Bin Laden's Problem: Obama IS the Message to the Muslim World

Clarification, if needed, of the preceding post:

By "he," I do not mean Obama.

"Correct on all accounts. I would add, moreover, that unlike OldAtlantic, Obama does not recite Arabic to Tariq Al-Hashimi of the Iraq Islamic party although he tries to emulate Al-Hashimi, his prophet, in his assaults against the human."

oldatlantic writes:

"This is an abstract idea about the nature of God. Moreover, Obama was not raised as Jewish and didn't recite Hebrew to Kristof of the New York Times and didn't put this verse on his webpage."

Correct on all accounts. I would add, moreover, that unlike OldAtlantic, Obama does not recite Arabic to Tariq Al-Hashimi of the Iraq Islamic party although he tries to emulate Al-Hashimi, his prophet, in his assaults against the human.

I meant to say 'and too damn smart to let on.'

Just a small point. I just saw a clip on CNN of Obama on the campaign trail telling folks his father was an agnostic.
In his speech today he did not contradict that. Today he said that his African family came from a long line of Muslims.(Or words to that effect). I have a sneaking feeling he's too much of a skeptic to buy into the skyfairy hypothesis, and just too damn smart.

How to free yourself from the Three B Syndrome of Islam (i.e. Bred, Born and Brainwashed)

Are you ready?

Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

"1. Belief in Allah"

"aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc." should be added to your cleansing neurons.

"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gib Gnab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "creationist".

"3. To believe in the existence of angels."

A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/devils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hittites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ugly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as fairies and "tinker bells". Modern devils are classified as the demons of the demented.

"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."
Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels/"pwtfft"s to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the uneducated masses in line. Today we call them fortune tellers.
Prophecies are also invalidated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

Mohammed spent thirty days fasting in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic violence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallucinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

Accept these five "cleansers" and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

iamweaver | June 3, 2009 11:32 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shema_Yisrael

"The first verse encapsulates the monotheistic essence of Judaism: "Hear, O Israel: the Lord is our God, the Lord is One." The Shema is considered the most important prayer in Judaism, and its twice-daily recitation is a mitzvah (religious commandment)."

This is an abstract idea about the nature of God. Moreover, Obama was not raised as Jewish and didn't recite Hebrew to Kristof of the New York Times and didn't put this verse on his webpage.

In the Koran, the conversion of Ibrahim is a critical event. The webpage I referenced, which I repeat here for convenience indicates that this critical verse of the Koran is the one to recite to indicate you are still a Muslim or to become one.

==
http://www.submission.org/convert.html

“How to Become a Muslim”

This verse is used on the page How to Become a Muslim.

So here we have it. When God showed Abraham the perfect religion, He commanded Abraham to Submit (”Aslimu”) and Abraham said “Aslamtu li rabbil aalameen”. This is how MUSLIMS (or converts) should attest their faith (or to convert);

“I SUBMIT TO THE LORD OF THE WORLDS”
==

Obama attended Mosque. He knew this is the single verse that is the means to attest that he is still a Muslim.

==Obama webpage

I felt I heard God’s spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth and carrying out His works.” [Speech, 6/23/07]

Obama is giving a formulation very close to the critical verse of the Koran used to attest he is still a Muslim. Is it intentional? Obama is touring the Muslim world telling them how he was raised in a Muslim country and is pushing the message that he is wise in their ways.

The formulation he uses to attest his faith is a key verse in the Koran used to attest being a Muslim. Its not a random verse. Picking verses from the Bible that are close but don't have the functional usage of this verse is Bible verse mining. Obama chose the formulation of attesting his faith that corresponds to the Koranic version, not to Christianity.

iamweaver,
are you really missing the point? OldAtlantic thinks obama is a stealth muslim.

Our War on Terror and Aggression:

An update (or how we are spending or how we have spent the USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate global terror and aggression)

The terror and aggression via a Partial and Recent Body Count

1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops, 3,440 KIA, 846 non-hostile) and 91,843 – 100,263 Iraqi civilians killed, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

continued below:

Other elements of our War on Terror and Aggression:

- Saddam, his sons and major henchmen have been deleted. Saddam's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes.

- Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

- Libya has become almost civil. Recently Libya agreed to pay $1.5 billion to the victims of their terrorist activities Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “crazies” as they have threatened Libya. OBL sure is a disgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!! Or is he???

- North Korea is still uncivil but is contained. With the opening up of rail traffic between North and South Korea after 50 years and with the assistance of the US Navy in retrieving NK ships and personnel hopefully a fresh sense of civility is afoot.

