Sarah Palin, Pentecostals, Keith Olbermann and God's Will

A Great President and Vice-President

"Truman, whose demeanor was very different from that of the patrician Roosevelt, was a folksy, unassuming president. He popularized such phrases as "The buck stops here" and "If you can't stand the heat, you better get out of the kitchen."[1] He overcame the low expectations of many political observers who compared him unfavorably with his highly regarded predecessor.

At one point in his second term, near the end of the Korean War, Truman's public opinion ratings reached the lowest point yet recorded for any United States president until George W. Bush. Despite negative public opinion during his term in office, popular and scholarly assessments of his presidency became more positive after his retirement from politics and the publication of his memoirs. U.S. scholars today rank him among the top ten best presidents. Truman's legendary upset victory in 1948 over Thomas E. Dewey is routinely invoked by underdog presidential candidates."

from Wikipedia

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Hello F.A.G.I.T.S: please Answer, a simple Yea or Nay?? not between!

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Answer Pleazea!

MARRiAGE is sacred , between a real Mavorite (Mr) & a Real Sporade (Ms), never between Mr & Mr..!

Yes or No?????????????????????????????? Yea or Nay????????????? DA or Nyet????

Earl C,

"It saddens me to see "Christians" who do not seem to have any scruples when they tell lies (bear false witness) and defame their brothers and sisters in Christ. The issues in our society are too important to reduce any political campaign to lies and slander. I ask, "what would Jesus do?""

I'd say that you have a pretty good grasp on what Christianity is all about, and on what Jesus really taught. It is always nice to find someone like you here. Walk the Walk is right, but it ain't easy!

I too am frightened by the "Who would Jesus Bomb?" crowd, especially one running for the VP slot.

Arminius

Furthermore, I doubt anyone can look me in the eye and tell me that they can infallibly interpret the Book of Revelations.

Ipanema:

I think we understand each other a little better now. In my opinion, the first Christian politicians were Emperor Constantine and the Councils of Nice. ................

Sorry for the double post, I forgot to add my name and misspelled yours.

Panama:

I think we understand each other a little better now. In my opinion, the first Christian politicians were Emperor Constantine and the Councils of Nice. These people choose which of the many stories to include in the Bible and basically set up the tenants of Christianity, as they saw fit. I am sure that the politics of the time, for better or worse, played a heavy role in their decisions. This is important, because so many people are using the Bible as an infallible and literal guide in their religious lives. And this presents a problem to me. Especially when people start trying to interpret Revelations, which is heavily based on the symbolism of "visions" and is ripe for manipulation of it's interpretations to the masses. So to have End Timers in power that base most of the End Times on Revelations as it is interpretated for them, is frightening to me. Especially if they have their finger close to the Red Button and would love nothing more than to usher in the return of their Savior.

And that is why the religious mentality of our leaders is important to determine, or so help us God.

Rick states:
"This saying going around the Dem circles that “Jesus was a community organizer and Pontius Pilate was a governor” tells us something about Obamaites. This saying clearly comes from a Black Liberation Theology viewpoint where Jesus is not divine, nor is he a savior, but rather he is a revolutionary, a community organizer, if you will. Couple this with a reference to the Governor Pontius Pilate (representing the white oppressor) and there you have BLT in a nutshell. It’s class warfare where blacks are the victims and whitey is the oppressor. This is the worldview you get when you vote for Obama. There is no separation of church and state required here because Jesus is a community organizer, not the Son of God."

To state “Jesus was a community organizer and Pontius Pilate was a governor,” has no meaning other than what is stated. The attemmpt by some to demean the work of "community organizers" and to elevate the status of some "governors" was the only possible meaning here. To inject Black Liberation Theology into the conversation is to inject a level of bias that is neither intended nor relevant.

Other than a young teacher rabbi and intinerant preacher, most of us know that Jesus is indeed the son of the living God. However, he did minister to the many who government had forgotten and even brutalized. It must have been an awesome sight to see the many who made their way to see this man called Jesus. Jesus' message was one of hope to the multitudes, even as he fed the 4000 and the 5000.

I imagine that Barack's message to the community in which he worked for a salary of $12,000 was also a message of hope. I do not suggest that Barack is a Messiah, as some of the people like to jump on such comparisons. However,all who claim Jesus as Lord and Savior have been called to minister in His name. It is sad to see professing Christians who do not subscribe to this basic task of the Christian walk. Politics is not an excuse for leaving Christ at the door. It there is a place for practicing the principles of Christ, it is in politics. These principles are (not inclusive): The Golden Rule, telling the truth, practicing Christian love, and doing good deeds.

It saddens me to see "Christians" who do not seem to have any scruples when they tell lies (bear false witness) and defame their brothers and sisters in Christ. The issues in our society are too important to reduce any political campaign to lies and slander. I ask, "what would Jesus do?" I also ask, "Is Jesus proud of me today?" Humility, honesty, and the servant spirit are virtues that should be respected, especially by fellow Christians.

Ipanema, You may need some help with some of your names, and amy I add a few more?

You meant James Dobson, not William Dobson. James Dobson has lost it in my humble opinion. His focus on the family message has now become hostage to his political message ("rants"). Consequently he has lost a vast part of his potential audience, an audience that needs some of the things that he teaches about the family. When will these guys ever learn?

I would add Pat Robertson, also. Pat Robertson is the one who tried to run for President in 1988 and also asked my church if it were possible for him to be "unordained" as a minister of God. I guess that politics was such a bad place for Christian ministers to be that he thought that he should leave his ordination at the church door. Our feeling was that "once ordained, always ordained." Of course Pat's pronouncements on the 700 Club and elsewhere are legendary.

With respect to Billy Graham, he has preached the gospel message in truth and practice. He has communicated with all Presidents. Even though he has a slight lean to the political right, I think that he has truly been a friend to all who have called upon him for advice and spiritual guidance. Billy has been one of the true servants of a loving and just God. His passing will be a loss to America.

I saw John Hagee on TV some years ago and thought, "Wow, this guy really preaches the Word." Like so many of the ministers who have aligned themselves with the politics of the right wing, his message has been altered. It is sad to see great preachers teaching the word of God through a political prism.

I believe that Rick Warren and Joel Osteen (I added Joel) are trying to remain politically neutral. For both, it may be difficult because of their congregations. However, I have not heard either suggest anything politcal from their pulpits. One can teach about abortion and homosexuality from the Bible without making it a political rally. As a Christian with a moderate to left-leaning political bent, I understand these things and the Word being preached is not offensive.

Now we have a candidate for political office that says it was God's will that we have our war in Iraq. Now, this is scary.

Keith Oldermann's comments are understood and well taken. Sarah Palin's adjustment in some of the pronouncements that she made from the pulpit in her church should be seen for what they are. She says one thing in church and then something else in the political arena. When she says that fighting in Iraq is God's will, then she presumes to know God's will. This is a fascinating aspect of Palin's pshychology. If word choice is as important as McCain states in the debunked claim that Obama called Palin a pig, then Palin's choice of words should also be viewed as well-crafted and thought out. As a Christian, it bothers me when anyone, especially a politician, claims to know the will of God with respect to certain policy and governance. Mr. Lincoln's recently oft quoted statement should be a reminder to us all about the importance of this issue.

Remember, it was not too long ago that Bush said that he went to a "higher authority (or father)" to get his instructions when asked if he talked to his father (Bush -41). It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out the meaning of this statement.

Roy, I'm delusional as Bush? Really, how?

It's funny that you really didn't address at all the points I made. You say some nonsense about "Jesuslandia" and imply the utterly nonsensical theocracy stuff. The majority of my points had nothing to do at all with anything Christian or religious. But, blubbering about "charlatans" and "baptismal pools" is about all you can handle.

Well, it's not like I expected an intelligent exchange anyway.

Get ready to lose in November. Oh, yeah, McCain & Palin are gonna set up a theocracy! You better run for the hills, Roy!

A Great President and Vice-President

"Truman, whose demeanor was very different from that of the patrician Roosevelt, was a folksy, unassuming president. He popularized such phrases as "The buck stops here" and "If you can't stand the heat, you better get out of the kitchen."[1] He overcame the low expectations of many political observers who compared him unfavorably with his highly regarded predecessor.

