without any critiques by contemporary NT scholars.
"Bible history; containing the most remarkable events of the Old and New Testaments. To which is added a compendium of church history. For the use of the Catholic schools in the United States.
by Richard Gilmour "
And the second reference is the Bible which definitely does not have any critiques by contemporary NT scholars.
"Saint Joseph Edition of the New American Bible: Translated From the Original Languages With Critical Use of All the Ancient Sources
About this title: The most popular medium-sized student edition available, the St. Joseph New American Bible is written in large, easy-to-read type, includes a Bible dictionary, self-explaining maps, footnotes, cross references, and a handy edge marking index. Ideal for study groups. "
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | July 23, 2007 6:48 PM
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This is where he gets some of the pictures and the one he calls the map of the universe.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 23, 2007 1:34 PM
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I think this might be the book you seek concerned.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 23, 2007 1:30 PM
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BGONE,
Without references, you are simply "whistling in the wind".
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | July 23, 2007 1:13 PM
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Concerned The Christian Now Liberated:
Where does referencing end? When you make your point?
Some of those pictures are from the Bible and classroom work studied by Catholic children. Father Reese studied them and he believes them, so he says.
Bill Hunt made pictures, that represents the words of the OT, the most important conversation of all time, Moses speaking to a ball of fire. I suppose you believe that was God and not Devil in the fire. I believe he says the story is a hoax, there was nothing in the ball of fire, the ball of fire is really the sun and rarely speaks to people. PAGANPLACE, a random Pagan from hereabouts faiths the sun is God and may well talk to it. Pat Robertson talks to God, implied at least the God of the Bible so he must talk to the sun too.
Did Moses go from riches, "raised in the Egyptian king's palace" to rags, tending someone else's sheep and then go back to riches after having a conversation with a ball of fire that claimed it was God? Father Reese, are you listening. Concerned sees no need to refute that, just demand more facts or something. Maybe you can authenticate that story for Concerned.
Just in case, http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul Are those pictures of God actually from the Catholic Bible? Dose the one Bill Hunt, or someone with him made fairly represent the words of the Bible? Did Moses "rush" to the burning bush realizing that sale of soul to Devil brings the big money to the seller only to find out it is necessary to lead the multitudes to hell as well as sell soul?
Is the interpretation of the Bible as the word of Devil not a fair one? Is it even safe to call Devil God? Will Lucifer ever raise an army large enough to conquer heaven? Who's side are the three great faiths on, God or Devil?
Concerned, the children have an expression, "The one that's hit the hardest is the one that yells the loudest."
Posted by: BGone | July 23, 2007 10:35 AM
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BGONE,
As far as anyone can tell, you could make your own pictures and post them. In what book did you find the pictures? Artists? Pictures by the way prove nothing. Where are references to the OT/NT exegetes who support your statements? Without those, your ramblings are hoaxes.
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | July 23, 2007 7:50 AM
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Tell me Father Reese, who will run the kingdom of God while we await the return of Jesus? Would that be the pope? Not if he can't be ecumenical.
Wasn't that speech a case of "trial balooning" to see how his authority over all faiths would be received. Guess he'll need to increase the size of the Swiss Guard and attack. That is if he intends to run the kingdom of God while we wait for Jesus. Don't you think that's more reasonable than "misunderstood professor" Faather?
What did Professor Ratzinger profess anyhow? Was any of is so? Not the parts that came from the Bible. The Bible is a literary hoax. Wouldn't you advise him to study that hoax buster web site.
Got it. Just thinking about http://www.hoax-buster.org makes his head hurt.
Posted by: BGone | July 22, 2007 9:34 PM
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Maybe Father Reese could deny those pictures. He is a Jesuit. Don't they know all about denying things?
Why not go for the humor? If angels can't be shot then why do they have shields? Can angels be shot Father? One of them supernatural beings named Allah enter the bodies of 19 people, 9-11-2001 and the two tallest building in the world along with 3,000+ people died. Shooting supernatural beings is more than a sport, it's a duty, like exorcising devils. Don't you agree Father?
Did God's side win the fight? http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul has the authenticated by RCC pictures of the battle between the good angels and the bad angels. What happen to the bad angels Father? Did the good angels put them into a sea of fire?
A little common sense. Whichever side wins declares it's leader to be God. What was the name of the leader of the good angels? Was that Michael of God?
Now when the churches have led enough people to hell Lucifer will try again. Is that why Hitler wanted so many German soldiers killed? Did he plan to continue the war in the next world and realized he'd need his army?
No tax accounting. Tax deductible. Tax exempt real estate. And we are all paying for it, mandatory tithes on all who live in the USA.
Where do I surrender my right to free speech? At my friendly neighborhood church, temple, synagogue and mosque? When the kingdom of God comes free speech will be a foggy memory like it was when the pope crowned the kings.
Posted by: BGone | July 22, 2007 9:16 PM
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Concerned The Christian Now Liberated:
Can you look at a picture? The web site is the references, hundreds of them including 3,000+ year old documents. Are pictures authenticated by the Roman Catholic Church good enough????
Posted by: BGone | July 22, 2007 8:53 PM
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BGONE,
You make many statements but I never see any references supporting them. And your website also seems to suffer from the same problem. Any reason for this????
Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | July 22, 2007 6:48 PM
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Anonymous:
The difference in hoax buster and opinions is it's not opinions. It's the reading of writings that clearly were included in the Bible and they are the CRITICAL stories. Did Moses lead 12 tribes of Israelites to the wilderness where they built a tabernacle in the name of a ball-of-fire God? Absolutely! Moses is no one's name but rather a 'descriptor' The real name of Moses is Amenophis IV. That's a Bible busting archaeological find. Once the individual Biblical figure is identified it then becomes an academic exercise to extract the rest of the story. Jesus is a surprising find where SHE was found. Did anyone ever check to make sure Jesus was really male?
Christianity, Judaism, Muhammadism will not vanish from the face of the earth. Anyone with a pinch of brain knows astrology is a pile of garbage yet it is the most popular item in the daily newspaper. What should happen, must happen is religion be put on the same plane as astrology, palm reading, etc. Simply stated as NOT ON MY NICKEL.
Astrologers pay taxes of all kinds, get no special treatment. At present only religions actually own real estate in the US, (Catholic church being head and shoulders above all others no doubt. Make pope feel a little cocky?) IF not checked religion will eventually own the whole country, Mormons being one contender for that title by letting private homes be deemed churches and thus RE tax exempt. Only non Mormons pay RE taxes in the great state of UTAH already?
Religions are terrorist organizations that threaten children with the fires of hell, the greatest terror any human has ever conceived. At present terrorism is public policy approved at all levels of government including licensing, saying which ones will be tax exempt and which ones are not allowed to own tax free real estate. NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!
Rethink your position. The Bible is a proved hoax by the finding of the original written material used to create the hoax. That's how literary hoaxes are usually constructed.
http://www.hoax-buster.org page 2 "proof" and see where the CRITICAL stories of the Bible came from. The Bible is NOT Jewish history as advertised but it is based upon a real history.
Are you worried about Biblical archaeologists becoming unemployed? They already are finding nothing someone didn't recently create. Not a trace of Jesus has ever been found until hoax buster. Now we know all about that 'son of God' a woman no less.
Posted by: BGone | July 22, 2007 6:44 PM
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BGone,
what so special about hoaxbusters looks like another form of pedling your point of veiw. When I search the web it is on a certain subject then I look through all the sites on that subject see if they are all on the same page then I go to the source itself and translate for myself. And so I don't peddle anysites but to me it just sounds like the little kid who never gets heard screaming here I am! What facts do you bring for a scattering of reported documents. If you don't belive what man wrote about God then why would you even remotly use a documment from the government you trust the writers of lies. For you info type in the word Nag Hammadi texts. You possibilities are endless. Try picking one subject and sticking to it jack of all trades master of none. Who is the fool, the one he gets to labor for him or the laborer who did the work?
Posted by: Anonymous | July 22, 2007 5:54 PM
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"LIES that cause people to believe are moral." Example, shroud of Turin, a proved hoax. Wanna hear more?
Posted by: BGone | July 22, 2007 12:02 PM
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Anonymous:
You're not refuting the evidence only referencing abstractions, "You take what hypocrites have handed down through centuries" needs some examples. I don't know what hypocrites have handed down. Does anyone else?
http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul has no equal or close even on the web that I'm aware of. Could you supply some URLs? You could offer some wisdom to counter the claim of that site. What is your wisdom? God is a ball of fire? Wise?
Am I allowed to ask if saying God is a ball of fire violates the "icon" clause in the first commandment? How about the Eucharist? Is it an "image" of Jesus Who is "of one being with the Father" and therefore an image of the Father? Doesn't that violate the first commandment. What do you faith?
BTW, is that Lucifer tale for real? Is Lucifer using religion to lead people to hell so he can recruit soldiers for his next attack on heaven? You do agree that the big money goes to those who lead the multitudes? Doesn't that beg the question, where are they leading the multitudes? You don't expect either Lucifer of His ministers to be truthful do you? Have you noticed that "lied that cause people to believe are moral"? Was that really God Moses made the deal with?
Good luck explaining all that faith to the REAL God. Beneficiary of the crucifixion of God's only son should be kept secret. Don't let God find out you were in on it. Just my opinion but don't drag me in with you.
