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in "shambles",

1. shamballa of Buddha
2. Shammahs of Jehowah "being there and home",
3. false-bless. sham: false, mal-

but what did you put on that word?

what is the difference between AMBLES and SHAMBLES, due to ease of walking, is SH, lets look up for St Helena.

1. Saint Helena, mother of Constantine I who became Christian in 313

(according to tradition she found in Jerusalem in 326 the relic of the cross on which Jesus Christ was crucified)

2. Helena of Troia.

and we have "the tenth day of eleven days after nine days".

Jerusalem and Vatican. lets talk about mediterranean dendrology, olive trees especially.

Buddha and Jesus are like talking in two languages, but one speech. transliteration may be fruitful, provided there is no insist on one branch of the family, targeted.

i go to grandparents, Mr Bohlin.

so you are talking about finding God in Catholic means.

"a-tone-ment" is attunement, "having one tone"

Finding God in Peace and War

How do you keep your faith in times of peace and prosperity?

After 9/11 there were those whose faith was left in shambles, but there seem to have been many more who were moved by the catastrophe to turn back to God.

kataster: landowner (german)
rophe: healing (hebrew)

peace: solo-mon (hebrew) "united family"
prosperity: wealth

pros: towards,
perity: skillfullness, readiness (perite)

cath: war, being inclined and skillful
olic: of oil and virtues

[*map/map_index_cnx2_11.txt||10||r||1|| @]

[*map/map_index_cnx2_11.txt||10||r||1|| @]

[*map/map_index_cnx2_11.txt||10||r||1|| @]

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[*map/map_all_ag2.txt||10||r||1|| @]

Lots of sound and fury signifying nothing. It's disheartening to read some much vitriol and personal rage from supposed "peace-mongers" who bad mouth everybody else but fail to look in the mirror or suppress their own urges to "prove the other guy wrong". How do you think wars start? From overblown pride (lack of humility) and the need to demonstrate it, just as you do with your vicious words. Don't you see the part you play?
Non-believers rarely see the forest through the trees. Granted, Iraq is a big old fat ugly tree but there is far more evil and suffering in the world than this. Abortions (90% done for purposes of "lifestyle convenience") kill more unborn children (i.e. humans with unique DNA- not "part of a woman's body" like a lung that would have her DNA) in the world every week than the number of people who have died in Iraq in four years. Addictions to alcohol, drugs, and pornography as well as abortion characterize our self-indulgent, narcissitic society where we are all about serving and glorifying ourselves --where our arrogant pride (delusion that we possess supreme intelligence) separates us from a loving God. That's the lesson in the OT-- worhsipping false idols (consumerism, self, power, etc.) separates us from God and brings misery. Even if you're a-religious, doesn't common sense show you this? Thank the Lord that He is good and merciful and, because of his Son, we all have hope.

I won't go into KMO's unfortunately ignorant and misinformed diatribe on church history (2 bit half-truth sound bites) but it goes to prove that the best we can do is work toward our own personal holiness (aka "virtue" for atheists), clearly an endeavor in which we can all engage and change the world for the better.

Sidenotes for historical accuracy: 20th Century genocidal maniacs like Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot were not christians acting in the name of their god, unless you call communism and fascism religions (but decidedly anti-christian). Even japanese historians agree that the bombs on Hiroshima/Nagasaki, though horrific, saved many more millions than they killed, given the situation. The mission of the crusades was not genocide (though atrocities occurred) while the explicitly stated mission of muslim extremists is "convert or die" and they send us video of decapitations. Apples to oranges.

Monsignor,

I agree with you....Yeshua did found your church.

I feel that Christ reflected in his life, that:
a) it is good to kill in his name (i.e. crusades)
(btw, where does this vary from muslims killing
for their allah?)
b) it is good to kill his own (see inquisitions-
jews killed)
c) it is good to die for our sins then step back
into old testament covenents (see contantine
killing others in a name of a cross)
d) how many lives have been spiritually &
pyschologically killed, generations perhaps,
by supposed "one true church leaders" like
pedophile priests?
e) Jesus did set up his business...er....cough...
church, in a way that, say, if you couldn't
pay your debts, that you could declare
bankruptcy. (see Spokane/Portland and 2 or 3
others in this vein)

Yes, I believe He gave this model so that all could feel his love reasonate thru these actions.