At one point in his second term, near the end of the Korean War, Truman's public opinion ratings reached the lowest point yet recorded for any United States president until George W. Bush. Despite negative public opinion during his term in office, popular and scholarly assessments of his presidency became more positive after his retirement from politics and the publication of his memoirs. U.S. scholars today rank him among the top ten best presidents. Truman's legendary upset victory in 1948 over Thomas E. Dewey is routinely invoked by underdog presidential candidates."

from Wikipedia

yaaaawn

Enough,

I cannot find fault with your latest posting, as I agree that many church leaders are basically politicians, not spiritual leaders. I also abhor the Rick Warrens, the ohn Hagees, the Jerry Falwells and the William Dobsons of this world! Heck, I don't even like Billy Graham!

Ipanema:

No, I am not catholic at all. If I apply any label to myself, it is a person that is only interested in the truth (such as it is), and in doing so I have to wade through so much BS that religons have dealt out. I don't think anyone has the right to stand between me and the Creator (God). Neither the Pope or any Born-again Christian leader. The born-again leader, who convinces their people that their relationship is between them and Christ, when in reality that relationship is established and defined based solely on a story that the congregation is taught which is far from original and is based on a synthesis of multiple religious myths and allegorical stories which they take to be the literal truth. And they are so taken by this story, that they often loose sight of the good morals that the hero of the story tried to convey and instead consider themselves as choosen ones of the Creator and everyone else be damned.

I hope that clarifies my position for you.

Alex said, "I do NOT appreciate you referring to me as a 'liar'."

Then don't tell lies.

Spiderman 2,

Wonderful of you to attribute words to me that I did not say. To paraphrase what I did say, when one can't defend indefensible religious views, resort then to claiming that those who criticize religion are not competent to do so. I said no more, so ingenious of you to claim I said, ". . . all solutions are wrong or all religions are wrong . . "

It is not communist states, headed by gods on earth, that have the values I hold, but instead the America as envisioned by Thomas Jefferson and other like-minded founders of our country. A nation based on secular values common to all, regardless of religious conviction, or lack thereof.

Enough,

You must be a Roman Catholic by the way you talk. You seem to have a need to have a person (the idiotic Pope) between you and Christ. I am a Christian but don't believe anyone stands between me and Christ. I trust no church leader (as they are all fallible) and my relatinship and allegience is strictly to Christ. I guess this cannot make any sense to someone brainwashed by centuries of dogma by an apostate church, which falsely declares itself to be the only true church.

Spiderman 2,

Wonderful of you to attribute words to me that I did not say. To paraphrase what I did say, when one can't defend indefensible religious views, resort then to claiming that those who criticize religion are not competent to do so. I said no more, so ingenious of you to claim I said, ". . . all solutions are wrong or all religions are wrong . . "

It is not communist states, headed by gods on earth, that have the values I hold, but instead the America as envisioned by Thomas Jefferson and other like-minded founders of our country. A nation based on secular values common to all, regardless of religious conviction, or lack thereof.

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion..."

So leave the constitution alone and don't ammend it for the glory of your god, the devil by legalizing abortion and gay marriage.

Harveyh5, it is true that there are many false religions in the same way that there are many false solutions to solve a problem.

But to say that all solutions are wrong or all religions are wrong is the ultimate stupidity.

Alaskans are very satisfied with Palin's performance because of her Christian values and almost always Christian values make a place great.

Go to communist godless states and see the values you hold being practice there. They even fence whole cities so nobody can escape.

The first ten words of the Bill of Rights:

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion..."

Nuff said.

Reverend Rodriguez reverts to the last line of religious self defense. "Keith Olbermann, you stick to what you know and leave the religious interpretation to those with the "expert" knowledge of the subject. Yes, the defense of last resort - when there's no other way to defend, or logically explain, religious lunacy.

This saying going around the Dem circles that “Jesus was a community organizer and Pontius Pilate was a governor” tells us something about Obamaites. This saying clearly comes from a Black Liberation Theology viewpoint where Jesus is not divine, nor is he a savior, but rather he is a revolutionary, a community organizer, if you will. Couple this with a reference to the Governor Pontius Pilate (representing the white oppressor) and there you have BLT in a nutshell. It’s class warfare where blacks are the victims and whitey is the oppressor. This is the worldview you get when you vote for Obama. There is no separation of church and state required here because Jesus is a community organizer, not the Son of God.

fr norvel:

>...I asked myself if I want to live in country with liars like that poster.

My answer? Yes.

But, there are days I am not happy about living with liars

I do NOT appreciate you referring to me as a "liar". Grow UP and get a life. palin wants to deny GLBT couples basic and human rights, AND she wanted to ban books but thankfully the librarian REFUSED to do so.

As an atheist who enjoys reading the posts in the "On Faith" column, I think I know what the bible means by "gnashing of teeth". These christians seem to be a pretty angry lot.

Simple Observer: "How do you explain Tillman?"

He was offed by his own people at the first opportunity because he did not fit the aggressive profile demanded by some captain or major or whatever. He was a liability that had to be eliminated. He was a celebrity that had too much negative authority. Those who killed him are the kind of people that Palin will support because they are doing God's will.

This is the express reason the fore-fathers wanted separation of Church and State..

Ken,

If you have any proof at all from your private and graduate studies that the Bible was revealed to the prophets word by word or was "written by God" directly, I would love to hear it, and I promise to view it objectively.

The Sarah Palin Chronicles

Mother of five children from a small Alaskan town must protect her youngest Downs syndrome child, who will save the world of the future for Christ, from elimination by deranged time-travelling atheists.

Sarah Palin was humbly praying that what she was planning would be God's will. She was not proclaiming that it was already revealed to her by some direct pipeline. As Abraham Lincoln famously observed, it is infinitely more important to be on God's side than to claim Him for yours. That everone is sounding off without first knowing what she said and clearly meant suggests bad faith on the part of the posters.

"You should read what the historians have to say about the history of the Bible..."

Or what I have written about it, based on years of private and graduate study. Your appeal to the authority of your cherry-picked congenial "experts" doesn't carry much weight.

" am catholic woman, mother, and a doctor who believes that abortion is a morally flawed choice, but that it should be the woman's choice because it is her body."

The baby being aborted is not the mother's body. The baby developing within the womb is a living human being that is genetically distinct from the mother. No he or she is not independent nor does he or she yet breathe. But if that disqualifies a human from protection I hope I'm never tethered to a respirator when you drop by.

"His self-described "too flip" answer about it "being above his pay grade" was to the question of when a baby gains human rights."

That was the question Rick Warren asked, but Obama began answering another unasked one, "when does life begin?" It is a biological verity that a developing child in the womb is alive, human and genetically distinct.

"If we look back in history we find that Jesus Christ was a community organizer."

We find no such thing. And Obama is not Jesus.

Keith Olbermann speaks for a lot of us who think this kind of religious fundamentalism is over the top and should not be part of our political system.

If Palin believes this kind of dogma, fine, as long as she doesn't bring her brand of religion into the sphere of government.

We don't need some woman accusing other countries she might consider to be on the side of "evil" to be in line for destruction. This is scary.

I say, for the fundies who believe in this stuff, go ahead, believe whatever you want to believe, just leave the running of our government out of your brand of religion

Ipanema:

Your church leaders have no more authority than historians or the Pope (I would venture less), but you obviously take their interpretations (that's right, the Bible can be interpretated many different ways)as the only truth.

But believe what you will.

Imagine if, in 1960, candidate John F. Kennedy had invoked his Catholicism to speak about about the Soviet threat. The Protestant-dominated GOP surely would have had an aneurism. By wearing her religious beliefs on her sleeve, Palin has made herself fair game for criticism by everyone from Keith Olbermann to Rev. Barry Lynn. And please bear in mind that the religious right didn't buy the Republican Party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale.

After I read these words posted below:

"Are you aware that a so-called person with 'godly character' attempted to BAN books from the public library, and then backpedalled on it, saying the letter was 'just a test'? You want a VP who referred to Senator Obama as Sambo? You want a VP who wants to DENY same-sex couples basic human and civil rights?"

