God On Our Side

Ciao,
I completely agree! This supposed "Faith-based" thing that the people running for office, makes me completely baffled that it would even fly among the United States citizens, all because we have been yelling over the years for State & chruch to be separated!

It's a sad day when the people of the USA are just ready and willing to take what our government officials say at face value. And Sarah Palin saying what she said, is a complete insult to anyone who does not have the same beliefs. She assumes that noone is going to oppose her in what she says all because she believes that the majority will make the minority shut up. Grrrr....

Faith-based politics is a horrible idea. I really honestly hope that it passes and eventually ends. It's a bad sign when religion starts taking over a government, remember ancient Rome? Yes...need I say more? No, that speaks for itself.....

Benedetta sia,
Elisa Aurora

Thank you for that thoughtful look at keeping religion out of politics. I know what my religion says about certain issues, I even know what a lot of other religions say; that is, however, not the point. Our political decisions should be made in the commons--what is best for all.

I love it when people can make fun of their own religion. People like Starhawk ironically show true commitment and love for their tradition!

I understand that the constitution prohibits religious discrimination, BUT, just as a matter of simple logic-

If you believe that the firey end of the world is God's inevitable divine will, (and therefore a GOOD THING?) then you shouldn't be allowed in charge of the nuclear weapons.

Hi Starhawk... should you happened upon my needle in a hay stack type correspondence. I'd, upon sitting at my computer, wanted to broach The God concept within Wicca's God and Goddess theological underpinning. Wanted to even joke, "How about citing the Maker of our planet and its environment perhaps for a sentence or two in any of your future Wicca texts". However, I just started reading, or rather listening to, your work in recent weeks so maybe you already have someplace.

I appreciated your keen, and your probably truly deeply felt, description of wildlife facing the march of could be unbridled greed and progress in our world.

But, that darn The God concept. What is it being left at for now in your group? Quite literally anybody's guess? One of the more mystical "monotheistic" abstractions?

God bless and have a great day.

William
Havonanow@aol.com

The only TRUE religion is No Religion.

If you must believe in something, for your own God's sake, keep it to yourself. Really, no-one cares what you believe.
But to go around saying either overtly or covertly that 'God is on my side, and what I say is to use His/Her voice', is downright stupid and pathetic.

(My opinion here!: Just like Wiccans, and Pagans, Muslims, ad infinitum, really).

If you want a creed to believe in, that cuts through the crap, try this one:

"There is no God but I".

Hi, Gaby,

Many of the impoundments of posts seem to be random. As far as JJ goes, don't ever type in his name, that will get you slammed.

Oh well, maybe not! I typed in something about JJ, maybe that was the trigger for the comment being held.

WOW! It looks like Starhawk has started monitoring her site. I just got a message that said "Thank you for commenting. You comment is being pending approval by the blog owner." Or something to that effect.

Good for her!

"The odd thing about WaPo/Newsweek wanting server info is that others here do not have that problem."

Oh! Well, you could possibly be coming via a server or ISP or anything like that which is vulnerable to being used by spammers and all the usual stuff... A lot of places at least *used* to ban or restrict AOL users, for instance, cause unscrupulous people could take the free minutes and raise a bunch of trouble, then just start another account.

So it's not necessarily about you, it could be there's a Net abuser on your ISP or maybe even up the street.

Paganplace,

The odd thing about WaPo/Newsweek wanting server info is that others here do not have that problem.

Yes, things like the Moscow hotel posts should be deleted, since they are obviously misdirected. And JJ should be banned - he is the only one that I have campaigned against. Even Spidey is not that destructive, although he can be a lot more hateful. CCNL is merely annoying, not destructive. Oh, yes, also that new spammer, Harald, should have his long posts of scripture deleted. May be something about your suggestion about a restriction on length.

I suppose registration would be an obvious answer, considering most of the posters here are regulars, though I suppose it might dissuade newer voices from joining in.

I think the complaints might want your info so they can tell if it's one person posing as a whole lot of people in order to *complain.* I do have to admit that that kind of dissuades. Then again, I'm usually not of the opinion that too much should be censored, unless it's spam and scams, (maybe an option to flag things as such straightforward problems would be of use: probably there's not a lot of editorial effort required to get rid of Russian hotel advertisements and bots and people repeating the same stuff that's already been deleted a thousand times) ...as for what to cut, contentwise, , I tend to incline toward letting undercurrents which sometimes only voiced by haters to be dealt with. I do wonder if people really register just how much hate is out there, after all.

Not that that can't take over. Like what happens on *any* thread by or about a Muslim or Islam, which is the same thing over and over ad nauseam with no one really learning anything.

Of course, where Pagans are involved, people can try much the same thing, but we're pretty used to it. :)

Paganplace,

A good start would be to require registration here. Each poster would have to post under one, and only one, unique handle. An email address would be required. Obviously this would not be a cure-all, but it might slow down the worst of the spamming.

Also, they could make it easier to complain, at least for me. For some reason, they want me to give them technical info about my server....

Yeah, Arminius. Obviously he's got an interesting view of the truth in the first place if he keeps calling *you* openly gay, (just plain a lie, that,) and I think he's confused about which slurs are applied to bi girls. :)

As for what the mods do, apart from periodically deleting his stuff and blocking his IP (or at least forcing him to use new names and mess up his spellings, well, who knows what they *can* do.

I think they probably could at least set a posting length limit. As someone who's probably one of the more verbose posters here from time to time, I'd say there's really no reason for there to need to be five or six screen postings, the only people who need that are cut and pasting huge diatribes or other spam.

http://www.searchingwolf.com/howls.htm - sound on high

Hi, Paganplace,

Yep, JJ is lying bigtime. And continues to try to slime you, B-Man, Gaby, and me. The moderator, of course, does nothing. It would be merely amusing, but I fear he is much worse than that.

Hi, Lep!

JJ is pissed because I found his site. It is certainly his, because his weird style of internet writing is very apparent, and his name is at the bottom. That name I remember well from his earlier posts. I hope you are right about the arse-biting thing.

Hope you and yours are doing fine.

Funny how he's all indignantly claiming to be misrepresented after going for months straight repeating claims about others that'd be slander if anyone took him seriously. :)

Careful with those curses, JJ. Curses have a way of coming back to bite you in the arse.

Well, what I meant, Arminius, is you won't really be without kin,somewhere.

Busy weekend, here.

Frances, presuming you're on the level, careful where you hand out your email address, particularly where something that intimate is concerned.

I read what you said , and heard you very well. I to cry for the children all over the world as well .There is to mamy lies , why des it take lives .Greed ,and hate , when will we ever get people in congress that we can really believe in.My i ask one more question please? I had three spiritual dreams do you know who i may ask about them of a interpertation .The phsyic horoscopes tell me nothing that makes real since.If you do please pass my e-mail address along please so we could talk if you would be so kind i can not afford alot of money but maybe they will not want a arm , and leg to talk about them.IT IS fran19562006@yahoo.com Sincerly blessing , and hugs with smlies FRAN

Paganplace,

"Scott's not a clan, strictly speaking, not by lineage-name. It's a people. :)"

Scott IS a clan. A Scot is an inhabitant of Scotland. So I am a Scott, of Clan Scott, but not a Scot, except by descent. Scot comes from the Scotii tribe of Ireland, who colonized a big piece of Scotland sometime around the middle of the first millenium CE. Scotia could also refer to Ireland.

