"What's Next?"

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Tell you one thing about HHDL.

Always just glad when he's in town. :)

People out there trying to sell something tend to think that humans somehow forgot how to discern a sincere and genuine smile.

It's one thing you can't fake, try as you might, and I expect no less from someone 'sitting in a seat' like his.

I think part of the smile is, what we can see that's so good isn't something that comes from that. It's our birthright.

Some of us just got taught we need some kind of permission.

Blessed be. :)

PaganPlace,

I wrote: "Sometimes, when I'm in a sort of meditative state I think I catch a brief glimpse of "absolute truth".

I want to take that back - it's inaccurate - and replace it with this:

"Sometimes when I'm in certain mental states I can see that "relative truth" is not the whole story".

Regards.

PaganPlace,

A nice post.

"Often Buddhism seems to translate to Western minds as an idea that the world is bad or inferior, and one must 'seek the absolutes and highests, right now,' which wouldn't seem to be the idea of how to live life in most Buddhist countries."

If that's how Western minds think, they're clearly wrong. The Dalai Llama and other accomplished Buddhists have a great respect for the world as it seems ("relative truth"). If anyone asked, they'd say "Don't jump off that cliff", unless of course the prospective jumper was an adept like Carlos Castenada.

But they're also aware that "THINGS ARE NOT AS THEY SEEM AND ALSO NOT OTHERWISE".

Sometimes, when I'm in a sort of meditative state I think I catch a brief glimpse of "absolute truth".

Regards.

Well, Norrie, I would say that time and space 'exist' in terms of any way we could actually conceive them: but we must accept that we're living in our *perception* of such things.

You can have some 'absolute truth, (say a mathematical or scientific one)' but we *live* in 'relative truth,' (our place in and contribution to the collective perception.)

Some will say that 'Only Absolute Truth is Acceptable,' (and make an absolute where none exists if necessary,) but in some Buddhist terms, I'd say that *that* desire is for illusion, too, if it ever means, 'I'm not present because I think this is illusion.'

I think often Westerners who embrace Buddhism inherit the idea from other sources that in any life one must hit a sort of 'spiritual home run...'

...'Swing for the fences' so to speak. Which sort of priority sort of depends upon linear time in the first place, if one takes it there.

I think, actually, very many Pagans and most schools of Buddhists actually do our living in more or less the same sort of conceptual world, maybe with ideas of slightly-different priorities, but the same world, nonetheless.

Often Buddhism seems to translate to Western minds as an idea that the world is bad or inferior, and one must 'seek the absolutes and highests, right now,' which wouldn't seem to be the idea of how to live life in most Buddhist countries.

Mostly you don't see that in practice, though.

Like the Irish bardic 'Song of Amergin' says, "I have been in many shapes, before I attained a congenial form."

Or, "I know, it's only rock and roll, but I like it." :)

Dancing does the soul some good. :)

PaganPlace,

Thanks for your interesting post.

I've always been totally useless when it comes to understanding things like Xeno's paradoxes, let alone trying to unravel them.

I've read a thousand times that physicists and psychologists say that "time" and "space" are merely constructs of the human mind and have no real or objective existence, but they never explain why that is the case.

Precognitive experiences, of which I've had many, have convinced me that things are not as they seem and that the "future" exists long before we experience it as the "present."

So perhaps there are no "moments."

Reverting to our earlier discussion, I still maintain that if we are "fully present in [what we perceive as] the present moment, we are perfectly content and have no need of a "next."

My response to these speculations about time and space is the same as Dr. Johnson's to Bishop Berkeley, who held that we are only aware of our own brain states and what we perceive has no real or objective existence.

James Boswell, Dr. Johnson's biographer, wrote:

"After we came out of the church, we stood talking for some time of Bishop Berkeley’s ingenious sophistry to prove the non-existence of matter, and that every thing in the universe is merely ideal. I observed, that though we are satisfied his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it. I shall never forget the alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded from it, ‘I refute it thus’."

Actually I agree with Bishop Berkeley - all we know are our own brain states, but I live my life in agreement with Dr. Johnson.

Buddhists would say it's the difference between
"absolute truth" (Berkeley) and "relative truth" (Dr. Johnson).

So I'm prepared to accept that time and space are only mental constructs (but wish the physicists would explain why), though I'll still live my life as if there were real "present moments".

