Pfleger: Bully in the Pulpit

Over the top theatrics of a Catholic priest while preaching his sermon is terribly embarrassing to watch. How pathetic if he needs such a style to get his message across! Preaching a sermon as if he were campaigning for Senator Obama using low level tactics is a matter, thank God, Fr Pleger has had the decency to apologize for.

You wrote: "Women in leadership get this double-whammy all the time; you have to be strong and not show emotion to be seen as a leader and when you don’t show emotion people say you are cold and unfeeling. I had hoped that stereotype of women had died in the 1970’s, but apparently not for Pfleger."

Perhaps the double-whammy applies not just to women. I note many people, including Clinton supporters, complain that Obama's denunciation of Pfleger's remarks were "not strong enough," as if Obama had to breathe fire himself to satisfy them.

Fr. Pfleger was born and raised on the South side of Chicago. What is with the imitation, stereotypical Black preaching style? I find that phony speech rather offensive and patronising. Fr. Mike has done many good things for his community and hopefully will accomplish much more in the future. Does he not trust the people he serves to accept him as he is?

Thank you for your words. The priest in question should be disciplined, as his behavior is unbecoming of one entrusted with a position of spiritual leadership. I'm also thinking his behavior is both unethical and verbally abusive; forget appropriate for a priest.

Are these men merely vain? They appear to see the present hour as a personal opportunity to garner fame. Sadly, video feed appears to indicate their words are being received and reacted to with enthusiasm. Thank you for this article.

Your candid comments re: Rev. Pfleger's "sermon" are much appreciated. Thank you for having the courage and integrity to speak up.

Rev. Pfleger's rant was offensive and disturbing at so many levels, it's hard to fathom. It saddens me when hate is perpetuated in the name of God. I've seen it among clergy of many denominatiosn. I like many - pehaps wrongly, expect a higher level of goodness and right action from clergy.

It is offensive that Rev. Pfleger, a man having taken sacred vows, a man who presides over the sacrements, so sullies all that he touches with his venomous speech. As a Catholic, I'd sooner die in sin, than have Rev. Pfleger or anyone like him give me the last rights.

I agree with Ron, but not his inference that the priest should be defended. The comments on Hillary's tears were correct, but the priest was goofy for trying to blame it on a "white" attitude, rather than a Clinton attitude.

The priest is accurate in saying Hillary's tears revealed her sense of entitlement. Those who say Hillary was just showing harmless emotion are off base. There is a big difference between her verklempt moment and those of others who have choked up on camera.

Of course there's nothing wrong with welling up with emotion over something one loves or finds virtuous. But the opposite of such loving emotion is when one chokes up with self-pity and frustration with being denied something. Hillary's moment came only after her loss in Iowa and what was then looking like a loss in N.H. In that situation, and considering her words at the time, her tears welled from self-pity and frustration.

While she claimed her tears were from her overwhelming desire to "help others", that was obviously disingenous. Much closer to the truth was her saying at the time that people failed to see that she, not Barack, was the one who was "ready" to lead this country. That revealed the worst, not the best, in human nature. While her crying evidenced an injured ego, her words revealed clearly her sense of entitlement being denied.

A man's political career would end immediately if he were to tear up with that sort of emotion.

I agree with Ron, but not his inference that the priest should be defended. The comments on Hillary's tears were correct, but the priest was goofy for trying to blame it on a "white" attitude, rather than a Clinton attitude.

The priest is accurate in saying Hillary's tears revealed her sense of entitlement. Those who say Hillary was just showing harmless emotion are off base. There is a big difference between her verklempt moment and those of others who have choked up on camera. There's nothing wrong with welling up with emotion over something one loves or finds virtuous.

But the opposite of such loving emotion is when one chokes up with self-pity and frustration with being denied something. Hillary's moment came only after her loss in Iowa and what was then looking like a loss in N.H. In that situation, and considering her words at the time, her tears welled from self-pity and frustration.

While she claimed her tears were from her overwhelming desire to "help others", that was obviously disingenous. Much closer to the truth was her saying at the time that people failed to see that she, not Barack, was the one who was "ready" to lead this country. That revealed the worst, not the best, in human nature. While her crying evidenced an injured ego, her words revealed clearly her sense of entitlement being denied.

A man's political career would end immediately if he were to tear up with that sort of emotion.

I guess nothing should be said about North American Wasps in the US and their part in killing Indians and putting blacks into slavery. I find white WASP women so annoying when they try to define what is good and moral in our country. Remember they were the mothers of slave holders, and nurtured hatred in white people who committed genocide in the American Indian. Just like Hillary Clinton, Susan Brooks is showing how dumb white women people can be.

I agree with Ron. The comments on Hillary's tears were correct, but the priest was goofy for trying to blame it on a "white" attitude, rather than a Clinton attitude.

I believe that there is a big difference between her verklempt moment and those of others who have choked up on camera. There's nothing wrong with welling up with emotion over something one loves or finds virtuous.

But the opposite of such loving emotion is when one chokes up with self-pity and frustration with being denied something.
Hillary's moment came only after her loss in Iowa and what was then looking like a loss in N.H. In that situation, and considering her words at the time, her tears welled from self-pity and frustration.

While she claimed her tears were from her overwhelming desire to "help others", that was obviously disingenous. Much closer to the truth was her saying at the time that people failed to see that she, not Barack, was the one who was "ready" to lead this country. That revealed the worst, not the best, in human nature. While her crying evidenced an injured ego, her words revealed clearly her sense of entitlement being denied.

A man's political career would end immediately if he were to tear up with that sort of emotion.

I dare anybody to challenge father Plfeger's depiction of Hillary Clinton as not being dead on.
I don't understand why everyone has been reduced to walking on onion paper around her ...... we don't want to hurt her feelings and all. If this was a Saturday Night Live skit it would receive an emmy.

Putting on the mind of Christ is an excellent suggestion for any Christian, indeed for any person. I'm sure the people who heard your sermon at Trinity already know that Christ should be their model though. And there are many problems within the African American mindset and our approach to race and community problem solving.

However, it sounds as you were giving a sermon that should be given in a church that is majority white.

Blacks have been trying to have a "sacred conversation" about race for a long time. During the "old school" this country began to make progress when people really looked at themselves in the mirror.

But then Ronald Reagan came along and implied that all blacks on welfare are frauds. A political operative named Atwater came up with the "Willie Horton" commercials and all blacks were characterized as sinister. Then a man came along with a book called "The Bell Curve" that suggested that all white people were just a bit smarter than black people.

The problem is; many white Christians believe this garbage. They believe that there is little discrimination, and that if you don't succeed in America it has to be because you are living a sinful life. There is a view that white people and culture are supreme and a refusal to accept that there is and always has been an inherent advantage to being born white in this country.

In order to break through the fantasy that his been painted for whites bullying is needed quite frankly--and it has to come from other white people or they won't listen. The Holy Spirit may temper this at times, but it is the harshness of the critique that will ultimately spur someone walking in sin to change.

So, unfortunately both you and Pfleger were giving the wrong sermons in the wrong church last Sunday. At least you were invited. Many white churches would never even invite a person of color to preach unless they parroted the "party line," if then.

When are white people going to stop rejecting criticism about race and saying it's all "their" fault? I suppose this is progress. There used to be a time when discriminating against blacks was openly embraced, now it's no longer en vogue.

But we (both sides) still have plenty of inside work to do.

Mike:

Yes, Obama should have immediately denounced the General Betray Us ad. Absolutely. I am not going to not vote for Obama over that however.

I'll bet the congregation didn't get up and cheer Ms Thistlethwaite's sermon like they did the one by the Rev. Pfleger. This church's racist and divisive message is one of the reasons why we still have a race problem in America. It truly scares me that Obama took his young girls to this church to hear this message.

For a variety of reasons the United Church of Christ is being perceived in the popular mind as racist and sexist. The irony is for a church that has fought these things is breath taking. It is time for some political savvy here or we will wind up the day after the election wondering how we have contributed to the defeat of the values and beliefs we are deeply committed to and have sought to live out.

"While we are speaking of 527s, do you hold Obama responsible for not disavowing Moveon.org's "General Betrayus" slander? Of course not."

You seem mightily confused. Why would Obama disavow the truth, that Petreus is another administration shill and apologist - liar - for the criminal Iraqi war? Bush replaced all of the good generals, the ones that kept reporting what a poor and delusional job Bush was doing, with lapdogs like Petreus, who simply bray the admin line.

Slander? Is that what the far right calls truth these days?

Get over yourself. It's over. Bush "Betrayed" Us the day he invaded Iraq. He's a war criminal just beginning to get his due.

I'm not a big fan of Paul. He was sort of a misogynist, or maybe just misanthropic, paranoid with his views on sex and, apparently, non-propagation of the species.
That aside, these psycho religious pastors for both Obama and McCain are poster halos for the validity and necessity of the separation of church and state.

Keep these nutbags out of politics.

While we're at it, someone give Joe Lieberman a mental exam. I think the poor boy's gone a bit mental, being a Jewish supporter of a Christian extremist pastor who says God sent Hitler to make Jews go to Israel.

Robert Jensen,

The Heart of Whiteness: Confronting Race, Racism and White Privilege.

In Jensen's view, a system that denies non-whites their full humanity also keeps whites from fully realizing their own humanity. The key to a truly non-racist society, he says, is to identify and confront liberal platitudes that sometimes conceal the depths of racism.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5539692

http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/freelance/whiteprivilege.htm

WHITE PRIVILEGE SHAPES THE U.S.

Robert Jensen
School of Journalism
University of Texas
Austin, TX 78712

"...I know I did not get where I am by merit alone. I benefited from, among other things, white privilege. That doesn't mean that I don't deserve my job, or that if I weren't white I would never have gotten the job. It means simply that all through my life, I have soaked up benefits for being white. I grew up in fertile farm country taken by force from non-white indigenous people. I was educated in a well-funded, virtually all-white public school system in which I learned that white people like me made this country great. There I also was taught a variety of skills, including how to take standardized tests written by and for white people...

led me to rethink the way I talk about race and racism with students. It drove home to me the importance of confronting the dirty secret that we white people carry around with us everyday: In a world of white privilege, some of what we have is unearned. I think much of both the fear and anger that comes up around discussions of affirmative action has its roots in that secret. So these days, my goal is to talk openly and honestly about white supremacy and white privilege.

White privilege, like any social phenomenon, is complex. In a white supremacist culture, all white people have privilege, whether or not they are overtly racist themselves. There are general patterns, but such privilege plays out differently depending on context and other aspects of one's identity (in my case, being male gives me other kinds of privilege). Rather than try to tell others how white privilege has played out in their lives, I talk about how it has affected me.

I am as white as white gets in this country. I am of northern European heritage and I was raised in North Dakota, one of the whitest states in the country. I grew up in a virtually all-white world surrounded by racism, both personal and institutional. Because I didn't live near a reservation, I didn't even have exposure to the state's only numerically significant non-white population, American Indians.

I have struggled to resist that racist training and the ongoing racism of my culture. I like to think I have changed, even though I routinely trip over the lingering effects of that internalized racism and the institutional racism around me. But no matter how much I "fix" myself, one thing never changes--I walk through the world with white privilege..."

WHITE PRIVILEGE SHAPES THE U.S.

Robert Jensen
School of Journalism
University of Texas
Austin, TX 78712

i thought wp censures would be snorting and chasing fags on a fri nite

MikeinPhilly:

"Mike -- example of Republican smear and guilt by association -- Swift Boat Veterans. Bush did nothing to stop or disavow that smear."

Well, that's not what I was asking. The original poster said that Bush smeared people by association. Even if Bush was complicit with the Swift Boat Vets, that was no smear by association. Can you cite such an example as I requested? Your failure to do so implies you can't.

While we are speaking of 527s, do you hold Obama responsible for not disavowing Moveon.org's "General Betrayus" slander? Of course not. Because you are a liberal, you have one set of rules for people that share your narrow views and another set of rules for people who don't.

But hey, why even bother asking you folks to back up anything you say. You have already decided that anyone who doesn't share your narrow and uninformed views is "stupid", so who cares about facts. I mean you are a liberal, so you can "smear" anyone you want with grade school ad hominem attacks.

You have articulated my sentiments exactly.

What left me gobsmacked by "Father" Pfleger was an extremely peculiar tone of his "sermon." For heaven's sake, to be FOR Blacks, you don't have to be ANTI white! It was bizarre. He appealled to victimhood. Many blacks are very successful. They don't need pitying. I found it very insulting to both blacks AND whites!

Did Clinton or McCain pay Pfleger to torpedo Obama's campaign? Only one person would be devious enough to do that: Karl Rove, and I highly doubt he was involved. You do have to wonder though. Who invited Rev. Wright to speak at the National Press Club. Had to be either (a) a Republican, (b) an idiot, or (c) the press (that may be redundant of (b).

Joe -- Pfleger's apology -- what bunk! He goes there knowing the place is under a microscope, does something incredibly stupid with his eyes wide open, knowing what the consequences will be (as demonstrated by his fellow idiot Rev. Wright's antics), and says "Oh, I got carried away, I'm sorry." Both of them are egomaniacs who are in love with the camera (and hence with themselves). And that is coming from me, an Obama supporter who will remain so!

Mike -- example of Republican smear and guilt by association -- Swift Boat Veterans. Bush did nothing to stop or disavow that smear. It's no answer to say de didn't personally fund the ads. That's like saying "it depends on what the meaning of the word is is." (Yes, he was a liar too). Any such distinction is a hypertechnicality.

Here's another: smearing anyone who would even dare to suggest that the president should be reasonable, and exercise diplomacy and speak with the head of a country with which we are at odds.

Why do we need to find specific examples to point out what everyone knows: Bush is a dishonest individual to the core, not to mention completely inept and incompetent and stupid. I can't believe anyone would embarrass themselves by attempting to defend anything Bush ever did.

You were there??? Did you see whether it was Clinton or McCain who paid this guy off? He can't possibly be so stupid as to have done this on his own.

Obama is truly a part of TUCC. I am sure they all worked hard to get him where he is today.

He is very versed at to what goes on at the church, His friends and mentor being Rev. Wright.

So he fully knows and understands, The feelings and sentiments the church is built on.

He Adheres to them rather well. TUCC is a major part of his life, his career and his future.

He owes them everything. They know that and are banking on it.

Coming together in spite of our differences does not mean we minimize the differences that do exist. It does not mean we pathologize the people who point out the differences. Difference is a part of diversity, and diversity cannot be recognized for the beautiful thing that it is if we are not willing to honor and make room for our differences.

Overcoming the "politics and religion of polarization" as you term them, is not accomplished by ignoring whatever exists at the poles. Synthesis is accomplished by the unifying of anthithesis and thesis. How does a synthesis emerge when both candidates and the church refuse to speak candidly about the under side of race in American society?

There was nothing in Pfleger's sermon that advanced the "idea that you should inflame people’s hatred of one another as a way to mobilize voters." Do you think that that is what was happening at Trinity in response to
Father Pfleger said? I was there, and I think that is a distortion and misrepresentation.

Yes, Hillary is the first viable female presidential candidate, and I can understand why you, as another powerful woman, might be deeply offended by Pfleger's portrayal of her. But the truth of the matter, Dr. Thistlewaite, is that Hillary Clinton has used race unashamedly throughout her campaign in order to mobilize white voters, to trumpet her electability, and cast aspersions on Obama's electability as a black man. She has not been at all honorable in this, and yet you don't seem to think she felt entitled to the nomination because she was white? You don't think that the issue of electability, and the way Clinton repeatedly raised it, has something to do with her sense of white entitlement and white privilege? (In case you don't remember, Clinton co-signed one of her surrogates who said that Hispanics don't vote for black candidates. She also recently tried to sell her strength with white, working class voters.)

This is what was missing from your sermon, and what is missing from Obama's campaign. Yes, yes, yes, we should all come together. Yes! But we should do it in a way that acknowledges the overarching and often invisible framework of white supremacy that will undergird any coming together and determine the way in which it occurs. Already white supremacy is defining the terms of the coming together: to come together, you must not ever speak about white skin privilege in American society. Again I ask, at whose cost will the coming together occur?

Does Rev. Thistlewaite speak for the Trinity UCC pastor who thanked the priest for his message and for the messenger?

It doesn't seem so.

Something about this article just isn't right.

Dr. Thistlewaite,

I am a member of Trinity UCC, and I did not feel disrespected by Father Pfleger's sermon.

I enjoyed your sermon at the 7:30 a.m. service, and was delighted to see you walk the aisle afterwards.

I also enjoyed Father Pfleger at the 6:00 p.m. service, and though my eyebrows raised at the mention of political candidates, I was nonetheless delighted to hear his bold, prophetic preaching.

I noticed that in your sermon you emphasized the theme that we are more alike than we are different. In doing so, it was clear to me that you were intentionally striking a different chord than Rev. Wright struck in his recent public appearances, i.e., the theme that "different does not mean deficient." There is no conflict between the two. In all, I appreciate both chords, and think they both have a place in the music of the church.

Clearly, Father Pfleger struck a chord that was also resoundingly different from yours, but, I would respectfully add, not at all deficient in comparison. Some notes are gentle and sweet, and some are thunderous and terrible. What matters most, I think, is whether or not they are truthful. Father Pfleger's contribution to the sacred conversation on race was a constigation of white privilege and white supremacy. Was he dishonest? Did he say something that was not truthful? This is the grounds upon which I think he should be critiqued.

We can all find common ground and common purpose while still acknowledging the existence of white supremacy, white entitlement and white privilege. Or can't we? And if we can not, why not? At whose expense must the silence about this issue be maintained?

