"Oh, My God!"

I personally know one of the FEMA workers
FEMA was waiting at the state border the day after Katrina
FEMA has to wait until they are invited by the governor. It was a political game by the governor of Louisiana making FEMA wait 3 days at the border. That is not something the Media will report. The twin towers was not an act of God. It was an act of terrorists. Man has free will. The flood in New Orleans could have been prevented if the hundreds of millions of dollars that the federal government gave Louisiana would have been used to fix the levee's and replace the pumps that were almost a hundred years old. It was pure graft on the part of the Louisiana government

Good site! I'll stay reading! Keep improving!

Good site! I'll stay reading! Keep improving!

Having recently visited the people of an indigenous nation within our own borders, it is amazing to witness their continued willingness to plant seeds of peace and trust, rather than seeds of dispair inspite of continued abuses many Americans thought ended 100 years ago.

This reminds me of an old parable...One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about the battle that goes on inside people. He said, "My son, the battle is between two Wolves inside us all. One is Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego. The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith." The grandson thought about that for a moment then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf wins?" The grandfather simply replied, "The one you feed."

The irony of it all is that, as religious leaders of a predominantly Christian nation, until we stop absolving ourselves and our nation of past and ongoing abuses against indigenous people within our own borders, and heed the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:1-23) can we begin witnessing to the world the bountiful harvest of peace and hope from seeds sewn in trust.

The Reverend Ms. Thistlethwaite wrote:

"How many of us have cried “Oh, My God” in the last six years as we have seen horrific events unfold?"

I amended my cry slightly, to: "Oh, My God, You did it!"

Under British and American law, God must be held to have intentionally caused these terrible events.

In law, an actor is presumed to have intended the natural and probable consequences of his act.

By creating the universe and the earth with the particular characteristics and qualities He gave them, God intended these horrors to happen, since the horrors are the natural and inevitable consequence of the nature of His creation.

In response to God's doings, I have also amended Henry II's shout concerning Thomas Becket, Archbishop of Canterbury:

WHO WILL RID US OF THIS TURBULENT DIETY?

Dear Colin:

You can believe in any god you want. I said I just don't believe in religions.

“Kwok, Pui Lan, a Chinese theologian [said:]…‘God weeps with our pain’….”

So THAT’S where that line came from. Theologians have gotten a lot of mileage out of that one.

Susan – you correct people when they mistakenly, in your opinion, implicate God in bad things that happen. What about when they give god undue credit for the good things in life? Do you set people straight on that?

'Oh, Thumbelina, Zeus, Katzenjammer kids, or any naked pagan god statue nearby, I dont' even know where to *start* on *this* thread :(

http://faithfacts.gospelcom.net/quest_main.html

Jesus lovers,do not miss this

http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm

RB

Which god did you say its ok not to believe in?

Was that Apollo? Or Aphrodite?
Or maybe you were saying its ok not to believe in Poseidon?
Was that it? Or you could have meant Krishna
Maybe you meant the old white bearded god,
unless it was Allah? Was that it?
Then it could have been Thor?
I love these guessing games.Now let me think.
Neptune? Ares? OK I give up.
I just want to disbelieve in the god
you say its ok to disbelieve in.
Because Im certain that you have profound
knowledge of the subject.That is only too clear.

To Mark LDS:

Being Catholic does mean to believe the purpose of life is to suffer and die. I am just boiling it down to its essence for you. Life is given to us as a test; those who suffer in this life are given eternal life when they die. Those who prosper are doomed to eternal damnation. GOD is Great!!! We are small, no-good, insignificant nothings. We have no rights. We have no power. We are just supposed to worship the Almighty Lord GOD, believe what the Pope, Cardinals, Bishops and Priests tell us, accept everything on Faith, don't think, don't be an individual, don't be happy, etc. This is what Catholicism is. I was raised in it; I studied the Baltimore catechism; I know of what I speak.

That's why I'm no longer Catholic!

