Jesus Known to Muslims As Prophet

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Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able?

Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?

Then he is malevolent.

Is he both willing and able?

Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither willing nor able?

Then why call him god?

THERE IS NO GOD!!

Feel free to post on my site about how you feel on this subject.

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Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able?

Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?

Then he is malevolent.

Is he both willing and able?

Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither willing nor able?

Then why call him god?

THERE IS NO GOD!!

Feel free to post on my site about how you feel on this subject.

http://bronsonville.myminicity.com/

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To add to Professor Nayang’s insightful remarks on Jesus Christ, it is a known fact that to every Muslim that the Qu’ran, the Holy book of Muslims, states that the person whom Christians cite as the crucified Jesus, was in fact one of the faithful and closest disciples of Jesus whose image resemblance was put on him. This has been reported by Ibni Kathir, one of the famous scholars of Quranic interpretation in Muslim world. So, while Muslim didn't deny the crucification as an event that has taken place, what they don't accept is that the person crucified was Jesus Christ, the Messenger of Allah. It is his disciple, on whom the image of Jesus was put miraculously by Allah. Jesus Christ, according to Muslims was raised to heaven at the time the Roman soldiers attacked the safe-heaven Jesus Christ and his disciples were congregating. This story of image wielded disciple justified the belief that the crucified person was not Jesus Christ himself. Christians in many parts of the world think Jesus Christ himself was crucified then rose from the ashes. According to Qu'ran, Jesus Christ has declared to his disciples the emergence of prophet (Ahmed i.e. Mohammad) who would have to come after him as messenger. Older Christians in Arabia such as Waraqa ibni Nawfal in Mecca identified Prophet Muhammad from the Old Testament which he was well versed on. Waraqa was an Arab Christian scholar based in Mecca at the time of the Prophet emergence and he is cousin to Sayyida Khadija, Mother of Believers and the first wife of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Muslims also believe that at the end of time Jesus Christ will descend from heaven, making a second come back, to lead the believers to a new kingdom of Allah to be governed by him in the name of the Sealing Message (Islam). Muslims are urged to follow Jesus Christ against the Anti-Christ (the Dajal) then

First of all, i'll have to ask you all to forgive me for my bad english, and now going to the point:

1st. People just argue too much about what is and what's not, i'm young and I remember that I started reading the bible among some other books by the time i've learned how to read, I've been introduced to Catholicism, i've been adventist (i'm not sure if this is the right word), a JEOVAH's witness, I innocently came to a conclusion, GOD is ONE no matter what religion or name He has.

2nd. Three of the biggest religions in the world ( to my knowledge that is) can be traced back to Abraham, Judaism, Islamism and later Cristianity.
NOT Catholic which is nothing more than a corruption of what so many prophets have warned us against.

And finnaly ( and please note that i do not mean to offend anyone) please read the bible among some other interesting things about history and make and YOUR OWN interpretation. Try researching for the history of the Roman Catholic Church.

please remember i'm no scholar i only interpret from what i've read and came to aknowledge in my short life.

Jesus is the word of God. He has taught about the kingdom of God. Any person who is a member only can teach about the kingdom of God. Because he was obediant to death he was raised from death by the power of God. That itself makes him 'son of God'.If you follow the rules of salvation you also can enter the kingdom of God. Jesus gave those rules in the Bible. YOu wait for a saviour but you are debating that there is no such saviour.

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we muslims see jesus as a prophet ,This is very clear in quran

(Chapter3:verse59)
Verily, the likeness of Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.

(Chapter4:verse163)
Verily, We have inspired you (O Muhammad SAW) as We inspired Nooh (Noah) and the Prophets after him; We (also) inspired Ibrahim (Abraham), Ismail (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Yaqoob (Jacob), and AlAsbat (the twelve sons of Yaqoob (Jacob)), Iesa (Jesus), Ayub (Job), Yoonus (Jonah), Haroon (Aaron), and Sulaiman (Solomon), and to Dawood (David) We gave the Zaboor (Psalms).