I asked myself if I want to live in country with liars like that poster.

My answer? Yes.

But, there are days I am not happy about living with liars.

Are all these anti-religious posters really thinking through their positions?

It seems they are not, what with all the hand-wringing they do over Sarah Palin's faith.

Obama looks interviewers straight in the eye and says Jesus is his Lord and Saviour ... hardly the 'enlightened' atheistic view that is advocated by many of these posters.

I suppose that is because they do not take this statement of his very seriously. I wonder if I should follow their lead and doubt his Christian faith, or, if THEY should treat him with the same disdain that they do Governor Palin.

fr spiderman2:

>...If Americans want to be happy, they should choose a leader who has a godly character. Alaskans are very satisfied with Palin's performance. Why does the liberal left hate her? It's because they are destined to be miserable.

Are you aware that a so-called person with "godly character" attempted to BAN books from the public library, and then backpedalled on it, saying the letter was "just a test"? You want a VP who referred to Senator Obama as Sambo? You want a VP who wants to DENY same-sex couples basic human and civil rights?

Fine, then vote for little sarah. Me? I don't want THAT woman anywhere NEAR the White House unless she's part of a group paid tour.

Historians have no more authority than the Pope, who is a false prophet!

Read Isaiah 28:9-13.

I wonder if Palin believes that the terrorist attacks on 9/11 were also the will of God.

Robert B.

If your ideas of waterboarding is simply "pouring water over a murderous terrorists simply to trick him psychologically into thinking he's drowning? No physical harm is done." you are as delusional as Bush.

As for your other pontifications, enjoy your twisted Jesuslandia. I moved away from it long ago and won't return until joe-six-pack wakes up and realizes that charlatans neochristians like you are destroying what used to be a free America.

Go soak your head in baptismal pool and cherry-pick Levititcus (except verse 19:33, of course). Poor Jesus.

Ipanema:

If you believe that the Bible was either revealed to the prophets (word by word) or "written by God", it is you that are displaying your ignorance of the history of the Bible. The Bible is a written collection of various versions of the oral stories of Jesus. And this is an very oversimplification of the history of the Bible. You should read what the historians have to say about the history of the Bible, not what you have been spoon fed in your place of worship.

Ipanema:

If you believe that the Bible was either revealed to the prophets (word by word) or "written by God", it is you that are displaying your ignorance of the history of the Bible. The Bible is a written collection of various versions of the oral stories of Jesus. And this is an very oversimplification of the history of the Bible. You should read what the historians have to say about the history of the Bible, not what you have been spoon fed in your place of worship.

LOVEVIRGINIA:

You are way off base about soldiers. I'm no war monger. I've objected to the war in Iraq since before Bush started it, but your comments about the commitment of these soldiers is just plain wrong. How do you explain Tillman? He could have made millions playing football, but gave it up to serve (and die for) his country. How do you explain the officers who have degrees? They could just as well get out and make many times more than they are making, but they choose to serve. How do you explain the guys who reenlist despite the knowledge that they would be going back in harms way? Do you think the low wages, poor living conditions and extended separations from family represents anything besides a true commitment to an Ideal?

You don't have to share that Ideal, or even believe in it, but to dismiss it in that manner is disrespectful to the sacrifices they make every day, and just plain wrong. Save your disrespect for the idiot that placed them there in Iraq.

Timinpa,

Unfortnately you did read what I wrote. I said "attributed to Apostle John." As for using Roman Catholic sources, I find them discredited and without merit! After all they are an apostate church, who go out of their way to violate the commandments in the Bible with their own dogmas, from the rear end of Popes!!!!

Speaking in tongues isn't necessarily an eschatological issue, as is suggested in paragraph 4. Check 1 Cor. 14 (whole chapter).

Ipanema, Ipanema, Ipanema,

"Columbia Encyclopedia: Revelation
or Apocalypse (əpŏk'əlĭps) , the last book of the New Testament. It was written c.A.D. 95 on Patmos Island off the coast of Asia Minor by an exile named John, in the wake of local persecution by the Emperor Domitian (A.D. 81–96). Tradition has identified John with the disciple St. John, but many scholars deny such authorship. They also disagree as to whether this book has common authorship with the Gospel or with First, Second, and Third John. The book is an apocalypse, comprising visions of victory over evil and persecution and of the triumph of God and the martyrs. Its structure is deliberate, depending heavily on patterns of sevens. It consists of letters counseling and warning seven churches in Asia Minor; the opening of the seven seals on the scroll in the hand of God, four revealing the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse; the blowing of seven trumpets by angels before God's throne; the seven visions, including a seven-headed dragon (Satan) and the rising from the sea of the Beast, related to the Emperor Nero (persecutor of Christians in Rome after the great fire of A.D. 64), whose name is numerically equivalent to 666; the seven plagues; the seven-headed harlot named Babylon, representing the Roman Empire; and visions of heaven, the defeat of Satan, the judgment, the millennial reign of Christ, and the New Jerusalem. Constant allusion occurs to earlier scriptural prophecies, such as Ezekiel, Daniel, and Isaiah. One immediate goal of Revelation was to encourage persecuted Christians; absolute assurance of interpretation stops there. Every period of Christian history has produced variant explanations of the book's mysteries. See apocalypse.
Bibliography

See studies by G. E. Ladd (1972), D. H. Lawrence (1972), G. B. Caird (1980), L. Morris (1987), A. Y. Collins (1988), J. P. M. Sweet (1990), R. Wall (1991), and J. Kirsch (2006"

With respect to the author(s) of the NT, it definitely was not God as God would not have made so many different versions of the same story or left out important elements. He/She would only have needed one book not four books and 13 epistles.

See Father Raymond Brown's epic reference book, 878 pages, An Introduction to the New Testament, for a review of who the authors of the NT were. Said book has been approved by the Catholic Church as being "gospel" quality.

America's been around for over 400 years, and it is my hope and belief that we'll be around for at least another 400 years. I don't about the rest of you, but I sure don't want the country run by the "end times" or "Left Behind" crowd who think the world is going to end next month, or only 5 years from now. Sorry gang, but somebody who doesn't have any confidence in us being around within our lifetimes sure doesn't belong in the government

It always amazes me how Christian fundamentalists try to portray Muslim fundamentalisms as savages plotting in a cold dark cave. They're BOTH in there, brooding over their doubts, which they don't dare reveal to non-believers, that the word really is the WORD, that God really does care or is even paying attention or hasn't moved on to another solar system with more promise. That is what fuels both camps - primal doubt that is manifest in earthly self-righteousness, piety, rage and, ultimately, pathos.

Cordelia:

I am obviously not suggesting that anyone running for (V)P is anywhere near a biblical figure (hence the "seriously though...").

My (serious) point:
(1) People should keep religion out of politics.
(2) Even so, it seems to me that Palin's beliefs (and those of the Republican Party) certainly do not reflect the values of a compassionate Christian. A compassionate Christian would not mock community organizers (people who try to help the poor and desperate), would not advocate the death penalty, would not show an eagerness to go to war, would not be in favor of more tax cuts for the super wealthy even though income inequality has grown to proportions not seen since the 1920's.
And if she is not a compassionate Christian, then she is not a real Christian.

Corey,

Have you ever read the Bible? You show ignorace in two counts:

1) The Book of Revelation is not attributed to Apostle Paul but to the Apostle John.

2) The Bible was revealed to the Prophets and the Apostles by God. It was not Paul who wrote Romans, Ephesians, Colossians, 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, 1st and 2 nd Corinthinas, 1st and 2nd Timothy,Pilippians and Titus, but God himself. Carefully read Jeremiah 36:1-7 and 2nd Timothy 3:16 to grasp this concept, if it is not beyond you, as you may not have been given "ears to hear and eyes to see" spiritual truths.

How can you criticize something you have no understanding of? Is not this sheer ignorace?

Living responsisibly and treating others as one wish to be treated. Dose one have to sit through two hours of religiousindoctrination/brainwashing on Sunday mornings to get that? Some ministers must think we are all retarded. It's about the money. The larger the congregation the larger the pay check.

Thank you so much for your well measured and considered thoughts.