Did you read what Bishop Hannan of New Orleans said after Katrina? It was GOD's punishment for our sins!

To YOYO, WHAT?, and CLEVE,

I am not an atheist. I believe in GOD. I see his works everwhere around me in the natural world and the wonders of the Universe. He is not a personal GOD to me. He is the Creator. What I do not believe in is organized religion. "Its just people's games, you've got to avoid," Bob Dylan. Everywhere I see human beings (mostly of the male sex) using positions of power in their religion to run their games and foist some BS on the rest of humanity and to declare warfare on the unbelievers of their religion (whichever one it is).

Its okay to be atheist -- its your right if you don't want to believe in GOD. I, personally, find too much wonder in the natural world to not believe in a Creator.

Oh, Gods, I don't even know where to *start* on *this* thread. :)

YoYo

And which of the 10 commandments proposes the violence you speak of?

What 'man', in your estimation, could have ever compiled a set of guidelines that encompasses every aspect of life we should be aware and respecting of? None that I know.

Put the blame on all you speak of where it belongs...on mankind.

Our time of what we have inflicted on ourselves, by our own choices, is nearing its end.

Perhaps you atheists can huddle and come up with a cure to all the worlds ills. And yes...I hear it coming...some of you believe the ills are due to religion. I say bunk. If mankind accepted the 10 commandments..ALL of them...the world wouldnt be in the ill-shape it is in today.

TDay

The Teddybear god is the perfect metaphor for the christian god,
because he's all about comfort and cuddliness and cloying sentimentality.
Plus,like god,he's man made and lifeless.

What the Taliban and Imams drive into Pakistani childrens' heads
is incredible claptrap about the supernatural,
and about what an imaginary Allah
requires them to do in this life,so they can go
to an imaginary paradise-in-the-sky in the next life.
Blowing themselves up is sometimes required.
From the outside looking in,we know this is terrible nonsense.
We know the 9/11 suicide bombers are dead,don't we?
Christian dogma is gentler than it used to be.
It has a history of violence to rival Islam,and wrote the book on torture.
It cannot behave like that anymore because secularism
pushed it aside years ago.It can no longer burn non believers,
but has to put up with them,much to the churches chagrin.
We really don't know whether there are any gods,
so convincing children that they are real is teaching them to believe a lie.
A whole pack of lies,and it's definitely a form of child abuse.

And obviously...from the above comments..

Atheists are on the run even more. Hissyfits abound today on this blog. 'Tatamount to child abuse'..such moronic thought. 'Teddybear god'...such infantile rhetoric.

So, if the demise of the thought of any belief in God comes to an end, the atheist will have us all where they want us...smack dab in the middle of something like the God-less USSR or even China.

Thanks alot, atheists! But dont despair...you relax...you'll learn -- someday --.

"And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom(Christ) and of the bride(Christians) shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants(Dinky Dawkins, Dennett, et al) were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries(Charles Darwin) were all nations deceived.

And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth." - Revelation 18:23-24

Many of the books on atheism by Dawkins,Sam Harris,and Hitchins,and Jennifer Michael Hecht,and Dr Dennett,are high on the bestseller charts.
People are hungry for the truth,and are questioning the "truth" that religions push at us.
In the distant past there were very few atheists.
It simply wasn't allowed.
I wonder why?
Maybe religion feared any ideas that contradicted the churches interpretation of the world,because the sham might be revealed.The sham that held religion together.
The sham of god and heaven and other outrageous nonsense designed to have people submit to the church and the koolaid called religion.

Obviously,from many comments above,the religious are on the run...
scared that atheists will take their Teddybear God away,
and they'll be left all alone in a godless world.
I say relax.
We cannot take your god away from you.
Because your god is inside you,not outside.
He exists in your imagination and nowhere else.
So he's very safe in there,where you can protect him.
Only you can do the right thing and dump him.
The world of the future will need no gods.
The time to put away childish notions is now.

