McCain: Biker Family Values

It is impossible to take Prof Thistlethwaite's religion seriously. She is more political than a politician!

Dear Jeremy -

Do I really owe you an apology? All I asked was that you reserve judgment on the Edwards story until the story was confirmed by a source other than the National Enquirer. I also stated that I believed Edwards should come out and issue a statement. He has now done so. Contrary to what you and others wrote, he did not father a bastard child. At least, that's what Edwards and Andrew Young are claiming. If Edwards submits to a paternity test and it turns out that he was the father, then fine - he's a liar and a hypocrite on two fronts.

That said, I find Edwards' affair just as loathsome as I do McCain's earlier affairs. There's no excuse for such behavior. Having such an affair when your wife is seriously ill only makes it worse. My wife is a cancer survivor, I have two young kids, and I can't imagine the mindset and the ego that would allow someone to behave as did Edwards.

So, there's my apology...sort of a non-apology apology to be sure.

BTW - this is the THIRD time today that I will try to post this comment. The first two times seem to have wafted off into the ozone.

And Mr Mark- I'm still waiting for you to apologise to me...

Athena-

You do a cut and paste from Wikipedia? You're joking, right?

Obama short career as a senator has been average at best. He was not a great legislator and has shown no particular leadership. Democratic state senators from Chicago- Trotter and Hendon called him a "privileged, know-it-all greenhorn". He might have accomplished much more for his constituents but he never intended to stay long enough to help them- they were only a stepping-stone for him.

I asked you to name just one thing Obama has acomplished as a politician that shows his leadership abilities.. Without a cut and paste- you have no answer?

I wonder... do you get less McCain points for posting as "Anonymous"?

List of Obama's accomplishments in the Senate (from Wikipedia):

- Co-sponsored legislation with Richard Lugar to control conventional weapons and to promote greater public accountability in the use of federal funds;

- Co-sponsored with Tom Coburn a bill to create USASpending.gov search engine for Federal Government transparency;

- Sponsored legislation requiring plant owners to notify state and local authorities of radioactive leaks;

- Sponsored the "Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Protection Act";

- Co-sponsored with Russ Feingold the "Honest Leadership and Open Government Act" that governs lobbying and bundling campaing contributions;

- He introduced S. 453, a bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections, including fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls, as witnessed in the 2006 midterm elections;

- Sponsored with John McCain McCain a climate change bill to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by two-thirds by 2050 (irony alert!);

- Sponsored an amendment to the Defense Authorization Act adding safeguards for personality disorder military discharges, and calling for an official review following reports that the procedure had been used inappropriately to reduce government costs

I could go on...

So now we can deal with the other Anonymous, who sez: "What has Barack Obama accomplished in his political career that shows his ability to lead?"

I'm not going to bother formulating any kind of answer until you can explain what the relevance of this question is to the topic of messiahs.

Fez:

What has Barack Obama accomplished in his political career that shows his ability to lead?

Anonymous sez: Just wondering, Fez, have you been drinking Koolaid lately?

No, I haven't. Every time I get in line you guys keep cutting in front like some sort of entitlement class.

Anonymous sez: Do you really think "(Obama and his followers) are THE ONEs we've been waiting for."

No, in fact that's the point. It's the neocon press and the neocon apologists such as yourself who have been shrieking about some messiah thing. Just as you were shrieking about Obama the muslim. And Obama the racist. And Obama the marxist/socialist/communist. You've played the label game for so long you've quite obviously bought into your own BS.

You want to be a collective bunch of drama queens, hey, knock your socks off. But at least have the decency to admit you're not arguing from an honest position. *You* are the groupthink collective that came up with the messiah bit and *you* are the ones repeating the label in an attempt to put truth to the lie.

Meanwhile I'll continue to laugh at your obvious discomfiture, the frantic attempts to maintain some kind of relevance, and will happily wave goodbye to you as you sink back into the lunatic fringe from which your brand of politics sprung.

I'm done with this Anonymous clown. Next!

Fez:

In a speech following a political victory Barack Obama announced:

"America, this is our (my and my followers) moment.. I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.”

Think about it. He's not only "absolutely certain"- he will bring the usual messianic things to the world (prosperity and good health)- he's also going to stop the ocean from rising and heal the earth. He has actually promised "a nation healed, a world repaired."

Wow. He is ate up with the messianic fever. He sounds like a shyster hawking promises of "hope" and "change". What we need is sound leadership.

Just wondering, Fez, have you been drinking Koolaid lately? Do you really think "(Obama and his followers) are THE ONEs we've been waiting for."

Anonymous,

Ok, we get it, the press has joyfully affixed Obama with the messiah label. Where is obama's claim of having been chosen by god?

