Our Pastor's Keeper

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I think the fact that Senator O'Bama is a proponent of the "new spirituality" that is fast becoming a movement across our nation both in and out of church should be brought out on the news. I know that even among your reporters there are those that favor this new movement. However, those who still hold to the truth of the Bible and the plan that our God put into place should be made aware of O'Bama's favoring of this movement. It is his right to believe any way his wants to. But the Christian's who do not even know of this movement or do not know of O'Bama's involvment in it should have the opportunity to know of this.
MSandy

I don't know what Rev. Wright or Sen. Obama have to apologize for. Can't a black person in America, especially a community leader such as Wright, be angry with the racism and suffering and nationalistic arrogance happening still with America? Can't they speak out? I don't know what Obama has to qualify in his support. Wright is his personal minister. Obama need not agree with everything Wright says, nor need he explain: they are Wright's words, not Obama's.
As a white guy, I just feel the backlash is ultimately tied to the racist viewpoint of "Oh, we got ourselves an uppity Negro on our hands." Or "My God, maybe Obama actually has black ancestry."
A strong and moral nation should be able to accept criticism (from Wright) and differences of opinion. We should fear slamming down on outspokenness.

The Bible also says not to bear false witness against our neighbor. The repeated, out-of-context mischaracterization of Rev. Wright's remarks does just that. Why doesn't anyone in the media (with the possible exception of Roland Martin) quote Rev. Wright directly following the "incendiary" remarks: "Turn to your neighbor and say 'forgive him for the God damn..."? Did you know they were there? Did you bother to listen to the whole sermon?

As far as Obama goes, it would be un-Christian of him to reject Rev. Wright, the man, whatever he thought of his ideas. It would also be contrary to his goal of reaching out to people who disagree with us on some things in order to act on our common values. Obama walks the talk.

The Bible also says not to bear false witness against our neighbor. The repeated, out-of-context mischaracterization of Rev. Wright's remarks does just that. Why doesn't anyone in the media (with the possible exception of Roland Martin) quote Rev. Wright directly following the "incendiary" remarks: "Turn to your neighbor and say 'forgive him for the God damn..."? Did you know they were there? Did you bother to listen to the whole sermon?

As far as Obama goes, it would be un-Christian of him to reject Rev. Wright, the man, whatever he thought of his ideas. It would also be contrary to his goal of reaching out to people who disagree with us on some things in order to act on our common values. Obama walks the talk.

The Bible also says not to bear false witness against our neighbor. The repeated, out-of-context mischaracterization of Rev. Wright's remarks does just that. Why doesn't anyone in the media (with the possible exception of Roland Martin) quote Rev. Wright directly following the "incendiary" remarks: "Turn to your neighbor and say 'forgive him for the God damn..."? Did you know they were there? Did you bother to listen to the whole sermon?

As far as Obama goes, it would be un-Christian of him to reject Rev. Wright, the man, whatever he thought of his ideas. It would also be contrary to his goal of reaching out to people who disagree with us on some things in order to act on our common values. Obama walks the talk.

Many thanks for your article, Sally. It lends much needed context.

As to those of Pastor Wright's comments that relate to Israel, I hope they might somehow bring about, perhaps for the first time, open and free discussion of the inordinate influence Israel and its American surrogates have, and have had for decades, on American foreign policy in the Middle East. Professor Mearsheimer and Wald did this in their book last year and got "creamed" by the media and others for having dared to do so.

It reminded me of this statement of Sen. J. William Fulbright, then Chrm. of the Senate's Foreign Relations Committee, made in 1973.

"(Unfortunately) U.S. foreign policy, as it relates to the Middle East, is conceived in Tel Aviv and born in Washington."

And so it appears to have continued to this day. (Witness, above all, Israeli and American Zionist influence and pressure to cause America to start its current war against Iraq.)

Moreover, the commments of Nixon and Graham about the inordinately high percentage of Jews in the America media appear to apply even more so today. And that truth is not without effect on the "bent" of the news Americans are given as to events anywhere in the Middle East.

In all, Jews compose 1.8% of Americans. Only about 50% of those Jews consider themselves Zionists, i.e., subscribers to "Israel, right or wrong!" And yet, virtually the entire American Congress of both houses is completely intimidated by "pacs" such as American-Israeli Political Affairs Committee (AIPAC). With all of Israel's brutal land occupations in the Middle East for the last 35 years, any reference to them in Washington, D.C. is a total taboo.

What a blessing it would be for America if these realities were permitted to be freely discussed in America and among its media.

Thank you Ms. Quinn for an honest and telling article. It was also a pleasure to see your conversation with Andrea Mitchell on MSNBC (3\27\08). It's sad to see a "news station" speculate, make assertions, harp on and hold accountable Sen. Obama for statements he didn't make nor, as he clearly stated, disagrees with. Although he clearly said why he remained a member of the Church, he keeps getting asked the same question. It seems some will not be satiated until Obama says what "They" WANT to hear. The hypocrisy of it all is most disturbing. Their agenda is quite clear.

thank you so much, Sally, for your contribution to putting this issue in its proper context.

A wonderful article and perspective.

Clinton says she would have split with Obama's pastor
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/03/26/america/NA-POL-US-Elections.php

Hillary's Nasty Pastorate
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080331/ehrenreich

Good Morning,

Each time I turn on my computer and just happen onto a site never visited before, just like today, I find the most shocking information.

Your article is the very crucks of the matter. That we are human being first and foremost. Yes, and as you have further documented, the cracks in the armor are very apparent. And, more clearly, the 1st Amendment Right to Freedom of Speech is still not extended to African Americans.

We can only provide the shoulder to cry on. Apparently, we can never be a voice to be heard.

A 60 Plus African American Female

i didnt see any murder in the Bible. but i did see who didnt study its language.

it is not in the Bible, it is not USA that murders innocent people, it is the Presidency system. why do USA elect a President?

could You make Presidency like United Nations and European Union? nations, countries, states in turn? and from each state may there be a council.

can You take a Californian Yatcher to speak for in the council?

After market surveys showed that confessions in the Roman Catholic Church are down, product designers developed seven state-of-the-art capital vices. They will be powerful creators of new mortal sins for which confessions are a must (if you do not want to be toasted right following your death).

Read the real news in The Times online:

“After 1,500 years the Vatican has brought the seven deadly sins up to date by adding seven new ones for the age of globalisation. The list, published yesterday in L’Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, came as the Pope deplored the “decreasing sense of sin” in today’s “securalised world” and the falling numbers of Roman Catholics going to confession.”

See http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3517050.ece

Peace to all and best wishes.

JAC

Words with very important theological impact:

"Heaven is a spirit state. No physical bodies abide there."

"In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."

http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.

Dear Sally

I wish you a wonderful Easter 2008!

Best wishes
Soja

-------------

PS: I have been unable to post any comment for the past fifteen minutes. I wonder why. All comments are being withheld for approval, although there is nothing more than an Easter wish. I hope the problem gets fixed soon!

Thank you for this thoughtful and accurate column. It should be required reading for the commentators and panelists on CNN, MSNBC, the network commentators and panelists and, yes, Fox News.

Daniel,

You ask me to choose a candidate in April? I am open to all the candidates. However, I have decided to rule out Obama. If he is the nominee of the Democrats then I will vote for McCain. I see the bias against the Clintons in the Media. I am not sold on Hillary at the moment either. I had high hopes for Obama. I wanted him to win. I had even sent money to his campaign. But I am now sure after seeing Obama's 'typical white' grandmother and releasing the photo of Wright with Clinton that Obama's campaign is neither honorable nor truthful. I no longer trust anything that comes out of that man's mouth. Hence, I cannot recommend a candidate yet, but I can recommend that Obama is definitely not someone I would like to see the president of my country.

To JAR,

I suggested to quit religion because clergies are exacerbating race hate.

Your response:

“With what will you replace them? Paris Hilton? Britney Spears? A faster BMW? A bigger mini mansion? A nose job? A boob job? A Rolex watch? The modern materialist world is empty enough already.
So no thanks, my friend, I'll keep my religion.”

I believe you do not need to replace “them”. My suggestion was to eliminate the middle people, go direct to the boss.

Peace for you JAR and other posters and readers.

JAC

ChurchStateWall:

"Take former Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, for example."

You take him. The Republicans didn't seem think he was ready to be President.

I think Huckabee is a decent man who has no hate in his heart. Still, I think his idea about amending the Constitution to reflect his particular religion is troubling.

So I like Mike - but not for President.

I think Obama is also a decent man who has no hate in his heart. Still his choice to take his children to this church where hate is taught at least some of the time is troubling.

So I like Barak - but not for President.

Both of these men have much to offer the American political discourse. Neither, in my view, is ready for the Presidency.

Just a comment:

"It's time to quit religion. Yes, not your church, denomination, sect or religious group, quit religion."

With what will you replace them? Paris Hilton? Britney Spears? A faster BMW? A bigger mini mansion? A nose job? A boob job? A Rolex watch? The modern materialist world is empty enough already.

So no thanks, my friend, I'll keep my religion.

Religion exacerbating race hate in America ?

It's time to quit religion. Yes, not your church, denomination, sect or religious group, quit religion.

No religious people no market for the Wrights, Fallwells, Jacksons, et all.

For those that quit that still believe in God, can communicate with Him/Her directly, no costly intermediaries.

Do not know in depth the bible, koran, etc. to remember or cite the correct verses? Not to worry, your God, Alah, etc. should be perfectly familiar with the books.

Peace and best wishes to all.

This appears to be the common denominator among some of the cross accusations in the posts so far: your church (pastor, priest, rabbi, imam, minister, padre, etc.) have said worse things than mine.

We all are somehow related to a religion. Depending of your age, you have hear during 10, 20 or more years your religion leaders sometimes say horrible things.

Some agree with this preaching, others do not. Some keep silence, others react and say something. Others simply quit, but not before years and years of silence.

What happens is that first person that preaches religion to us is our mother or other significant relative, at an age that we do not even understand what this loved person is telling to us.

No wonder why is tough to quit, but never is late.

Peace to all and best wishes.

JAC

After 20 years of sitting in the pews listening to Jeremiah Wright, calling him your spiritual advisor and mentor, writing a books based on his sermons, allowing him to marry you, and baptize your children, he becomes more than a pastor you hardly know.

What did Obama and his family listen to in those pews for 20 years. Jeremiah Wright spewing the hatred of his own mentor, James Cone.

James Cone's Black Liberation theology

The theologian explains:

Christ is black therefore not because of some cultural or psychological need of black people, but because and only because Christ really enters into our world where the poor were despised and the
black are, disclosing that he is with them enduring humiliation and pain and transforming oppressed slaves into liberating servants.

Rather than viewing God as a sovereign being who does as he wills according to his purposes, Cone insists God must do what we want him to do, or we must reject him.

What the black community wants, Cone says, is for God to assist in its goal of destroying "the white enemy."

Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him.
The task of black theology is to kill gods who do not belong to the black community

... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people
to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.

A. Kafir, @ March 20, 2008 11:28 AM

I agree with you; however I do no like any of the other candidates either. Daniel in the Lion's Den's post @ 3/21/08 at 10:38 AM should have asked you "what you like about the other candidates" instead of telling you to stop talking that way about Obama.

No one has the right to dictate to you how to express your views regarding Obama.

The problem is on these forums when you express something that is not in agreement with others they criticize your method of expression with the goal of "shutting you down."

Feel free to continue to use your right of free speech just like they do.

A Kafir

You said a lot of bad things about Obama. You spent alot of effort trying to tear him down. Yet, of the 3 candidates running for President, I like him best, and he is the one that I hope wins.

If you do not want him to win, then why not, instead of going on a rant tearing him down, why don't your promote the one that you like best, and try to persuade people to vote for that person. I would be a little more open to that kind of arguing.

I am always been suspicious of people who seek to build themselves up by tearing other people down. In fact, that forces me take a closer look at the person they are trying to tear down, and seek out the underlying motivations.

Obama supporters cannot get past the fact that it is no longer an issue of what Wright said but it is all about Obama's words and judgment on how he has handled the broadcasting of Wright's words. America invented HIV to kill and subjugate Blacks ... Wright said that among many other things.

How does Obama stand ask for Imus to be kicked off the air a few months earlier, stand and say he never heard Wright say anything "incendiary" four days earlier, and then when the story won't go away about his inconvenient 'uncle', comes out with that he did hear 'controversial' statements and equates the hate and bigotry of a pastor making humping motions at the pulpit with his white grandmother around the kitchen table!!! Only followers can be fooled by such rhetoric, and they clearly are.

Obama lied and politicians lie. So get over it. Obama is a lousy politican, and so start asking what the heck has he done? He wants to be a Unifier ... Okay.. so what did he do to unify his church? He heard all these controversial things at his church, he hear all this hate against the whites at the church, so what did he do?

Obama the politician shows incredible bad judgment at the very few things that are known about him. Rezko .. a bone head decision by his own words.
Wright ... 20 years of calling him 'uncle' and listening to controversial sermons and doing nothing?

Steyn has this at his site and it captures Obama fairly well. And people should simply ignore Obama's words?
****************************

Old Barack:

Don’t tell me words don’t matter.

‘I have a dream.’ Just words?

‘We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal.’ Just words?

‘We have nothing to fear but fear itself.’ Just words? Just speeches?

New Barack:

'God damn America.' Just words.

'US government created Aids, supplied drugs to our community.' Just words.

'US of KKKA.' Just words.

'What we are doing is the same thing al-Qaeda is doing.' Just words.

'Until now, I was never proud of my country.' Just words from my wife.
********************************

Wanna know how to get ourselves past the divisive comments of Obama's pastor?

Easy. Pretend that Obama is a Republican. Many Republicans attend churches that preach divisive hate week after week, and that doesn't seem to hurt them. In the "right" parts of the country, that actually gets them elected.

Sometimes, the candidate himself is a pastor in a hate-preaching religious sect.

Take former Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, for example.

Huckabee is a pastor in the Southern Baptist denomination. A very high official in the Southern Baptist Convention, Wiley Drake, has actively been praying for the DEATHS of certain religious freedom activists* -- and the rest of the leadership of the SBC refuses to repudiate him.

Here, we have a high official in the SBC issuing, for all intents and purposes, a death fatwa -- yet this hasn't been brought to bear against Huckabee's candidacy whatsoever.

Yes, indeed, the argument can be made that affiliation with a church can be considered a sharing of values. But the argument ONLY seems to be made when you're a Democrat.

If you're a Republican, your pastor or denomination can house the most vile, hateful leaders -- and nobody utters a word.

http://churchstatewall.typepad.com/

* More info: http://blog.au.org/2008/02/19/the-diabolical-dr-drake-sbc-official-had-more-power-than-sbc-flack-admits/

OK, let's see here. Clinton has been in the Senate for 7-plus years, has basically done nothing for New York, and yet she has a bastion of supporters who feel she'd be a great President. Mindful as I am that they still cannot qualify their reasoning, we now find ourselves on the verge of collapsing Obama's campaign on the basis of some rhetoric which he didn't even speak.

His rebukes weren't to the satifaction of many people, but the same logic does NOT apply to the Hillary camp when calling her accomplishments into question. That is just not unsatisfactory enough.

It is ghastly to witness the brain activity of the common voter in this country. Will a loud, boistrous pastor ruin a possible legitimate candidacy because people cannot (nor are willing) to separate the two? Hasn't anyone a relative who says many obnoxious things at which we roll our eyes? Should we instead rebuke them in front of everyone in the room now? Would that be satifactory?

Because apparently, being a Senator for over 7 years and accomplishing NOTHING is not worthy of the same rebuke.

Dear Sally

As an Indian-Australian I will not respond to the political implication of the issue being discussed.

But I will try to respond as a general theme: am I to be held responsible for what somebody else says or does? NO! NO! NO! I do not even want to be held responsible for what my mother thinks or says or does, nor do I want her to be held responsible for my thoughts, words or actions. On judgement day each one of us will have to answer only for our own lives, our actions and non-actions, not that of others. It is hard enough taking responsibility for our own wrong doings...

Am I to be held responsible for the views and life of my parish priest? God forbid!

Soja John Thaikattil
Sydney, Australia

If your pastor says something you don't agree with is one thing, to listen to his opinions in agreement for 20 years and repudiate it only after it becomes public is different.
The idea that Wright is like a "crazy uncle" is the most manipulative argument I ever heard, because everybody has one and it seems so innocent. The difference is that you can't choose your family but you can choose your church.

What was the question? I agree with Rev. Wright and I am an Atheist. Why do the theists get all upset when their leaders tell them the way it is. Do they go church shopping to find the kindest soft soaping churches and their leaders? Someone must tell them that preaching and the bible is not about nicey nicey it is about going to hell if you don't think the way we tell you to think!

What was the question? I agree with Rev. Wright and I am an Atheist. Why do the theists get all upset when their leaders tell them the way it is. Do they go church shopping to find the kindest soft soaping churches and their leaders? Someone must tell them that preaching and the bible is not about nicey nicey it is about going to hell if you don't think the way we tell you to think!

What was the question? I agree with Rev. Wright and I am an Atheist. Why do the theists get all upset when their leaders tell them the way it is. Do they go church shopping to find the kindest soft soaping churches and their leaders? Someone must tell them that preaching and the bible is not about nicey nicey it is about going to hell if you don't think the way we tell you to think!

What was the question? I agree with Rev. Wright and I am an Atheist. Why do the theists get all upset when their leaders tell them the way it is. Do they go church shopping to find the kindest soft soaping churches and their leaders? Someone must tell them that preaching and the bible is not about nicey nicey it is about going to hell if you don't think the way we tell you to think!

What was the question? I agree with Rev. Wright and I am an Atheist. Why do the theists get all upset when their leaders tell them the way it is. Do they go church shopping to find the kindest soft soaping churches and their leaders? Someone must tell them that preaching and the bible is not about nicey nicey it is about going to hell if you don't think the way we tell you to think!

What was the question? I agree with Rev. Wright and I am an Atheist. Why do the theists get all upset when their leaders tell them the way it is. Do they go church shopping to find the kindest soft soaping churches and their leaders? Someone must tell them that preaching and the bible is not about nicey nicey it is about going to hell if you don't think the way we tell you to think!

What was the question? I agree with Rev. Wright and I am an Atheist. Why do the theists get all upset when their leaders tell them the way it is. Do they go church shopping to find the kindest soft soaping churches and their leaders? Someone must tell them that preaching and the bible is not about nicey nicey it is about going to hell if you don't think the way we tell you to think!

What was the question? I agree with Rev. Wright and I am an Atheist. Why do the theists get all upset when their leaders tell them the way it is. Do they go church shopping to find the kindest soft soaping churches and their leaders? Someone must tell them that preaching and the bible is not about nicey nicey it is about going to hell if you don't think the way we tell you to think!

I've been an Episcopalian for many, many years and until recently I have never encountered a Priest that included politics into the sermon. We had a new Priest who was injecting his political leanings which had overtones of "it's all America's fault for whatever is wrong in this world, or possibly Israel's". I spoke to the Priest and told him how offended I was by his sermons and that I didn't come to church to hear politics from either the left or the right. I did finally leave the church. We have a very small congregation and when 40 other members left I guess the priest saw the light and went back to preaching the Gospel. I have returned to the church. Obama could have done the same.

I've been an Episcopalian for many, many years and until recently I have never encountered a Priest that included politics into the sermon. We had a new Priest who was injecting his political leanings which had overtones of "it's all America's fault for whatever is wrong in this world, or possibly Israel's". I spoke to the Priest and told him how offended I was by his sermons and that I didn't come to church to hear politics from either the left or the right. I did finally leave the church. We have a very small congregation and when 40 other members left I guess the priest saw the light and went back to preaching the Gospel. I have returned to the church. Obama could have done the same.