Posted by: BGone | July 22, 2007 11:56 AM
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BGONE
You are the only one trying to force your veiw and your peddling of a web site, do you even undertstand anything you read from a book or just off of one of millions of web sites who claim to have the keys. You take what hypocrites have handed down through centuries and think thats the way it is supposed to be. What ball of fire do you refer to because baptism comes from water and the water overpowers the fire each time. Just like the rapture that is made from mans word not the word of God. Think about it bgone if all churches where true, evil would not have entered them God is in us every living and breathing thing, and as far as breaking bread thats where the twisted tongue comes in do this in rememberance of me is not worship of Idoltary but worshiping a statue of christ or any other is. Honoring and worship is where people commit to error. Try promoting God not That of man at your bible hoaxbusters. The Truth only hurts when you don't understand it.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 22, 2007 11:20 AM
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Life is funny everything that seem’s to be really isn't. All my Life I thought that the people in our lives were here to help us and in turn you do likewise. Yes, we might start out with good intentions, but then the evil things in life take a hold, because this is what we allow him to do, I speak of jealousy, greed, vanity, guile , deceit, lies, and worst of them all HATE. When I say he, I do not mean our Father, Christ, I mean his archenemy, which is ours also. The one who from our creation has set demise of our fall, thinking his end will never come. Never say Never. Let's just say for my age I have seen and been a lot of places and situation's that only make you stronger and wiser in life and faith.
The Word from the beginning was not the word we where supposed to receive, instead we received a false word mixed in with the Father's word. For Instance for all you religious fanatics, preacher's, reverend’s and evangelist of religion that is all you are is religious for man created religion's, to separate the word. I thought the Father hated religion any church, synagogue, mosque or temple is not honor to the Father for he created the materials that we use, he doesn't want brick, metal or wood offered back to him he want's love, kindness, selflessness, patience, and most of all Peace not to one but all. Also remember he did not say his way is the easy, he said his yoke would be light and because of the evil one, the Father's way is not the easy way. Remember, He is everyday, everywhere. Even at our miserable jobs if you honor him while you labor, he will honor you back, by helping you with your labor, and when you are finished leave the labor at work and continue with The Father at home. When I say continue, I don't mean hours of meaningless prayer's that has been handed down by hypocrites, or wasteful traditions of dedication. Go back home instead and show compassion to your confused youth because you were ounce their age, Love your spouse or companion and give them kindness and understanding about there day, also most of all show Peace to your neighbor. Remember the Father said “Knock and I shall open the door, ask and it may be granted to you." I knocked and I received the knowledge I finally asked for. I say finally because we sometime ask for the wrong things, and these are word's to remember "The Father only gives us what we need, not what we want". The reason I am sharing these words with you, is not to boast, or to preach but to share with those the directions to get back on path, and to help those in the dark come to know the Light. “How can you know the Light, if you have not walked in the dark?" Just know GOD has released the knowledge once again and that scares a lot of the powers that be. Just remember to read with an open mind but also look out for deception, see what is true, and when you listen, listen as child during a bed time story but also be aware of the evil words that slip through. "Be as wise as the serpent but as gentle as a Dove". This goes true in everyday life, because don't forget wherever the Father is so is the fallen one, trying to get you back into the dark. Like I said before I am no better than any man or women who has sinned but now I can decipher Good and evil not right or wrong, Good or bad because that means evil can be good which it can not. When a child murders another or an animal he is not a bad child he is an evil child and his ways need to be changed or he will be an evil adult. Remember evil asks of you one thing and takes another. Good or God asks of nothing for doing good and in return He rewards you in multiples. The time is coming when the beast will unmask him or herself, when and where we do not know and anyone who say's other wise is not of the truth. "The head of prophesy was cut off with John the Baptist." beware of the false prophets’! They are everywhere, but we have come to except them in everyday life with no help from our religions because evil has entered them from there establishment. Those of us who truly believe with all our heart, body and soul we are going to encounter a multitude of evil against us, but if we are to follow the Father, we are to pick up our cross and follow him into battle. Remember freedom is never really free, not until the evil one is banished and Peace remains with us forever. Also, those who think they preach the word and cast judgment the judgment you cast in His Name will come back to Judge you two fold now and at judgment time. It is not our place to judge, but to spread his message with all our heart because only with love come's Peace. Leave judgment to the one whose it is to judge. But, also remember we are only men or women and we stumble when we fall we ask for forgiveness from the One we fell against as He forgives we must do likewise. I too still have trouble with this, I am only a man but with GOD all things are possible, that's why I say we must learn from our troubles, grow from them and share them with others so they don't fall too. But we have a problem with forcing our way's or point of view, just remember GOD is of free will and anything forced Is not his way. To those religious fanatics who preach his Lovely word's of Peace and produce nothing but bad fruit, hate, murder, pedophile, molestation, and deceit the same to you will these plagues and torments, torment you until it is time. "Remember it is not that which we put into our mouths that defiles us, but that which comes out." This means be careful with the words you chose because the evil one wait's to grab your tongue, like we do with our pets. I have a Mastiff, so his tongue is gigantic and easy to grab like mine used to be. “Also you can not put new wine into old skins else it burst’s.” For those who think they know what this mean’s, it means you can not mix the old law with the new laws, plan and simple so if you want to preach the Fathers New laws. The words I read and repeat I do not twist for my own way , I read and repeat exactly as written I mention this for all those who are wiser in knowledge does not always mean they preach the truth to those who are not, Then same to those will they become dumb, deaf and blind as the one’s they lead astray! Before I leave I would like to share with you something that help’s me make it through, when the world feels like it is against you. One, remember it is not the Father who is punishing you, it is the other guy somewhere you stepped out of the light, you just have to ask him to forgive you, and the Light will shine again, no that doesn't mean confessional's or priest's. If you have a crowed house go in the bathroom or closet and confess He is everywhere, confess in the morning on your drive to work. Two, a simple Hail Mary, Amen, or even THANK YOU, does wonder's, The Father is simple he is not complex, the evil one just makes it complex, long meaningless prayer's just Irritates and upset Him, because they are prayers from the hard hearted handed down and we still sing in sorrow when we should rejoice because he gave all of us a chance for redemption and gave us all the ability to spread the joy, but again be careful of the one's with wicked hearts, because misery loves company and happiness is solitary. Think about that one?. I can be happy when everyone else is miserable, just look up to the sky smile and say thank you, He will know, then you too will be happy again, no matter whether it is rain or shine He can make you giggle as you did when you where a child, if you just open up your heart. Three, just be kind even if it is burning you up inside because I am sure, sometime in the past you pissed allot of people off as I know I have done, this to is hard and if you stumble just ask for a hand and he will reach out His Hand. With this all Good things are Possible with God. And beware around every corner darkness waits to trap you. Before you knock make sure your faith is true, that doesn’t mean you have to know everything just that you are ready to repent to God not man. When you knock ask to be able to See also, but take heed, at first it might seem scary because we fear what we don't know but ounce you grasp what you truly see, hold on tight because the evil one will try to scare the ever living life out of you, just close your eye's look up at the sky and open your eye's and say thank you and then your Faith will be great again. Peace unto those who read and understand and God Bless you on your journey and battle.
It may sound like a bunch of B.S. but if you are true at heart and faith when you knock ask for all the knowledge, because your faith shall prove you. God Bless. Matthew
Posted by: Matthew Joseph | July 22, 2007 10:26 AM
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Remember, only the Italian genius, which includes things from Dante and Leonarda to the Mafia, could have invented an institution as ridiciulous as the Vatican and the Catholic Church.
Posted by: candide | July 22, 2007 7:44 AM
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i don't know which is more insulting, herr ratzinger's repeated insinuations that those who choose not to submit to his authority are "defective" and damned, or reese's attempt at obfuscation by assuring us that the pope is some kind of german professor whose thought processes are beyond understanding by mere mortals. einstein, he ain't. a pig headed, narrow-minded, religious bigot, he most assuredly is.
Posted by: jim filyaw | July 22, 2007 12:39 AM
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Anonymous:
"The Blessed Virgin Mary is the human temple" is consistent with "Women are dirt where men plant people." That's the ancient biology that was still a scientific fact at the council of Nice.
Let's not argue that the Father of Jesus was not of the same specie as Jesus. Instead let's just wonder why the mother of Jesus is a different one. A priest name Arius did and got whacked for it by Constantine who clearly agreed with him. That's how criminals work. It's not truth that counts.
Every time you claim a piece of bread is God you are violating the first commandment. A piece of bread is a "carven image." Actually, is it not a violation of the first commandment to give any distinguishing characteristic to God at all, ball of fire for instance?
Pharaoh was a son of God too you know. And His mother was not a God while His Father was God, just like the mother and Father of Jesus, (did you notice how polite I am always capitalizing pronouns that refer to God?). They subscribed to the theory, "women are dirt where men plant people."
The ancient Egyptians were threatened with hell too, just like you, not me. And they, like us both were told that one cannot work too hard. Since money hadn't been invented God extracted work from His subjects in exchange for their salvation. "The first shall be last, and the last shall be first" is one of their favorite expressions, kinda like, "give us this day our daily bread." The first one to stop working went to hell for sure and there was no guarantee that anyone, no matter how hard or long they worked would be allowed into the next "kingdom of God" Pharaoh.
The Bible is barfed on Egyptian history claimed to be Jewish. Jews have suffered enough. Terminate it. The Bible is a proved hoax.
Posted by: BGone | July 21, 2007 7:04 PM
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I´ll argue one step further on the basis for asserting the Catholic Church is the 1 church of Christ, and of which all other Christians are a part of, even though they may not yet fully recognize it.
The Blessed Virgin Mary is the human temple on which Jesus was divinely conceived. In a manner similar to how God transforms the bread and wine into Jesus' body and blood, God transformed the the Blessed Mother's genetic matter into the human form of Jesus, the Christ, the son of the living God.
Just as we experience the presence of Christ in the Eucharist, we experience the Holy Spirit when we address the Blessed Mother, in which the latter dwells. So there are 2 confirmations, the Eucharistic presence of Jesus, and thereby the living trinity; and the presence of the Holy Spirit, and thereby the living trinity, in the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Yet, there are Christians who do not yet recognize that she is critical in God's salvation plan through Jesus Christ. The Blessed Mother is the first temple of the New Alliance of the living God with humanity. At least, that is how I have come to see it after much reflection. My reflections are confirmed by the not precisely identical experiences of the Holy Spirit when I address Blessed Virgin Mary or partaking of the Eucharist.