(Chapter4:verse 171)
O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is AllSufficient as a Disposer of affairs.

(Chapter4:verse 157)
And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not (i.e. Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) ):

http://www.searchtruth.com

troubledgoodangel, Roma, Italy:

Good point. There are numberous examples of people worshiping Jesus in the Gospels. He never stopped them. He forgave sins (blasphemy to the unbelieving Jews). He was God in the flesh. James, Peter, Paul, etc. were all in agreement on the divinity of Jesus. The book of James starts off:
"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,". The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three distinct manifestations of the one true God. Muslims try to claim Jesus is a separate person. He is not separate from God. He is one with God.
"He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" John 14:9.

Jesus and His inspired followers didn't mince words when they declared Him to be God. Matthew 16:16, "Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,[a] the Son of the living God." (not merely a prophet).

There are two things that I take issue with respect to Mr. Sulayman's remarks. First, the Qu'ran, Hadith 3 if I recall, in a footnote that is sorely too often forgotten by Muslims themselves, says that "Jesus is Mahdi," which of course means "Savior." Only God can be Savior! And, therefore, lest Muslims deny their own Holy Book, they have to accept that Jesus and God are One, and that, lest they believe in Jesus, they shall all die! And secondly, precisely because Jesus is God, He has entered in the realm of Divinity as a Human Being! This is according to Mr. Sulayman "the only point of contention between Muslims and Christians," and I submit that it is a tragedy that the Moslems have not yet seen the light ... for the "point of contention" that Mr. Sulayman mentions simply does not exist! As a matter of fact, such point is moot ever since God came into the world and became Man without ceasing to be God!

Jesus is God Almighty and every person who has ever lived will one day kneel before Him and acknowledge His diety. He came and died for our sins so that we would not have to be eternally seperated from the Godhead. Anyone who puts their faith fully in Him by acknowledging their sin and asking Him to forgive them and come into their life will be born again and receive a new spirit. Amazingly, you have just read the truth of God's plan but how many of you will come to the Lord as you are and let Him apply to your life the gracious work He did for you at the cross?

There is no where in the New Testament that Jesus says I am God so worship me. In fact if you look at the 10 commandments of the Old Testament
I am the Lord your God, You shall have no other gods before Me, You shall not make for yourself an idol. Therefore it is obviously contradictory of Jesus to be divine. Jesus was man who ate food and used the bathroom. In fact all the prophets came with the same message of there is only one God, so it is a blatant lie against Jesus to say that he came with another message.

Sorry I typed your name in above... Veritos

Victoria:

Old Testament prophecy often is fulfilled in two parts. The first part in Jesus' Birth and the second part when He returns again. Muhammad cannot be a prophet because He denies the Sonship of Jesus. John words therefore, classify Muhammad as an antichrist and a false prophet. Muhammad had no right to come along 600 years after Jesus and claim that Jesus was not the Son of God. All cults attack Jesus at His nature. This is true of the JWs, Mormons, Bahai, and Islam. This is the work of the antichrist who hates God's only begotten Son of God. The antichrist attacks the Gospel at the root of its saving power. In the Quran the antichrist denies that Jesus is the Son of God. He denies that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. He denies that Jesus rose from the dead. He does this because He wants to blind humans to the saving power of Jesus death, burial, and resurrection. The Quran is the work of the antichrist and I feel sorry for all who have been deceived by his lies in all the false religions he has concocted. I hope you will see the truth and escape the snare of the Devil.