I've been an Episcopalian for many, many years and until recently I have never encountered a Priest that included politics into the sermon. We had a new Priest who was injecting his political leanings which had overtones of "it's all America's fault for whatever is wrong in this world, or possibly Israel's". I spoke to the Priest and told him how offended I was by his sermons and that I didn't come to church to hear politics from either the left or the right. I did finally leave the church. We have a very small congregation and when 40 other members left I guess the priest saw the light and went back to preaching the Gospel. I have returned to the church. Obama could have done the same.

Barak Obama's speech was good. And do you know why? Because he actually said something.

When most public officials speak, they are just running out the clock, talk, talk, talk, words, words, words, any words will do, a recipe from Julia Child's cook book will do as well as anything, just anything, to run out the clock, to get to the end, without making a mistake.

So, it sounds extra-special good, to hear someone give a speech in which they actually say something. I think even the Obama-bashers have to agree, it is nice to hear someone say something, in this, the hollowest and most empty of times.

probably the best and most rational discussion of this. it is so funny how many people who are talking about this are doing so from such fragile glass houses.

First they said Obama was a Muslim. Now they don't like his Pastor or his church.

But, hey, guess, what?

It IS a church, and the pastor there IS a Christian.

What do all the Obama-bashers expect? That Obama should be a Southern Baptist? I think that outfit is just a little too white, too redneck, and too racist for someone like him.

Yes! Time For A Change of a Better DEMOCRATS, Time For Hillary! YHEA!

Mr. Obama simply pointed out a generational difference in the experience of his grandmother and his pastor. That does not explain to me why he is willing to continue to attend a church and listen to sermons that damn the United States.

Mr. Obama's attempt to place this issue within the broader context of generational change in race relations is political manipulation at its worst. Shame on you, Barack Obama.

Both your grandmother and your pastor deserve better from you. Shame for accepting 'secret' help from the Anti-America "Nation of Islam" , in fact, without your Grandmothers knowledge all this time, until you have been exposed.

Now you are 'Situationaly lying' through your mesmerizing unique & powerful (hence your secret manipulator ) 'Baratone Voice & using slick selection of Words through Psychology experts, like Oprah‘s Mr. PHIL’s advice on what to say to “The People” etc.., with intent to trick "THE PEOPLE", is a poor oss lame excuse, regardless if Your Polygamous Black Islamic Poppa Abandoned you & your White Momma for another Black Woman(s)! Like Father, like Son!

Obama, you stinck too much of Islam, an Anti-American System!????

SHAME on OBAMA who received passed support from the Nation Of (anti-U.S.A.) Islam!

Shame on Oprah Winfrey who has hired Nation Of Islam Guards! Shame on Luis Farrakhan!

Shame on REV. WRIGHT who's name should be changed to Rev Wrong!

Shame on N.A.A.C.P. For secretly working with Nation Of Islam!

Shame on "HYMiE" Hater Jesse Jackson, et al!

Guilt by Association? YES!

Mr. Obama simply pointed out a generational difference in the experience of his grandmother and his pastor. That does not explain to me why he is willing to continue to attend a church and listen to sermons that damn the United States. Mr. Obama's attempt to place this issue within the broader context of generational change in race relations is political manipulation at its worst. Shame on you, Barack Obama. Both your grandmother and your pastor deserve better from you. Shame for accepting 'secret' help from the Ant-America 'Nation of Islam."

LOVEO & LOVEA is arrived. We are Here!

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THANK YE ALL!

This entire "issue" surrounding Barack Obama and his "former" pastor is ridiculous and is not even worthy of being an issue. Come on, people! Married couples don't always agree. Does one leave her husband because their opinions differ on certain matters? Or because he used a word that she found unsavory? Do best friends part forever and end a friendship because one has said something that was troubling to the other? I was myself a member of a church for 13 years where the pastor's sermon was sometimes in direct opposition to my own position. Did I leave the church? No. Did I confront the pastor? At times. But was that a reason to sever all ties because we sometimes saw things differently? Absolutely not. We are ALL mortal beings, subject to the same mistakes, foibles and missteps in judgment. Pastors are NOT exempt. I found myself so very proud of Barack Obama yesterday for -- first of all -- not abandoning someone who has given him good guidance and counsel throughout many years of his life; and second, for being man enough, and indeed, presidential enough, to talk in substantive terms about a subject that is too often skirted over, swept under the rug, and ignored. This Union is NOT perfect, and if we don't follow his advice, it will never even come close.

What about the man that advocated the spread of slavery into the American West? That was Thomas Jefferson.

What about the man who vowed that no black man would ever be the political equal of any white man? That was Abraham Lincoln.

What about the man who opined that it would take at least two hundred thousand years of evolution before blacks had the mental and emotional capacities that whites have today? That was Teddy Roosevelt.

Dear Sally: It is truly long past the time when you should end your column. Your attitude is a conflation of politics with religion added in to make things confusing.... Hey, when do you want to publish a photo of Jon Meacham....is he as good looking as you? But really, the column is not worthy of print, and again really, what people believe or say they believe defines them as persons, not things. Obama's beliefs what ever they are - and right now who could define him in a worth while way - will be espoused by him in the oval office if he is elected....right?The secular creed of separation of church and state is a type of urban myth of the devour secular religious believers. Come to think of it, years ago Secularism...of the type you use to interpret religion was judged a religion by the Supreme Court. Perhaps you can seek out agreement for yyour secular beliefs rather than pontificate on what you don't know. Best wishes.

Dear Sally: It is truly long past the time when you should end your column. Your attitude is a conflation of politics with religion added in to make things confusing.... Hey, when do you want to publish a photo of Jon Meacham....is he as good looking as you? But really, the column is not worthy of print, and again really, what people believe or say they believe defines them as persons, not things. Obama's beliefs what ever they are - and right now who could define him in a worth while way - will be espoused by him in the oval office if he is elected....right?The secular creed of separation of church and state is a type of urban myth of the devour secular religious believers. Come to think of it, years ago Secularism...of the type you use to interpret religion was judged a religion by the Supreme Court. Perhaps you can seek out agreement for yyour secular beliefs rather than pontificate on what you don't know. Best wishes.

Dear Sally; it really is long past time when you should end your brutally confused column. It appears clear you fail to have the faintest idea of the nature of belief.

Barack Obama's gave one of the most powerful political speech in recent politic history. The topic happened to be on the racial issues. The speech was inspirational, described in details the modern racial issues from an historical perspective, and will help unit more americans: not all americans, but more. He laid a big step in the good direction. I would like to hear this type of speech (inspirational, historical and unifier) more often from politicians. I think that Obama would be a great president. He has already a positive impact on America and elsewhere in the world, serving as role model for many people, independently from the race, gender and religion.

I hope the "race card" does not derail Obama. He is like a breathe of fresh air.

autumn ozog

Christian,

Please do not tar all white people with the same racist brush. Not all of us are racists and haters. This kind of thinking is the same as Rev. Wright's. Like Sen. Obama said earlier, we need to move past this if we're going to make a better America.

This 40-something white Pagan woman from the 'burbs certainly appreciates your viewpoint. But let's try to move past saying "all blacks" or "all whites" (or "all Hispanics/Asians/Indians, etc." Not all white people want to fly the Confederate flag and burn a cross on your lawn. Not all Christians want to drag me out and burn me at the stake. (I'm sure that, if they ever do show up on my front lawn, Spiderman2 will be leading them.) Not all Muslims are terrorists.

For my part - yeah, the "God d**n America" was cringe-worthy. I'm sure that a lot of people in the pews cringed at those words, too. Did they leave the church as well? No. In Alcoholics Anonymous, they have a saying, "take what you like and leave the rest." I'm sure that's what Obama did WRT Rev. Wright's sermons. Took what he liked, then left the rest. Besides, who's to say that he or other members of the congregation didn't say, "hey Rev, tone it down a little" and Wright refused?

Does Barack Obama love America? Undoubtedly. He proved that today, by calling us to make a better America. It doesn't take a (made in China) flag pin to show your love of country. Does Michelle love America? I'm sure that she does, or she wouldn't be subjecting her family to this kind of public scrutiny. She may not be proud of some of the things that have been done in the past, but neither am I. Does Pastor Wright love America? He fought for it, in the Marines and Navy. Are his words any more damning than several white preachers, who say that America is damned because we allow gays, abortion, etc. and that want to overthrow the Constitution and establish a theocracy? I'd take Rev. Wright over the Dominionists any day. At least he could find common ground with Pagans - and I'm sure that I have some friends who could tell him more about African religion.

White people are so stupid - they refuse to see that their bigotry and that Dubya is more anti-American than Obama

Whites are so ignorant to proclaim -that simply because one loves the potential America more than the America of the past and present - that one is a bigot.

Whites are bigots because they expect blacks to be patriotic and to love a America - that is dysfunctional and racist.

Who can be love an America that has not been good to black people?

Sally Quinn - like many Whites is a bigot.

Why is it that whites like her - don't cause as much furor over racist white conservatives and theri pastors?

Reverand Wright spoke many truths - America is an amazingly corrupt nation - and it is a racist nation.

What is at all incendiary about this?

When Mike Huckabee defends the Confederate Flag - do we get this type of furor?

Sally Quinn is trying to make blacks apologize for challenging racism!

Please WAPO, stop deleting , Stealing & then Plagerizing me Workls & Others.

Shame WAPO Shame on You!

ON TH E SOLUTION TO THE UNDOCUMENTED ILLEGALS POLLUTION:

A Definition of Not Ducumented and those who are Legaly Documented

A genuine "AMRiCAN" ,aka "U.S. Of A."'er's, is some one who is, by birth or Naturalized, a
"documented" TEAM-PLAYER all the way, not half way! Having certain inalienable right indeed.
SUGGESTiON:

Please help all/every/any "iLLEGAL" (Not Documented Justly) congregate(s) or stranger(s), to fill-out I.R.S./Dep't TREAUSARY 'Form-W-7' aka "TiN" number or "TAXPAYER iDENTIFICATION Number. (like a 9-digit S.S.# or Biz E.i.N#).

iMPORTANT: IT's FREE & LEGAL & the only Criteria is to have a Ligit issued Passport of that person's Ebassy, Counslulate, Nation, AND to have a bonofide Address!

Hence: Every body is happy. The reciepient, Employer & Uncle-Sam, and American's & onfaith bloggers too!

So, This "TiN#" will help them "legally' pay taxes (while here, but NO-tax return privilage) apply for a drivers License, Go to school & other good tidings.

iNCAMERA (Secret): IF , one who has a "TiN#" and can show they have payed taxex, work & lagit
address etc.. THEN a "FEDERAL iMIGRATON" [D.H.S.] JUDGE or MAGiSTRATE, From the "Dep't of
Justice", will most likely be "FAVORABLE" to those WHO-HAVE "TiN#", ELSE those who HAVE-NOT,
so to speaketh will have no 'Chance'!

This is a Best of three-worlds scenerio: Good for SELF esteem, the Employee & Mrs. & Mr. Uncle
SAMMY Baby's!

Here is the "W-7" linko & explanation. ENjOY!
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw7.pdf

"There's alway's an Answer!"

.J
..O
...Z
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......Z.usThank you ALL!

1st Posted here on MARCH.18th.2008, 12:29PM

March 18, 2008 10:18 PM

March 18, 2008 10:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on March 18, 2008 22:27

Meeeeeeeeeeeee:
Well Tim,i am surprised you did not cast your moral opinion on New Yorks fallen govennor,any advice for a man who clearly abused his position of power.To the naked eye he appeared to be the perfect husband and father,makes you wonder.

March 18, 2008 7:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on March 18, 2008 19:53

WHERE's the N.A.A.C.P. & OPRAH WiNFREY & LOUiS FARAKAHN, JESSE JACKSON, SHABAAZ et al???

Where are Ye???

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from Berlinerblau's blogg et al , March 18, 2008 5:47 PM .

1st Posted here on MARCH.18th.2008, 12:29PM on MODERATOR's Christy McKerney & Guest Rev. Joseph Leon @ "Immigrants as Neighbors in Need".

John, you say: "I voted for Obama but after seeing and hearing what he (Obama) listened to for 20 while sitting in these pastors sermons makes me sick. I'm voting for McCain."

You heard 30 seconds of sound bytes pulled from 20 years of sermons.

Voting for McCain? what do you know about him? and his pastor? I would think you'd want to find out.

So, Pat Robertson said that Foggy Bottom, (the State Department) should be NUKED, and there is no outrage-just a shrug that these religious preachers say outrageous stuff all the time.

And we gave this guy 14 MILLION DOLLARS in taxpayer money. I want to see his books, please.

Obama '08

If we were to repudiate the people around us, for saying the wrong things about others, chances it wouldn't take too long for us to be living life by ourselves. Everyone at one time or another, says something which is consider politically incorrect. I believe it is by staying close to those individual and by serving as a living example, that we might help them change into better human beings, the same way that others will teach us thru their actions, on how to be better beings.

First and foremost, Obama is a politician and his speech today proves that again. In his speech, Obama analogizes his family relationship with his grandmother to that of his pastor and church. This doesn’t wash with me. Where you go to church and the sermons that you listen to is entirely voluntary. Your blood relationships are not. Personally, I don’t understand how anyone could listen to the sermons that are objected to and continue to go to that church and listen to more sermons there. In any case, I think that these voluntary relationships and associations are fair game for political scrutiny. To obscure the issue, Obama has strained to position his pastor's objectionable sermons in the broader context of race relations in America. This is pure political manipulation at its worst. Shame on you Barack Obama.

Ha Ha! You're not reading carefully, are you? I'm a dyed in the wool DEMOCRAT, my friend, and not ashamed to say that. However, if it is a race between the supremely unfit Obama, the anomaly candidate of 2008, then it will be the first time I will force my hand to scratch out a check mark for a Republican candidate for President. I KNOW Obama would be completely DISASTROUS as a President, I KNOW he has a deceptive, arrogant personality, and that he has NO business running for President, his personality is uniquely unsuited for that position, in that regard, he's rather like a Richard M. Nixon in the making. It's very clear, Obama doesn't really like people, and he doesn't like having to explain himself either. Such arrogance simply won't do, if you want to be President. Obama really thinks that all he needs to do is give these empty rhetorical speeches so that he may get those upper class sucker Americans who love his elitist law professor background to swoon for him as the minority candidate they can back, and feel good about, but not question-questioning Obama's stance on ANYTHING is not part of Obama's game, because that's a bit too difficult-and when that happens, THEN he can trot out the race card.

Of course, twits like Sally Quinn go right along with Obama on that score, but Sally unfortunately gets to use the Post to manipulate people into thinking that they shouldn't be questioning Obama either, that whatever Obama does or says is O.K., no matter how racist or wrong or weird his beliefs or influences may be, JUST DON'T TRY TO CRITICIZE HIM, EVER, BECAUSE HE IS ABOVE CRITICISM-HE IS, THE ONE AND ONLY BARACK OBAMA, ABOVE IT ALL!

Sheesh! Give me a break!

It's disgusting, how a major newspaper can give such an unfettered platform to the former boss's wife to mouth whatever silly platitudes or stream of consciousness thought that comes into her head each day. Sally Quinn IS pathetic. No question about that, but not as much as the Post, in allowing her such a platform in the first instance.

When white ministers Falwell and Robertson said similar comments regarding 911 and New Orleans whre the media condemning them at the time? If people expect other humans to be perfect before they give advice then they need to take the beam out of their own eye before they open their mouth.

I believe anybody can go to whatever church they please. It doesn't mean that we have to put them in charge of our country. Jeremiah Wright didn't say that "God might da-- America for actions." He implored that it happen. Why is it that he is unavailable to the press for any reaction or comment? Let's hear in his own words what he truly believes and preaches.

Judy

What have your comments got to do with Obama?

I voted for Obama but after seeing and hearing what he (Obama) listened to for 20 while sitting in these pastors sermons makes me sick. I'm voting for McCain. I'm white and Christian if a white pastor had said something along those lines you can bet sharpton, Jackson and the NAACP will want his head on a silver platter. And if you disagree with what was said (by that pastor) the black community labels you a racist and plays the slavery card. I'm sick of it. I'm not a racist. I don't agree with any pastor preaching hate, black or white. So don't blame me for what happened (slavery) to the black people some 200+ years ago, or that the white race is oppressing the black race it's getting old.

What Obama has confirmed with his Candidacy is all politicians be they White, Black, Democrat or Republican will say or do anything for money to get votes or for votes. The only honest Politician in the race was R. Paul. The rest puts self number one, Party second, and lobbyist third. The best interest of this Nation or American citizens is not on their priority list. We only exist at election time to be lied to, spun, or whatever it takes to get out votes! In the final analysis Obama is just another lying Bottom feeding Politician!

.L.~~~∧ ----
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.V.~~ ]={} ) ))))ha Ha Ha Ha Ha..
.E.~~(♣) /
.O.~~~∨ ----

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SHAME SHAME SAlly Quinn, Fareed Zakaria et al & "NEWSWEEK" WashingtonPost, Newyork Times et al!

SHAME SHAME SAlly Quinn, Fareed Zakaria et al & "NEWSWEEK" WashingtonPost, Newyork Times et al!

Plese Also restore ALL Missing & STOLEN & Blacklisted Words Today!

Obama's speech makes it very clear where he stands. Obama justifies the victim mentality and hatred of Wright. That is insulting to all the black churches and black leaders that do now want to give into being a victim and hatred. Look at Ward Connerly. He wants to go beyond race and he is actually doing something about it. Obama is merely trying to save is a$$ with his nice words. Americans have moved beyond race hate and that is why he is where he is, and he chooses to play the race card now!! He denied knowing what wright had said, and now like a good lawyer (liar) he parses his words very very carefully.

“Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church?” Obama said. “Yes."

Controversial? That is it? This is after saying he had not heard any of the statements. Is this as good as Clintons parsing the meaning of "is"? Obama chose to be silent at
1. The white folks have created HIV virus against the blacks.
2. God Damn America
3. Praise and Man of the year for Farrakhan.

among other things. It is absolutely rubbish to suggest that even most black leaders give into this kind of hate or even tolerate such hateful crap and play the victim.

The liberal whites may swallow Obamas rubbish as they self flagellate themselves to feel good, but I doubt the people in Novemeber are going to buy into this distorted view of America and its people.