I too am concerned about Obama's outright lies-

Barack Obama said:

"Now, in terms of knowing my commitments, you don’t have to just look at my words, you can look at my deeds. Just this past week, we passed out of the U.S. Senate Banking Committee, WHICH IS MY COMMITTEE, a bill to call for divestment from Iran, as a way of ratcheting up the pressure to ensure that they don’t obtain a nuclear weapon."

Only thing is Obama isn't a member of the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/23/obama-makes-a-gaffe-says_n_114568.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjzb61wfyN0

Apparently the Bush crowd is using the same standards for nominating their candidate of choice as the last couple of times - who would they they rather drink a beer with?

Cindy McCain promises to provide all the beer you can guzzle - surely that's worth your vote!

McCain is just a regular guy who likes Harleys and biker chicks .... ya, right - a biker chick with a few million in the bank and her own brewery.

Now those are family values right out of the 1960's! That was McCain's era, as I recall.

“I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.”

-- Barack Obama

Fez:

People have been watching Obama's messianic outbursts for a long time:

The Obama Messiah Watch
Introducing a periodic feature considering evidence that Obama is the son of God.
By Timothy Noah
Posted Monday, Jan. 29, 2007

Is Barack Obama—junior U.S. senator from Illinois, best-selling author, Harvard Law Review editor, Men's Vogue cover model, and "exploratory" presidential candidate—the second coming of our Savior and our Redeemer, Prince of Peace and King of Kings, Jesus Christ? His press coverage suggests we can't dismiss this possibility out of hand. I therefore inaugurate the Obama Messiah Watch, which will periodically highlight gratuitously adoring biographical details that appear in newspaper, television, and magazine profiles of this otherworldly presence in our midst.

http://www.slate.com/id/2158578/

Here's the latest:

One Nation, Under a New Obama Salute

"Our goal is to see a crowd of 75,000 people at Obama's nomination speech holding their hands above their heads, fingers laced together in support of a new direction for this country, a renewed hope, and acceptance of responsibility for our future"

And as was noted in the comments- "Looks like somebody's jacking off with both hands."

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/washington-whispers/2008/08/07/one-nation-under-a-new-obama-salute.html

JJ, I have never had an abortion, I have never even been pregnant, and there is no need to be offensive. Go crawl back under your rock.

And once again the neocon chorus, represented here most recently by Anonymous, chants their own talking points as fact.

Got any proof to back up this "Obama thinks he was chosen by god" claim? I won't hold my breath waiting for an answer; nobody else has offered up anything by hyperbole and derision when asked to back it up and it's obvious all of you are working from the same talking points memo.

Susan says:

"In truth, Dobson is said to just be 'considering' endorsing McCain, so I suggest he take the biker rally appearance into account in making that final decision."

Bud thinks:

"Susan (and others) are simple asking the FOF crowd to practice-what-they-preach."

Susan said she searched the FOF site for comments about McCain at Sturgis. She couldn't have missed this:

Dobson said in a statement to the AP on July 20th:

"Barack Obama contradicts and threatens everything I believe about the institution of the family and what is best for the nation. His radical positions on life, marriage and national security force me to reevaluate the candidacy of our only other choice, John McCain."

Dobson does not condone McCain's values- he considers him a better candidate than Obama.

So who is the hypocrite?

Susan sounds like a party hack completely in the tank for her candidate not a minister who respects the truth.

If Obama keeps presenting himself as "chosen by God" to enlighten the world. if his speeches revolve around his "extraordinary life" and the "hope" that he brings the world, if he continues to vacillate on major issues-- McCain will have my vote too.

It's not strange at all that James Dobson would be silent on McCain disrespecting his own wife. The "family values" agenda pushed by Dobson and his colleagues is all about disrespecting women - they claim that husbands should be in charge of marriages. It's been argued that the concept of beauty pageants is rooted in attitudes about limiting women's role in society, and that may be the case here.

Am I the only person who DOESN'T see Miss Buffalo Chip and family values as mutually exclusive?

It's really too bad that a bunch of stuckup people who are ashamed of their looks and hate their bodies keep dictating to the rest of us what our morals should be.

FOF, Robertson, Vitter, Craig, Haggard, Foley, Gingrich, Rove, Stevens, neochristians, neocons, Hannity, O'Reilly, Limberger, McCain - all old "Christian" Republican white men judging others while living the lifestyles of "do as I say, not as I do." These bullies are the sorry representation of America in the 21st century.

Sadder is how they maintain their influence - politics of fear, and racial and religious hatred - while joe-six-pack complacently drinks their bathwater.

JEREMY writes:

"Maybe she just prefers to throw stones- but I hope she knows- more accurate stones may be hurled back."

