Yes, If You Believe in a Loving, Inclusive God

You say, "Lisa Miller's article in Newsweek seems to be right on the money. Either God is an inclusive, loving God who made everyone, or God is not. And if we come to a consensus that God made everyone, then we can agree that God made gay people.

That's step one of this argument. God made gay people, like God made everyone else. Gay people prefer people of the same sex, so if God made them that way, then that was God's choice."

My questions:

Did God make rapists, serial murderers, theives,
adulterers, liars, etc...how many "good" people
did God make, and how many "non-good or evil"
people did God make?

Your logic is illogical and you simply haven't
read the Holy Bible very seriously. You make
so many erroneous assumptions and statements
that your article is a "joke" to any intelligent
person.

Rev. Dr. Susan, Shew....thank you! I was becoming skeptical reading some comments. Its amazing to see how some 'cristians' are still majoring in the minors. STILL!!! I don't think God said love those who are not different to or have the same ideals as you. I believe He said, Love. Love anyone and everyone, no one is excluded. He didn't say you had to agree with them, nor did He say to judge them, just to love them as I would you (He would us). One love, one God, one direction. So long as my partner, wether male or female, is committed to that same philosophy, my belief is that everything else will fall into place. Again thank you. Thank you for majoring in and practicing what He preaches, LOVE, LOVE,LOVE!!!!!

Obviously when Sue wrote this post, she was not referring to the Bible and God's message in it's entirety.

What courage to stand in the midst of religious and societal persecution of the LGBT community! I applaud you!

Susan,
Dearie you seem to need liberation from reality as you are uncomfortable with the Penatuch, the Decagram and Psalms 94. Sodomites have severe deficiencies in understanding what goes where and why. Their abnormal secretions of gamma-aminobutyric acids in their feeble nucleus accumbens septi have an abundance of neurotic synapsis. They have learned this from your kind and the vile rubbish you preach.
Repent for the Kingdom is at hand you sweet little licker of the annals of travesty.
Veritas numquam perit,
Musa Ali

Rev. Sue,
I absolutely loved your On Faith piece today. I think you clearly articulated the ongoing struggle of sexuality in the church today. And that just shouldn't be. God gave us these beautiful gifts of sexuality and love making and we seek in so many ways to make them dirty and shameful, whether we are addressing issues of gay or straight sex. So sexuality is not just a church problem, it's a societal one. We simply have too many sexual hang ups and insecurities. And to be honest, I think it's more an American problem than anything else. Our puritanical approach does not always translate abroad. The truly scary thing is that we pass our insecurities and prejudices about sex, sexuality and love on to our children. And then they will pass it on to theirs and it will become a generational disease. So the way I see it, LOVE is so rare, so amorphous and so fleeting and life altering, wherever you find it, you should hold on and never let go--gay or straight, young or old, black or white. So who cares if someone is gay? It's that love that is important and sustaining. I don't know if that is biblical, but I can't see the God I worship getting angry about a love that is enduring.

God definitely states that HE created all people equal but that any sin that seperates HIMSELF from his creation, MAN, cannot be tolerated. Whether it is a lie, stealing, or murder, it seperates MAN from GOD. Homosexuality is the same in God's eyes. Rev. SMith, you need to read scripture and not your own press clippings.

Many churches within the United Church of Christ are leaving by the droves because of their perversion of scripture in this area. The word of God cannot be any more specific than to repeatedly state in the Old and New Testaments that God finds homosexuality an abomination. This woman who calls herself a minister is dillusional if she really believes that God feels otherwise.
I think she needs to read about the God whom she claims to worship.

One of the things about God that we dare not forget, along with his being loving, is that He is Holy. This is mentioned throughout the Bible much more often than his love. He is loving in that He made a way to forgive and overcome sin instead of allowing it to lead us into hell. The Old Testament tells us of many things that were considered sin. It was a way that God used to show us that He was Holy and that we could never keep all of the Laws. So we needed a Savior. Which He, in his great love, provided. The area of disagreement comes when we don't see sins as God sees them. And throughout the old and new testament homosexuality is sin and so is gluttony and drunkenness. And many would be quick to say that they were born over-eaters or alcoholics. But, no matter what the proclivity, these things are still sin in God's eyes, just as much as homosexuality. So why did God make me this way? Is it possible that He wanted to show each of us and the world his power to change lives and overcome even the most tenacious sins? We do no one a truly loving service by holding back the truth and calling it "love". True love is tough to take, just like medicine, but it allows God to empower change.