I would say most atheists are ex-christians.
Most of us start life believing in a god,because mom and dad and school and church tell us it's true.
Some of us finally reject this as being superstitious drivel,and are happy to rid ourselves of it.
Religion is drummed into childrens' heads when they are too young to resist it.
It is shameful and tantamount to child abuse.
I believe that people of the future will see it this way,and ban all childhood religious indoctrination
We are just not there yet.European countries will do it first;providing resurgent Islam doesn't
blow the world up first.

Atheism is the dumbest of all religions:

High Priest: Richard "Dinky" Dawkins
Religious Text: Origin of Species (1859)
Founder: Empedocles
Deities: Father Time, Random Chance
Requirements to be a believer: Blind Faith, Hatred of God, Willingness to Ignore Scientific Facts
Indoctrination: Brainwashing, extensive lies, language of speculation, get ‘em while they’re young
Benefits: Delusion that there is no judgment to come, feeling like you’re at the top of the evolutionary ladder, believing yourself to be smart and the entire world to be stupid
Detriments: Communist Russia, Communist China, purposeless life consumed by selfishness

It is not an assumption, but a fact, that we can create things. Believers in God simply choose to see the relevance that there can be and is something more intelligent than we that does the same thing, only on a higher level.

One can argue that, to limit our very being to happenstance, wouldnt that apply to us too, that is, the things we can create are just by a fluke?

As we all know, that is not the case.

Ms. Thistlethwaite wrote: "The calls for revenge and the rise in prejudice against Muslim Americans and Muslims around the world have provided a rich soil for germinating the violence of revenge. We attacked Iraq out of misplaced revenge and that war is tearing that country and this one apart."
My response to this statement is that I haven't seen ANY violence of REVENGE by the West against Muslims for being Muslims. In fact, all of us whose vision is not distorted by ideology have seen quite the opposite: the West, as a culture, has exhibited the least cultural backlash in history to any comparable historic event (e.g., Pearl Harbor, etc.)
The West did not attack Afghanistan or Iraq out of revenge. Instead, the well-advertised motives were removal of Al Quada bases from the former and removal of the threat of WMD and terrorist support from the latter. And, the self-discipline and restraint of Western armies in both conflicts - unparalleled in the history of warfare - is evident for all but those who refuse to see.
The West has dealt comparably well with the Muslim populations in its midst - again, as is plain for all but those who refuste to see it.
We in the Western cultures are not perfect, and do have our fears of the unknown and the stranger, but our societies are also the most tolerant, by far, in history. Such a cultural achievement should not be ignored or artificially discounted - to do so is intellectually dishonest and shows the portrayer to be ignorant of the truth at best and knowingly deceitful otherwise.
Ms. Thistlethwaite's comments on supposed racism and greed exhibited with respect to Hurricane Katrina are similarly off-point, but time and space do not permit me to respond to them here.

Ms. Thistlethwaite wrote: "The calls for revenge and the rise in prejudice against Muslim Americans and Muslims around the world have provided a rich soil for germinating the violence of revenge. We attacked Iraq out of misplaced revenge and that war is tearing that country and this one apart."
My response to this statement is that I haven't seen ANY violence of REVENGE by the West against Muslims for being Muslims. In fact, all of us whose vision is not distorted by ideology have seen quite the opposite: the West, as a culture, has exhibited the least cultural backlash in history to any comparable historic event (e.g., Pearl Harbor, etc.)
The West did not attack Afghanistan or Iraq out of revenge. Instead, the well-advertised motives were removal of Al Quada bases from the former and removal of the threat of WMD and terrorist support from the latter. And, the self-discipline and restraint of Western armies in both conflicts - unparalleled in the history of warfare - is evident for all but those who refuse to see.
The West has dealt comparably well with the Muslim populations in its midst - again, as is plain for all but those who refuste to see it.
We in the Western cultures are not perfect, and do have our fears of the unknown and the stranger, but our societies are also the most tolerant, by far, in history. Such a cultural achievement should not be ignored or artificially discounted - to do so is intellectually dishonest and shows the portrayer to be ignorant of the truth at best and knowingly deceitful otherwise.
Ms. Thistlethwaite's comments on supposed racism and greed exhibited with respect to Hurricane Katrina are similarly off-point, but time and space do not permit me to respond to them here.