Sad that Pfleger as well as Rev Wright have no respect for people, respect for church and respect for country. For their Out burst and behaviors from the pulpit.

They must have a different type of christianity, than I was rasised with. Where Love, forgiveness abound. Where we are all Gods children on earth.

They teach racism and hatred and prodding people against people in the name of the lord. They preach it and instill it in the hearts and minds and souls of their followers.

Sadder than that, those that stand and applaud them, and cheer them on. They do it from only knowing and following the ways they were taught.
Anyone who does that in the name of the lord, Does not know the lord.

Those who condone it, or let it happen are as quilty as doing it.

Some needs to take a Stand and stop this and take the true message of God to these people. Before they are led down the wrong paths any longer.

Maybe it's time for us all to stop paying so much attention to preachers and pastors and priests. They either say stupid things, or they just talk about vague and unimportant notions that are supposed to inspire us. Let's hear what real leaders, in all different fields of human endeavor, have to say about the world around us.

Susan,

Before I dive into this blog, which, I fear, harbors much hatred and divisiveness, I would like to say this about your post: TWO THUMBS UP, THREE IF I COULD MANAGE IT! You speak the words of our risen Lord. Pathetically, 'Father' Pfleger was only after his 15 minutes of fame. He defiled the pulpit, he defiled the teachings of Jesus.

Thank you!

Arminius

What is actually true is this: Black folk (of whom I am not one) have supported the democrats for many years now. They are not stupid. If Hillary Clinton does get the nomination it will only be because the superdels have decided that America is too racist to vote for Senator Obama. If that happens you can absolutely count on the black vote to be between 25-50% off its normal count. Hillary will lose and lose in a very big way. Black folk know that Hillary winning all those southern states was all about white racists voting for her. The fact that they are democrats doesn't change the fact that they voted for her because they are terrified that the black man, once in power, will seek to even the score and they know, they "know" that they have been profiting from the position of the races in the south for many years now.

I don't agree with Pfleger's sermon, but it isn't very surprising that Black folk react this way after the spring that we have had. The Clinton supporters may want to see it one way, and they may have many points about the way the media has treated Senator Clinton, but the facts are there: Black folk believe that they are bearing the brunt of the desire for power that the Clintons seemingly show.

It will be interesting to see if the Democrats can come back from this. I believe Senator Clinton believes that the Republicans are so wounded that they cannot win in the fall no matter who runs against them. Thus she is willing to dump the base of black folk from the electorate, for the sake of gaining power. She probably tells herself that they will be better off if she is president. How sad the lies we tell ourselves, eh?

America has the remarkable chance to elect the opposite of George W. Bush, in Barack Obama. He isn't perfect, but he is so far beyond any of the other candidates it isn't funny. Senator Clinton is a powerful and talented politician. Unfortunately she carries around with her a loose cannon, capable of blowing the whole thing away on a whim any time. Have we all forgotten Monica Lewinsky? I am not saying he will be doing the young girls in the white house. He's probably too old to get a good stiffie these days. But his lack of judgement lies at the center of a Hillary Clinton white house. Are we prepared for another four years of that madness? The Republican machine would love Bill back in the white house, as would most editorial cartoonists. Not to mention Saturday Night Live.

Give us all a break. Get past this small stuff. Keep your eyes on the big picture. There is a little period of time here where we can turn it all around. But we have to actually "change" something to do it. Will we? It'll be interesting to see.

"Independent:
Guilt by association has become prevalent as a smear campaign tactic in the politics of this country, especially by the Bush and Clinton camps."

Can you back this up with any facts? Please give me an example of the Bush camp "smearing" someone with guilt by association.

I love how liberals will just make up any absurd "fact" to back up their partisan hatreds.

I take great exception with the comments made by Joe on May 30th @ 5:51 and 5:54 PM. He asks what is a sacred conversation about race. There is no such thing. There can be an informative commentary, discussion, or debate on the subject; but sacred? I think not. If it is preached from a pulpit from a man or woman of God, and it is meant to insult any race or person, or that is preached to belittle anyone or anything, it is certainly not sacred. It is directly in opposition to God's command to love one another ... the second greatest commandment.

Do we have racial problems still existing in this country? You bet! But priests and preachers from the pulpit, if following their vows to preach for the purpose for furthering Christianity, the love, peace, and forgiveness of God, to approach controversial issues (FROM THEIR PULPIT) do not understand or take their vows seriously or just don't understand them.

I counter with this explanation. These preachers have no one but themselves in mind. They want the claps, cheers, and praises for negativism to promote THEMSELVES, earn attention for THEM from the media, and increase THEIR finances. Search out Rev. Wright, his earnings and new home, and you'll see that I speak the truth.

This type of behavior is not reserved for those in certain black churches only. You will find the same in other churches, even white, especially if they have slanted views of their positions and the way God would have them handle or solve them.

This priest is in it for his 15 minutes of fame, and the hope of more minutes and more speaking opportunities... which increase HIS finances. They, and those like him, are not agents of God but agents of Satan, because they do not follow the Word of God, or this discussion would not be occuring!

I am a member of the UCC chuch and am totally embarrassed by what I am hearing Rev. Pfleger did. I am going to write to the UCC and tell them, this is not what a minister of God is supposed to be doing, lowering him or herself to rhetoric, something Sen. Obama is desperately attempting to stay above, but his CHURCH, strangely enough is the one thing that may ruin his chances of the nomination and becoming president. I am a white woman, age 53 and very much for Sen. Obama, not really happy with Sen. Clinton right now, definitely not thrilled with Pr. Clinton, but for my church to be in the forefront in the way that it is, is saddening to me. I have attended that church in Chicago and when my pastors in Cleveland asked how I liked it, I said it was no better than a particular mostly white UCC church I attended at the time. It preached black power and of the 3,000 or so people in attendance, my daughter and I were the only non-black people there, as far as I could see. All churches should be welcoming to all people (especially the the UCC). It was a baptism Sunday so I gave it the benefit of the doubt with its black power message. I understand that at some point the mission of some of the segregated UCC churches are for those various people, black, gay, etc. to group together and gain strength, but a former leader of the UCC told me the greater mission was to then move those people out into the other churches to strengthen themselves and the churches, the goal was never to have segregated churches, which quite frankly the UCC seems to have an abundance of, and I know that was not the goal. I read an article in the beginning of the race to the nomination that the UCC was excited that a member was running for president and that it may help the church on various levels. I think it's hurting the church, certainly my view of the church. I understand the UCC lets their ministers kind of do their own thing, but who in the UCC National Headquaters thinks Rev. Pfleger is representing God (quite frankly) in a positive way? Rev. Wright I feel was a totally different subject, this new issue, Rev. Pfleger should be stripped of his leadership role in any UCC church.

I agree that there are these churches that are trying to indocitrinate hate for other races and that Obama is part of the problem by supporting that kind of church. I can't vote for Obama because he is a racist and I don't think that is the right quality that a president should have - especially of America. I can see that teh DNC is supporting a racist so I will also change parties since the democrats are now becoming a racist organization.

In thinking about Obama and the racism issue, one matter hangs like a chad in the balance: If he is about 'unity' then why isn't the woman who is responsible (yes the woman) for his place in history standing on the world stage next to her grandson busting her buttons???

Oddly enough we hear about his 'family' in Africa who, until he was in college had little to do with him, but what about his grandmother in Hawaii who raised him? Of her we hear nothing. Why?

My point is simple; any conversation about race must be a dialog (dia suggesting bidirectional). Tolerance is also a two way street, one way it becomes tyranny.

I agree with everything in Susan Brook's piece regarding the silly sermon of Fr. Pfleger -- EXCEPT for her take on Hillary's "showing emotion". I believe that there is a big difference between her verklempt moment and those of others who have choked up on camera. There's nothing wrong with welling up with emotion over something one loves or finds virtuous. But the opposite of such loving emotion is when one chokes up with self-pity and frustration with being denied something.

Hillary's moment came only after her loss in Iowa and what was then looking like a loss in N.H. In that situation, and considering her words at the time, her tears welled from self-pity and frustration.
While she claimed her tears were from her overwhelming desire to "help others", that was obviously disingenous. Much closer to the truth was her saying at the time that people failed to see that she, not Barack, was the one who was "ready" to lead this country. That revealed the worst, not the best, in human nature. While her crying evidenced an injured ego, her words revealed clearly her sense of entitlement being denied.

A man's political career would end immediately if he were to tear up with that sort of emotion.

Again, except as noted, I think Susan has written a very good response to Pfleger's destructive antics.

It started in 1972?! Obama is different?!

Wow. The founding fathers would be shocked. Jefferson and Jackson would laugh.

How silly.

Senator Clinton has often mocked Barack, belittling him, his qualifications to be president and his candidacy. Many persons have commented about the Clintons using race and racism to try to win votes, especially from working class, whites. Her repulsive, ghoulish comments about staying a candidate because something might happen to Barack are are a new low in modern United States history. The Clintons are widely perceived as believing they are entitled to be presidents, resenting Barack as an upstart, who did not wait his turn and hoping McCain will win, so they can try again in four years.

Senator Clinton openly called for the extermination, "massive retaliation" of Iran, if their leaders attack any country in the Middle East. Hardly a Christian value, but she received a free pass from supposed religious leaders, the media and the Obama camp.

Guilt by association has become prevalent as a smear campaign tactic in the politics of this country, especially by the Bush and Clinton camps.
The old politics of division, winning at virtually any cost is characteristic of how Bush won four years ago and how Clinton hopes to win this year.

So this pasters rants where offencive to the members of that church? Lie! Thats not what we see in that video.Most churchmemebrs where actually ectastic and cheering him.Tells a lot about your church and its memebr for 20+ years.A racist hater is one irrespective of they come in black white of blue color.How can a women like you go and preach in place like that which denigrates women?What did Hillary do to you people?

According to you it was actually poor Barack who was the victim of Pfleger’s hateful rants – and not Hilary Clinton?

Silly me to think his hateful words were about her, and were directed at her! Why would anyone think that?

And what about those fools in the robes who were sitting in the front row - laughing their heads off during Pfleger’s “sermon” - who were they?

Your rabid “no questions asked” support for Barack Obama has not only clouded your judgment it has corrupted your sense of right and wrong, and of offender and victim.

The "good" Father merely shows with his infamous sermon that bigotry often hides behind a false face and calls it God. No wonder Jesus wept. And the comments following the article serve to reinforce the fact that no one is NOT a bigot.

Wow... I Cor. 12 "put on the mind of Christ" what Bible are you quoting from?? Even The Message contains no such passage in First Corinthians.

The closest to "mind of Christ" comes in 1 Cor. 2:16 and bears no connotation whatsoever to how it is used in this "teaching".

Talk about creative use of the Word of G_d to slam someone who actually may have spoken truth but *offended* your ears. (I say "may have" because the writer fails to include Fr. Pfleger's statements for the reader to hold in contrast to Ms. Thistlethwaite's rather un-Christian attack.

This post should be titled "Bully from the Blogs"

As for the need of a 'sacred' conversation on race, how condescending. To acknowledge the need for such a 'conversation' is to suggest that those holding the conversation have issues with racism to begin with. To use Paul's letter to the believers (and already baptized) members of the Church of Corinth as an example of the need for a Kodesh conversation on race is a true stretch of Holy Scripture.

Lastly, the Rev. Susan infers by connotation that the politics of division began with a particular political party in the United States. Historically this is incorrect.

Division among the classes (race is a primary example) was originally outlined and refined as a means of advancement of social change through the Hegelian/Marxist dialectic, long before Rick Perlstein wrote his book.

Then again, Rev. Susan already knows this since she is a Senior Fellow at the Center for American Progress.

Good Word, Susan!
Very well said. Thanks for having the courage and the clarity of mind to express these very important observations.

Many of us are just so sick and tired of all of this, the puffed up preachers, the anger mongering media pundits both left and right - all of it. It is a sad day for the church - and for America - if this pitiful rubbish can pass for preaching anywhere.

Thanks for transcending the ignorance and carnality of Pfleger and his ilk by demonstrating the heart and mind of Christ. May he take notice and repent, and may your tribe increase!

The media's handling of the original Wright contraversy, is the cause of this one. The TUCC congregation lashed back at a solid month of defamations in the only way it could, by celebrating the personally vindictive, cynical remarks of a visiting white pastor from another Christian faith. Pleger's timing and choice of venue is also suspicious, 1 week before the last democratic primaries. Not sure if his anger got the better of him or he was paid off.
But a repeat performance was clearly done for media consumption.

The unregulated corporate media is destroying this democracy and many of you are rewarding them for it.

This is not religion. Its hate talk which evidently the people of Trinty church like.

In his address, Pfleger began by talking of the need to expose "white entitlement and supremacy wherever it raises its head."

Those who are calling his comments "hateful" must then be in full support of white entitlement and supremacy.

As an American of Irish ancestry and a Catholic, I'm disgusted by Fr. Pfleger's unchristian ranting against Senator Clinton. He exhibited his failure as a spiritual leader and lack of spirituality in one swoop. Pfleger requires an extended stay in retreat and a deep long look at whatever he's doing in his personal life that's led him so far from the teachings of Christ and the Catholic Church.

If Senator Obama did not notice anything amiss in 20 years of attending services at this church, he must have always been under general anesthesia during the services.
From the congregation’s cheers it is pretty obvious that Pfleger was preaching to choir.

Define "sacred conversation about race." Please.

Does it mean a quiet, hushed conversation, where no emotion is ever shown, or if it is, it's quickly nullified? Does it mean a conversation about race where only good, nice, kind things are said, and nothing negative is spoken? Does it mean a self-congratulatory "I'm OK, You're OK" group hug session where people spout blithe niceties to each other's faces, then go home later and mutter curses about the other person through clenched teeth? What does it mean for the conversation to be "Jesus-centered"? Does it mean never uttering ugly truths about ourselves and our nation in order to fix them? Jesus certainly would not have done that. He didn't pull punches with the Hebrews when it came to their iniquities. In fact, Jesus garnered SO MANY ENEMIES (not unlike Rev. Pfleger and Rev. Wright have done) that they ended up demanding that He be executed.

People in the pulpit are just that - PEOPLE. They aren't perfect human beings, and they shouldn't be expected to be perfect. Apparently Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite thinks she's qualified to cast the first stone, so she does. Sure, clergy should lead by example, but in the end, they are only human, and as prone to flaws and mistakes as anyone else.

Jesus is the only 100% perfect human being to ever live. But even He laughed, and even He got angry.

Rev. Pfleger immediately apologized for what he said, since he knew he was going overboard and being unkind. He realized his error as soon as he'd made it. Why does nobody acknowledge his honesty in doing that?

Rev. Thistlethwaite's commentary is as divisive as she claims Rev. Pfleger's is. And it's very "churchy," in that "I'm a better Christian than he is" tone. Yeah, Susan? You sure we won't find any dirty laundry in your room if we look?

I ask again - what exactly IS a "sacred conversation about race"? Is that a conversation where nobody really talks about it? Or is that conversation where race is whitewashed, and the dominant group gets to determine what will be discussed and how? Is it an HONEST conversation about race? Or is it a "look at us and how nobly pious and soft-spoken we are since we are Christians" feel-good exercise in self-delusion?

By the way, everyone who says that Rev. Wright and Rev. Pfleger are preaching "hate" are completely unaware of their white privilege AND ARE A PART OF THE PROBLEM, NOT THE SOLUTION.

It amazes me how people who have never attended Trinity United Church knows what Rev. Wright and others have been preaching for 20 years form it's pulpit. People come to these conclusions by getting clips from our 24 hour news outlets and internet about this ministry. We see these clips and we have no idea what was said before or after. We only see what they want us to see. Put your money where you mouth is and buy several sermons from Trinity Church and really find out what they are feeding their congregation. I guess it's easier to just make a uninformed opinion about something you don't even investigate to find the truth, but I guess that's the American way.

I appreciate your critique of this appalling sermon attacking Sen Clinton. It may be old politics, but it was clearly from his heart, judging from his passion in giving it.

More appalling was the the reaction of the people at the church - applauding, cheering, and in general having a very good time, as if it were a sports event or a variety show. That, to me, displays a scary group mentality, so easily motivated by a riveting speaker of divisiness and hate. I always thought good feelings should come out of a spiritual meeting. How does one understand the behavior of these parishoners at this church? How can they expose their children to sermons of this type?

What kind of a spiritual advisers does Sen Obama rely on? So far, they show they are full of hate.

I only wish the members of this church shared your disgust for the sermon. Most in the church were jumping up and down with joy at the message being delivered. Obama described this as typical in a black church. Unfortunately that sermon is anything but typical and I strain to hear any message from God anywhere in it. I was more offended by the remark that white people basically need to give up everything they own because the only reason they have anything is because of the racism in our their past.

For Obama to sit in a church like this listening to messages like this one week and a message like those we have heard from Rev. Wright the next week is very disturbing. Oprah was also a member of this church, yet she had the superior judgement to Obama in deciding to distance herself from the church many years ago. Up until a month ago Obama stood behind everything the church said.

NEVER!!! NEVER!! OBAMA!! What a prejudice piece of **** he is! You who support him are pathetic!

Susan, why try and defend this congration and this church. Don't you get it. The people who attend this church by and large love this kind of racial preaching and race baiting. You should get out of this denomination before you are totally assiminalated, if you are not aready. You are already painted with the same brush--its obvious the people of this church have been brainwashed by the pastors & church leaders they listen to. No wonder Obama Hussain Barack is not proud of his country, ditto wife and maybe children.
You need to see things as they look from outside your church affiliation-take the blinders off and run for your spiritual life. Church should be a place to lift people of spiritually - not a political circus. Get out while you can.!!!!