The preceding message brought to you courtesy of the Church of 'Jesus Christ, What the F is going on, here?"

A Great President and Vice-President

"Truman, whose demeanor was very different from that of the patrician Roosevelt, was a folksy, unassuming president. He popularized such phrases as "The buck stops here" and "If you can't stand the heat, you better get out of the kitchen."[1] He overcame the low expectations of many political observers who compared him unfavorably with his highly regarded predecessor.

At one point in his second term, near the end of the Korean War, Truman's public opinion ratings reached the lowest point yet recorded for any United States president until George W. Bush. Despite negative public opinion during his term in office, popular and scholarly assessments of his presidency became more positive after his retirement from politics and the publication of his memoirs. U.S. scholars today rank him among the top ten best presidents. Truman's legendary upset victory in 1948 over Thomas E. Dewey is routinely invoked by underdog presidential candidates."

from Wikipedia

And, no, I wasn't implying that actual Hillary people 'don't have a brain in their heads.'

I'd have been proud to have Hillary as a President, I just like Obama a lot better for various reasons.

But if you were 'for Hillary' in some way that would make you allegedly choose Mccain over Obama, either you don't know what you were doing or you're part of 'Operation Chaos.'

"And I hate it when democrats confuse themselves with republicans, for example. All those Hillary people threatening to vote for McCain really piss me off - big time."

You do realize they were never Hillary people in the first place, at least if they had a brain in their heads?

Many Republicans, at the behest of Religious Right talk-show hosts, crossed parties in an attempt to subvert the democratic process by keeping 'controversy' in play.

Just like the media has to rewrite things so the Republicans will keep it as close as possible so the now-needing-to-make-a-profit-news departments can make everything a 'horse race' that makes them profitable.

In a sane world, we'd actually be done by now.

For the sake of complete anthropological accuracy, chimps live in groups and baboons live in troops. I think we have to be accurate in our taxonomy and group nomenclature. Lately, humans in the USA are ranked by denomination, religious affiliation and church membership - or lack thereof.

And I hate it when democrats confuse themselves with republicans, for example. All those Hillary people threatening to vote for McCain really piss me off - big time.

And Boyo - Wendy Doniger is getting reamed to the max over on her thread. She of course made the mistake of saying something critical about Sarah Palin. That will get you killed these days. 700+ republicans are ripping her a new one....

The mania that's been generated by Palin is a pure stroke of genius - before this, McCain didn't have a prayer....literally. Now he's got the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing his praises.

In years to come, more than a few will try to make sense of this nonsense, but there will never be a definitive explanation for this insanity.

The USA gets more bizarre by the year - or by the election, to be more accurate. I love accuracy, so sorry for my error!

And, no, I'm not laughing at you, Arminius, just the situation.

On another thread they were saying how thankful indigenous peoples should be for how nice the Catholics were about erasing their heritage, and they can't even keep track of the Highland Revival. :)

The laughter is, you aren't alone, Arminius, not even in that way.

Though some may tell you differently.

For what we make that worth.

"Wow, loss of siblings. I am now the eldest of the Clan. This is literal - I am of Clan Scott, traced back to the Border of Scotland."

Oh, Lady. :) *laughing* See, we don't call people 'kinsman' in that manner lightly. :)

YOu're not the last, friend.

Scott's not a clan, strictly speaking, not by lineage-name. It's a people. :)

All Gaels are 'Scots,' traditionally the name comes from those of the tribe of Mil, and Scota, 'Pharoah's daughter. :)'

Unless you're a laird and didn't tell us, you're not the last. Not as clans are reckoned. :)

Not to make light of your family lineage by the Norman reckoning, but no, you're not the last. :)

Wiccan, my Friend,

Wow, loss of siblings. I am now the eldest of the Clan. This is literal - I am of Clan Scott, traced back to the Border of Scotland (Scotland Forever!) and England (May they rot in Hell! - just kidding...). Yikes! I HATE being the eldest! But I am the proud descendant of horse thieves and cattle rustlers... the main occupation of the border... guard yer herds!

Throw in all the pumps you can, friend, and don't worry about the Braves, at least this year. Try to take care of the good folks here and elsewhere.

Dear God, I have missed my Pagan friends. If you are listening, Angela, try to understand.

Arminius

Arminius,

I'll be doing better when I hear better news from you!

My sympathies are with you, dear. As much as we fought when we were kids, I wouldn't want to imagine life without my brother or sister. It's bad enough that my generation of family are now the "clan elders", as the kids put it. I hope they have the courtesy to wait until after I go.

I have found that my good fortune is like water from the well; I have to keep pumping if I want the water to flow. Will you allow me to throw in some pumps for you? I can't promise the Braves will rally, but it's worth a try!

Wiccan, Dear Friend,

So good to hear from you. Take care of that cat, I know you will. I've got three of 'em, plus two canines.

How have I been? Er,... uh.... oops....
Death of last sibling
Medical leave from work
Unemployed for lack of work
Loss of house
Bankruptcy...

But that is not the worst!!! My Braves are in meltdown! I'm looking for a black armband! AARRGH!

So, friend, are you doing well?

Love ya,

Arminius

Hi, Gaby!

Wow, you propose some difficult conundrums here.

I had no idea that there was such a thing as a Roman Catholic fundie. Good grief. I would do whatever you can to prevent your niece from being robotocized. Gently. Subtly.

Free Will is here on earth, obvious to all. Whether that extends to Heaven, I don't know. It should.

Keep in touch!

Arminius

Nice to be missed, my dear Arminius. :-)

First, I've been nursing a very sick kitty. Cheech has been with me for nine years now, and I want another nine years of his company. He's not quite out of the woods yet, but definitely better than before.

Then the Gods decided I had put off getting a new car long enough, and decided to take action. (My car was 14 years old, and they knew I wouldn't give it up as long as I could get the engine to turn over.) I had just gotten Cheech back from the vet and settled down, and was going to the store for my meds. I got to the top of the hill (about four houses away) when white clouds came pouring from under the hood. I thought a radiator hose had burst, so I whipped around and flew back home. I popped the latch and opened the hood just about the same time my son, who knew I shouldn't have been back that quick, hit the porch, and we were greeted by a fire merrily burning away the engine, so he grabbed the extinguisher and put it out. It wasn't that big of a fire, just about a foot square, but it was enough.

Unbeknowst to me, Divine Providence had arranged for my sister to come down from NY to take care of her grandkid while the baby sitter was on vacation, so when I called for help she was already here! We had spent a day looking at cars when she spied this little car lot, and they happened to have a 2001 van with 33,000 miles on it for a very reasonable price, so we came to an mutually beneficial agreement. My brother, who's disabled too, just loves it because the seats are muc higher than in my little car, and it has much more room for groceries. (We hit BJ's the Saturday after I bought it, and filled up the back!)