I honestly don't think she was throwing stones. She was merely trying to point out the hypocricy in the situation A good definition of hypocricy:

"is the act of preaching a certain belief or way of life, but not, in fact, holding these same virtues oneself."

The Focus on Family (FOF) crowd would NEVER endorse any type of lewd or inappropriate behavior which even SUGGESTS pre-maritial sex. But what does a biker rally with half-naked women suggest to you? I don't personally have any issue with half-naked women on motorcycles, but the FOF crowd does! It is inappropriate behavior for a conservative presidential candidate to display. She (and others) are simple asking the FOF crowd to practice-what-they-preach. Nothing more.

Prof. Brooks Thistlethwaite's column is mostly a class-and-culture based attack on McCain, dressed up in theological language. While it's true that neither Hyde Park Illinois nor NW Washington, D.C. would much tolerate the culture of a motorcycle rally, those neighborhoods have their own ways of exhibiting the weaknesses of human nature -- although often more hidden, and certainly more rationalized, than in Middle America. No doubt Obama is deeply religious in a certain way--but mostly he seems incredibly grateful to God to be the chosen one, endorsing God's good judgment. McCain's faith expression pales in comparison, I suppose. But perhaps it is more genuinely biblical. He seems far more willing to confess the ultimate mystery of faith and disinclined to use it as a means to get a slice of voters--I guess once you've been in a prison camp and God didn't bail you out of it, faith is neither a good luck charm, a set of obvious policy positions, a strategy to attract swing voters, nor an interesting intellectual game one gets to play on the sidelines.

Att: Ms. Sassy-SUSAN et al;

Your beloved Church & Ye preapocalyptic Kingdom will surely be destroyed:

Ye'r a Witch in the Vatican's Mother Of Harlots Army!

Ye'r aWitch in the Vatican's Mother Of Halots Army~!

It's a good read but I'm left feeling ho-hum - yet another example of the hypocrisy of the neo conservatives and self-appointed Xtian mouthpieces. They've a long history of demonstrating that it's ok to lie as long as it protects their interests. Why is this news?

Mr Mark:
JEREMY writes:

"Let me remind you that a man or woman's adultery is "nobody's business". I repeat it is none of your business."

This after Jeremy writes a post accusing John Edwards of adultery and of fathering a love child, ie: the post that incited Arminius and me to mention adultery in the first place.

Idiot."

READ THE THREAD AND WHAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN- THEN APOLOGISE. YOU ARE A FOOL TO POST BLATANT LIES.

"WG:
Susan, I challenge you to now write that Edwards' (alleged) love baby categorically disqualifies him from office. You're getting self-righteous to score political points.

McCain made an off-color joke about his wife in public. That's less offensive than adultery. I think neither is a career killer for a politician because personal and private values and habits can be decoupled from projected public performance and competence. I won't vote for McCain for other reasons (I hate the GOP), but not because of what happened on a stage in front of a bunch of leather fetishists who compensate for something by riding big noisy bikes.

Would you judge Bill Clinton the same way? He didn't strike me as too respectful.

August 7, 2008 5:36 PM"

"Mr Mark:
WG writes:

"McCain made an off-color joke about his wife in public. That's less offensive than adultery."

McCain committed adultery numerous times with numerous partners while married to his first wife.

What's your point?

August 7, 2008 5:39 PM"

"jeremy:
"McCain committed adultery numerous times with numerous partners while married to his first wife.

What's your point?"

His point is:

Edwards has fathered an bastard child while his smart, devoted wife battles what will most likely be terminal cancer.

Its nobody's business. When someone like Susan criticises an innocuous comment by McCain -"McCain's "biker family values" demonstrate just how thin his veneer of faith and family values really is"- the harmful comparisons begin.

Susan should know "whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things." Maybe she just prefers to throw stones- but I hope she knows- more accurate stones may be hurled back.

August 7, 2008 6:32 PM"

JEREMY writes:

"Let me remind you that a man or woman's adultery is "nobody's business". I repeat it is none of your business."

This after Jeremy writes a post accusing John Edwards of adultery and of fathering a love child, ie: the post that incited Arminius and me to mention adultery in the first place.

Idiot.

List faith based good works of Senator Obama that was done before he started campaigning for the most powerful office in the world.

List the faith based good works done by Senator Obama that was not politically motivated, i.e. to win votes.

What charities did Senator Obama support? How much of his income did he give away for good causes? Did his right hand do things that his left hand did not know about?

These are faith based questions.

This is a blatantly political essay from a theology professor. No wonder atheists call for separation of religion and state.

Att: A T H E N A:

For someone who is an Admitted 'Murderer' via Abortion: "i" would Think that Ye Woulkd Shut the F.U.C.K Up!

Go Kill Another Fitus!