I have been so troubled by what you address and have a very real fear that someone like Gov. Palin will use her believed direct line to God to make decisions that effect and affect me and America. And her belief that her faith and her God is the ONLY one seems to fly in the face of freedom of religion. (Perhaps there is no freedom of religion.) I also worry that if I do not demonstrate the proper faith or Christian beliefs publicly and privately I will be singled out and harmed for my faith or lack of faith as defined by our government. For the record I am a christian.

Robert B said:"It is people like McCain and the sons of McCain & Palin that secure our freedoms, you fool. We are richly blessed, not cursed."

I'd like to point out that mi my liberal family of democrats my brother is a Vietnam vet, my 2 nephews are vets (1 just back from Iraq and still active military), many of my cousins are vets, as are many of our friends. McCain and Palin aren't the only people who contribute to the strength and secure freedom in this country.

On the other hand, we're also not the ones who started an unnecessary war on Iraq instead of pursuing the man who attacked us. If anyone valued our soldiers and their sacrifices it was the liberals and democrats. We don't believe in sending soldiers to war without a damn good reason. To Bush, these men and women are just numbers- nothing more. His administration has a gag order in place so that reporters are not allowed to photograph the coffins being returned home. "To prevent disrespect," he says. but what he really wants to to prevent the American people from knowing and understanding what a hideous "Commander-in-Chief" he has been.

I'm always amazed at these fundamentalists who go in front of their congregation and say one thing but, when confronted on television, deny having said it. Jesus wrote pretty extensively about this. He does not approve.

Monty Keleen, didn't you meant to say, "the problem Paul had with the seven churches." Paul and Jesus, two different individuals. The Bible only gives us one side of the story - Paul's side. Read "Lost Chrisitanities: The Battle for Scriptures We Never Knew, by Bart Ehrman, PhD -Cahirman of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina.

I grew up in a Pentecostal church and, for years (about 30) afterward, around non-demoninational charismatics who seem to be like and to share Palin's religious and political views. I am terrified at the prospect of her in charge. Those who see the world through the (misguided) lens of such zealotry cannot be trusted to run a democracy. The taliban produces such rulers.

There is room for religion and God in politics. Sarah Palin did not put this on for her recent candidacy. She was like this in Wasilla, Juneau and now the US.

Millions of Americans can relate to her as they live their lives that includes trying to worship and have respect for God.

And why should she take a back seat to three senators? What the heck does a senator do that shows administrative skills and judgment? Mostly senators just talk...and talk...and talk, and raise money. John McCain had a life prior to his life as a Senator, but Barack Obama has had little experience in the world in which we live.

Constantine, lend the battling bishops your ear. Here is an interesting book to read, "When Jesus Became God: The Struggle To Define Christianity In the Last Days of Rome." It has been said, "Those who do not learn from history will repeat it." Anyone out there read this book? Chime in. Have a good day.

If all the Christians who have called other Christians “not really a Christian” were to vanish, there’d be no Christians left.

Shall I speak now as a white man, living in a culture that dispenses credibility based on ethnic affiliations? I will pass, and speak unpretentiously as an American, a dying breed. When Barack was at the Holy Wall in Jerusalem, did he or did he not leave a written prayer asking that he might to 'God's will'. Did Latino Christians have cause to become instant professors on the suitability and appropriateness of timing with respect to our relationship with God? I do not recall that. Sarah Palin has crashed the party and caused many latent presumptions of the 'place of women' in our society to surface. Now the good Latino pastor has let us know what Sarah's place is and when she should or should not invoke God. Our country grows more ridiculous each day.

This is not a chicken-and-egg scenario. God speak was not factored into the news media by people like Olberman. God speak was introduced into politics by people like Palin. Whether he's right or wrong, he can follow her words wherever they lead him. It's all farce and it will go on indefinitely until we find better political leaders. Obviously, the current crop can't do the job without their mystical side-kicks.

And also..am i the only one to find this Palin woman tacky?

Say what you want about Obama and Biden.

Biden has more credibility with international leaders than perhaps any other current American leader other than Bill Clinton and Jesse Jackson, and former secs Henry Kissenger and Brezinksi.

Obama may be flaky, but he has a brain, ambition and a sense of duty.

Palin:

Talks about the sanctity of life and shoots moose for fun.

Did she really name a real estate venture "red neck"

Trots out her 17 year old daughter - and the unfortunate guy who thought it would be cool to drill the governer's kid - onto a national stage as an example of family?

Has her son sworn in on 9-11...we'll see how close he gets to the front.

She would be much better served reading Machiavelli. One who is manipulating popular sentiments should not be so blatant.

Oh..and btw...i am sick and tired of hearing about "defending america" and yadda yadda yadda. If our Republican presidents since 1980 (except for G HW Bush) had shown more intelligence and less dogmatism it wouldnt be necessary.

And yes I admire military soldiers. But I also admire baseball players. As does every other 8 year old boy. Then i grew up. Soldiers are PAID in the US. They work for MONEY. Take away their pay and see how many still show that same "commitment to defending our freedom." OR, perhaps lets try this...offer an 18 year old african american or mexican american OR poor white american male (the three largest pools for military recruiting) either a job paying $30,000 plus a year OR a half-scholarship to a college, and then give them a choice of either or the military and see which one they take.

This comment is for Rodriquez,
I am a Christian and I have a strong faith but you are wrong to knock Keith Olbermann's comments about Sarah Palin. She belongs to a church that speaks in tongues which is almost as deceiving and stupid as finding a so called bible in New York state then starting a religion based on that and then destroying the bible once the followers are in the fold.

Speaking in tongues and speaking on behalf of Jesus/God to bless us with an oil pipeline is just plain demagoguery you moral relativist yourself. The job of the media is to point out this form of demagoguery.
Keith lacks no credibility at all and he call these lost sheep what they are...lost sheep full of hate for gays and those not like them. Perhaps his real mistake is in not calling out these so-called Christians for not having love and forgiveness in their heart.
Amen.

No matter how refined his vocabulary or polished his phrasing, the author fails to mask the essential nature of Palin's problem and the validity of Olberman's skepticism: pentecostal and evangelical christianity may be growing faster than any religion on earth, but the rituals and dogma of these faiths are inherently irrational and, moreover, at odds with the intellectual and philosophical approach the "founders", in particular Madison, felt were necessary in an executive.

Lacking ministerial preparation or a formal religious education has certainly not proven to be an obstacle for many practitioners of these faiths, so I fail to see why Mr. (I do not use the term Rev.) Rodriguez argues that Sarah Palin should not be interpreting "god's will." The last time I checked, if there was a deity whose existed beyond the realm of human imagination, I had no idea what his will was. My own study of theology at a first-rate, "us news top-10" undergraduate university notwithstanding. Personally, i would be much more comfortable knowing that Mrs. Palin was using practical politics to pander to the religious elements in Alaskan culture - that I can understand.

Anti-religious bias is a reality. We do not live in a theocracy, nor does our constitution define a national religion. I personally feel that Sarah Palin, were she to truly believe the things she says regarding faith, should not be considered for the presidency. Our current president has made similar statements, and his record is worse than even Warren Harding. Religious values, when truly believed rather than merely given lip service, cloud one's judgement and minimize pragmatism. Can a woman who may have actually "spoken in tongues" after the age of 25 (when the frontal lobe of an adult human is fully developed and independent judgement reaches a zenith) actually be trusted with making significant economic and military decisions? If so, then we have come no further as a species than we had when Rome was under Caligula and Nero. Barack Obama, Joe Biden, and John McCain are paying the traditional American lip service to the religious voters - good for them. But Palin scares me - she actually believes this nonsense. And that is what it is - nonsense. The great thing about religion for religious leaders is that the burden of proof is so easy to meet - it is harder to get a loan than to claim to speak for God.

It's unfortunate when people lie in the name of God.

kids, kids !!!!:
I have news!!

GOD DOES NOT EXIST!