So things have calmed down for now, and I have time to catch up with good friends. How have you been? ;-)

"I don't expect harps and clouds and endless hymns. Actually, if I get to something resembling the Pearly Gates, I'm gonna ask St Pete to send me back to Earth, because there is a lot of work still to be done there."

That's the spirit, kinsman. :)

The Wiccan Rede
(Full Version) - with some corrections
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bide within the Law you must, in perfect Love and perfect Trust.
Live you must and let to live, fairly take and fairly give.

For tread the Circle thrice about to keep unwelcome spirits out (especially the "pretty thingies")
To bind the spell well every time, let the spell be said in rhyme.

Spell me, Spell me well, We have said answers to all said spells!!!

Light of eye and soft of touch, speak you little, listen much.
Honor the Old Ones in deed and name,
let love and light be our guides again.

Deosil go by the waxing moon, chanting out the joyful tune.
Widdershins go when the moon doth wane,
and Arminius the werewolf howling hell by the dread wolfsbane.

When the Lady's moon is new, kiss the hand to Her times two.
When the moon rides at Her peak then your heart's desire seek.

Heed the North winds mighty gale, lock the door and trim the sail.
When the Wind blows from the East, expect the new and set the feast.

When the wind comes from the South, love will kiss you on the mouth.
When the wind whispers from the West, all hearts will find peace and rest.

Nine woods in the Cauldron go, burn them fast and burn them slow.
Birch in the fire goes to represent what the Lady knows.

Oak in the forest towers with might, in the fire it brings the God's
insight. Rowan is a tree of power causing life and magick to flower.

Willows at the waterside stand ready to help us to the Summerland.
Hawthorn is burned to purify and to draw faerie to your eye.

Pollute not said covens there. Let said willows and hawthorn be.

Hazel-the tree of wisdom and learning adds its strength to the bright fire burning.
White are the flowers of Apple tree that brings us fruits of fertility.

Grapes grow upon the vine giving us both joy and wine.
Fir does mark the evergreen to represent immortality seen.

Elder is the Lady's tree burn it not or cursed you'll be.
Four times the Major Sabbats mark in the light and in the dark.

As the old year starts to wane the new begins, it's now Samhain.
When the time for Imbolc shows watch for flowers through the snows.

When the wheel begins to turn soon the Beltane fires will burn.
As the wheel turns to Lamas night power is brought to magick rite.

Four times the Minor Sabbats fall use the Sun to mark them all.
When the wheel has turned to Yule light the log the Horned One rules.

In the spring, when night equals day time for Ostara to come our way.
When the Sun has reached it's height time for Oak and Holly to fight.

Harvesting comes to one and all when the Autumn Equinox does fall.
Heed the flower, bush, and tree by the Lady blessed you'll be.

Where the rippling waters go cast a stone, the truth you'll know.
When you have and hold a need, harken not to others greed.

With a fool no season spend or be counted as his friend.
Merry Meet and Merry Part bright the cheeks and warm the heart.

Mind the Three-fold Laws you should three times bad and three times good.
When misfortune is enow wear the star upon your brow.

Be true in love this you must do unless your love is false to you.

These Eight words the Rede fulfill:

"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"

Paganplace - and to continue, one real difference between wolf packs, chimp troops, lion prides, and human beings is that the Alpha male is sometimes a female. That's all well and good, but let's hope it's not Sarah Palin. Hillary would have been good, but it was not meant to be.

Shooting animals from planes is truly despicable behavior - but politicians that have deceived the nation, broken the public trust, perpetrated the loss of thousands of lost lives unnecessarily, and covered their tracks with perpetual lies, should be fair game. They get snow shoes, of course.

It's mind boggling that so many still want more of the same - and can't seem to perceive the similarities with McCain/Palin. And now Rove is spinning it as a 'feminist' issue.

Therein lurks truly evil genius....

Arminius,

You, my dear, may call me whatever you wish!

Arminius,

Also, the reason I am asking is that my newest sister-in-law is a "fundamentalist" Catholic who has indoctrinated my little 2-year old niece since birth. She believes that she will see her whole family again in the hereafter, but only if they weren't heathens. She told me that she "knows for a fact" that my mother will see my deceased father again when she dies. I am not so sure Mom would like to. And if she doesn't want to, will they make her? Is free will not an option in the Christians to heaven?

Gaby,

My apologies! From now on, you are Ma'am, in the grand Southern tradition of politeness - unless you object. (I use that term even with my daughter, BTW...).

I too honor my Pagan friends. I see the interconnections all too well. We are all one.

Arminius,

Give it some thought and ask around! It really would interest me.

Personally, I believe that we become one with the universe (which I believe is concious somehow) in no worldy form whatsoever and eventually we are recycled. What you call soul, I call energy. Energy can not disappear, therefore it must go somewhere. For the rest, your guess is as good as mine.

I think that all of us have some kind of imagination or fantasy as to what it will be like. I can understand my Pagan friends really well, because in a way they also believe everthing is interconnected and every action has a reaction.

Also, I am not a sir. I am a 55 year old female, and my name really is Gaby (short for Gabriele).

Hi, Wiccan!

About damn time you showed up! Where you been, friend?

Yeah, beware of any 'People of the Book'. Any religious book is only a doorway, not the ultimate repository of all knowledge.

Angela can be difficult to deal with, but she is on the right path. I firmly believe that.

Don't leave us!

Arminius

Hi, Gaby,

Well asked questions, sir.

I'll try to give you some thoughts from this still-searching Christian.

What's after death? I can't answer for my friend Angela - but me, well, I have no freakin' idea. But I do know one thing: if there are no dogs and cats there, I ain't goin'.

In short, I don't know. Furthermore, I don't care. I am 65, and will find out shortly. I have no fear of death. I don't know why that is so, but it is. I've tried to walk in the footsteps of Jesus, as set forth in the Gospels. If that is not good enough, then nothing else can be.

I don't expect harps and clouds and endless hymns. Actually, if I get to something resembling the Pearly Gates, I'm gonna ask St Pete to send me back to Earth, because there is a lot of work still to be done there.

Merry Meet, all.

I remember going to several "Commitment to Excellence" seminars foisted on us by our parent company. (To us, "CTE" meant "Continually Torture Employees".) One of their big insights was that not only did you have to walk the walk, and talk the talk, but you also had to walk the talk. Or as my dad told us, "Listen to what a man says, and see if it is what he does". I find the problem with "book religions" is that one can take all those words to mean exactly what you already believe. I know to me the scriptures that help you to change yourself make more sense to me, and can't figure out where some get off telling others they have to change. I'm sure Angela feels in her heart she is trying to save us Pagans from unspeakable Hell, and is bewildered when we take it as an attack. If she would walk in our shoes for a few meters, she'd see how the book that brings her such joy and comfort has been used as a weapon to harm those not of the "Book".