John Edwards alleged "love child" is irrelevant to the conversation. Mr. Edwards pulled out of the race back in February, for any number of reasons. If he's been fooling around, that's between him and his wife. Who knows? Maybe she encouraged it, since she has terminal cancer?

Likewise, McCain's adultery is also his business. However, his treatment of his current wife speaks to the fact that he doesn't respect her. If she's bankrolling his campaign with her beer money, then he'd BETTER respect her! I saw that video from Sturgis, and she gave him the "I'm smiling now, but you are so dead when we're in private" look. You married guys can certainly recognize it. :D

I suppose it could be worse. His cute, blonde, 23-year-old daughter was also on stage with him. He could have said that SHE was entering the pageant.

From: Joktanian-National-Party, U.S.A. & Apocalypse 2013

----
“Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18.”

- Said by our great Prophet of many, Hir Albert Einstein [pbuh et al] of the “Holy Cosmic Feelers Faith” [Ho-Co-Fe-Fa] and our 'Quantum-Entanglement' & Relativity' song

AND

“G-D Consents, but Only For a “TiME” [via ‘TEMPerature‘, not clock or space time thinking].

- Said by our great Prophet of many, Hir Harry Theriault [pbuh et al] of the “O.ne U.niversal R.eligion Book Of Tran{finity}” [O.U.R.-B.O.T.] New Song.

----

On: OBAMA Eats "DOG"-meat:

Fact: OBAMA was trained to Eat"DOG"-meat: Soo

Please, keep ye Pet DOG(s) away from OBAMA & Family!

Also Cat's?

----

VOTE: The ‘APOCALYPT-ARiAN’ Prophecy!

VOTE: McCAiN, GOG (Truth) thinking, not OBAMA, MAGOG (Illusion) wrong-thinking!

VOTE: “’Marriage is sacred between a ‘real-MAN & a real-WOMAN“, not a Man with Man, etc.!

VOTE:
The "NEW_NAPOLiANS", aka the "NEO-NAPOLiAN's" , like John McCain & Condoleeza Rice et al, and NOT like them "NEO-CON" ventriloquists Clinton's, Gores, Kennedy’s, JesJackson, ASharpton, Lu Farrakhan , Oprah etc.., of Obama's-Pipe-Dream-TEAM & thus Zero ‘CHANGE’ nothing New! What a Fib!

.........P.............
.........E.............
.........A.............
.........C.............
L O V e R O C K
.........R.............
.........O.............
.........L.............
.........L.............

--

..........................McCain for PREZ 2008!

...........................................Condoleeza vPREZ 2009!

VOTE: "ECONoMiC MiGHT, Not MiLiTARY MiGHT!" This TiME Around!

VOTE: Stable or Lower Oil Prices!

VOTE: Finish what is unfinished, and Globally ,as well as Locally ,fix What is Broken, and not fix what's not broken, but Prevent!

G O O D -- B Y E Mr. G.W. BuSH et al!

HELLO McCAiN-TEAM ! A better FUTURE with 'FRESH' Faces & “SMARTER” minds!

VOTO/A:

Peace (English), Paz (latin), Shalom (Eberu), Ahimsa (Hindu/Urdu), Salaam (Arab), Zhengyu (Sino), ... & more Good Tidings coming YE-WAY!

Thank Ya.

Gracia Yo.

Todar!

Shookria!

Shookron!

Zcee Zcee or Doe-jaey, Respectfully!

Pay'd For, By the American JOCKTANian-PARTY of the "ECLATi{ON}" Votary Assoc. 2012+

chill out. he was just joking. it's called a sense of humor and/or sarcasm.

Mr Mark and Arminius:

Let me remind you that a man or woman's adultery is "nobody's business". I repeat it is none of your business.

Yet in spite of this- I see pigs will always like to wallow in the mud..

Jeremy,

Is not adultery a wrong thing to do, and that wrong not dependent on whether a child issued from it or not? What I read from your words is that Edwards - if indeed he was guilty - is more guilty than McCain because he, Edwards, is a democrat. This is despicable hypocrisy. And Mr Mark is right - the issue is a tabloid issue, and not proven.

Jeremy writes:

"Edwards has fathered an bastard child while his smart, devoted wife battles what will most likely be terminal cancer."

You're talking about the National Enquirer story, right? I thought that Andrew Young has already issued a statement claiming to be the father of this child. Is that not correct?

Edwards has not yet addressed this supposed scandal. I think that he probably should address it and will address it.

For you to assert that Edwards "has fathered a bastard child" with no proof outside of allegations made in the NE is pretty crude.

The facts about McCain having committed adultery are clear and well documented. McCain has admitted to being the cause of his first marriage breaking up. Rumor v fact is hardly a case of equal charges being leveled, wouldn't you say?