I am catholic woman, mother, and a doctor who believes that abortion is a morally flawed choice, but that it should be the woman's choice because it is her body. It can't be considered murder because a fetus can't live on its own and is sustained through its mothers life. I am prochoice & prolife and I have no problem with the positions of Obama/Biden because morality should not be legislated unless it violates the rights on another living, breathing human being. Legally giving the fetus this right from conception weighs the rights of a non-breathing being (incapable of independent life) over those of the mother who carries. Pastors and priests can and should discourage irresponsible sex while supporting women who have unwanted pregnancy so that these women can make the moral choice to protect the life within until it becomes an independent. God gave us free will. How we use this free will is up to us.

If you like abortion, you'll positively loooove Obama!

Partial Birth Botched-Abortion, anyone?

With all due respect Mr. Rodriguez, Senator Obama did not state he "didn't have a clue about when life begins". His self-described "too flip" answer about it "being above his pay grade" was to the question of when a baby gains human rights. Answers to these questions are not settled with a McCain-esque "bumper sticker" sound bite.

"Wasn't Jesus a community organizer and Pontius Pilatus a governor? I wonder who God would vote for in this election..."

This line is going to backfire on you and the Democrats who are using it, Tom. Don't be comparing candidates to biblical greats, because the one who gets compared to Jesus is going to alienate even moderate Christians.

The problem with religion in politics is that in most cases, those claiming to be the more conservative lean towards legalisms and forget about important elements of the faith such as compassion and love. The other issue is that, even though is important to have Christian leaders, it is imperative that they also posses the required experience and exposure needed for the job - and the republicans are using the views of the candidate to avoid the issue of experience, proven character in politics, and influence - and that is just what goes against the change that both parties claim to want. If McCain would have been ahead in the polls, he would have never picked Palin. And if his campaign of experience worked, he would have chosen someone better known from DC, and not go for the message of change with Palin, stolen from Obama. Where was this change prior to his selection of a VP? He used to think that the country was on the right track, agreed with Bush, and change was far from his proposals. This is just a game. Let's focus on the things that matter.

"She cannot speak with authority regarding theological doctrine regarding the application of God's will in governmental affairs, public policy or legislative initiatives. In all honesty, I don't know if anyone can with full certainty."

======================

You hit the nail on the head. The Pope and the Pope alone can speak with certainty about the will of God, and even he is careful not to throw it around too much.

It wasn't so long ago that slavery was "God's will"...
'Nuff said

If she would really be following her Christian faith, she would not only be against the killing of the unborn, but also agaist the killing of those who have already been born (war, death penalty,...) - and she wouldn't mock community organizers with snide remarks. This woman has no compassion.

Wasn't Jesus a community organizer and Pontius Pilatus a governor? I wonder who God would vote for in this election (if he manages to get his hands on a voter ID and does not get purged from the voter registration list by some partisan hack)...?

Seriously, though, religion has no place in this election. Values do, but religion doesn't. The future president or VP should realize that the constitution demands the separation of church and state. Mrs. Palin does not understand this. She famously said in an official interview that the founding fathers put "under God" in the pledge of allegiance for a reason. Yet, the pledge was not formulated until 100 years later (and "under God" wasn't inserted until the 1950's).

I find it truly curious that this "Conversation on Religion" is anyting but!
For Rodriguez to say, "As recent history dictates, the inclusion of God in the political arena is as American as apple pie.", indicates to me he hasn't bothered to spend much time on US Colonial history. God was very much involved with the forming of this Country and subsequent elections and legislation. Rodriquez speaks as if he is still Hispanic first and (is he a citizen?)
Palin is a member of a Non-Denominational Church. She has never spoken in tongues (cheap left-looney attempt to cast dispersion).
Her "quote" on Charlie Roses' interview left out the beginning of her speech where she says she "prays that we are following God's Will" This was edited out by Rose - as was much of her interview, to twist her comments and attempt to discredit her.
It did't work - but all the piling on of Palin is helping her cause.
Thank you!

The evangelicals have blood on their hands. They gave us George Bush in 2000 and 2004, the latter of whom lead us into a deeply immoral war with Iraq costing maiming thousands of american military lives. Yet the evangelicals galvanized their ilk at their sunday mega-church services, turning a blind eye to this belligerant dunce so as to ensure gay marriage was never allowed. Sarah Palin seems even more bellicose and incompetent (Russia/Georgia war?), but at least she will stop gay marriage and teach creationism.

Greatly amused to see how the right-wing nuts known as the neocons who now control the Republican Party are once again successful in using the big-business and big-oil controlled MSM to fool the majority of working Americans to vote for a brain-dead old man, and his bible-thumping, pro-life (at the same a supporter of teen-age sex along with birth out of wedlock), big-game hunting running-mate from Alaska.. This lady, along with Bush-McCain, believes that we are fighting a war in Iraq to promote God's will, and defeat the enemy who attacked us on 9/11 (the same old lie that Bush-Cheney regime successfully used to invade, occupy and destroy Iraq starting in 2003, and used successfully to confuse Americans to win in 2004). This line of argument based on religion is also known as the Crusade (if you are a Christian) or Jehad (if you are a muslim)..If that's what the US voting public wants is to carry on an endless crusade under McCain-Palin against the muslims mostly in mideast but also in Pakistan/Afganistan, and add another fight with Russia (led by "God less" KGB agent Putin)to make it more bloddy and costly, we deserve the punishment that will follow:economic and social upheaval not seen since the Great Depression. To paraphrase Shakespeare, time and tide wait for no nation, least of all for a people who claim to know God's will and purpose, and use that arrogant belief with superior military power to bring death and destruction around the world! India, China and Western Europe will continue on their path to greater enonomic propserity for the rest of the world not foolishly engaged in such destructive behavior.

I find it truly curious that this "Conversation on Religion" is anyting but!
For Rodriguez to say, "As recent history dictates, the inclusion of God in the political arena is as American as apple pie.", indicates to me he hasn't bothered to spend much time on US Colonial history. God was very much involved with the forming of this Country and subsequent elections and legislation. Rodriquez speaks as if he is still Hispanic first and (is he a citizen?)
Palin is a member of a Non-Denominational Church. She has never spoken in tongues (cheap left-looney attempt to cast dispersion).
Her "quote" on Charlie Roses' interview left out the beginning of her speech where she says she "prays that we are following God's Will" This was editied by Rose - as was much of her interview, to twist her comments and attempt to discredit her.
It did't work - but all the piling on of Palin is helping her cause.
Thank you!

Typical idiotic comment, WTF. It is people like McCain and the sons of McCain & Palin that secure our freedoms, you fool. We are richly blessed, not cursed.

Now, go 'hate on America' on MoveOn.org You are a real American treasure, WTF.

If God blessed America with George Bush and Dick Cheney.

And if God follows that blessing by blessing us with Mccain and Palin then I think it's pretty safe to say.

God Hates America.

We are cursed.

Monty Keeling: "To generalize all Pentecostals (Charismatics) or Evangelicals being politically alike is folly. Every Christian is Charismatic is some way. "

Yes, one mustn't generalize. There is diversity. Some listen to Rush Limbaugh, but not all. Others listen to Sean Hannity. Some prefer 700 Club. Some congregations are notoriously divided over their preferred football, basketball, or hockey teams. To bring Chevy and Ford drivers into the same sanctuary takes a lot of ecumenical initiative.

As someone from across the water (the United Kingdom) all I ask from a president, or potential one,is that they base their decisions on evidence.

I offer as an example President Bush's assertion that he looked in Putin's eyes and was able to say that he " found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy". (June 2001)

An examination of Putin's role in the conflict in Chechnya would have yielded a differnt view.

Gut feelings and faith will get you so far but it also might get a lot of people killed.

The candidates should both take the pledge; I will not seek, nor will I accept advice or direction from any religious group. Period

Spiderman2-
Happiness comes from God? Ever hear about a guy named Job?

"In other words, Palin's comments should be viewed with trepidation and caution only if Obama's comment on not having any clue regarding when Life begins speaks to a theological underpinning of moral relativism."

Perhaps your last sentence would be more accurate if you also said evangelicals should stick to religion and keep their noses out of politics. whereas Obama has a firm grasp of the Constitution and Bill of rights, and understands that Americans are a very diverse group, Palin, like you Mr. Rodriguez, does not. While you're upset over Keith Olbermann's remarks regarding religion, he remains a news commentator. The est of us are upset that someone of extreme religious views will hold a position of power in this country and like many of your brethren, be unable to separate religion from fact, or action from "rapture."