Ms. Thistlethwaite wrote: "The calls for revenge and the rise in prejudice against Muslim Americans and Muslims around the world have provided a rich soil for germinating the violence of revenge. We attacked Iraq out of misplaced revenge and that war is tearing that country and this one apart."
My response to this statement is that I haven't seen ANY violence of REVENGE by the West against Muslims for being Muslims. In fact, all of us whose vision is not distorted by ideology have seen quite the opposite: the West, as a culture, has exhibited the least cultural backlash in history to any comparable historic event (e.g., Pearl Harbor, etc.)
The West did not attack Afghanistan or Iraq out of revenge. Instead, the well-advertised motives were removal of Al Quada bases from the former and removal of the threat of WMD and terrorist support from the latter. And, the self-discipline and restraint of Western armies in both conflicts - unparalleled in the history of warfare - is evident for all but those who refuse to see.
The West has dealt comparably well with the Muslim populations in its midst - again, as is plain for all but those who refuste to see it.
We in the Western cultures are not perfect, and do have our fears of the unknown and the stranger, but our societies are also the most tolerant, by far, in history. Such a cultural achievement should not be ignored or artificially discounted - to do so is intellectually dishonest and shows the portrayer to be ignorant of the truth at best and knowingly deceitful otherwise.
Ms. Thistlethwaite's comments on supposed racism and greed exhibited with respect to Hurricane Katrina are similarly off-point, but time and space do not permit me to respond to them here.

Ms. Thistlethwaite wrote: "The calls for revenge and the rise in prejudice against Muslim Americans and Muslims around the world have provided a rich soil for germinating the violence of revenge. We attacked Iraq out of misplaced revenge and that war is tearing that country and this one apart."
My response to this statement is that I haven't seen ANY violence of REVENGE by the West against Muslims for being Muslims. In fact, all of us whose vision is not distorted by ideology have seen quite the opposite: the West, as a culture, has exhibited the least cultural backlash in history to any comparable historic event (e.g., Pearl Harbor, etc.)
The West did not attack Afghanistan or Iraq out of revenge. Instead, the well-advertised motives were removal of Al Quada bases from the former and removal of the threat of WMD and terrorist support from the latter. And, the self-discipline and restraint of Western armies in both conflicts - unparalleled in the history of warfare - is evident for all but those who refuse to see.
The West has dealt comparably well with the Muslim populations in its midst - again, as is plain for all but those who refuste to see it.
We in the Western cultures are not perfect, and do have our fears of the unknown and the stranger, but our societies are also the most tolerant, by far, in history. Such a cultural achievement should not be ignored or artificially discounted - to do so is intellectually dishonest and shows the portrayer to be ignorant of the truth at best and knowingly deceitful otherwise.
Ms. Thistlethwaite's comments on supposed racism and greed exhibited with respect to Hurricane Katrina are similarly off-point, but time and space do not permit me to respond to them here.