STEVE80 "The Bible states on numerous occasions that homosexuality is wrong (yet incest and fratricide is a-ok apparently)."

The bible says that incest is wrong in the exact same chapter that it is says that homosexuality is wrong.

Reguardless, the whole issue gets resolved if in the eyes of the government there is no marriage, or marriage certificates, only civil unions. Marriage is a relgious institution, and Christians will never give in to homosexuals on this issue. Civil unions are through the state, and through the seperation of church and state every citizen is guarenteed equal protection under the law.

All rational christians understand that the universe wasnt created in 6 days, and that moses didnt part the red sea with his staff. The bible is a model for how to live your life. If you don't steal, murder, lie, lust, and if you generally just treating everyone the way you would like to be treated, you end up having a happy life. That being said, I am not required to approve of your behavior.

From a religious stand point, gay marriage is out of the question and wrong. It is very clear in the bible that Christians are against homosexual behavior. People, especially this Miller character from Newsweek, make themselves look extremely foolish when they try to use a source they clearly dont understand, to make a point they dont know how to make.

The issue of gay marriage is not to be approached from a religious point of view.

Legally it is much harder to make the case against gay marriage. Legally, there is no reason why any two people can not enter into a CIVIL UNION. In my opinion, marriage, in the legal sense is a civl union, and is nothing more than a tax loophole. The government crossed a line when it started messing with a religious practice. If a man and woman can go down to a court house and get married, reguardless of their relationship and solely to take advantage of the tax benefits, then there is no reason why two men or two women can't do the same thing. Just dont call it a marriage.

The sooner homosexuals get over being part of the institution of marriage, the sooner they'll gets the same rights that should exist in a civil union.

So Many people are trying to rationalize how they feel about religion. Some believe everyone is going to Heaven, and others don't. Matthew 7:21 says that "not everyone that saith to me Lord Lord shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven". The reality is this, if we want to see God in peace, we need to show him that we appreciate the sacrifice his Only begotten Son made for us!!

Jesus Christ died so that we can have a chance to recieve eternal life. We can only recieve eternal life by obeying the "Commandsments of God". He never said it would always make sense, just that if we are obedient unto death that we will recieve a crown of life that fadeth not away.

Be Blessed and Be Serious, your life depends on it.

Here's a thought- maybe we should quit trying to make flimsy excuses for all the stuff in the bible that makes us feel uncomfortable and just see it for the quaint, antiquated manuscript that it is. Buffet-style religion indeed.

The Bible states on numerous occasions that homosexuality is wrong (yet incest and fratricide is a-ok apparently). Now, the bible may be illogical and wrong, but that's a problem with your bible, not with homosexuals, and the sooner Christians admit that the better off we'll all be.

To judyterry and charlesbakerharris

OK then. So you also belong to a church where you keep the sabbath biblically? Does your pastor rail against the sin of eating pork or shellfish? Do you attempt to stone anyone you see wearing a poly-cotton blend?

Posts like yours are prime examples of what's still wrong with segments of the modern Christian church. You're perfectly willing to cherry pick the bible for the passages that support your own prejudices and sense of moral superiority, but ignore those that you yourself decide are outdated or inconvenient.

Look, we're all sinners in God's eyes. As an earlier poster said, we should all look upon our day of judgment with dread and shame. Only through grace will we be saved. But that grace is not found in the old testament. It should be obvious that the entire point of the new testament was a re-examination of the relationship between God and his flawed creation. What part of 'new covenant' do you not understand?

Christ healed on the sabbath. He consorted with lepers. He prevented a old-testament mandated murder. He consistently rejected the taboos, authorities, and prejudices of the Church of His day. There was a clear message in all of those actions, and I'm pretty darn sure that it WASN'T that we should be using biblical passages to sow division, foster hatred, and deny love.

Personally, it is inconceivable to me that anyone who truly knows Christ in their heart would believe Him capable of railing against love between His people, regardless of its form. Moreover, I can't see the path to Christ that doesn't include the same acceptance.

So, you're free to claim I and my congregation are not 'real' Christians because we don't choose to follow your path of division and self righteousness. It may even make you feel better about yourself to say it. However, it won't make it true, and it won't place your soul any closer to God. Quite the opposite it seems to me.