Blacks need to start taking some personal responsibility for high rate of high school drop out, sexual promiscuity, children born out of wedlock, , absence of male parenting/role models, drugs, crime, incarceration, AIDS, and lack of personal responsibility instead of playing the victim hood game and blaming everyone else for their plight! Until that time there will always be hate mongers & race baiter,s to use them and profit from their plight like the Rev. Wright, Rev. Jessie Jackson and Rev. Al Sharpton as well as 10,s of thousands of White and Black Politicians. In fact the whole Democrat party! Hands outs, instead of a hand up, is the means of keeping Blacks down and economic Slaves! Keeping Blacks as an race of victims instead of a race of achievers is in the best interest of Black preachers and Democrat politicians! Blacks will never be lead to the promise land by hate mongering Preachers like Rev. Wright or by bottom feeding Politician that wants and works to keep Blacks in the Ghetto on Welfare, and voting Democrat!

no, I can't relate to Obama..and he cannot relate to me.
As a white social worker, I am tired of hearing Obama, his wife, and his preacher talk as thought there are only two groups in America....the eternally victimized blacks or the oppressive whites.
What about whites who have fought for civil rights all of their adult lives?
I am angry. Everything this man has done has been portrayed as "presidential" by the media wannabes who are so eager to show they are not racist.
I am not voting Democratic if he gets the nomination. Not because he is black but because I am sick of black racism and faith based initiatives that these so-called black churches have sucked up for 15 or 20 years.
Get out of your fancy office and start getting around Main Street or the Hood.

no, I can't relate to Obama..and he cannot relate to me.
As a white social worker, I am tired of hearing Obama, his wife, and his preacher talk as thought there are only two groups in America....the eternally victimized blacks or the oppressive whites.
What about whites who have fought for civil rights all of their adult lives?
I am angry. Everything this man has done has been portrayed as "presidential" by the media wannabes who are so eager to show they are not racist.
I am not voting Democratic if he gets the nomination. Not because he is black but because I am sick of black racism and faith based initiatives that these so-called black churches have sucked up for 15 or 20 years.
Get out of your fancy office and start getting around Main Street or the Hood.

no, I can't relate to Obama..and he cannot relate to me.
As a white social worker, I am tired of hearing Obama, his wife, and his preacher talk as thought there are only two groups in America....the eternally victimized blacks or the oppressive whites.
What about whites who have fought for civil rights all of their adult lives?
I am angry. Everything this man has done has been portrayed as "presidential" by the media wannabes who are so eager to show they are not racist.
I am not voting Democratic if he gets the nomination. Not because he is black but because I am sick of black racism and faith based initiatives that these so-called black churches have sucked up for 15 or 20 years.
Get out of your fancy office and start getting around Main Street or the Hood.

no, I can't relate to Obama..and he cannot relate to me.
As a white social worker, I am tired of hearing Obama, his wife, and his preacher talk as thought there are only two groups in America....the eternally victimized blacks or the oppressive whites.
What about whites who have fought for civil rights all of their adult lives?
I am angry. Everything this man has done has been portrayed as "presidential" by the media wannabes who are so eager to show they are not racist.
I am not voting Democratic if he gets the nomination. Not because he is black but because I am sick of black racism and faith based initiatives that these so-called black churches have sucked up for 15 or 20 years.
Get out of your fancy office and start getting around Main Street or the Hood.

no, I can't relate to Obama..and he cannot relate to me.
As a white social worker, I am tired of hearing Obama, his wife, and his preacher talk as thought there are only two groups in America....the eternally victimized blacks or the oppressive whites.
What about whites who have fought for civil rights all of their adult lives?
I am angry. Everything this man has done has been portrayed as "presidential" by the media wannabes who are so eager to show they are not racist.
I am not voting Democratic if he gets the nomination. Not because he is black but because I am sick of black racism and faith based initiatives that these so-called black churches have sucked up for 15 or 20 years.
Get out of your fancy office and start getting around Main Street or the Hood.

The argument "hey, we are all guilty, so let's give the guy with the racist, black-power fantasies a break" doesn't quite work.

Spring Rain said:

...you treat Obama differently than you do Hillary or McCain-which means you are guilty of nothing so much as reverse racism; treating someone similarly situated in a totally different, and more gentle manner-in other words, glossing over their shortcomings precisely because they are "black." Sorry, I'm not willing to do that."

First of all, I don't "treat" any of the candidates any way in particular; I do not even know any of them personally. My main goal is to be rid of Bush and his Klan once and for all. If Hillary can do that, then that would be just fine with me. I did like Hillary more, for awhile, because I thought that she could beat the Republican candidate. But, gradually, I came to see that Obama, when contrasted against her, is better. That is why we have primaries, and elections, isn't it? And rhetoric such as yours is what taints and poisons the process.

You are the one making all of the comments about the fact that Obama is black and and that he is an angry black man, yada-yada-yada. If you like Hillary or McCain better, just say so and why; and if you do not like Obama as much, then just say so and why. If it is not his race, then why keep bringing it up?

Of course, this is America; God Bless America; this is how it is; people who don't want a black man for President will come crawling out of the woodwork, with the same tired old stories excuses about why the don't like black people, but that they are still not racist; this has been the plague of our wonderfully blessed America for the past several hundred years.

You're the racist, not I. It is impossible, by its very definition, for me, a white man, to be racist againgst white people, simply because I like the candidate, who happens to be black, best. You are the one who has something to tear down, based purely on race and the color of a man's skin. I am not against Hillary because she is white; I just like Obama better, but if Hillary is the candidate, then I would vote for her over McCain.

It is common knowledge, and everybody knows, that the Republican Party has racist leainings; that it is an organization that is eaten up with racism since the 1960's. They always deny it, but it is the unspoken truth that we all know. I assume that you must be a Republican.

I don't understand why there is such a huge outcry when Rev. Wright says America is damned for killing innocent people, yet no one bats an eye when all those fundamentalist ministers say Katrina and 9/11 are America's punishment for tolerating gay people and abortion. Can someone explain to me what the difference is?

Indeed we have all been there. I daresay not one single person truthfully cay say that he or she never felt embarrassment about something said by parents or ministers. It is a situation common enough that it seems the phrase "bite your tongue" was coined to cover it! I went to a Catholic school, and even there the nuns used to march us off to church in the morning, and if one particular older priest were saying mass that day, we would promptly get the lecture about "you have to make allowances for Father X, because he's old and sees the world differently" as soon as we got back to class. He told us it was a sin to watch MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE (Sunday night; it kept people from going to church). Nobody ever repudiated him, we just "listened between the lines," as the nuns told us to do.

Spring Rain said:

"Obama IS a hidden personality, with an angry black man persona seething within."

What a silly thing to say. There is no evidence to support such and absurd statement, and anyone who would make such an inane remark should not be expected to be taken seriously on anthing else, either.

Oh yes, and by the way, you forgot to mention his middle name, "Hussein."

If you stomp out of church every time the pastor says something dumb, you pretty much have to be an immature belligerent atheist.

So I guess according to the GOP and the Hillbots, you either have to be a perpetually indignant atheist or a cultist who believes literally anything.

Oh and the GOP gets to be the new religious Political Correctness police.

Daniel: I'm please to hear that, because, someone has said something to you that can't understand: Which is, you treat Obama differently than you do Hillary or McCain-which means you are guilty of nothing so much as reverse racism; treating someone similarly situated in a totally different, and more gentle manner-in other words, glossing over their shortcomings precisely because they are "black." Sorry, I'm not willing to do that. If Obama is in the race for President, then he's going to have to face something he has NEVER faced before, a real race, where everything he has done, said and who has had influence over his life WILL BE EXAMINED, CRITICALLY.

Obama IS a hidden personality, with an angry black man persona seething within. If that bothers you, then good, it should. Perhaps it wil get you to think a little more critically about this man that you apparently want to unequivocally accept as President, where his former cocaine snorting/selling days are glossed over (it's for damn sure you wouldn't gloss over Hillary or McCain's cocaine usage-they wouldn't even be in the running at this point if that were the case!), You and other reverse racists are simply willing to give Obama a free pass on EVERYTHING THAT YOU WOULD HOLD A WHITE CANDIDATE ACCOUNTABLE FOR. You apparently believe that Obama cannot be objectively criticized for shortcomings, no matter how racist and intolerable his statements and beliefs may be. Hilary can be criticized for making comments that Obama twists to make racist, but Obama cannot. Hillary could be excorciated had she been snorting cocaine, but Obama's cocaine snorting is absolutely off limits for discussion. It's disgusting the double standard here.

You know, I actually feel sorry for you, and those who think like you (like Sally Quinn). You can't advance on issues involving race until you are willing to accept the fact that minorities should be held to the same standard as everyone else. In this country, we are still a long ways away from that model. Wake up, I wouldn't vote for Obama's personality as dogcatcher, much less president. He's totally wrong for the job.

Hello Daniel. I'm please to hear that, because, someone, me- has dared to say to you what you can't seem to face: that you treat Obama differently than you do Hilary or McCain-which means you are guilty of nothing so much as reverse racism: treating someone similarly situated in a totally different, and more gentle manner.

Obama IS a hidden personality, with an angry black man persona seething within. If that bothers you, then good, it should. Perhaps it wil get you to think a little more critically about this man that you apparently want to unequivocally accept as President, where his former cocaine snorting/selling days are glossed over (it's for damn sure you wouldn't gloss over Hillary or McCain's cocaine usage-they wouldn't even be in the running at this point if that were the case!), You and other reverse racists are simply willing to give Obama a free pass on EVERYTHING THAT YOU WOULD HOLD A WHITE CANDIDATE ACCOUNTABLE FOR. You apparently believe that Obama cannot be objectively criticized for shortcomings, no matter how racist and intolerable his statements and beliefs may be. Hilary can be criticized for making comments that Obama twists to make racist, but Obama cannot. Hillary could be excorciated had she been snorting cocaine, but Obama's cocaine snorting is absolutely off limits for discussion. It's disgusting the double standard here.

You know, I actually feel sorry for you, and those who think like you (like Sally Quinn). You can't advance on issues involving race until you are willing to accept the fact that minorities should be held to the same standard as everyone else. In this country, we are still a long ways away from that model. Wake up, I wouldn't vote for Obama's personality as dogcatcher, much less president. He's totally wrong for the job.

Impressive!!! Finally, a voice of reason concerning this matter. I keep thinking this whole election process is similar to a crowd of junior high kids egging two people to fight. Also, I think people should stay out of other people's bedrooms as well as their churches.

Preachers, by their own admission, are persons of strong belief. I, as a small boy, remember "fire and brimstone" preachers talking against the "Christ-Killers" (Jews), the "N-----s", who were "lusting after the white girls", the evil life of the "Queers". I thought that we had long-since passed into more sane times. I have been wrong. All you have to do is tune in to the Radio and TV "Seed Receivers for God", and you will hear the same old tired crap. No matter what we would like to believe, there is a great number our people who do not tolerate anyone who is "different" and they will use the Bible to prove their belief. The saner heads will assure us that some of some preachers speak for only a few. That is not as correct as we would like to believe. Under the surface, there are a great number who, often through their religion, will never accept anyone who is different from them, as fully-civilized and worthy of equal consideration and rights. It is sad that much of organized religion seems to be such a divisive force in our country.

This snippet is from 2004.

"Some day a female politician will be caught with, well, her pants down. I wonder how America will react to the cuckolded husband, gazing calmly at his cheating politician wife.

Maybe when a man is put through this humiliating ritual, the polls will show that America doesn't like seeing a wronged spouse biting his cheeks at a very public press conference. And when the polls show it doesn't work, I suspect it will end."

I think the author is exactly right. When it comes to a man standing by his philandering wife, it'll be a cold day in hell before we see it happen. Colder still to EXPECT it as some sort of marital right.

YOU'VE BEEN PROPERLY SERVED & FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE!

Att: Sally Quinn, Onfaith or onreligion, WashingtonPost, Newsweek, Ny.Times, N.Y. Post, Et al

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/fareed_zakaria/2008/03/stuck_in_the_iraq_loop.html

Here is Moderator/Stockholder , a/k/a Mr. Fareed ZAKARiA of 'POST-GLOBAL" a part & or Division of the 'Perps' mentioned above or having a quasi nexis/connection, Ms. Sally Quinns Todays Post.

Please do not be in denial that ye recieved this NOTICE to "cease & Decist " , replace certain WORDS etc.. as told ye & others, so many times.

Thanka Shame!

♥.J
♥♥..O
♥♥♥...Z
♥♥♥♥....E
♥♥♥♥♥....V
♥♥♥♥♥♥.....Z.us

And what do the Clintons have to do with it? The issue is Barack Obama has belonged to a church for the past 20 years that celebrates Farrakhan, claims AIDS was invented by the government to exterminate blacks, that the USA deserved the 911 attacks, ("the chickens are coming home to roooooost") and that Israel is a terrorist state. He CHOSE this church and this pastor and he stuck with it for 20 years. First he said he wasn't aware of the remarks, and that he wasn't present when they took place. Cmon! Are we supposed to believe in 20 years time that he didn't understand the politics of his own mentor and spiritual advisor? And this is the guy were supposed to trust because of his great judgement. People worship in places where they feel comfortable and where they can be themselves. Why would someone seek spirituality in a place that doesn't fit with their own outlook on life? We're not talking about a cranky uncle who visits once a month and makes a racist remark at the dinner table. You don't choose your relatives, but you do choose your place of worship and your spiritual advisor. I think Obama's choice is clear...he's been making the same choice for 20 years.

Barack Obama's identity remains a mystery to me. I didn't hear him explain his relationship to black liberation theology, black nationalism, or the other central tenets of the church he chose and has attended for 20 years. And in his speech he completely sold out his grandmother, whose only fault, as I remember from his autobiography, was a fear of being robbed again at a dangerous bus stop. Barack's equating her with Reverend Wright seems a tacky rhetorical ploy.

I understand the appeal of the salvation story that if we all vote for him, there'll be unity and we'll all get along, because everybody will go to a new school, which will eliminate the achievement gap, and he'll beat up the corporations and make them bring back all those good manufacturing jobs that left New Jersey about 1959, so everybody will be in the middle class, but his whole schtick is pie in the sky. It may feed hope through November, but will just be another losing lottery ticket a year from now. The responsible alternative to Barack's Cloud 9 is not cynicism, but realism.

Anyone remember Jerry Falwell's remarks after September 11th attacks. Didn't he blame the U.S. for being attacked. Where was the outrage then??

As someone once said, it's the economy stupid. Figure out a way to get out of Iraq and channel the war funds back into the United States for the citizens.

Stop throwing the red herrings around, and media darlings, give it a rest we are weary of your beating these non stories into the ground.

Rev Jeremiah A.Wright's hate speech was as racist and un-christian as I have ever heard. For Barack Obama to consider this man his "spiritual Advisor" and father-like figure, it truely dissappointed and now disinfranchised me from his candidacy. That is not the "Change" I am looking for.

Dear "The Dude" - Please provide the verbatim accounts in which Wright "exhort[ed] his parishoners to hate jews, whites, and the US, time and time again."

thanks.

PS - if you can't find those passages, please stop saying this.

This was a nice attempt to deflect. Talk about the kitchen sink strategy . . . let's see if we can get people asking if the the Clintons are anti-semites.
The question people have to ask is whether they want somebody who went to this church and listened to this hate monger for 20 years leading the country. He married them, baptized their kids, was admittedly a huge influence on his book and political maturity. Obama either sincerely agreed with the philosophy, or he didn't really agree and hypocrtically went along for political /social gain. Either way, I question his judgment. If you were objective, you would, too.

I could not have said it better. This sums it all up. We have all been there and we have all experienced these uncomfortable conversations, comments or jokes at some time or another, Like you, we were sometimes appalled but never enough to denounce, disown or remove from our lives. I have been saying for years that until we are all ready to have open and really honest conversations about race in America, we can never really heal and move forward.

So... there wasnt a church in all of Chicago where he could go where the N word wasnt used? Where "God D*** America" wasnt uttered? Where blaming America for 9-11 wasnt said in the pulpit?

In 20 years, he had no choice?

cmon. Lets be serious here.

Oh.. cmon!

Mrs. Quinn, why the double standard?

Remember Trent Lott, and his unsuccessful contrition tour? Bush's trip to Bob Jones U.? Don Imus, whom Obama insisted should have been fired for his inflammatory comment? The list goes on. The outrage in the elite opinion makers of the above instances to be fired or removed, or to distance, is absent in Mr. Obama's case. In the above cases, forgiveness and contrition was not accepted. How can Mrs. Quinn call herself an objective reporter, by glossing over this, and displaying zero journalistic curiousity on the issue as a whole, but only in the few details that present Mr. Obama in the most positive light?

Athena:
" I don't want a guy in the White House who attends a racist church."

So I take it that you won't be voting for John McCain, who has called Rev. Ron Parsley his "spiritual advisor." Rev. Parsley has called for a Crusade against Islam, as well as the usual suspects of gays, liberals, etc. One of his more famous quotes is: “I came to incite a riot! Man your battle stations. Ready your weapons.” (One wants to assume he’s speaking metaphorically, but it’s not entirely clear.)

--------------------------------------

Dunno what your point is here Athena.

ZZim

It is absolutely incredible to me that this issue has created such a fuss. Does this signal a complete vetting of all pastors... including Clinton and McCain. I should hope not. with the ecdcomy plunging, Iraq in turmoil and healthcare not affordable to millions of Americans... this is the best topic that we can come up with?

Here's a real news flash... Obama is not perfect! Does anyone really think that if these comments were attributed to McCain pastor, or Clinton's pastor that they would be taken so seriously? No, and they would be dismissed as smear politics. Let's talk about ideas and solutions... not race and pretend that it is a real issue!

Obama handled the situation with courage, grace and humility.
He has my vote. Period.

It is absolutely incredible to me that this issue has created such a fuss. Does this signal a complete vetting of all pastors... including Clinton and McCain. I should hope not. with the ecdcomy plunging, Iraq in turmoil and healthcare not affordable to millions of Americans... this is the best topic that we can come up with?

Here's a real news flash... Obama is not perfect! Does anyone really think that if these comments were attributed to McCain pastor, or Clinton's pastor that they would be taken so seriously? No, and they would be dismissed as smear politics. Let's talk about ideas and solutions... not race and pretend that it is a real issue!

It is absolutely incredible to me that this issue has created such a fuss. Does this signal a complete vetting of all pastors... including Clinton and McCain. I should hope not. with the ecdcomy plunging, Iraq in turmoil and healthcare not affordable to millions of Americans... this is the best topic that we can come up with?

Here's a real news flash... Obama is not perfect! Does anyone really think that if these comments were attributed to McCain pastor, or Clinton's pastor that they would be taken so seriously? No, and they would be dismissed as smear politics. Let's talk about ideas and solutions... not race and pretend that it is a real issue!

ATT: Moderator/Owner/Partner/ShareHolder

Ms. Sally QUINN, Editor D. WATERS, of This Washington/Newsweek blogg, et al;

Here is a Link To mr. Shriver's Blogg:

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/religionfromtheheart/2008/03/the_flareup_over_the_hateful.html

Please see @ line; March.18th.08.Today:2:25P.M.!

Thanka Shame!

You have been Given a Cease & Desist Order on This Blogg.

This is a Notice To Stop & Restore & not Prejudice Us, contrary to what your own profession is supposed to MAGNIFY & Make Honorable. Includes the LAW Of the Land! Ignorance Is still NO-EXCUSE in this great Nation, CYBER SPACE & or REAl SPACE !

Supporters and non-supporters of Obama should ask themselves why he is running for the presidency. Clinton and McCain rank above him on many objective measures of fitness for the office.

But he does rank above both of them on one measure of a campaign - his fans are the subject of more jokes.

Sally--I listened to both your before-and-after comments and to Senator Obama's speech itself. I applaud both, and I wish this "trial" were over. I have much more to say after reading as many of your other readers' entries as I could at one sitting, but, in still characteristic Evie-Babes '63 fashion, I will make only one statement in your defense: you WOULD know if Jesus bit you in the ass!

I am really baffled that you brought the Clintons into this.

So to sum up....

it's no big deal that Wright has made numerous comments like "God Damn America" and Obama has been going to him for 20 years, because Jesse Jackson has made asinine comments in the past and Bubba called him in for damage control errr....spiritual guidance after Monica blew him

and Sally's not grasping at straws here just because she's a died in the wool lib, because her Dad was a Republican and friends w/Goldwater

See, it all makes perfect sense.

My pastor and my assistant pastor (I am Episcopalian) have markedly different political views on a variety of issues that are far different from mine. I dare say, for example,there are many Roman Catholics who do not subscribe to the Church's views, even teachings, on a number of controversial social and political issues, from abortion to war. John F. Kennedy made it clear that his decisions would be based on secular considerations, not religious orthodoxy.

I am a member of my church because I find it a source of spiritual understanding, fellowship, and support. A minister, priest, rabbi, imam, etc. who leads the congregation in providing these things is what I seek. I can put up with a lot of differences in political views between me and a minister who brings me closer to understanding the love of God.

Dear Spring Rain

Your entire post sounds like disguised anti-black racism. Is it? If so, why not just admit it? You are anonymous here. No one will know it is you, if you are ashamed of it.