Ms. Thistlethwaite wrote: "The calls for revenge and the rise in prejudice against Muslim Americans and Muslims around the world have provided a rich soil for germinating the violence of revenge. We attacked Iraq out of misplaced revenge and that war is tearing that country and this one apart."
My response to this statement is that I haven't seen ANY violence of REVENGE by the West against Muslims for being Muslims. In fact, all of us whose vision is not distorted by ideology have seen quite the opposite: the West, as a culture, has exhibited the least cultural backlash in history to any comparable historic event (e.g., Pearl Harbor, etc.)
The West did not attack Afghanistan or Iraq out of revenge. Instead, the well-advertised motives were removal of Al Quada bases from the former and removal of the threat of WMD and terrorist support from the latter. And, the self-discipline and restraint of Western armies in both conflicts - unparalleled in the history of warfare - is evident for all but those who refuse to see.
The West has dealt comparably well with the Muslim populations in its midst - again, as is plain for all but those who refuste to see it.
We in the Western cultures are not perfect, and do have our fears of the unknown and the stranger, but our societies are also the most tolerant, by far, in history. Such a cultural achievement should not be ignored or artificially discounted - to do so is intellectually dishonest and shows the portrayer to be ignorant of the truth at best and knowingly deceitful otherwise.
Ms. Thistlethwaite's comments on supposed racism and greed exhibited with respect to Hurricane Katrina are similarly off-point, but time and space do not permit me to respond to them here.

This lady is absurd. She leads a theological school, she could as well lead a sect in the woods. She assigns to G-d emotions, wishes and deeds that have no slightest evidence in reality. Simply preaching what she thinks the G-d is and we should believe and follow :-) Very convincing, very easy, very convenient, very illogical.

Good luck with the followers.

"It still doesn't mean there isn't a God."

Nor does it mean there is one.

I was raised going to church every sunday, indoctrinated early on in an institutionalized, methodical fashion of wash, rinse, repeat, wash rinse, repeat... Jesus loves me, for god so loved the world, the meek will inherit the earth. . . You are corrct 'What;' constant repitition and popular support by the community can infest a child with a belief system that is hard, very hard to undo as an adult. The rub is though, that in small town and rural America, and many urban and suburban communities the default is christianity, and it is practiced and prescribed from birth, constant repitition, catchy jingles (hymns), and a modichem of guilt and fear. Atheism has no such infrastructure, no priesthood, no meetings, no great comission to spread the word.
To believe there is a god, you must constantly remind yourself that there is a god. That is why you are encouraged to go to church so often. If you keep this up long enough you will actually believe that there is a god.
Atheism has no bible, no training or indoctrination, it doesn't need it. Nor do atheists wander about in fits of woe trying to figure out why terrible or wonderous things happen. We need no great book, no legions of priests, prophets and interpreters to explain how and why god does or does not do things... absent this indoctrination, absent a 'witness' a human adult will not see a god, if he even assumes there is one, as you do. It must be explained, taught, handed down. Atheism, the mere lack of belief in a all-powerful deity, needs no explanation or training at all..

To believe there is not a God you have to keep telling yourself there is not a God.
If you are told or keep telling yourself there is not a God,over and over,you will possibly believe there's not a God.
If your community doesnt reinforce this belief,you may possibly be certain there isn't a God; and you would happily die for yourself, since you beleive there is no God

It still doesn't mean there isn't a God.

It just means that cultural and secular groupthink tries to overwhelm,and be irresistible,
especially to people who may think their existence is a mistake, a fluke, no possible chance of a Creator/creation (yet they can create things in the human realm..but since they are the center of the universe..there is no way (to them) that anything around them could be created..including themselves)
The atheist ends up believing what every other atheist around them believes.
Whether it's true or not.

When I see evil in the world, it is pretty easy to think "God didn't cause this, people did." However, when I witness true natural disasters, such as tsunami,or droughts that lead to starvation, etc, it is much more difficult to understand. Why did God create a world with a phenomenom like a tornado, when He must have known it would cause suffering and death? Could He have created a world without mudslides, and earthquakes and volcanoes? I can't explain this. The only way I can understand these events is to listen to the people who survive them. So many claim that they felt God's presence, that they truely believe He was watching over them. Then I have to think, I don't know if God is in the flood, or the hurricane or the volcano, but I know He is in the still, small voice of the stranger who says "How can I help you."

To believe in a god you have to have been TOLD there is a god.
If you are told there is a god,over and over,you will believe there's a god.
If your community reinforces this belief,you will be certain there's a god;
and you would happily die for this god.
It still doesn't mean there is a god.
It just means that cultural and religious groupthink is overwhelming,and irresistible,
especially to children,who are the ones being indoctrinated into different religions
all over the world.
The kid ends up believing what everyone around them believes.
Whether it's true or not.