Just, exactly, how many people DID Christ, that
founded your own "one true church" kill?

You are confusing churchianity with christianity.

Your first, so called pope (Peter)...read first Peter...I believe in the first few paragraphs he
states we must be "born again"....twice...hmmmm.
I could try 'n thrust that down your throat, but
I wouldn't be much different than you.

Something to understand here is that I don't state that "my way is the ONLY way" and "my church is the ONLY church of Jesus"....I see MANY offerings in the word (John 17:17 "the word is truth") on how to get to heaven-none of which require a specific church-matter of fact, what is a church? The orig. greek has it as "eklessia" (pls forgive spelling) and translated to english, that means: "a congregation"...just like the "congregation of believers", those who, like Peter, when asked, profess Yeshua *is* The Messiah-the Son of God.

I also question the timing of this announcement and your article. Almost like its to preempt this
big 600million settlement (part of over 2 billion)
just announced after it, regarding LA area but hey, its not about money, its about saving souls.
(think spain/mexico-the killing for the gold & to become a earthly super power for a while)-think
papal states-heck, think vatican (what was the 2nd location the bloomberg terminal was placed in?).....yes, your trivia is answered by the Vatican, but hey, its not about the $, is it?
Maybe its just about the power, the control,
the humanity of it all. Quite contrary to your supposed founders words about dying unto self.

Roger, you numbers are way off and the following were not wars for Christianity:

1st WW : 10 million death
2nd WW : 40 millino death

Hiroshima/Nagashaki Japan Nuke : 3 million death

Iraq : 700,000 death
Afghanistan : 350,000 death
Iraq before war embargo : 500,000 death
Bosnia : 120,000 death

As for the Inq and Crusades - it was not in the millions you idiot!

Mr Mark:
What? needs to read his scripture:

1 Corinthians 3:18
If any man among you seems to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1 Corinthians 4:10
We are fools for Christ's sake

Yes, and you're ignorant of the fact that the King James transaltion of 'fool' does not reflect the original greek meaning.

Get real, man. Study it a little more before commenting on it or take it up with King James.

Roger Smith,

Please give references for your statistics. And if my memory serves me correctly, Muslims were no angels in various ethnic cleansings. They also reaped the sacrifices of Allied, NATO and USA forces in protecting Muslim "oildoms".

What? needs to read his scripture:

1 Corinthians 3:18
If any man among you seems to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1 Corinthians 4:10
We are fools for Christ's sake.

Look at the numbers and tell me who is greater evil throught out humanity and recorded history.

1st WW : 10 million death
2nd WW : 40 millino death

Hiroshima/Nagashaki Japan Nuke : 3 million death

Iraq : 700,000 death
Afghanistan : 350,000 death
Iraq before war embargo : 500,000 death
Bosnia : 120,000 death

those are few examples of recent one that we know some are still not over.

Crusades : 2 million ++ death
Spanish Inquisition : 1.5 million ++ death

one thing is common among above those all are done by Christian leaders and those followers of the religion call LOVE your enemy.

Now war/battle by Muslim army according to documented non islamic historians:

Take control twice of Jerusalem by Omar/Saladin : less than 100 killed because the Christian army fled of the battle so the muslim army just walked in without blood.

Muslim invasion of ancient persia: less than 150 killed. Still Jews live in Iran largest in the middle east after Israel.

Muslim invasion of Rome : less than 50 in the battle and they surrendered and paid ransom not much blood was lost.

Muslim invasion of Spain / Granada : less that 500 same the Spanish army fled the war against the invading large muslim army. No force conversion and Jews lived there more in number than Jerusalem that time not a single convertion was documented. Chief of Ottoman army was a Jewish man fighting with the Muslim soldiers. It was politics of nationality not religion, today Jews still live in Turkey in large numbers.

Muslims in India : no recorded war but trade of muslim merchants and they ruled over 1200 years and still today Hindus are majority almost 90 percent no force conversion to Islam

Recent history: Sept 11, 3000 death blamed to Muslim fanatics.

Filipine : total killed by terrorism less than 100 in last 10 years against Govt. policy of oppression.

Thailand : less than 50 by bombs and others including army planned incidents.