Are these the only possible ways to experience the Holy Spirit. No. Non-catholic Christians may also experience Him. Other religious traditions may too. Yet in the Eucharist, we have God himself, unmediated.
Never mind atheists, not few seem to have a spiritual clue, yet. Hopefully, one day many will too. For it is written: "The first shall be last, and the last shall be the first."
Posted by: Anonymous | July 21, 2007 6:22 PM
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Well Matthew, give this a little thought. Where would Christianity, Catholic, Protestant, any flavor be without the Bible? Can you give me anything of substance outside the Bible that says the pope is more than the head of a criminal organization that takes money, property - real and otherwise and gives nothing in return.
The Bible is the foundation. Without it there is no way to substantiate any claim. I'm afraid it's a proved hoax. Not just one little incidental thing but the claim of communication with God.
The question is: was that really God in the ball of fire? Now consider the other possibility, the being in the fire was Devil and the most dastardly one of them all, Lucifer who attempted to take over heaven, give God the boot.
That explains why devils are all about tempting people to sin and thus get them into hell. Lucifer plans another attack on heaven and needs troops. Onward Christian soldiers marching off to attack heaven planning to throw God out.
God is really powerful. Lucifer has been working to build His army for at least 2,000 years under the cloak of faith yet is still too weak to attack Michael and those Arc angels. That's in spite of the three great faiths, moral majority, Christian coalition, Protestant Reformation, simply thousands of moves to inspire faith in Him. Faith that his next attack will be successful.
Can you show, (prove is too strong) that God is not behind http://www.hoax-buster.org What evidence do you have, Bible allowed to say that was not Lucifer in the ball of fire.
Whatever IT was in that ball of fire was the father of Jesus according to everything I've ever read or heard on that subject. So IT being God is critically important. Don't you agree?
Not to worry. When enough people get to hell so that Lucifer can attack God and win then Lucifer will declare Himself to be God. Make that retroactive and you got it. Presently, all worship is Devil worship but when Devil becomes God then it will be God worship.
Don't worry about God winning. Hardly anyone believes in God. Just the ones with the smarts to say that Devil and not God lives in fire. All you need is for Lucifer to win. Maybe a coalition of the willing will turn the trick. Ecumenical anyone? Devil delivers the goodies here and now to those who lead the multitudes to Him.
Good luck convincing God it's OK to call Devil God. That part about how you were in on the crucifixion, accessory after the fact, saved, may be a little difficult for God to understand. So study hard and practice your speech before a mirror.
BGone
Posted by: BGone | July 21, 2007 6:15 PM
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BGone,
If you spent half the trouble of taking the the word of one web site when there are literally thousands of sites you can research on your own. First for everybody the Bible is but a fraction of history written the bible we know is put together by an Emporer. The Torah is not the same as the bible but that too only has a fraction of history told. Second the eucharist does not belong to the church, the Father said" this is my body do this in rememberance of me. satan or lucifer or what ever you want to call him, your right he is not afraid of the church, but he is of Christ. The evil one knows about the churches why do think he can enter them. Ask all those satanist how they like the lie of there dead leader. Christ did not ask anything of man except to love one another and honor one God his Father. The rest of the mumbo jumbo as you say is from man. once we determine the two then the real truth will show itself. The one thing the devil tries to prove is he does not exist, so if he doesnt exist neither does God. If you really want to be logical explain to me what came first the chicken or the egg? God Bless and Peace always.Matthew
Posted by: Matthew Joseph | July 21, 2007 3:44 PM
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RE: An Unbroken History
The Church Invisible goes back to Christ, but most of the Protestant churches have as much claim to that distinction as the Catholic church, and certainly the Orthodox churches can claim this.
Neither Luther nor the Orthodox churches left the Catholic church. They were kicked out. When they left they took with them a substantial part of the people, leadership and assets of the church. They continued on with the essential elements of the church, but stripped of the traditions of men (at least in their view).
You can't argue legitimacy based on who got to keep the key to the executive washroom. Even doctrine is but a proxy to determine who follows in the steps of the Apostles. The legitimate successors to the Apostles are those whom the Holy Spirit has anointed as leaders of the church.
If one goes by fruit of the Holy Spirit evident in the life of the church I suggest that the Catholic Church's claim as being the only legitimate church is without support. Too many Popes had illegitimate children, and the spiritual children of those Popes make the tabloids on a daily basis.
Modern-day Catholics rightfully study the church fathers, but how many of those same church fathers would recognize the current church? The Catholic Church's theology and it's practices are far from the theology and practices of the church fathers.
I am sympathetic to the Catholic Church and I believe some of its doctrine over that of Protestant doctrine, but as long as it follows the traditions of men over the Word of God I will find my spiritual guidance elsewhere.
Posted by: homesower | July 21, 2007 3:05 PM
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The holy father is Lucifer's number one representative here on earth. Hell is a confused mess so small wonder Benedict is presiding over a confused mess preparing the faithful for entry into the kingdom of the being that lives in fire.
That being, the one in the ball of fire that Moses made the deal with is God. You had better believe it else hell for you. That's how the sheep are herded into the slaughter house, threats of being hurt, hit with a stick if they don't do as the shepherd directs.
Good luck all. Keep the faith. Hell ain't half full. There's lots of room for you. Lucifer need you for his army to attack heaven again. He almost won last time.
You do believe in God don't you? How about Devil?
Posted by: BGone | July 21, 2007 11:40 AM
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Anonymous:
Celebrating the Eucharist is celebrating what? Jesus is/was the son of the being in the ball of fire Moses made the deal with?
http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul Calling Devil God does not make Devil God but does make Devil happy. Celebrating the Eucharist surely makes Devil happy. Think how bad things could get when if is unhappy.
Lucifer is one happy Devil no doubt about it. But his goal of taking over heaven is yet to be met. Only when there are enough people in hell to break out and again attack the kingdom of God can He hope to get out of hell Himself.
When Lucifer's gang finally manages to take over heaven Lucifer will declare himself to be God. He's as close to being God as possible right now with the three great faiths singing His praises, declaring His glory. Lucifer should be one happy Devil but then there is the small matter of being set on fire and continuing to burn for all eternity.
Posted by: BGone | July 21, 2007 11:28 AM
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Anonimo sin nombre,
I haven't yet caught anyone pretending to be me (although I'm not always paying attention) but you may have caught me expressing some muddled thinking. I do think Benedict's statement is a challenge to Catholic Americans like me who are in the habit of making up our own minds about matters about which the Vatican has been all too clear.
I haven't weighed in on this question because I feel it is part of last week's question on the Tridentine Mass, which I ran on about at some length. I appreciate Fr. Reese's take on the Pope's use of language. It is one of the things that frustrates me about this site: We all use language a little differently, and we run into frequent semantic misunderstandings. I'm in a different time zone than most of you (del oeste) so I rarely have a chance to make instant clarifications as I would in a face-to-face conversations.
By the way, I've been wanting to ask Fr. Reese about the fact that these statements came not directly from the Pope, but from Fr. Levada's "five answers," which presumably whould have been designed to clarify Benedict XVI's scholarly language...
Posted by: Viejita del oeste | July 21, 2007 12:31 AM
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Buddhism auto-erotic!
I believe John Paul called Buddhism a negative religion. This caused a minor flap in the Buddhist community, but upon reflection there really is no other way for a believing member of the Abrahamic tradition to view Buddhism. As for professor Ratzinger I believe what he said was that Buddhism was a form of mental masturbation. Since it was assumed by the Buddhist community that this was a subject that he knew more about than they did, it recieved little or no reaction.
Posted by: hlmorin | July 21, 2007 12:00 AM
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DO you believe you can only celebrate the Eucharist in church? If there is know to offer it and you believe your Faith is pure then you give and celebrate Holy Communion. If you pray before dinner you are breaking bread with the Father HE is there with you. If you are more a traditionalist then I can tell you where to get the same Eucharist the your churches use. Also by pure I mean admit your sins to the Father and you will do everything in your will to walk right in His eyes not mans eyes. Also if you would like the prayer the churches use I can get them to you or go online the knowledge is out there a good writing from around the end of 1st century begining 2nd century called Didache very good instruction of the Lord Pre Romen rule, baptism communion etc. Also was included in the new testament but then taken out the same with The Letter of Barnabas read these and then ask why. What God gives freely so to shall you. Gid Bless and Peace.Matthew
Posted by: Anonymous | July 20, 2007 9:48 PM
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Anonymous - I suggest you bite the bullet and get a handle - not a hispanic one, if you don't like that. Though someone might steal it, it's rare here, and the "real" owner invariably comes on to reclaim their name.
In contrast, Anonyi are just perpetually confusing.
PS, seems to me if you were Hispanic, you'd know that Viejita del Oeste is a female name.
Posted by: E favorite | July 20, 2007 9:43 PM
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Jose don't even worry about it. The truth is always known. Also True christians don't worry about race color or creed God made us all different for his amusement in a good way if we all looked the same it would be boring. When you write leave it blank and sign it when your done in a way where you know if they changed your words,like a signature water mark. also you pretty much hit the nail on the head, people are ignorant and will do such things. Don't sweat the small stuff. When someone uses someone else word's is because they can not think of it by themselves and that leads to jealousy.Peace and God bless.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 20, 2007 9:31 PM
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Sorry for the erroneous duplication. The first point should read:
1. Christ only founded 1 Church, so there is only 1.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 20, 2007 9:28 PM
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I think Benedict was trying to say this:
1. Christ only founded 1 Church, so there is only
2. Yet we know Christ is in the Catholic church because we experience Him in the Eucharistic presence.
3. Therefore, the Catholic church is the one, and others are separated parts of it.
4. This is confirmed by the Catholic Church's fidelity to the apostolic succesion stemming from Peter, upon whom, Christ founded his 1 church.