God Swill should not even get a mention when considering a politician's elevation into office. Even worse, putting evangelicals, who believe these are the "End Days", anywhere near a button that ends it all is tantamount to giving an automatic weapon to a homicidal maniac - a stupid idea of the first order. Looking at past dismal policy failures and hypocritical behaviour of these holier-than-thou elected representatives should stand as a warning to anyone who doesn't want their country run to ruination. Maybe it's got something to do with too many drugs, or, could it be something in the water?

I don't care that Palin's daughter is pregnant or that her son enlisted in the military. But why do I get the feeling that these events and the children themselves are being exploited for the campaign?

I believe she sold out her daughter to further her own political prospects. And, to arrange to have your child sworn in on 9/11 is tasteless.

I'm guessing the Republicans will look at the enlistment on such a date as symbolic of Palin's patriotism. To me, it's cheap PR.

I say this as former Navy wife and resident of NY.

Umm, we're actually electing a President, one of whose roles is commander in chief. There is a significant difference.

I can't resist. Is this an attempt to put lipstick on some tongues?

Monty Keelen:

You seem to imply that growth is everyhing. Numbers mean nothing if the Spirit of God is not at work in the Church. Please read carefully and meditate on Revelation 2 and 3 and study about the problems that Christ had with the 7 churches.

If numbers were everything, God would save the whole humanity, which the Bible clearly says is not the case, despite false interpretations of John 3:16 (hint: the key word is "believeth").

How sad that these days failed acts of free will have become "G_d's will" as Sarah Palin would lead us to believe as much as the marketmakers would want us to believe that the enormous rise in commodities prices are the result of the market forces alone. One has destroyed the flower of our youth and the other our pocketbooks.

Our acts of "free will" will be the issues at the Final Judgement, there is no escape from it no matter what religion you profess or where you are you will not escape this.

In the same way the creation of life is not in our hands or our will, birth and death should be left in His hands at all times, before and after birth. Where and when life begins is not for us to judge and to decide when it should end is neither.

Pity on us when we cloaked our acts as His will specially those acts that come from people who who have decided that they will not be judged in the end.

OK folks unfasten your emotional seat belts. To generalize all Pentecostals (Charismatics) or Evangelicals being politically alike is folly. Every Christian is Charismatic is some way. The word after all comes from Christ. Those who speak in tongues are no more abnormal, for the most part, than the rest of us. In a age when people are spiritually hungry it's not surprising that people would seek some of more experiential gifts from the Holy Spirit. Virtually all growth in Christianity has come from mega churches or small groups which both, in their own way, either are, or are borrowing from, the Pentecostal movement. Obama's faith has been developed under that same influnece.

The problem I have with Pentecostals is that they are trying to re-create the Book of Acts about two-thousand years after the Bible was completed. They totally ignore Revelation 22:18-19, which clearly instructs us that the Bible, the Word of God, cannot be added to or detracted from. If some freaky Pentecostal is having a vision, speaking in tongues and doing signs and wonders, then he/she is receiving revelation from Satan, not Christ (remember what Christ said about false prophets coming with signs and wonders). Otherwise, the Bible is imperfect and incomplete and needs suplementing by these out-of-their minds Pentecostals. Nowadays God speaks only through His Word, the Bible, and the Bible alone. We must indeed pray that God gives us ears to hear and eye to see. Pentecostals would to well in carefully studying and meditating on Jeremiah 5:20-22 and Matthew 7:15, 24:11 and 24:22!

Happiness comes from God. If Americans want to be happy, they should choose a leader who has a godly character. Alaskans are very satisfied with Palin's performance.

Why does the liberal left hate her? It's because they are destined to be miserable.

Roy, Detroit has a higher murder rate than the current casualty rate for troops in Iraq. So, I presume the "war" you speak of is in the Democrat dominated urban areas of this country--the places where billions of dollars have been wasted on the "more of the same" social programs--the ones in place since the (not so) 'Great Society' of LBJ days. "Torture?" You mean pouring water over a murderous terrorists simply to trick him psychologically into thinking he's drowning? No physical harm is done. But I'm sure it harms your poor soul to think of the big bad United States hurting the feelings of a poor, innocent terror-thug.

The "big oil" you speak of is probably the same oil you put in your car. And you and your liberal peeps are the ones who vote/sue against the nuclear power industry as a source of new energy---wind, solar and hydro aint gonna get it--and if all the cars go electric, well, we'd need more power for them to plug into. Even most of your socialist heroes in Europe know this as they have gone nuclear. The "theocracy" comment is the usual nonsense from the leftist crowd. You are more than welcome to attend the church of Holy Slumber every Sunday morning and live as atheistic a life as you want. The notion that in this MTV/internet porn/President Bush & general -Christian-mocking culture is just a step away from a theocracy is laughable. Who takes that serious?

In fact, what thinking person takes any liberal serious? Roy, your entire list is absurd--"cuts is social programs and education" Are you aware of the massive increases in these areas over the past 8 years? In Education? in Prescription Drug Benefits? In AIDS funding/research?

What's "more of the same" is your liberal talking points that you are beholden to--written down by your own God of Leftist-Secularism.

Oh, and regarding "executive corruption", the last President Impeached happened to be a Democrat. I think you know his name.

The "will" of Palin's "God" is more of the same:

- war

- torture

- unbalanced Executive Branch power and corruption

- big oil

- economic destruction of the middle class for the benefit of big business and the rich

- an American neochristian theocracy

- delusional denial of global warming

- dependence of Muslim terrorist oil instead of alternative energy research and development

- cuts in social programs including health care and education

Addiction to religion is the firm symptom of mental illness.

Congress just made a law in which the secretary of defense should also be elected by the people. The Dems quickly have a candidate for that position. His name is Roger Laden. Their ticket would now list three people.

The OBAMA BIDEN LADEN ticket.

Does it sounds like Osama Bin Ladin?

Will Sarah Palin start speaking "in tongues" during some international summit or state dinner? The Republicans are still bravely leading the way to turn the White House into a tent-revival on the Potomac.

The distinction we must make when considering the thoughts of Gov Palin and Mr Obermann is that Mr Obermann is not running to be Vice President of the United States. His views, while uniformed and somewhat silly, will not effect public policy. However Gov Palin, if elected, could possibly become Commander-in-Chief and even if Sen McCain survives a full term she will still have input on public policy that will effect the entire nation.

Ditto what Fred Evil said

What's really scary is that Caribou Barbie has been governor for only two years of the 3rd least populous state in the union. A state that is smaller than 16 US CITIES in population.

She's not even allowed to talk to the media, yet she's supposed to square off against the likes of Putin? Kim Jong Il?

Hopefully she'll use the tongue we all know as English. I don't believe God will be available to translate from those spoken in her church.

Seriously, McCain is SEVENTY TWO. He has a very checkered medical history, and Bush has left us with a Supreme Court that is heavily canted to the right . The idea that this woman who tried to ban books from the library, and attends a church where folks speak in tongues, is absolutely HORRIFYING. She could end up being IN CHARGE of this country within 4 months if the right set of circumstances arose.

FOUR MONTHS.

No way, No how, No McCain, NO PALIN.

Not with the country I love, NO YOU DON'T.

--
JO{ktAn-NATiONalis of U.S.A, 2013+
--
Here are YE Holy Cosmic “TETRA-NEEDS“ on Space-Ship EARTH! Followed by the “THE TEN FiATS” Of The “NEW-SONG” ( plus 3 alternates) for a better World to LOVE & liVE in!

Note: If YE are Minus ANY one of Thses TERTA-NEEDS below, then Houston Ye Have a Problem!

^ .^. ^
FOOD
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1:F♣♣D To keep from disappearing;
2:H♦ME Abode to sleep/enjoy/protect;
3:L♥VE, someone to or have companion;
4:CL♠TH, something to wear!

