God's Economics

Heard this coming from a meeting at Lehman Brothers:

"Those Wiccan Spells don't work!!!!"

Let me quote your blurb, there, Reverend:

"God doesn't reward the rich and punish the poor, so why does our economic system do that?"

It seems you may have missed out in the recent century, on the fact that as far as most Religious Right churches have been concerned since Calvin if not before...

You're the one who's supposed to have it backwards.

Whose hand is the 'Invisible hand of the market' we're supposed to have faith in ....supposed to belong to, in a monotheist mind?

Take your time.

Meanwhile, another mess for the 'reality-based' community to deal with.

Angela, Angela, Angela,

You could at least give an original saying from the simple preacher man. e.g.

http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/Crossan_Inventory

e.g.

The Jesus Seminar (which used the name "By Their Fruits" for this cluster), took the various elements of this saying separately. The commentary in The Five Gospels (p. 298f) notes that, apart from "the quip about thorns and brambles in v. 44b," most of the sayings in the cluster belong to everyday proverbial wisdom."

i.e. Matt 12:34 was judged to be borrowed from the locals.

It is like Jesus borrowing and saying the anonymous, contemporary and famous quote:

"Those that can't do, preach!!!"

Concerned the Christian Now Liberated.

I will pray for you. You have said such abonminable things. Also, when you take your last breath, you can't take anything w/you but your soul and on that day, you will have to stand before the Creator.

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

-

Religion, Greed and Economics 101:

The Baptizer drew crowds and charged for the "dunking".

The historical Jesus saw a good thing and continued dunking and preaching the good word but added "healing" as an added charge to include free room and board. Sure was better than being a poor peasant but he got a bit too zealous and they nailed him to a tree. But still no greed there.

Paul picked up the money scent on the road to Damascus. He added some letters and a prophecy of the imminent second coming for a fee for salvation and "Gentilized" the good word to the "big buck" world. i.e. Paul was the first media evangelist!!!

And he and the other Apostles forgot to pay their Roman taxes and the legendary actions by the Romans made them martyrs for future greed. Paul was guilty of minor greed?

Along comes Constantine. He saw the growing rich Christian community and recognized a new tax base so he set them "free". Major greed on his part!!

The Holy Roman "Empirers"/Popes/Kings/Queens et al continued the money grab selling access to JC and heaven resulting in some of today's
richest organizations on the globe i.e. the Christian churches (including the Mormon Church) and related aristocracies. Obvious greed!!!

An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue, ( Professors Crossan and Wright are On Faith panelists).

"Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

Judaism - Because the foundations are so mythical, it is impossible to be historical about greed in said religion. The historical King Herod and his offspring were with the assistance of Rome, however, were a very greedy bunch.

Hinduism and Buddhism- A Google search will take you to many instances of greed in the leadership of said religions even though like other religions greed is a major sin and disorder.

THE FOOLPROOF BAILOUT

Unless the HOLES in the financial system are properly plugged up, this 700 billion dollar bailout will just GO TO WASTE. The reason why we are in this FINANCIAL MESS is because all those holes came into play at full throttle. Some people simply abused the weakness of the dollar for their benefit. Upon seeing the weakness of the dollar, they played up the price of oil. They can do it because as we have seen last Monday, there is no regulation that can stop them from doing so. With very high oil prices, the companies become vulnerable and weak. Here comes the SHORT SELLERS taking advantage of that weakness and betted that the stock prices of these companies would fail. As a result of stocks plunging, many companies struggled and many could have borrowed money from banks and in the process raised the interest rates. Also, profits from short selling contribute to excess liquidity and to offset this liquidity, interest rates are raised. As interest rates climbed, so does the mortgage interest rates. Many homeowners defaulted which put banks on a tough situation. Again the SHORT SELLERS saw the opportunity to profit so they came BETTING AGAINST the banks until we see all these big banks failed.

Now, we can see that there are THREE BIG SUCKING HOLES that came into play that put us into this mess. The FIRST are the SPECULATORS who played up THE PRICE OF OIL. The SECOND are SHORT SELLERS which pulled down the stock market. The resulting HOLE (third hole) which these two sucking holes created are the FORECLOSED houses which continue to burden the financial system.

The SOLUTION to this mess is simply to PLUG UP these THREE HOLES. First is to create an OIL PRICE STABILIZATION LAW which I explained in my earlier posts. Second is to PERMANENTLY BAN SHORT SELLERS. Thirdly, if they want a bailout, it should be used to relieve the homeowners by lowering their mortgage interest payments and return the foreclosed houses to its previous owners under a restructured payment scheme that's affordable. The third solution will release the banks from bad debt and can therefore continue and start clean anew.