Rev. Thistlethwaite's article is a very moving and an accurate article on how America has responded to the unfortunate events that have been going on these past years. One thing I particularly agree with in Rev. Thistlethwaite's message on Divine Providence. Why would a god that gives us life, will bad things to happen on people? So many assume that because god created us, god can simply take things away. God may have the power to take it away, but by no means does that mean god actually will. As a human being that believes in free will, I find it illogical to conclude that the god who gave us life would take it away it will. I believe god is with us always. If one looks at the book of Job, God did not will these things on Job and god never left him. However, god did allow bad things to happen to Job. There is evil in the world, there is no disputing this, but what I do not understand is why people assume every time a bad event happens it was somehow god's doing? As Rev. Thistlethwaite has said evil breeds evil. It is not god causing these events of terror in our lives but humanity. Our world is a broken place that needs healing and that starts from within. Rather people reach to god, friends or fellow humanity is their choice, but there is a need for change. People do not want to give themselves to a cause anymore. As Martin Luther King once said, there are a lot of decent people who simply stand by and do nothing. God is in us, with us, and sustaining us. God is a life force that we could use to make the world better but for whatever reason we blame god instead. People turn to religious answers during these times of darkness because it is too painful to realize that part of the problem is ourselves. Rather we realize it, we are contributing to this broken world and it is up to us to try to fix it. I am not saying its possible and I know it will not be easy, but what matters is that we care. The truth is never easier and most of the time hard, but it is the only way to start. A real world needs real people. I am sorry if this response angers anyone out there but Rev. Thistlethwaite is right...it is not god's fault, it is up to us to plant the seeds that we wish to harvest.

My God, My God, Why Hast Thou Not Forsaken me?

Susan, your prayer from Psalm 22 is so very blasphemous I'm surpised you weren't stricken dead the moment you uttered it.

Where was God on 9/11, saving the lives of over 48,000 people, using the devastation that we bring to this world to turn it for good, that many are saved, as they are today. On a normal Tuesday morning the Twin Towers contained roughly 50,000 people, not even counting surrounding buildings and people on the street. That day 48,000 of them were running late. 96% of people that were supposed to be at work were not.

Abraham pleaded with God, if you find 50 righteous people, please do not destroy Sodom.
God agreed, if I find 50 righteous people, Sodom will be spared.
God lowered the number so that if He cuold find only 10 righteous people in Sodom, the city would be spared.

We know today from archaelogical evidence that Sodom was destroyed by a simultaneous meteor shower, earthquake, and volcano. Where was God on that day? He was raining shrapnel down on Sodom.

"God, if you find 10 righteous people in New Orleans and the Gulf Coast, please do not destroy it."

The question here is whether or not you think you are righteous.

Have you ever told a lie? God says that lying lips are an ABOMINATION, that all liars will have their place in the lake of fire.

Have you ever killed anyone? Jesus said that if you hate someone or call them an idiot, you are in danger of judgment as a murderer.

Have you kept the name of God holy? Calling out, "Oh My God!" in a callous and flippant way is called blasphemy and the Bible says that God will not hold him blameless that takes His name in vain.

The one that got me, Have you ever committed adultery? Jesus said, "Whosoever looks at a woman to lust after her has committed already with her in his heart." God is concerned with the intentions of the heart and not just when you act on them.

There was not a righteous man found in New Orleans, not on the Gulf Coast, not in the Twin Towers, so we should not be surprised at all that God did not divinely stop those catastrophes. We should rather wonder why we don't see more, why we have been thusfar successful in thwarting the major terrorist plots of the world, why natural disasters don't occur every where, every day.

I am comforted that not a single person died in these events that would not die someday. It is appointed once for a man to die, and then the judgment.