I was actually pretty offended by your whole summary of the situation.

This Is LAST NOTICE TO CEASE & DESIST Before Trial!:

Att: EDiTOR Of This WAPO BLOGG, et al:

You have have 30-minutes to restore my Constitutional right to FREEDOM of PRESS, SPEACH & RELIGION, includes this Blogg/Internet.

Please restore the WORDS (which ye devilishly black-listed & Others) :

S
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A
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(S)

S
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AND The OTHERS! YOU KNOW!

YOU ARE Openly Committing "A HUMAN-WRONG Against A HUMAN RIGHT"

Becarefull how ye tread!

30-minutes!

Ps: This & ye evilizing behaviors is been captured on other medium.

SHAMe SHAME "Washington Post", N.Y. TiMES, N.Y.POST, MSNBC, Channel-7 N.Y.C.!

IF Not, LAW SUITE IS COMMING, as WARNED ye so many times!

By:

♥.J
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♥♥♥♥....E
♥♥♥♥♥....V
♥♥♥♥♥♥.....Z.us

Yes we all have relatives who make rascist comments. However, I don't pick my relatives as Obama picked Rev. Wright and continued to pick him for 20 years. I will not walk out on a relative, you work to convince your relative that their views are incorrect and hopefully they change. I have walked out on preachers, which is what Obama should have done at the 1st hint of rascism.

As for Billy Grahm, I'm a fan of his. However, I wouldn't be if he made those same anti-semetic jokes from the pulpit. You point me to a sermon he gave that comes anywhere near what Wright said and maybe I'll think the comparison apt. In addition, the comments were made in 1973, I'm guessing some things have changed since then. Wright made his comments in 2003.

It doesn't excuse what Billy said. At the same time, he wasn't exhorting his parishoners to hate jews. Wright did exhort his parishoners to hate jews, whites, and the US, time and time again.

I've read a lot of comments here about Wright's so-called racism. If he were such a racist, why did he regularly welcome white congregations to attend his church - and arrange for their transportation there? If he were so racist, why is Rev. John Thomas, the white president of United Church of Christ (which is affiliated with Wright's church), saying "[Wright's] been a wonderful friend to white pastors, and he's gifted the organization financially,". . ."That charge is false"? Is this white reverend racist, too? Seriously, stop taking the snippets of information strung together as news at face value and do your own research and investigation. We're living in two worlds in America - one black, one white - and Rev. Wright speaks to a world that feels marginalized, frustrated, and hopeless - with the sub-standard education in their communities, the lack of economic investment, the refusal to be seen as part of the wider community, etc. This is a great opportunity for people to come together and understand these feelings. You can accept the media manipulation or you can reach out and learn for yourself. Choose the latter.

Does anyone remember Ann Landers? When I was a teenager and didn't read much else in the newspaper, I always read her column, I guess, because by the standards of those days, it was a little racey.

She often had people write in with boy friend trouble or girl friend trouble, or all kinds of friendship, relationship, and family problems. And one of her most often repeated words of advice was "drop'em like a hot potato."

But that was never very practical advice.

It is not so easy to get a new brother, or a new mother, or a new boy friend, girl friend, husband or wife or son or daughter. Sometimes you have deep emotional ties to people that you cannot really control, much less cut. Relationships can no more, than feelings and emotions, be simply turned on and off, like flipping a light switch.

When you love someone, you take the bad that goes along with them. Take Thomas Jefferson, for example; we now know some things about him, that make him, possibly not such a good guy after all. But we don't just throw out his legacy with the trash; we hold onto what we always admired about him, and accept that he, too, was a flawed man.

In the case of Barak Obama, people, especially white people, are looking for ways to tear him down. The are holding him up to a higher standard than they would hold a whilte person.

If his wife has not been proud of America, she is automatically condemned for being unpatriotic. But patriotism is a complcate thing. I think I understand what she meant. I am not proud of America, as it is in the world today; that does not make me unpatriotic; that makes me a realist.

I also detest the greeting "God Bless America;" it is silly and simple-minded; it is almost always used in a cynical and disingenuous way, to put a good spin on ones own motivations, without really standing for anything good or doing anything good; in this, it is taking the Lord's name in vain, and I never hear a politician say it without getting a little heartburn.

First Barak Obama is a Muslim; then he is has a Pastor that is not "Christian" enough. Which is it? It cannot be both. Muslims do not usually attend church, do they? Which is he guilty of, being a Muslim, or having a radical Christian Pastor?

This is all just the very, very heavy baggage of race in America. The words of Barak Obama's Pastor are not relevant to the real problems, which are the War in Iraq, the political isolation of America in the world today, the sagging economy, taxation policies, health care, and other "real life" problems.

This is all just red-herring to snag the candidacy of a very good black man.

To “Sally Quinn is a moralistic hypocrite & snob” - Using your own terminology, would YOU “know Jesus if he bit you in the ass?” By the way – are you a Christian? you sure don’t sound like one.

To “The Issue is Obama’s Judgment” – you say, “He and his campaign should have known from day one of undertaking this campaign that Wright would be a problem in mainstream America.”
Actually, they did know that and Obama publicly distanced himself from certain views of his pastor at the beginning of his candidacy. Nobody was paying much attention then – perhaps because they didn’t expect Obama to ever become the frontrunner.

To Alance: You say, “To deny people in Florida a chance to participate in the Democratic primary is also deeply offensive.”

Of course, you know Obama had nothing to do with that, right?

To Daniel Oturner, you say: “I did what I was trained as a Christian to do, I withheld judgment went to the full text, read a number of sermons of Rev. Wright, read the church newsletter, had some friends describe the ministry of that Church in South Chicago….”

I’m no longer Christian, but people like you make me feel good that I once was. I wish there were more like you taking part in this discussion.

Thanks for a thoughtful article..

What this is about, is BO getting too close to the top office, and they're all attacking now. I hope that he wasn't naive enough to think that this wouldn't have happened.

JM and HC should jump on the same ticket together at this point. As for me, I think i'll sit this one out...

To DD: Precisely why thinking Democrats have no business even considering Obama as a Presidential candidate. I have said all along, Obama is a hidden personality, what you are seeing is a facade, that below that facade is a seething, angry black man, who is keeping part of his personality hidden in order to get elected. And so people have to ask themselves, is that what they want in a Presidential candidate? Someone not only totally inexperienced in the ways of government, Washington and foreign affairs, who has never really faced a challenging run for anything in his life, until now, who is reneging on all his campaign promises to conduct some sort of noble, friendly non-mud-slinging campaign, but someone who has racial "issues" among other hidden issues, that could manifest themselves in very inappropriate and negative ways if he was put in a positive as supreme Commander in Chief. No. Obama should not, and never will be the right candidate for President. It has absolutely nothing to do with race, and everything to do with personality/psychological fitness for the job. Obama is no real politician. And in order to survive in Washington and prosper, you gotta be a skillful politician. You gotta like people. He doesn't really like people, in general, and someone like that has no business being president.

The best presidents have been skillful politicians, and really skillful politicians are people-persons-that's not Obama-at all.

It's just that people are so fed up with Bush/Cheney that they have an almost desperate desire to latch on to anyone who appears radically different from that disaster. Obama is a fluke and an anomaly. Those who support Obama clearly are not seeing the forest for the trees, and the trees ARE obscuring people's vision here, most assuredly.

And that's where Ms. Sally comes in, she wields her influence at the Post to subliminally influence people to vote for Obama, to just overlook all these many warning signs, these danger signals that tell us Obama is not giving us the 411 on what he is all about. He makes her feel good about being that upper crust white society matron to support a black man for president. So she will forgive him, anything-even when he is powerfully influenced by people who have dangerously misguided ideals, tossing it off as nothing. Sally Quinn IS the supreme hypocrite. It's disgusting, really.

Blacks need to start taking some personal responsibility for high rate of high school drop out, sexual promiscuity, children born out of wedlock, , absence of male parenting/role models, drugs, crime, incarceration, AIDS, and lack of personal responsibility instead of playing the victim hood game and blaming everyone else for their plight! Until that time there will always be hate mongers & race baiter,s to use them and profit from their plight like the Rev. Wright, Rev. Jessie Jackson and Rev. Al Sharpton as well as 10,s of thousands of White and Black Politicians. In fact the whole Democrat party! Hands outs, instead of a hand up, is the means of keeping Blacks down and economic Slaves! Keeping Blacks as an race of victims instead of a race of achievers is in the best interest of Black preachers and Democrat politicians! Blacks will never be lead to the promise land by hate mongering Preachers like Rev. Wright or by bottom feeding Politician that wants and works to keep Blacks in the Ghetto on Welfare, and voting Democrat!

"If any white had belonged or attended even one sermon of a church that spews that kind of hate they would be vilified by everyone, and rightly so."

Gary, please go out to http://www.tucc.com/ and view the videos there. One is a talk by a white woman who is a long-time member of the Trinity UCC.

Sally, The examples of pastoral imperfections you cite in your piece are both blatantly racist and anti-Semetic. Although incidendiary in style, none of Pastor Wright's comments rise to this level of offense, in my opinion. By placing his comments, and this incident, on the same rhetorical plane, you elevate it to a whole new -- and unwarranted -- offense level.

There can be no Doubt that Obama and his wife are both Racist & American haters. After watching videos of their preacher I have lost all respect for Obama and anyone the attended that Church or still supports Obama. If any white had belonged or attended even one sermon of a church that spews that kind of hate they would be vilified by everyone, and rightly so. Michell was being honest when she said for the first time in her life she was proud of American. Because for all of her life she has hated American and most of its White Citizens! Obama belonged to that church for 20 years yet he does not share those views? That is beyond belief! How can he expect any one intelligence enough to vote, even a left wing loony to be that stupid? We have to get away from this double standard where it is ok for blacks to do things way over the line esp. ones that would be be President! It is very scary to think that someone that supported that preacher and went to that hate filled church for 20 years may be President! After watching those videos I can very easy see where Obama may well be a Muslin with a secret agenda for this Nation when elected! One thing for sure it is hard to see how anyone that listen to the venom spewed out from that so called preacher for 20 years can be a Christen! If Obama gets elected after this he will have did a better con job on the American public than any President in History even better than the Moron in the WH now.

Very well-balanced article about the complexities of human beings and the meaning of loyalty even when our loved ones fail us and others. Most of you who are so quick to judge show an incredible unwillingness to address/listen to difficult issues about what it means to care for another human being even after you recognize that they're flawed. Here's a man (Obama) with no father, no mother or grandparents and no sibling with whom he's shared the same mother/father. Here's a man who partially raised himself during his high school years by being raised by his white grandparents with his mother abroad.His devotion to being a community leader in his early twenties and his devotion to his christian faith through service is undeniable. Clearly his mentor didn't make him a hateful person...he's the only candidate who has promoted unity. He could love his grandparents regardless of their reservations about blacks, he could understand his father regardless of his abandoning him as an infant.The point is that we Americans need to be more of a nation where committment means something whether that's in a marriage (another complex relationship), in raising our children, investing in their education, staying at a job, etc.What kind of man would Obama or any of you be to abandon an old preacher who he's admitted is too full of hate to see that the America of today is changing and has changed from the America he the preacher grew up in... I'd love to hear what many of your parents say about blacks (and vice versa) and indeed what many of you say. I don't think you all would tell your children or neices to abandon you but to excuse your hateful remarks.For a man without a father, this preacher has been a mentor to him before the limelight...for him to throw him under the bus would be beyond disloyal and very much a political strategy. He should condemn him and denounce him for his remarks which is what Obama has done but Obama is correct to make this a learning opportunity for the Pastor and the nation. This is what makes him a true leader specifically because of the manner he's dealt with this heated issue.

What Obama has confirmed with his Candidacy is all politicians be they White, Black, Democrat or Republican will say or do anything for money to get votes or for votes. The only honest Politician in the race was R. Paul. The rest puts, self number one, Party second, and lobbyist third. The best interest of this Nation or American citizens is not on their priority list. We only exist at election time to be lied to, spun, or whatever it takes to get out votes! In the final analysis Obama is just another lying Bottom feeding Politician!

What Obama has confirmed with his Candidacy is all politicians be they White, Black, Democrat or Republican will say or do anything for money to get votes or for votes. The only honest Politician in the race was R. Paul. The rest puts, self number one, Party second, and lobbyist third. The best interest of this Nation or American citizens is not on their priority list. We only exist at election time to be lied to, spun, or whatever it takes to get out votes! In the final analysis Obama is just another lying Bottom feeding Politician!

Oh , now retired . Well I guess it is settled then .

sally, maureen dowd and other obamanation writers,
be honest. show some intellectual integrity. own up. and don't belittle your readers.

obama was given the golden chance by largely white voters. and he blew it! period. and it was shameful/telling of him to drag clinton and ferraro into his speech.

in search of his black identity, obama tiltled too far against his white self. while doing so, he manipulated the powerful chicago church to counter the "ain't black enough" allegations and win the state legislature. now he finds his old friends dispensable. pity. and telling.

so much for judgement when his own judgement about his friends is so despicable.

and coming right after the spitzer episode, this just underlines just why voters should NEVER believe politicans who sound too good to be true!

Ms. Quinn,

I used to enjoy reading your articles, but after this one I have lost all respect for what you have to say. By your reasoning, it’s ok to tolerate this kind of speech.

What the pastor said and did not say is irrelevant. What is relevant is Obama’s judgment. Frankly, the more I learn about the man, the more I detest him and cringe at the idea of him occupying the White House. It makes me wonder who else he’s friends with and what kind of other seedy characters make up his inner circle.

Obama sat in W’s pew for over 20 years, listened to his sermons, solicited his advice in all matters public and private. And all of a sudden that is not supposed to impact him. W married him and baptized his daughters. Apparently Obama thought that his daughters should look up to a hater and be proud of him. For shame!

What Mrs. Obama said earlier (“the first time she’s been proud of this country”) is now not surprising in the least. What I also don’t understand is the amount of hatred and contempt the Obama family seems to have for this country. I believe the only reason Obama has not said anything embarrassing (like the stuff that comes out of his wife’s mouth) is that he is a little smarter than her. This man (Obama), his ideology, and contempt have no place in the White House.

AMEN Sally. God Bless you.

Well gee, Sally, here we go again, yet another hypocritical blog from the supreme Hamptons society gossip-mongering judgmental maven! It wasn't enough that you broke up Ben Bradlee's marriage and then had the gall to pass judgment in a very vicious, catty, arrogant and ultimately just a very unclassy, unknowledgeable and undignfied way on Silda Spitzer's public appearance with her husband on his resignation, which said absolutely nothing whatsoever other than than she appeared publicly with him on that day, oh no. Now you're trying to get people to overlook Obama's pastor's comments, because "oh we all say and do things that may be misinterpreted, or seem hypocritical, one time or another." What?

But wait a minute, what about what happened to ARUN GANDHI? Where was your solicitousness then? If we've all said things we've regretted, why was it that you went to such pains to get Arun Gandhi fired for remarks that I and others felt were in NO WAY anti-Semitic, particularly considering their source, but were thoughtful words about the state of Israel and its policies-OH NO, SALLY FEIGNED TERRIBLE SHOCK, AND THEN SHE DETERMINEDLY SET ABOUT PUTTING THINGS IN MOTION WHICH EVENTUALLY LED TO GANDHI'S FORCED RESIGNATION.

You know Sally, I just returned from India, and Arun Gandhi's son was protesting in Mumbai while I was there, about what happened to him, a situation where words which were in NO WAY intended to be anti-Semitic WERE INTERPRETED TO BE SO BY YOU, AND THEN OF COURSE THE CONTROVERSY SPREAD. YOU, THE IMPERIOUS ONE, DECIDED YOU HAD TO GO OVERBOARD AND MAKE A HUGE DEAL OUT OF NOTHING, WHICH LED TO HIS RESIGNATION.

So, if you are sooo forgiving of Obama's pastor, who has made many many remarks (not just one) over the years in several controversial areas, why was it that you didn't extend the same solicitousness, the same understanding to Arun Gandhi's remarks, which as I've said, did not strike any reasonable person as being anything but thoughtful words on his part.

But this is the US. In Britain, Gandhi's remarks wouldn't have caused a reaction in any way. Why, Prince Harry was just quoted in the press recently as saying "he didn't particularly like England"- No one criticized or castrated him for holding such an opinion, even though he is second in line for the throne. But you Sally, you are the SUPREME HYPROCRITE. You obviously support Obama, so anything he or anyone affiliated with him says, no matter how extreme or controversial, will be smoothed over. SALLY WILL GRANT YOU A PASS, OBAMA, BECAUSE SHE LIKES YOU AND SUPPORTS YOUR RUN FOR THE PRESIDENCY! BUT IF SHE DIDN'T, WATCH OUT! BECAUSE SALLY GETS TO USE THE POST ANY LITTLE WAY THAT SALLY WANTS, IT JUST DEPENDS ON HER LITTLE WHIM OF THE DAY!

God ONLY knows what the Post is thinking by giving this constant unremediated platform to spout your little coddled society matron views!

Ms. Quinn, your comments are so very true, real and poignant. I am a black American who has been able to see the changes in American society over the years. I, unfortunantly, as a Southerner remember the slurs, names, injustices, and all other evidences of racial prejudice. Likewise I have see prejudice in the black community. It is ugly no matter the community. But to your central point, we all have preachers, parents, relatives, friends, and acquaintances who say and yes even believe some not so nice things about others. That fact, however, does not and should not require shunning those people. For all of those who are criticizing Senator Obama for his pastors' words, look at your own circle and tell me is you agree with every word that comes out of their mouths. I know the answer and so do those criticizing. In the words from the Bible, just as Jesus admonished the men who were about to stone the harlot, He said, "let him who has not sinned throw the first stone." And with that they all went away. I say the same thing today. If there is one among us who has nothing but politically correct friends, family and loved ones - let him or her criticize Senator Obama for attending Reverend Wright's church otherwise look at the stye in one's own eye before attempting to remove the stye from another's eye. Thank you for your most insightful article.

I think the Rev.Wright incident does make one question how Obama has handled other race related issues, such as how he addressed the comments of Hillary Clinton about Martin Luther King Jr. and President Johnson. Let me explain.

When Obama decided to run for President so soon after being elected to the Senate, he said, he was frustrated with the legislative process in the Senate, and felt as President, he's have more influence to get more done.
When Hillary's Martin Luther King Jr. statement MIRRORED that idea, that you need a strong, experienced President to deal with the narrow minded bulldogs in the Senate and Congress, to get tough bills passed, how did Senator Obama handle the criticism?

He COULD have handled it honorably, in the tone of his platform of "unity" and "change" and he COULD have responded in a manner like "Obviously, this country has changed, that this nation, is open minded to a black president. This is the time not to be distracted by things that could divide us. We need to continue on coming together, to make change happen. Martin Luther King Jr.'s idea's did face opposition from racist minds in the Senate and Congress, and it's true,with President Johnson's influence, Martin Luther King's Dreams did become reality through law, but this is the Year 2008, and I intend to be the candidate that incorporates great ideas, bringing people together, AND the power of the presidency, to make change happen".

But, he had a choice, to honor his stated ideals and platform, or to give in to the urge to twist the comment, and use it as an opportunity, to guide people to an ill intended conclusion. He had an opportunity, to show that he believes there's enough "change", for everyone around the entire table. Instead, he read into it, very intentionally, ill will, toward Martin Luther King Jr., and King's message of change and unity.