Victoria:

Old Testament prophecy often is fulfilled in two parts. The first part in Jesus' Birth and the second part when He returns again. Muhammad cannot be a prophet because He denies the Sonship of Jesus. John words therefore, classify Muhammad as an antichrist and a false prophet. Muhammad had no right to come along 600 years after Jesus and claim that Jesus was not the Son of God. All cults attack Jesus at His nature. This is true of the JWs, Mormons, Bahai, and Islam. This is the work of the antichrist who hates God's only begotten Son of God. The antichrist attacks the Gospel at the root of its saving power. In the Quran the antichrist denies that Jesus is the Son of God. He denies that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. He denies that Jesus rose from the dead. He does this because He wants to blind humans to the saving power of Jesus death, burial, and resurrection. The Quran is the work of the antichrist and I feel sorry for all who have been deceived by his lies in all the false religions he has concocted. I hope you will see the truth and escape the snare of the Devil.

New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
[NIV at IBS] [International Bible Society] [NIV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, [a] Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

but the fact is the government never ever WAS on the shoulders of Jesus(ata)

however the government WAS on the shoulders of the Prophet Muhammed(pbuh)

and also even more interesting
the religion He brought- means PEACE

interesting that you should choose that particular passage

but no government was on the shoulder of Jesus(ata)
so isaiah doesnt apply does it?

however the government WAS on the shoulders of the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)

interesting that you should choose that prophecy...

One of Muhammad's statements making him an antichrist and a false prophet:

Qur'an 9:30 And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

The Apostle John is the one who said that those who deny that Jesus is the Son of God is an antichrist. Muhammad contradicts John with the verse above. I will take John's word over Muhammad's word. John was a disciple of Jesus. Muhammad is therefore, an antichrist and a false prophet.

Veritos

Jesus Christ is the Son of God. That is God in human flesh (Isaiah 9:6). The Apostle John said that anyone who denies this is an antichrist. The Apostle John warned:

"Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also" (1 John 2:22-23).

This means that Islam is an antichrist religion and that Muhammad was an antichrist. I base this on the Word of God not my opinion. Sorry for not being politically correct but I am not interested in political correctness but in the truth.

Veritos

that says it KAREN, i appreciate how repsectful you are- os answered exactly right.

Karen,
Christians believe that Adam was born/created without an intervention/involvement of either a man or women. Why dont they claim devinity for him. By your logic Jesus would have been only half devine and Adam more deivne if involvement of humans is taken as a criteria for devinity.

The confidence scam begins with FAITH in the CONFICENCE man.

Is religion a CONFIDENCE scam?

What is FAITH in? Do Baptists have FAITH meaning CONFIDENCE in their preachers? What do they do because they have FAITH in them? They give them money. What do they get for the money?

Karl Marx said, "religion is the opiate of the masses." What do the masses get in return for the money they give the clergy? What do the masses get in return for the money they give opium dealers?

Karl Marx was correct. Religion is as addictive as any opiate. There's an essay withy pictures to explain how opiates work at http://www.hoax-buster.org I think it's on page 3, "about us."

Mr Wolf is also correct. He's too polite. These teachers are teaching lies. You'll find an essay on that at the hoax buster site too.

Islam is a compilation of old Arab polytheistic beliefs with items conveniently borrowed from Christianity and Judeism. Its nice that they believe in Jesus, if they want life they should. God is not in some rock in Mecca. As far as your prophet goes, you might want to take a course in history( real history, not convenient history )

Victoria, if the Quran states that Jesus was not born from intercourse between a man and women and ascertains the virgin birth, then how is this reconciled with Jesus just being a Prophet? Surely if he was a mere man, he would have been conceived the way all other man and women, including the prophets of the old testament and Mohammed himself were conceived? I would really appreciate an explanation from you or any muslim blogger as to how you reconcile this obvious discrepancy. Thanks

Ms. Sahgem,

I echo Norrie's admiration of your posts. They are witty and informative, and you sound like a very centered person. Please don't wait for bad weather to post again. Blessed Be!

Nafi Sahgem,

Your posts are delightful and very interesting. I hope you'll continue to join us in what I agree is mostly the delirium ad infinitum of these threads. I'm hoping for bad weather so that we'll hear from you again. Peace and Best Wishes.