The hedgefunds which will be affected by the ban on short selling can look for MORE PRODUCTIVE investments like the manufacturing sectors and new technologies sectors. This shift of investment would lower interest rates because manufacturers would not be crowding in the banks for loans. This will also make our manufacturing sectors competitive. As a result more jobs will be created.

This is WIN-ALL SCENARIO and to achieve this, THESE THREE HOLES MUST BE ATTENDED TO, otherwise, NO BAILOUT WILL SUCCEED.

GOD BLESS AMERICA.

journey of hearts

love is the food of the life,
the nourishment of the thoughts.
love is dancing with the spirit
in the hills and holes of the hearts
short times of love
will nurture life
for month and maybe years.
and maybe there is no age
on the journey of hearts?

A careful reading of God's Economics prompts a number of major comments.

Professor Thistlethwaite arges that "God may or may not have a "politics," but the bible certainly presents God as having an economics. Throughout the bible, God is shown to be deeply concerned for economic justice and economic well-being for all people."

Here she needs to make it clear that throughout the bible is not the same as a few statements in the Hebrew Bible.

Then she argues that "The "Good News" in Jesus' terms, it turns out, is also good news for a healthy economy. We must turn the economy on its head and promote growth from the bottom up. The top-down, "trickle down" theory is bankrupt, not only fiscally bankrupt, but also morally bankrupt. A healthy economy works for all the people, not just a few mega-rich at the top."

This paragraph offers an initial statement about the Good News in Jesus’ terms, which apparently is not quite the same thing as what is presented “throughout the bible” since the former is not explicitly included in the latter. Then she shifts immediately to a prescriptive for turning the economy on its head so that it promotes growth from the bottom up. Here we have to wonder what this has to do with the Good News since she offers no linkage whatsoever. Then she suggests that a theory can be bankrupt and that the trickle down theory is bankrupt. I wonder in what sense she thinks that it is bankrupt. It appears that she means that it is bankrupt because it does not meet certain “fiscal” criteria, which we are not provided. The she posits that a healthy economy “works for all the people” without providing any indication of just how this happens and what one should look for in determining if an economy is healthy. Then she posits the existence of a few mega-rich at the top, suggesting that we have a dichotomous situation of all the people and the mega rich. It would help a lot if she could offer some meaningful distinctions between these two groups so that we could then begin to sort out who in fact benefits.

The she argues "The root of the word economy is "oikos" or household. An economy, from a Christian perspective, argues theologian Douglas Meeks in God the Economist: The Doctrine of God and Political Economy, is the way we make sure that everyone in God's household has the means to live. The idea of the economy as the just distribution of the goods in God's "oikos" or household depends, of course, on how we understand God, contends Meeks."

Instead of developing her own argument Professor Thistlethwaite shifts immediately to the argument of Douglas Meeks whom she cites as though he was authoritative on this matter. Here we are asked to accept the idea that the economy is a means to a specific end of providing all in God’s household the means to live. Now it would really be helpful to explain what all this means.

Then she argues that "There is a strong connection to be made between the current conservative Christian understanding of God as dominating and judgmental and the kind of economics that got us into this "incredible financial crisis," as Princeton economist Paul Krugman described the train wreck of the economy last week. Likewise, a concept of God as a God of justice who is concerned for the poor, the marginalized and the well-being of ordinary people yields a very different kind of economic theory."

Well perhaps, but this connection is not made in this essay, so we are left to wonder what it is. Here she shifts from the idea that we know what God wants which is the implication of the first paragraph of the essay as the basis for developing our approach to an emphasis on the image of God. It requires little theological understanding to know that this is a very important distinction.

Then she contends that "This current crisis is not just a clog in the arteries of the nation's money supply. Nor is the current crisis merely the result of a reckless disregard of the need for regulation of the banking system, while the lack of regulation has, of course, contributed to this fiscal tsunami. The problems are much deeper and the current bailout, while stemming the bleeding, will actually make the real economic health of the nation worse by increasing inflation. You can't go into debt for another trillion dollars and not have the interest and debt payment increase inflation and thus slow economic recovery and the growth of jobs."

Here a theologian is making an economic prediction without one shred of evidence to support her claim. Which economists make this prediction? Or is she on her own here?
What is really broken in our economy is that it no longer works for all the people. In the last eight years, American consumers have lost a lot of their real purchasing power. The wage and salary increases have not kept pace with costs. Employment has not kept pace with population growth. Worker productivity has increased 20% over this same period, but weekly wages have stayed nearly flat. People are working harder for less."