"That's step one of this argument. God made gay people, like God made everyone else. Gay people prefer people of the same sex, so if God made them that way, then that was God's choice."

Rev. Smith, would you also argue that because God made an abuser that way, or a kleptomaniac that way, or a pathological liar that way, that their behavior was what God chose and therefore it is moral?

Re Mary: That she was pregnant by the Holy Spirit means that God had an extra-special relationship with her. Marriage is for two *people*--God can do whatever he wills; human marriage is not something God needs. The mystery of the Incarnation is at a much different level than a marriage between two people. When Mary did finally marry another human being, she was still a virgin--your point makes no sense.

Rev. Sue

What a great write!! And an even greater read! I'm so thankful for the opportunity to worship, learn, grow and enhance my relationship with my creator under your leadership. One of the main reasons I stopped going to church and associating with the faith was because of the sexuality issue. Your deeds and efforts have been in total support of "right relations" with the creator regardless! I appreciate this point of view...Thank You

Just my thoughts...Just my thoughts

Who dare question the spiritual union between two people ? The Church somehow makes that Union official ? In my experience, starting back in the JFK days, sectism and creedalism demanded that Catholics marry Catholics, Jews marry Jews and Protestants well, Protestants were ok if they were "Born Again" (those alter calls were scary).

It is my opinion that traditionally the "rules" of the Church are used as basis for Civil Unions with rejection of certain discriminations caused by sectism and creedalism within common demoninations of the modern American Church Societies. Our history shows Catholic and Jew get hitched in Civil Ceremonies which respect the individual's rights to freedom in this country. Local and State courts are then able to uphold certain Constitutional standards of our societies ignored by dogma. Freedom of love to flurish then becomes protected by local and state governments.

Families on their own may try to desuade certain unions and so the concept of eloping through civil unions became very popular. Running out of state to get married in a day runs in my family. Who is to say if those unions are blessed or not ? My parents eloped and then remained married to one another for the rest of their lives over some 40 years I think. I would say that their union was in fact blessed with or without a church. Theirs was a spiritual union made official through a civil court. If we were all so lucky but then again, this ain't Hollywood, is it ?

After mom passed away dad found a new mate. He called me on the phone one day and said laughingly, "We are living in sin. How about going to the Courthouse with us ?". I witnessed a very fine Civil Union that day too. Ya just never know, do ya ?

Dear Rev Sue

Tony Campolo wrote a book over two decades "Twenty Hot Potatoes" The Chuch Is Afraid To Touch." (I belive I am remembering the title correctly after 20 years. He was saying the same thing you say so powerfully. The church cannot deal with HOMOsexuality because the church can't deal wirh sexuality!

Thank you for tackling such a difficult topic. Of course, most people who read your article are already convinced to "take sides" on the issue based on their made up minds. That is sad.

Wow! I love this blog because--often, but not always--there are well-thought arguments representing contrasting positions. Such is the case here.

The bottom line: in a secular society such as these United States, the right to marry and enjoy the benefits (and miseries!) of marriage should not be denied persons because of any (perceived) religious pronouncements.

We who define ourselves as Christians would do well to 1) Study to show ourselves approved, as Paul admonished (2 Tim 2:15); and, 2) to work our OWN salvation, in humility to God.

Yes, if you believe that God made gay people. This assumption however flies in the face of the evidence of anthropology. "In fact, anthropologists have found huge variations in heterosexual and homosexual practice from culture to culture, and such sudden changes in sexual practice and orientation, even over a single generation, that they mostly want to say that all sexual behavior is learned." Dr. Neil Whitehead and Briar Whitehead, "My Genes Made Me do It - a scientific look at sexual orientation".

Ugh, it's incredible that anyone finds this tripe interesting.

God loves all of us, yes. He also commands us to love. Then he devotes huge swaths of Scripture to defining love - and it's not just a warm fuzzy feeling that makes us give nickels to homeless people. It's more complicated than that, and it includes obedience to God (If you love me, keep my commandments). There are also huge portions of Scripture devoted to God's disgust with willing sinfulness - of people and of entire nations. But maybe your UCC wishy-washiness omits the 3/4 of the Bible that discusses those things because they don't fit with your view of who God should be - real Christianity is not so arrogant as to think that we get to choose God's attributes. Rather, we try to learn about them, understand them, emulate them, and obey them. We don't always succeed, but at least we try.