Makes perfect sense to me. When, apalled by something or another, and I have seriously considered leaving, it is the Eucharist that pulls me back. I cannot turn my back on the Eucharist for He is there.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 20, 2007 9:24 PM
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I think Benedict was trying to say this:
1. Christ only founded 1 Church, so there is only 1.
2. Yet we know Christ is in the Catholic church because we experience Him in the Eucharistic presence.
3. Therefore, the Catholic church is the one, and others are separated parts of it.
4. This is confirmed by the Catholic Church's fidelity to the apostolic succesion stemming from Peter, upon whom, Christ founded his 1 church.
Makes perfect sense to me. When, apalled by something or another, and I have seriously considered leaving, it is the Eucharist that pulls me back. I cannot turn my back on the Eucharist for He is there.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 20, 2007 9:24 PM
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Jose -- I'm not the anonymous of who asked why he or she wanted to remain anonymous. Yet I will explain why at least I remain anonymous.
Some time back I used to publish my name, a hispanic name. Then I discovered that others were using it to say exactly the opposite of what I would say. Subsequently, when I protested, another Catholic reported that appropriating someone else´s name is a way used to discredit their views, by writing something they would not say as if it were them saying it.
In some posts Viejita del Oeste sounds like someone else for he/she said He/she chose being an American over the Catholic Church. You think he/she would have said that? I think not.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 20, 2007 9:16 PM
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Those who know the Law will be Judged according to the Law those who don't will be judged according to their deeds.That is why I say look and you find. But to change what is true to benifit one's own opinoin so what they do is right. Hell is what you do in your life will be your hell. If you listend to the Real Word He Was telling us not to Fear death. There is more to our life than right now, we fear what we can not see or feel. Do you think God is so terrible, for instance Our Fellow Marines that when they pass he condemns them as murderers, I say not He knows because of man's heart that there will always be wars, If you accted according to your duties then what Fear need you have, none. Do you Think the Father will Judge according to hypocrites, just say they will know what hell is when they are called. If God was not of Free will and a dictator then I would agree with your words. But I am afraid I have been through to many situations and experiances to Just write off with coincedance. I is easy to point out the faults in others, but it is very difficult to point out and fix our own faults. To fix a problem do you go down the same path that made it broken? The only limits The Father has are the limits set by mankind.Semper Fidelus.God Bless and Peace.Matthew
Posted by: Anonymous | July 20, 2007 9:08 PM
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I believe that is correct, so it would seem to be only all or nothing decisions that would be coherent under such a premise -- either faith (via tradition and authority of living and continuous church) or no faith. yes, or no.
Posted by: george | July 20, 2007 7:03 PM
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was it not St. Augustine who said "if it was not for the authority of the Catholic Church, I would not believe"...? just a thought.
Posted by: dr.dr. | July 20, 2007 7:00 PM
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was it not St. Augustine who said "if it was not for the authority of the Catholic Church, I would not believe"...? just a thought.
Posted by: docterdocter | July 20, 2007 6:59 PM
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WHAT? You're not suggesting there is no hell in the first place? Now when everyone gets that chance to enter into the kingdom of God and have all the goodies what happens to the ones that don't even believe in God, just as an example of sinners?
I didn't bother looking up your passage and don't have Revelation on quick recall. Revelation is a calculated terror threat all by itself, multi-head monsters devouring sinners, that sort of thing. Then there's some things, more than one that Bill Hunt noticed, http://www.hoax-buster.org
Where else is the term "second death" documented? How about a shaft passing through the earth down to the abyss? Are stars living creatures with the intelligence to take keys and open locks? Is the sun a star? Is the sun also going to fall from the sky? I can't think of more right now and I'm sure he don't know them all. Oh yeah. Is death a thing that can be destroyed "in a sea of fire" along with sinners and the netherworld where the dead await the return of Jesus?
The concept of more life after this life is natural and normal, an "instinct" of our minds. The very first act of terror on earth was to threaten people by saying there was a demon on the nebol bridge and only a Christ, savior can get one past it and into the next life. Terrorism is now a criminal activity by law. Was it not a criminal activity to threaten people with that demon way back when? What did the person that did it have in mind? Why?
Today ministries rake in the gold by continuing to make that threat, "unless you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior you will be shut out of heaven" and it goes without saying if they don't actually say it, cast BODY and SOUL into hell.
Hell is a gold mine.
The first person to threaten people with hell was a king or became one. Heaven is a kingdom, his kingdom. Pharaoh is the oldest one of these of record. The Bible is the story of a woman who would be Pharaoh, a little "Trouble in Paradise" in ancient Egypt. "Amen the faithful and true witness" I'm willing to wager.
Some of us have the good sense to check out things like the hoax buster claims. They check out at least 90%, all I can do with my limited time and resources. 90% is a B at Woodstock Theological Center no doubt. That's a passing grade to say the least. The Bible is a hoax and the work of criminals, not sweetheart nice people.
The mafia guys wear fancy clothes, live in mansions, and ride in limos. So does the pope. The Bible is his license to steal.
Posted by: BGone | July 20, 2007 6:08 PM
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If you follow the ways of man you are doomed if you follow the Word of the Lord you can not go wrong, what alot people do not realize is there is whole lot more writings of christ from his apostles then what is in the new testament that is just a fraction. Those who want to know the Truth seek it and those who want to criticize just take the word of other Fools. The Apostles all conferred with each other and gave respect as the Lord gave each of them. James was chosen to settle disputs between the rest. If you follow the ways of Christ then call yourself a Christian,If you follow the word of man, then you choose what religion you want to be called, and keep convincing yourself that lies are right, when you half to convince yourself to believe others then ask yourself if their right. God Bless and Peace.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 20, 2007 5:51 PM
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Hello All:
Mr. Reese's article is trying to sugar coat Ratzinger, whatever that egotist given name is, stupidities. The explanation that this clown does not really meant other Christians cannot partake in the so called "mystery of salvation" or crock is at best condescending and at worst the scad is lying and he means that no salvation without his say so. I always thought the one unchangeable charcateistic of Pious is bigotry. This proves it again. What the hell is this he is lecturing us if we dont know the meaning of the words in the way he uses, it is our loss. This arrogant narcissist, should first learn some humility and learn the meanings of the words he hurls around. This ultimate snake oil salesman thinks himself to be smart, what is the earmark of smartness. Did this guy achieve and great thing in the field of arts, sports or sciences? This good for nothing parasite on the society must shut hide mouth, and try to clean up the atrocities committed by is minions, called priests. he is nothing but another ayatollah, jerry falwell, etc etc. As Robert DeNiro character often repeats himself in "Midnight Run" ask him to "shut the $&@* up."
Posted by: Secular | July 20, 2007 5:42 PM
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Each branch of Christianity likes to claim all the others are deviant. But the facts are different. The only authentic Christians are those who were led by Jesus' brother James of Jerusalem. These people knew Jesus best. They were marginalized by the Hellenistic church and eventually died out, influencing especially Islam as they did so. So Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Mormon -- these are all anti-Jewish, anti-Jesus groups who never accepted the original Christians. In other words -- they are all a hoax and a fraud.
Posted by: candide | July 20, 2007 5:30 PM
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No, Bgone...all I mentioned above is not biblically backed. The bible is not the hoax. Constantine, Nicene council, man in general generates the hoaxes.
Scripture tells that the whole world is deceived by the adversary. With all the religious confusion perpetrated by man, that scripture rings very true.
By the way, Constantine did not have all of scripture done away with that denounces his motives and what he, et al. has done.
Nope, no terror with regard to what God will be doing for mankind once our time alloted is completed. He will intervene and give all of mankind a chance to practice abundant living in the Kingdom of God. The book tells all about it. No death, no tears...sounds like the antithesis of terror to me.
Posted by: WHAT? | July 20, 2007 5:07 PM
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WHAT? The Bible is a hoax? But of course, the Bible is the product of the council of Nice. So is trinity God and the first pope, Constantine who appointed all the clergy and sat at the top of the MONEY pyramid, the product of tithes. He cut taxes as promised to those who conspired with him to conquer the entire empire of which he only ruled 1/4th before Jesus. But his income actually increased through tithing.
In the end, Constantine sold out the business, western half to the highest bidder creating what we know today as the Vatican.
Constantine is the actual author of the Bible approving what would be included and what would be burned and denied ever existed. Of course the included was edited to suit him, (editing still in progress, hard man to make happy I guess).
I'll bet thinking about http://www.hoax-buster.org makes the pope's head hurt but then he doesn't seem to be all that astute. How about you, Fr Reese? What does knowing the foundation of hell itself is a hoax do for you? Where will you be if you can't threaten the children with hell?
Knowing hell is a hoax should make the whole world very happy. Why doesn't it? Maybe all that Jesus love is really our love of terrorizing each other? Try not being terrorized. It's more fun, peace of mind than I can describe. And it's FREE.
Ou Ee Uh Ah Ah bing bang wallah wallah bing bang. Witch doctoring is the oldest profession predating prostitution by thousands of years.
Posted by: BGone | July 20, 2007 4:09 PM
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Anne Line,
In response to your question, I looked around and found the following article on the Pope's statement on "Buddhist autoeroticism" on a site called "China Matters."
*****************************
Wednesday, September 20, 2006
Pope Benedict and the Buddhism/Masturbation Controversy
Pope Benedict’s recent scuffle with Islam, including his non-apology—characterized by Middle East observer Abu Aardvark as “that time-honored classic ‘I'm sorry that you got angry when I called you fat’” dodge--- has highlighted his confrontational stance toward other faiths.
A column by Madeleine Bunting in The Guardian makes a case for his hostility toward Judaism and Buddhism as well.
In the process, Bunting retails the notorious statement made by Benedict while he was still Cardinal Ratzinger, purportedly equating Buddhism with masturbation.
Buddhist Channel reported that the full quote, delivered in an interview with L’Expresse in 1997, went like this:
"If Buddhism is attractive, it's only because it suggests that by belonging to it you can touch the infinite, and you can have joy without concrete religious obligations,'' Ratzinger said. ``It's spiritually self-indulgent eroticism.''