Palestine : Hamas and other fanatics killed less than 5000 in 60 years of fighting with the state of Israel in return Israel killed over 60,000 +++ 3 million homeless.

This is it.

Add up the numbers you will learn the truth. Know the truth and truth will set you free (The Bible -John) who is greater evil?

Peace and we should just stop blaming Muslims, learn history and you will see the light why the living evil man Bush has said Islam is peace because this is the truth and the number tells it all. We know 700K killed in Iraq but the media will not say it because they are Muslims but if one die in Israel by a Muslim Palestinian the whole world will cry wolf. Who is the evil? Peace to you all.

PS - Pope John Paul was against this war from the beginning as it was not a just war.

Hopefully the new pope gives Bush an ear-full this week.

Where are the protests, btw? Are polls the only way for people to voice their concern/power.

I agree with Rock.

Muslims in the ME are fighting foreign invaders and a policy that is in favor of the Haliburtons, Bectels, the defense industry and Israeli interests.

Did you know that the planners of this war were also hardline zionists? Wolfowitz, Perle and Feith...

Google/read a paper by feith and perle called "Securing the Realm"

It is about the plans implimented by the American zionist Neo Cons to secure and dominate the middle east for Israel.

Fear - you're going to hell/life is scary/etc.! Fear gets you into the religion.

Amazing. Is this guy a teenager or something? Like every Christian thinks like this. Clueless.

Ignorance - be a fool for Christ. Don't believe science or anything fact-based, keep it fantasy-based. Ignorance is bliss.

Again, this guy is clueless...as well as cynical.
So, Christians have no facts of science in their minds. Tell me, atheists, give me YOUR facts, then, on your coming into being. Im sure you were there.

Guilt - the ONLY unforgivable sin is the sin against the Holy Spirit, and you don't receive the Holy Spirit until you are born again. Ergo, the sin against the Holy Spirit is the sin of rejecting the Holy Spirit/Xian faith once you've found it. The guilt of this dogma keeps you from leaving the faith, or of even entertaining thoughts of leaving...or of digesting information that is contrary to the tenets of your faith that may put a real doubt in your mind about your faith. Guilt works.

The only guilt here is an atheist who has no guilt about anything. Free Spirit. Do as I please. No absolutes. 1+2 does not have to be 3. It almost seems he would rather not answer to anybody..

Fear-Ignorance-Guilt: the FIG Principle.

Your FIG (principle) is rotten, my friend.

Sam, Mark, Pam, Speedy

All of you have valid points! Christianity is an individual journey. Every person born must choose for themselves what is their God (god) reality or unreality. Plus, that's what America is all about! Think and do what you want, have your opinion, as long as it is not amoral or dangerous. I must say that I don't think the "Promised Land" is a fairy tale, but I will agree with you Sam: who are those people are in Israel? The "promise" of Abraham is to everyone by faith, not nationality or ethnicity. Otherwise all dark skinned people (Abraham was kinda dark, as was Jesus) would be heirs to the promise. If the bible is correct, as far as I am concerned (I dont speak for all christians), hard core Zionist are more anti-christ(ian) than any Moslem, athiest, whatever. And I, as a conservative christian, am flabbergasted at the blind support conservatives (most republicans and evangelicals) give Israel, as if God will curse us if we don't. Israel is about one thing: survival until the final showdown, with the hope and belief that they will rule and run the world with God's blessing. And finally, war is made in the heart of lustful (power) and greedy men (special intrest) who do not have to send their sons and bush/cheney/rumsfeld/pearl children to walk the streets of bagdad.
I wonder will this get posted?

Sam, Mark, Pam, Speedy

All of you have valid points! Christianity is an individual journey. Every person born must choose for themselves what is their God (god) reality or unreality. Plus, that's what America is all about! Think and do what you want, have your opinion, as long as it is not amoral or dangerous. I must say that I don't think the "Promised Land" is a fairy tale, but I will agree with you Sam: who are those people are in Israel? The "promise" of Abraham is to everyone by faith, not nationality or ethnicity. Otherwise all dark skinned people (Abraham was kinda dark, as was Jesus)would be heirs to the promise. If the bible is correct, as far as Christianity is concerned, hard core Zionistst are more anti-christ(ian) than any Moslem. And I, as a conservative christian, am flabbergasted at the blind support conservatives (most republicans and evangelicals) give Israel, as if God will curse us if we don't. Israel is about one thing: survival until the final showdown, with the hope and belief that they will rule and run the world with God's blessing. And finally, war is made in the heart of lustful (power) and greedy men (special intrest) who do not have to send their sons and bush/cheney/rumsfeld/pearl children to walk the streets of bagdad.
I wonder will this get posted?