Is that what happened? I must admit that I didn't quite get the date on this. But also, from looking at the tape, it was hard for me to not wonder if this were not straight out parody ... it was that far over the top. (To me at least viewing it). It is such a noble endeavor, I think, for a church to take on the journey of such a discussion: a sacred conversation about race and gender. But it also requires, I am thinking, everyone understanding both the "space" and the "assumptions" under which the conversation is happening. I feel that those of us viewing this particular sermon and not from the congregation didn't (don't) have the context in which to understand it. Also, in a therapeutic sense we are possibly confounds to the process. Many times, these conversations are attempted in a somewhat sterile and externalized format where emotions and self-reflection are carefully crafted so as to not offend and not disrupt ... we wish to study carefully the forest without being in the forest, or recognizing our place in the forest and consequently our 'treeness'. : ) In conversations such as these ... isn't it that we have a certain expectation that the phenomena we experience as being related to race and gender become exposed? I am thinking in a therapeutic sense ... in order for us to be able to work with it ... doesn't it have to become available to us such that we are then in a state of awareness of how these things may function in our everday lives? I am not god ... and my being is encapsulated in a very concrete way by something called skin that defines me solely as human and contributes heavily to the way I might define myself and my experience as a soul having a very human existence (as the Hindus say ... I think). The father - it seems to me - has had a great opportunity to recognize rather vividly his own human nature. We tend to have expectations about the way that the clergy should be and where they may stand on the ladder of a rather strange hierarchy to god ... but they are people too, like us. And so I am wondering if there is a sensibility that the congregation holds in listenign to these sermons. Is there a 'break down' period (to use the old lingo)? I find it really dissonant - in what I consider both a sacred and therapeutic space - for a politician to be forced to make comment and even 'judgement'. I have great affection for what Senator Obama is attempting to do ... but personally I wonder if he should not tread carefully around this issue. The church - in this instance - has taken on a space where it strikes me some level of 'safety' is needed for its participants. This is akin to group therapy falling under the guidelines and practices overseen by the APA. While it is true that it is not formalized as such (certification, state recognition etc.) it still has many of the earmarks ... and it happens within the domain of the church - which has its own set of rules. Part of the process of what is happening in this sacred conversation is revealing the sores ... and it is a church - so shouldn't we be exercising a sensibility of oh ... love, compassion, understanding, non-judgement, er - more compassion? You know? Didn't Sharon Stone say she cried when she learned that the Dalai Lama was preparing to go (or send an envoy) to China to help with the earthquake? It is so much easier to denounce and walk away than to stay in the conversation - or to be understanding of the process and recognize the role that TIME plays in creating change. Because we are all on the same page about this - right? CHANGE? Can you change that which don't recognize in yourself? Isnt' it these human encounters that gives us these opportunities? ... and, some will say, our own sacred personal conversation with god/creation/the universal intelligence, that gives us the fortitude to face them?

Exactly right - the Michael Pflegers of the world are not amusing, just ignorant.

What I find disturbing more than anything is the double standard here. If McCain was a 20 year member of a church like this the uproar would be deafening. Just substitute white with black in any one of these sermons. Jesse and Sharpton would be on it immediately calling for the church to be shut down and the candidate member of said church to withdraw from the race. I find it truly frightening that Obama's supporters are still rallying behind this man.

I wonder. Which sermon got more cheering. Yours, or Mr. Pfegler's?

I agree with everything in Susan Brook's piece regarding the ridiculous sermon of Fr. Pfleger's -- except for the take on Hillary's "showing emotion". I believe that there is a big difference between her verklempt moment and those of others who have choked up on camera. There's nothing wrong with welling up with emotion over something one loves or finds virtuous. But the opposite of such loving emotion is when one chokes up with self-pity and frustration with being denied something.

Hillary's moment came only after her loss in Iowa and what was then looking like a loss in N.H. In that situation, and considering her words at the time, her tears welled from self-pity and frustration. A man's political career would end immediately if he were to tear up with that sort of emotion. While she claimed her tears were from her overwhelming desire to "help others", that was obviously disingenous. Much closer to the truth was her saying at the time that people failed to see that she, not Barack, was the one who was "ready" to lead this country. That revealed the worst, not the best, in human nature. While her crying evidenced an injured ego, her words revealed clearly her sense of entitlement being denied.

Again, except as noted, I think Susan has written a very good response to Pfleger's destructive antics.

Randall:

I guess you are under the mistaken impression that intelligent people calling those who don't share their narrow views "idiots".

They don't.

Dr. Brooks, I appreciate that you distance yourself from the hateful remarks made by Rev. Pfleger. But after looking at the tape of his outrageous sermon last Sunday, I cannot agree with your statement that his performance was disrespectful of members of the members of the United Church of Chicago: The people in the church loved what they heard so much that they jumped up and down from joy.
That's actually the part of the incident that I find most disturbing.

I keep reading on the internet how the Obama campaign is trying to move beyond this issue by dismissing it with words, usually from staffers telling us the story has been addressed and is now behind us. Why is it that some folks, left and right (and I am very, very far to the left), feel that they can dictate when an issue is closed and "we" are "ready for the next question"? The nice thing about living in a country with free speech is you can show your true colors and say what you want, as much as you want. It is not up to the Obama campaign, or anyone else, to decide when it is time for "us" to move on from this issue. I think it is a significant one, so I will think and talk about it whenever and wherever I want. And if I can get a comment posted online, even better. I am always uncomfortable (even in my own leftist circles, especially after a bottle of wine) when someone tries to end a discussion with something brilliantly spoken and then concludes that anyone who dares disagree is either Satan (if you are right wing and the pompous intellect is a right-wing friend), or a clan member (visa versa - left-wing). I was never crazy about the lack of information about Obama, and now I keep seeing associations that make me uncomfortable. I think having an opinion about someone based on the company they keep is valid - especially with politicians who try so hard to cover themselves. You can disagree, of course, but thank goodness I can still choose to take or leave what others have to say based on my own common sense...and oh, yeah...I still get to vote in the end. I could have been for Obama in the end, but this latest "friend" question is the last straw for me, and that WILL be the last question for me if the Obama staffers even care to know (they seem to be acting out a script from a TV show I and a lot of other people are not cast in, so, ummm, have fun ,with that you guys -- the rest of us are over here when you get tired of talking). And while I can't bring myself to vote Republican, I can still vote for Mickey Mouse, at least until a video surfaces with Donald Duck performing a black mass and waving a Confederate flag. Then, I might go ahead and consider the Libertarians.

God (so to speak) what you and the idiot

Berlinerblau will write to get a reaction.

I should think big post numbers by idiots don't count for much.

Largely,we know, they are the same people who go
from story to story, paper to paper, and write
wheever they can write their same old stuff?

How proud you must be. You didn't seem to be
an idiot at the first...

let him know how you feel:

pastorpfleger@ameritech.net

> Paul’s teaching

Paul's teachings, even the (probably) genuine ones, are a mixed bag at best. He was certainly not above divisiveness, vilification, etc.

Susan,

I am glad to read that someone who seems rational also preaches at that church. From my vantage point I am torn between not wanting someone from that church to run my country and understanding why Sen. Obama wants change. If I sat through the sermons we have been seeing in the videos I would want change too. Rev Wright mocked Sen. Clinton too when he said she doesn't understand discrimination. There isn't a successful woman in this country who hasn't had to endure discrimination on her way up. I was deeply offended by both these men's comments. They in fact have made me question how honest Sen. Obama is about his beliefs. How could he remain a member of such a church. I know I couldn't. This whole campaign has been so disrespectful of Sen. Clinton. Obama followers are constantly rude to her. She has done so much for this country in her entire adult life.

I appreciate your comments about having Christ-centered conversations regarding race. You write that the rant was disrespectful to the Trinity congregation. However, I found the reactions of those present to be as if they were agreeing, not as if they were shocked, dismayed, and walking out--as I would have if my church's Sunday morning guest speaker spoke as such.

For all that dis-respect, there seemed to be a lot of clapping, cheering, and hooting going on.... Maybe I missed the part where the congregation was shouting "Boo-Hiss, Stop the racial diatribe...."

Thank you for your message. How sad this old rhetoric keeps finding it's way to our national attention. On the other hand, maybe a little light of day - embarrassing as it is - will make those still caught up in old ways, more conscious of their own bigotry.

As a woman, I honor the right of people who have a different
point of view to express their view. Thomas Jefferson was known to say that he
enjoyed having an opinion so much that he can be generous
with another person expressing their opinion.

Marshall Rosenberg who teaches Nonviolent Communication is transforming the way people talk to each other.
He says that it's not a matter of who's right, but how can we make it better. Rev. Pfleger made us aware of the difficulty of shedding light on
some aspects in the Clinton campaign without disrepecting
the Clintons. I hope everyone takes a deep breath, brings their
attention to their heart and then speaks their truth while knowing that every other person has the same right. It means
alot when we can manage to do that without being mean. I
think Obama is gifted at doing that. After all, his mother was
a brilliant public servant, dedicated to helping people wherever
she was.

We live in a world that is based on Dualism; dualistic mind; dualistic thinking -- God/Man; spirit/matter; good/evil; separation/division; male/female; black/white; either/or; ad infintum, ad nauseum.

Within that framework of thought and thinking, and the beliefs, values and behaviors attendant to it, is a linear, vertically-oriented system based on fear and coercion (both internal and external) domination and submission, and the conflict and competition, that has been the history of mankind in all of its relations and relationships since time immemorial. Along with the resultant effects and consequences on our selves and each other that that way of thought and thinking engenders.

For it has created the world we've got -- and that's got us -- both for good and evil.

Suffice it to say that the crises we face individually and collectively at this particular time in history (and that we have all along) is directly attributable to this kind of thought and thinking.

And the only way out of it is to recognize what is the underlying non-dual reality that pre-exists the dualistic framework -- and that we are a part of, rather than apart from.

To know that is to know the oneness and the unity that underlie the whole of what has been historically a much-debated and hotly- contested "Reality" based on dualistic thinking -- whether by church or state -- and everything that arises out of it.

It is that Oneness and the nature of that Oneness that is in everything and everyone that is needed to be recognized, known, understood and embraced in our selves and each other.

Otherwise we stay locked in a pattern and cycle of violence and abuse along with its concomitant effects and consequences on our selves, each other and our world that inevitably lead to destruction, because of it.

It is a systemic problem that demands a systemic solution.

It is a spiritual problem that demands a spiritual solution.

I've voted Democrat since 1972 and George McGovern. But I'm so disgusted with Obama's two bigoted preachers that for the first time in my 36 years of voting, I'm voting Republican this year. It really scares me to think either of these bigoted clown preachers could have the slightest influence over my president.

So McCain, if there's room for a yellow dog Dem in your house, HERE I COME!

jp's above comments on white privilege is a semi myth. This surely did occur throughout the first sixty years of the twentieth century. But since then the tables have turned. Its no longer that the whites have privileges, its rather that blacks have now gained black privileges over whites. Example, in order to get into college who is privileged to get an edge of entering into many colleges, blacks are the ones that have been given the extra consideration over the whites, is this not a black privilege. You can say it was payback from previous years, but it none the less a privilege given to blacks over whites. The same goes for applying for a job, in many government jobs race is taken into consideration, if you are a minority you are given bonus points on exam tests to qualify for that job.

I am writing this not to create division but as a rebuttal of the white privilege syndrome. There are wrongs in our society that both whites, blacks, latino's and any other AMERICAN in this country need to address. However, the idea is not to badger each over who has gotten what privileges in the past, but rather how we can gain equality for all in the future. I am sure blacks feel that they have been downtrodden upon by whites, but I can tell you as a white I have probably been downtrodden by the same white, blacks etc that are the makeup of the rich and political class in this country.

You want to talk, lets talk openly about past regressions without expecting compensation, but rather resolution that the behavior will be eliminated in the future in order to make AMERICA better.

Someone wrote do we really want a arab as president, I say if that arab is a staunch supporter of democracy and American ideals, then why not. Its not the color, race, or religion that we should use as the criteria to select leaders, but their character, if they have values in kind with the majority of AMERICANS, if they believe in FREEDOM FOR ALL, and equal opportunities for ALL.

I agree the pulpit should be used to preach the love of GOD not find our differences to extend a culture of hate and misunderstanding.

We may need to hear what Reverend Wright and Father Pfleger's dialogue, but I believe this should be in a different forum. I am not afraid to hear ideas I don't agree with and I am not afraid to espouse my own ideas, but after that is done at the end of the day we need to move forward to do what is best for all of AMERICA.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Here we go again......Barack Hussein's family and friends are racist, radical extremists and sexist, and can not help themselves expressing their hate for America and non-black Americans.
Barack Hussein has developed close relationships over most of his life with individuals and organizations that practice their religion of hate towards white men and women and are pursuing a black supremacist ideology and destruction of America.

Barack is really a TROJAN HORSE, he seems innocent and presents an image of peace and unification, BUT as we now know, he is hollow and hides within a group of extremists waiting for the night, to come out of their hiding and destroy our country.
See what their true agenda is: blackradicalcongress.org.

Here we go again............We can be fooled once, twice, but we can not be fooled all the time!

Hillary or McCain is the only choice for americans that love and are proud of America!

Obama doesn't stand a chance with a religious history like his. This "church" will sink him without a doubt. Seems as though the republicans can't give The White House away!

"I think Pfleger and the congregation just drove myself and a very large number of voters into John McCain's hands."

This was the last straw for me. I am voting for McCain and I am an Irish Catholic Democrat. I will probably cry on the way home from voting, but better voting for McCain than a racist.

If you run with dogs long enough you begin to smell like one - if not act like one.

The new politics is the old politics dressed up in a new coat.

The only difference between Obama and the other candidates is race and gender!

Speaking of entitlements – why is it the African American folks feel entitled to his nomination? It is owed to them by white America? How long do they expect non-black to be played by the “guilt” card?

Are they not responsible for their own fate – even – in any circumstances?

Pfleger’s sermon was a bullying rant that was disrespectful of the members of Trinity United Church of Christ

TUCC's congregants didn't act like they were being disrespected, unless the normal response to disrespect is enthusiastic applause.

This sort of racially divisive rant is coin of the realm at TUCC. No one was the even a bit surprised that Pfleger said what he did, least of all a congregant of twenty years.

A pastor who has been given the gift of public speaking can manipulate the atmosphere and response of a congregation as surely as any well made movie. I know because I've done it. We preachers have a God given responsibility to use that gift for "the glory of God and our neighbors' good." The two most important tasks of the preacher are to get people to trust God and open the door to reconciliation between God and between people. On all these counts Susan is right in saying Father Pfleger's comic routine disrespected the congregation.

So who do we believe, you or the two pastors who have preached at this church for the last twenty years? Twenty years that Obama has sat there listening by the way.

I think that there was enough race card playing from Hilary's camp and enough visible entitlement to warrant the Reverend Pfleger's excellent stand-up routine.
Was it a good sermon? That remains to be seen.
Did the sermon help Obama? No.
Was there truth in the sermon? Well, excellent stand-up requires truth, eh?
Does it help a dialogue about race? Certainly.
Did the sermon imply some reparations are owed for
segregation? Most certainly.
Do conservatives want to pretend we have reached a
level playing field? Yeah!

Clint:

I am very heartened by your response. I guess I should not read more into "Bible-based" positions than might be intended. Obviously you do not want a theocracy, but from your earlier post I concluded incorrectly that you did. So we have both been "taken to school" if you will.

Best regards,

Mike

Pfleger is the same priest that encouraged supporters to, "snuff", business owners and state legislators who did not agree with his extremist views.

In watching the video, and all the people giving STANDING OVATIONS, clapping, cheering, etc. I find it impossible to believe the remarks were ..."disrespectful of the members of Trinity..." Apparently either they enjoyed being disrespected or you are engaging in some wishful thinking, wanting to believe that the church goers are something they are not.
The video speaks for itself.

1.I am a prostitute and back obama therefore Obama is a prostitute
2.I go to toilet every morning an i support Obama therefore Obama must have the habit of going to toilet every morning.
3.I eat beans and........................

Please lets talk about something more substantial in the American press for once the whole world is watching though and watching to see if America has really come of age.

It's instructive that the only time you mention the congregation, you say that Rev. Pfleger's sermon was disrespectful of them.

Strangely, the videos seem to show that they thoroughly enjoyed and agreed with his comments. Which leads one to ask: were YOU the aberration that day in that church, not Rev. Pfleger? And then, one might further ask what 20 years of attendance at a church that enjoys that kind of commentary would say about someone.

(Not to mention that Rev. Pfleger's apology, at least as reported in the paper I read, is one of the gutless sorry-if-I-offended-someone "apologies" instead of a true admission that what was said was WRONG. And not to ask, what if the speech were about Obama and made in a predominantly white church? Heads would roll -- as they should.)

In watching the video, and all the people giving STANDING OVATIONS, clapping, cheering, etc. I find it impossible to believe the remarks were ..."disrespectful of the members of Trinity..." Apparently either they enjoyed being disrespected or you are engaging in some wishful thinking, wanting to believe that the church goers are something they are not.
The video speaks for itself.

Did someone miss that this supposedly "racist" pastor is white? For all the white people here who think he is racist, how is that possible if he is white? As an someone who is not african american, but a minority living in this country and working in a all white atmosphere, I can say I personally observe the notion for many (not all) white individuals who have a sense of entitlement. I see that when I travel overseas and I see it everyday at work. For those of you who don't think it exists, try walking in the shoes of a person of color for a week and see how it works out for you. You might be a little shocked by the way your white counterparts treat you.