- North Korea was taken off the terrorist country list recently.

- Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

- The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords. Unfortunately the Annapolis Peace Conference was not successful. Unfortunately the recent events in Gaza has put this situation back to “square one”. And this significant stupidity is driven by the mythical foundations of both religions!!!

- Bin Laden has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

- Fanatical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghanhistan and Pakistan.

- Timothy McVeigh was executed. Terry Nichols will follow soon.

- Eric Rudolph is spending three life terms in prison with no parole.

- Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.

- Islamic Sudan, Darfur and Somalia are still terror hot spots.

- The terror and torture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends. Radovan Karadzic was finally captured on 7/23/08 and is charged with genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the law of war -- charges related to the 1992-1995 civil war that followed Bosnia-Herzegovina's secession from Yugoslavia.

- And of course the bloody terror brought about the Japanese, Nazis and Communists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.

I guess I am missing your point, OldAtlantic. All three Abrahamic faiths require its participants to be subservient to God. It's *the* central tenant of all 3 faiths.Look up the "Shema", and check out both the original version in the Torah, and the complementary one in the New Testament for Christians.

Obama's statement is no different from that that I use to describe my conversion to Christianity - or to that that is held as the tenant of most Christians that I know, and if it reads in a similar fashion to that found somewhere in the Koran, I'm not all that surprised. Notice that his statement is not actually the same as that you quoted from the Koran - grammatically, thematically, or literally. He uses different words, and the central point of the Muslim scripture that you quoted is only one element in his quote. In my opinion, you're making a mountain out of a molehill. If you search enough, I am sure that you can find quotes from him that match up so something in the Vedas too - does that "prove" that he's Hindi?

Hope this doesn't post twice, but my post disappeared when I submitted it.

OldAtlantic:

"Surrender yourself to the LORD, and wait patiently for him." Psalm 37:7.

All 3 Abrahamic faiths hold to this philosophy.

Posted by: iamweaver | June 3, 2009 3:12 PM

Psalm 37:7 is how you convert to Christianity? Or are you saying Obama is Jewish?

Obama chose the formulation that the Muslim website is exactly the words that mean you are still a Muslim. Obama was raised a Muslim and attended mosque as a Muslim. How many Christians or converts to Judaism say that reciting Psalm 37:7 is what they said to signify they were Christian or Jewish? Has anyone recited that verse to signify that they had converted or remained Christian or Jewish?

The meaning of the world Islam is submission. Search Islam submission:

Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Islamic theology says that all of God's messengers since Adam preached the message of Islam — submission to the will of God. Islam is described in the ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

OldAtlantic:

"Surrender yourself to the LORD, and wait patiently for him." Psalm 37:7.

All 3 Abrahamic faiths hold to this philosophy.

Posted by: iamweaver | June 3, 2009 3:12 PM

Psalm 37:7 is how you convert to Christianity? Or are you saying Obama is Jewish?

Obama chose the formulation that the Muslim website is exactly the words that mean you are still a Muslim. Obama was raised a Muslim and attended mosque as a Muslim. How many Christians or converts to Judaism say that reciting Psalm 37:7 is what they said to signify they were Christian or Jewish? Has anyone recited that verse to signify that they had converted or remained Christian or Jewish?

The meaning of the world Islam is submission. Search Islam submission:

Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Islamic theology says that all of God's messengers since Adam preached the message of Islam — submission to the will of God. Islam is described in the ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

Clinton left office doing nothing about the attack on the naval vessel,Cole, and did nothing about the the first World Trade Center bombing. Bush was in office for a few months before 9/11; to hold him responsible is ludicrous.
Obama's mother was an athetist and his father a Muslim.He sat in his church and heard hate spewed from the pulpit and never renounced it. With leadership from this philosophical background,our country is doomed.

"The danger, I think, is when the United States, or any country, thinks that we can simply impose these values on another country with a different history and a different culture."

This is how President Obama, in a BBC interview preceding this week's trip to the Middle East and Europe, described his vision of Middle East diplomacy. Unfortunately, there is a double standard being applied.

No country has a more unusual history than that of the modern Jewish state — a nation of refugees that was born in the aftermath of Nazi genocide. Shouldn't the U.S. be encouraging Muslim nations, not to mention our allies in Europe, to be more understanding of the settlements in the West Bank, the result of the natural growth of Jewish settler families?