Well, Norrie, there's the recently-resolved Xeno's Paradox, (the one which says it's logically impossible to get anywhere because everything always has to traverse a further fraction of the distance at any given moment... if moments exist.)

Say there *are* no moments.

Then one can be present *and* making progress. :)

Paganplace, Norrie
You both have a point. We Christians in particular sometimes get so focused on the afterlife that we fail to contribute positively to what is here and now.

PaganPlace,

Only those who are bored are interested in a "next" or ask, "What's next?"

If you are fully present in the present moment, you don't want or need a "next".

PaganPlace,

Only those who are bored are interested in a "next" or ask, "What's next?"

If you are fully present in the present moment, you don't want or need a "next".

You know, Laura, I always get kind of confused when people talk like that about whether or not they think the 'end of the world' is a good thing or not.

There are of course a bunch of people actively trying to bring it about by breeding the right ritual cows and such... which sounds a lot more like horrid black magic to me than does being a tree-hugger. :)

Still might be a psychological dynamic to observe, though, with the popularity of this 'Left behind' series' and training videos for how the righteous ought to kill people like me with assault weapons to some holy purpose or other... (Weren't they have all supposed to disappear and turn any vehicle they may have been operating into a deadly unguided weapon? You'd think a nice God would say, 'Hey, mind shutting off your chemical plant before I beam you out of there? There's some meek folks out there that kinda choke on chlorine... thanks, spud.')

Frankly, you'd also think people so insistent on a 'religion of love' that believed that was going to happen any minute might like... take the train, instead of gloating about 'Ha, I can't take it with me, but my truck might kill you, sucker!'

Anyway.

Viejita del oeste:

"Paganplace
Your source may not be scripture, but it is possible that you share the same love for the earth, and the desire to mend and amend our treatment of her. How bout that those who know scripture might still have legitimate consideration..."

That's assuredly my desire, man.

Sure, you get consideration. I believe your guy told you you'd be known by your fruits, is all, and sometimes the orchard looks pretty problematic. :)

I think the whole 'being good neighbors' part may just have more to do with the *real* world, rather than saying, 'Spending all my effort trying to pound people into my beliefs *is* loving my neighbor.'

Frankly, I don't happen to think there's any *good* ideas in there that you can't find elsewhere, but there's a lot of *bad* ones that just seem to keep cropping up, so, let's just go with actions. :)

I found this amusing since only two days earlier I posted to my website a quote about how Isaiah 58 consists of specific instructions to the “little flock” of believing Jews who will endure through the upcoming Tribulation and reign of the Antichrist, etc., etc.!

Rather than us today lending a helping hand to a God who’s trying to “heal the world,” we are being urged by Him in His Bible to save ourselves from the coming train wreck He’s purposely designed to decimate the earth and its inhabitants!

As an Atheist and a Literary Critic

i heartily agree with MR G:

Ecclesiastes is a profound and beautifully written book, one that transcends any parochial dogma and teems with human wisdom.

I recommend reading Ecclesiastes if you want to understand what it means to be satisfied and yet look ahead at what's next. The writer tries everything that is supposed to bring satisfaction and comes to the conclusions that all things are "vanity" or "meaningless". He concludes that the only way to live life is to live it with a sense of gratitude, as a gift rather than an entitlement.

I do like your suggestion that some responding to your blogs should "step back once in a while & contemplate pressing 'delete' rather than 'send'." You could save your readers from having to make that decision if you were to do the same yourself: half of your blogs shame rather than support Christianity, the religion you profess.
As for this blog of yours, I do like the down-to-earth, personal touch & its "tikkun" (restoration, renewal) message--by why no Christian witness?

Many people don't read or like scripture and the pagans love their children too. I'm ok with that.

I'm wide awake, I'm not sleeping...

Paganplace, etal,

I don't believe in scripture either. However, I have a deep love for all things in nature and my fellow humans (albeit flies, mosquitoes and snakes are my bane). I don't think that scripture, Christian or otherwise, is a prerequisite for morality, ethics, and love. I truly believe that those qualities are intrinsically human.

Paganplace
Your source may not be scripture, but it is possible that you share the same love for the earth, and the desire to mend and amend our treatment of her. How bout that those who know scripture might still have legitimate consideration....