Other outlets cut Cardinal Ratzinger some slack, opining that “auto-erotisme”, the term used in the original article, could more accurately translated at “self-love” or “narcissism”.
Actually, auto-eroticism is an English-language term coined by the sexologist Havelock Ellis to describe mental or physical sexual activity not directed toward a sexual partner. It was later picked up by Freud.
Cardinal Ratzinger knows his Freud. He considers Freud an originator of the secular spirit he detests, and entitled one of his major pronouncements on the decadence of Europe “Europe and its Discontents”—a play on Freud’s Civilization and its Discontents.
In this case, I assume Cardinal Ratzinger employed auto-eroticism as a term of art, using a modern term for the sinful, non-reproductive sexuality abhorred by the church to condemn a kind of shallow spiritual gratification that he considers futile, degenerate, and dangerous to the soul.
So, although the Pope was not referring to Buddhists as masturbators, they can find little consolation in the awareness that what he really meant is that he was dismissing their spiritual exercises as pathetic and contemptible.
In any event, Benedict’s hostility toward non-Catholic faiths is a matter of public record.
Religions that have felt the lash of his disapproval include Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, and Anglicanism.
In 2000, the National Catholic Reporter published a list of Cardinal Ratzinger’s greatest hits, including a money quote from the same L’Expresse interview:
"In the 1950s someone said that the undoing of the Catholic church in the 20th century wouldn't come from Marxism but from Buddhism. They were right."
Reportedly, at the time Cardinal Ratzinger was incensed that there were allegedly more Frenchmen studying to be Buddhist monks than Benedictine monks.
As the Catholic Church’s top doctrine cop—running the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, a.k.a. the Inquisition--he also ordered a German Benedictine monk, Willigis Jager, a.k.a Zen master Ko-un Roshi, to cease and desist from all public statements and activities promoting dialogue between Catholics and Buddhists.
Posted by: Norrie Hoyt | July 20, 2007 3:36 PM
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Anonymous,
My point exactly. What scripture, what authority gave a Roman emporer the right to make a church official? It was a church he and other men designed. Not of divine origin.
The wicked one, as you state, certainly did lead the church off the right path. It began with the Nicene council.
I know catholics arent encouraged to read their bibles, but Rev 12:9 is there for a fundamental reason.
Posted by: WHAT? | July 20, 2007 3:36 PM
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Yes JON, but he, the pope should shut up. The Catholic church is a terrorist organization. You don't see bin-Laden giving speeches do you?
I get it. You don't understand terrorism, think that's the only way to control people, make them behave themselves, threaten them with the greatest terror ever conceived, hell. Name a greater terror than hell.
The pope is the leader of the world's largest terrorist organization but the Muhammad gang is coming up fast.
Everybody's doin' it doin' it doin' it. Everybody's threatening everyone else with hell. Planet earth is filled with terror and his holiness is heir to the terrorist king Constantine's throne. Feeding sinners to the lions was terrifying enough until Constantine heard about hell. Then he saw the big PX in the sky.
The big PX in the sky is where dead Marines buy their pogi bait.
Posted by: BGone | July 20, 2007 3:21 PM
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Hrm, you know, I gotta call nonsense on this one. If the Pope doesn't know what message he's sending with the inflammatory language he uses when referring to others, then he's either not so smart as it's claimed he is, or he knows what he's doing trying to get the faithful to take a harder line against minorities, then having others come in later trying to claim that that's not what he meant at all.
He's supposed to be the obeyed supreme divine messenger, he ought to get the message straight.
He should know that when he calls Buddhists 'autoerotic,' what people learn that means in Catholic school is 'they masturbate,'
He should know that when he calls gay people 'objectively disordered' that that means he claims they're indisputably-messed-up or mentally ill.
He should know that when he calls Pagans Satanic that he's, umm. Calling us Satanic.
Seriously, here.
What message could he *think* he's sending to the flock?
Posted by: Paganplace | July 20, 2007 3:11 PM
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Just a note for unbroken history, the catholic church you refer to is start from the 4th century in 325 when constantine was Emporer he then made the catholic church we know today official, peters church or spirit was not what we know, also the off shoots are started by the same saints that rome canonized. They left the church and if you know your history Peter never claimed to be infallible, put Paul sure seem to think he was, there are plenty of things to distract us from the Word. That is what the wicked one does, tries to lead you off the Right Path. God Bless.
Ps ask the Pope about St. Benedict and his Benedictian monks?
Posted by: Anonymous | July 20, 2007 3:07 PM
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>>The Greek roots of the term "Catholic" mean "according to (kata-) the whole (holos)," or more colloquially, "universal." Not as you claim friend.
Yes, universal deception. Comapre catholocism to the early church..to what Jesus taught to follow...to what the apostles were instructed to observe and keep. Remarkable differences with regard to what man has introduced as 'right' A 'vicar' of Christ, claiming to be His representative on earth, is pure heresy. (Tell me where the ok came from for this?)
Posted by: WHAT? | July 20, 2007 2:53 PM
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>> The Catholic Church has roots back to it's founder Jesus Christ.
Unbelieveable. Sorry, Jesus would not have gone along with the changes that Constantine, et al brought in. He does not look down well on His name being plastered on the winter solstice observance. Read the book. It is a great deception that the bible speaks of. It was the beginning of the religious confusion we see today in Christiandom.
Posted by: WHAT? | July 20, 2007 2:46 PM
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you also keep useing the word church instead of ecclesial which means the chosen ones gather, if we are to understand the Word then we need the translators to be correct because one letter off from greek or hebrew translations gives the Word a whole differnet meaning. also what part of " I will tear down the temple and in 3 days rebuild it again". do people not understand. The church as you call it is you your being yourself your body is your temple to the Lord, not a building.
Those who hear His Words and understand need not to argue but bring those who are in the dark back to the Light. The Spirit resides in us not a house of brick and wood with relics of Idoltary. God bless and Peace to all and the knowledge you seek ask in His name and He will grant it to you. For He holds the the True Keys to Heaven Dominatio Christo.Yeshua.Jesus Christ.God Bless and Peace.Matthew
Posted by: Anonymous | July 20, 2007 2:31 PM
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Nice chatting with all of you. I respect your opinions.
Got to go.
Posted by: Jon Matthew | July 20, 2007 2:29 PM
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Jose, I have nothing to hide. My name is Jon Matthew. Sorry for not addressing you appropriately. Sorry bud...
Posted by: Jon Matthew | July 20, 2007 2:26 PM
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BGONE, I hardly think The Pope is hiding from the populous! Actually he is out on the front lines addressing key issues on poverty, suffering in the world and other key social issues. You just don't hear them because they hardly make the news. The media is only interested in reporting bad news! Wonder why; hmm maybe because it's a big money maker...
The title of the Pope is to serve man with devotion, charity and love in the name of Jesus Christ.
Not a God Father like you have suggested.
Posted by: Jon Matthew | July 20, 2007 2:23 PM
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"In reality, when Benedict gets into trouble he is usually not addressing the people who get upset; he is speaking to his own flock."
And well the Pope should be able to freely speak to the folk about their uniqueness within the Christian community. He has my respect for being open and direct. That does not mean I agree with everything he says. Catholics can be happy because you seem to now have someone at the top who will stand up for what he believes. I think this would please the Apostle Peter who seemed to always be direct (and sometimes wrong) but never PC.
Posted by: Tim | July 20, 2007 2:23 PM
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Anonymous,
Why you want to be anonymous? Anything to hide? Are you sure Benedict was talking only to Christian theologians. I am not one of them and I got the message.
Posted by: Jose | July 20, 2007 2:19 PM
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Anonymous,
Why you want to be anonymous? Anything to hide?
Posted by: Jose | July 20, 2007 2:17 PM
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Jose, The Pope is reaching out to the Christian theologians too bring all of Christanity under the same roof. To do this he must show the differences between Catholic teaching and Protestant teachings. I for one would love to see one day the church united with all of it's brethern.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 20, 2007 2:13 PM
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WHAT? Funny name by the way. The Catholic Church has roots back to it's founder Jesus Christ. As for your claim that Catholism derives from Paganism research the writings from Church Father Lactantius who debunks all claims that Christanity comes from Paganism. Long read but a good one.
The Greek roots of the term "Catholic" mean "according to (kata-) the whole (holos)," or more colloquially, "universal." Not as you claim friend.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 20, 2007 2:10 PM
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Maybe is time for Professor Ratzinger to start acting like Benedict. If he is so smart, he should realize that he is no longer a german professor teaching to few students, but the head of a religion with millions of followers.
"In fact it acknowledged “these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects...". Wonder if the Catholic church has any defects. El que esta libre de pecado que tire la primera piedra.
Posted by: Jose | July 20, 2007 2:09 PM
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I would like to see the context in which Benedict called Buddhism "autoerotic". His lecture refering to Islam as "violent" (in protest Islamists murdered an Italian nun in Somalia)was actually very interesting, although I think His Holiness would have been aghast at the violence brought forth by his 'violent Islam' comment.
Posted by: Anne Line | July 20, 2007 1:03 PM
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That's right Jon Mathew. Godfathers know that it's unwise to bring attention to ones self when in the criminal professions. The pope is too dumb to realize he's head of a terrorist organization and continues to attract attention. The word is be vewy vewy quit when hunting souls for Lucifer.
http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul is the game and stealth is the only way. Else people will be saying things like, when is the Vatican going to order the return of Aztec, Inca and other looted gold now being used to make chalices to hold the precious body and blood of Jesus. How much gold does it take to make a monstrance so Jesus can be displayed for all to "not look at" yet see? How about a tabernacle? Isn't there a right-smart of gold in a tabernacle. Where did it all come from? I know God created it but who was the last legitimate owner before it was gifted to God?
Maybe his holiness should shut up before people find out whazup. Does the professor know the meaning of that word?