4ANDYTC,

Of course I am an idiot, a nincompoop, a moronic, stupid, ignorant and what have you believer of something greater, more transcendent than us mere mortals : )

I don't know if English is your mother tongue, it is not mine, but it's Buddhism, not Buddast. Mr. Norrie Hoyt knows what he is talking about on Buddhism. And it's Hinduism and Catholicism. Hebrew is a language. The religion is Judaism.

And, of course, I am not a Mr. but a Ms.

Good lord! Have you not been reading anything well and carefully or at all lately, or ever?
The demise of western civilization, as we know it, is not going to be caused by the ignorant, unwashed, uncouth and violent Islamic hordes like me, but by people like you. Don't blame me : )

Tell you what. Keep reading tracts by Robert Spenser, Daniel Pipes, Ann Coulter, Cal Thomas et al. They are really good for the soul and the mind, these neo-Enlightenment gods and goddesses.

But seriously, as you obviously don't believe in religion, do read John Gray's slim volume, 'Straw Dogs - Thoughts on Humans and Other Animals'. You will love it. It is a most wonderful and original book, if you can stand reading.

ANDY- im sorry i cant help myself...

ms. sahgem posted:

And Victoria, I am a woman like you :

and then i replied:

forgive my sexist assumption that you were a mister-

it oftens helps if you read ALL the words.

Mr. Nafi Sahgem, when are you going to recognize that religion is for idiots. All religions! Hindu, Buddast, Catholic and Hebrew.

asalaamualikum nafi - good one.
(getting a rise i mean) forgive my sexist assumption that you were a mister- i read the speech 3 times before i ventured an opinion- aint opinions based on information a wonderful thing?
peace! i hope i see you post again

Ohhhh..... got that rise I wanted:)

Anonymous : ) Deceit? Placate? Diplomacy? I have a name - Nafi Sahgem. I am not anonymously hiding behind the monicker Anonymous : ) in my postings.

Of course I am a Muslim. The only Muslim in this thread because the weather is so bad, I have nothing better to do than websurf. I do have a choice, (yes even totalitarian Muslims have choices, don't all faint at once) to get into this or to just read quietly and laugh out loud. I am elaborating on how Muslims sees Jesus PBUH. No reason to rage, no reason to lose your cool.

So, let me see, I am Muslim apologist? Muslim fundamentalist? Muslim extremist? Muslim radical? Muslim moron? Muslim menace? All that, and oh yes, my personal favourite, Islamofascist. Add a new one - Islamonazi : )

And Harry H,

You are right about that. Not only Muslims have difficulty accepting the notion/article of faith of Jesus as the Son of God, but Jews, Hindus and Buddhists too among others. Someone have to save all our souls then. Leave that to the evangelists. Say, Pat Robertson.

And do read up on Emperor Constantine's Council of Nicea of 325 AD that saw the Nicene Creed being made into an article of faith. Come on boys, explain your beliefs to Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, and Wiccans too. We want to know. We all know what you think and said about us : )for centuries now. Can't we give as good as we got for good natured sparring fun? Read up on all of Hannah Arendt's work, and you will understand where I am coming from.

I suppose one can't take a little Muslim submission/question on matters of faith, dogma and creed in this thread. Did I make you boys nervous? Paranoid? Doubt is an element of faith, no?

Regards and do accept not everyone are Christians for whatever reasons. And do display some confidence in discusssions on race and religion without resorting to labelings and name calling and questioning of reasons/intent. We all don't want to be people who know everything and understand nothing. Certainty is the mark of a fanatic.

And now I leave you all to vent in delirium ad infinitum.