Excellent! All I can say is, thank God for your life, pastor Thistlethwaite.

How is it that the United States, built on the principle that religion has no place in politics has reached such a point? There is a serious education crisis in the U.S. that has allowed biblical literalism to reach such high levels.

why ooo why do you want an arab as president....better wake up before the azrabs take over...artie

Rev. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite is so right in her expression of how she feels about this incident. We have spent way too much time fighting each other and engaging in behave and deploying rhetorics that have kept us divided as a nation for too long now. Isn't it time for us to unite as one nation, disagreeing with one another when and where necessary but in a respectful, human and polite way?

Get over it! Read the 1st amendment a couple of times and then start looking at the issues facing this country. Another none article to stir the pot - leave it to the media to focus on none issues. Scotty was right - the 4th estate has failed us.

Your faux outrage is duly noted.

Brooks wrote:
"Instead, Pfleger’s sermon was a bullying rant that was disrespectful of the members of Trinity United Church of Christ, disrespectful of Senator Hillary Clinton and really also disrespectful of Senator Obama and his consistent message of finding common ground. "

I believe Plegers indignant pitiful display was more than that. I believe it was disrespectful to ALL Christians and Disrespectful to Christ himself.

A suggestion to clergy everywhere:

Preach the Gospel message sincerely. It is your duty. But seal your lips on matters of politics when doing so, and at all times inside a church. Otherwise, you are bound to offend, and you cannot exhibit the lovingkindness of our Lord while simultaneously being offensive to people, even to those with whom you might not agree. Heed what the letter of James says about controlling the tongue.

Yours in Christ,

Anon. R.C. Bisop

Rev. Thistlewhite,

While I find your concern for racial reconciliation and racial unity noble, your analysis of Rev. Pfleger's sermon illuminates your woeful ignorance of what such reconciliation requires: an empathetic understanding of context and experience. This is especially unfortunate as your bio reads that you are educated in liberationist theology. By reducing Pfleger's comments (specifically about Clinton) down to empty, racist rants, you've only successfully shown that you are unwilling to acknowledge the reality of that which dictates the social and political realities of black people(and which you yourself reap the benefits of): white privilege. To you, Rev. Thistlewhite, I say "get ready." If the conversation about race you and the UCC plan is anything worth having, the ugliness of white privilege must be seriously engaged.

But what I find most troubling about your commentary (and certainly the comments above)is that it illustrates the audacity of white people to determine how black people (and their white advocates) should respond to racism. It's evident by your commentary and the comments above that white privelege not only dictates how black people are treated, but also how they should respond to such treatment. Black people have endured centuries of oppression and injustice. Yet, the minute white people hear one un-diplomatic, in-your-face critique of this oppression, they have the nerve to cry, "foul."

If the commenters above are right about anything,it's that the folk at Trinity weren't offended by Pfleger's sermon. But they aren't uncritical, weak-minded followers. They know what Pfleger was preaching is the truth...a truth that many white people are unwilling to acknowledge in the vain attempts at racial reconciliation.

Rev. Thistlewhite,

While I find your concern for racial reconciliation and racial unity noble, your analysis of Rev. Pfleger's sermon illuminates your woeful ignorance of what such reconciliation requires: an empathetic understanding of context and experience. This is especially unfortunate as your bio reads that you are educated in liberationist theology. By reducing Pfleger's comments (specifically about Clinton) down to empty, racist rants, you've only successfully shown that you are unwilling to acknowledge the reality of that which dictates the social and political realities of black people(and which you yourself reap the benefits of): white privilege. To you, Rev. Thistlewhite, I say "get ready." If the conversation about race you and the UCC plan is anything worth having, the ugliness of white privilege must be seriously engaged.

But what I find most troubling about your commentary (and certainly the comments above)is that it illustrates the audacity of white people to determine how black people (and their white advocates) should respond to racism. It's evident by your commentary and the comments above that white privelege not only dictates how black people are treated, but also how they should respond to such treatment. Black people have endured centuries of oppression and injustice. Yet, the minute white people hear one un-diplomatic, in-your-face critique of this oppression, they have the nerve to cry, "foul."

If the commenters above are right about anything,it's that the folk at Trinity weren't offended by Pfleger's sermon. But they aren't uncritical, weak-minded followers. They know what Pfleger was preaching is the truth...a truth that many white people are unwilling to acknowledge in the vain attempts at racial reconciliation.

Rev. Thistlewhite,

While I find your concern for racial reconciliation and racial unity noble, your analysis of Rev. Pfleger's sermon illuminates your woeful ignorance of what such reconciliation requires: an empathetic understanding of context and experience. This is especially unfortunate as your bio reads that you are educated in liberationist theology. By reducing Pfleger's comments (specifically about Clinton) down to empty, racist rants, you've only successfully shown that you are unwilling to acknowledge the reality of that which dictates the social and political realities of black people(and which you yourself reap the benefits of): white privilege. To you, Rev. Thistlewhite, I say "get ready." If the conversation about race you and the UCC plan is anything worth having, the ugliness of white privilege must be seriously engaged.

But what I find most troubling about your commentary (and certainly the comments above)is that it illustrates the audacity of white people to determine how black people (and their white advocates) should respond to racism. It's evident by your commentary and the comments above that white privelege not only dictates how black people are treated, but also how they should respond to such treatment. Black people have endured centuries of oppression and injustice. Yet, the minute white people hear one un-diplomatic, in-your-face critique of this oppression, they have the nerve to cry, "foul."

If the commenters above are right about anything,it's that the folk at Trinity weren't offended by Pfleger's sermon. But they aren't uncritical, weak-minded followers. They know what Pfleger was preaching is the truth...a truth that many white people are unwilling to acknowledge in the vain attempts at racial reconciliation.

Why is Ms Thistlethwaite surprised by Pfleger's sermon? Rev Wright has been doing the same thing for the 20+ years Obama was a member, divide by race and religion. Did you notice how wildly the congregation cheered Pfleger? they must agree.

MIKEINPHILLY:

Thanks for good stuff!

OK, you caught me. I do wish everyone believed like me. But I realize they don't. I do believe everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. God gave us that opportunity. Who am I to try and take it away?

You are absolutely correct in stating that parts of the Bible are interpreted in different ways. Thanks for that! But the vast majority of it is black and white (no pun intended, ok?). I'm not asking everyone in the country to make a stand and believe the same thing. My point was to state that if you believe the Bible then you are responsible to adhere to that the best you can... that if you are who you say you are, act like it. We are instructed to serve our leaders no matter who they are. But we are to desire leaders who look more like the One we follow. That's all.

To those not believing in Christ, no sweat - do your thing. I love you anyway. Black, white, straight, gay, whatever. (It ain't the sinner that bothers me - it's the sin.) Believe me, brother, I am not for forcing anyone to believe anything.

Thanks for a great exchange!

McCain=Bush

Although a life long republican and supporter of John McCain I was offended by Michael Pfleger's racially charged speech aimed at Hillary Clinton. I refuse to call it a sermon because a sermon should have something of the Bible in it and his speech had nothing but politically motivated racial division. Unfortunately the entry of an African American into this race has brought out the worst from both sides; those who would vote against a person because of race and those who would vote for a person because of race. This is no reason for voting. We should be interested in the most qualified candidate without respect to race or gender. It is particularly ironic when we consider that Obama is not full African American but is actually half of European descent. How ridciculous is all this nonsenese about race. We need to get our heads on straight.

Why the photo of Obama with the headline, "Bully in the Pulpit," on Google's news page. Do you want to disparage Obama, or is this Google's doing and not your responsibility?

HAHAHHAHAHHA!

White, middle-class religious people are so darn wacky! Especially you preachy ones with all those world-shattering problems you face daily!

I'm honestly gonna miss you all when you get sucked up into the sky by the giant Jesus ship!

But, alas, we'll then be able to grab all that expensive tax-free real estate and those golden microphones you use to natter at each other with and sell them for sustenance food and basic medicine -- you know -- those annoying little *realities* the world outside your Ethan Allan-furnished foyers faces every day!

Have a safe trip & Good Luck!

Cheers!

Last time I checked freedom of speech still existed.

Elections always bring out emotion and this one is no diferent.

As a nation we have to get over being so hypersensistive.

"I did not find Pfleger’s sermon to represent what we in the UCC are trying to do in having a sacred conversation." Yet it was UCC which invited a known hater into the pulpit. It was the people of UCC that stood not to correct but to praise his words.

It may surprise Father Pfleger, Reverend Wright and others, that many whites (including middle-aged women) support Senator Obama, not because of white liberal guilt, but because we believe he is the best choice at this point in our history to inspire and lead our country to make the hard decisions we will surely be called upon to make. They seem determined to sabotage his winning the presidency, which would put the lie to their belief system of racial hatred and conflict. An Obama White House threatens the very foundation on which rests their reputation and following.

As Rev.Thistlethwaite states, the time has come for them to leave the stage.

I don't think the congregation was offended at all unless laughing and cheering is a new way of showing disdain for something. In fact, they did nothing more than encourage Father Pfleger to continue on his divisive rant. I think Pfleger and the congregation just drove myself and a very large number of voters into John McCain's hands. Hope the congregation is happy that they're costing Obama the election. Obama can say all he wants that he despises this sort of thing but he's been part of it for 20 years now: kind of hard to distance yourself from racial politics when you've been encouraging them for a couple of decades. There's a hidden agenda below the surface with Obama and I hope people can pull the blinders off before it's too late.

Thank you for your comments. I am a Clinton supporter and a woman of color. I must admonish you for not calling this reverend out for being a sexist/masogenist. His performance was less theologian and far more comedian. He doesn't belong in ANY pulpit, but rather on the club stage for open mic night. And please, do not overlook the laugh-track contributions of this congregation. What a sorry group of fake christians. And this was the church home of your "esteemed" senator....for 20 years?

Pflegar is a bigoted nobody looking for his few minutes of fame. I hope his hateful comments brings him the Shame he deserves. What a let down for the priesthood. Posted by Harry Lyerly

Thank you for your comments. I am a Clinton supporter and a woman of color. I must admonish you for not calling this reverend out for being a sexist/masogenist. His performance was less theologian and far more comedian. He doesn't belong in ANY pulpit, but rather on the club stage for open mic night. And please, do not overlook the laugh-track contributions of this congregation. What a sorry group of fake christians. And this was the church home of your "esteemed" senator....for 20 years?

Excellent article, Rev Thistlethwaite.

But my shame comes from the reaction of the people in the pews. Obviously, they were more in-tune with the poor example that Pfleger showed from the pulpit. I am embarassed for them.

Why are you preaching in a hate church? That's what puzzles me.

Rev. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite is p4reaching to the wrong congregation in this article. She needs to go back to the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.
"I preached the first service at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago last Sunday. Rev. Michael Pfleger preached later that day."

Apparently her message on1 Corinthians 12 did not impress this congregation. Maybe she should have preached from St Paul's 1 Corinthians 13 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

1 Corinthians 13
1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Her area of expertise is contextual theologies of liberation, specializing in issues of violence and violation.

Is it possible that Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite who calls herself by the self-serving title "Reverend" fails to see the irony in her writing?

She says that "The idea that you should inflame people’s hatred of one another as a way to mobilize voters has been dominant since 1972 and very powerful." Religion has been using this for far longer, and even more powerfully. Religion is all about creating divisions where none would normally exist.

Earlier in this article she states "a sacred conversation on race has to have Christ at the center." Why? To exclude other faiths? To exclude atheists? Why "sacred" rather than "rational"?

And why is the only way for us to "come together" is to first accept the beliefs of people who claim that they are communicating "the divinely inspired message from above"?

On the contrary, the only way we can hope to come together is to discard religious divisions, the differences they emphasize and the control they seek.

It is laughable to put "religion" and "unity" in the one sentence as she did in "The good news is that the politics and religion of division is the past and with a lot of work, the politics and religion of unity and cooperation can be our future."

Once again, religion claims unity while insisting on control over the minds of the unified.

I prefer freedom. And peace.

I am a White Jewish Lesbian Woman and so used to unflattering remarks from all sides that I am often surprised at how thin skinned everyone is acting about the recently published racist/sexist remarks. White people I am finding are especially appaulled by black centricity and their own racist feelings. Everyone is racist we are all finding, however what I am bothered by more, is the assumption that Hillary Clinton is some kind of "Classist" with no real understanding of the democracy we live in. It's ironic to me that most African Americans are not then open to admitting that a Black President will be critisized for every advantage he brings to his own people. That is not to say our country is going to be that overtly racist forever more, but in this economic crisis, anyone knows that is true. Why then also is Hillary's stregnth as a leader and politician not embraced by all sides?

Rev. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite is p4reaching to the wrong congregation in this article. She needs to go back to the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.
"I preached the first service at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago last Sunday. Rev. Michael Pfleger preached later that day."

Apparently her message on1 Corinthians 12 did not impress this congregation. Maybe she should have preached from St Paul's 1 Corinthians 13 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

1 Corinthians 13
1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Her area of expertise is contextual theologies of liberation, specializing in issues of violence and violation.

Rev. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite is p4reaching to the wrong congregation in this article. She needs to go back to the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.
"I preached the first service at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago last Sunday. Rev. Michael Pfleger preached later that day."

Apparently her message on1 Corinthians 12 did not impress this congregation. Maybe she should have preached from St Paul's 1 Corinthians 13 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

1 Corinthians 13
1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Her area of expertise is contextual theologies of liberation, specializing in issues of violence and violation.

Thank you, Rev. Thistlethwaite, for your excellent critique of Fr. Pfleger's unfortunate diatribe (I am loathe to call it a "sermon"). I was shocked beyond words when I saw a snippet of his antics on the news last night. I am outraged on a variety of levels: as a member of the UCC, as a previous Catholic, as a supporter of Sen. Obama (with friends like Pfleger and Wright, who needs enemies!?), as a feminist, as a person who decries any form of intolerance, racism, and the ever worsening demeaning and insulting nature of American politics, and as a person who respects Senator Clinton... need I say more? Shame on you, Fr. Pfleger -- you have lowered the bar even further.

Rev. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite is p4reaching to the wrong congregation in this article. She needs to go back to the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.
"I preached the first service at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago last Sunday. Rev. Michael Pfleger preached later that day."

Apparently her message on1 Corinthians 12 did not impress this congregation. Maybe she should have preached from St Paul's 1 Corinthians 13 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

1 Corinthians 13
1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Her area of expertise is contextual theologies of liberation, specializing in issues of violence and violation.

Rev. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite is p4reaching to the wrong congregation in this article. She needs to go back to the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.
"I preached the first service at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago last Sunday. Rev. Michael Pfleger preached later that day."

Apparently her message on1 Corinthians 12 did not impress this congregation. Maybe she should have preached from St Paul's 1 Corinthians 13 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

1 Corinthians 13
1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Her area of expertise is contextual theologies of liberation, specializing in issues of violence and violation.

Good article.

It is unfortunate that some ministers choose the "popularity" route over preaching true unity, deciding to ride the train of bitterness rather than seek a solution to it.

Thank you, Rev. Thistlethwaite, for your excellent critique of Fr. Pfleger's unfortunate diatribe (I am loathe to call it a "sermon"). I was shocked beyond words when I saw a snippet of his antics on the news last night. I am outraged on a variety of levels: as a member of the UCC, as a previous Catholic, as a supporter of Sen. Obama (with friends like Pfleger and Wright, who needs enemies!?), as a feminist, as a person who decries any form of intolerance, racism, and the ever worsening demeaning and insulting nature of American politics, and as a person who respects Senator Clinton... need I say more? Shame on you, Fr. Pfleger -- you have lowered the bar even further.

Rev. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite is p4reaching to the wrong congregation in this article. She needs to go back to the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.
"I preached the first service at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago last Sunday. Rev. Michael Pfleger preached later that day."

Apparently her message on1 Corinthians 12 did not impress this congregation. Maybe she should have preached from St Paul's 1 Corinthians 13 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

1 Corinthians 13
1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Her area of expertise is contextual theologies of liberation, specializing in issues of violence and violation.

What about Obama's butt-head Pastor?

When will it end? When will Christians join together in unity precisely as Jesus commanded? I cannot help but wonder how much of what we've seen and heard from those who are supposedly ministers of the gospel stems from their own insecurities and selfish desire to be famous. It certainly appears that the Church as it were is foiling almost every opportunity to be a formidable witness for Christ in this defining hour. Our nation is virtually filled with people who have no faith in the person of Jesus Christ, and yet, we seem to continually ruin our inroad to lead them by example. Christians have always been mocked- even during the times of Christ. It is no less true today that we attract mockery by being self-serving; trying to appease a populace with radical attempts at humor, hatred, and separatist views. It is my contention that those who hold themselves out to be ministers and preachers and pastors should be ever mindful of their actions- knowing that those actions and words are being heard and seen by both believers and non-believers alike. We must find a way to integrate the Christian perspective into the political landscape without jeapordizing the integrity of the gospel. These most recent discords by clergy will not destroy the faith or mission of the Church-at-large, but they have shed a negative light on our politics and on our purpose. The church leaders must learn to silence themselves; but this cannot be done unless and until they come to knowledge of why they perform in these unholy ways. The best starting place for them is an alter of repentance...after whch they can move forward towards solving problems and preaching the gospel- the intended purpose of their calling.

I thought the `Great Commission` was to spread the Gospel. Where does this so called `Black Liberation Theology` fall in with the `Great Commission`.

I think maybe this Church has run off on a wild self indulging tangent and can't find their way back to the Word.