Instead, the new administration is taking a not-an-inch approach with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Israeli government in regard to where Israelis may live. The U.S. is now more interested in making some unlikely, historic breakthrough with the Muslim world than supporting the one Mideast country that fully shares our values — and can help neutralize Iran's global nuclear threat.

The president's forthcoming speech in Egypt this week is designed to clear up "misapprehensions about the West on the part of the Muslim world," he told the BBC. "And, obviously, there are some big misapprehensions about the Muslim world when it comes to those of us in the West."

But jihadists such as those who run Iran and the terrorist organizations they sponsor — Hamas and Hezbollah, to name just two — have no misapprehensions about the West at all. The more they learn of us, the more they want to destroy us.

Why is it that the noun "pride" is so often used by KKKristans? Don't they know that their own adopted Hebrew mythology (the "old testament") clearly states that pride goes before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall?

I honestly believe that a cosmopolitan, highly educated sophisticate such as Pres Obama has long since seen the fallacy that is religion and along with the other stipulations he has had to make to get elected in a nation which could not elect a "non-believer" he considers this a price he must pay "to play".

Let us enjoy whatever measure of goodwill, peace and tranquility currently exist among mankind for it is not going to last. Mark my words. Some members of either the radical religious fanatic groups or the diehard right wing Republican Party are going to cause all of this goodwill, peace and tranquility to go up in flames by causing some kind of serious trouble that will dangerously cause a war or something very close to war involving the US. This is not my prayer; it is what anyone who has any sense of the past can and should expect. Neither the religious fanatics nor the diehard right wing Republicans believe in peace on this earth and goodwill among mankind. They believe in a world in which individuals, groups and/or nations are constantly at war with each other. To them peaceful coexistence is for the faint at heart, unless and until they have fully succeeded in imposing their will and way on the rest of us.

The strategy of the new administration looks a lot like the course the Clinton administration set us on before Sept. 11, 2001
___________________________________________

Bush and Cheney let Sept 11th happend as they were incompetent.

Bush never read the National Security Briefings and kept cutting his shrubs in Texas.

Clinton warned this country about the impending danger of terrorism right before new year 2000 and nothing happened.

Bush ignored the terrorist warning before Sept 11th. On top of that they failed to protect us while hajacked planes flew over our skies for HOURS.

What do Osama bin Laden and the right wing of the Republican Party have in common? They are preaching the same nonsense against President Obama.

President Obama gives a rather pure dose of Christianity to the world. When Jesus said to love your enemies, He did not say love your enemies by being mean and using "tough" language.

The garbage being dished out by the likes of Mitt Romney will get us nowhere in the world of influence. Mean and tough sounding speech is the last thing that we need. Also, to mischaracterize Obama's words is a diservice not only to him but also to the country. When Obama says that America has made mistakes, he speaks with truth. It offers a form of humilty that has not been heard in our politics in many years. It is not a sign of weakness. But then, the Bible says that God's ways are not our ways. When one of God's children tries to do God's will as revealed in the Bible, why do many of us try to tear him apart? It just goes to show how much politics and religion do not seem to mix.

The rightwing, and especially the religious right, need to rethink their position. There is much more to life than arguing over abortion, gay rights, and so forth.

At least, to his credit, President Obama is not an evangelical hypocrite who thinks he is right and everybody else is wrong.

OldAtlantic:

"Surrender yourself to the LORD, and wait patiently for him." Psalm 37:7.

All 3 Abrahamic faiths hold to this philosophy.

What problem? Israel and the USA are playing good policeman, bad policeman and the result will be the annexation of the land allready "secured" by the annexation wall including Easter Jerusalem. This is perfectly unacceptable and Usama speaks it out.

Obama's webpage uses words from Koran that mean he is still a Muslim.

==Obama Webpage

http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/11/12/obama_has_never_been_a_muslim_1.php

Obama Has Never Been A Muslim, And Is a Committed Christian

…

I felt I heard God’s spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth and carrying out His works.” [Speech, 6/23/07]

==

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html

The following verse is from the Quran Chapter (Surah) 2, “The Cow” or Al-Baqara (also al-Baqarah).

The same verse in parallel translations:

002.131
YUSUFALI: Behold! his Lord said to him: “Bow (thy will to Me):” He said: “I bow (my will) to the Lord and Cherisher of the Universe.”
PICKTHAL: When his Lord said unto him: Surrender! he said: I have surrendered to the Lord of the Worlds.
SHAKIR: When his Lord said to him, Be a Muslim, he said: I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds.

==

http://www.submission.org/convert.html

“How to Become a Muslim”

This verse is used on the page How to Become a Muslim.