Were the Muslims on the panel trying to placate the viewers out policy, deceit or diplomacy? Nothing of the kind! They were only articulating what God Almighty had commanded them to say in the Holy Qur’ân. As Muslims, they had no choice. They had said in so many words: "We Muslims believe, that Jesus was one of the mightiest messengers of God that he was the Christ, that he was born miraculously without any male intervention (which many modern-day Christians do not believe today), that he gave life to the dead by God's permission and that he healed those born blind and the lepers by god's permission. In fact, no Muslim is a Muslim if he or she does not believe in Jesus!"

THE MUSLIMS BELIEVE THAT THE VIRGIN MARY HAD A BABY WITHOUT INTERCOURSE BUT THEY CAN'T BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD AND THAT HE DID NOT DIE FOR OUR SIN. THEY SAY THIS IS ALL LIES.

Victoria,
Of course you are right about Karl Marx. I did that deliberately to get a rise out of Mr. Burton H Wolfe to see if he knows his 'facts'.

In arguments, it is always convenient to quote something out of context to justify one's points, to unfortunate consequences. Case point - most Muslims did have access to and/or read the whole of Pope Benedict's famous/infamous text on the Prophet.

You are right that we all tend to look at everything from our own values, standards, beliefs, and intellectual/religous traditions. And tend to measure ourselves against the other, or the other against ourselves. "Us vs them" reign still.

And Victoria, I am a woman like you : ), warm regards to you, and hope you have a wonderful Christmas in spite of the so-called 'war against Christmas'.

mr wolfe- the author was using the Qur'an as his source of information. it is poosible to state a view without ripping apart anothers without coherent sources. if you have used his own resource to find flaw in his reasoning that is one thing.
but you didnt and we are all entitled to our own beliefs and reasonings. what a boring world if everyone read the same thing and had the same conclusions.

mr sahgem- karl marx was not making a statement about religion- but was making an observation about the social conditions of the people who lived at that time and how religion is employed to lead them like sheep- please read the entire most misunderstood and most quoted marx quote again and youll see what i mean.

thank you brother nyang for speaking clearly and uneqivically. i appreciate your post and of course your right to make it.

Mr. Burton H Wolfe,
There, there. Of course you are right. As Karl Marx said, "Religion is the opiate of the masses." We are all delusional for believing in the idea of God.

Who ever said that faiths and beliefs are logical or rational? And yet, religion survive through the eons.

Any better set of beliefs and faiths you can come out with apart from tearing apart the current ones? Marx, Stalin and Mao tried and failed.

I have to agree with Pope Benedict that "extreme" secularism is souless. Belief in Almighty God is more satisfying than belief in Almighty Dollar.

And I am expecting your "facts" in retort to this. I do need to be reschooled too.

And after this entry, I shall read the poems of Emily Dickinson, listen to Lucia Popp singing Dvorak's 'Song to the Moon' from Rusulka and look again at Jackson Pollock's posters of paintings that I have just to restore my respect and admiration for western civilization/culture. I can't find any in any of your entries here and before.

Yes, my man, rise up to the challenge to prove that you are better than anyone here in your thinking and beliefs. Convince us, persuade us all
with your arguments and 'facts'. Freedom of expression, thought and belief is a wonderful thing, no? Excuse me while I take time out to pray to God :)

N Sahgem

Mr. Nyang,

You implicitly say that Buddhists "claim divinity" for the Buddha. This is not at all the case.

Buddhists say that Shakyamuni, "the historical Buddha of our era", was an ordinary man who attained enlightenment, thereby becoming a buddha. There are innumerable buddhas in the innumerable universes.

No buddha is the supreme creator or governor of any universe. The universes, uncreated, have existed and will exist eternally.