I agree with most of what you said, but I'm not sure if "disrespectful of the members" of the church is accurate. They seemed to like it a lot. Says a lot about them.

Clint:

I am a Christian too, of the Catholic variety. I agree that one's religion and morals should motivate what they do. However, unless you want a country that is a theocracy (which is what I hear you saying), your beliefs and mine do not mean that we should be able, through the government, to require everyone to act according to our religious beliefs. Anyone who wants that should really find a country that is a theocracy (of which there are a good number). But in this country, the only principles that we ALL have in common are those set forth in the Constitution (not the Bible, which is highly subject to interpretation and spin whether you will admit it or not). If the Constitution doesn't control over people's religious beliefs, then I would want to move out because the coming of fascism or totalitarianism would only be a matter of time. Remember, no one can STOP you from having whatever religious beliefs you have. The tradeoff, thank God (and the founders), is that you cannot make them have any particular religious or non-religious beliefs.

Amen!

I'd prefer an agnostic or, preferably, an atheist President. There would be far less posturing and hysterionics, plus, the ethics and morality would truly be coming from his heart and mind, his reasoning abilities and deep-felt feelings, rather than some learned, rote, even forced, dogma.

I agree with most of what you said, but I'm not sure if "disrespectful of the members" of the church is accurate. They seemed to like it a lot. Says a lot about them.

Amen!

I just watched the You-tube link above and I am not sure what the denunciations are all about. Father Pfleger, though flamboyant, said two things about Hillary: first, that his theory was that Hillary felt entitled to win the presidential nomination, and second, that her race was part of that (along with her associations with Bill).

Is this theory fair to Hillary? Probably not. Is it true? Maybe. I don't find anything offensive with putting this forward as a theory. Would someone of color today be as likely to feel entitled to the presidency?

As a Republican on the opposite end of the political spectrum, I definitely disagreed with the tenor of Father Pfleger's message. However, I don't think simply labeling it "hateful", "divisive", and "offensive" is rising above Father Pfleger's rhetoric.

As a side note to those (not this author) who criticize Obama for the views of these men: I must say that I myself have friends that are racist and others who pride themselves with radical tolerance. Some long-time acquaintances are libertarian while others are socialist. Should I be held responsible for the views of my friends? Is this not America? Do we live in a free and diverse country with free associations... or not?

I'd prefer an agnostic or, preferably, an atheist President. There would be far less posturing and hysterionics, plus, the ethics and morality would truly be coming from his heart and mind, his reasoning abilities and deep-felt feelings, rather than some learned, rote, even forced, dogma.

A beautiful commentary. However, because it speaks to the point of race and unity, and doesn't "inflame," we will not see this commentary or hear at all about this minister on FOX news, CNN or any networks. Unfortunately, this will not be deamed as "newsworthy."

THISTLETHWAITE's says:

"Instead, Pfleger’s sermon was a bullying rant that was disrespectful of the members of Trinity United Church of Christ, disrespectful of Senator Hillary Clinton and really also disrespectful of Senator Obama and his consistent message of finding common ground. "

Unfortunately the members cheered the Father's "sermon". Their reaction spoke volumes. I wish it were otherwise. That would have really shown that they sincerely followed Obama's aspirations for this country.

Well spoken. Christ must be at the center of all we do and that alone brings about justice, fairness and the kind of righteous behavior that separates fleshly efforts at acceptance and reconciliation that ultimately offend an unchanging God. How vividly we have seen that there are many wolves in sheep's clothing who are leading the flock astray with disguised rhetoric that plays on fear, bitterness, hatred and "liberated thinking" theologies that bring separation of peoples and separation from God. How disgusting it is to see it paraded around under the banner of Christianity. I have been in places where the multi-racial make-up of the congregation only served to greatly enhance the worship of God in truth and spirit that was manifest for all to share in equally. I doubt this world will ever find that place as everyone is determined to establish their own truth. Their will be only one truth that stands. Those who seek it will find it. Those who don't will have what they have chosen to believe lined up next to it one day and a lie, no matter how hard believed, will never pass as the truth. I rejoice that I have found it and the peace that comes with it.

Church dogma is pretty silly in general -- that applies to most churches, in different ways. People ought to start wondering what sort of nonsense is being preached in their own churches, and wonder why they even go there. Or, maybe their church is so utopic and lukewarm it also has no reason to exist, except fill the offering plates and assure the preacher a job.

To: Those out there who assume I am out to keep the "black" man down, or that I otherwise judge you or your peers or family on anything to do with the amount of pigment in your skin, as you are doing to me.

I don't hate any one for their skin color.
There are many many people like me.
I am not out to get you.
Until you have wronged me I will never have any animosity towards you, and even then it will be short lived.
It is people like this preacher that perpetuate racism in America.
It is people who insist to be black you must be or act uneducated, that if you do well in the world you are just trying to be "white" that perpetuate racism in America.
It is the people that use skin color as an excuse for actions that perpetuate racism in America.

Stop looking at me as "white".
I am a Mommy.
I am a Wife.
I am a Friend.
I am a Woman.
I am strong.
I am weak.
I am the one who says "Hi" when you catch my eye on the street or in a grocery store.
I am the one that stops for you on the side of the road when you have a flat tire and offers help or a cell phone.
I am an Artist.
Sometimes I laugh.
Sometimes I cry.
Sometimes I don't make any sense at all.
My favorite color is blue.
I love mac and cheese and chocolate.
I am a bad speller, and I failed at Math at least once.
I am a Person.
I am just like you.

I don't care what you look like why do you care what I look like?
I am not the minority.
Just look around you.
You work with me.
Your kids go to school with mine.
We shop at the same stores.
We eat at the same restaraunts.
Because I am not loud and obnoxious does not mean I don't exist.
I am here.
Maybe you will see me if you stop looking for those out to get you and just live your life.

~S.r.Cibroski

This "conversation" leads us further away from the real point - Until we ALL put down the mindset of defense and FULLY embrace what has been our combined history (steeped in fear and stoked by hatred) our understanding of the true meaning of unity will be lost. When you point a finger at someone else you have four pointing back at yourself - Look inward to heal what is occurring in the world first. It took hundreds of years to get in the predicament that we're in (race-wise)and it won't be easy to divest ourselves of these ideas within one election - All that said,"The journey of a thousand leagues begins with the first step." Lao Tzu

Pfleger is an idiot.

Folks, here's the reality:

Obama, with his frequent gaffes that lead to WORM moments, along with his connections to individuals who make radical statements or hold radical views, has only engendered suspicion in many voters (and the likelihood is will continue to do so).

This suspicion once formed will prove difficult to overcome, if it can be overcome at all (unlikely, but not impossible). This only widens and deepens divisions in our society, instead of bringing people together, as Obama contends he can do so masterfully.

True, he has brought SOME people together. But who are these people he has allegedly united? Do they represent a valid cross-section of our country? Will those who do not see themselves represented in Obama's campaign be likely to see themselves represented in an Obama Presidency? Will those who have felt offended, insulted, denigrated by Obama's campaign (including his supporters who are his surrogates) put those feelings aside at some point?

The President of the United States must stand for ALL Americans, rich, poor, man, woman, black/white/yellow/brown/green/purple, religious of whatever persuasion, atheist, young, old, liberal, conservative, racist/sexist/ageist.

It does not matter whether Obama's statements were purely innocent (probably) and not reflective of any "evil" agenda to take down the US or turn it into a socialist utopia (an oxymoron, I know). Similarly, it does not matter whether he holds the same radical views (very unlikely) as some of the people he has surrounded himself with, regardless of the fallacy of guilt by association.

In politics, the public's perception is as important, if not more so, than cold hard facts (and sometimes facts inform perception) and no politician should ever underestimate the power of perception inside the voting booth.

The two racially inflammed sermons by Reverend Jeremiah Wright and Michael Pfleger would damage the candidacy of the likely Dems Presidential nominee Sen Obama. Bad news to the Democrats who's
trying hard right now to unite the party. This situation would give the Republicans an advantage,
considering they've a huge number of conservative
American voters. The Democratic Party's goal to have a Democratic US President next year may not happen. May the best Presidential candidate win.
Good luck!

Fr. Pfleger circus on that alter is no different than what the majority of Catholic priests do every day on the alter - put on a show while saying the mass. And is anyone really suprised that this Roman Catholic Celibate priest is threatened by a strong woman thus resorting to demeaning her - that is what they are best at - putting others down while pretending their Jesus.

Thanks Rev. Thistlethwaite for shining light onto the dark divisive message of Father Pfleger. His remarks weren't just "an old-school approach" dating from the previous generation of American political characters. No, that self-centered divisiveness was fathered a few millenia ago by the most sinister character we know.

I feel the Pastors are to keep thier thoughts to themselfs on politics. The way that Father Pflegers
spoke out was no wheres close to scriptures. I don't believe anyone will fine it to line up to the bible.
I believe it is time to stict to the change we want.

Why were the people in the congregation laughing so hard when Father Pfleger was making his vile statements?

Pfleger is an idiot.

Obama is not responsible for what other people say- including his wife. However, you have to be pretty naive to believe he attended a church for 20 years that preaches black liberation theology and didn't know it.

Thistlethwait's article is an attempt at whitewashing the nature of Trinity Church. Trinity Church has been teaching Black Liberation Theology for more than a generation. Black Liberation Theology is a vicious black racist,Marxist, white hating, Jew hating, USA hating, pro Arab Terrorist black supremacy movement which has no basis in Jesus Christ.
The Trinity Church congregants loved Pfleger's ranting. Look at their faces while he was speaking. It was what they were accustomed to from their not so Reverend Wright for over the past generation.
Black racism is a huge problem in the USA, which has been ignored. Thistlethwait's piece attempts to disguise the true situation at Trinity Church

I am white, have until now been a republican and watched father Pfleger on TV.... the snippet that the media chose to show us.

My husband, still a Republican, and I have said the same things about Hillary, she truly did think she had this in the bag.... that is why she campaigned the idiotic way she did, she did not think she needed to deal with the caucus states, etc...

Obama, not only outspoke her, he out classed her, he has NO mysterious deaths surrounding him as the Clintons DO....

He is much more liberal in his ideals than I will ever be, but like many once Republicans, I will vote for Obama before I will vote for a narcissitic dictatorship of the Clintons by putting that insane Hillary Clinton in the White House... she clearly cannot see reality and it is to the point of being very frighteningly so.

Her comment about an assasination was strictly eluding to her own hopes or could it be plans of an assasination of Obama? Much like the thirty some odd "suicide" deaths of their body guards, Vince Foster, the teens who saw the Mena drug drop, the list goes on and on. I am 56 and do not know of two suicide deaths in all the friends and family and neighbors I have ever known, how is it that the Clinton's have over thirty or more "suicide" deaths surrounding them?

I have decided to do my part to unite this country, something Hillary will never do, I am voting for Obama, I don't care who speaks at his church! I sure would hate to be held responsible for every word MY pastor ever spoke!

Obama has held excellent conversations on how to bring faith to the table in life and in public discourse. Despite this people have focused on the preaching of others in his church. Yet the underlying question is why would he go to a church that seems to admire (as video shows) this divisive language? The answer is simple: look in the mirror. The majority of religious institutions preach hate: Hate of Gays, Women’s Rights, Catholics, Jews, Harry Potter, Doctors, Politicians, etc. Look in the mirror. Any ideology that says the "true" path to god is found by only one path, one theology, one language, one book; one man who passed on long ago, is by its very nature- divisive. While I think Obama is noble in his attempt to bring religion into the public discourse we see that it fails miserably. "Power corrupts ultimately" and we can see that happens at the pulpit too often. You can preach all you want Rev. Brooks but in the end, so long as you do it wearing the auspicious cloak of ONE religion and ONE faith, you fail. God has no faith. God has no religion. The house of God is in the heart. You cannot win for all teams if you wear the jersey of only one. Free yourself.

Why in the hell do white people try to speak/act as if they are black?

Thistlethwait's article is an attempt at whitewashing the nature of Trinity Church. Trinity Church has been teaching Black Liberation Theology for more than a generation. Black Liberation Theology is a vicious black racist,Marxist, white hating, Jew hating, USA hating, pro Arab Terrorist black supremacy movement which has no basis in Jesus Christ.
The Trinity Church congregants loved Pfleger's ranting. Look at their faces while he was speaking. It was what they were accustomed to from their not so Reverend Wright for over the past generation.
Black racism is a huge problem in the USA, which has been ignored. Thistlethwait's piece attempts to disguise the true situation at Trinity Church

This is sickening. No one would say this about a man running running for president, but because Senator Clinton is a woman, she cries in a bratty way, because she wants to be president. This Rev. should be ashamed of his misogynist ignorance. Over and over people continue to point out faminine traits about Clinton as weaknesses. However, all of Obamas continued flip flopping, deception and lies go unaccounted for.

I am white, have until now been a republican and watched father Pfleger on TV.... the snippet that the media chose to show us.

My husband, still a Republican, and I have said the same things about Hillary, she truly did think she had this in the bag.... that is why she campaigned the idiotic way she did, she did not think she needed to deal with the caucus states, etc...

Obama, not only outspoke her, he out classed her, he has NO mysterious deaths surrounding him as the Clintons DO....

He is much more liberal in his ideals than I will ever be, but like many once Republicans, I will vote for Obama before I will vote for a narcissitic dictatorship of the Clintons by putting that insane Hillary Clinton in the White House... she clearly cannot see reality and it is to the point of being very frighteningly so.

Her comment about an assasination was strictly eluding to her own hopes or could it be plans of an assasination of Obama? Much like the thirty some odd "suicide" deaths of their body guards, Vince Foster, the teens who saw the Mena drug drop, the list goes on and on. I am 56 and do not know of two suicide deaths in all the friends and family and neighbors I have ever known, how is it that the Clinton's have over thirty or more "suicide" deaths surrounding them?

I have decided to do my part to unite this country, something Hillary will never do, I am voting for Obama, I don't care who speaks at his church! I sure would hate to be held responsible for every word MY pastor ever spoke!

Thistlethwait's article is an attempt at whitewashing the nature of Trinity Church. Trinity Church has been teaching Black Liberation Theology for more than a generation. Black Liberation Theology is a vicious black racist,Marxist, white hating, Jew hating, USA hating, pro Arab Terrorist black supremacy movement which has no basis in Jesus Christ.
The Trinity Church congregants loved Pfleger's ranting. Look at their faces while he was speaking. It was what they were accustomed to from their not so Reverend Wright for over the past generation.
Black racism is a huge problem in the USA, which has been ignored. Thistlethwait's piece attempts to disguise the true situation at Trinity Church

I am white, have until now been a republican and watched father Pfleger on TV.... the snippet that the media chose to show us.

My husband, still a Republican, and I have said the same things about Hillary, she truly did think she had this in the bag.... that is why she campaigned the idiotic way she did, she did not think she needed to deal with the caucus states, etc...

Obama, not only outspoke her, he out classed her, he has NO mysterious deaths surrounding him as the Clintons DO....

He is much more liberal in his ideals than I will ever be, but like many once Republicans, I will vote for Obama before I will vote for a narcissitic dictatorship of the Clintons by putting that insane Hillary Clinton in the White House... she clearly cannot see reality and it is to the point of being very frighteningly so.

Her comment about an assasination was strictly eluding to her own hopes or could it be plans of an assasination of Obama? Much like the thirty some odd "suicide" deaths of their body guards, Vince Foster, the teens who saw the Mena drug drop, the list goes on and on. I am 56 and do not know of two suicide deaths in all the friends and family and neighbors I have ever known, how is it that the Clinton's have over thirty or more "suicide" deaths surrounding them?

I have decided to do my part to unite this country, something Hillary will never do, I am voting for Obama, I don't care who speaks at his church! I sure would hate to be held responsible for every word MY pastor ever spoke!

Obama has held excellent conversations on how to bring faith to the table in life and in public discourse. Despite this people have focused on the preaching of others in his church. Yet the underlying question is why would he go to a church that seems to admire (as video shows) this divisive language? The answer is simple: look in the mirror. The majority of religious institutions preach hate: Hate of Gays, Women’s Rights, Catholics, Jews, Harry Potter, Doctors, Politicians, etc. Look in the mirror. Any ideology that says the "true" path to god is found by only one path, one theology, one language, one book; one man who passed on long ago, is by its very nature- divisive. While I think Obama is noble in his attempt to bring religion into the public discourse we see that it fails miserably. "Power corrupts ultimately" and we can see that happens at the pulpit too often. You can preach all you want Rev. Brooks but in the end, so long as you do it wearing the auspicious cloak of ONE religion and ONE faith, you fail. God has no faith. God has no religion. The house of God is in the heart. You cannot win for all teams if you wear the jersey of only one. Free yourself.

You crucify yourselves. Why???

I loved this article. I think Dr. Brooks is right that a sacred conversation on race and unity can not come from a point of hatred and division. But those are HER words, not Obama's.

on the other, I disagree with Dr. Pfelger words. But once again, those are HIS words, not Obama's.

I honestly can't understand where all the fuss comes from. Yeah, some Obama supporters say some crazy things. So do supporters of Hillary Clinton (e.g., Ferraro and Shaheen). So did Bush supporters, Reagan supporters, and everyone else that has a strong enough following to consider the highest office in the land. How can we justifiably make Obama responsible for every person that contributes, volunteers, or advocates on his behalf?

I hear the arguments that Obama is the worlds greatest liar. That his campaign is a conspiracy from the fiery gates. But can't we make the same arguments for any politician. If there is a KKK member that supports Bush, does mean he is conspiring against blacks. No. If Osama Bin Laden endorsed Petraeus for President, does that mean he is a traitor. No.