Again we have a case of some very sloppy logic. In the first sentence we have the assertion that the economy is broken because it no longer works for all the people. When did an economy ever work for all the people? If it never worked in this way we cannot speak of it ever working.
This net wage and job loss has been hidden by the unethical collaboration of this current administration and the Federal Reserve. Because ordinary Americans could not afford to buy goods and services out of their real income, they were offered easy credit on car loans, credit cards and, most crucially, mortgages. The structure of the economy for the last eight years has been a debtor society, where easy credit has been extended to the poor and middle class who have fallen farther and farther behind in real earning power."

While while this may be a reasonable claim it is very one sided in that it implies that those who borrowed money and became debtor bear no responsibility for becoming so. If a core principle of morality is that one is responsible for one’s actions then one can legitimately as if those who became debtors, especially beyond their means were morally irresponsible.

Then she adds the argument that "A punitive understanding of God went hand-in-hand with a punitive social theory. This has led to an attitude of blame toward those who have finally buckled under the strain of massive debt, fewer jobs and less income. Phil Gramm, who, as chair of the U.S. Committee on Banking between 1995 and 2000 bears a lion's share of the blame for the chaos of deregulation, blamed those who are suffering from this economy, calling them "whiners." It actually became harder in this same period to declare bankruptcy."

Now we must address a very different claim to the effect that there is a punitive understanding of God, which is merely asserted without being documented and that it is related to a punitive social theory, which of course is not explained. Presumably it is a theory that allows for punishing those who are deemed to be reasonable for certain behaviors. This is attributed to Phil Gramm, who is inaccurately referred to as chair of the U.S. Committee on Banking (the correct reference is to his role as Chair of the US Senate Committee on Banking). It is simply inaccurate to lay the lion’s share of the blame to him, because it took an entire Congress to pass the legislation that limited regulation.

Then she argues as follows "And now, brace yourself, the debt of every taxpayer in the United States just increased by $3,000 per person. This is on top of mortgage and credit card debt, and the debt accrued by the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. This administration is adding nearly an additional trillion dollars in another band-aid bailout. Stephanie Pomboy, the founder of the economic consulting firm MacroMavens, has been right repeatedly in forecasting the severity and duration of the housing and credit crises. She was quoted in this week's Barron's:
Once again, we can't resist pointing out had Paulson and his bailout crew used their powers for 'good' from the get-go, they could have saved a lot of time, energy and, most importantly, money. Had they simply established a fund to buy up the surplus housing inventory, presently valued at just over $1 trillion, they could have stitched up this wound for less than they've spent layering Band-Aid after Band-Aid on top of it.

It would help the reader a good deal if Professor Thistlethwaite limited each paragraph to a major topic. In this paragraph she starts with the development of taxpayer debt and then shifts immediately to Stephanie Pomboy’s assessment of what could have been done. This violates one of the core principles of effective writing. One hopes that her students know better.

Then she proceeds to argue "Pomboy is not only right in terms of her economic analysis; she is right in the implicit theological analysis. This current bailout is not using the powers of the federal government for "good." In fact, in letting the theory of deregulation, easy credit and an unfettered "free market" drive this downward spiral for so long, those entrusted with the "common good" have proven their moral bankruptcy."

Accusing those entrusted with the common good with moral bankruptcy is a very strong move. One would like to see some clarification of terms here and some criteria for being morally bankrupt. These may be implied in the preceding paragraphs but the logic is lost in the verbiage. How can she possibly know that the current bailout is not for “the good” unless she can know for sure what the common good is in some measurable ways and that the bailout will not serve it. She is entitled to her opinon but an interested reader would benefit from a distinction between her opinions and criteria widely used by others in the religious field.

"Time for a different understanding of how God's household should function. "God's economics" is a way of thinking about how we are all connected in this economy--surely the lesson of the last eight years has to be that top down economic theory is unproductive; bottom up economics is the way to jump start productivity. This is what Isaiah presents as God's will for the household of God:
"Is not this the fast that I choose: to loose the bonds of injustice, to undo the thongs of the yoke, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke?... If you offer your food to the hungry and satisfy the needs of the afflicted," then "you shall be called the repairer of the breach, the restorer of streets to live in." (Isaiah 58: 6,10, 12b)"

It simply does not follow that the failure of the recent top down approach means that bottom up economics is the way to jump start productivity. The latter may be equally ineffective, although it may address her highly subjective moral concerns more effectively.