Arminius and Pluperfect, Right On! It takes a real ball-less wonder to shoot a polar bear from a plane, have his guide behead it, then mount it on his wall, saying, "Me! Me mighty hunter!"

Bear droppings.

One thing that would REALLY interest me is what people like Angela expect after they die? Is it something like a never-never world where god resides in a mighty building, sitting on a throne, his son at one side, his spirit on the other? And there will be all the "good" people surrounded by billowing clouds? And they can hear screams for down below and thank god every day that they are "up there" and not "down there"?

I really mean that in all honesty. I have no idea what those people believe. Also, will there be animals since they can't worship? Or only people? And what will they look like? Like they did when they died, or like Teenagers? Will they be young adults? And if they go as a married couple, can they have sex?

This are all questions that have intrigued me, but I don't dare ask someone in person.

"Me: I am well aware of that, but your bitterness envelops you like a shroud."

What do you figure it's 'shrouding,' then, judger-of-hearts?

Besides, it's apparently very, very bad in the right-wing mind to suggest anyone is 'bitter,' ...don't look at that. It's contempt.... Complete disrespect and unacceptable to even mention. No one's bitter about nothing, especially recurring cycles we could do better at disrupting.

Let's have a 'Bittergate.'

Tsk tsk.

Yes. I have bitterness. For darn good reasons you may not understand as a new convert to what I in fact have supported you in embracing. I wear the mask. It does not wear me.

"Yes, the 'Hate the sin, love the sinner" is hypocrisy at its worst. It enables those who say it to hate both. It is not limited to homophobia by any means."

Of course not, it's *coercion.* It's meant to say, 'The hate of you for being 'different' will stop when you stop being what you are to us, so you're 'attacking' us if you call it what it is... hateful.'

Of course it doesn't stop: if it's not one thing, it's something else. This is what happens when you capitulate to these sorts of tactics.

Speaking of fights, you know when someone being aggressive starts rationalizing how they are 'under attack' and 'must defend themselves,'

...That something all-too-familiar is fixing to come down.

Paganplace,

"Kind of like how people escalate talk into a 'fight for their lives' ...when they've never even experienced anything anywhere *near that.*

Never mind a fight for someone *else's* life."

Me: I am well aware of that, but your bitterness envelops you like a shroud.

Gaby,

"There is something about blogging on the internet under a moniker that seems to bring out the worst in people! I think the majority of people won't not act that way if they had to face you and look you in the eye."

Right you are. Reach out.

Yes, the 'Hate the sin, love the sinner" is hypocrisy at its worst. It enables those who say it to hate both. It is not limited to homophobia by any means.

Kind of like how people escalate talk into a 'fight for their lives' ...when they've never even experienced anything anywhere *near that.*

Never mind a fight for someone *else's* life.

"There is something about blogging on the internet under a moniker that seems to bring out the worst in people!"

It's the nature of the medium, Gaby. Here, there is nothing but words and... imagination.

It tends to amplify disagreement, when any sort of way of viewing things is all that's in play.

Good for *defining* disagreement, but not so much for actual hands.

Daniel ITLD,

WOW! I had no idea! I thought it was good for all sins. So now I can hate all the sinners, except the gay ones? Incredible!

Arminius,

I know that reaching out is the way to go and I am very good at it is person. There is something about blogging on the internet under a moniker that seems to bring out the worst in people! I think the majority of people won't not act that way if they had to face you and look you in the eye.

Daniel ITLD,

If we don't reach out, nothing will ever be solved. The internecine wars will continue.

"Angela is not interested in finding common ground on things like this, and neither am I. If she keeps a clenched fist towards all who do not conform to her fundamentalism, then I will keep mine clenched too, so as not to be caught off guard."

A clenched fist isn't guard, Daniel. Speaking of the Fosterer of Warriors. ;)

Besides, I tend to treat as an axiom, "Never hit a man with a closed fist. Unless it's very, very, funny. :)"

But, yeah, if you keep that fist clenched, you'll end up 'thinking' with it.

(And, yeah, when people start thinking of their souls as part of a 'fight' they think with that, too. That's part of how the 'sides' end up looking alike.)

For Gaby

"Hate the sin, not the sinner," is the conservative Christian code for homophobia. It is applied to one sin, and to one sin only, homosexuality. It is their loophole, that makes them feel good about not hating gay people, yet still expressing a crude hostility. This is weird hypcocrisy.

Angela is not interested in finding common ground on things like this, and neither am I. If she keeps a clenched fist towards all who do not conform to her fundamentalism, then I will keep mine clenched too, so as not to be caught off guard.

Arminius,

I agree with you on the wars and on the ongoing bitterness in the world. When I was young I dreamed of having no borders, no countries, no different languages and peace among all people. Unfortunately, that is a Utopia that we shall never reach.

Paganplace,

Right you are about the Mountain Lions, we had three instances in the last year where they were seen in town. One attacked a bike rider and one stalked a child. I have seen coyotes on a few occasions who would just love and take care of my little poodles and dachshund.

"Your bitterness defeats the compassion that I see in you."

Don't you see, they're part of the same thing, Arminius?

Another thing that's not the 'internal battle' someone cracked it up to be.

A lot of people are bitter. How can one be compassionate and not *feel* that?

The question is, what do we change this into next.

Do we take the easy, pious, control-based answer, or in fact, do we embrace each other *as* humans, not as 'Who Angela or a pope or a King or Sarah Palin calls 'Children of God.'

I think yer man Jesus got on a hill at some point and mentioned some qualifications for that particular appellation, if that's what you like. :)

" pluperfect:

"I don't mind being a pack animal as long as I get to be the alpha male - otherwise, it kind of sucks."

Who taught you it sucks?

I know they say, 'If you aren't the lead dog, the view never changes,' but how bout them harnesses?

"I just met one the other day, and I wasn't him. Boy did that bite it ...."

Some will teach that the only good place to be is in 'power' ...but that's not how wolf packs... or primate groups work.

If *everyone* was supposed to be the alpha breeder, why, folks might start to wonder why they're having trouble competing and they have no sense of family or something.

Paganplace,

One final, last comment.

You reached out to me, and I am a very difficult person.

Cannot you reach out to others?

Your bitterness defeats the compassion that I see in you.

"Indeed, Angela is not the middle ground. Am I? Are you? This is the whole point here."

I certainly may find myself 'standing' in a lot of people's crossfires, but maybe that's where I got these twinkle-toes. :)

"Define 'Right Ground' and give three examples."

You'd like a definition? Isn't that the problem?

Examples would include how it comes about lots of folks call me a 'Good Samaritan' if not an 'Angel.' :)

"So people draw up sides. The sun rises too. Can't we get together and at least TRY to get the sides to talk? HOW THE HELL ELSE WILL THIS END?"

Who says it had to *end?* Particularly immediately?

You're talking to Pagans, here.

Nothing ends, really.

It changes. What does it change into *next* is the business of living.

"Yeah, the 'fight' is in all of us. Does that make it good? I battle my Celtic fury every day. I ask you to take a look at yours."