No, Pam; you stated:

"Speedy is giving you an example of the Christian love"

and, therefore, *imply* a general hypocricy of Christianity or Christian love.

The typical tactics of simplification and generalization used by "atheists" who seem them selves as unique and "enlightened."

I wasn't generalizing at all, I was speaking of *you*.

OK - I feel into that trap; however, FIGs!, give me a break, Mark...

What an ignorant and misleading way to describe Christianity.

And Pam, my temper is my problem...not the problem of other Christians.

I love the idea that each atheist speaks for themself and every Christian speaks for all of Christianity.

Its call generalizing...and it is sophomoric.

MR MARK,
Speedy is giving you an example of the Christian love that he has for his fellow man when he calls you an assh*le. :)

Hey Speedy -

Hey bud. How's things?

I wasn't ready for the nastiness in your last post. I thought you were mellowing.

Anyway - there's no substance to your last post, at least as it relates to me. That's the best response I can come up with at this time.

Maybe next time.

:)

Mark, Mark, Mark,

Try sticking to subjects you know so that you dont sound like a complete assh*le and give you and your ilk a bad name.

You understand ZERO of the teachings of Christianity or the purpose of those teachings.

FIG - Did you come up with that all by yourself?!

Judging by your post, the only one who is scared, ignorant and guilty is.........you.

"...most Christians don't come to belief in God from fear but through personal blessings and happiness."

On the contrary, most Xians come to their faith through fear.

Xianity operates on the FIG principle:

Fear - you're going to hell/life is scary/etc.! Fear gets you into the religion.

Ignorance - be a fool for Christ. Don't believe science or anything fact-based, keep it fantasy-based. Ignorance is bliss.

Guilt - the ONLY unforgivable sin is the sin against the Holy Spirit, and you don't receive the Holy Spirit until you are born again. Ergo, the sin against the Holy Spirit is the sin of rejecting the Holy Spirit/Xian faith once you've found it. The guilt of this dogma keeps you from leaving the faith, or of even entertaining thoughts of leaving...or of digesting information that is contrary to the tenets of your faith that may put a real doubt in your mind about your faith. Guilt works.

Fear-Ignorance-Guilt: the FIG Principle.

Examine the roots of religion, the three great faiths and many questions are answered. Faith is in Devil and not God at all. Those who sell their souls are blessed as the above post notes which generated faith.

Faith pushers rely on hell to reel their victims in. The big money goes to the ones who lead the multitudes to hell just like the Bible, the source of Devil knowledge says.

http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul for the Bible's version of the original soul seller.

There may be a connection of faith and war. Where does "lock and load,, now send them to hell" come from? Is it valid? Do the dead enemy actually go to hell?

Anonymous: If that really is your name.
“most Christians don't come to belief in God from fear, but through personal blessings”

No, I am afraid you are completely wrong. Most Christians come to god by indoctrination and tradition from parents. Don’t take my word for it, look it up.…
Adversity also helps a great deal, Compare wealthy, prosperous economies vs. 3rd world and blighted areas.
As far as someone, a nonbeliever, living well with a nice family, good friends, a big screen TV and a full tank of gas, suddenly looking around and saying “Wow I’m happy, there must be a god after all!” I certainly can’t say it doesn’t happen, but I’d really like to see your numbers on that….

Sorry to be direct and adversarial, but you did throw me an unsupported statement….

I’m really more interested in how faith in god can be rationalized, justified, satisfied by a soldier in a war that in his own strong belief does not coincide with.

"You’re absolutely right Bobster! It’s mans evil heart that inspires war and hatred!"

Men start wars, men fight wars, and men negotiate peace at the end of their wars.