Finally, or shall we say mercifully, she concludes
"I believe we as the taxpayers, the one's footing the bill for years of rewarding the rich and punishing the poor, must demand that this time the economy be fixed so it works for the greater good, to provide decent wages and jobs, to protect the environment and to restore our cities and towns, our schools and bridges, the very streets we live in."

I question her right as one taxpayer to speak for other tax payers and to demand anything. Tax payers may as citizens ask for change but the word demand is too strong here, especially given the massive public economic illiteracy that has been well document for many decades, which is of course more than adequately demonstrated in this essay.

A Google search will take you to many instances of greed.

All you will find is more greed. We get it. it's fast and user friendly greed. Greed that's cool. Spread the word.

The gospel is not a social gospel and it makes me want to scream everytime I hear this: Seek first His kingdom and all these things will given unto you. It's not about the economy...It's about hardened, unrepentant hearts...Jesus came to bring us back into a relationship with The Father not to give us heaven in our wallets...Stop using His name in vain...!

It was amusing to read here a couple of months back about a gathering of liberal Protestant seminary heads who wanted to recapture the concept and label "Evangelical" from the extremists so that it would no longer be an epithet. The "Evangelical" concept--defining Christianity as some kind of search for a "personal relationship" with Jesus Christ, notwithstanding Christ's own very social life and morals depicted in the gospels--is the artificial theology developed by early Protestants as a justification for their break with the church which keeps coming back to haunt them. Once you've defined Christianity as some kind of personal friendship with the man Jesus rather than an attempt to emulate his social example, once you've set up your theology and church governance and theology to permit all major moral decisions to be adjudicated by your own conscience rather than Christ's example, you take away all motive for the greedy and the angry and the powerful to do anything other than what they're already prone to do. Protestants would do well to consider whether it's time to stop fighting the battles of the Reformation and return instead to understanding the perfectly clear social example Christ set in his works...

Religion, Greed and Economics 101:

The Baptizer drew crowds and charged for the "dunking".

The historical Jesus saw a good thing and continued dunking and preaching the good word but added "healing" as an added charge to include free room and board. Sure was better than being a poor peasant but he got a bit too zealous and they nailed him to a tree. But still no greed there.

Paul picked up the money scent on the road to Damascus. He added some letters and a prophecy of the imminent second coming for a fee for salvation and "Gentilized" the good word to the "big buck" world. i.e. Paul was the first media evangelist!!!

And he and the other Apostles forgot to pay their Roman taxes and the legendary actions by the Romans made them martyrs for future greed. Paul was guilty of minor greed?

Along comes Constantine. He saw the growing rich Christian community and recognized a new tax base so he set them "free". Major greed on his part!!

The Holy Roman "Empirers"/Popes/Kings/Queens et al continued the money grab selling access to JC and heaven resulting in some of today's
richest organizations on the globe i.e. the Christian churches (including the Mormon Church) and related aristocracies. Obvious greed!!!

An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue, ( Professors Crossan and Wright are On Faith panelists).

"Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

Judaism - Because the foundations are so mythical, it is impossible to be historical about greed in said religion. The historical King Herod and his offspring were with the assistance of Rome, however, were a very greedy bunch.

Hinduism and Buddhism- A Google search will take you to many instances of greed in the leadership of said religions even though like other religions greed is a major sin and disorder.

There is justice in the country we love and justice will always be done. In God We Trust. It's all about money and doing the right thing for the money. The rest is just liberty, love and freedom. I'm just trying to get home to Maine and find a little peace and something better for the future. God only knows how long it will take, so no sense in rushing things. The world is in a big enough hurry. It never changes as the Bible proves.

SUSAN BROOKS THISTLETHWAITE

The house of cards is collapsing, have you ever heard of human nature?

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

SAQIB KHAN

You wrote, "Islam provides guidance to its adherents in all phases and activities of life, material as well as spiritual."

It seems to me that 'guidance' is too tame of a word to be used here and that 'to its adherents' is also misleading, as far as 'all phases and activities of life, material as well as spiritual' this does seem to be right on the mark and it also seems to take away people's God-given free will right along with it.

Anything that has to be imposed from the outside rather than obeyed freely from the inside is not FREEDOM, not true freedom.

Just because people abuse their free will and use it in ways that are not 'nice', so to speak, is no excuse to cram someone's version of god down their throats.