Posted by: BGone | July 20, 2007 12:35 PM
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How can the catholic church be the 'true' church when they have roots back to the Babylonian mystery religion, let alone keep pagan days as 'religous' holidays? Theres no truth in keeping a holiday where bunnies are said to lay eggs or that the 25th of December is Christs birthday. The bible says, in John, 'Thy word is truth'. In catholocism, 'their word is error'.
The bible warns agains doing as the heathen (pagans). I guess they are clueless....
...or deceived...Rev. 12:9 tells the whole story.
Posted by: WHAT? | July 20, 2007 12:34 PM
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BGONE - I will take your bet. If the Pope is succeeded by another Pope then you were wrong! If you are wrong then open your heart to the possibility of Christanity.
If I'm wrong then Christanity is dead and your right! That won't happen thou... Remember my words, "the church will be around for generation upon generation and will stand against time...
Hopefully the current Pope will be around for along time because like wise I think the Pope is a good man with good intentions...
But never the less he will be succeeded by another in perfect succesion.
God day Bgone...
Posted by: Jon Matthew | July 20, 2007 12:30 PM
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AN UNBROKEN HISTORY
Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He then noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return.
Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)
Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.
Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.
The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.
Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.
Posted by: Jon Mathew | July 20, 2007 12:22 PM
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Correct ANONYMOUS, the pope is so important that when he speaks people listen. Now is that a matter of understanding, misunderstanding or simple distortion, static in the lingo of radio that is the root cause of the problem?
The pope is a funny looking little man with no real education, learned a pack of lies, negatively educated so it is small wonder what he says will be heard with open mouth by many and understood by only a precious few. Being understood used to be a problem for the listeners as his word was without question. Things were different before they all changed.
Will this be the last pope? http://www.hoax-buster.org Just thinking about that very likely possibility is making those who think the pope's words are without question heads hurt too.
Worried about what happens to the millions slopping at the trough of religion? Why? You didn't worry about the Nazis that lost their jobs of what happened to mafia soldiers when the Don was put away.
Posted by: BGone | July 20, 2007 12:22 PM
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The Pope is always one step ahead of everyone else and challenges modern day thinkers, religious leaders and politicians. He says such things to get peoples attention! And boy does he ever get peoples attention. In the end the Pope summarizes his teachings beautifully with clear understandings for those who are intrigued in what he has to say.
I’m intrigued with so many others!
This document is a challenge to non-catholic Christian theologians. And so far no protestant leader has answered his challenge to real theological debate… Benedict is a confident teacher as he should be! I for one am riveted by how much I have learned from this spiritual leader.
The Pope says it like it is and I respect that. I was once a Protestant but I couldn’t ignore the overwhelming evidence of Catholicism. Once you read the church fathers you will see what I’m saying.
The information is out there! The church fathers teach the errors of humanists linking paganism to Christianity (Lactantius), historicity of Christ from Pagan, Jewish and Christian sources, the sacraments and there true meaning, oral tradition and the biblical teachings of the gospel, exegesis and hermeneutics to properly understand the bible, philosophy, reason, epistemology, miracles, the power of prayer, understanding the human soul, the infinite creator, Apostolic succession, Old Testament prophesies of Christ revealed, the supernatural sense of faith, and of course LOVE…
I don’t think one human being could review all the evidence collected in one life time but I am trying ha aha ha. Amazing.
Have a great day everyone.
“Diliges Dominum Deum tuum ex toto corde tuo et ex tota anima tua et ex tota fortitudine tua”
Posted by: Anonymous | July 20, 2007 11:59 AM
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As long as Professor Ratzinger calls Buddhism "autoerotic," he will not be using the technical language of theologians and the academic discipline of religious studies, and certainly not speaking to Buddhist theologians in the language of the profession. That may be his language, but it is incumbent on Professor Ratzinger to use language appropriate to the discipline and situation, especially when the doctrine of "no-self" is of vital importance in the different facets of Buddhism. If Professor Ratiznger calls a "chair" a "franakapan," it is not the failure of others to reject that language, simply because one facet of a universal, missionary religious tradition happens to recognize him as the head of its earthly church.
Posted by: Christopher W. Chase | July 20, 2007 11:41 AM
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Fr. Reese - here's an idea on how to get through to the Pope without insulting his intelligence or his exalted self-perception:
Tell him the “little ones” are too naïve to understand him. A translator is needed for the proletariat to understand the import of his words. Then have the Pope check out the translator’s dumbed-down statement for accuracy before distributing it to the masses.
Posted by: E favorite | July 20, 2007 11:24 AM
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Education is "knowing the meaning of the words." Therefore ignorance is "not knowing the meaning of the words."
What is "distorting the meaning of the words"?
Holy - of the hole. Without body. Invisible.
Evil - the opposite of holy.
"An evil spirit entered the body of Saul...." Now just what kind of spirit is evil, has a body, is not invisible? What is an evil spirit? Ignorant people immediately think devil. It was alcohol that entered Saul's body, a mind altering agent that has a body. Spirits are mind altering agents.
Are spirits, ghosts, souls and God even all the same thing? Are Jews, Hebrews and Israelites just one group of people? Why do we have all these different words that all mean the same thing? Do they?
Posted by: BGone | July 20, 2007 11:21 AM
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Dear papal apologist,
This is not just Benedict being Professor Ratzinger. This is Benedict being pompous bigot Ratzinger. At least he is straightforward about it.
Posted by: Roy | July 20, 2007 11:20 AM
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Dear papal apologist,
This is not just Benedict being Professor Ratzinger. This is Benedict being pompus bigot Ratzinger. At least he is straightforward about it.
Posted by: Roy | July 20, 2007 11:20 AM
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... or in matters corporal, as has happened to many unfortunate young people in the Pontiff's Church.
Posted by: Norrie Hoyt | July 20, 2007 11:14 AM
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To bad the Catholic Harlot Church did'nt realize they error of their ways back 600 to 1500 years ago when they were killing and murdering 10's of thousands if not millions of :
Paulicians
Tondrakians
Bogomilists
The Bosnian Church
and last but not least....The Cathars
You are that monster who chased and pursued the true church into the wilderness, in the way's of the nickolacians and in the error of Balaam you do go, and to dust you shall pulverized by the Rock & Lamb of God on the Day of his Return.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 20, 2007 11:13 AM
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A good Professor or teacher knows his students very well, and uses language that will educate them without distorting or messing things up for them by the use of ill-chosen words.
At this important task, Benedict XVI flunks out.
Buddhism is "autoerotic"? As a Buddhist sympathizer, I'd rather be that than f----d over by the Pontiff's Church in matters religious.
Posted by: Norrie Hoyt | July 20, 2007 11:06 AM
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Could the pope be correct and the rest of the world be wrong? If one is insulted by facts maybe one should reexamine one's position.
A golden opportunity for the pope to reexamine his position while he still has a position to reexamine. He doesn't seem to have the conquer the world attitude of John 23 but the possibility of losing the world is very real.
I suspect his world is lost, http://www.hoax-buster.org Take the Bible away and what's left for foundation? The Bible is history as advertised. Everyone will understand that we can be sure.
Posted by: BGone | July 20, 2007 10:36 AM
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You are absolutely correct. No one likes to report good news about anything, like I have said lies are more profitable. Also this board I do not even care who it is run by, but if you look it does show that us as Christians are able to discuss and come together without hate or violence. Also the temple referance was just that a referance, I don't wish violence on anyone. I just hope we are not to late, at scratching the surface, because I hope you do realize we are a minority and there is alot of the majority who have lost faith because they know no better, and they did follow the false hearted with all their hearts and then they were let down, these are the ones to be concerned with. I has been nice talking with you,and I wish you well on your journey in life, I will pray for you as I hope you will pray for me, then we will pray for all. God bless and Peace. Matthew
Posted by: Anonymous | July 20, 2007 9:14 AM
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I am afraid that I would be quite powerless with respect to 'removal', obviously the level of protection is more comprehensive than one's simple observation of the reality of what is happening.
However, there are other things one can do, and your words are powerful and motivating. One can publicly pray.
Since I truly desire the well being of brothers who seem far off and so angry that public threats are not beyond the pale of options for gaining control, the opposite approach, of prayer for their good, is always possible and as you say, anyone can do it, no permission is required.
That they feel that they are in no need of others' prayers for their daily conversion, though feel qualified to celebrate mass asking God for ours, is a remarkable contradiction. No one is outside of God's love, and everyone worthy of our hearfelt prayer on their behalf.
Corruption is always powerful and can have a kind of self importance, a way of promotion, however, even unseen pure love in the tiniest act speaks of infinite power. I wish to join to that one, not cooperate with the other kind of power.
Newsweek and the Post are interested in selling, and advertising, not souls or even in bringing people together. The topics raised on these boards are just scratching the surface of the full reality of life amongst people of all faiths and denominations and sometimes even the surface presentation incredibly warped in favor of what it seems editorial boards and advertisers most hope to hear. A message of reconciliation never makes headlines.
Peace to you also.
Posted by: Antonia | July 20, 2007 7:40 AM
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I did not say not to celabrate the sacrements, you have the answer to your question. What you fail to realize is you have the authority to spread the Fathers word you have the Grace to celebrate communion with others. Do you beleive that a woman does not have the authority to spread the Word of the Lord or celebrate communion. What people do not realize is there are church rules where you can challenge to remove or chose a new preist, they just don't let you know that, they have the same power you or I do and this is the power given by Christ himself for all to spread his Word, and by Word I also me his sacrements, I celebrate communion every morning before I start my day. I used to defend the church the same way but when we do discover the truth it is hard to defend lies, there is no right or wrong if we are to preach the Word. If the Word is not worthy then neither is our existance. When Jesus went into the temple with the corruption what did he do, did he say sorry but you guys, no he stirred things up, and righted our wrongs. Until they realized they have many things broken that need to be fixed it is up to the rest of the Flock to keep us together. Once a blind man is able to see, when he doesn't like what he is seeing does he ask to be blind again? God Bless and Peace.Matthew
Posted by: Anonymous | July 19, 2007 9:06 PM
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There are some great points you raise that I will think more about, for sure. I have read the gospel of Thomas, the gnostic gospel however a long time ago.