Let's move on America. Electing a particular candidate is not the goal; it's solving the problems that we all face.

Anonymous:

Why stick up for this guy? What good is his apology? If you truly support Obama, you don't do stupid things that anyone can anticipate will blow up in their face and HURT the candidate they purport to support. In light of what happened with Rev. Wright, how could anyone who claims to support Obama to something like this with their eyes wide open?

Most public apologies, like this one, are laughable. They're sorry they got caught or called on the carpet. That's all. Did he say, "I'm sorry IF I offended anyone?" I'm not sure, but that's typical.

Anyone else see the irony in one person of faith trying to make a logical argument against another person of faith? Compound that with the irony of her arguing against polarization and basically summing up her argument by lumping Pfleger into "old politics and religion" which is an 'us' versus 'them' argument if I ever saw one.

In fact, let's sum up this whole article... Michael is a racist, sexist, bullying, disrespectful, old guy who likes to start fights. Susan on the other hand, as a woman is incapable of sexism, bullying, racism, and has the church and the bible on her side. That’s much shorter, with the same point.

Church drama, lines being drawn about who's good with god and who isn't... same old game if you ask me.

I appreciate the use of Scripture in any opinion, as long as it's used consistently and true to its original context. The passage in I Corinthians mentioned here was promoting unity amongst the Body of Christ - that is, those that believe that Christ, the Son of God, is the only way to heaven. The passage was NOT promoting unity with non-believers. Am I calling Senators Obama and/or Clinton non-believers? Absolutely not. But whether one doesn't believe in Christ, or whether she believes in Christ, but doesn't live like it, Paul urged different degrees of separation from both. Actually the Bible is more lenient in attitude toward those that aren't Christians and act immorally than those that are "supposed" Christians and act immorally.

As a Christian, I love both aforementioned senators and wish them no ill, but cannot actively support them. Nor should any Christian. That's not my opinion, it's the Bible, and no Christian has the right to argue with the Bible. (Don't shoot the messenger!)

Nutshell: Be careful of who you defend and support. For the Christian, politics and religion are inseparable because our religion is a lifestyle of relationship to Christ.

For those that do not believe in Christ, I don't mean to offend you. I can't refute your beliefs; they aren't based on the Bible. We don't have the same standard of morals, so it's apples and oranges. For the Christian that supports most of the things these senators support, shame on you. We do have the same standard, and it never changes.

Oh, and as for "good people," being a good person doesn't get you to heaven. We can't be "good" enough. If we could, Christ would have never gone to the cross. Believing in (that is, dedicating your life to; trying to imitate) the only perfect person that's ever walked the earth is what gets you there.

Love to all.

Yes..you may have pointed out a foible in his message; however, not only did he apologize..much of what he said rang with truth...get over it!

How easy it is to condemn others. Anohter condemnable thing is the lassitude you see in so many churches --- white, black, green, or blue -- whose preachers and congregations all give the impression they are on Prozac. They aren't doing their job. Think before you condemn someone who is trying to do his job, even if it is not your own perspective, YOU, in fact may have something to learn. The entire truth is a blend of input from a lot of sources.

The sermonic rant was pretty bad but the response from the crowd was really shocking and disgusting. Mr. Obama and his wife will forever be linked to the shocking racist message of this “church” and its’ followers. The jumping, laughing, applause and screams of joy from the congregation in response to this racist diatribe were very sad and very telling and really show what this “church” is all about.

I am sick and tired of preachers getting involved in our politics and equally exhausted at the sight of our politicians outdoing each other by showing how much of a Christian he or she is.

It is sickening to see that in a nation such as ours which prides on the "separation of church and state", we have introduced "faith-based programs" out of our taxes and have Presidents and leaders of both parties trying to curry favor with religious leaders. And, when their idiotic "sermons" and their incendiary pronouncements sear their candidacies, the candidates whine or bark like dogs or they run with their tails tucked between their legs.

I am a US Army retiree. Until I retired, I could not open my mouth about politics when I was in uniform. And, that is the right culture for our military.

Likewise, if we are serious about the separation of church and state, we must strip these churches of their tax-exempt status as soon as one of their preachers get involved in politics by speaking for or against any candidate or when they instruct their congregations to vote one way or another on any issue. Anything short of that will only breed more and more asinine preachers who are unfit to wear their clerical collars.

While I certainly disagree with what went on at TUCC, I have to object to the comments that disgrace the UCC as a whole. I belong to a church that is affiliated with the UCC, but we focus on welcoming others and accepting diversity. Our church is a community that has never resorted to disrespect and hatred to solve a problem. We believe that as brothers and sisters in Christ all divisions are man-made and all should be brought together. This is the same message that I have heard at inter-church and conference gatherings. If one loaf of bread is moldy, does this mean that all the bread in the world is as well? Absolutely not.

I loved this article. I think Dr. Brooks is right that a sacred conversation on race and unity can not come from a point of hatred and division. But those are HER words, not Obama's.

on the other, I disagree with Dr. Pfelger words. But once again, those are HIS words, not Obama's.

I honestly can't understand where all the fuss comes from. Yeah, some Obama supporters say some crazy things. So do supporters of Hillary Clinton (e.g., Ferraro and Shaheen). So did Bush supporters, Reagan supporters, and everyone else that has a strong enough following to consider the highest office in the land. How can we justifiably make Obama responsible for every person that contributes, volunteers, or advocates on his behalf?

I hear the arguments that Obama is the worlds greatest liar. That his campaign is a conspiracy from the fiery gates. But can't we make the same arguments for any politician. If there is a KKK member that supports Bush, does mean he is conspiring against blacks. No. If Osama Bin Laden endorsed Petraeus for President, does that mean he is a traitor. No.

Let's move on America. Electing a particular candidate is not the goal; it's solving the problems that we all face.

"The good news is that the politics and religion of division is the past and with a lot of work, the politics and religion of unity and cooperation can be our future."

I believe your words are well meaning but naive.
After watching and listening to Father Pfleger and watching the congregants I have to say that your statement shows you know very little about politics and absolutely nothing about this kind of "religion!"
Were you present when Father Pfleger was on stage??
I am a Catholic. Where pray tell is the Archdiocese of Chicago in this?

UNBELEIVABLE!
This is the church that the future president of the United States went to for 20 years?
WOW…..
Is this a church, or is it something else?
I am not sure what people get out of this ranting and raving of these preachers, but I am certainly running away from Barak Omaba as fast as I can run.
UNBELEIVABLE!
There is no way, I will cast a vote to someone like that, someone that went to that church, a church that preaches that kind of crap, to lead me and my family for the next four years, are you kidding me? No way.
What kind of person sits there for 20 years listening to that kind of hate and mistrust of people?
I have been attending my church for 40 years now, I have never heard anything bad expressed about anyone or anything? Please help me understand what the XXXX this is?

Sorry to tell you this Rev. Thistlethwaite but the good Rev. Pfleger received standing ovations for his sermon. I think that if you are ever going to find your new political dialog you are going to have to first reach the hearts of those racist in the pews.

Very interesting, but I bet this commentary and sermon will get much less play in the media. Perhaps we are seeing the ugly side to the politisation of religion. While Pfleger's sermon was perhaps tactless, if church sermons become fodder for partisan political electioneering, then the churches, congregations and the unique environments of the pulpit will indeed suffer.

The congregation certainly enjoyed the sermon. Doesn't look like that congregation is interested in "becoming one" with anyone who is different from them. They seem to feed off this type of ranting. They are in my prayers.

I could not agree with your more. Cardinal George needs to muzzle this man. He is certainly not a representative of what I believe the Catholic Church and its teachings is all about. Shame on him!

It reminded me of what I have been taught that satan would do....He hissed and yelled and reminded me of a snake.

"The good news is that the politics and religion of division is the past and with a lot of work, the politics and religion of unity and cooperation can be our future."

I believe your words are well meaning but naive.
After watching and listening to Father Pfleger and watching the congregants I have to say that your statement shows you know very little about politics and absolutely nothing about this kind of "religion!"
Were you present when Father Pfleger was on stage??
I am a Catholic. Where pray tell is the Archdiocese of Chicago in this?

All I keep hearing is how the Clinton's are injecting race into this campaign...Get real people, Obama and his supporters are doing all the talking with racial overtones...and yet the congregation of his church, Trinity UCC, stand and cheer...We desperately need a floor fight at the Democratic convention that will produce a candidate who can win ...Can you just imagine the 927 attack ads if Mr. Obama gets this nomination...The Republicans will clean his clock !!!

The congregation certainly enjoyed the sermon. Doesn't look like that congregation is interested in "becoming one" with anyone who is different from them. They seem to feed off this type of ranting. They are in my prayers.

UNBELEIVABLE!
This is the church that the future president of the United States went to for 20 years?
WOW…..
Is this a church, or is it something else?
I am not sure what people get out of this ranting and raving of these preachers, but I am certainly running away from Barak Omaba as fast as I can run.
UNBELEIVABLE!
There is no way, I will cast a vote to someone like that, someone that went to that church, a church that preaches that kind of crap, to lead me and my family for the next four years, are you kidding me? No way.
What kind of person sits there for 20 years listening to that kind of hate and mistrust of people?
I have been attending my church for 40 years now, I have never heard anything bad expressed about anyone or anything? Please help me understand what the XXXX this is?

Amen!

I agree completely that we are potentially at the beginning of a better racial unity and I applaud you for repudiating Father Pfleger's stand. You need to go one step further and open up the decision making process within your Church that brought him to your pulpit at this time. If you're going to fully repudiate his position you also need to start with this review and replace the decision makers who support this archaic thinking. Show everyone by your actions that you really are trying to better race relations. This will be progress. DER

Also folks, take the time to look at the whole video. Not just cuts from it. His entire message is hate filled, historically inaccurate, and about as un-Christian as I have ever heard from a pastor of any type.
Race is a serious issue in this country. There are people on both sides who feel spurned, and victimized. There are still a significant amount of folks, once again on all sides, who think a persons race has a bearing on their ultimate value as human beings, their behavior, or their intelligence. There is a need to serious, constructive discussions on both sides.
The fact that many blacks feel as this preacher does are undeniable. Right or wrong, their feelings are real. You don't help them one bit by flaming the fires. This type of action from this preacher is akin to a Klan rally or a White supremacist rally. Watch some of the historical tapes from those horrendous events. The tone, the rhetoric, the desire to fan hatred and frustration, is the same.
This preacher may have done and continue to do great positive works in Chicago but he harms far more with this ranting and he does NOTHING, to forward society, and resolve the serious issues we as a nation need to address to put an end to the racism, on both sides, in this county.

The congregation certainly enjoyed the sermon. Doesn't look like that congregation is interested in "becoming one" with anyone who is different from them. They seem to feed off this type of ranting. They are in my prayers.

thank you for speaking out on this latest development. we need to hear much more from intelligent, sensitive, reasonable people like you.

A sacred discussion about anything that implicitly excludes those who do not worship Jesus Christ as their deity is by definition exclusionary. The many Americans of non-Christian faiths, as well as those thoughtful individuals who consider themselves agnostic, have been overtly excluded from public dialogue in recent times. This development is frightening because it suggests that non-Christians are unworthy of inclusion. Can't we recognize that our common humanity is the sacred thread that binds us together? Have we in America developed a new bias, ie "religionism"?

"The good news is that the politics and religion of division is the past and with a lot of work, the politics and religion of unity and cooperation can be our future."

I believe your words are well meaning but naive.
After watching and listening to Father Pfleger and watching the congregants I have to say that your statement shows you know very little about politics and absolutely nothing about this kind of "religion!"
Were you present when Father Pfleger was on stage??
I am a Catholic. Where pray tell is the Archdiocese of Chicago in this?

Sorry to tell you this Rev. Brooks but the good Rev. Pfleger received standing ovations for his sermon. I think that if you are ever going to find your new political dialog you are going to have to first reach the hearts of those racist in the pews.

I can not relate to this "conversation" and I don't think most of you who are making comments can either. We are all speaking from our experience and unless you can relate to the folks in the congregation who appluaded this sermon than you should allow yourself time to at least attempt to relate before forcing your morals and beliefs to fit the mold.

I submit that we all at least try to understand before we judge others. Sure, this guys rants were dramatic and extreme and yes, the people applauded this. But if any of us could understand why this happened we may find ourselves shocked at the state of social equality in this country and feel like fools for pointing a finger and saying "you are wrong"

You say, irresponsible and hurtful comments where others say, empowering. Should we also tell Islam that Muhammed is not real or a false prophet while committing to an equally unlikely, or likely, idea that Christ is the real deal?

I would surely like to know after all the hate speech from Rev. Wright and the new pastor and now from Pfleger which all three are clearly training their congregation on how to "VOTE"
why isnt the state taking away the tax exempt status of such a political biased, seperatist and racist place?
That's the 64 million dollar or should we say Rev. Wrights 10 Million dollar home paid for by this church question.

"The good news is that the politics and religion of division is the past and with a lot of work, the politics and religion of unity and cooperation can be our future."

I believe your words are well meaning but naive.
After watching and listening to Father Pfleger and watching the congregants I have to say that your statement shows you know very little about politics and absolutely nothing about this kind of "religion!"
Were you present when Father Pfleger was on stage??
I am a Catholic. Where pray tell is the Archdiocese of Chicago in this?

UNBELEIVABLE!
This is the church that the future president of the United States went to for 20 years?
WOW…..
Is this a church, or is it something else?
I am not sure what people get out of this ranting and raving of these preachers, but I am certainly running away from Barak Omaba as fast as I can run.
UNBELEIVABLE!
There is no way, I will cast a vote to someone like that, someone that went to that church, a church that preaches that kind of crap, to lead me and my family for the next four years, are you kidding me? No way.
What kind of person sits there for 20 years listening to that kind of hate and mistrust of people?
I have been attending my church for 40 years now, I have never heard anything bad expressed about anyone or anything? Please help me understand what the XXXX this is?

It seems to me that few people really want to have a "conversation." Does a conversation demand that everyone starts on the same page? If we all think the same and reason the same why do we need to converse?

www.youtube.com/drkeithburton

I think your speculations about Father Pfleger's beliefs aren't helping your larger point here. Did you read his apology, and still feel the need to impugn his character over a testy sermon? Yes, we still have a long way to go.

"The good news is that the politics and religion of division is the past and with a lot of work, the politics and religion of unity and cooperation can be our future."

I believe your words are well meaning but naive.
After watching and listening to Father Pfleger and watching the congregants I have to say that your statement shows you know very little about politics and absolutely nothing about this kind of "religion!"
Were you present when Father Pfleger was on stage??
I am a Catholic. Where pray tell is the Archdiocese of Chicago in this?

The author glossed over the continual statements about "white privelege" that Pfleger made. If she doesn't see that for the issue it is then this is a seriously messed up church. Here's a taste:

"I'm white! I'm entitled! There's a black man stealing my show!"

"She wasn't the only one crying, there was a whole lot of white people crying."

Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite is really right on target!

UNBELEIVABLE!
This is the church that the future president of the United States went to for 20 years?
WOW…..
Is this a church, or is it something else?
I am not sure what people get out of this ranting and raving of these preachers, but I am certainly running away from Barak Omaba as fast as I can run.
UNBELEIVABLE!
There is no way, I will cast a vote to someone like that, someone that went to that church, a church that preaches that kind of crap, to lead me and my family for the next four years, are you kidding me? No way.
What kind of person sits there for 20 years listening to that kind of hate and mistrust of people?
I have been attending my church for 40 years now, I have never heard anything bad expressed about anyone or anything? Please help me understand what the XXXX this is?

I can not relate to this "conversation" and I don't think most of you who are making comments can either. We are all speaking from our experience and unless you can relate to the folks in the congregation who appluaded this sermon than you should allow yourself time to at least attempt to relate before forcing your morals and beliefs to fit the mold.

I submit that we all at least try to understand before we judge others. Sure, this guys rants were dramatic and extreme and yes, the people applauded this. But if any of us could understand why this happened we may find ourselves shocked at the state of social equality in this country and feel like fools for pointing a finger and saying "you are wrong"

You say, irresponsible and hurtful comments where others say, empowering. Should we also tell Islam that Muhammed is not real or a false prophet while committing to an equally unlikely, or likely, idea that Christ is the real deal?

Don't waste too much verbiage on this priest. He's obviously some type of misguided/idiot/nut case. I say that as a Catholic who voted for Obama and will vote for Obama in the general election.

Earth to Ms Brooks, it's the job of a true minister of the gospel to offend people, especially those in high places and their enablers. The Apostle Paul did not preach reconciliation but repentence. Jesus himself went after corruption with a whip. Spare us the New Age pablum kumbaya softly-softly inclusive theology. Whole congregations are wasting away under that dogma. You're certainly not going to have many people of color in your supposedly "inclusive" congregation. They're looking for something a little more substantive than a Powerpoint presentation. Rev Pfleger has them jumping out of their seats and cheering. Methinks I detect a bit of eny on your part.

UNBELEIVABLE!
This is the church that the future president of the United States went to for 20 years?
WOW…..
Is this a church, or is it something else?
I am not sure what people get out of this ranting and raving of these preachers, but I am certainly running away from Barak Omaba as fast as I can run.
UNBELEIVABLE!
There is no way, I will cast a vote to someone like that, someone that went to that church, a church that preaches that kind of crap, to lead me and my family for the next four years, are you kidding me? No way.
What kind of person sits there for 20 years listening to that kind of hate and mistrust of people?
I have been attending my church for 40 years now, I have never heard anything bad expressed about anyone or anything? Please help me understand what the XXXX this is?