~"Obama responded immediately to the Clinton interview, saying she had offended people who believed she had diminished King's role (Politico, Ben Smith)
~"...Senator Clinton made an unfortunate remark, an ill-advised remark, about King and Lyndon Johnson,...she, I think, offended some folks who felt that somehow diminished King's role in bringing about the Civil Rights Act." Obama (Politico, Ben Smith).
~“There’s a groundswell of reaction to these comments - and not just these latest comments but really a pattern, or a series of comments that we’ve heard for several months,” she said. “Folks are beginning to wonder: Is this really an isolated situation or is there something bigger behind all of this?” Obama spokeswoman Candice Tolliver
~Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr.-"Regrettably, they have resorted to distasteful and condescending language that appeals to our fears rather than our hopes. I sincerely hope that they'll turn away from such reactionary, disparaging rhetoric."

Obama, the leader, the uniter, agent of change, could have said, "this is another example of how important it is to have a leader that can get an intended message across correctly..."

But instead, he played on the sensitivities of minorities, and did not care one bit about what Clinton meant to Blacks or the things that she did to earn that affection. He just took what she said, tied ill intent on it, and sold her down the river. I think that was so manipulative, and offensive, to ANY person who has defended black/equal rights.

I think he demonstrated, that he is NOT truly, interested in change, or unity, and will take advantage of a situation, if it benefits him, even at the cost of sacrificing his own platform, and ideals. I WISH, he would have responded, like a leader, who was interested in Change and Unity. NOT for Hillary's sake, but for this country's sake. In a time where businesses will not deal with bad employees who happen to be part of a minority group, for fear of being accused of discrimination, creating an atmosphere of preferential/unequal treatment in some cases, I think it's important that the self proclaimed "agent" of change, hold everyone, including himself, to the same standard, and not "use" an opportunity like that to get ahead. He KNEW what Hillary meant from his own frustration in not passing his Nuclear Legislation. It seems like a common sense thing, that citizens should be notified when nuclear waste shows up in ground drinking water, just as civil rights seems like a common sense thing. But, even he acknowledged that being President, would give him the influence he felt he didn't have in the Senate, that would make a difference. So why was it wrong for HIllary to point that out? Why, did he intentionally jump on the wagon, to read ill intent into an observation, he's experienced first hand, as a hard reality of making ideas become law?

With that said, consider these words out of Obama's book:
Black politicians discovered what white politicians had known for a very long time: that race-baiting could make up for a host of limitations. Younger leaders, eager to make a name for themselves, upped the ante, peddling conspiracy theories all over tow -the Koreans were funding the Klan, Jewish doctors were injecting black babies with AIDS. It was a shortcut to fame, if not always fortune; like sex or violence on TV, black rage always found a ready market.
Source: Dreams from My Father, by Barack Obama, p.186 Aug 1, 1996
Is it just me? Or does some of that paragraph sound like Rev. Wright? Is it reasonable, to think, Rev. Wright had some strange personality disorder that on most days he was positive, and spoke of uniting the nation, but on rare strange days felt comfortable spewing hate to his congregation with no worries of outraging them? Obviously, the congregation, as a whole, is familiar with this side of Wright, and I do not believe Obama, knowing the man over 20 years, didn't know the mentality of this man. It leads one to wonder about if Obama truly believes in anything he's solicited, or if it's all rhetoric, that the man has created, to gain the trust of the American people, just to get into the White House.

We all can relate? No, dummy. Most of "us" dont associate with racists, anti-semites, anti-americans. If you do, get the hell out of the country and go back to your cave or dirt covered street. You fail.

Oh, please! You certainly CAN walk away from and refuse to associate with people, even family, who are full of hate and venom.

Go back to your tea parties, Sally.

"We all can relate to Obama's dilemma." I don't relate so this doesn't apply to me or, probably, millions of others.

Your analysis and historical evidence to put Barack Obama's situation in context at this time is nothing short of brilliant. In fact, Obama's case becomes a mere footnote to the gravity of offenses committed by those examples you presented in your response to the irrational charges made against him.

There are many ways to judge the authenticity of spiritual views. In this case, I would invoke the test of "actual proof". This is a test whether the spiritual practices and guidance leads to better lives here on earth for the practitioners. It is based on a old principle that if the gods do not want humans to be happy, why are the worthy of worship.

According to Obama's speech today, we are to understand the emanations of black anger that were expressed in Rev. Wright's pulpit, even if that anger leads to dysfunctional results for the congregation instead of condemning them.

In my opinion, this fails the actual proof test of religion.

....Once again, proof, that religion IS the problem!

I am a former two-term elected official, hopefully of some local consequence, but of no national consequence.

Prior to running for office I had a relatively intimate relationship with a spiritual teacher, and Indian Guru, whose talks were audio and videotaped. He married me and my wife, also on video. His topics were often out of the Christian norm. On occasion, quite far from the Christian norm.

Though this is an important relationship for me, its not one that defined me or my public service, or altered the seriousness with which I both took and executed my oath of office.

I can easily imagine how images from those videos could be used to smear me. I have a dear friend and close supporter who worked hard to get me elected and re-elected, and she had a very difficult time understanding that relationship. Fortunately, she found out about it after I left public office.

I was an outstanding public official. I was re-elected with 60% of the vote, and during my re-election the special interests who I had took on, outspent me four to one, trying to unseat me.

They did all the usual things including character assassination, guilt by association, smears, and they even cooked up a scandal that dissolved quickly under media scrutiny.

During that time my supporters, believed in me, stood by me, funded me.

Obama is defined by his long public record, as I was defined by mine. If you dont' support his public record, then of course you shouldn't support him. But if you do support his public record, you should support his candidacy.

I support Obama, and I do so with the same courage and conviction used by those who supported me.

Accepting Arab money is wrong how? You might want to be a little more specific, unless of course, Arab just says it all.

Accepting Arab money is wrong how? You might want to be a little more specific, unless of course, Arab just says it all.

Bravo ... a well-written article making a very valid point. Even if you categorically disagree with what Rev. Wright was saying, there's no reason that these are the beliefs of Obama as well (to the contrary, he has denied them).

I kind of wish that the author had displayed the same sense of forgiveness and disassociating the sin from the sinner when she spoke of Mrs. Spitzer ...

"now retired"? How about 20 years "mentor, spirtual leader, uncle"...

Those two share the same opinion about America. Also look his wife "now pride" comment. They are all in the same boat.

Hillary will never make known her tax information.

Shell will STALL and STALL. Just wait!!!!!!!

The post below by Michael English articulates exactly how I feel about the situation and bears repeating. Thanks to the author of the post, Michael English.

Posted on March 18, 2008 02:14

Michael English:
Reading your article about Barack Obama's association with Jeremiah Wright, I am struck by how little people are willing to consider the possibility that Obama chose to be around Wright- not because of Wright's often outrageous opinions, but despite them.

I myself have often been in situations where I have gained the friendship of people who harbor opinions I detest. Being a member of a family with mixed Polish/Jewish/Italian/Scottish-American descent, I have the victims of Hitler on one side of my family and the captain of an Elizabethan slave ship on the other.

I spent three years caring for an elderly woman whose isolation in DC was greatly exacerbated by her patently obvious racism. Helping her die in her daughter's living room instead of in a cockroach-infested hole in DC was the first really worthwhile thing I accomplished after Mom died, and it was the signal event which ended five years of nearly relentless depression after Mom’s death. Sure, I wish Pauline had been more perfect than she was, but love does not require perfection, and neither did I.

Ergo, I have no patience for the idea that Barack Obama was somehow obligated to stab Jeremiah Wright as he stood there in the pews mouthing his un-American rhetoric (just about the only thing that would satisfy his critics, apparently, given that Obama has repeatedly disavowed any support for Wright's more controversial remarks and associations, and released him from any role in his campaign!). Obama befriended Wright as he was coming to grips with his place in an unfamiliar city and trying to establish some form of religious identity. It was only natural that he would gravitate toward a charismatic black preacher working in the area, and it was only natural that a charismatic black preacher in Chicago would hold many of the radical opinions that Wright holds.

That is, in many ways, unfortunate. It would certainly be more messianic of Obama if he were somehow able to immediately read Wright's mind the moment they met, scan him for bad ideas, and convince Wright of their wrongness before the reverend had even opened his mouth to introduce himself. But contrary to what his critics sarcastically maintain, Obama never claimed to be anything but human. I would guess he befriended Wright long before it became clear that Wright was, in some ways, a radical nut.

But when it did become clear, Obama did the only thing a truly honorable man could do. He tried his level best to maintain his friendship without supporting Wright's stupidity. He tried to take the good out of the bad, instead of storming away spluttering in scorn and disgust. That is generally considered a sign of maturity in a man, and yet now Obama is being castigated for it.

Meanwhile, John McCain cheerfully accepts endorsement from a president who this past month authorized the torture of prisoners; and from a reverend (John Hagee) who is on the record as saying that Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment against New Orleans for harboring a vibrant homosexual community.

No, I will not condemn Obama for his relationship, such as it is, with Jeremiah Wright. Obama has done his duty in regards to separating his friendship for Wright with any association or endorsement of Wright's bad opinions. That is more than I can say for his opponent.

The post below by Michael English articulates exactly how I feel about the situation and bears repeating. Thanks to the author of the post, Michael English.

Posted on March 18, 2008 02:14

Michael English:
Reading your article about Barack Obama's association with Jeremiah Wright, I am struck by how little people are willing to consider the possibility that Obama chose to be around Wright- not because of Wright's often outrageous opinions, but despite them.

I myself have often been in situations where I have gained the friendship of people who harbor opinions I detest. Being a member of a family with mixed Polish/Jewish/Italian/Scottish-American descent, I have the victims of Hitler on one side of my family and the captain of an Elizabethan slave ship on the other.

I spent three years caring for an elderly woman whose isolation in DC was greatly exacerbated by her patently obvious racism. Helping her die in her daughter's living room instead of in a cockroach-infested hole in DC was the first really worthwhile thing I accomplished after Mom died, and it was the signal event which ended five years of nearly relentless depression after Mom’s death. Sure, I wish Pauline had been more perfect than she was, but love does not require perfection, and neither did I.

Ergo, I have no patience for the idea that Barack Obama was somehow obligated to stab Jeremiah Wright as he stood there in the pews mouthing his un-American rhetoric (just about the only thing that would satisfy his critics, apparently, given that Obama has repeatedly disavowed any support for Wright's more controversial remarks and associations, and released him from any role in his campaign!). Obama befriended Wright as he was coming to grips with his place in an unfamiliar city and trying to establish some form of religious identity. It was only natural that he would gravitate toward a charismatic black preacher working in the area, and it was only natural that a charismatic black preacher in Chicago would hold many of the radical opinions that Wright holds.

That is, in many ways, unfortunate. It would certainly be more messianic of Obama if he were somehow able to immediately read Wright's mind the moment they met, scan him for bad ideas, and convince Wright of their wrongness before the reverend had even opened his mouth to introduce himself. But contrary to what his critics sarcastically maintain, Obama never claimed to be anything but human. I would guess he befriended Wright long before it became clear that Wright was, in some ways, a radical nut.

But when it did become clear, Obama did the only thing a truly honorable man could do. He tried his level best to maintain his friendship without supporting Wright's stupidity. He tried to take the good out of the bad, instead of storming away spluttering in scorn and disgust. That is generally considered a sign of maturity in a man, and yet now Obama is being castigated for it.

Meanwhile, John McCain cheerfully accepts endorsement from a president who this past month authorized the torture of prisoners; and from a reverend (John Hagee) who is on the record as saying that Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment against New Orleans for harboring a vibrant homosexual community.

No, I will not condemn Obama for his relationship, such as it is, with Jeremiah Wright. Obama has done his duty in regards to separating his friendship for Wright with any association or endorsement of Wright's bad opinions. That is more than I can say for his opponent.

The post below by Michael English articulates exactly how I feel about the situation and bears repeating. Thanks to the author of the post, Michael English.

Posted on March 18, 2008 02:14

Michael English:
Reading your article about Barack Obama's association with Jeremiah Wright, I am struck by how little people are willing to consider the possibility that Obama chose to be around Wright- not because of Wright's often outrageous opinions, but despite them.

I myself have often been in situations where I have gained the friendship of people who harbor opinions I detest. Being a member of a family with mixed Polish/Jewish/Italian/Scottish-American descent, I have the victims of Hitler on one side of my family and the captain of an Elizabethan slave ship on the other.

I spent three years caring for an elderly woman whose isolation in DC was greatly exacerbated by her patently obvious racism. Helping her die in her daughter's living room instead of in a cockroach-infested hole in DC was the first really worthwhile thing I accomplished after Mom died, and it was the signal event which ended five years of nearly relentless depression after Mom’s death. Sure, I wish Pauline had been more perfect than she was, but love does not require perfection, and neither did I.

Ergo, I have no patience for the idea that Barack Obama was somehow obligated to stab Jeremiah Wright as he stood there in the pews mouthing his un-American rhetoric (just about the only thing that would satisfy his critics, apparently, given that Obama has repeatedly disavowed any support for Wright's more controversial remarks and associations, and released him from any role in his campaign!). Obama befriended Wright as he was coming to grips with his place in an unfamiliar city and trying to establish some form of religious identity. It was only natural that he would gravitate toward a charismatic black preacher working in the area, and it was only natural that a charismatic black preacher in Chicago would hold many of the radical opinions that Wright holds.

That is, in many ways, unfortunate. It would certainly be more messianic of Obama if he were somehow able to immediately read Wright's mind the moment they met, scan him for bad ideas, and convince Wright of their wrongness before the reverend had even opened his mouth to introduce himself. But contrary to what his critics sarcastically maintain, Obama never claimed to be anything but human. I would guess he befriended Wright long before it became clear that Wright was, in some ways, a radical nut.

But when it did become clear, Obama did the only thing a truly honorable man could do. He tried his level best to maintain his friendship without supporting Wright's stupidity. He tried to take the good out of the bad, instead of storming away spluttering in scorn and disgust. That is generally considered a sign of maturity in a man, and yet now Obama is being castigated for it.

Meanwhile, John McCain cheerfully accepts endorsement from a president who this past month authorized the torture of prisoners; and from a reverend (John Hagee) who is on the record as saying that Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment against New Orleans for harboring a vibrant homosexual community.

No, I will not condemn Obama for his relationship, such as it is, with Jeremiah Wright. Obama has done his duty in regards to separating his friendship for Wright with any association or endorsement of Wright's bad opinions. That is more than I can say for his opponent.

After reading through some 112 comments:

I amazed that so many have attended 20 years of preaching at Trinity UCC -- so much so that they can call the pastor and people, racist, hating, non inclusive, anti-American....

While I was shocked when I first saw the few seconds of video showing "God damn America..." I did what I was trained as a Christian to do, I withheld judment,a went to the full text, read a number of sermons of Rev. Wright, read the church newsletter, had some friends describe the ministry of that Church in South Chicago...I came away with an entirely different perspective than what so many responders here have: Trinity UCC is more inclusive of white, black, different national and racial groups than any average church in America! It regularly hosts youth groups from predominately "white" churches, it participate in the missions of the U.C.C. and predominately "white" denomination.

I further, looked up some passages of Scripture, particularly in Amos and Jeremiah, where Biblical prophet/preachers used inflammatory language against their own nation...and at the urging of God, no less!

Then I remembered that somewhere, the loving, kind and forgiving Jesus said about the political/religious leaders of his day, "Woe unto you Scribes, Pharisees, Hypocrites... you reject the truth of the prophets."

And I stand amazed at how God has raised up people time and again, and it seems another time in which we can play out not only our angerss, hates and fears, but finally discover that there is a possiblity to forge a new future, a new hope. I trust that this is the time whether Obama is the man or not, I do not know. He was not my candidate of choice. But I do know this is the time to cast aside the "slanders", the "fear mongers" and those who would divide us for cheap political of monetary gain.

After reading through some 112 comments:

I amazed that so many have attended 20 years of preaching at Trinity UCC -- so much so that they can call the pastor and people, racist, hating, non inclusive, anti-American....

While I was shocked when I first saw the few seconds of video showing "God damn America..." I did what I was trained as a Christian to do, I withheld judment,a went to the full text, read a number of sermons of Rev. Wright, read the church newsletter, had some friends describe the ministry of that Church in South Chicago...I came away with an entirely different perspective than what so many responders here have: Trinity UCC is more inclusive of white, black, different national and racial groups than any average church in America! It regularly hosts youth groups from predominately "white" churches, it participate in the missions of the U.C.C. and predominately "white" denomination.

I further, looked up some passages of Scripture, particularly in Amos and Jeremiah, where Biblical prophet/preachers used inflammatory language against their own nation...and at the urging of God, no less!

Then I remembered that somewhere, the loving, kind and forgiving Jesus said about the political/religious leaders of his day, "Woe unto you Scribes, Pharisees, Hypocrites... you reject the truth of the prophets."

And I stand amazed at how God has raised up people time and again, and it seems another time in which we can play out not only our angerss, hates and fears, but finally discover that there is a possiblity to forge a new future, a new hope. I trust that this is the time whether Obama is the man or not, I do not know. He was not my candidate of choice. But I do know this is the time to cast aside the "slanders", the "fear mongers" and those who would divide us for cheap political of monetary gain.

After reading through some 112 comments:

I amazed that so many have attended 20 years of preaching at Trinity UCC -- so much so that they can call the pastor and people, racist, hating, non inclusive, anti-American....

While I was shocked when I first saw the few seconds of video showing "God damn America..." I did what I was trained as a Christian to do, I withheld judment,a went to the full text, read a number of sermons of Rev. Wright, read the church newsletter, had some friends describe the ministry of that Church in South Chicago...I came away with an entirely different perspective than what so many responders here have: Trinity UCC is more inclusive of white, black, different national and racial groups than any average church in America! It regularly hosts youth groups from predominately "white" churches, it participate in the missions of the U.C.C. and predominately "white" denomination.

I further, looked up some passages of Scripture, particularly in Amos and Jeremiah, where Biblical prophet/preachers used inflammatory language against their own nation...and at the urging of God, no less!

Then I remembered that somewhere, the loving, kind and forgiving Jesus said about the political/religious leaders of his day, "Woe unto you Scribes, Pharisees, Hypocrites... you reject the truth of the prophets."

And I stand amazed at how God has raised up people time and again, and it seems another time in which we can play out not only our angerss, hates and fears, but finally discover that there is a possiblity to forge a new future, a new hope. I trust that this is the time whether Obama is the man or not, I do not know. He was not my candidate of choice. But I do know this is the time to cast aside the "slanders", the "fear mongers" and those who would divide us for cheap political of monetary gain.

Wow, by column length alone, you've spent a third of your commentary slamming the Clintons and Jesse Jackson based on trumped up charges in the Lewinsky scandal. Pillory Hillary, Hosannah Obama.

So since many people, including your relatives, make racist remarks, it's okay for Obama to follow the spiritual guidance of a pastor that raves racist sermons from the pulpit. No, it is not. He is running for President, not the head of the local PTA. He is held to a higher standard. By excusing his poor judgement in his relationship with his spiritual mentor, you are condoning that hate speech.

Sally, you are just another rich white liberal apologist for the Obama campaign. Did this column help assuage your feelings of guilt over being a privileged white person in a world tinged with racism? Because I don't see any other point of this drivel.

Call a "spade a spade" and move on ... because we live in America and this is how we are.

Thanks, Sally. But to be honest about this whole thing I seriously doubt that those people who are obtuse and narrow-minded will take your worthy comments and gain some insight from them.
The nature of the beast is to find something "right" in their wrong sentiments because that is their zone of comfort.
To consider something outside that zone is to put themselves in a position of discomfort and lots of people prefer to remain within the confines of their security zone, even if it is stupid and unworthy of what humans are capable of feeling and doing.
It's a great shame, really.

Call a "spade a spade" and move on ... because we live in America and this is how we are.

Call a "spade a spade" and move on ... because we live in America and this is how we are.

what kind os a man of GOD would say the things that wright said. Obama gave his speech defending the man and defending what he said. he is now a truly black candidate and has thrown the rest of the people under the bridge, sad, but it was his decision to do so.