The True, Living, Triune, Triumphant God gave us free will and what we do with it is our responsibility whether we accept that responsibility or not.

By the way, God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious afiliations or lack thereof and it is important What one does and Why one does it and What one Knows.

As far as implementing 'sharia law' as the law of the land or to be more blunt about it, the law of the planet, which is the goal of islam, which you pointed out, I disagree completely, since God gave us free will.

Laws are one thing but trying to set up a 'theocracy' is another, even God when He became One of us did not try to set up a 'theocracy'.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

i tel you people ,i,m the neo zeus i,m the way the truth and life to many many people i muled and enslaved people thru the entire history of mankind including those who they call themselfs democratic and free please do not believe the dam joke.

people are so confused is,t jesus land or land of the free ? is,t conservatism or liberalism ?

hopefuly the $juchristianseculardarwinisticapitalistic$laden full of it ship will come to a shore !!!!!!!!

THIS INSANITY MUST STOP ( Our National Security is AT STAKE)

It is high time this INSANITY SHOULD STOP. The reason why the U.S economy is so vulnerable to Wall Street speculation is because of SHORT SELLING. The economists DO NOT REALIZE that these people (short sellers) are like PRINTING MONEY UNHINDERED. Earning money at the expense of others (short selling) is NOT EARNING BUT STEALING. It's the same reason why we can't print money freely because it is tantamount to stealing.

UNLESS the regulators BAN THIS SHORT SELLING IN THE STOCK MARKET, Americans will continue to SUFFER ECONOMICALLY as what is happening now. The ENEMIES of America does not need an airplane to crash to our buildings. They only need to PLAY UP THE OIL PRICE IN THE STOCK MARKET and then start BETTING ON THE OTHER STOCKS TO FAIL thru SHORT SELLING. Not only can they ruin the economy of America, but they can also make themselves rich by doing so.

NOW WHERE ARE THE BRAINS OF OUR LEADERS AND ANALYSTS ?

BAN SHORT-SELLING AND IMPLEMENT THAT OIL PRICE STABILIZATION MECHANISM NOW and all will be well again.

That 700 billion dollar bail-out should be used to relieve American homeowners by lowering their mortgage interest rates and those who already lost their homes should be asked to return with their payments restructured.

WE NEED THAT OIL PRICE STABILIZATION MECHANISM LAW NOW.

We have seen how the price of oil jumped 16 points in just one day for no valid reason. It's very clear that the government (both Congress and the executive branch) has NOT DONE anything to rein-in speculators. It is therefore NOT farfetched that oil would rise up again to an all time high as before.

I hope they would now legislate a bill that would rein-in the STUPIDITY of these speculators. Oil has been the lifeblood of world economy and people should not be allowed to play on this commodity. It's very clear that the speculators are not using their minds. They do not understand that they are slowly hanging themselves as the price of oil shoots up to where the economy cannot perform anymore. Their money would be deemed useless if there would be a work stoppage worldwide.

I hope Congress would make a law that would put a price cap on oil everytime speculators are playing with it. If the price of oil today (Monday) is 120 dollars per barrel, the price cap tomorrow (Tuesday) should be 120 dollars per barrel. Since it cannot go up that price, there would be massive panic selling which would pull down it's price. If the price of oil closes at 110 dollars tomorrow (Tuesday), the price cap should be set at 110 dollars per barrel on Wednesday. There is no way to go for the price of oil but DOWN if this mechanism would be put into place. Once the oil price reaches a SANE LEVEL of maybe about 90 dollars, regulators can then SWITCH-OFF that mechanism so it can settle to it's true value. There must be a body that can switch that mechanism on or off as the need requires.

We NEED THAT MECHANISM NOW AND CONGRESS SHOULD ACT NOW BEFORE THESE IDIOTIC SPECULATORS WOULD HAMMER THE ECONOMY AGAIN.

"Capitalism was the urgent need of European colonialism and imperialism but it is collapsing brick by brick because its foundations were built on slavery and pure and simple greed. On the other hand, Islam provides guidance to its adherents in all phases and activities of life, material as well as spiritual.

The economic policy of Islam has been explained in most unequivocal terms: “ so that this (wealth) may not circulate solely among the rich from among you, (59/7)."

Is this a joke? Islam was colonizing long before Christianity even had a word for it. The same is true for genocide as in the Qurayza Jews. As for spreading the wealth, check Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Yemen, etc.

If the word JUSTICE were carved in stone and fell on the heads of every Muslim, few would get it. There is no freedom of speech, press in Islamic countries. The wealth is held by wealthy landowners and the army. Those found guilty of BEING RAPED are executed by their brothers.