It seems to me that few people really want to have a "conversation." Does a conversation demand that everyone starts on the same page? If we all think the same and reason the same why do we need to converse?

www.youtube.com/drkeithburton

It seems to me that we are experiencing, right now, in the frenzy of the campaigns for the democratic presidential nominee, more demonstrations of polarizing politics than we have at any other time in recent history. Funny, the politics of change sure has changed things - the indignities of racism and sexism are now played out front and center on the daily stage of the campaigns. In fact nothing would surprise me from either of the democratic candidates. Change? Progress? Dialogue? No. What we are witnessing in this country is what happens when cold ambition parades as compassion and rhetoric disguises a vapid understanding of the real world. God help us.

What is all this talk of unity? As though that is a goal in and of itself. The idea that patisanship is something new in american politics is laughable. Jefferson and Adams went at it tooth and toenail over 200 years ago. If obama is elected all that goes away? How is that possible. Does the loser of the election then have to renounce partisanship and all of a sudden change there positions? Thats nonsense and anyone believing it is foolish.

I understand what you are saying here, but I do find it hard to believe that the members were disrespected because they were howling with laughter. It seems that this so called "church" doesn't even understand the Bible. This is very evident by their teachings. They are extremely liberal and disregard biblical teachings on a number of subjects. I think their true colors are just being brought out into the light. They need to read God's Holy Word and put it to use in their lives. If they did this, Barack Obama would be the best candidate for the Presidency because he would have had 25 years of hearing about the love of Christ and not the hate of white people.

It is nice to see the divisiveness of his remarks characterized for what they are and not explained away. Unfortunately, I was not only offended by his remarks but also by the whooping and hollering from the congregation egging him on. It's not just Father Pfleger that is a divisive racist but also many members of that church.

simple question. Why does Obama get blamed for the words of Father Pfleger when spoken from Trinity but he does not get credit for Rev. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite words spoken from the same pulpit???? Ohh of course because her words were positive.. the goal is the smear Obama... So everything bad is Obama's fault, everything Good is just an individual acting alone.. Ok I get it Now.

No one would qualify for the Presidency if held responsible for all supporters (particularly Preachers) absurd statements. Since when do we care about words of non political figures in an election?? Do you know everything your Pastor has said or will say...I don't?? If you stand next to someone at a soup kitchen are you responsible for their opinions?

I do not understand how these churchs deserve to maintain their tax free status. Such partisan hate filled rants from the pulpit are shocking to me. I am aghast at the enthusiastic clapping and cheering the church goers give to these expressions of ugliness. This is deeply disturbing.

Thank you for putting this unfortunate behavior in proper perspective. I only hope the impact on an honorable man's campaign is minimal.

This talk of a new form of politics is naive. There is no new form, there is only winning and losing and power. The idea of unity is attractive. But you have to understand that you very likely hold positions that others fundamentally oppose. Fundamentally. Moreover, the fact that we in the United States have aggregated so much power into so few hands in Washington DC makes the stakes very high. Your side intends to IMPOSE its views on others. Your views may be banning gay marriage, or seizing more of people's income to pay for programs that you think are "good" such as health care. You may want to repeal a ban on "assault" weapons, or impose a ban on handguns. Both sides impose on the other, and both are aggrieved by it. The middle is relatively passive, and the right and left are passionate about their beliefs and their disagreement with the other wing. We have a pluralistic society with a very wide spectrum of philosophical beliefs, and the gap between the camps large enough to have political influence is enough to maintain devisiveness. The middle will oscillate from side to side, but never to one side permanently, despite beliefs of a "permanent" Republican majority or a "permanent" leftward shift. So long as that is true, and it most likely always will be, there will be adversarial politics, there will be negative campaigning, and there will be division.

Larry

As a Catholic, I was disgusted by Father Pfleger's overblown theatrics at Trinity UCC. The whole notion of 'Catholic' - it seems to me - should be all-embracing and tolerant of the other's faults, transgressions, foibles and inconsistencies. Instead, we received a fractious rant by a tyrannical priest, whose sophomoric rhetoric was inexcusable and patronizing. A cheap, demeaning shot by an idiot-priest. Thankfully, in all their wisdom, the founding fathers (and mothers) got it right when they "sanctified" the separation of Church and State. Pfleger and Hagee lie together in the same bed. They are chauvinistic bullies, donkeys, puffed-up 'Christian' ASSES!

Bush hater:

America will be sorry electing another inexperienced president like Obama. Didn't we learn not to elect the person with just promises but no prior results? Bush promised to cross the aisles and unite the parties, too. The last eight years with an Bush were horrible, why would America want to go down that road again?
----------------------------------
It wasn't inexperience that did Bush in it was ignorance and stupidity. He really was not as bright as we thought he was to begin with!!!! He is the poster boy for mediocrity and became President.

These are words coming from persons who are pastors and ministers in the same church in the same town, about the same things, from persons of the same race, cheered on by persons of the same race, and Obama is friends, close friends, with these people. This is why so many people doubt Obama. Why so many people question his ability to lead and make good judgements and good decisions. How could a man run for president and not think this would become known and consider it a serious problem. Can the Democrats be this stupid?

Who is Jesus? Son of God came down tto earth to be a sacrificial lamb for the sinners. Even when Jesus was crucified, he prayed for the people who crucified him. He asked the followers to love their enemies and to show the other cheek, if someone slap them on one cheek. The deciples were asked tnot to take anything with them, when they go to villages to preach.
Now, look at the preachers now a days. All they care about is fame and money. Not all of them, but quite a few of them. It doesn't matter, they are white or black, all they care about is to how to make money, using gospel. Unfortunately, we have millions of blind followers, educated, but ignorent or uneducated. They will listen to these flase prohets, and follow them and give them money. It is high time that the tax emempt status revoked from these hate filled churches. These are not churches, but they are nothing other than clubs for the ignorent.
The preachers who are not following Jesus should be ex-communicated, but I know what you all think.
"We have to ex-communicte bishops, cardinals and lots of preachers"
A true christian is someone who follows Jesus. Some one who follows Jesus cannot hate anyone, even the enemy. A priest is a shepherd. Consider the message of the person claiming to be a prophet. A true prophet will use factual interpretations of Bible scripture. A false prophet usually tries to add things to the Bible.
Revelation 13:11-15
Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon.Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

2 Pet 2:1 [NIV] But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Pet 2:2 [NIV] Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
2 Pet 2:3 [NIV] In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

With all due respect Rev. Thistlethwaite, the congregation enjoyed the Catholic Priests rants.
Or, the Priest had his fans standing in the front rows of the church.

Your church loved his sermon, just what they had come to hear.

The problem with this whole issue is that there is no meaningful import to race or any other political designation. From a religious perspective, we are all "brothers and sisters" in God or in Christ (depending on your flavor of religion). We are all part of the same whole, and racial and political division is really an artificial, man made, issue.

People that choose to use politics and race (or religion for that matter) to stir up contention among people is really just creating greater evil and falsehood in the world.

I don't doubt that you are trying to raise the tone of the conversation, but the congregation was shown to respond enthusiastically to Pfleger's sermon. That argues against the idea that the church is ready for a more sophisticated, less hate filled conversation. There is much work to be done and it starts by educating the minds of the those in the pews.

Does one have to be a former member of the Nation of Islam in order to snag a preaching gig at that church?

How in the world can Obama remain a member of that racist bigotted ignorant congregation if he doesn't drink the same kool-aid as the rest of the crowd?

Who wants to make a bet that int he next few months a video emerges with Obama whooping and hollering in the crowd to one of those racist sermons?

If Obama gets elected, God will kill a kitten. True story!

Rev. Thistlethwaite makes a good case on the basis of faith and theology, but I would take exception to the notion the issue being one of approach.

I believe what we are seeing in the sermon of Pfleger and in many of the comments above is a lack of compassion and empathy - a "soulessness", if you will - a drive to make any rhetorical point one can imagine to advocate one's own preference without regard to anyone or anything beyond oneself.

I would cite as evidence of this self-centeredness the fact that there seems to be no appreciation of the damage they do to their own cause and preferred outcome with their own words. Perhaps in years past the public could be worn down and frustrated into staying away from participation. Perhaps in the past one could win by being ugly enough to keep a different majority away, but I doubt such tactics will keep down political participation this year.

The long term damage to religious communities may be more acute. How can you bring the community back in after establishing that its most vocal leaders are so closed-hearted?

It is particularly regrettable that the religious have abandoned their obligation to deliver Good News in favor of their own favorite rhetorical argument.

Pray tell me ...why then are these old school preachers delivering sermons from your pulpit and why are new age preachers not stopping them or moving on to a new church? we could see lot of parishoners enjoying and encouaraging such hate sermons. Why was Obama in that church week after week and why did he call all these pastors his spiritual advisers and even uncle!

Pray tell me ...why then are these old school preachers delivering sermons from your pulpit and why are new age preachers not stopping them or moving on to a new church? Why was Obama in that church week after week and why did he call all these pastors his spiritual advisers and even uncle!

As a member of the UCC and a graduate of the Pacific School of Religion, it is interesting to note that this author's repudiation of comments he disagrees with, along with his characterization of those words as "bullying." He then follows by embracing Clinton who has conducted one of the most bullying campaigns in history of the Democratic Party against Senator Obama. He further goes on to characterize the sermon as "disrespectful" even if the members where standing, jumping, and generally expressing themselves in a manner consistant with what I would characterize as forceful agreement. Moreover, this author takes refuge under the banner of "respect" while at the same time standing on top of his soap box and presenting a disrespectful point of view.

I would like to remind the good Rev. that respect is earned and never mandated from atop one's elitist pedistal while bringing down the seminal word on the passive body of the congregation.

Pray tell me ...why then are these old school preachers delivering sermons from your pulpit and why are new age preachers not stopping them or moving on to a new church? Why was Obama in that church week after week and why did he call all these pastors his spiritual advisers and even uncle!

I appreciate the message, but you give Obama too much credit, Susan. Given that you're a woman, your faith in his politics of finding common ground is especially tragic. Obama has shown himself to be male chauvinist of the most rank sort. His treatment of Michelle, revealed by Michelle herself, and his sexist attacks on Clinton, reveal a deep flaw in his character and his politics. It's not the strong character we need in the White House. He does not represent the politics of the party that has been strongly committed to feminism.

Obama thinks Americans are stupid. He wants us to believe that he has been with this church for 20 years - that's two decades - and never saw anything like this. He wants us to believe that this type of preaching only happens when he's not there, as if the preachers check with Obama first to see if he's coming. If he's not, then they let it rip. If he is, then the sermon is about salvation and other such uncontroversial things. Sound implausible? Of course it does. Which means that Obama knows what's going on and is telling you that he doesn't. That's called lying, Susan.

Here's something else for you to consider. Obama broke ties with Wright, denouncing him and trashing Wright's legacy. The response of the black church was to rally around Wright. Pfleger had Wright speak at his church right after Obama denounced him. Yet all those who defended Wright while Obama denounced him are still supporting Obama. How come? Their deep convictions about white entitlement and white supremacy - convictions that provoke them to grand expressions of righteous anger - does not extend to the black man who denies that racism is much of a problem? Why are the voices not condemning Obama right along with the white folks for the sake of whom Obama denounced the reverend? Do they believe that Obama is saying what he is saying not because he really doesn't reject it, but because Obama knows that he has to say he rejects it to get elected. This is what Jeremiah Wright said about Obama's motive. So if the black Chicago community believes that Obama is lying about his true beliefs to get elected, then what do Obama's supporters believe? What are those of us who don't support Obama supposed to believe? He's lying to somebody. Is it them? Or is it us?

Obama said at one of his rallies:

"We are the ones that we have been waiting for."

If he and his supporters are so righteous and intelligent, know the way, have the answers, can 'change' things....just where have they been for the last 8 years?

"Waiting on themselves". Every pun intended!

You say "Pfleger’s sermon was a bullying rant that was disrespectful of the members of Trinity United Church of Christ"

but were not those members clapping and cheering him on? Seems that it is the Trinity Church itself that needs to have a bit of humility and respect.

Pray tell me ...why then are these old school preachers delivering sermons from your pulpit and why are new age preachers not stopping them or moving on to a new church? Why was Obama in that church week after week and why did he call all these pastors his spiritual advisers and even uncle!

If Pfleger's talk is racisim, you article is about feminism ("As a woman"). Of course Billary makes use of both.

This priest should be excommunicated. Let him go to the Nation of Islam

If Pfleger's talk is racisim, you article is about feminism ("As a woman"). Of course Billary makes use of both.

If Pfleger talk is racisim, you article about feminism ("As a woman"). Of course Billary makes use of both.

Rev. Thistlethwaite... I have not frequented Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. I cannot judge what the consistent messages from the pulpit may or may not be. However, I can judge the responses from the congregations involved in the many disturbing video clips I have viewed. I now know what racism in 2008 looks like. People cheering racism of any kind should be ashamed.

Rev. Brooks,

You neglected to address the most "damning" aspect of the video clip...the standing ovation that Mr. Obama's fellow parishioners gave Rev. Pfleger.

Apparently the members of UCC are extremely receptive to such divisive, bigoted, and sexist remarks. It is not a stretch to conclude that Mr. Obama, a twenty year parishioner, would have been receptive too...if he weren't running for president.

UCC appears to be a significant part of the continuation, not part of the solution, of racial intolerance.

I think Father Pfleger was trying to get exactly what he did - attention. Same as Reverend Wright. He knew it was being recorded. If he really supported Obama he would have kept his mouth shut. These are not the words of a man of God.

We, as a people, as a country, have had conversation after converstation about racism, many of them "sacred". Those conversations, by themselves, accomplished nothing. It was the following BATTLE, empowered by such conversations, which have brought us this far.

The message contained in the second sermon of the day renewed and empowered those who must again return to the battle against racism upon leaving the church building. I suspect that it has been too long since you have left a church building to walk down a street with racism swirling around like a cold, chilly wind.

The faces of Bill and Hillary Clinton reflect the new face of racism, being comfortable with those who served in the House, not labored in the Field. They are, without a doubt, Good Masters. But, that is the point. Isn't it?

As much as Obama or UCC tries to paint it, those reverse-racist pastors are THEIR pastors. If they have not condoned them or words or actions, they would not be their pastors in the first place. I reject the argument (if you can call it that), that the pastors, whether you agree with them or not, is like family, and they stick by them, whether they're wrong or not. I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. If he's wrong, he's wrong. You can't argue it that, he's wrong, and Obama stays with him but disagrees. That's the kind of blind faith that the veil of silence covers everyone in the Bush administration, so that no one would speak the truth. And I do not want another idiot like Bush to get to the White House, and continue promoting that kind of attitude.

Thank you, Rev. Thistlethwaite, for a wonderful article that speaks directly to the seemingly never-ending "pastor-gate" instances we continue to view on the internet and television. I hope and pray we can somehow begin to focus on Christ's positive, uniting message rather than the divisive, hateful rhetoric we have been over-exposed to during this political campaign.

Unfortunately, what is even more baffling (and telling) is to observe the apparent joy with which your congregation cheered those comments. If they were, as you say, those of a "bully", and if the members of your church are honest about what you say, their reaction should've been very different. It was a sad spectacle indeed.

An interesting essay, but the way in which Thistlethwaite ignores the obvious issues of how Pfleger's reverse-racist and hyper-sexist-to-the-point-of-misognynistic polemic was greeted by that congregation last Sunday - goes completely to why a sacred conversation of the type she idealizes is doing no one any good at all. The news story linked below is a far more accurate illustration and discussion of the bigger issues pertaining to racism within the church:
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/race/2008/05/do-plegers-anti.html

Thank you, Rev. Thistlethwaite, for a wonderful article that speaks directly to the seemingly never-ending "pastor-gate" instances we continue to view on the internet and television. I hope and pray we can somehow begin to focus on Christ's positive, uniting message rather than the divisive, hateful rhetoric we have been over-exposed to during this political campaign.

As a devout Catholic, this must be one of those priests, that like to shine in the light but really makes it clear that he is way off base. Yes i do like Mr. Obama and how he carries himself but, these antics made by others should not be directed as Mr. Obamas words...

This is not only a slam on Obama and his ability to judge what he is willing to expose himself to and his family but it's also a slam on Catholicism. It has been established that the TUCC.org is a black militant style church but this is the first time I have read about the Catholic church joining the fracas. Stupidity is terminal.

The United Church of Christ is trying to have a sacred conversation on race?

Did you get as much applause as the Father Pfleger?

The people who were going wild with applause at his vulgar statements are as much a part of the racial problems in the country as the idiot speaking.

It was extremely hard to watch that video on YouTube. Everything I have worried about, feared, and hated about the state of church in America seemed fulfilled and smeared in our collective face.

Politics in the church! What on earth is happening with religion in America? How is it that buying into spirituality now carries the price tag of rejecting a country I feel is good, strong, and decent? And I don't mean just this guy.

Hate, division, derision, and pomposity. When I think of church that's the image I see. The religious people I know and the writings I see -- all are about hate. It's cult-like.

I know. This post is nothing new. No new message here. I just had to say it though... if anyone is listening: please stop hating America. Please stop hating the world. If there is a God I can't imagine this being the point. I don't know what the point is, but I see the Church isolating and rejecting and it looks to me like a recipe for a big Kool-Aide picnic.

Did you have the same congregation, Rev. Thistlethwaite? What I found so shocking about the TUCC congregation is their reaction to Rev. Wright and to Fr. Pfleger. You've been a Professor of Theology at the Seminary for about as long as Barack Obama has been a member of the TUCC. Do you find the TUCC a positive spiritual environment for a President of the United States? Whatever the "conversation on race" might be about at TUCC, there's nothing sacred about it. I suggest the UCC and the TUCC take off the last "C" as I've heard nothing that has anything to do with Christ. I will vote my conscience in November. Men behaving badly should not be rewarded.