So here we have it. When God showed Abraham the perfect religion, He commanded Abraham to Submit (”Aslimu”) and Abraham said “Aslamtu li rabbil aalameen”. This is how MUSLIMS (or converts) should attest their faith (or to convert);

“I SUBMIT TO THE LORD OF THE WORLDS”

==

Muslims think Obama is a Muslim because Obama uses words from Koran on his webpage that mean he is still a Muslim. Obama recited the Call to Prayers to Kristof in Arabic. Ask Kristof to release the tape.

The strategy of the new administration looks a lot like the course the Clinton administration set us on before Sept. 11, 2001. And we know how that turned out: Clinton relied on prosecutors to fight terrorists, mistakenly treating terrorism as random crime rather than the grave national security threat that it is.

After each al-Qaida attack that occurred on his watch, Clinton dispatched FBI agents and lawyers overseas to collect evidence. This simply bought Osama bin Laden and his henchmen more time to launch their "Big Bang," as counterterrorism officials call 9/11.

With each passing month, the Obama administration seems to backslide deeper into a dangerous pre-9/11 mentality that puts the nation at increasing risk of attack.

Extremist Muslims believe Obama is Christian

Extremist Christians believe he is Muslim

Among rest of the moderate populations, Christians believe he is Christian, Muslims belive he is Muslims. Moderates just want to live in peace and they have adopted Obama as their symbol. All moderates pray that Obama is successful.

You mention: "...this new audiotape, purportedly from bin Laden himself (who has not actually been seen in years..." If the NEW AUDIO MESSAGE can be found and distributed in a timely fashion, why can't the world's intelligence forces and CIA find THE MESSENGER??? Having seen mere petty and not-so-petty criminals found all over the world and brought back to countries to face prosecutions, WHY can't the most despised be found???

I also hope that Obama's speach will root out all groups and governments that are hidden problems.

- Saudi Arabia (Muslims)

- Israel (Jews)

- Russia (Orthodox Christians)

- Denmark (Christians)

- India (Hindus)

You see problems come from all of us, but I am sure we can blame it on each other, because our wrong is also our right. That is how we all think.

I wanna hear Obama asking all Muslims to stand together and speak all together against Al-Qaeda and all Islamic organizations that would support killing America and Americans and other Christians or Jews. I also wanna hear Obama pledging not attacking and creating hostile diplomacy on behalf of USA politicians. But the main thing probably Muslims wanna hear is that Obama will not support Israel, but that is impossible. I am sure they will be happy if they hear that Palestinians will be treated equaly and let them ellect their government they beleive is good for them even if Israel thinks its just terrorist organizations. If Palestinians are ignored, Obama will fail whatever connection he would achieve in this message to Muslims. Good luck to him and may God lead him and all of us on the good and safe road.

Until the autobiography of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Infidel, is allowed to be read by all Muslims, there will be no peace with orthodox Islamics. (Hopefully BO read the book before his trip.)

Some excerpts from said book:

"Thus begins the extraordinary story of a woman born into a family of desert nomads, circumcised as a child, educated by radical imams in Kenya and Saudi Arabia, taught to believe that if she uncovered her hair, terrible tragedies would ensue. It's a story that, with a few different twists, really could have led to a wretched life and a lonely death, as her grandmother warned. But instead, Hirsi Ali escaped -- and transformed herself into an internationally renowned spokeswoman for the rights of Muslim women."
ref: Washington Post book review.

four excerpts:

p. 47 paperback issue:

"Some of the Saudi women in our neighborhood were regularly beaten by their husbands. You could hear them at night. Their screams resounded across the courtyards. "No! Please! By Allah!"

p.68:

"The Pakistanis were Muslims but they too had castes. The Untouchable girls, both Indian and Pakistani were darker skin. The others would not play with them because they were untouchable. We thought that was funny because of course they were touchable: we touched them see? but also horrifying to think of yourself as untouchable, despicable to the human race."

p.309

"Between October 2004 and May 2005, eleven Muslim girls were killed by their families in just two regions (there are 20 regions in Holland). After that, people stopped telling me I was exaggerating."

p. 347

"The kind on thinking I saw in Saudi Arabia and among the Brotherhood of Kenya and Somalia, is incompatible with human rights and liberal values. It preserves the feudal mind-set based on tribal concepts of honor and shame. It rests on self-deception, hyprocricy, and double standards. It relies on the technologial advances of the West while pretending to ignore their origin in Western thinking. This mind-set makes the transition to modernity very painful for all who practice Islam".