Well, that's the advantage of being a Pagan of Irish extraction, we got all manner of mirrors for that, not to mention Gods that are familiar with the phenomenon. Our stories are *full* of stuff about this. Mostly people say, 'This is proof of barbarity' then go have a denominational barfight, but they don't *get the lessons.*

You don't *battle* fury. That's like fighting wetness with a firehose. That's someone turning your passions *against* you till it comes out on someone else.

You battle *with* fury. When you need that.

Otherwise, Who Fosters Warriors may as well be signing you on with the Jedi Knights. :)

Check out the tales of Fionn, and how he managed his band.

I don't mind being a pack animal as long as I get to be the alpha male - otherwise, it kind of sucks.

I just met one the other day, and I wasn't him. Boy did that bite it ....

Shooting animals from air planes should be punishable by being dragged until dead, behind a dog sled. It only seems fair.....

Hi, Gaby,

I am not about to walk up and pet a wolf. I am quite aware about the dangers of wild animals - I have an intimate familiarity with bears. Never trust a bear. These grand beasts, bears, wolves, etc., ain't teddy bears.

Yes, I know about how Angela comes across. I have tried to tell her about this. All I am saying is that we gotta swallow our pride, or whatever, and keep talking. There is all too much war in the world already, and we don't need more here. All the bitterness just makes everything worse.

"As far as wolves go. I live in MT where they so kindly reintroduced wolves. I can guarantee you that they are neither gentle nor nice animals."

They're predators. They do have admirable attributes, of course, some we'd do well to learn from, instead of demonizing them when they encroach on humans' presumptive 'Dominion.'

They're part of the ecosystem that lets you graze your sheep there or grow your food without prey animals eating the crops and getting sickened by lack of challenge.

" They definitely do not resemble cuddly dogs."

" We have many incidents here where they have gone after lifestock, paricularly sheep, but also cows and calves which has cost our farmers and ranchers a good penny. If you encounter one in the wild you better stay as far away as possible or bring a gun."

We *do* have guns, though. No need to be superstitious about em. You're safer with wolves than cougars, anyway.

Well, Paganplace,

(Says he, opening another beer),

Indeed, Angela is not the middle ground. Am I? Are you? This is the whole point here.

Define 'Right Ground' and give three examples.

I stand, in my ragged shoes, in and for America, but I stand for all the world.

Yes, dance. There is wisdom in that. I know that full well, from my beloved daughter.

So people draw up sides. The sun rises too. Can't we get together and at least TRY to get the sides to talk? HOW THE HELL ELSE WILL THIS END?

Yeah, the 'fight' is in all of us. Does that make it good? I battle my Celtic fury every day. I ask you to take a look at yours.

As long as we're on the subject of who is praying for what...
"Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will." --Barack Obama

Arminius,

Angela may not be hateful, but her fervency comes across as such. She may go by that adage "Hate the sin, not the sinner." Which in my humble opinion is an one of the most idiotic statements ever.

What the heck does that mean?? If someone murders a family member I am supposed to hate the act but embrace the murderer?

As far as wolves go. I live in MT where they so kindly reintroduced wolves. I can guarantee you that they are neither gentle nor nice animals. They definitely do not resemble cuddly dogs. We have many incidents here where they have gone after lifestock, paricularly sheep, but also cows and calves which has cost our farmers and ranchers a good penny. If you encounter one in the wild you better stay as far away as possible or bring a gun.

"Let me say this about Angela: she does not hate. Yes, she is defensive, and too exclusive. But she does NOT hate. She knows that God is love. Contrast that with Spidey. Hell, contrast that with CCNL."

Well, I've said it before in other contexts, but someone else being worse doesn't mean how the 'lesser evil' treats a third party *right.*

She's not the middle ground. And the middle ground isn't always the *right* ground.

"Where do you stand, friend? Where do you really stand? This madness cannot begin to end without the help of many."

I stand in my shoes. I stand on the Earth. I stand in myself, and I stand with America. As she was meant to be. For all of us.

Even her.

Not just stand. Dance.

As for the madness, well. People drew up 'sides' to divide the people.

Is that really where the 'fight' is?

"That, Arminius, is because humans are actually far more like pack animals than herd animals."

Of course, Paganplace. We are hunters. Indeed, we are wolves on two legs, designed by evolution to pursue game. We can pursue our prey, through endurance, but outrun no predators. Thus, brains evolved.... spears to repel the lions, spears to bring down our dinner.

Venison makes a wonderful stew.

Paganplace,

If I can reach out a hand to Angela, then by damn bloody hell, anyone on the planet can. Including you.

Block the fist. Extend a hand. This defensive crap on both your parts must end, or the fight goes on forever. Is that what you want?

Let me say this about Angela: she does not hate. Yes, she is defensive, and too exclusive. But she does NOT hate. She knows that God is love. Contrast that with Spidey. Hell, contrast that with CCNL.

Where do you stand, friend? Where do you really stand? This madness cannot begin to end without the help of many.

"For some unexplained reason, I feel a powerful empathy to wolves, and cannot explain it. Maybe try looking at the family structure of these incredible animals, caring for their young, and contrast that with the love-em-and-leave-em of herbivores."

That, Arminius, is because humans are actually far more like pack animals than herd animals.

Though some may tell you different.

Hi, Athena,

For some unexplained reason, I feel a powerful empathy to wolves, and cannot explain it. Maybe try looking at the family structure of these incredible animals, caring for their young, and contrast that with the love-em-and-leave-em of herbivores. Anyway, as Speaker-to-Animals said, in 'Ringworld', "How much intelligence does it take to sneak up on a leaf?"

Shooting wolves from planes should be a felony.

I mean, hey, Arminius, you see how she dehumanizes those different from her.. According to some polemics written about people in ancient times.

"“Satan can take on both masculine and feminine…Satan is the unknowable god.” The God of the Bible is a personal Father to His people."

What, no Scriptural attribution? Or is that cause it came from Mel Gibson's little Passion play?

"You should want to be privileged to be a slave of righteousness (Romans 6:18), and thankful for the chance to call God “Father” (Romans 8:15)."

Not in America I shouldn't. 'Righteous' is in deeds, not words, in America. And we believe there's no religion in compulsion.

Or at least we used to.

"A child who has been taught to pray to a Mother in Heaven would have a religious life radically different from the one that the true God (The Father) hears. "

Yeah, I'll have to say, Pagan kids don't go through what I did. It shows.

I could tell you Who was there, anyway.

And She wasn't the one asking for bent knees or slavery.

You see, Angela. Your religion may teach that anyone not kneeling to your authority is 'attacking' you. This is not reality. And it's not what America is about.

You so-reflexively defend Sarah Palin because they tell you she's the 'Christian' candidate to get you to accept McCain and a continuation of Bush policies, even if she's so dangerously-unqualified she doesn't even know what the Bush Doctrine *is* ...Is this the 'righteous' candidate?

Or one of those wolves in sheep's clothing?

Actually, I'm more a renegade sheepdog, and sometimes you gotta look at the shepherds and say, "My, what big teeth you have."