Ms. Smith, please stop writing. Your facile, skin-deep analyses misrepresent Christians everywhere, and foment intolerance and misunderstanding among non-Christians.

The claims that David and Jonathan, Ruth and Naomi, or Paul and Timothy were sexually involved are as fatuous as the claims that Sam and Frodo, Jack Aubrey and Steven Maturin, etc. were. It results, perhaps, from a hypersexualized mind that imposes a wish on the text that would be, in some ways, "convenient" if it were actually there.

The Bible is against homosexuality (see Robert Gagnon's work on the matter, for instance), and we cannot overrule God's ethics in the name of "love" or anything else. Genuine love does not approve of or ignore sin (think of a parent trying to keep their kid of drugs), though it should tolerate it at times.

(This is quite a different argument, I should note, from whether the US should allow gay unions/marriage, which I think should be decided by the elected representatives or by referendum and peaceably accepted by all regardless of the outcome -- I speak more the Christians than not here.)

As for the naive "picking and choosing" argument of "Proposition 8: The Musical", "The West Wing", and the email-forward which they both apparently cribbed, see the various answers available (e.g., http://thirdmill.org/answers/answer.asp/file/99757.qna/category/ot/page/questions/site/iiim ). Similar arguments apply to polygamy.

Dr. Smith,

Thank you for your comprehensive article!

I read an interesting book recently and it was about ways the church hurt people and contribute to there suffering.

The very last page of the book negated the purpose of the entire peice. Thereby, adding to the battering and abuse churches inflict upon its gay members.

The author wrote a prayer and I will summarize to make my point, "I want to experience communion with you. I am opening the door of my wound and removing the many bandages so that Your Spirit can breathe on me, heal me, and set me free. Breath on my wounds! I am calling out wounds from ....failed relationships, divorce, adultery, fornication, envy .... homosexuality, ... I am making myself available to You, God, to deliver and use me for Your glory. Here I am. Heal me. In your name, Jesus. Amen!"

In the writers opinion, homosexuality is a lifestyle that God made and now frowns upon; and therefore, you should ask God for deliverance. Why would anyone desire marriage if ..... adultery, fornication, failed relationships, and, I add, quick Gatlinburg or Las Vegas impulsive ceremonies are descriptors of heterosexual marriages? She certainly is not describing same gender loving people in long-term relationships.

Thank you again for offering clarity!

Judyterry.

You said. “People think everything goes, all they have to say is that god is an ever loving god”.

I think this is an oversimplification of new age views on sin, judgment and relative morality. I’m not saying that the new age views on this are completely accurate because it’s all a work in progress in my mind. To me the thinking is more logical than a wrong belief or unrepentant sin will send someone to hell for eternity. Forget the other religions the interpretation of Christianity alone reads like the menu at Ben and Jerry’s so how is a person to truly know? To hang a soul out to dry when all physical reality and evidence points against the existence of God seems peculiar at best. Why grow, we learn, we die and we learn more. Eternal damnation is an unjust punishment from a truly loving God which is why I side with the new age view.

New age thinking is more about relativity than absolutes which is not to say anything goes. If I live in KC and I want to go to NY what purpose does it serve to head towards LA? If one’s goal is to be content, happy, in love, at peace, approach Christ consciousness, nirvana what ever you want to call it then why for instance one could engage in adultery. If you goal is happiness or love the chances of obtaining that by continually cheating are small. If one is enlightened then adultery would not be an option, neither would be killing, stealing, lying. To me sin is more a measuring stick to see how spiritually advanced you are versus rules being enforced by the eternal hall monitor.

God should be like everything else we try to understand; we contemplate, use our imagination and personal observation to formulate better theories and understanding on God and what he/she/it could be. We are a work in progress and to stand still and think we are not is counter productive. This is what religion tends to do.

It’s not about being Christian, Buddhist, atheist, Hindu or Wiccan. Under the covers we are all one.

People think everything goes, all they have to say is that god is an ever loving god,yes we are all gods children providing we do as he asks, if we dont, then we are not of him, as the scriptures say and will be eternally damnated.
If you don't want to follow the scriptures that's fine, but stop calling yourselves christians to try and appease yourselves.
Adam was formed from sand and Eve of his rib he did not form Adam and Bill to go forth and multiply.Why gays need to shanghi the word marriage is beyound me, if the want a commitment of union to live together for legal perposes o.k.but
please stop using this catch fraze an ever loving god, he is (only if you abide by his word)start your own church up but please stop calling yourselves christians if you dont follow the bible.