Please. This is the US, not Iran. We know BS when we see it.

Capitalism was the urgent need of European colonialism and imperialism but it is collapsing brick by brick because its foundations were built on slavery and pure and simple greed. On the other hand, Islam provides guidance to its adherents in all phases and activities of life, material as well as spiritual.

The economic policy of Islam has been explained in most unequivocal terms: “ so that this (wealth) may not circulate solely among the rich from among you, (59/7). Equality of all men in wealth and comfort, even if it is ideal, does not promise to be of unmixed good to humanity. First because natural talents are not equal amongst different men, so much so that even one if one were to start a group of person with complete equality, soon the spendthrift will fall into difficulties and will again look on the fortune of his comrades with greed and envy. Further, on philosophical and psychological grounds, it seems that in the every interest of human society, it is desirable that there should be grades in wealth; the poor having the desire and incentive to work harder.

On the other hand if it is asked of men to work harder than their capacity without a reward, then everyone will become lazy and careless would be tremendous waste of people’s talent and loss to humanity. Everyone knows that livelihood is in constant progress, though the domination and exploitation one after the other of all things that God has created, whereas one sees that the rest of animals have changed nothing in their livelihood ever since God has created their spices. The cause of this difference as discovered by the biologist is simultaneous existence of a society, a cooperation, and a liberty of competition inside the members of the society, i.e., human beings, whereas other animals suffer from the lack of some or all these requisite conditions. Dogs, cats, rats, monkeys, snakes, etc for instance do not even create a family; they perpetuate their race by means of free and momentarily,” love”, rutting instinct. Other such as crows, pigeons do create a family in the form of couples yet even if the male helps in the nest building, every member of the couple depends on its own for livelihood.

Perhaps the most developed social cooperation is found among bees, ants and termites: they live in a collective way with the complete equality in livelihood, yet without any competition among its members and consequently it is not possible for the more intelligent or more industrious bee to live more comfortably than others. For this reason, there is neither evolution nor change, much less progress in any of these species as against the human race. The past history of man shows that every advance and every discovery of the means of comfort came into existence through competition and desire for amelioration, and also through the existence of grades of wealth or poverty among men, one above the other.

Yes, the absolute liberty as in liberal democracy would lead to devilish capitalist men exploit the needy and ooze them out gradually. Man-made ‘democracy’ of the rich for the rich by the rich is the biggest fraud that the capitalists have inflicted on humanity. It is pure and simple exploitation of the poor by giving them a right to throw a paper in the ballot box. So, it was necessary for every progressive civilization and every healthy culture to impose certain duties on its members(such as to pay the taxes), the interdiction on cheating, short selling, stock market manipulation, wholesalers, big food chains and stores manipulating prices etc, and recommend certain supererogatory acts like charity and expenditure for the sake of God and yet it provides a great deal of liberty of thought and action to its members, so that each one benefits himself, his exigency, his friends and the society at large.

This is exigency of Islam and its also conforms to nature. It tolerates the minority of the rich and accumulation of wealth but imposes upon them heavier obligations: prevents immoral means of exploitation, hoarding and accumulation of wealth. Further, it makes injunctions and also some recommendations for charity and sacrifice with promise of spiritual and eschatological rewards. Islamic view is that unless equality(masawat) in all spheres of life is not practiced, a society will remain unjust and it is the duty of the state to provide and look after the needs and comforts of its subjects. The Sermon of Last Hajj, “All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white - except by piety and good action.” He explicitly mentioned the rights of men, women, and all groups of the society.

Every man-made economic philosophy, ideology and theory is bound to fail with inherent defects as has communism, socialism and capitalism. Capitalism was the need of 18-20th century colonialism and imperialism of Europe nations. It is debauch, lewd, greedy and corrupt and the system has failed we are witnessing its anomalies and decline.

Rev. Thistlethwaite, thank you for contributing your excellent responses to this forum.

While I agree that upper-management, corporate greed created a predatory lending monster that devastated the "people," I think you downplay the rampant materialism that also led to the crisis.

Does the average American really need all the stuff that they bought on credit -- cars, TVs, vacations, clothes, electronics, gadgets, sports tickets, etc.?

To think that consumers don't buy impulsively is naive. Most people buy retail goods either because they think it will lead to fulfillment or because they feel that they need to look "better" than their neighbor, which is a case of pride.

It's only going to get worse. I'm looking forward to the Millennial reign. :)