As usual, the Rs jump on a rumor about a D to run cover for disturbing FACTS about their candidate. Pathetic.

"McCain committed adultery numerous times with numerous partners while married to his first wife.

What's your point?"

His point is:

Edwards has fathered an bastard child while his smart, devoted wife battles what will most likely be terminal cancer.

Its nobody's business. When someone like Susan criticises an innocuous comment by McCain -"McCain's "biker family values" demonstrate just how thin his veneer of faith and family values really is"- the harmful comparisons begin.

Susan should know "whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things." Maybe she just prefers to throw stones- but I hope she knows- more accurate stones may be hurled back.

Dear Richmond -

Oops. I called you Richard...again! Sorry.

Dear Richard -

Thanks for the clarification on cynic and Dobson.

Personally, I don't find that Dobson and his organization have any redeeming qualities whatsoever. But I don't consider him an "enemy" and I'm not a Christian.

My secular-humanist charity only goes so far, though, and Dobson and his organization are - IMHO - unworthy of charity, in thought or deed. I will offer them charity in the form of a mirror which reflects their hatred of others back at them.

MrMark said "You say that like it's a bad thing to say. Why?"

... I said it was cynical. Dictionary.com says cynic is "1. A person who believes all people are motivated by selfishness. 2. A person whose outlook is scornfully and often habitually negative."

I was shooting for the second definition... Dr. T seems to see no redeeming aspects of Dobson; his organization is used in "Christian Left" circles as an epithet. To be so monolithically uncharitable towards your enemies is not very Christian at all.

Peace,
RT

Richmond T. Stallgiss writes:

"Dr. Thistlethwaite and her coterie are cynics who think of Focus on the Family only as hypocrites and political thugs."

You say that like it's a bad thing to say. Why?

WG writes:

"McCain made an off-color joke about his wife in public. That's less offensive than adultery."

McCain committed adultery numerous times with numerous partners while married to his first wife.

What's your point?

I wrote:

"biting our political process in the rump...and big time"

Amy asks:
"OK MrMark- there is one particularly "BIG TIME" rump running for first lady- what's ur point?"

No point. The phrase is "getting bitten in the butt," BUT, as I had already used the word "butt" and it's intended double entendre earlier in the same post, I modified the phrase the final time around for the sake of variety.

That's it. I can't imagine what you might be reading into my perfectly innocuous post.

BTW - Vote Obama.

Susan, I challenge you to now write that Edwards' (alleged) love baby categorically disqualifies him from office. You're getting self-righteous to score political points.

McCain made an off-color joke about his wife in public. That's less offensive than adultery. I think neither is a career killer for a politician because personal and private values and habits can be decoupled from projected public performance and competence. I won't vote for McCain for other reasons (I hate the GOP), but not because of what happened on a stage in front of a bunch of leather fetishists who compensate for something by riding big noisy bikes.

Would you judge Bill Clinton the same way? He didn't strike me as too respectful.

Dr. Thistlethwaite and her coterie are cynics who think of Focus on the Family only as hypocrites and political thugs.

I will never forget how Obama gave his "first major speech on religious issues" at the UCC's 50th anniversary "celebration" and assailed the integrity of non-progressives whom he asserted had "hijacked" Christianity. That speech solidified my feeling that the UCC has no respect for non-leftists. The tone of Dr. T's post here is a continuation of that ugly sentiment.

Obama, like the UCC, has no tolerance for differing viewpoints. Both maintain a childish fear of conflict that interprets any dissenting critiques as "attacks."

Peace (with justice),
RT

"biting our political process in the rump...and big time"

OK MrMark- there is one particularly "BIG TIME" rump running for first lady- what's ur point?

Mr Mark!

Any hopes of making an intelligent reply to your post about McCain offering his wife's body to obtain the light beer vote is gone... I am still ROTFLMAF! Your choice of appropriate words and phrases is priceless - 'tit for tat', for one of many examples, had me weeping with laughter. Well done, 12 point outta 10! Keep it up!

Those keeping abreast of the Nudie Pageant at Sturgis should be taken aback by Sen McCain allowing his wife to become the butt of internet and political jokes. McCain's suggestion that wife Cindy could well become the bosom buddy of a gaggle of high-heeled, scantily dressed motorcycle girls (aka "the women who love to ride") is pretty distasteful.

Taking the Straight Talk Express to the Scene of Undress is probably not what Cindy had in mind when she signed on for this long and hard campaign. Going from wooing the body politic to wowing with one's political body is hardly a recipe for success.

Let's hope McCain's offering up his wife to enter a topless beauty contest doesn't set some kind of precedent. The idea that candidates wives would go tit for tat in a nudie contest to firm up their husband's support among the hard riders is something that could end up biting our political process in the rump...and big time.