Thanks for the article, Dr. Smith. Question: does God speak the words "gay" and "straight"? The biologist and the psychologist may use such terminology, but I'm not so sure such language is available to the theologian. Where would the theologian get such vocabulary? From the scriptures? Or does real authority lie elsewhere?

In your article, there seems to be the assumption that the presence of phenomena (like erotic desire) is an indicator of identity and of God's purpose. Is sickle-cell anemia (an inherited trait) part of God's purpose? Spina bifida? Cystic fibrosis?

There most certainly has been a pastoral failure in the church with regards to this issue, like so many other pastoral failures over the past 2000 years. And for this there needs to be a large scale sustained repentance and humility. If God does speak the words "gay" and "straight", then the church needs to learn those words. But it needs to be on better authority than what you have provided in your article. Theology is not sustained by mood or cultural currents, or hurt feelings, or biology or psychology for that matter. Theology is sustained by what God says and does. And therefore this conversation must interact with the symbolic world of the scripture (as Barth put it, the "Strange World within the Bible"). It's a much better place to start than a so-called split between God and religion.

Rev. Dr. Smith, thank you so much for this wonderful post. Christians everywhere should reject the notion that homosexuality is a sin--to proclaim otherwise is to reject God's divinity in each and every person God creates. God does, indeed, hate sin, but it does not stand to reason that God hates people who acknowledge the way God truly made them and wish to commit themselves to an affirming, loving partnership in marriage. God is love, and where there is love, there is God. As much as some "Christians" may hate the idea, I believe it is safe to say that God is at work in committed gay relationships and is blessing them.

ForgetThis, the "God created thieves" theory is a obviously terrible comparison. Homosexuality is not defined by an act, but by an orientation from birth. Even if we did define homosexuality by an act, are you really going to say to someone's face that LOVING someone of the same sex is in any way akin to STEALING? I didn't think so.

Hey all of you!

What part of Gen. 19:5, or Lev. 20:13, or Deut,23:17, or Isa. 3:9, or Rom. 1:27, or 1 Cor. 6:9, or 1 Tim. 1:10, or Jude. 1:7 do you not understand?

It is rather clear to me what God thinks about it.
His position has not changed from "day 1".
Who are we to argue with him?

Mark

Dr. Smith seems to doing the same thing she negatively attributes to others...."to put itself ahead of God and the principles of God it, religion, had taught us." The arguement that God provided rules and defined sin does not negate that God loves us. God provided those rules to mankind BECAUSE He loves us and doesn't want to see us do things that harm us. This being said, God DOES love all mankind...gay and straight. BUT, He also hates sin and has provided penalties for it. The Apostle Paul spent quit a bit of space in the New Testament talking about "cheap grace." And to claim that gay marriages are acceptable to God because Jesus Christ paid the penalty for sin is attributing cheap grace to the institution of marriage as God instituted it. And yes, God created man and woman and provided them the capability to procreate. From there, He allowed mankind to do the rest.....He doesn't take an active hand in the creation of each human being since Adam & Eve.

Yes, you can make a religious argument for gay marriage, but it would not be based on Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. God made all people, yes. But saying God made gay people (which is defining a person by an action) is the same as saying God made the person and then he made the person commit certain actions. Is that what you mean to say? It's like saying God made thieves. Yes he did. So what's the point? Is stealing now a good thing? Should we not punish theft in the court of law because God made the thief and loves him (which He really does)? Please clarify.

Dr Smith,

So true,the focus is the characterization of the sex act. People have been beat up for years over their sexuality. Often times people are force into hiding their sexuality for so many years causing so much stress on the person hiding and making them feel not worthy of gods love,paranoid of other people's judgment and the person never truly lives life authentically under these conditions. Some folks become bitter and turn away from the church and God; while others live reclusive secret lives away from the world and their judgments. Some people deserve academy awards for the lead actor or actress portraying a straight person in society, often times hurting some one else of the opposite sex who may genuinely feelings toward them. The actor or actress can lose who they really are playing a role for so long. Everyone should be able to be who they are. I'm not saying that a person should run down the church aisle with a rainbow flag waving I'm gay but we are all Gods children's and should be able to feel loved regardless of ones sexuality. God didn't make any mistakes and we are created in his own image. No one deserves harsh judgment by others. Because if all of the lights were turn on in everyone closet, then I'm sure the judgmental religious types would place those stones they've been casting right back on the ground.