If you face God today, would He be justified in sentencing you to Hell? The Book of your Conscience has recorded every thought, word, and deed and it will be opened as you are prosecuted. What will you offer as defense?

God knew that there was no loophole or attorney you could find to save you, but because He loved you, not that you loved Him, He became manifest in the flesh as the man Jesus Christ, where He lived a perfect, sinless, blemish-free life and offered Himself up as the payment for your sins on the cross at Calvary. You broke the law and He paid your fine.

When you stand before the Judge of the Universe, you can be absolved of your transgressions because your fine has been paid. The only requirement is that you repent of your sins, turn from sin and thirst after righteousness. Once you have done this you will know that you are forgiven, you will be born-again into the family of God, an event as substantial as the first time you were born into the world.

As death and destruction come your way, you will not wonder why God allows it to happen, but rather why He has postponed the inevitable and most importantly, why He would see fit to save a wretch like you, that while many were dying you were given the option to repent or perish.

This discourse should be directed at the Muslim who base their life on fate. As the follower of Islam states, "If Allah wills it I will fly this plane into the North Tower." The Born Again believer KNOWS that God does NOT will His believers to do harm to any human being. Otherwise WHY would His Bible say, "Take not thy own revenge beloved but leave room for the wrath of God." If God wants to 'hurt' someone who can stop HIM?

>>I'd ask those who were fervently-praying for 'God' to smite that city as a den of sin for having a gay pride march... (Funny how their little spell came off in a way that struck everywhere *but* the French quarter.)

People that really care about others, that care about the strength and moral fiber of their societies and that care about the scourge of diseases, including AIDS, do not pray for a society to be ridden of homosexual people...rather that we be ridden of behaviors, perversions, etc that are even now causing a breakdown of our culture to a valueless free-for-all. No society that has done so has survived. Our presumed enlightenment will not prevent it from happening to us too. In civil situations, laws are needed to prevent anarchy. In personal lives, immutable laws concerning human behavior that were given for the benefit of mankind are needed for human survival.

I was raised catholic, and I wasn't taught that the purpose in life is to "suffer and die". I think you are stretching things a bit.

But then I didn't chose to be catholic then, and I am not now.

mark

Okay, I don't know what the last four reader comments here have to do with Rev. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite's article. But what I will say is that she, in my opinion, has given the most thoughtful and probably the most helpful (and probably most accurate) view on this question. Thanks!

According to the Catholic teachings I was raised with,

"The purpose of life is to suffer and die."

The victims of Katrina and other natural disasters can thank GOD that he provided them with such a golden opportunity to so richly experience the Catholic purpose of life.

Amen.

There is no God,and that's ok.

god is both good and evil and that's ok.

I think that the theological problem of disaster and the like are an artifact of how 'God' is viewed by people: too often the idea is sold that this God does and should control *everything,* which promises and insistences obviously don't pan out when terrible things happen.

In fact, this sort of idea of 'absolute good and evil' is what was behind the terrorists' actions in the first place: a trained denial of the human world and the suffering they were imposing on others.

Bush claimed about Katrina, 'Who could have known this would happen?'

The Discovery channel, that's who.

Years and years ago.

But the Christian Right treated such warnings as 'faithless environmentalism and socialist handouts.'

Where was God, some ask.

I don't think disaster is the occasion to be asking that question.

I would ask it of those who make and let it happen *before* they do it.

I'd ask those who were fervently-praying for 'God' to smite that city as a den of sin for having a gay pride march... (Funny how their little spell came off in a way that struck everywhere *but* the French quarter.)

Where was your God when you so self-assuredly and insistently created these circumstances in his name?

That's the question to ask.

I know where my Goddess was.

“God weeps with our pain,” I was sure this theme would re-surface. Last time I recall it was after the Va Tech shootings.

Is that all God can do, weep when something bad happens? Somehow he can create the universe and save our souls after we're dead (and condemn us to hell for eternity if we don't worship him), but while we're alive, he just weeps?

Seems pretty implausible.