I think that especially given that humans are all sinful and fallible, it is helpful that we have the sacraments, which are always reliable and with tradition are timeless and can be traced to the bible as well as the way in which the earliest Christians remembered Christ's death and resurrection.
So it is good that we have both, humans who agree to serve, and, sacraments, which are really worthy of the term infallibility, though I am no scholar. Perhaps my words are, academic, or, redundant.
Being human, it is also good to have norms and tradition which informs the way the sacraments can be discovered, so that one person cannot decide on their own what seems better or worse but that the church working in concert with tradition and more voices settles upon the sort of 'formulas' that are universal and familiar to all.
Priests agree to minister the sacraments in a reliable from, the people agree to receive them as worthily as possible, in a way. That they are done in Christ's name according to what is as close as possible to the way sacraments were instituted, affirms that we are able to continue in some recognizable form what he began.
The church does not dictate people's actions, obviously, people are as always free to do what they want regardless of what is taught as infallible or just, as some believe, some nice suggestions.
Quite honestly at least for me it has always been easy enough to do a virtuous work in private, without anyone's knowledge, certainly I never feel compelled to gain permission to attempt to do a 'good work' which involves just one other person. It's when I agree to take something on which requires interaction in both diversity and communion that the real challenge arises.
So far, the Catholic hierarchy, the priests, seem to continue to feel up to the challenge to continue in ministry, and have not given up yet nor have decided that the people ought to just celebrate the sacraments ourselves. Their presence is gratifying but is in and of itself still a challenge in many cases. It seems that the more confused the roles the more bitter people become. Obviously there is a very obvious power difference no matter how one styles themselves. One cannot be properly directed towards the good by, as you say, corruption, and there can be the worst types of visible harm when corruption holds on to and exercises power and authority, without mercy or without regard for the full spectrum of effects. As you say, it's interchangeably the blind leading the blind. So there are many levels of expectation of service. What is the appropriate response, to just leave. The problem is that when on top of the usual corruption there is a pretense of having no power or authority or it remains secretive or arbitrarily or whimsically exercised, people continue to suffer. Whereas with an educated people and an open process, with the sacraments as celebrated traditionally, corruption has a bit less of an opportunity to get out of control.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 19, 2007 8:41 PM
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There is nothing wrong with communities coming together to celebrate in Christ, it is when the people in charge become corrupt with power that is the problem. Don’t forget today people took the meaning of catholic and turned it into a religion by naming it a religion not keeping in its true meaning of Universal, also the they replaced ecclesial with the meaning of a church or temple. What people don’t realize is when you do kind acts and do good to people you don’t know, those are acts of the Lord. Houses of prayer are not a bad place when they are understood for what they are to be used for. In order to be truly Universal There can not be any limits put in place then it is not universal anymore. Believe me there is nothing more that I wish for us to know what true worship is, like our brothers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Just the plain and simple fact that the pope and all those before believe that they are infallible being born of man and women dictates other wise, Just because you are picked by men to preach the Word of the Lord, Does not mean they are the Lord, for only He is infallible. All I want people to see Is we all believe in Christ we all have different ways of thought just as the 12 apostles they did not see Christ the same way as each other. That is one thing about religion it brings two people of the same Faith against odds with each other. When with Just Faith alone should brings us closer together. I ask all of you to read the Gospel of Matthew and John, but when you read it this time, read it as you where Listening to Christ himself preaching at the time of our Brothers, leave all religion out and read with faith, if you have a problem with the traditional bibles get a copy of the NJV version translated to modern English. Then when you get done look into the Gospel of Thomas. Also just for some insight the letters I have posted have been written over the Past ten years not just recently plus there is a lot more that fill in the gaps.
One thing we forget we can not compare ourselves to the Lord he is free of sin we are not, all we can do is walk justly in the eyes of the Lord. Also when we speak of the Father do you worry about angering man or God? God Bless and Peace always. Matthew
Posted by: Anonymous | July 19, 2007 3:30 PM
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I agree with everything you say, except the idea that religion obstructs rather than is itself a blessed and practical means to worship God.
God can never be blamed for our own sinfulness, and that we are sinful means that we must try to listen to each other all the more, and not decide to give up on religion altogether.
How can we grow in our praise of God if not in a context of a community? Where we can listen to, and sometimes correct, and sometimes ask for forgiveness and sometimes forgive, or even, just be present to, God's people if not in a community that assents explicitly to at least try and practice a few simple aims (just as you describe).
For Catholics, the very heart of this simple message of God's love is practiced and discovered over a lifetime through ongoing contact with the sacraments, just as we praise God together, listen to God's word together, the sacraments as recognized fully and wholeheartedly by a people united by this hope and joy are always present and always a reliable way of sorting through the often confusing messages and events of our lives.
It's not for nothing that Catholics regard this power and service that priests have vowed to faithfully provide, something similar to the holy power of married spouses to bring life from God into the world, as being so essential over the lifetime of a believer or believing community.
It's an exercise in trust, oftentimes, believers look to priests' roles to bring from the sacraments the peace that is not of this world. Priests generally welcome this service and recognize this privilege and joyfully wish to help believers to go forward in thie faith in confidence and love.
However occasionally as it happens one or two in positions of power do betray this trust or at least indicate through a variety of different actions that they aren't reliable to confused seekers looking to advance on the journey via the sacraments, indeed, through their expressed distaste for the church which they strangely publicly still purport to serve, they wound its members who are already understandably in quite a lot of pain from all of the issues you mention.
People may dismiss it as politics but truly communities infected with this sort of personal animus can themselves begin to take on a desperate, officious mentality, and perceive that they must be defensive when of course in reality there is no threat at all, that God does not wish for any one of God's children to worry or be frightened.
We have not been taught how to minister to our priests who seem to have lost an appreciation for the feelings of God's people in the church however perhaps it would be a very worthwhile parish effort. Otherwise people can become discouraged and jaded in their basic daily existence, which in its most mundane and unrecognized form, is fueled by God's love and faith. Since it has not been modelled for us, how to approach priests who seem to be hurting that which we love, which they publicly represent that they love, and since some priests themselves only model a form of dialogue which features insistence and demands, ridicule, stonewalling, derision and divisiveness, we are often sort of searching in the wilderness for role models for this. Some have found at least a few models that one can learn from but it's painstaking work. The Holy Father Pope Benedict is one such man.
Am I the only one who has noticed that whereas everywhere in the last week people have been calling him 'academic' and 'oblivious' an idiot and an ass, that he has not opened his mouth.
For all we know he may regard himself the very same way. We just can't know. But it does seem that he at least seems to be a humble and patient man, given that he has not answered the threats and attacks in kind, which do have the characteristics of the way fathers support their children.
It seems that the onus is on the clergy to reach out to and listen to the flock, and not the other way around, since they agreed to serve, and this expectation that people have is obviously long recognized and important and can in many cases be fulfilled. The flock is very diverse and no one likes to be, or should, be left out or be made to feel less important to communion than another. I think it is an accepted practice in the business world, in education, in medicine, in the performing arts, and certainly in religious matters, for any member of the hierarchy to not wait until their people become overly discouraged and frustrated before inviting a full and open dialogue as to issues of concern. It's even best practice in many areas to anticipate with sensitivity these things. And then act on them, sooner, rather than later.
God brings peace through human beings, there is no other way for God to do it for us.
I will pray for you as well, pray that I defile my heart less.
Posted by: Antonia | July 19, 2007 1:58 PM
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Antonia,
God does bless you from your Faith what the church has to come to grips with is the reality of all religion that destroys the People's Faith in the Father. The Father has done no wrong it the men that try to preach the word that do wrong, but us who did not know any better blame God for all the wrong. We have to look at ourselves first before we can fix others, Also The Father is the giver of free will and anything forced is not the way of the Father. Also we forget God gives us what we need not what we want. Remember those who seek shall find and those who knock he shall answer. Keep your heart pure and surrond yourself with peace and the Father will be with you. Remember He is the Father to us All those who believe and even those who don't we just have to realize it. Yes I will pray for you everyday as I pray for the whole world. God blesses all those who welcome him with a pure heart. That is not hard to do, when you , each person figures out what is defiling their heart, then stop doing it and ask for forgiveness the key is not falling off the path ounce put back on.Remember with the Father all things are possible where as man not so much. God Bless and peace always be welcomed. Just keep His Word in your heart and spread love and joy in His name, Lord Jesus Christ. Matthew
Posted by: Anonymous | July 19, 2007 12:00 PM
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Hi Matthew,
In my comments, I was specifically responding to Father Thomas Reese's article, (the piece quotes a statistic that your lovely posts do not). I actually found your posts to be very insightful and worth reflecting on in depth.
I have done some research but I often fear not nearly enough.
You sound like a believer who could be a real blessing to the church's attempts to dialogue.
Sadly, child abuse is a phenomenon that has gripped the Western world in a virulent way. It appears that it has not lessened but that people with predilections in this way have only felt more emboldened or perhaps encouraged in different ways to carry out their terrifying appetites.
Given this problem, strengthening families through the church and through every faith community would be an excellent and much more worthy use of our priests' time if they find that they are continuously angry at the limited slice of reality that can be found in writing for the secular media and commentating on various pronouncements from here and there.
Please pray for me.
Peace
antonia
Posted by: Antonia | July 19, 2007 11:06 AM
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Sorry but way off if you truly do worship as you say you do then do you research what you believe. Or do you listen to are so called leaders who are just as corrupt as they where when the Lord walked the earth. I don't seek any followers and these letters where not written for the followers of the churches but the leaders. Also there is nothing more I would love to see more then everyone united in Christ. But your leaders put up the walls to divide the Flock. Also your religion has insulted God's name by just molesting one child let alone the rampent truth that only God knows. If they where the true house of the Lord then evil would not have enter His house let alone his preachers of the Word. Also wrong again I work for no media outlet. Just work to put food on the table and walk right in the eyes of the Father and not any man. When you know the real Word then we will compare witts. Also it is called the First amendment. Matthew
Posted by: Matthew | July 19, 2007 12:42 AM
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And just how happy are they, this 56% of under 40 Catholics?