God isn't involved because god doesn't exist. War is a human enterprise. Man has long used religion and god as the excuse for the reason to start his wars, but they are still his wars. Religionists have often attributed the peace at the end of wars to the power of god, but peace at war's end is another entirely human enterprise.

No god is needed in the equation that is war. In fact, god is no more necessary to the equation of war and peace than is adding another zero after a decimal point.

Yes indeed BOBSTER, when one speaks from personal experience it lends an air of credibility not found in those who only speculate about life in the trenches. Well said.

Densbtly, most Christians don't come to belief in God from fear but through personal blessings and happiness.

When your personal prayers come true when they seemed impossible; you start to wonder of the existence of God.

But that's something that you wouldn't understand because faith before grace!

You’re absolutely right Bobster! It’s mans evil heart that inspires war and hatred!

Wars as commented about so far are to an individual’s personal faith no different than whatever it is that mortally scares or threatens them. The ‘foxhole’ is no different than the storm shelter during a tornado, the twisting/confining wreckage of a car during the slow-motion nanoseconds of a crash, the passenger compartment of an airliner as it plummets, for several minutes, toward the ground… These all are exactly the same fear of death and or violent pain and dismemberment that probably led to the invention of religion in the first place.
That an individual during imminent threat will cry out to a god, their mother, or just spew expletives is hardly shocking, nor does it prove or indicate anything other than stark, mortal fear and panic.
The one difference between war and other forms of imminent violence is that at least in war you can shoot back, or even preemptively. I am no expert on religious or spiritual faith, since I have none, but it seems to me that the greater tell of an individual’s ‘faith’ during war is how he handles, not the fear in the foxhole, but rather the trigger on the rifle.
If you do not believe that the cause is just, as some of our fine soldiers surely believe, what is a poor grunt to do? What if he believes that god is loving, true and just, but the war is not, that he is only being shot at because he is there, and the only reason for him to shoot a fellow man, another of god’s creatures, is to keep him from shooting first, or because he is ordered to do so?

Monsignor Bohlin,

I enjoyed your article Sir. And i can relate to the soldier praying in the foxhole. You know its funny now, but it was not funny then. At that time all I wanted was God or someone to stop all the madness. I was not even sure of a God then, like now.

I guess though that over the years I have come to realize that its people who start wars out of greed, and fear. And if there is a God, then he has nothing to do with any of our sick behaviors, during war or peace. That we as humans will always do bad things and then look for a scapegoat to blame it on.

I am in the process of reading C.L. Lewis right now. I am not a christian, but that man makes a whole bunch of sense in many areas.

It is about time to forget all about the man made fairy tales that have led to the murder of millions of innocent people in this world.One single fairy tale in the old testament,the so- called promised land, has led to wiping out a legitimate country from the world map to be replace by an illegitimate country. Palestinians,being moslems or christians,were kicked out of their homeland to live in refugee camps and to be replaced by immigrant jews from Europe,Russia,Ethiopia etc.
This fairy tales has been and is still behind all bloodshed and turmoil in the Middle East.

Well, how many divisions has the Pope?

John Paul II tried. He read a long speech to George Bush on the iniquities of the Iraq occupation and Benedict will probably do likewise when the President visits the Vatican this week. Benedict has also opined that in today's "shock and awe" warfare and the concomitant terrible loss of civilian life, there is no such thing as a "just war."

And Monsignor Bohlin hits on an aspect of war that favours both religion and group solidarity: war unites a society. You can see this in suicide figures from Northern Ireland: during the worst of The Troubles suicides fell sharply. Church going--both to the majority Presbyterian religion and to the minority Catholic faith--was very high.
With the Good Friday agreement church affiliation has fallen. I don't know what has happenned to the number of suicides.

Pope John Paul II was opposed to this war from the start, he said it was immoral and unjust and for that I'm grateful. I think, after four years of the war, the church should be more vocal in their opposition of this illegal war.

It's spouting simplistic diatribe like that which is hurting the church. Our nation started a genocidal war to grab resources for big business campaign contributors, the like of which harbors back to the actions of Germany and Japan, both nations that lost their faith after the war because their own religious leaders did nothing much to stop their governments' terrible actions.

And we get platitudes from our church instead of real opposition? In Germany porn is more popular than God. Get ready for the end of church power in the US if you can't do better in standing against the evil our government is doing.