I've never understood how people could simultaneously believe that their god was omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent and yet wanted them to condemn and/or outright abuse people who were simply behaving the way god made them.

An all-powerful and all-knowing creator would by definition be directly responsible for every aspect of a person's being, so how could he be opposed to that being.

Thy rod and thy staff. When I read the Bible, I see many stories of God's love for me ultimately expressed in sending his son to die for my sins.

The Bible also reminds me of God's righteousness and the fact that ultimately I will be judged. I don't look forward to that judgement. I have faith that I will survive it only because of Christ's sacrifice. I am a sinner, saved by grace.

Many Christians fall off the narrow path by becoming legalistic or licentious.

Legal Christians are wrong because they don't realize we are saved by grace, not by our works. They are like the field workers, hired in the morning, who complain that the half-day workers received the same pay. Works are important because they are an outward expression of what is in our heart. If works are done to impress others, or to earn a reward on Earth, that is all the reward you will get.

License Christians are wrong because they think that because I have accepted Christ, I can do anything I want. They ignore sin. They do a disservice to sinners because God wants us to recognize our sin and our need for a savior. We may feel we are helping sinners by accepting them and telling them God is love. In the light of eternity, however, we are misleading them in a terrible way.

Am I perfect? No, far from it.

Is sin confined to homosexual activity? No, I am sinning when I watch a beer commercial and see the girls as something other than sisters. Nor is it confined to sexual activity. I am sinning when I react angrily to someone cutting me off on the freeway. We are judged against God's standard. We don't help anyone by trying to lower the standard for them. We help them by letting them know there is a standard, which we all fall short of, and showing them the way God provided to stand before him blameless.

Thank you Reverend Smith......so let's be frank....if the problem is sex, then what is it exactly about sex between same sex couples as opposed to sex between heterosexual people?? Are we to believe that straight couples never engage in anal sex....or oral sex????? Are we to believe that straight men never ask their female partners to engage in a little of this and that??? Give me a break!!!! What hypocrites...yes, God made us all. People need to remember that....

I think two things are true. God will judge us based on our faithfulness to him, and sin exists in the world. The logical conclusion is that not all behaviors acceptable. The God versus religion is just a way to argue over the behaviors. I believe in a "loving, and kind and merciful and forgiving" God, but also one who will judge each of us. Someone who insists their sinful behavior is ok, wont be forgiven. Thats the problem and issue with gay behavior.

There is no difference between heterosexual activity and homosexual activity. That wide stance sting that Larry Craig got caught up in happens all the time in bathrooms between men and women.

"But somewhere along the line, religion decided to put itself ahead of God and the principles of God it, religion, had taught us. When that separation occured, humans took the place of God and began to make human decisions, but attributing them to God."

That is exactly what every religion does - all the time. Since religion is only in our heads.

Hey Rev Sue!

You handled the ultimate hot church potato today! I believe that we fail every time we try to help God out or decide who God does not like. You raised some interesting point about the Bible seeming to be somewhat neutral on the sanctity of marriage with the virgin Mary--not that is a subtlety, although someone might still say that she was intended for Joseph. Sexuality and our getting riled about it, seems to run circuit in church. I remember the movie American Beauty which lifted the paradox and reality that some of us really do, protesteth too much. It turned out that the most vocal and viral of people in that movie turned out to be what he hated most in his own son--homosexuality and when found "out," pardon the pun, he committed suicide.

Your visit to the church in Dallas must have been life-altering for you. How can an all-loving God hate people that we arbitrarily assign the status of abomination--who died and named us God??? Reality shows us daily that heterosexuality is not the norm as it claims to be. When normativity claims squatter's rights on reality and truth, homophobia, racism, classicim, and all biased others run rampant. I believe that you have challenged us to move from local myopia to embrace global seeing and being with all of God's people. Perhaps president-elect Obama's notions of inclusivity and use of terms such as human race versus colors of race and United States versus red and blue states, will help to dissolve the walls of exclusivity, sexuality-hating, and biblical tyranny. Thanks for the insight and discussion.