The reason religious conservatives won't go after McCain for attending this event or disrespecting his wife in that manner is because Religious Conservatives don't really believe what they say. Religious Conservative leaders (like Pro-Life leaders) know it's all a crock - all they want are the trappings of power. They know they have a willing audience of weak minded folk, people too infantile to cope with the fact of their own non-existance. They use these poor fools to prop themselves up, living in palaces while their contributers eat dogfood while living in trailers.

I think Professor Thistlethwaite is correct about McCain's puerile comment to the bikers and the religious right's silence about his comment. However, I may need some help from her explaining how McCain's "The One" ad ridicules a candidate "for having faith and showing it and ridiculed people of faith for feeling passionate about changing the state of their country." I think the ad is skwering Obama's faith in himself, not his faith in God, and his supporters' messianic language to describe Obama. Hopefully, this ad, and even the somewhat juvenile "Celebrity" ad, may provoke Obama to display a little more humility and his supporters to use a little more measured language to describe their candidate. Wheter this ad does the trick or not, something needs to! Otherwise, a remarkably gifted and intelligent leader could see his presidential ambitions thwarted by his own hubris and his suporters' silliness.

a sticker on a car read
God is just too big for one religion"

I agree with Professor Thistlethwaite's criticism of McCain's puerile comments to the bikers. However, I think I need some help understanding exactly how McCain's "The One" ad ridicules a candidate "for having faith and showing it and ridiculed people of faith for feeling passionate about changing the state of their country." Faith in what? I think the ridicule in the ad is directed at Obama's faith in himself, not his faith in God, and the messianic language used by his supporters. Obama and God shouldn't be mistaken as one in the same. McCain's satirical ad may provoke a little more humbling of both Obama and some of his supporters. Something needs to! Otherwise, one of the most intelligent and gifted politicians we've seen in my lifetime may have his presidential aspirations thwarted by his own hubris and his supporters' silliness.

Mr.Mark-it's not worth the time it takes to type in a faux name. I've made my point and unlike you who posting here is the highlight of your day- I have a life and I work.

I am no longer responding to posts with the moniker "Anonymous." If you're too lazy to come up with a moniker for yourself that allows the rest of us to know with whom we're chatting, then, screw you.

I believe Arminius is joining me in this action. I would encourage others to do the same.

Athena, Do I get any points for a repeat post? Because this post from Berlinblau's is worth repeating:

"Obama pokes fun.. by parodying"

Is that like Obama's pastor for twenty years was "just being provacative" when he said:

“We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye.”

“We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America’s chickens are coming home to roost.”

“The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, God damn America..”

“In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01. White America and the western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just ‘disappeared’ as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns.”

“Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!…We [in the U.S.] believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God.”

“Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary would never know that. Hillary ain’t never been called a nigger. Hillary has never had a people defined as a non-person.”

“Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill has been good to us. No he ain’t! Bill did us, just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.”

“The Israelis have illegally occupied Palestinian territories for over 40 years now. Divestment has now hit the table again as a strategy to wake the business community and wake up Americans concerning the injustice and the racism under which the Palestinians have lived because of Zionism.”

Obama disowned his longtime beloved mentor and told him to shut up.

But Obama can't stop speaking:

"Something is stirring in America, but let me tell you- people are telling you not to believe in it"

"We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek"

"I have become a symbol of the possibility of America returning to our best traditions."

BARACK OBAMA- One World. One Dream.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Vbtz_z7WU

Anyone who can listen to this video and not feel nauseous is a true Obama Cultist.."

I can see you have no experience campaigning Mr. Mark. If the media showed us every gaffe- we would never hear about the issues:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxBX8sz3tO8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

Good column, Susan.

It's really quite simple: our "liberal media" refuses to cover anything untoward about Republicans until it reaches the breaking point. There is a clear, CLEAR double standard when to comes to media coverage of Ds v Rs.

Moreover, while the media seems obsessed and intent on creating Democratic "problems" - which often amount to no more than regurgitating the latest set of talking points from the RNC - they bend over backward to IGNORE actual "problems" that have surfaced about any Republican politician.

Teflon John McCain is just the latest R to be declared "off limits" by the media. Imagine the firestorm if Obama had attended Sturgis and made statements identical to those made by McCain about his wife? Imagine if Obama was the candidate making foreign and domestic policy gaffes on a thrice-daily basis, rather than McCain? Imagine if Obama's campaign was the campaign that was veering blindly from stupid ad to embarrassing personal appearance to being out of touch with reality as is McCain?

For anyone to imagine that here is not a double standard here is to deny that the sky is blue.