And for the record, it is easy to feel wonderful about a county that NEVER TREATED YOU AS A SECOND CLASS CITIZEN. You will never be judged for your skin tone, so you can never understand, yet, you don't even try and this is why process is rarely made.

A country that raped and killed a people for no reason. A country that was built with the concept of ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, YEST SLAVES WERE KEPT. WTF!

A country that built itself on your back, yet when you try to simply work hard, you are judged by something GOD GIVEN like skin color efore you have a chance to show your integrity or self-worth.

This country is full of hypocrisy and yet will only acknowledge it's wrongs to a select few people. and some STILL REFUSE ANY WRONG DOING.

AND FOR "YOU PEOPLE" who are going to say, "why am I here? why not leave and go back... or go somewhere else"... MY ANSWER IS, WHY SHOULD I LEAVE? WE BUILT THIS PLACE, WE HAVE EARNED THE RIGHT TO BE HERE. Have you earned yours?

NOW THAT IS REAL DEAL!1

When you ARE PASSED ON THE STREET BY A CABDRIVER FOR YOU SKIN COLOR, THEN YOU COME SEE ME!!!!

WHEN YOU HAVE RESUME REJECTED BEFORE I EVEN GET INTO THE DOOR BECAUSE OF MY NAME, YET I AM THE MOST QUALIFIED CANDIDATE, THEN YOU COME SEE ME.

So again for the record I don't like the pastor's comments, BUT I UNDERSTAND. And I simply don't expect you too!!! So that is fine!

that american flag you speak so fondly of is only a piece of fabric. Why worship a flag? The flag is simply a symbol, yet you don't even respect what the symbol is supposed to represents. It only represent justice for SOME and not all AND THAT HAS BEEN FROM DAY ONE.

America, ever the Hypocite (i.e. with dignity and justice for all - while slaves were being lynched) STOP FOOLING YOURSELVES!!!

Land of the free (freespeech - WHATEVER) and home of the ever in denial and hypocritical!!!!!!!! GO USA!!!!

Excellent commentary.

I agree with just about everything that Reverand Wright stated.

I think it is a shame but to be expected that Whites have gotten away with putting Obama on the offensive about his pastor.

Whites are trying to get Obama to apologize for the fact that Reverand Wright squarely confronted racist whites in this Country.

Daily Whites - and White Conservative Politicians - denigrate black Americans.

White Republicans use the Southern Strategy

to win elections all of the time - and they use bigotted pastors to do so.

Even Huckabee - defended the Confederate Flag

Yet Black Americans just do not have the capital to be able to hold whites on the defensive for their racism

It's part of American culture to be racist against black Americans.

Yet Whites have turned the clock back - and placed blacks on the defensive for attacking Racism

Rush Limbaugh is a bigot and so is Mike Huckabee

George Bush is an affirmative Action flunkie and bigot

Yet Reverand Wright is attacked?

Thank you for putting things in perspective.

I agree with just about everything that Reverand Wright stated.

I think it is a shame but to be expected that Whites have gotten away with putting Obama on the offensive about his pastor.

Whites are trying to get Obama to apologize for the fact that Reverand Wright squarely confronted racist whites in this Country.

Daily Whites - and White Conservative Politicians - denigrate black Americans.

White Republicans use the Southern Strategy

to win elections all of the time - and they use bigotted pastors to do so.

Even Huckabee - defended the Confederate Flag

Yet Black Americans just do not have the capital to be able to hold whites on the defensive for their racism

It's part of American culture to be racist against black Americans.

Yet Whites have turned the clock back - and placed blacks on the defensive for attacking Racism

Rush Limbaugh is a bigot and so is Mike Huckabee

George Bush is an affirmative Action flunkie and bigot

Yet Reverand Wright is attacked?

Thanks for being fair.

I went to same top schools as Obama: THEY don't give passing grade to students who evade/avoid change subject. What has "God Damn America" got to do with "race"? WHAT does hiv got do with "race"? WHAT does drug-taking got to do with "race"? Wright & Farrakhan preach it, Michelle bought it, Obie slips & slides it. HIS chickens have come home to roost.

Sally. After listening to Barack Obama's speech today and your comments before and after I feel that you have such a grasp on the issues he is surrounded by. I hope that your commentary on these issues reaches the vast majority of this country with positive results. Too many will not hear his entire speech and thus will benefit only from edited condensations from some who will not make such edits objectively. Keep up the good commentary.

All of the above cannot justify not respecting
our flag our country.That is what we as Americans believe.
Go post your story another place Sally Quinn.

I have found that no matter what some people say, there will be negatives seen. Even with the best intentions, so will e pessimistic and negative.

Such is life, but this is why race relations will always be an issue, because even if Obama disagrees with his pastor and says it is inappropriate (as he has said) there are some who will not think that is enough.

So he quits the church and the next person will say, you should have done it sooner. Why were you a member of this church anyway? On and On.

The reality is this race is a touchy subject. Most RUFUSE to believe that they have a bias. Everyone does n some level...whether race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, etc. THIS IS A FACT. many love to lie in fantasy. I am not a racist. I love everyone...WHATEVER!

It is hard to teach someone, but it is extremely hard to UNTEACH. Most people who are over 30 years of age need to be RE-TAUGHT. Simply because the media, our upbringing, our fears, our bias', etc have caused us to have unbalanced thoughts and actions.

PS. Most people who don't understand the situation iwth Obama and his pastor are simply ignorant, NOT STUPID, simply ignorant and off balance.

Nice article!!!

Jesus preached love, forgiveness and reconciliation. He preached against anger, revenge, hatred and violence. I do not understand a Christian theology that embraces anger and bitterness. Out of Jesus experience of poverty, oppression, injustice and violence, he loved, forgave and saved both his enemies and his friends. He was a gentle and peaceful man. He was radical.

During this Easter Time may we all follow Jesus and let go of our anger and bitterness and join Him in truly loving others, in reconciling with those we have sinned against and with those who have sinned against us and build a more just and peaceful world.

If you were a negro you would have no trouble understanding Jeremiah Wright's diatribe regarding America, America meaning a bunch of people not some abstract tract of land on the planet.

After the incredible history of slavery with all of its concomitant evils to have a person in the form of Geraldine Ferraro say Obama wouldn't be in the position he is if he were not black.

As if being black conferred a special blessing on any person. Wright must have have remembered the tortured lives of the negroes throughout the history of this country - the cries of those people lynched, whipped 'til they dropped dead, all the social deprivations experienced by the blacks only to have someone intimate that being black was all of a sudden a big blessing. Therefore, the harangue.

America is a group of people a lot of whom went right along with the treatment of the black people, and I imagine that Wright kinda thinks it ridiculous for "christian people" to treat the way negroes have been treated in the past. AND SO HE BLASTED BECAUSE OF ALL OF A SUDDEN HE COULDN'T HOLD IT IN ANYMORE. As if God were so mocked that he or she would confer special blessings on a people who were hypocritical at least and sure that they deserved a special singling out by God.

He has probably ruined Omama's chance for the nomination which is something that never should have happened to him - being brought down by one of his own color!!!!!

And I say, God bless Barack Obama in his time of need.

If you were a negro you would have no trouble understanding Jeremiah Wright's diatribe regarding America, America meaning a bunch of people not some abstract tract of land on the planet.

After the incredible history of slavery with all of its concomitant evils to have a person in the form of Geraldine Ferraro say Obama wouldn't be in the position he is if he were not black.

As if being black conferred a special blessing on any person. Wright must have have remembered the tortured lives of the negroes throughout the history of this country - the cries of those people lynched, whipped 'til they dropped dead, all the social deprivations experienced by the blacks only to have someone intimate that being black was all of a sudden a big blessing. Therefore, the harangue.

America is a group of people a lot of whom went right along with the treatment of the black people, and I imagine that Wright kinda thinks it ridiculous for "christian people" to treat the way negroes have been treated in the past. AND SO HE BLASTED BECAUSE OF ALL OF A SUDDEN HE COULDN'T HOLD IT IN ANYMORE. As if God were so mocked that he or she would confer special blessings on a people who were hypocritical at least and sure that they deserved a special singling out by God.

He has probably ruined Omama's chance for the nomination which is something that never should have happened to him - being brought down by one of his own color!!!!!

And I say, God bless Barack Obama in his time of need.

So what you are saying is that because other politicians have had racist and anti-semitic spiritual advisors that it is ok for Obama to have one too? Obama's entire campaign is predicated on being beyond race, on bringing people together and his spiritual advisor is this hate spewing person? I'm sorry but I don't buy it. Your column is an apologist rant. I would have preferred to read an intelligent analysis.

Keep in mind that the Religious Right in the US wrote the book on totally inflammatory America-bashing.

And then rejected judicial extremist Robert Bork wwrote another demented, raging anti-American tome called "Slouching Toward Gomorrah."

Remember Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell said that America "deserved" 9/11 just two days later, on the 9/13/2001 airing of 700 Club.

The people who are now bashing Obama and his pastor are *themselves* the grandmasters of anti-American rhetoric.

http://churchstatewall.typepad.com/

Obama gave a great speech, the best speech money can buy, and he gave it with great passion. Most people do not hold his race against him, only his actions.

This has been a very tumultuous week for everyone who has seen Rev. Wright say G D America. Has America made mistakes? Of course it has. There are many places in this world that would not permit this kind of speech.

For anyone who saw the miniseries on John Adams, it is not difficult to see the American experience as being sacred, and it is deeply offensive to see anyone curse America. Obama's speech is a good beginning, but does not go far enough. To deny people in Florida a chance to participate in the Democratic primary is also deeply offensive.

Thank you for the most thoughtful piece on this issue that I have read to date.

Thank you for the most thoughtful piece on this issue that I have read to date.

Thank you for the most thoughtful piece on this issue that I have read to date.

Sorry - I disagree with this assessment of the situation. It has in large part to do with the degree of involvement. It is different for the Reverend to be a peripheral member of Senator Obama's life, than for him to be so important as to inspire the title for his book, work on his campaign, etc. It speaks to his level of influence over Senator Obama, and quite frankly calls into question the "judgement" that he presumably has that makes him more capable to lead than Senator Clinton. Good judgement would dictate that you distance yourself from individuals like Rezko and Reverend Wright.

Clinton's involvement with Reverend Jackson was limited and with a focused purpose.

Yes, we all have relatives, or "uncles" who espouse views that we disagree with. However, I limit my interactions with those individuals in my family; change the topic when it becomes inappropriate. It is one thing to listen to relatives spout their views over private family dinners, but it is another to attend a church where the "uncle" indoctrinates these views in others. I simply would not attend.

People want to say that these rants of Reverend Wright are few; but there are certainly more than enough of them to show evidence that this is not a church of inclusion.

America is more than just black and white. There is a growing Latino population; there are Asians, Jews, etc. While Senator Obama may preach inclusion, he is not reaching the other minority populations. The media wants to portray him as a Uniter, but he is as divisive, if not more so, than Senator Clinton.

The difference in the Obama situation is, he is preaching unity on the campaign trail, yet has fed himself for almost 20 years on hate speech, and racism towards whites. This isn't a sexual immorality issue. Obama's mentor and pastor's venom is in direct opposition to what our country has been working on for decades. EQUALITY and respect for all. Obama has even taken the title of one of his books from his mentor's sermon, and condoned staying a member of a church where the leader says "God da*m America", & the congregation's members say "Amen"!

I'm trying to understand Ms. Quinn's point...is it that people who make racist comments aren't really racist...or is it that if Presidents, First Families and Army Generals don't repudiate people who make racist comments, then none of us should repudiate people who make racist remarks...or is it that racist remarks just don't merit repudiation?

Ms. Quinn is right about one thing, we have all been there with family or friends...and what distinguishes racists from non-racists is how we behave when we are there.

As a country rich in racial diversity, we are right to expect our chosen leaders to repudiate those who make racist comments. Regrettably, Ms. Quinn has chosen to highlight those who have allowed themselves a much lower standard.

A Smith:

I find your article really an eye opener. When we hear comments out of context its really difficult to judge a person or a situation. I am not a Barack Obama fan but I have seen situation in my Church where the pastor said something which I didn't agree with but I didn't stop going to the church. Thanks for your article and thanks for providing some perspective.

March 17, 2008 12:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Mr A smith, how about telling us what your pastor said instead of just a generality? Did he say GD America? Did he say the government infected blacks wit the HIV virus? Come on and tell us what he said so we can see how the two compare. Just making that statement and not putting the facts out is just excuse making. Disagreeing with the new color of curtains with your pastor is not the same thing.

Racist is racist no matter the color and sitting in the pew hooting and a clapping can't be excused.

This post is typical of bias in the media. I have nothing against Obama except to say that I don't know where he stands on some of the issues. But I have a lot to say about these columnist at the Washington Post, whether its Quinn or King who talk from both sides of their mouths and reveal their utter anti-Hillary bias.

The question to you Sally whether he repudiated at the time those remarks were made or just now in the heat of political campaign. I doubt whether you would be equally generous to Hillary. Whether Obama repudiates comments made by his friends, the press reacts with understanding and speak of Obama's courage. When Hillary repudiates comments made by her staffers who are forced to resign, the press describes as Hillary pushing her friends under the bus. You commentators should look in the mirror and be ashamed of yourselves.

Obama's Tuesday Speech
Got it Just Right

Hard to see how any fair minded person could disagree with any paragraph.

The Reverend's comments come out of the history of race relations in the USA, a sorry history.

to make the future better than the past, we need to confront the difficult issues of race as Obama states, and enacts, and see how, ALL together, can make things better.

How do we make a positive future out of a tragic past (unless you dont think Slavery and segregation were tragic).

Right on! Very well said. Thank you.

We have all been there with family members.We have not all been there with "spiritual advisers" whose advice to the spirit is to wallow in bigotry.Sorry that apology is, as they say... a dog that won't hunt.Nor have we all been Presidential hopefuls asking for a mandate because we are inclusive healers. Its fine to explain that Rev Wright grew up with racial injustice.It is quite another thing to justify and tolerate his bile as Mr.Obama has until it became notorious and didn't focus group well.

Points well taken. I feel that anyone trying to write a rebuttal to you would not be truly honest with himself/herself...

That being said, perceptions are everything when it comes to this election, and it may be wishful thinking to believe that all of the voters are always going to react wisely...

Let's see what Mr. Obama says during his speech today...

The media puts out short clips which are only a few seconds in length out of presumably thousands of hours of teaching over the years. The questions then are:

1. How representative are these comments? Are they a few rare lapses in judgment out of many more hours of solid teaching or are they representative of a consistent pattern of such lapses of judgment? That is something that would only be determined by listening through much longer lengths of time.

2. To what degree does Obama subscribe to this philosophy? As with my first question, if these were rare comments in a framework of solid teaching, Obama may be able to honestly say that he doesn't believe such comments and still associate himself with Wright, but if this is the kind of message given every week then it is less believable that Obama would disagree and continue to attend over such a long time. I would attend a church where I occasionally heard something that I didn't agree with, but I wouldn't attend one that was constantly saying things I didn't agree with. After all, when will you ever find any other person or organization that agrees 100% with everything you believe all the time. Rather you agree on the central points and agree to disagree on the peripheral ones.

I find Sally Quinn's piece disingenuous. By opening on the Clinton saga she innoculates Obama: for what? Obama did not utter the words, Wright did. Quinn's own personal history with Ben is brought up again and again by commenters. Obvious!

The issue is: how did Obama manage to maintain such a stong relationship with Rev Wright and now condemn him for his views? Are we to believe that Obama was never present at a sermon or discussion where the Rev did not go on a bender?

Obama has just shown himself to be a regular pol. Keep in Wright's good books for the church connection: very useful in politics. Why should Obama not be cynical and calculating? It is par for the course. We say that about McCain and Clinton all the time.

The problem is that many pundits have placed this man on a pedestal and now they are having to deal with some uncomfortable truths. And they are squirming. Not to worry: the right is all fired up and Obama will face a withering barrage at the appropriate time. This is not going away.

Oh, Lordy.

She was taken in too.

It was all show.

Even the daughter calling the "minister".

The best was Clinton coming out of church with the bible in his hand.

Out of the millions of people who go to church on sundays, just look to see how many carry bibles out of the church. Virtually none.

The show they put on was good.

After all, he is the most admired man in the world and she is running for president.

And people like Sally write these kinds of articles about them.

Ms. Quinn: I find your wisdom in dealing with religious confrontations of various kinds refreshing. If the self-righteous would refer to the religious underpinnings of their faith they would be less inclined to be judgmental.

Ms. Quinn: I find your wisdom in dealing with religious confrontations of various kinds refreshing. If the self-righteous would refer to the religious underpinnings of their faith they would be less inclined to be judgmental.

If Obama is not different with others, what changes will he bring???

Did Obama lie when he said he just heard those incendiary comments recently??

The issue is Obama's judgment. (in addition to the media's bias and laziness)

He and his campaign should have known from day one of undertaking this campaign that Wright would be a problem in mainstream america.

The fact that they assumed they would continue to receive holy, prayer-like, adoring, uncritical press coverage and that Wright wouldn't be 'uncovered' shows both deceit and poor judgment -- not to mention collusion with the lazy, idolatrous press.

Sally Quinn is one more stupid, intellectually dishonest hack -- just another former mistress who would be nowhere if not for the rich, powerful, privileged man she had an affair with and then married.

Wright is not the problem; he's symbolic of white american fears and anxieties about their deepest fears about their black brothers and sisters. Anyone who thinks honestly for one moment cannot be surprised based on this country's history and legacy of racism.

The problem is they are afraid of what Wright represents and his closeness to Obma -- that Obama didn't know of Wright's beliefs and attitudes is not credible. The problem is Obama's lack of judgment about Wright and his ultimate impact on the Obama campaign. It will very likely cause Obama to lose the election to McCain and the republicans.

That is the biggest problem. The issue is Obama's judgment and his credibility (and honesty).

How can Obama who prides himself on judgement he makes can erred in judging and deciding what is wrong from what is right? how can Wright be part of his campaign?. The saying is show me your friends and I will know who you are. It makes me wonder who he really is. Did he use him to gain black folks? As much as I like him this leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

How can Obama who prides himself on judgement he makes can erred in judging and deciding what is wrong from what is right? how can Wright be part of his campaign?. The saying is show me your friends and I will know who you are. It makes me wonder who he really is. Did he use him to gain black folks? As much as I like him this leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

How can Obama who prides himself on judgement he makes can erred in judging and deciding what is wrong from what is right? how can Wright be part of his campaign?. The saying is show me your friends and I will know who you are. It makes me wonder who he really is. Did he use him to gain black folks? As much as I like him this leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

Obama knew this guy for 20 years!!!! Married him, baptized his children, put him on his staff and didn't know he routinely said these things??? No wonder Obama's wife was making comments like "this is the first time she was proud of the country..." it's consistent with what this pastor is saying. This whole issue doesn't past the smell test...it stinks! Inexcusable!

Come on Sally, you are just trying to find a way to excuse Obama's relationship with a beast that damned America - tell that to the ones that lost their loved ones on 9/11. And there is no excuses for the behaviors of others either. Don't polish bad behavior Sally.

Alot of people don't like Barak Obama because they say he is a Muslim. Alot of the same people don't like Barak Obama because they they diapprove of his Pastor.

But, it can't be both? They just don't like him, for any reason they can dream up. Alot of people don't like black people, period, who are politically incorrect.

Leave it to the MOST HYPOCRITICAL sycophantic snob of Washington, D.C (a stinky slimy fish in a small pond) SALLY QUINN to find every opportunity in print and on MSNBC, (another corporate right wing no-bid contract military industrial complex Love-Obama, Hate-Hillary, G.E. owned entity) to slime Hillary every chance she gets.