Sulayman:
    It is becoming more and more of a strain for me to read the ignorance and lunacy appearing on the On Faith web site and yet restrict my comments to facts in lieu of insults. Of course I could just stop reading. But I am not going to do that. I am going to keep responding and enlightening the gullible, ignorant men and women who are being misled by the religion equivalent of snakeoil salesmen.
    To begin with, Sulayman, "Jesus of Nazareth" is also "Jesus of Bethlehem." Because the original scriptures compiled as the Old and New Testaments were destroyed by the early Catholics who then began a thousand years of deleting and rewriting them, and because today there are thousands of different versions, there are all sorts of contradictions in them. Among the contradictions are two different identifications of the town in Judaea where "Jesus" came from - but it really does not matter, since there is no birth record or family record to show that he and "Mary" and "Joseph" actually existed.
    As someone identified by the term "African-American" (though an increasing number of anthropologists believe the origin of all of us was a "black" woman ["Eve"] in Africa),
and as someone identified as a "scholar," you ought to know that there was no exodus of Hebrews from Egypt, just as you ought to know why there was no such person as "Moses" to lead them.
    The story in the Old Testament of the discovery of "Moses" (Moishe) in a basket on a river bank stems from a story carved on a stone tablet circa 2600 B.C. about Babylonian king Sargon the Elder being tossed in a basket by his mother into a river where "Akki the irrigator" found him and raised him. The story of Moses leading an exodus and "parting the waters of the Red Sea" is a rewrite of the story of an ancient king of the African Wafipas tribe leading his followers across Lake Tanganyika as they fled from their threatening enemies. The king dips his staff in blood from sheep the tribe sacrifices and strikes the waters with the blood-covered staff, resulting in the waters parting so that a passage across its exposed bottom is opened for the king and his tribe to escape from their pursuers, who are blocked after the waters close again. That is one of several such stories handed down for thousands of years before there were any Hebrews (or Jews).
    You also need to know, Sulayman, that Hebrews were well respected in ancient Egypt. Many were prosperous business owners and others were recognized as brilliant scholars, especially in Alexandria where they were leaders in the Hellenstic culture which erupted there. Some held high office in the government. One of the pharoahs (whose name escapes me at the moment) respected Hebrew scholars and writers so much that he established an entire library devoted to their literature.
    "Slaves" who had to be led out of Egypt in the rewritten "exodus" fable? That is scriptural claptrap, Sulayman. I shudder to think of the nonsense you are teaching your students.
    As for "the prophet Muhammad," no such person existed. He is nothing more than an invention of ancient Arab scribes who wanted to produce their own "prophet" so that Arabs did not have to depend on the Hebrew or "Christian" "prophets." And "Allah" is nothing more than a substitute for the term "God," which was substituted by the early Catholics for the term "Yahweh," the ancient Hebrews' version of the all-powerful male deity who creates everything: a story invented by primitive, superstitious people and found in every "religion" predating Judaism and its "Christian" version by thousands of years.
    Sulayman, you need to go back to school - regular school, not theological school - and you need to read true history instead of the scriptures, to educate yourself. Until you do so, you are not educating your students. You are feeding them hogwash.

Muslims have, whether they know it or not, inherited the Jewish Christian view of Jesus, found among his immediate disciples led by James of Jerusalem, his brother. Christianity has a Jesus totally invented by Paul of Tarsus and the author of the Fourth Gospel, a Jesus divine or at least made divine. Muslims and Jews have a proper understanding of Jesus. Christians do not. Period.

Mr. Nyang,
You may be upsetting our Christians brothers and sisters.

The dogma of Trinity was forged at the Nicea Conference methinks.

And wait till another Muslim broach on 'original sin' Muslim version - all are born sinless. Christian version - are born sinful. No redemption by anyone else in Islam but the person himself.

Come to think of of the Judeo Christian heritage. Jesus PBUH was a Jew rejected as a Messiah by the Jews, but is lauded as one of the most honoured and respected Prophets in Islam by Muslims along with Moses PBUH.

And there is circumcision for both Jewish and Muslim men, and similar requirements for kosher/halal food.

Since when and how is there a Judeo Christian heritage and/or civilization?

I think you have started another thread for religious rants : )

Happy New Year.

N Sahgem