Imagine if it was Obama rather than McCain who couldn't remember a question 10 seconds after it was asked? Any reason that this video from way back on AUGUST 1, 2008 of McCain unable to recall a question someone had asked seconds before is NOT being played ad infinitum by the media (think: Jeremiah Wright videos)? Watch for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfkKk2C1W1c

haha- I hadn't seen that, Athena.

I guess I get less points than you. You posted the link!

So I'm posting a Mccain ad- I want a biggety bonus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSpcxkKlEFA

Gee Athena- I went to Berlinerblau's thread to pinch the link and you've been over there racking up the McCain points.

Slack off, girl. I can't keep up with you.

The silence from the religious right on McCain's biker rally comment is rather deafening, now that you mention it.

But he doesn't have to worry about the James Dobson - he needs to worry about Cindy McCain. He might wish he was back in the Hanoi Hilton.

Hey Jerry... how many McCain points did you get for posting that?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/06/AR2008080603589.html

Surprised you are not yet aware of this, Susan. When it comes to walking the walk vs. talking the talk, "It's okay if you're a Republican".

Has anyone else noticed that Obama's campaign is centered almost entirely on his "story"? He has already written two autobiographies- Dreams From My Father, in 1995 and The Audacity of Hope in 2006. I've read both and still I wonder- What has he ever done? I'm having Obama fatigue. The media is so entranced and following him so blindly- his campaign is seeming cultish. And listen to him speak- he is sounding more like a tent preacher (Elmer Gantry) or a self-help guru (Tony Robbins) than a man ready to lead the free world through treacherous times.

The following is from Charles Krauthammer's blog. I read it recently and it really opened my eyes:

The Audacity of Vanity-

"In the words of his own slogan, "we are the ones we've been waiting for," which, translating the royal "we," means: " I am the one we've been waiting for." Amazingly, he had a quasi-presidential seal with its own Latin inscription affixed to his lectern, until general ridicule -- it was pointed out that he was not yet president -- induced him to take it down.

He lectures us that instead of worrying about immigrants learning English, "you need to make sure your child can speak Spanish" -- a language Obama does not speak. He further admonishes us on how "embarrassing" it is that Europeans are multilingual but "we go over to Europe, and all we can say is 'merci beaucoup.' " Obama speaks no French.

His fluent English does, however, feature many such admonitions, instructions and improvements. His wife assures us that President Obama will be a stern taskmaster: "Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism . . . that you come out of your isolation. . . . Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed."

For the first few months of the campaign, the question about Obama was: Who is he? The question now is: Who does he think he is?

We are getting to know. Redeemer of our uninvolved, uninformed lives. Lord of the seas. And more. As he said on victory night, his rise marks the moment when "our planet began to heal." As I recall -- I'm no expert on this -- Jesus practiced his healing just on the sick. Obama operates on a larger canvas."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/17/AR2008071701839.html

Another important irony exists here. The Sturgis Motorcycle Rally is the focus of considerable controversy for Native communities from throughout North America. Nearby Bear Butte, sacred to the Cheyenne and many Northern Plains people, is the site of prayer, fasting and ceremony during the summer months. Native communities have repeatedly protested the sacrilegious and extremely offensive nature of motorcycle rallies such as this, and recent approvals for the expansion of the "Sturgis County Line," 1oos of acres of minimally-regulated partying, drinking, and loud music, right in the shadow of one of the most sacred sites in North America. [Try to imagine this same event in the shadow of Vatican City.] That McCain would support such blatantly insensitive behavior demonstrates a disturbing lack of respect for religious traditions that date back thousands of years.

GARETH HARRIS wrote:
"IMHO, the only way to stop this is to: Tax the churches.
No more government subsidy for religion.
They are all bent on theocracy anyway.
This is the only way to religious freedom.
As Diderot said:
We shall never be free until the last king is strangled with entrails of the last priest."

Oh, I see. So, because there are instances where people have poorly demonstrated what their faith's values are we then need to dismantle every religious institution in existence. Does that sound about right?

Nonsense. If I applied your ill-conceived logic to, let's say, our government, the result would be ridiculous. Our own government makes mistakes, failing to support or enforce democracy from time to time. Does that mean we need to tear down our own government and replace it with *nothing*, as Diderot suggests? What Diderot missed is the fact that it's Human Nature that is flawed and keeps us imprisoned, not the systems. Until the day comes when ALL humans become *perfect*, NONE of us will be "free."

As for McCain....Obama won't need to run any negative ads against him because he's furiously digging his own political grave. Evidence of this caliber concretely prove McCain is NOT presidential material.

As much as I despise the whole pageant concept, if mu husband publicly indicated that he thought I could win a beauty contest wearing nothing but a pair of chaps, I'd take it as a compliment.