IMPORTANT: Rich, Middle-class or Poor, Besides Keeping Busy that, If YE hath All these “4-Tetra-Needs“ then Ye hath No Worry’s , in the World, on this Blesseth Holy Cosmic Miraculous, & zero biblical Sin, Holy Cosmic NEBULAS-built S.paceS.hip Planet EARTH, aka S.S. GAiA, S.S. GEOiD, S.S. TELLUSng something!

--- Below are the 10 + 3, alternate, FiATS Of THE "NEW-SONG"

BEHOLD, The "10 Fiats" of the NEW SONG & the "2 Alternatives".

Please; Magnify Them & make them Honorable & Uphold Them!
-

1) "Let there be NO Worship of JEALOUSY as a G-D.!"

2) "Let there be NO Abuse of LOVE to forgive UNCORRECTED-SIN(s)!"

3) "Let there be NO Hassling over a NAME for G-d!"

4) "Let there be NO Denial of FREEDOM OF EKCLATi-ON-ity or
APOCALYPTARiANiTY as RELIGION et al!"

5) "Let there be NO Dishonoring of HONORABLE Parents!"

6) "Let there be NO Unjustifiable HOMICIDE or HURTING!"

7) "Let there be NO Sex with Non-CONSENTERS or BEASTS!"

8) "Let there be NO Theft from NON-THIEVES or NON-USERERS!"

9) "Let there be NO False WITNESSING or Un-JUST Judging!"

10) "Let there be NO Envy of {HU} {MATES} or Folks keeping these FIATS of O.U.R.
NEW-SONG!"
-
11) “Let there be NO Denial of TETRA-NEEDS (Food, Shelter, LOVE & Clothes) to
Any 'Hum {Ate} {Kind}!”

12) "Let there be NO Procrastination nor LAZYNESS!"

13) “Let there Be NO Denial To Self Nor Others in contemplation of REALITY, aka Ye Holy TRANS {FiNiTY}!”

>>True. Israel is not part of the United States; however, it is a Western democracy and ally of the United States. Never, never, never has Israel ever asked the United States for any soldiers or a single drop of blood for its defense. It has been a major target of Islamist violence, and suicide bombing.>>

3) You might have a point, if the USA had not sponsored terrorists in recent memory. Carter armed the "terrorists" in Afghanistan. Reagan armed terrorists in Angola and Nicaragua, as well as trading arms to Iranian backed terrorists. Nobody has clean hands.

If you believe there is no difference between Islamist terrorists and their goals I suggest you read "The Looming Tower". It might help you put things in a clearer perspective,

Why don't you add "Oklahoma City NEVER AGAIN!!!" with that? Is it because it was carried out by right wing Christians?

Timothy McVeigh was a disgruntled sociopath who was an individual sociopath with a few confederates. He had no real religious or political agenda. He headed not international terrorist organization. You are comparing apples and oranges

faithfulservant3:

What about them? Some people, over a period of several hundred years, put together an engaging tale for you. The writings are no more sacred than, and in fact draw heavily from, any of several hundred other sacred texts from other religions and cultures. They have none, zero, zip, to do with the running of this country.

You may be as much of a problem as the Taliban.

"This fast growing, anti-science, apocalyptic religion should scare anyone who wants leaders who will lead with an eye to the future. If global warming is in "God's hands," why should we care about the environment, for example."

Jamie Wright, "fast growing"? Read any account of history to see how silly that description is. Also, while I would not like to say that "global warming is in 'God's hands'", if something is indeed in God's hands, one can expect that those who try to follow God would in fact care very much about it. No surprise, this is the case with the other half of evangelicals in the U.S. This evangelical looks back over two thousand years of precedents for why we should care about the environment.

The James Watt quote: "God gave us these things to use. After the last tree is felled, Christ will come back" is found on page 229 of the book Setting the Captives Free by Austin Miles.

Christian redneck drivel.

Howard - you must have really enjoyed the last 8 years under Bush? Apparently so, as McCain/Palin will give us plenty more where that came from...

While Obama is untested, we can be assured that essential democratic platform positions and policies will be on the agenda - that's a pretty huge difference from the republicans, and knowing that much is more than enough to vote for Obama - whether he was your first democratic choice or not. It's hard to comprehend the pro-Hillary forces that threaten party anarchy by voting McCain!

And McCain/Palin will conceivably create more chaos than Bush has generated - imagine building on the last 8 years with more of the same. That could really break the bank, sink the boat, and throw everyone under the bus, all at the same time.

It is so very, very odd that the Palinites don't even remotely begin to see this. Strange, but then some folks are monochromatic and never experience color, even once in their lives. I think religion and politics are like that for alot of people. It is a perceptual anomaly, of sorts.

What a sorry state; when the world is being destroyed by greed, glutonny, pride, and envy; our Christiam Evangelical Luddites are rejecting Science in favor of imaginary God creation based on charlatan liars from the mega-church Pulpits, hate spewing "talk" radio, and Murdocks Fox exploitation networks! These folks enjoy their lusts whether in Minn bathrooms, Republican cloakrooms, or ministrial closets; but love to castigate the modern sexual behaviors of their children in the ridiculs believe that their lusty Jesus only dined with all his lady friends and that mysogynist, Paul, could be correct about anything!

To save the world; this nonsense of Christianity must be ended; the exploitation of the ignorant must treated as a crime of extortion and racketeering; the assets of the "churches" and their leaders confiscated and returned to the victums; centers need to be established to help these victims recovery their humanity and become prodcutive members of their country...and the world...the 3rd rock from the lonely star on the edge of a small galaxy far, far from universe hub!

As you "Lead the Multitudes to Hell" take a moment and ponder your own words, "For better or worse, it is impossible in 2008 America to seek and win a Presidential election without the inclusion of a clear faith narrative."

The supernatural being in the burning bush, the one Moses made the deal with like McCain makes deal with those who call that being God ignore the fact that IT is actually Satan formerly known to Christians as Lucifer. "Faith based initiatives" will be used to pay for their votes the way Bush paid for them.

Geroge Carlin summarizes it best:

Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bull**** story. Holy ****!”

fr anonymous 3:15pm:

>...She probably also thinks it's God's will to ban abortion, have abstinence only sex education, ban stem cell research, fire her ex-brother-in-law, and ban the books from the Wasilla public library as she wanted to do....

She also wants to deny same-sex couples basic human and civil rights by stripping away our RIGHT to marry. The only way she should be anywhere NEAR the White House is as a tourist on the guided tour.

What kind of "credentials" does Keith Olbermann, or anyone else, need in order to (1) listen to or read the writings and remarks of Pentecostals, Charismatics, or other fundamentalist monotheists of any stripe, (2) consult the apologetic and critical literature to decipher any special terms, (3) weigh the evidence -- if any -- that would support the truth-claims that such people of faith make about THIS world, and (4) conclude that the claims are unfounded and possibly dangerous nonsense?

The tired and trite notion that one must have a divinity degree (or must be a theologian or other "insider") in order to interpret and evaluate the real-world accuracy of theological claims is just as nonsensical as, say, the pronouncment by Pat Robertson that the citizens of Dover, PA had angered God by voting their school board out of office in the midst of the creationism/intelligent design debacle that played out in the Kitzmiller v. Dover case.

The trouble with invoking God into politics is that it leads politicians to stubborn, dogmatic positions. Palin claims that it is God's will to fight in Iraq and to put a gas pipeline in Alaska. She probably also thinks it's God's will to ban abortion, have abstinence only sex education, ban stem cell research, fire her ex-brother-in-law, and ban the books from the Wasilla public library as she wanted to do. When something becomes "God's will", it eliminates the necessity for examination of facts or intelligent discussion. After all, God is infallible so any other point of view is wrong and those who adopt it is going against God and should be punished.

We have seen an administration operate in this fashion for the past 8 years. The religious right are energized by Palin because they think her selection as VP running mate means that the country will continue to run that way if McCain wins.

The trouble is that Palin and the religious right in general have not established their credentials for speaking for God's will. Certainly their main political positions run counter to the Bible, which Palin and her group argue is the word of God. So it is hard to imagine how going against the Bible means doing God's work. Consider the following:

the Republican party supports tax cuts that favor the rich and deregulation of businesses that prey on the poor. Jesus said that rich people cannot enter the kingdom of heaven and people cannot serve both God and money. Jesus told Lazarus that if he wanted to follow Jesus he had to give up his money.

