Cheney, Torture and the Road to Hell

i think it was colin powell who popularized the real issue regarding cheney and torture:

even if torture works, even if it "protects americans" WE STILL shouldn't do it! we don't - because we are americans. we have to be better than they are.

"[i] wonder if Cheney's obsession with justifying his post-9/11 policies has something to do with a guilty conscience about a lack of pre-9/11 preparedness."

interesting...certainly makes sense.

Are those who championed welfare (aid to dependent children) morally responsible for further erosion of family stability?

The fact remains that any time one makes a decision "for the greater good" which clearly falls into the category of "ends justifying means", the person or government institution carrying out the act has no clear idea of the ramifications of their acting.

That is not an argument for paralysis. That is an argument for careful weighing of consequences as best as they can be seen. Those who want to stamp the situation with the categorical imperative "do not torture" do no recognize the gray areas of true governance.

"The end justifies the means" is the oldest defense for atrocities, and it still doesn't wash after centuries.

Madam,
Although I agree with your conclusion, I am in awe of your impeccable reasoning and logic that sheds the needed light on this topic to undrstand its significance

In Honor of our Fallen.

I believe "Shermans March" through the south was just. Leave an Impression.

Dr. King "and many others" may not have been able to write their words had the "lines" not held in Gettysburg.

James David Whitall II

Dear us4000ad,

Make up your mind. Are we liberals or are we fascists? Despite what Jonah Goldberg tried to push, Fascism is a totalitarian movement of the Right, not the left. Even for those of use who believe abortion is wrong on moral grounds, one shouldn't succumb to ignorant mudslinging. Winning the fight on abortion will not come about through name calling, but through convincing an overwhelming majority of that abortion is wrong. In the mean while, arguing for the legitimacy of torture on the grounds that Cheney and the other conservatives who support him are against abortion is a very poor argument. Until the day when moral, ethical, medical, and scientific evidence supports the pro-life position and not only bans it legally but also provides a compassionate outcome for those women who do not want to bring a child to term, then what Pres. Obama and before him Pres. Clinton proposed that the standard for abortion in this country should be that it is safe, legal and RARE (because of these social support mechanisms) makes perfect sense to me.

Well written. I personally tend to wonder if Cheney's obsession with justifying his post-9/11 policies has something to do with a guilty conscience about a lack of pre-9/11 preparedness.

But this point is essentially moot with regard to morality. Attempting to justify something so obviously unjustifiable is indeed willful ignorance. I have compassion for Cheney's desperation, but I cannot excuse his intransigence.

"Catholic moral theology offers great insight into why good intentions are not only not enough; they can also send you straight to hell."

Pre-Aristotelian, dramatized by Sophocles. Endlessly, demonstrated in the Tanakh.

That said, it emerges that three (3) persons were subjected to water-boarding, albeit one of them 264 times. Just one why out of many, for instance, the 264 squared mention of "water boarding."

What is missing from the hype, hysteria, etc., on "heightened interrogation," which the Dems apparently signed off on, and I, a Dem, believe, given the available evidence, that sign off they did, are facts.

What was done to whom and why. Why does our President insist that there remain those who can be neither tried nor released? Why is he now seeking a "preventative" statute such as that which allowed for the "detainment" of Japanese-Americans during WWII?

Why is it that two of Guantanamo's strongest critics, England and France, respectively, have agreed to take only one (1) prisoner from Guantanamo each?! The simplest answer, and perhaps the case, is the historic moral and physical cowardice of those nations in the face of just about everything in recent years. Endlessly condemning Israel, demanding the release of convicted terrorists, not Guantanamo-style, or British style Irish "detainees," those same nations have bravely refused to have any of the Israeli held convicts anywhere near their native soil, soiled though it is, in so many ways.

If this is simply another such instance, fine. If not, why do they refuse to take other detainees?

In no way am I justifying Guantanamo. In no way do I wish to see institutionalized torture. However, we need much, much more in the way of facts before we can, with any confidence, say we know what occurred, are prepared to avoid further injustice, e.g., Kidnapping, which we euphemistically call "detainment." Preventative statute.

MOre examples: Right now, convicts have been sent to fifty different nations. Why? What has happened to them there?

What do we know of the fourteen per cent who went on to commit terrorist acts?

If Guantanamo is not to close, can it be brought under Congressional oversight? I realize that there is humor in this question given the Congress we, at present, have, but they are what we, the "represented" citizens have to work with.

Great article, well thought save for the most obvious trait portrayed by Bush And Cheney, and that is ego. Just as money corrupts one senses, ego corrupts morality
and cast a cloud over rational or logical
thinking. They weren't thinking! They were reacting, just as you are now!

The Christian Right put Push and Cheney
in office not once but twice, so are they not guilty of "willful ignorance" after the first four years started to be scrutinized.?

You put them in office over the abortion
issue, period! Therefore, you must now
carry the weight of all the innocent civilians and military lives on both sides, on your shoulders. These are the people who died over a lie and christian beliefs, call it willful ignorance. They are now families with no mother or father,whose children are maimed, physically and mentally! Conversely, it is immoral to deport fathers in America illegally,we shouldn't break up their families. One belief, two different outcomes.

Once the catholic church took over GOD'S
job, I.E. that of a judge, I left the church, and I imagine that I am not the only one.