She epitomizes the cliche of certain types of over-privileged, entitled, rich white woman-hating women who do far more harm to women and women's issues than almost any individual man ever could.

You are a pathetic and pitiful hypocrite and moralistic snob who wouldn't know Jesus if he bit you in the ass. Disgusting.

As a follower of Christ, when I heard the comments of this pastor, I was grieved. He preached hate and generalization and also not withstanding, he as a professing tool of God spoke blashemy. Horrible, sad, abominable...It's not the black Church; it's Christ's Church; not in just a name;

To Sally Quinn:

Kudos to you for your commentary on the morality of repudiation. Raised on the Southside of Chicago, not far from Trinity, in the forties, I learned that Black churches provided my Black friends a sense of identity, a sanctuary from the daily indignities they faced in a city still practicing subtle forms of segregation. The lessons I learned from attending a predominately Black high school stayed with me through a half century in education. Traditionally, Black churches provided more than a religious experience, they provided a respite from social injustice and a call for a Lockian equality not discernible in white society. Perhaps through Obama's dilemma, American can finally have the dialogue that you began with your insightful column. Art Levin, Emeritus Professor of Journalism, Pulliam School of Journalism, Butler University, Indianapolis.

To Sally Quinn:

Kudos to you for your commentary on the morality of repudiation. Raised on the Southside of Chicago, not far from Trinity, in the forties, I learned that Black churches provided my Black friends a sense of identity, a sanctuary from the daily indignities they faced in a city still practicing subtle forms of segregation. The lessons I learned from attending a predominately Black high school stayed with me through a half century in education. Traditionally, Black churches provided more than a religious experience, they provided a respite from social injustice and a call for a Lockian equality not discernible in white society. Perhaps through Obama's dilemma, American can finally have the dialogue that you began with your insightful column. Art Levin, Emeritus Professor of Journalism, Pulliam School of Journalism, Butler University, Indianapolis.

Aren't pastors supposed to challenge the faithful and to pose the difficulties inherent in the gospel? What has the Reverend Wright done other than to challenge the listener? I think this whole issue is another manifestation of the kitchen sink strategy by Obama's opponents.

Wright is an old school pastor from the civil rights era. Preachers have spoke like this for years in the black community and still do. But what America fails to realize is HE IS CORRECT. Think about what he said. What was so wrong with that. He didn't say to anyone we should hate all white people. He was just pointing out that people seem to have forgotten that Hillary Clinton WAS NOT AND IS NOT AND NEVER WILL BE A BLACK PERSON IN AMERICA. She has been trying so hard to say, "I can relate to you and your struggle" but she hasn't had to struggle. You can't say just because you marched with some people or faught for women's rights that it makes you just as much a part of that as the person involved. You aren't the woman being beat, neglected, lied on, cheated on, etc. There was NOTHING racist about what that Pastor said and if many of you white people would wake up and actually listen to what he said, you would know that he is correct. Tell me what has America Really done for the Black community? You can't say anything about the welfare system because White Women are the biggest users of that system. You can't say Affirmative Action because yet again White Women seem to get the most out of that. You can't say blacks were given the right to vote because That isn't a Right that's a responsibility and everyone who is human should have that available to them. So think about it for just one second people.

Was what Rev. Wright said so offensive not because of what he said, or becaue he actually had the nerve to say it and you all know that it is true??????

We have a moral obilgation to call things as they are. If we believe that someone is wrong on race or religious zealotry, hatred against women, etc, then we must speak out. I try to, but I too have made poor remarks and said insensitive things to others. In short, I'm human.

What sets the comments apart are the actions behind the words. I would hope that I will always reach out to express my opinion and reserve the right for others to do so. What I will not tolerate, is policies and actions to promulgate those opinions that would discriminate against others.

President Lyndon Johnson said fairly horrible things, but his actions far exceeded his comments that some would criticize. I would hope at the end of my life that things were measured more by what I did, than what I may have said.

Wonderful summary of the situation, Sally. I agree completely.

Excellent! Well balanced. Human. Compassionate. Sally - this article is a great service to human understanding. We applaud you, may more media folks develop this kind of balanced reporting and writing. Thanks Sally.

Ms. Sally Quinn's post makes sence, however she missed a bigger story I believe when she did not mention that Francis Schaeffer's comments are/where treasious . The reaction was to be embrassed by the right wing in America. Even by Presidents and high ranking Republican politicians. Thank You GWH

Forsake Buddhism!

The Dalai Lama & his international MONKS-ARMY have Blood On Their Hands!

Sally:

"People turn to counselors, ministers, psychiatrists and spiritual advisers in times of despair, often not thinking or realizing that these people have complicated lives as well."

Did that happen to you?

You name one person on the face of this earth that has not told an untruth. So what if he has heard his pastor preach on the ill's of the country. The question is did Pastor Wright lie about something or was he just telling it as it is? Read your news papers, study your history, just because someone speaks about the wrongs in the country by those in power. It does not mean he hates white people. As someone once said if your not part of the solution than your part of the problem. Churches all over this country have aways been the voice of the people. During slavery it was the white abolitionist ministers who spoke out about the inhumanity of man to inslave another. Drugs are coming into this country and there are deals being made by our country that we do not know about. We saw what was going on in the late 70's in South America. This is not the best form of government but it is not the worst. Pastor Wright served his country in the Marines so he has a sense of loyalty and duty. We have the right of freedom of speech, not only to speak well of the country but to speak of ill's of it also.

MICHEAL ENGLISH well said.

John McCain actively sought endorsement from John Hagee and then tries to distance himself thinking it is not a good move. On the other hand any reasonable person can consider that when Obama met his pastor he could not know "everything". Hate of haters cannot be quenched...

Reading your article about Barack Obama's association with Jeremiah Wright, I am struck by how little people are willing to consider the possibility that Obama chose to be around Wright- not because of Wright's often outrageous opinions, but despite them.

I myself have often been in situations where I have gained the friendship of people who harbor opinions I detest. Being a member of a family with mixed Polish/Jewish/Italian/Scottish-American descent, I have the victims of Hitler on one side of my family and the captain of an Elizabethan slave ship on the other.

I spent three years caring for an elderly woman whose isolation in DC was greatly exacerbated by her patently obvious racism. Helping her die in her daughter's living room instead of in a cockroach-infested hole in DC was the first really worthwhile thing I accomplished after Mom died, and it was the signal event which ended five years of nearly relentless depression after Mom’s death. Sure, I wish Pauline had been more perfect than she was, but love does not require perfection, and neither did I.

Ergo, I have no patience for the idea that Barack Obama was somehow obligated to stab Jeremiah Wright as he stood there in the pews mouthing his un-American rhetoric (just about the only thing that would satisfy his critics, apparently, given that Obama has repeatedly disavowed any support for Wright's more controversial remarks and associations, and released him from any role in his campaign!). Obama befriended Wright as he was coming to grips with his place in an unfamiliar city and trying to establish some form of religious identity. It was only natural that he would gravitate toward a charismatic black preacher working in the area, and it was only natural that a charismatic black preacher in Chicago would hold many of the radical opinions that Wright holds.

That is, in many ways, unfortunate. It would certainly be more messianic of Obama if he were somehow able to immediately read Wright's mind the moment they met, scan him for bad ideas, and convince Wright of their wrongness before the reverend had even opened his mouth to introduce himself. But contrary to what his critics sarcastically maintain, Obama never claimed to be anything but human. I would guess he befriended Wright long before it became clear that Wright was, in some ways, a radical nut.

But when it did become clear, Obama did the only thing a truly honorable man could do. He tried his level best to maintain his friendship without supporting Wright's stupidity. He tried to take the good out of the bad, instead of storming away spluttering in scorn and disgust. That is generally considered a sign of maturity in a man, and yet now Obama is being castigated for it.

Meanwhile, John McCain cheerfully accepts endorsement from a president who this past month authorized the torture of prisoners; and from a reverend (John Hagee) who is on the record as saying that Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment against New Orleans for harboring a vibrant homosexual community.

No, I will not condemn Obama for his relationship, such as it is, with Jeremiah Wright. Obama has done his duty in regards to separating his friendship for Wright with any association or endorsement of Wright's bad opinions. That is more than I can say for his opponent.

Witness??

In Richard's cohen's words:
********************
How is it possible that Obama did not know about these remarks when he is a member of Wright's congregation and so close to the man that he likens him to "an old uncle"?

How is it possible that a campaign apparatus that sniffed out Geraldine Ferraro's offensive statement to a local California newspaper (The Daily Breeze, 12th paragraph) did not know that Wright's statements condemning America were all over the Internet and had been cited March 6 by the (reputable) anti-Obama columnist Ronald Kessler? The sermon was also available on YouTube.

In other words, how is it possible that a man who has made judgment the centerpiece of his entire presidential campaign has shown so little of it in this matter?
**************************************

The issue is not what Wright said, or how he said it. The issue is Obama's judgment. If he really did not know .. what does it say about his judgment and if he did know what does that say about his judgment. Either way Obama does not come out looking good. Try thinking it through.

"Plus, Obama denounced the words but not the man"

And that is the whole point. Does it matter? Two decades of membership with a church, Wright is his mentor, he takes Wright's words as the title of his book, he thanks Wright first before anyone else after his senate victory ... and then he say he did not know that Wright could say these words? He uninvites Wright to give a speech because as Axlerod admits that Wright could get "excited", Wright says that he had told Obama and Moss that the Church will face criticism, and with all that Obama says he did not know? He did not know? He condemns the words, while others are trying to put them in context? He condemns the words when others are comparing what the white right wing evangelists have said?

The issue is no longer what wright said or did not say, but the response of Obama and his words. He chose to feign ignorance. He chose to lie. He lied because he thought he could not explain what others are now trying to explain about Wright and the context of the Black church. Do pastors make vulgar humping motions as Wright did when talking about Bill and monica and castigating Bill for "doing" it to the blacks? And Obama says he did not know?

Say hello to Presiden McCain. Get ready for Ads showing Wright humping and then Obama lying .. 20 years and he did not know what his pastor was even saying?

A. Kafir seems to be there when the pastor was preaching crap to Obama. Sounds like he is Obama's ex church buddy.

There are opinion and there are facts.

I disagree. The hysteria in the media has been the liberal black rage. Plus, Obama denounced the words but not the man who brought him to Christ and worked to empower his community, worked to get his community to stand on its own feet.

The issue is neither conservative white rage nor liberal black rage. The issue is simple. Obama, when it came crunch time, chose the easy way out and vehemently condemned what his pastor of 20 years had said, and now others choose to defend what and where the rage of Wright came from. Obama will try to spin with his fine words tomorrow to justify that he chose to lie. Judgment? The issue is not whether we choose to listen to MLK's words, or Farrakhans words, or Wright's words. The whole matter is that we have to listen and parse Obama's words. And he flunked. He chose to lie.

From Glenn Greenwald.

White, right-wing Christian evangelical rage against America is understandable, respectable, and noble. Liberal black Christian anger towards America is scary, subversive, and despicable.

The problem is not what wright said or did not say. The problem is what Obama is saying. Obama says he did not know. Obama say he condemns what Wright said. Obama says he had no clue even after being a member of the church for 20 years, having wright as a mentor, writing about the closeness with the pastor for two decades, and now he does not know what the pastor was saying?

Obama is lying. He did not defend wright. He did not say what others are saying, but he said he condemns what wright said. Which Obama do you believe? Which judgment of Obama do you trust?

Obama cannot unite his own party. He will unite the fcountry? The Obama supporters can spin which ever way they want, but to themselves, look with honesty and common sense. You cannot escape the simple fact that Obama is trying to spin like any other cheap politician. He is a petty liar ... lying for the sake of wanting power. Not surprising, but you cannot spin your saint Obama out of hypocrisy.

Another, less inflammatory sample of what is said at Trinity UCC Church is here:

http://www.tucc.org/home.htm

Note, I am not a member of that Church. In fact, I am a Wiccan, not a Christian. I am an Obama supporter, but only because I disagree with HRC on several issues. He was not my first, second, or third choice, but the person that ultimately wound up voting for in the primary.