Palin thinks the Iraq war is God's work. The Republican party is pro-war, pro-military, pro-guns and pro-death penalty. the ten commandments include "thou shalt not kill" and Jesus taught us to beat swords into ploughshares and to turn the other cheek when attacked. When Jesus was being crucified he called for forgiveness, not the death penalty, for those who were killing him.

The Bible teaches us that God gave us the earth to care for, but the Republican party is the more environmentally unfriendly of the two major parties (Bush denied global warming exists; "drill baby drill" was the chant at the RNC, and Palin fought to have polar bears considered not endangered).

Additionally, the Republicans have voted to support torture of detainees and against SCHIP (health care for poor children). It is hard to imagine that this were "God's will" votes.

It seems hypocritical that the party that claims to be following "God's will" act so diametrically opposed to the teachings of the very book they maintain is "God's word".

I think voters should respond by taking them out of power and letting them practice their religions in their churches and in their homes where religion belongs.

This fast growing, anti-science, apocalyptic religion should scare anyone who wants leaders who will lead with an eye to the future. If global warming is in "God's hands," why should we care about the environment, for example.

Pentecostalism and evangelicalism are disturbing and, in the end, will adversely affect America's place with its allies and the rest of the world.

RE: Religious test post:

The constitution bans government from religious tests not its citizens from enquiring of the candidates. Obviously you don't know the constitution.

This post by Rodriguez is the best I have seen on this pathetically-liberal propaganda faux-faith site.

As a practicing Catholic (and I say practicing, because I haven't perfected it yet), I really wish faithful Christians would stop talking about being Christian and just start acting like one. As a Catholic, a former pastor once told us, we need to walk the walk, not talk the talk. He taught me that it's more important to act like a Catholic than talk like one. So...where are these "Christian" politians on issues such as poverty and justice? I'll tell you, on the wrong side!! So stop talking like one and start acting like one. Remember Jesus.... He didn't go around the countryside telling everyone he was the Messiah, he just acted like one. So stop telling me that Palin is a better Christian than Obama. Palin voted against aid to single, unwed mothers (irony) while Obama has served his community on all levels.

Uh, considering where GWB and the leadership thus far has taken this nation war-wise, Sarah Palin's prayer request, in the context of her candidacy, is sort of like if the word's of Lincoln's second inaugural had come from the mouth of Jeff Davis.

B-Man:

FYI: a couple of years ago James Watt wrote a letter to the Washington Post in response to someone using him as a punching bag, like you did (of course, he was an easy target). But, it turns out that he never even said the words that you're alluding to and that have been erroneously repeated by people trying to mock Christians for decades.

Google it.

Article VI, section 3, of the United States Constitution:
“...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

You are so far removed from this simple wisdom - passed down to us by our enlightened Founders in our own Constitution - that you can't even see your error. What part of this simple and fundamental law don't you understand? No...test...ever!

"Ministerial preparation and theological education"?

What about the Holy Spirit? What about Jesus Christ, who was without "letters"? What about Paul? A man who, though, learned, made perfectly clear that his doctrine came through Christ and His Spirit (see Galatians 1:12 and 1 Corinthians 2:4). What about Simon Peter, a humble fisherman from Israel's backwater?

You may be as much of a problem as Olbermann.

Olbermann has every right and all the credentials he needs to criticize the creepy, wacked out, delusional world of Pentecostal Chritians.

If Sarah Palin believes end-times are near, then she is likely to view our nation's national resources the way James Watts, Reagen's Jesus-freak secretary of the interior did: use it or lose it! We're not going to be around much longer anyway!

Redneck Christians are bent on destroying this country.

Hey McCain, put some lipstick on that pig! What kinda blog you think this is, anyway?

Mr. Rodriguez, with all due respect why shouldn't Keith Olbermann speak about Ms. Palin and religion? He still is a citizen of this country and still has the right of speech, doesn't he? Besides, he isn't one who is wrapped up into religion to have his judgment clouded by it. I trust Mr. Olbermann's comments and thought process and I think he's dead on with his special comments. Mr. Olbermann is not running for office to be # 2 in command of the USA, he is a political and public affairs commentator. He doesn't do sports on tv only on the radio I believe.
As for Ms. Palin, her behavior and comments are frightening for those of us who do not wish to live under the authority of any god, gods or in a theocracy. It's unnerving hearing someone who could be in command of the country speak in such ways. I miss the days when religion was something you believed in private not something you wear on your sleeves and hoist upon others daily. Back in those days, I was religious and never felt that I was silenced or whatever. Perhaps it's time to return to religion as a form of private contemplation as opposed to something to interject into public policy.

What confuses me is that Palin at the GOP convention said that Obama was just a community organizer and she was a governor who made decisions.

The crowd at the GOP laughed, yelled, cheered and applauded. She has repeated this one liner over and over and over again.

If we look back in history we find that Jesus Christ was a community organizer and Pontius Pilot was the Governor of Judea.

Was the members of the GOP thinking about what they are saying about the Lord? Or do they not understand!

God’s will I would think would be to heal everyone. Back in the time Jesus saw that the wealthy were keeping all the protein for themselves and the poor and indentured servitude got only bread, a diet of which leads to severe malnutrition, biochemical malfunction and disease, so he was teaching them how to fish and make nets that they could get needed to eat protein and actually lift themselves from poverty. Therefore his will would be “The End of Disease” which you can read the steps and insight here.

There is no cure for disease, but there is a solution, the end of disease
http://intelegen.com/there_is_no_cure_for_disease.htm

You can also read the Fish Story Here
Sirius The FBI Agent and The Fish Company
http://iamblogging.net/Urgo/archives/2004/10/sirius_the_fbi.html

Obviously the people in positions of power are not doing God’s will because we would be implementing Universal Health not Universal Disease Care.

How is it even conceivable that we can endlessly debate who best understands god's will, when we certainly know that no such supernatural being exists? Is it not likely that such a form of insanity will eventually cause severe damage, for example by a religiously initiated long and bloody invasion of Iran?

John McCain is looking better and better as a presidential candidate. The only candidate with the experience and background to be a competent leader of the free world during times of war and economic upheaval.

Still undecided but leaning heavily towards McCain/Palin.

I have analyzed God's energy system design. Gas pipe lines are not his design.

He suspended a nuclear reactor overhead which distributes energy equally for free, all over the planet, effortless to use.

As I brought to our attention before:

In looking at the energy systems in the human body, and there isn't centralized production of energy, there is decentralized production of energy. Each cell has it's own energy production as should each house on the planet. We do need storage just like the ATP molecule in the body.

It's too bad that some don't have me by their side to duel against the fictions. I have this really cool sword ~Excalibur~.

GM is burdened by disease care costs it runs into the tens of billions. This is not good for America. It is time to implement Universal Health, not Universal Disease Care.

I also know about their internal accounting practices, and hence the need for transparency.

This is beautiful. "You're not a minister, so shut up!"

One interesting thing that has happened to the left wing of the American political spectrum is that it's no longer about freedom or rebellion against injustice, it's about credentials and order.

Not a scientist? Then you're not allowed to have an opinion on climate change.

Not a credentialed teacher? Then we can't let you in the classroom. You haven't had your mandatory Social Justice lessons.

Not a minister? Then don't talk about God, because you're not qualified. (I assume, Mr. Rodriguez, that you also want Nancy Pelosi to quit talking about the Catholic Church's stand on abortion?)

Everywhere I look in the political left, it's about "establishing the process." The left is returning to its totalitarian roots... life in this kind of America would be one gray unending slog through bureaucracy and paperwork; a never-ending day at the DMV.

What kind of advanced critical thinking does it require to realize that speaking in tongues is nonsense? Having been to a Pentecostal church and witnessed first hand people babbling incoherently, I would guess any normal, non-brainwashed five year old would realize how ridiculous it is to think you can speak to god that way. Which is worse believing this garbage or choosing a person who believes this to be your vice president?

All of Christianity is based on fable, myth, and wishful thinking but Pentecostalism is one of the most benighted versions thereof.