(Speaking of dogs and wolves, Athena, be very careful with wolves, they have *not* developed the same social reactions to human speech and body language as our closer friends. :))

Angela - the point is that Pagans don't pray according to the Bible, nor do we worship Yahweh/Jehovah or Jesus. We view Jesus as a version of the dying-and-rising God figure like Osiris, Tammuz, Dumuzi, etc. The Bible certainly has many good teachings, but many bad ones as well. It's not the basis of our religion. We are a SEPARATE BELIEF SYSTEM from the Abrahamic faiths. We don't believe in your Heaven and Hell, and we're not afraid of death. To us, death is just another part of the birth-life-death-rebirth cycle of nature. Can't you wrap your brain around that fact?

Oh, and wolves are nothing to be afraid of, either. They rarely attack humans, or healthy cattle. I was just at a wolf preserve a few weekends ago, and enjoyed seeing those beautiful creatures. They're just like big, cuddly dogs until you do something to upset them. So yeah, I suppose Arminius WOULD be a wolf! :D

"Easy does it, Paganplace.

Are not outreached hands of friendship better than fists? Surely you know that better than I."

I also know a fist when it's coming at me, velvet glove or not. These are just the blocks, you're reading. :)

Easy does it, Paganplace.

Are not outreached hands of friendship better than fists? Surely you know that better than I.

Paganplace,

You are not a character out of the bible I read. As a matter of fact, I don't know where the hell you are from. But you are a remarkably intriguing character!

"It's so very hard to speak to people because we all think we're good."

That's... An interesting condition to put on social contact.

What, people are supposed to agree with your assessment they're *bad* before you can be part of the world?

"I'm not here to condemn:"

Just call people 'thieves' and 'wrong' 'taking the easy way out' and 'For destruction?'

" I'm grieved that what is more important: we can have money, degrees, intellect but on our death bed we need forgiveness from God; we can't take anything w/us except our soul and if it's not surrendered to Him, what happens...?"

Well, I could tell you stories. :)

You may have your religious beliefs about these fears of death which are also framed by your religious beliefs, ...this does not mean that it's a good idea for a *democracy* to govern over who's 'sinners' and who's 'saved.'

Even if that ever worked, we don't have time.

It's the goodness in people that's gonna get us through this, not setting yourselves up to believe that not-eradicating all other viewpoints is a 'fight for your own lives.'

These are not your lives you're trying to rule.

In some areas, no one can really do that for anyone. No one.

Hello, Angela,

About all I can say here is Walk the Walk, forget about the talk. Live by example, pray in your secret chamber, as our Lord said in Matthew - not on the street corner.

Gandhi said some revealing things about Christianity:

"I love your Christ. It's Christians I can't stand."

"If Christians would live like Christ, instead of just talking about it, then everybody would want to be Christian."

Walk the Walk, my friend.

God Bless,

Arminius

Here's another posting I knew would bring em out of the woodwork. :)

We're not characters out of your Bible, Angela, and others.

Hi Arminius: I was asking you the question as everyone is so so afraid to speak to people. Yes, it's not easy and it's a journey...I get it all the time, as I leave my home in the morning, I ask God to give me the boldness to proclaim the gospel of peace (peace w/God) I only speak to people who I believe He calls me to speak to: some people don't like it and they hate you for it, some may even spit on you...then I just pray ok; planted the seed, may someone else come and water and then God will make it grow. But, Christianity is in a fight for it's life as we are ashamed of the gospel. It should not be. Think of in Acts, when Peter was speaking to those who were first saying: ooh, he's giving us bread and fish, and then when the Pharisees and the Saducees were so afraid as they plotted to kill Him for greed which was prophecy when Caiphas said: let one man die instead of many. WOW; THE GOSPEL. All of the diciples died horrible deaths: every last one of them and we are told to preach the good news to the ends of the earth. Yes, the walk is a difficult walk; believe me I know, but when I look back, before I saw myself clearly in His eyes not through the world's eyes, I knew I was headed for disaster. It's so very hard to speak to people because we all think we're good. Faith is waking up every day and saying: I will not shrink back, I will follow Him, not Him follow me: that's why it says: Enter through the narrow gate for wide is the gate that leads to destruction and many go through that gate. Picture a man with a key to a mansion and then another tries to climb up and in without a key: he's a thief and the master of the house won't let him in because he tried to enter through the wrong way. I'm not here to condemn: I'm grieved that what is more important: we can have money, degrees, intellect but on our death bed we need forgiveness from God; we can't take anything w/us except our soul and if it's not surrendered to Him, what happens...?

Angela,

You and Arminius both believe in the same scripture. The reason you feel ridiculed about your Christian believes is because you are so FERVENT. Arminius on the other hand is the kinder, gentler Christian.

There are millions of people in this country that do not believe in the Bible, or if they do believe in it, they do not take it literally as you do.

Honestly, think about it. You believe there was a garden of Eden, that there was Noah's Ark, that Jonah was swallowed by a whale, etc, etc. None of those people wrote anything down, everything is the bible second, third, fourth..... party hearsay. None of the people who actually would have had first hand knowledge ever wrote anything down. If Jesus really existed and really was God's son with all the powers ascribed to him, then why did't he write the Bible? He could have done it in the blink of an eye and then at least we would have it straight from the horses mouth.

I do not begrudge you your faith, but I am vehemently opposed to religion in politics. That is why I will not vote for Sarah Palin. As I said before, the Office of the President (including the VP) is mandated to represent ALL Americans, not only the ones who call themselves Christian.

Angela,

Hello, friend. You ask tough questions! That is as it should be, we are here to learn. But, as Churchill said, 'Jaw-jaw is better than war-war'.

We must all search for a common ground. This will not be easy, a lifelong task.

As to scripture. This is particularly hard for me. Let me give you a short history, if you don't mind. I am a cradle Episcopalian, clear through to graduation from an Episcopal college. At that point, I disengaged from religion altogether, and was a non-believer for over three decades. Because of a profound spiritual - yes, spiritual! - experience, I KNOW that God is with me, and with everybody, and always will be. From there, I picked up the bible.... I had the good sense to begin with Matthew. It took four readings of the Gospels, Acts, and numerous letters by Paul & Co., over a period of several years, before I was convinced. I then went to a noon-day service in an Episcopal church near where I worked, and realized that, after over 30 years of searching and doubting, I had finally come home.

Faith is not a destination, it is a journey. Mine still continues.

Oh, yeah, I got distracted about scripture. The Word of God is there. But it is seen through a glass darkly, written by fallible men. I am by no means a literalist. The bible is not the final word, God's plan is still unfolding.

Where do I really stand? In the Gospels. Everything else is either commentary, supporting data, or mythology with metaphor attached.

God bless,

Arminius

Arminius, Absolutely...but how do we get to a common ground. I know you see the very very left and the very very right; who are neither good or righteous, slinging such horrific stuff about each candidate; how is this helping...Also, how do those who love God get to a place where we are not being ridiculed for believing...Let me ask you, do you believe scripture is God's word...I mean not say it but believe it...Do you believe that He calls us to love in which if you love your wife, your children, your family, do you let them eat M&Ms all day just to keep the peace; it's not healthy, it can actually be quite unhealthy and deadly. That's what I believe we are being told we must do to keep the peace. I don't believe that's love, that's intolertant tolerance...