"it is fair to ask them to act on their own principles and object when the candidate is so far out of line"

We have to distinguish here between spoken principles and acted principles. When anyone describes their principles in terms that are distinctly contrary to their behavior, we can easily see we are being lied to.

Yeah, where are the "Concerned Women for America" on all of this? Doesn't it concern them that McCain is treating his wife like a cheap hooker? Can you imagine the sturm and drang if Barack Obama appeared at Black Bike Week and said something similar about Michelle?

Oh, but McCain gets a free pass because he's "pro-life" and a Republican. This is the guy who calls the press "my base".

Sometimes the truth hurts.

TAKING A LOOK AT THE FLIP-SIDE SHOULD ANSWER EVERY QUESTION SUSAN POSES IN HER POSTING. THERE IS A POLAR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING FAITHFUL AND BEING PERCEIVED AS THE MESSIAH OF THE WORLD:

"... a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany ... and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama" - Barack Obama- Lebanon, New Hampshire.
January 7, 2008.

OBAMA CONVERSION STORIES:

"Many even see in Obama a messiah-like figure, a great soul, and some affectionately call him Mahatma Obama."

-- Dinesh Sharma

"We just like to say his name. We are considering taking it as a mantra."

-- Chicago Sun-Times

"A Lightworker -- An Attuned Being with Powerful Luminosity and High-Vibration Integrity who will actually help usher in a New Way of Being"

-- Mark Morford

"What Barack Obama has accomplished is the single most extraordinary event that has occurred in the 232 years of the nation’s political history"

-- Jesse Jackson, Jr.

"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."

-- Barack Obama

"Does it not feel as if some special hand is guiding Obama on his journey, I mean, as he has said, the utter improbability of it all?"

-- Daily Kos

"He communicates God-like energy..."

-- Steve Davis (Charleston, SC)

"Not just an ordinary human being but indeed an Advanced Soul"

-- Commentator @ Chicago Sun Times

"I'll do whatever he says to do. I'll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear."

-- Halle Berry

"A quantum leap in American consciousness"

-- Deepak Chopra

"He is not operating on the same plane as ordinary politicians. . . . the agent of transformation in an age of revolution, as a figure uniquely qualified to open the door to the 21st century."

-- Gary Hart

"Barack Obama is our collective representation of our purest hopes, our highest visions and our deepest knowings . . . He's our product out of the all-knowing quantum field of intelligence."

-- Eve Konstantine

"This is bigger than Kennedy. . . . This is the New Testament."..."I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don't have that too often. No, seriously. It's a dramatic event."

-- Chris Matthews

"[Obama is ] creative imagination which coupled with brilliance equals wisdom . . . [He is] the man for this time."

-- Toni Morrison

"Obama's finest speeches do not excite. They do not inform. They don't even really inspire. They elevate. . . . He is not the Word made flesh, but the triumph of word over flesh . . . Obama is, at his best, able to call us back to our highest selves."

-- Ezra Klein

"Obama has the capacity to summon heroic forces from the spiritual depths of ordinary citizens and to unleash therefrom a symphonic chorus of unique creative acts whose common purpose is to tame the soul and alleviate the great challenges facing mankind."

-- Gerald Campbell

"We're here to evolve to a higher plane . . . he is an evolved leader . . . [he] has an ear for eloquence and a Tongue dipped in the Unvarnished Truth."

-- Oprah Winfrey

“I would characterize the Senate race as being a race where Obama was, let’s say, blessed and highly favored. That’s not routine. There’s something else going on. I think that Obama, his election to the Senate, was divinely ordered. . . . I know that that was God’s plan."

-- Bill Rush

How in the world is McCain even close to Obama in the polls?

Who does this pandering, position-flipping, short-tempered, utterly anemic candidate appeal to?

The problem of "faking faith" in public is one that Jesus addresses when he instructs his listeners to "pray in secret" to be heard by the Father in heaven, rather than settle for the reward of public awareness of one's religious practice. Let us acknowledge, at the very least, that we can never truly know the inner faith of any candidate. It follows then that we should not base our political decisions primarily on any public demonstration of faith.

IMHO, the only way to stop this is to: Tax the churches.
No more government subsidy for religion.
They are all bent on theocracy anyway.
This is the only way to religious freedom.

As Diderot said:
We shall never be free until the last king is strangled with entrails of the last priest.

I agree that something should have been said by Focus or American Family Radio about this incident. God forbid Obama should have said the same thing. If so, he would have been roasted on a spit by these guys. The fact that there is no mention of this in the Faith-wing media shows that these organizations are nothing but free advertising for the Republican party and as such should have their non-profit tax write-off revoked. Hypocrisy is a dual-edged sword, my friends.

Amen.

http://www.missionmeeting.org/spandau/