And who is defining this state of happiness, according to whose marketing analysis? In what terms, economic, spiritual, social, work, family life?
Perhaps the remaining percentage does not expect to be made 'happy' by their religion, I don't know, I'm just guessing here.
Likely rather than looking to be made happy, some legitimately regard their role in terms of how they may serve others, and in this capacity find some happiness.
Liberal or conservative, or whatever, there are quite a great many of Catholics who, instead of looking to the church to make them happy, are fully up to the challenge to be made a little bit less complacent.
Any other sociological or anthropological statistics anyone wishes to cite concerning the state of affairs in America for the 40 and under group would indicate that there is much that we could accomplish if moved from complacency and seeking personal happiness, typically through consumerist means.
And as for the group of self styled Catholics that could happily interchange one denomination for another, it's not uncommon these days, that stat actually sounds about right, for many people to feel comfortable and not feel their integrity called into question by living as if the Catholic church's teachings simply did not exist. If one does not appreciate it to begin with but insists on the Catholic tag nonetheless, likely finding one's weekly home (?) elsewhere would really not be regarded as having any measurable difference upon one's current practices, social justice, whatever area of doctrine. It's hard to know whether any church or denomination would finally sufficiently inform the state of happiness or even have anything to do with that area of concern. Unfortunately, the statistic cited is merely a statistic.
The whole approach and tenor reads as if the author of this piece would be satisfied if in fact people were 'driven away'. Which is not really consistent with the tenor of the times, the hope for people to be brought together.
Anyone who truly loved the church and its people and desired its unity would probably find many alternative ways than the above piece and its language to seek after this, and not authoritatively prophecy the ruin of the church and invite disrespect of its legitimate leaders.
However like other commenters elsewhere, it does seem true at this point that the extreme bias of this author truly disqualifies him from any fair hearing of his views or as being reflective of the thinking either of the church hierarchy, clerics, or laity. But for his collar and degrees, no one would publish this material seriously. If you take away this apparatus, the comments (this piece and others) read like any other angry at the church diatribe, most people are not paid for their time in doing this, and more importantly most people are not truly listened to for their anger in church circles or in the secular press. They may be exploited for it, but it is not constructively integrated.
This piece and point of view is not at all reflective of the fullest range of opinions of practicing Catholics, and as a result it strikes of being beholden to a secular media outlet and its needs rather than offering constructive service to the people of faith.
Posted by: Antonia | July 18, 2007 11:05 PM
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Brothers and Sisters,
When we preach do we truly understand the words we are preaching to others. Because I know if I preach the Word and my heart is not truly filled and pure, not only am I defiling myself but also those who follow. If you sin you defile yourself and suffer the consequences for your ignorance, but if you make your followers commit to error and sin not only will they suffer for their sin but you too will suffer twice as bad for bringing them out of the Light and into darkness. I also ask do we hear and understand because I remember the Father lightening our load with His new testament and He gave us Two new commandments to follow 1 There is only one God and Love him 2 Love your neighbor as you would yourselves. Then why when you pray do you pray to our fellow brothers who picked up their crosses before us are they more worthy then us. I say not, remember the Father said “The one who is greatest will be the least and those who are least shall be the greatest”. Now I know I do not have to explain that or this, did not he also say “Those who are first shall be last and last shall be first”. It is time again for the Truth and The Word to shine again.
Those who hear are truly from his flock. Also why do we try to confuse our followers with doctrines handed down with pagan influence while it might have sufficed for the hypocrites and self righteous, they tried to appease the non believers while not caring to please the Father, and now the lie has turned into an abomination, because the truth to Christmas is rooted in paganism and pays homage to false gods. It is time to fix the wrongs that man has errored in his heart. If you are offended by the Lord’s words then ask yourself if you are from his flock. Time is closing in on the evil and the Light will shine true again. Only the Father knows when and where. If we repent and ask for forgiveness and right our wrongs before He comes our suffering won’t be as horrible as if we just kept our ignorance. God bless and Peace be gladly welcomed brothers and sisters.Matthew
Posted by: Anonymous | July 18, 2007 7:57 PM
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The pope could not have picked a worse time to pontificate, could he? What I cannot believe is that he is thinking of visiting the United States. Not a good move unless he wants to put up with pickets everywhere he goes.
And now, of course, we have the Vatican's new spokesperson, also pontificating.
Isn't it sad that the lead off sentence of spokesman Lombardi's recent comments seem to exhibit an "everybody else is doing it" kind of mentality?
Yes, we know that sex abuse is not a "catholic" problem but the cover-up that has been going on certainly appears to be a "catholic" problem.
In fact it seems to be endemic among the bishops of our church.
Why is that?
It may be because the bishops themselves are so much a part of the problem.
Lombardi goes on to say, that the settlement in Los Angeles is an attempt to "close a painful chapter and look forward".
Close it? How can our churchmen speak of closing anything when the problem has not begun to be addressed in Italy, Brazil and most of Africa.
How can our church look forward when the underlying reasons for the extent of the problem have not even been recognized let alone addressed?
The bishops covered up problems they could have dealt with because they are part of a system, they were trained by that system and the system itself is gravely flawed.
The system is the hierarchical system as it exists today in the Catholic Church.
Bishops who have become so much of the problem, like Mahony is Los Angeles, need to be replaced because they have completely lost credibility.
Why even the authorities in Rome will not admit the pandemic nature of the problem.
In Italy a documentary on sexual abuse, I believe it was "Deliver Us From Evil," was banned by the church until the church got equal time.
Confidental reports made to the Vatican on the sexual abuse of nuns have not been dealt with since they were submitted years ago.
No, until clericalism itself is addressed, nothing will change.
Posted by: Mary | July 18, 2007 12:56 PM
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To my brothers and sisters of Christ,
A great confusion blinds people and lets the wicked one slip in. The confusion is the difference in blaming Faith for the ignorance of religion. For those who don’t know the difference Faith is of God, religion is made by men. Evil is the bitterness deep seeded in Mankind’s heart, and for those who hear the word and except it He is the honey that takes away the bitterness and replaces it with the sweet taste of love. Also remember not everyone was meant to be a leader, so to the followers of the Lord I say to you remember His sweet words and his labors are few and light “ there is only one God.” And also “ love your neighbor as you would love yourself.” With that being said do not fret with the heavy burdens the church leaders place on you, keep in continuing to honor Faith to the Father, when the blind are leading the blind the Father doesn’t punish the one’s who don’t know any better, but he will severely punish those who leads them down the wrong path.
Posted by: Matthew Joseph | July 18, 2007 11:49 AM
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Something for Rev.Reese to gander at also ask him how the vatican received it.God Bless. Matthew
Man shall not live on bread alone but by every word of God. Mankind does not starve because God will’s it but because of the hardness of mankind’s heart. For those who truly hear the word, this is depressing truth. There have been many times when I hungered for bread but was satisfied with the Lord’s word. To bad others are not the same, instead of swallowing the word they spit it up and take the bread from other’s who truly hunger.
This used to be the season of hollies no matter what man made religion you follow, man came together in peace and love, but the wedge that the evil one has put in our hearts from the beginning is getting deeper. I remember the Father said, “Those who are for me are not against me, but spread my word.” I believe he was right for the time he walked with our brothers, the one’s who where not chosen by lord still went out and gave praise but they did it to give hope and spread joy. Those today do it for evil intentions, wealth, power and lust, need I go on. It is time to start the plague for the wolves in sheep’s clothing.
A false prophet or messenger is one who uses the word of God for there own gain, sacrifice does not mean killing other’s to force your point of view, and then to say it is the word of God is blasphemy in itself. Remember when legend becomes fact print the legend, it seems lies are a much more profitable business than truths. Why is it when some hear the Truth it angers them when it should elate them, because they are used to living in lies and darkness instead of the light and truth.
Also, remember “If you hold true on earth I will hold true in Heaven”. Key word brothers “IF”, so do I need to say I don’t think we kept our part. Also is not the Father the giver of freewill and his TWO commandments were. 1) There is one God and love him
2) Love your neighbor. But yet you lay down rules and laws with no more authority, which was taken away when you hid the truth. You did not appoint me, but yet the Father gave favor to me in understanding and knowledge of his word not you. Now your way is the way of old just like our Old Testament brothers the father no longer hears your prayer. Is not knowing and doing nothing just as bad as doing it yourself. Yes we are all guilty of it but not in the same evil way. There is no lesser evil, and those of us with understanding know our guilt is not of evil but for repentance, where as some just go on about there business and steal more of his flock away.
Take heed the time is coming and when He only knows, and until then those who abuse the word, Will be abused ten fold back and those who profit from the Lord’s word in wealth and power, you too ten fold and you shall know how the poor and meek live and the sick and lame. For the most unrighteous the Father shall bring down things upon you that I am unable to speak of. Also to those followers of the Wicked the time has come to Cast the Light on you so you scurry like cockroaches for all to see you do exist, then when people see that the Evil one does exist they will be in horror because then they know the Father really does exist. So hear the word and repent, are we so filled with pride we can not ask for forgiveness and apologize to the Father for our evil ways. Not all of the Fathers ways are as easy, except repentance just ask for him to forgive you, that is why he made it so. Remember just ask, He does listen.
To My Brothers on this crusade in life stay strong His Word will prevail, it always does and always will so don’t give up, times will get worse before they get better this we know, so stay on the Right path and give love to those in need, give hope to those in times of sorrow and give prayer to the lost and evil that they too, see the LOVE and MERCY our Father is capable of giving. With that being said, you love the same and keep your faith strong because that is all we have that the evil can not take away. Peace unto you and God Bless. Matthew.
Posted by: Matthew Joseph | July 18, 2007 11:34 AM
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