Arminius, Absolutely...but how do we get to a common ground. I know you see the very very left and the very very right; who are neither good or righteous, slinging such horrific stuff about each candidate; how is this helping...Also, how do those who love God get to a place where we are not being ridiculed for believing...Let me ask you, do you believe scripture is God's word...I mean not say it but believe it...Do you believe that He calls us to love in which if you love your wife, your children, your family, do you let them eat M&Ms all day just to keep the peace; it's not healthy, it can actually be quite unhealthy and deadly. That's what I believe we are being told we must do to keep the peace. I don't believe that's love, that's intolertant tolerance...

Hi, Angela,

Yes, friend, you say you do not judge, and I believe that you do not mean to do this. But your posts do come across as judgment. I must be honest about this. Note that extensive quoting of scripture here is waving a red flag in the face of many people with whom we might otherwise converse.

Here are a few comments as to where I stand:

God is too big for any church, or any religion.
We are ALL God's children. He loves all of us.
We do not know the mind of God, despite any scripture.
We see through a glass darkly.
We must walk the walk, and tone down the talk the talk.

In other words, we don't know. We just have confusing guidelines. Meanwhile, we all should get along. No, this does NOT mean singing Kumbiya, or whatever that silly song is. It means standing together, all of us....

I know that you, like me, try our best to walk the walk that our Lord taught. We just must be careful about the 'talk the talk' stuff.

God bless,

Arminius

Arminius, We live in a fallen world and we have come to see the earth as our footstool. It's not...Also, until we all can come to a conclusion that God has given us His instructions on how we are to live, to love and to obey HIM, this is meaningless. Until we all can come to a conclusion, that there's only one God and HE's given us HIS word so we can know HIS character. Until we can agree on the proof of prophecy and archaeological truth about Christ and God (The Father), this will not get us anywhere. We idolize our children, our mates, our jobs, money but have a problem with glorifying the one True God. Also, over and over through what happens in this world, HE's clearly giving us opportunity after opportunity.

IF my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
7 And the LORD said: “I have surely seen the oppression of My people who are in Egypt, and have heard their cry because of their taskmasters, for I know their sorrows. 8 So I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up from that land to a good and large land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites. 9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel has come to Me, and I have also seen the oppression with which the Egyptians oppress them. 10 Come now, therefore, and I will send you to Pharaoh that you may bring My people, the children of Israel, out of Egypt.”
11 But Moses said to God, “Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh, and that I should bring the children of Israel out of Egypt?”
12 So He said, “I will certainly be with you. And this shall be a sign to you that I have sent you: When you have brought the people out of Egypt, you shall serve God on this mountain.”
13 Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?”
14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’

Hi Arminius, I am not judging them, I quoted scripture from the Holy Bible for which is the Christian Belief. When have we become ashamed of the gospel. This post was about Sarah Palin not about pagan beliefs. To make a god to suit yourself is SIN. Isn't that what the 2nd commandment says. Why do we as believers tend to water down or condone when others are blasheming or making God into a Human God and calling His children (the elect) scary, mean or nasty. What is going on w/Christianity. All I'm saying is that there's only one God and that's of Holy Scripture. I am not here to call people names: I'm quoting from God (The Father's) words interpreted by His prophets. Also, Holy Scripture says this: John 1:10-13; 10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[a] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God AND John 8:42-48; 42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." 1 JOHN 1:3; 1How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him.

THESE ARE NOT MY WORDS. WE ARE ALL GOD'S CREATION BUT NOT ALL HIS CHILDREN.

Mark 8:38; If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."

"The Wiccan Rede

Bide within the Law you must, in perfect Love and perfect Trust.
Live you must and let to live, fairly take and fairly give.

For tread the Circle thrice about to keep unwelcome spirits out.
To bind the spell well every time, let the spell be said in rhyme.

Light of eye and soft of touch, speak you little, listen much.
Honor the Old Ones in deed and name,
let love and light be our guides again.

Deosil go by the waxing moon, chanting out the joyful tune.
Widdershins go when the moon doth wane,
and ARMINIUS THE WEREWOLF HOWLING by the dread wolfsbane.

When the Lady's moon is new, kiss the hand to Her times two.
When the moon rides at Her peak then your heart's desire seek."

Hi, Angela,

This will be difficult for me. You and I have, in a virtual sense, extended hands across the aisle, so to speak, and I respect this.

But, please be careful with your words here. I know these Pagans - on the web - and have a deep and abiding respect for them. They are hugely decent, very tolerant, and continue to be that way despite being persecuted. They are God's children too, and deserve our respect, even if our beliefs differ. If a fellow human is a really good person, can anyone be justified in judging him or her for any reason? Would Jesus have done that? My Pagan friends may not be Christians, but they sure as hell are Good Samaritans. I would love to have them as neighbors.

Like you and I have agreed, we need to converse, even if we disagree, but not accuse or preach.

We're all God's children, can't you see?
It's not us and them, it's WE and WE.

God bless,

Arminius

To those who worship Goddesses and/or Mother Earth: “…the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshippers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in Spirit and in Truth” (John 4:23-24). No where in scripture is God's names: called by an infeminite or female: In addition: you may believe that Calling God ‘Father’ is a metaphor.” To call Him other than the names in scripture is cultic and demonic. The deceptive spirit you are in is not going to let up and the lies are going to get worse in this movement. I as a Christian will speak in defense of the God of the Bible in reference to and in reverence of His character and holiness. Why can’t you cry out and repent in gratitude of God’s love instead of being so concerned with changing Him into a god more along the paradigm of your feminist agenda? I am reminded the demonic realm always inspires to glorify and empower people. The Holy Spirit is different. He glorifies Jesus. He humbles and convicts people. The Holy Spirit is not in the work of making unrepentant sinners feel comfortable.

When feminists transformed the biblical feminine metaphor for the divine into a name for God, they needed to extend that practice to other metaphors, as well. His personality was thus further diffused to encompass all natural phenomena. Renaming God in a way other than He has named Himself logically led to an erosion of God's independent personality and is an abonmination. If you are praying to a “Mother” you are certainly not praying to the God of the Bible. He is a Spirit with a male gender, and that is perfectly fine and non-offensive to any redeemed, wretched sinner at the foot of the cross! And woe to the people who are trying to rename Him.

“Satan can take on both masculine and feminine…Satan is the unknowable god.” The God of the Bible is a personal Father to His people.

"Who has bewitched you?" (Galatians 3:1) Who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you." (Galatians 5:7-8)

You should want to be privileged to be a slave of righteousness (Romans 6:18), and thankful for the chance to call God “Father” (Romans 8:15).

"A child who has been taught to pray to a Mother in Heaven would have a religious life radically different from the one that the true God (The Father) hears.