Sure. Imagine if you will... lots of people that don't think much of your particular Scripture have or have had children we love very much, too.

How bout.

I like the way that small but special things in life, like your son's birthday or sitting next to a child, help you answer the questions asked. You take that experience and see the connection both to scripture and the larger questions of life. A lesson for us all that the paths that we travel have been traversed previously and being aware of our blessed surroundings can help us to relate to one another and the past.

Very cool, Reverend. :)

Especially after all the discussion of such a divisive figure as was last week's topic, a little looking-forward isn't a bad thing to hear at all.

I think a big part of healing the 'breaches' in our society is going to have a whole lot to do with religious (and non religious) people spending more effort on the work to be done than on the things which are controversial: not only does the element of self-righteous intolerance in America constitute real injustice, but all the grasping for control also *diverts attention* from *other* real harm being done, that we could all have been getting together on and helping to fix.

Too often, 'Christian Charity,' for instance, seems to be performed or, really, portrayed as, a *means to an end,* and not something being done for its own sake. Even, the 'Christians are charitable and you're not,' line is so often used to justify *further* intolerance, even if at times it means it can be hard for Pagans to find a food bank that won't turn down donations from our holiday and festival food drives. Just to prove it or something.

Too often, on the other hand, tending the Earth responsibly is seen as a Pagan, even 'Anti-God' idea, for various reasons, mostly to do with the fact that religious authoritarian candidates are almost invariably pro-corporate and anti-environmentalist, and that's very convenient for them. Sometimes it even seems to be based on the idea that improving things for our childrens' future is tantamount to denying that Jesus is going to come back Real Soon, Now, This Time For Real...

So, what's next?

Well, I think plenty of Christians are getting a little sick of the constant denials of reality, maybe realizing that such a "breach" is not only unnecessary, but harmful to our society, and our world, and even, if not especially, your religion.

I think when too many are 'called to help,' certain others seem to appropriate their efforts toward perceptions and practices that further divide people: turning, for instance, the poor into mere theological constructs ...and potential converts, instead of real and living people.

I spoke to, well, listened to, a mentally-handicapped fellow who approached me to try and 'evangelize' as best he could, ...on a beautiful spring day, but he could only relate it to those proselytizing efforts, rather than, I think, really experiencing the day. I just smiled and let him repeat the same few sentences over and over, while he tried to find a real way to relate the day and the Earth to 'you should worship Jesus..'

Where's his 'What's Next?' Probably playing the same little tape over and over again.

Would he have been able to deal if I told him how I believed about and experienced the world we were standing in? Probably not. I kept quiet. Said a couple of cryptic things and waited till he ran out of steam.

He needs a 'What's next' too. We all do. Not a world constantly on the verge of ending, but a real tomorrow. I think that starts with having a *real today.* I'm thinking this fellow, he might just have been having one, but had no real language to understand or express it.

I think many of the *breaches* result from certain *narratives* that people embrace, hoping that believing the right thing will fix problems, and that what someone else does is really the thing in the way of seeing social justice and peace.

Where I am, is trying to recover from a great deal of the physical damage of poverty and poor health care, some of which is a direct result of intolerance and bigotry, as well as the constant right-wing *resistance* to the idea that the wealthiest nation in the world is capable of caring for all its people.

Maybe they need the poor to exist in order for their 'charity' to *justify the rest of their beliefs.* Cause, well, if there really *were* no poor to turn up and dangle a few morsels in front of to get a captive audience,

Well, what would be next, *then?*

And, OK, that's a cynical but all-too-often observed view. My own beliefs simply say that it's...good to share, it's good to reduce suffering, and, if that's not enough, the poor people you meet might be the Gods or ancestors in disguise.

Even Christians. :)

The way I see it, I'm not the real 'impediment' to what a lot of Christians would want, that I'm made out to be. Nor is it a lack of piety, a lack of control over others, a lack of political power, or especially not a lack of people following certain tribal tabooes that should really be where the focus is.

Heck, I hold to the idea of reincarnation, and a quick check of the numbers says that odds are pretty good I'll be born to your tribes again. I'm perfectly keen to try and help out with healing these breaches, too. This concept also means I probably helped make the mess in the first place. :)

We're all in this together.