Pfleger is a jerk. Hopefully cancer or some other terminal illness will end his life in the very near future so that he can start his stay in hell as soon as possible. In the video the congreation at UCC seemed to really enjoy Pfleger's sermon. All I saw in the video was a sea of black racist bigots spewing crap. I want no part of their God. Their God is a God of hate. I rarely if ever see other so called minorities preaching so much hate. Take your hate and your God and cast the demons from yourself and the demons from your church into the firey pits of hell.

Did you have the same congregation, Rev. Thistlethwaite? What I found so shocking about the TUCC congregation is their reaction to Rev. Wright and to Fr. Pfleger. You've been a Professor of Theology at the Seminary for about as long as Barack Obama has been a member of the TUCC. Do you find the TUCC a positive spiritual environment for a President of the United States? Whatever the "conversation on race" might be about at TUCC, there's nothing sacred about it. I suggest the UCC and the TUCC take off the last "C" as I've heard nothing that has anything to do with Christ.

Al Gibbs:
"Even more disturbing than the message that the phony priest delivered was the way the congregation cheered it and approved it. "

Right, and Obama was one of them for 20 years. Birds of a feather flock together. Always did.

I do agree with this article, and I will add that fox news and some others, pray on the emotion of the moldeable mind and the manipulable pride. I feel sorry for my part that we give so much attention to clown which do not help to heal America's emotional wound, while we should analyze more why do we react as manipulated puppet, to people that stir emotions that gives us just a temporary sens of being relevant. I react with spitted venom against this disgusting personage, therefore I feel I'm relevant among those who think they have been hurt or insulted. We all participate in this emotional echo system, where one can't exist without the other one. And surely they will not see it in the emotional zone. This is the theory of chaos. Our society is laying down the foundation, through the media, which can reach simultaneously millions of peoples, of emotions like anger of the mass, bitterness, hate, frustrations, in a such a subtle way that when an economical crisis will turn social classes and races against each others, we will have to harvest the year of media manipulation. May god, if he does manage anything down here, truly help Us, as not only America....

I do agree with this article, and I will add that fox news and some others, pray on the emotion of the moldeable mind and the manipulable pride. I feel sorry for my part that we give so much attention to clown which do not help to heal America's emotional wound, while we should analyze more why do we react as manipulated puppet, to people that stir emotions that gives us just a temporary sens of being relevant. I react with spitted venom against this disgusting personage, therefore I feel I'm relevant among those who think they have been hurt or insulted. We all participate in this emotional echo system, where one can't exist without the other one. And surely they will not see it in the emotional zone. This is the theory of chaos. Our society is laying down the foundation, through the media, which can reach simultaneously millions of peoples, of emotions like anger of the mass, bitterness, hate, frustrations, in a such a subtle way that when an economical crisis will turn social classes and races against each others, we will have to harvest the year of media manipulation. May god, if he does manage anything down here, truly help Us, as not only America....

I wonder if Pfleger's ancestors really enjoyed white privilege in this country or were Germans? And, what about all the white people whose daddies had nothing and whose grandpas had nothing? Am I the only white guy in America who does not live in an inherited mansion, after going to the college where my father had place and privilege, and sit around enjoying trust fund money? How did I miss out on that? And all those white people I see getting blown out of trailer parks when there is a tornado?

Somehow I am thinking I missed the white privilege train and had to work my ass off my whole life for everything I ever had. Dizzzam!

America will be sorry electing another inexperienced president like Obama. Didn't we learn not to elect the person with just promises but no prior results? Bush promised to cross the aisles and unite the parties, too. The last eight years with an Bush were horrible, why would America want to go down that road again?

Perhaps, Rev. Thistlethwaite, you should give Obama a lesson in how to express outrage. His disappointment over Pfleger's "sermon" lacks the passion of your own.

I am curious about the response of the congregation to your milder sermon. Was it as enthusiastically received and applauded by Trinity members as Pfleger's words of hate?

America will be sorry electing another inexperienced president like Obama. Didn't we learn not to elect the person with just promises but no prior results? Bush promised to cross the aisles and unite the parties, too. The last eight years with an Bush were horrible, why would America want to go down that road again?

Surely mocking a Presidential candidate cannot be offensive unless this has been discovered since Clinton's "clouds part" snark. Therefore, it seems that the issue should be only the appropriateness of such actions in a church setting. If you have an issue with that, write the Vatican about Father Flaeger. I'm sure they will add it to a very large file. What any of this has to do with Obama is beyond me. I suppose the next attack will be that the Father's dog's fleas are terrorists and secret Zorasterians. But the mammon-worshipping moral degenerates and their flacks in the privatised Propaganda Ministry will continue to attempt more of the politics of personal destruction. It's all they know and it's all they got.

If this was "disrespectful" of the members of the Trinity United Church of Christ why are the same members jumping up and down high fiving each other in the video of the sermon. Face the facts, this is not a church, it's a circus. And Obama doesn't bring anything new to the table - he's just old school. You will be judged by the company you keep.

I agree with the central points about the need to introduce the sacred into the conversation on race, and the importance of having this discussion in a respectful way.

But I think the essay ignores the important racial context in which this whole discussion is happening, especially the double standard applied to African-Americans. The reality is that Rev. Wright's comments received a lot more scrutiny and attention than the irresponsible, un-Christian and even hateful comments that white preachers, especially on the right, make on a daily basis (I am white by the way). African-Americans are bullied every day in this country, on the streets, in the workplace, in schools, in our churches and in the media.

Discussing this issue as if there is an even playing field in this country misses the main critique of African-Americans. This context of discrimination is the very reason that people like Rev. Wright (and Fr. Pfleger) are so angry.

Of course, lashing out with anger is not an effective way of holding a discussion. But criticizing that anger while ignoring its causes is equally ineffective.

Bravo for you. That was a good analysis. I pray that your sermons will sink into that church. It was quite evident, however by the revelry of the robed men behind the priest that they evidently love that type of rhetoric in this church. I hope and pray that voices like yours will help make a positive change and lead those folks closer to Christ. Rev. jerry Rockwell

Please avail yourself to the morning, afternoon and evening news programs. You would be a great counterpoint to the divisive rhetoric that we have seen repeatedly played on national television.

A white minister that was tired of the black venom- hatred Wright getting all of the attention. Now, he has obtained the minutes of fame,and will continue thanks to the media. Look at his video of the sermon. A great actor, just like Wright, and will do anything for attention. Stop the contributions to these preachers, and the sermons will stop. It is sad, that the entire audiance was screaming and clapping for this person. Seems, the Trinity Church needs a sermon in love and respect for the fellow man/woman. These media hungry preaches always time this just right for attention - example the Florida-Michigan controversary. Hopefully, Trinity will at some point get a good loving preacher that preaches the Bible, and out of politics.

Instead, Pfleger’s sermon was a bullying rant that was disrespectful of the members of Trinity United Church of Christ, disrespectful of Senator Hillary Clinton and really also disrespectful of Senator Obama and his consistent message of finding common ground.

-- Yet the people at the church don't appear offended. Instead, they're jumping up and down, cheering. Comment on that, please.

Obama only says he's disappointed with Pfleger's words, not that he rejects then or some other stronger objection. One is disappointed with a bad cup of coffee. But then.... racial support
accounts for much of where he is today, so what more can we expect?

Lord have Mercy on all the stupid men controlling the earth. Even the priests seem to be ruled by their private parts. Horrible male ego centrism will end up destroying the earth,.

Even more disturbing than the message that the phony priest delivered was the way the congregation cheered it and approved it. This church is a racist white hating church and Obama as one of its congregants is not atypical of the general congregation. We don't need this racist phony as a national leader!

Dr. Thistlethwaite,

Respectfully, I will first ask you, as others have asked the critics of Rev. Wright, did you hear Father Mike's entire sermon?

Second, the essence of Father Mike's comments are well known among many people of various races across the country. He touched on something that even you can't or won't acknowledge, and that is White priviledge. He get's it, why don't you? You want unity and common ground, but you clearly don't want some of the painful truths that come with it.

Why are we in the UCC having a sacred conversation on race and not on Racism, White Supremacy and White priviledge? Why not continue that with a discussion on the other -isms plaguing this country, i.e., classism/capitalism, sexism/homophobic patriarchy, able-ism, etc.? Why are some of us in the UCC more concerned about "multi-cultural congregations" and not police terrorism against youth of color, against LGBTQ people, gentrification/urban removal (of people), the death penalty which both H.Clinton and Obama support, etc.?

Lastly, my parents worked for White people, saved their money and helped put my siblings and I through college. My parents worked for racist White folks, smiled at their racist jokes, saved their money and took care of us. Do you even care what that is like? The weariness on the spirit? You think they smiled because they found the jokes amusing? I was greatly offended by Driving Miss Hillary's tears; she was sincere alright, sincerely arrogant and I agree with Father Mike BECAUSE HE TOLD THE TRUTH, PAINFUL THOUGH IT SEEMS TO BE FOR YOU. My mother and grandmothers taught us girls a great lesson about when a White woman cries; it usually means someone's about to be hung . . . from a tree!

Strange fruit indeed!

Sure there are black preachers who are demogogues in racial terms. They are to be condemned, but no more than society at large. Unfortunately, there is a lot of sense in what they say, even if it is not perhaps the best way to go about it. But how to go about it? In the flowery, utopic terms of wome white-woman preacher? Perhaps there is room on both sides -- maybe we need more condemnable preaching. Why not? Society needs some risk takers, and in the end the truth will out. It is a long process, and frankly I wouldn't go about conemning others too much when I have not "walked a mile in their mocassins."

The reason these stories have legs is nobody knows anything about Barak Obama. They don't stick to John McCain because he has a multiple-decade record of public service. When you don't know anything about somebody, whether he's dating your daughter or running for office, you ask, who are his friends, what kind of family does he come from, where does he go to church, etc.

Well, now we're getting to know the Democratic Party's nominee. He's South Chicago. I lived in Hyde Park for a few years, so I knew what South Chicago is: it's Louis Farrakhan, Bill Ayers, Jesse Jackson, Jeremiah Wright, and Michael Pfleger. The ranting, raving, hate-America, hate-white-people, gimme-a-trust-fund, I-don't-have-to-work-I'm-an-activist, "left."

You have to congratulate to the Democratic Party. It almost looked like they could actually WIN the White House this time. How hard did they have to look to find a candidate so toxic no mainstream American could consider voting for him? Good job, guys.

It's nice to see that Rev. Thistlethwaite has belatedly come to her senses. Maybe now she is ready to comment on the reverse racism that is so prevalent at Trinity UCC? Or did she miss Pastor Moss's welcome of Fr. Pleger? It is hard for me to avoid the impression that the only good white for Trinity is a self-hating white, preferably in blackface.

It's nice to see that Rev. Thistlethwaite has belatedly come to her senses. Maybe now she is ready to comment on the reverse racism that is so prevalent at Trinity UCC? Or did she miss Pastor Moss's welcome of Fr. Pleger? It is hard for me to avoid the impression that the only good white for Trinity is a self-hating white, preferably in blackface.

My father was a minister for 40 years and he had one rule during primary and election time - DON'T DISCUSS POLITICS FROM THE PULPIT!

His reasoning was you are bound to offend somebody no matter how careful you are to balance your comments. He also felt if church goers we're faithful in their studying of the Bible and prayed earnestly about who they should chose when they voted they would chose the right candidate.

I believe all these "pastors" that make these STUPID comments are just trying to get attention for themselves. Being a pastor should be reserved for those who have a more humble attitude and not for these self-serving individuals. A pastor should sheperd his sheep in a gentle way and not inflame issues.

"Obama and his consistent message of finding common ground"

Someone has not noticed yet - the emperor has no new cloths.

With Obamas "sweetie" putdown, his comment "typical white person" and with the company he keeps in church, what reason is there to believe that he is leaving Chicago style politics behind?

I'm telling you folks, he's serving the same Kool-Aid Bush served with the "compassionate conservative" theme.

It's nice to see that Rev. Thistlethwaite has belatedly come to her senses. Maybe now she is ready to comment on the reverse racism that is so prevalent at Trinity UCC? Or did she miss Pastor Moss's welcome of Fr. Pleger? It is hard for me to avoid the impression that the only good white for Trinity is a self-hating white, preferably in blackface.

I count myself a Christian. I have listened to as much of that "sermon" as I can stomach. There is not a word, not a syllable of that ridiculous rant that has any business being uttered in the house of God.
Where does that type of nonsense have a place in a sermon? How did THAT rant show the grace and love of God? How did that show the life that Jesus Christ lived, the sacrifice he made for us?
It was a floor show put on by a man dressed like a priest but not acting as one. I would hope this man spends some serious time reflecting and praying about his actions. I would hope he would take some serious, tangible steps to heal the damage he did to the mission of Jesus Christ.
It is high time Christians that we put an end to this type of garbage. That we hold these leaders accountable, and remind them of the serious charge given them as leaders in the church. It really makes me sick.

Well said. Thank you.

"Instead, Pfleger’s sermon was a bullying rant that was disrespectful of the members of Trinity United Church of Christ, disrespectful of Senator Hillary Clinton and really also disrespectful of Senator Obama and his consistent message of finding common ground."

More transparent BS from Thistlethwaite. How was Pfleger being disrespectful of Obama? Obama has been listening to similar rants by Rev. Wright for some twenty years! What Thistlewaite really means, and is too cowardly and dishonest to admit, is that Pfleger sinned by bringing this kind of a sermon in front of a national audience and thereby hurting Obama's chances for election.

"Obama and his consistent message of finding common ground"

Someone has not noticed yet - the emperor has no new cloths.

With Obamas "sweetie" putdown, his comment "typical white person" and with the company he keeps in church, what reason is there to believe that he is leaving Chicago style politics behind?

I'm telling you folks, he's serving the same Kool-Aid Bush served with the "compassionate conservatism" theme.

So what do I believe when, on the one hand there is the Rev Wright and now Rev.Pfleger preaching hate and intolerance and on the other hand there is this nice but White lady preaching the opposite. One thing I know because he told us so. Barack Husein Obama has been listening to the hate and intolerance part for twenty years and he still went to this church until somebody belled the cat! Now that scares me and it may just scare enough people to cost him the Presidency. In Europe they are beginning to have a government person attend Muslim services to weed out the hate mongers among the Imans. I sincerely hope we here in America do not have to resort to doing the same thing in our black churches.

One more indication that the "new left" is run by hateful people who will stop at nothing and run over anyone to get their candidates elected. There is a special place in Hell for "men of God" who use their power for evil. It's time to show the left the door.

You may all be surprised to hear this - Don't blame Father Pfleger. This is because Obama believes everything he said.

If you don't believe me. Read more about Obama in his own words:What he really thinks of white people

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/05/25/shocking-obama-in-his-own-words-what-he-really-thinks-of-white-people/

One more indication that the "new left" is run by hateful people who will stop at nothing and run over anyone to get their candidates elected. There is a special place in Hell for "men of God" who use their power for evil. It's time to show the left the door.

This seems pretty silly. You're a woman so you resent a man pointing out the obvious about Hillary Clinton. I'm sorry that the female candidate is getting beaten (hint: she ran a terrible campaign and allowed herself to be surrounded my dishonest sycophants) and isn't taking it very well, but maybe you should take that up with Hillary herself.

Hate and fear seem to be all government and religion are about any more. Not McCain. WRITE IN HILLARY.

I would hope after this and after Wright's comments about Hillary from December that the tax-exempt status of the church will be lifted for at least one year. Clearly the line is now so far in the distance that it can no longer be seen.

These are people pretending to have telepathic conversations with an imaginary friend who grants wishes.

Why would anyone care what they think?

Between radical Islam, the never-ending war between Jews and Arabs, the hate-mongering from the Pulpit which we started to see with the ascendancy of Evangelist-Republicanism (remember the "Jesus Freaks" and "Christian Businessmen" circa late '70s-early '80s?), and now this insane, offensive and bombastic rhetoric from Black Christianity and The Cathoilic Church, all I can say is that it's time people take a look around at all this Pious Pap mascarading as religiosity, and take stock of just where and from whom all this hatred is emanating. This is now a ludicrous situation.

I know there's a biblical passage somewhere that speaks to all of this hate-mongering in the Name of God. Since I'm not in the habit of quoting the Scriptures, I'll leave it up to The Purveyors of Faith to lead us to that particular gem. However, I am in the habit of reading the U.S. Constitution, and we all know what the Founding Fathers had to say about this.

Jesus Christ! Even the Soviets and Castro didn't spew hate like these people do. Good grief!

there's something seriously wrong with UCC and
Trinity if they keep having nutjobs like these preach. If I'm not mistaken, many congregants laughed and cheered Phlegers message. Very sad how UCC condones such intolerant and racist behavior.
Churchs should be an inclusive place where people reach out to each other, not trash others and cheer.
Very sad.

Absolutely agree with KC: stick to the spiritual health of people, and leave the name calling and political rants out.
There are too many men in positions of authority in the churches; we need a better balance and some more accountability. I'm embarrassed as a Catholic at the sexism of this particular priest, and sad that I hear about this the day after the newspapers reported that women priests in the Catholic Church will be excommunicated. What about this jerk? Why not get rid of him?
People should get up and walk out on these so-called sermons. I've done it myself.
Great article; thanks.

If religion would stay out of politics and concentrate on unity and cooperation of all beings, the division in both religion and politics would fall by the wayside.