2nd Commandment from Holy Scripture: 4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Also, to those who say they're Christians and think it's ok to bow down or agree that worshipping other Gods or Goddesses which is in direct opposition to scripture...Woe to you.

Hi, Athena,

Maybe I should change my handle to 'Christian Werewolf'. I'm certainly not allergic to silver!

I, for one, do appreciate and honor the equality of women.

"Is that a werewolf howling??"

Werewolf?

There wolf! There castle!

Of course we have Wiccan priests, you dolt. We worship the divine as both God and Goddess. Of course, men of quality appreciate women's equality.

Sarah Palin never said God is on our side. She while being stared down by Charlie Gibson said she prays that we are on God side (as being in God's will). This really needs to stop, it's just down right nasty and again, when anyone says that God is on their side and make up Gods to suit theirselves, (i.e., calling God "Goddess or Her Highness), you are in idolatry...no where in HOLY SCRIPTURE DOES IT SAY; SHE OR GODDESS...What's a pity is hateful, biased, want to win at any course, even to try to strip someone of their dignity and malign and attack even to putting her in red, white and blue bikini bathing suits w/a gun. Get a life and stop trying to tear people down. All that are spewing this vile really need to examine themselves. It's the epitome of evil...

People (and I mean Starhawk) are really getting carried away on these emotional rants.
There is no substance here at all-

Palin did not say God is on her side.

I don't like Palin- but I do like facts, honesty, and fairness in evaluating the impact of a potential leaders faith on policy.

And she just did not say that.

I find extreme behavior distasteful, and while I philisophically agree with the basic tenet of fostering peace- hyperbole only makes cartoons out of real issues.

And the Republican accusation that, in this post, Starhawk is really attacking Trig, will come in five....four....three....two....

Well, my God and Goddess, the Lord & Lady, were talking to me on this subject, and they had a few things to say: "We gave you this land, made it rich and fertile. We gave you the sun and the wind, and they'll do just as good a job of powering your cars and houses as that oil stuff, plus nobody has to do any drilling.

We're actually on *everybody's* side, but we'd really like Sarah Palin to know that we did not give the noble polar bear to the world just so she could get a stuffed one to use as a couch decoration, and it would be nice if she'd give more of a thought to respecting our beautiful creatures that we've put on this earth.

Lastly, we'd like everybody to know, we gave each and every one of you a conscience--please remember to go out and vote with it in November."

That's just what they were saying to me recently.

Arminius the Howler,

And here we thought JJ was the only unbalanced one. A Christian werewolf are you now??? A bit of an oxymoron there!!!

We contacted the local voodoo doctor. He has a cure. Be ready, Be ready!!!!

Please. coldhearteds, else ye will be destroyed in less than 3 years!!

I also saw JJ's website, and I also thought it was scary. I wrote a long letter of warning to the WaPo about him, and suggested they might get the police involved in tracking him down and getting him to stop spamming this site.

I disucssed the VA-Tech shooter, and how eveyone knew that something was wrong with him, but everyone backed away from doing anything, and look at the result. (I was trying to guilt them into doing something).

Anyway, I did not actually explore the website in much depth, but I could see that this JJ person seems threatening and dangerous.

I always thought GOD would not really want us to fight. Isn't it true? REbulicans should stop using God's name to win election or brain wash people because then it will be same as...

Hello, CCNL, you stupid bigot,

Yes, you hear a werewolf howling. A Christian werewolf. Me. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

The covens have met led by their priestesses (Wiccan priests were not invited) and a spell has been cast on Sarah Palin and now all is well under the full Moon.

Is that a werewolf howling??

Hi, Gaby,

Man, I had never heard of this true bastard Theriault before. He would have been right at home in the Waffen SS. This is a real insight, and increases my worries. Thanks for the info.

Arminius

To assume that you know the will of any god completely as to specific political issue like a pipeline is to be pomous and overreaching in your spiritual life.

When George Bush Sr made the same garbage comments of God supposedly being on our side during Desert Storm, I thought to myself, doesn't God like the children in Iraq.

I know realize that the Goddess loves all children, regardless of politcal affiliation.

So therefore, it infuriates me when people turn the mundane into the sacred for their own political gain.

People like that, don't belong in public office. So why do we keep voting for them?

Thanks, Arminius!

I can't believe he actually got the site up and running! I was well aware that this philosophy was created in prison. As far as I know JJ and Theriault were once incarcerated at the same time. I did quite a bit of background checking way back when.

I only gave the site a cursery review, I'll look into more when I have time.

Athena,

Put in a good word from this Christian. Hunting anything from a plane is simply power-mad, dominionist slaughter. I am all for sensible hunting, but this is madness. I have two nephews who hunt deer in Tennessee - their respect for deer approaches reverence.

Arminius

Hi, Gaby,

Here is the info:

The long, offensive posts here was inflicted by someone known as JJ. Those are his initials, because his name triggers an automatic block. But he has learned to get by this. If you want to know how sick he is, go to his web site. Note that I have spelled his name BACKWARDS between the two dots. Reverse the spelling to get it to work.

www.zvezoj.us

If you want to find out about his 'religion', created in prison and probably white supremacist, go here:

http://www.insideprison.com/prison_gang_profile_CONS.asp

Very good essay once again, Starhawk! However, I had expected somthing a little stronger worded. I strongly mislike Ms. Palin. After watching her at the republican convention I had a definite feeling that something is really off with her. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I really thiink she would be the country's worst mistake ever!

Arminius,

You wrote on a different blog that you stumbled onto JJ's website. Please tell me more!

Thanks, Arminius and Starhawk.

It may interest you that several Pagans from around the country are going to work with the spirits of Wolf, Bear, and Moose to cut through the lies and negativity about the campaign, and let the truth come forth. Since Gov. Palin allowed hunting of wolves and bears from helicopters, as well as hunts moose, we thought that it would be appropriate to call on these Power Animals for healing and truth-telling.

Blessed be!

The clouds are kind of puffy here.
“Sometimes you have to be silent to be heard”
Like a rock, love can be quiet. That's peace.

We see a new side of Starhawk here, a Wiccan priestess on steroids. Quite a polemic. I agree with much here, despite my Christianity - or maybe because of it.

'God is on our side' - utter BS. To paraphrase Lincoln, "I pray that I am on God's side". Or gods? Or simply morality?

Yes, all 'believe' in something, even W C Fields - "I believe I'll have another drink." Even non-believers have some kind of mental structure which they use to judge things. So we all must, as Starhawk so wisely says, filter our thoughts and statements to eliminate, if possible, our bias. As we all know (most of us, anyway...) this ain't easy. To some poor benighted souls, alas!, this concept appears never to have entered their clouded thoughts.

I will NEVER vote for, or support, any leader who does not respect our Constitution. I will willingly fight anyone who dares to dismantle the first amendment in any way.

Christian I am, but, as Jefferson said, if my neighbor believes in 20 gods or none, it neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket. He knew something about tolerance. A pity such a high percentage of our population, ensnared by their rules, cannot grasp this.