.......~~~~~~~~~~~~
...~~~~~....∧ -----___
~~~~~................]={|)...)
...~~~~~ ---∨-----
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It's a symptom of the institutional racism that is pervasive in our society that the first reaction of the media and the majority of white Americans upon hearing these out-of-context soundbytes from Rev. Wright is a shout of "outrageous! Wrong! Unacceptable! Unamerican!" It would be worthwhile and worthy if someone -- including Ms. Quinn -- attempted to look at these oh-so-outrageous comments in their context in an effort to understand their genesis.

This, of course, needs to happen well outside of the context of a presidential campaign, and need not involve Sen. Obama. The tangential connection may have opened the door but this part of a larger discourse that should have happened already but cannot happen because the immediate reaction to the anger of people of color in this country is to shut it down, to vilify it, to repudiate it, not to examine it. That's simply too scary, too dangerous.

And too necessary.

Hat tip to Crooksandliars.com

"1. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson said America is damned — cursed by God, though not permanently — because we tolerate feminists and queer people.

2. John Hagee says America is damned — cursed by God, though not permanently — because we tolerate Muslims.

3. Jeremiah Wright says America is damned — cursed by God, though not permanently, suffering from hate and division, from bitterness and envy — because we succumb to hating one another."

What is the difference between the examples above? In the first 2 they are white Republican ministers or large evangelical communities. In the latter the preacher is a black Democrat preacher from a smaller religious community. Of course the latter has to be denounced and vilified while the former are held up as paragons of moral virtue.

Thank Andrew Sullivan for finding. Or, someone else found it and he put it on his blog.

"i" & WE have been deliberately discriminated against O.U.R. APOCALYPTARIAN FAiTh!

"i" Have bee Isolated via key-word-blocking. "i" have been Exiled & Vanquished & Robbed etcc, by WASHINGTON POST, NEWSWEEK, NY-POST, NY-TIMES, MSNBC, Channel 7 NYC et al!

"i", nor any Blogger, is allowed to spell (normaly) Horizontaly, on one Line , either:

S
H
I
L
O
H (which means Peace Bioblically) so WAPO is anti-Peace etc... AND

J
O
Z
E
V
Z (Try Typing me name & hit the "post" button & ye will be rejected/Sensored!?????

or

T
R
A
N
S
F
I
N
I
T
Y (The BOOK Of), yea, what are they hiding or running from? WHO IS BEHIND THIS WAPO???

or

E
C
L
A
T
A
R
I
A
N (like saying 'JU" or "Christian" or Hindu or "Muslom" now Forbidden to say or write [ECL][AT][ARi][AN].

AND afew other 'KEY" words!

SHAME WAPO, Shame Crying Shame:

NOTE: Soon "i" & et al, will sue them (their Prejudice & anti-Constitution & Anti-American) and PROVE O.U.R. Case in Federal Court in N.Y.C..

To start with: ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS, and with "PUNITIVE" Damages & Other remedy's, $$1,000,000,000 !!!

"i" divulged TOO MUCH InFO/HONESTY. Now they are trying to Steal The NEW SONG coming from all O.U.R. Old songs for Healing of Nations, WorlD PEace & Many more Prophetic, as Biblically Promised, good tidings, for Better never Worse etc...!

Guess it is a Dog Eat Dog World after all, especiall & Suprisingly at WAPO's "onfaith" (imagine blocking thoese words theirs??) "onreligion" & "postglobal" sites!

WE are Going to have OUR Day in Court Soon. I'll keep ye Posted ALL! Thank You for your Insight And Pattern Recognition ability's, CYBER FRIEND!

Note: They are in Outright Violation of FEDERAL LAW & ORDER(s)!!!!!!!!! Not un-JUSTLY their (O.U.R.) Sweet Sweet Holy Man Made "CONSTITUTION", aka THE-2nd-BIBLE!

"OUR-BOT" is 1st!

And HUMAN, not HUMATE made Bibles are 3rd in line of genuine importance, if any any more!

hence the "NEW-SONG"....

They have to correct their SIN's not "i" et al!

Eeeee Haaaaa!

Thank you for this excellent article.

I really struggle to understand the hatred and anger that some Christians(?) have for both Rev Wright and Obama.

I to this day have not heard any speech by Obama, or any written statement by Obama that goes against his belief in Jesus and the teachings of Jesus; and I have read and listened a lot!

Hillary says we should look at actions, not words. And Obama's actions starting with his community organizing efforts 20 years ago were to help people in need. He started his political career to be more effective in helping others and has continued that effort.

I challenge you to study Obama--read his books, get to know his legislative experience during his 8 years in Illinois Senate. He did a lot of good things for the people of Illinois. Again, in the US Senate he has worked on behalf of the people, not for corporate interests and not for his own self interest, as many politicans do.

If you take my challenge and still hate Obama--at least you will have an informed hate.

GEM, Athena: you both hit the mark. Again I think it's a shame that a lot of us in white America are reacting with shock and self righteousness against an attitude that has been with us for decades and which I find perfectly understandable. I for one wish we lived in a nation in which Obama's response could be merely that my pastor's facts are a little off, but what's your problem with his indignation and zeal? That someone who attends that church would have nothing whatever to apologize to the PC crowd, or the talk show types for.

Another anti-American speech by a Black man:

What, to the American slave, is your Fourth of July? I answer: a day that reveals to him, more than all other days in the year, the gross injustice and cruelty to which he is the constant victim. To him, your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sounds of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciation of tyrants, brass fronted impudence; your shouts of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanksgivings, with all your religious parade and solemnity, are, to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy--a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation on the earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody than are the people of the United States, at this very hour.

- Frederick Douglass.

This is a very thoughtful, insightful article that brings up many points to consider. Life itself is complicated and human beings have different and conflicting sentiments about many things. I saw Rev. Wright in another video last year where he was calm, very loving and completely inclusive in his statements so I can believe that he too likely has many different sentiments too.
No doubt it may be shocking to some white americans that many blacks are in touch with the anger that Rev Wright expressed in these statements. But my experience is that much of this sentiment is generational, regional and based on socio-economic class and it does not mean that secretly blacks want to rise up and do harm to whites, which is exactly the fears that some in the media will play on to many unconscious people who prefer to form their opinions based on soundbytes. Many of the people who have posted here labelling Barack Obama as a racist have forgotten that he is half white too. I believe he is honestly wanting to lead us beyond these divisions. I want to hear what he has to say tomorrow in his speech in Philadelphia.

The real problem is not that Rev. Wright said Da__ America.

The real problem is that Rev. Wright said the US supported state sponsored terrorism against the Palestinians by its blind support of Israel. It is precisely because of Rev. Wright's criticism of Israel, the Jewish lobby has targeted him. If Rev. Wright made pro-Israel statements like all backboneless, corrupt politicians, he would be defended by the media today. Look at the journalists who are attacking him today - Ron Kessler, Charles Krauthammer, Michael Medved, Halpern, Ruth Marcus and other Jews who are trying to torpedo Barack Obama's candidacy.

This is an outrage! These Jews pushed us into this disastrous war in Iraq for the benefit of Israel, cost us 4000 lives, 20000 injured and more than 150000 dead Iraqi lives, and now these fellas are after Rev. Wright. These fellas like Charles Krauthammer, Kessler, Safire, Perle, Wolfowitz, Michael Ledeen and others engaged in daily propaganda to get us into this war in Iraq, and now they want to prevent Obama from winning.

The real problem is not that Rev. Wright said Da__ America.

The real problem is that Rev. Wright said the US supported state sponsored terrorism against the Palestinians by its blind support of Israel. It is precisely because of Rev. Wright's criticism of Israel, the Jewish lobby has targeted him. If Rev. Wright made pro-Israel statements like all backboneless, corrupt politicians, he would be defended by the media today. Look at the journalists who are attacking him today - Ron Kessler, Charles Krauthammer, Michael Medved, Halpern, Ruth Marcus and other Jews who are trying to torpedo Barack Obama's candidacy.

This is an outrage! These Jews pushed us into this disastrous war in Iraq for the benefit of Israel, cost us 4000 lives, 20000 injured and more than 150000 dead Iraqi lives, and now these fellas are after Rev. Wright. These fellas like Charles Krauthammer, Kessler, Safire, Perle, Wolfowitz, Michael Ledeen and others engaged in daily propaganda to get us into this war in Iraq, and now they want to prevent Obama from winning.

Beautiful.... Favorite Scripture...Judge not and ye shall not be judged; condemn not and ye shall not be condemned; forgive and ye shall be forgiven… Luke 6:38

Lily S.
http://lilyseymour.blogspot.com/

Do we hold president Bush for Nick Bush etc. Come on guys, next thing we want is sexual behavior of pastor's dog.

" I don't want a guy in the White House who attends a racist church."

So I take it that you won't be voting for John McCain, who has called Rev. Ron Parsley his "spiritual advisor." Rev. Parsley has called for a Crusade against Islam, as well as the usual suspects of gays, liberals, etc. One of his more famous quotes is: “I came to incite a riot! Man your battle stations. Ready your weapons.” (One wants to assume he’s speaking metaphorically, but it’s not entirely clear.)

nice attempt to dismiss Obama's 20 years with a minister who he's called a personal friend and his mentor as if it were just another supporter.
sally quinn,you ought to slap yourself silly for that kind of lie

nice attempt to dismiss Obama's 20 years with a minister who he's called a personal friend and his mentor as if it were just another supporter.
sally quinn,you ought to slap yourself silly for that kind of lie

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MITCH,
Nice post. Thanks for the clarity.

Ms. Sally wanted Silda to ditch her husband. i expected her to say the pastor should be stoned!!
Of course, neither is appropriate at least would have shown some consistency.

She seem to lack integrity.

To add to the column: to wit;

if religion and behavior of one's minister or pastor is on the table, and everthing about Christianity, We can finally talk freely about JEWS. And should.

Though of course this post will be automatically ditched on this post.

Listen again to what the minister Wright did say.

He's right. Telling the truth about bombing Japan, about racism, means he's...what, not American?

Problem is he talked about Israel...for just a sentence...but there it is. AND YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. Particularly those who watch
"ON Faith".

Listen again to what the minister Wright did say.

He's right. Telling the truth about bombing Japan, about racism, means he's...what, not American?

Problem is he talked about Israel...for just a sentence...but there it is. AND YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. Particularly those who watch
"ON Faith".

The first conslusion to draw from Sally Quinn's article: Antisemitism is tolerated in the U.S. far more than anti-Americanism.

Secondly, her analogies do not hold water. Clinton was in his second term as president when he received counseling from Jesse Jackson, so like it or not, there was not much to be done about it (and as an aside, Jackson, unlike the Rev. Wright, had attacked Louis Farrakhan for his antisemitism). Obama, on the other hand, is a candidate, and the voters are trying to make up their minds about him, so every bit of information carries a lot more weight.

As to her other examples - Nixon, Goldwater, Billy Graham - none of that was public information at the time, so where is the analogy?

re: which is how to deal with the anger of being black in America.
Give me a break, you don't deal with anger by uttering racist comments, downing your country, play the victim nor blame others for your personal conditions in life either as an individual or as a race.
That's simply a lack of personal accountability!

The real issue is that white America knows so little about black preachers that Obama can't give the real defense, which is that Wright is not all that odd, that you do have to forgive a lot of obvious hyperbole in the process of listening for the message, which is how to deal with the anger of being black in America, which ain't no picnic. So we get the smug self righteousness of Sean Hannity, who has no clue of the difference between black pride or black self reliance, and black separatism, and can pretend to be so color blind he finds Mrs. Obama to be offensive (give me a break). Hannity can even say Obama isn't fit to serve in the Senate. We should ask Sean whether all the wonderful folks in choir robes over the 30 years the church has existed are all unfit to become president for having sung in Rev. Wright's choir?

I have read through the responses on this site and see that people are making errors about the Obama/Wright relationship.
1) To say that Obama is responsible for Wright's statements is unreasonable. That is ike saying you are responsible for your bosses inappropriate comments. (Boss Head of company / Preacher Head of Church for those that do not get the analogy) I have heard plenty of inappropriate comments on all types of subjects told to myself and my coworkers. None of that means that I am going to stop going to work there, because the CHURCH is not just the preacher, its the community and everyone in the community has their own mind and can draw their own conclusions.

2) To say he hates white people is ridiculous. Have you seen his maternal family his mother is as white as Wonderbread. My grandmother is not very fond of white people, but maybe that is because she grew up during Jim Crowe and segregation like Rev. Wright did. HE is not a new generation that has not gone through that terrible time in our nations past, He is a living part of the past with memories about that which some on this board seem to want to brush over. I say this just for alittle perspective on this man's possible mindset.

I don't agree with what the man has said but I certainly don't paint his speech and mindset with that of Senator Obama's. If you guys what to find out about the type of person he is, read up on him don't just listen to sound bytes of someone else speaking. Think about it how many times has someone (a friend of yours) said something that was a lie or that was so foul that people turned away in disgust. Its probably happened to everyone. Now add this to the mix how many times were their words associated with you because you are their close friend, even though you don't agree with their statements????? Think of the situation like that, because like a preacher a best friend MAY have a lot of perceived influence in your life.

Why would the Clinton's leak the photo of Obama in native garb while overlooking the much more damaging Wright comments? They may have finished off Obama back in Iowa with one of these soundbites.

Why doesn't Obama hit Clinton with the scandals? Coming from the right, those assaults merely bounce off the circled wagons, coming from the inside they may be effective.

It's fascinating political theater. Who will blink first?

SHAME on WAHABi, not iSLAM, SHAME SAUDi ARABiA, OSAMA et al!:

Att: OBAMA, NAACP, & Friends of The NATION OF ISLAM, U.S.A. etc..

On, "ON-WOMANS-WRONGS & SHAME, not RIGHTS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo&feature=related

UNDERCOVER of Islamic-Zionism , aka “AL TAQIYA” (not by Jews) via Saudi Built MOSQUE!

Internationally, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS & Millions INVOLVED in Non-Islamic Nations!

Abolish islam in Sweet Sweet U.S.A.!

Remove Tax free Status & Building permits, restrict-Boycott Travel, Student exchange etc..!

If the essence of this essay is to point out the inherent hypocrisy of the players, it hits the mark.

Secondly, one cannot separate the man/woman from what they say, that would be absurd. Bigots and racists come in all forms, are in all races and religions but to excuse same is being a willing participant in the denigration of others. If I allowed my children to hang out with racists, anti-Semites or allowed their hateful and virulent ignorant talks in my home, I would be the same as they are. Wright is a racist and Obama is same by his twenty years association with this racist bigot!

Sally it is so obvious that you are an Obama supporter. You should be ashamed of this totally unprofessional article.

The Pastor is a racist and America hater. Obama either agrees with him or ignored it for political benefit. Which is it?

Havin read the Sally article as well as some of the previous comments, I would like to say that much as all Americans like to be proud of this nation, Religious Preachers are expected to have high moral standings, unbiased in their views and fearless, no matter whose Ox is gored, about what they perceive as wrong acts in the society. This is not to say that the Rev. Wright couldn't have somewhat moderated his language. He definitely needed not going totally political in his congregation. However, his statements may end up being as a wake-up-call to the government, definitely not a call-to-arms, to his congregation.

Being part of a congregation, does not mean the attendee, agrees with all the preacher (Man-with-the-microphone) says; he could have been attending for so many reasons, and a one or two odd preachings may not oblige him to leave.

Greg, racism and hate speech aren't funny.

Like Obama, I offer an obligatory rebuke of Rev. Wright's sentiments. I do, however, receive Rev. Wright's remarks with tongue in cheek jocularity...indeed....I dismiss them as part of the African-American caricature of the Black Experience in America.

I have attended almost a hundred African-American congregations, and have noted a gift of hyperbole and caricature in most African American preaching.

Most of the preaching of this sort is meant to convey, not fact,but feeling; not truth but rapport with the audience.

I do wonder, in times like this, if Rev. Wright might not be like an angry IMAM, whose ability to fan the ire of his congregation, ultimately takes over and goes to a place not first intended.

Like Obama, I offer an obligatory rebuke of Rev. Wright's sentiments. I do, however, receive Rev. Wright's remarks with tongue in cheek jocularity...indeed....I dismiss them as part of the African-American caricature of the Black Experience in America.

I have attended almost a hundred African-American congregations, and have noted a gift of hyperbole and caricature in most African American preaching.

Most of the preaching of this sort is meant to convey, not fact,but feeling; not truth but rapport with the audience.

I do wonder, in times like this, if Rev. Wright might not be like an angry IMAM, whose ability to fan the ire of his congregation, ultimately takes over and goes to a place not first intended.

Several years ago I left a church because the minister bothered me -- this was after 6 years of feeling that way. I stuck around because I loved the congregation. Many people felt the way I did, but stayed on.

Recently, I left another church for a different reason - I had become an atheist. Still, it was hard to leave, because I really liked the community.

Pastor Wright is not a racist, nor is he anti-American, he is a passionate preacher. Rather than peddle pablum and weigh his remarks against public opinion polls he offered an unvarnished Christian reaction to what he perceived to be a national hypocrisy. Rather than defend his pastor as a man of God with strong opinions, Obama denounced him, a response that throws considerable doubts upon the strength of Obama's convictions. Whomever floated this political football has cleverly demonstrated how much of tap dancer the Senator from Illinois really is.

This is just a retake on the canon "Who among us is without sin" ... and it is of striking appropriateness and pertinence.

Well said!

Having been a pastor for much of my adult life, I am certain that I have spoken or done things that made members of my congregation squirm. I suspect that if the press went through my sermons, they could easily find outrageous remarks that would not gel with the whole of the American public. I am thankful that my words and ministry have not been included in the midst of this campaign. After all, the claims of the Gospel are at odds with politics.

Sally Quinn is quite poignant in suggesting that not a one of us would fair well if the church/religious company we keep were scrutinized.

As a country we're a bunch of fricken idiots anyway. Consider that Howard Dean was the Dem front runner four years ago until he let out a funny scream. That was enough for most folks... the man clearly gad to go.

The idea that people are trying to "out" Barack for denying he was at one particular church service, when the Clintons have so much, SO MUCH, to hide. So dig up stories on Obama's house, or Tony Rezko, or whatever... Then wait and see how bad it is for a presidential candidate to begin a trial for FRAUD in the last four weeks before the election. (google "peter-paul vs. clintons". then talk)

Jackson was called in by Bill Clinton, not Hillary. And it's always a mistake to call in Jesse Jackson. Jackson's "love child" scandal came after the Lewinsky business.

But none of this is comparable to Obama's very close, 20-year relationship with Jeremiah Wright, which is chronicled in both of his books. Obama describes Wright as his "mentor", "moral compass" and "sounding board."

Of course, that's all history now. Like Brzezinski, Samantha Power, Alice Palmer, Tony Rezko, and other ex-associates who have suddenly become inconvenient, Wright has been tossed under the bus.

Sally, I'm not sure if I understood your argument. I just see a bunch of anecdotes about how other political leaders and religious leaders have said or done bad things. I don't know what this has to do with Rev. Wright. and Barak Obama.

Is your argument "other Presidents and their religious advisors have been liars, philanderers and racists, so it's O.K. for Barak Obama's spiritual mentor to make Anti-American and racist comments"? Your opening words, "much has been made", say it all about your attitiude. You're calling this a tempest in a teapot. I disagree.

Rev. Wright is an America-hating race-baiter. A man who's hared for America is so profond that he doesn't just tell people in private, he shouts it for the wolrd to hear. He shout's it from the pulpit, that not only does he hate America, bu he thinks that you are morally obligated to hate America too. The Obama family attended a church where this was considered acceptable and admirable public behavior.

Rev. Wright is a racist. He hates white people. He wants you to hate white people. He wants you to believe that hating white people is the right thing to do. He believes this so strongly - and considers this belief sufficiently socially acceptable - that he preaches it from the pulpit. He doesn't whisper, sotto voce, to his friends and confidantes that he hates members of another race, he announces it proudly. I don't want to see him mentoring the President in the White House. I don't want a guy in the White House who attends a racist church. I don't want a President whose wife has been ashamed of America for her entire life.

Barak Obama would be a bad choice for President. Much has been made of this because it's news, important information about a man running for President.

What good is history if we don't learn from it. I couldn't accept counsel from someone whose views are so messed up. I am a spiritual leader and I can & do look at things objectively. Obama has been listening to this man for 20 years. The Clintons and Jesse Jackson don't go back that far. Obama now says that his pastor, his inspiration, is kind of like that "crazy" uncle that we all have...we love him but we don't take him too seriously. Obama took him so seriously that he let him perform his marriage ceremony and do his baptisms. I've known for years that Obama's church would be a thorn in his side and it's finally coming to light. That is a hateful church (as a whole) and Obama chose to stay there for the past 20 years. If this was a white candidate going to a church that spoke disparagingly against African Americans, the entire church (along with the candidate) would be painted with the same stroke: racist. Why does this not hold true for Obama? I know why...it's because he's black. I am black as well and I'm ashamed of him, his church, and the democratic party for giving him a pass. We can't have a double standard here...the stakes are too high.

Sally: You're just another Obama apologist and excuse maker and honestly you sound rather lame in the exercise of it as do all the others. Simply because A was wrong and B was wrong and were not punished for it, it doesn't follow that C should be exonerated because he is wrong in a similar way. But in fact his wrongness is much more profound than the examples you cite due to his voluntary and long term association with this bigot. True patriotism to my thinking is not making apologies and excuses for presidential candidates who have long term associations with racists and unpatriotic persons who give awards to notorious anti-semites. This is a vetting process of who is worthy of being president. Clearly, after this revelation and the unbelievable denials of Obama pleading ignorance, clearly he is not worthy of being president of the United States.

This is a bit off to the situation. Obama maintained 20 years for association, accepting Rev Wright as his pastor. It is not the other way around, meaning it is not Obama counseling Rev Wright. Second, Pres Clinton made an error in judgment and the pastor was called in to mediate within the family. Obama, by not disassociating himself with the pastor, was supporting him. Jackson, in Clinton's case, was precisely called in to heal the wounds created by Clinton's acts. In Obama's case, the continuing actions by the preacher encouraged him to continue. Lastly, in the Gospel, it was mentioned that if the one being counseled does not heed the call of the preacher, the preacher is supposed to disassociate himself from that person. Obama did not disassociate himself, in fact, he willfully continued his association for 20 years.

Based on that association, it is not unreasonable to conclude that Obama probably agreed to the pastor's teaching. Actually, one should further ask, why did Obama just disassociate himself now? Was it because there was pressure from the media or was he acting based on some polls? If so, I am having serious doubts about his leadership, courage and judgment to lead. Moreover, if this is the case, there is hypocrisy here in the sense that he criticized Clinton for acting based on polls, whereas he himself is doing the same thing.

Church membership is CHURCH MEMBERSHIP. Obama didn't leave the church!

Excellent.

"Nor did they repudiate him for recognizing the PLO or Yasser Arafat, or for embracing Arafat and Syrian Preisdent Hafez Assad, or for accepting Arab money for two of his organizations."

"Accepting Arab money"? That's pretty damn racist. Would you also criticize people for "accepting Jewish money" or "accepting Black money"?

Fitting for an article about how we are all guilty of tolerating racism.

Senator Obama has denied knowledge of pastor Wright's racist comments.

Senator Obama was never present when pastor Wright uttered his racist comments.

When will people like Obama learn - it's always the cover up that gets them in trouble.

His wife said that she was finally proud to be an American. The campaign tried to smooth that one over. Now we can see why Senator Obama's wife made that comment - listening to pastor Wright's sermons.

I am afraid that you and the media are still providing cover for Senator Obama. Unlike Senator Clinton where she is ripped for anything and everything. What a double standard.

Sally Quinn, I didn't like you much when your husband ran the Post and well, even less now that your carrying the Barack Obama banner.

Let us never forget that repudiation often helps cleanse the soul. However, we should always work at restoration. When someone has a moral failure it is up to the rest of us to restore them to a good moral standing. We can do so by repudiating their comments and also by lovingly praying for them or with them. But, open repuduation is a good start. Let the world know we expect better from our religious leaders. Far worse is to just close our eyes, hide our head in the sand and do nothing. Barack was far to late in his repudiation of this pastor. If he had repudiated him when he was making these outlandish statements, then possibly the pastor would have seen the divisiveness of his ways and stopped. Being a church member does not mean we should sit on the pews and do nothing when a pastor is ranting like this one did. His behavior was not only morally unacceptable, but was vulgar and reprehensible. I say that as a former pastor myself.

If your father is a rascist there's not much you can do about it. If the preacher at your church is rascist you should join another church, especially if you have political aspirations. That's what people don't get about Obama.

This guy was accusing the government of creating AIDS to kill black people. That kind of rhetoric is ridiculus and dangerous on top of that. It inspires people to be angry or seek revenge for no reason. Obama should have distanced himself a long time ago.

Thank you for your insightful and heart-felt appraisal of the ridiculous political banter concerning the associates of candidates. How shallow have we become as a society in a time where, I dare say, all of us have relationships with someone who is acting neither morally nor in their own best interest. We seem to want to hold no one accountable for their own actions, yet want to crucify some for the actions of others with whom they simply know.

Thank you for this well written reflection.

What I cannot fathom is the direct linkage between pastor and parishioner. I am am Protestant pastor of a liberal persuasion. I have parishioners who are well to the right and left of me, that does not mean they agree with everything I say. It also does not mean that they do not hold my feet to the fire and question my thoughts and sermons.

The issue over Dr. Wright's sermons is a gross exaggeration of some to make an issue of his right granted by the congregation of the freedom of the pulpit. And the gross exaggeration of snippets of a sermon with no context.

Can a pastor not reveal what is on her/his heart, even if it offends and congregants? Can a preacher not express his convictions even if some in the white community may find them offensive? Can one not preach judgment, especially when so much injustice has been conducted in the name of Christianity in this country?

I think the real question is simple - how much of what this Pastor preaches do the Obama's believe but hide for political expediency?

Does this explain Michelle Obama's remarks - a sample of anti-American sentiment? Is it easier for Barack to hide his true feelings because he is a politician?

We don't know enough about this person running for president.

The anti-America statements and the clear disdain for white people is the main issues I have for the pastor. I'm sure he made those feelings apparent to Barack over the 20 years. To not choose another church when there are plenty in the Chicago area to choose from makes me question his judgment. Also the fact that I am white. It does play a roll now that I've found this out. What if he does hate me deap inside. We all know the media has not really informed us on who this man is and the 2 things that have came out,(Rezko, Wright)doesn't make me trust this man anymore. Also the clear double standard that is taking place. If this was Hillary Clinton, the race would be over the next day because they would have burned her at the stake. Trent Lott had to go because he gave a old man a compliment at his 90 something birthday party. If we are going to hold white politicians to a standard and not the black politicians, well I don't think that is fair and neither does most people. Obama surrogates have came on and said that this isn't a big deal. They say that alot of black churches are this way and we should just chalk this up to a "black thing" I hope thats not true. What if I came on TV and defended someone like David Duke. What if I just said "oh thats just what we do in a white church". Would that end the conversation with African Americans and make it better? Black America think that since there ancestors went through slavery and maybe there grandparents went through Jim Crowe makes it ok to hate white people openly. I'm sorry but its 2008. Those arguments do not work anymore. I'm white and I'm not wealthy. Actually I live around the poverty line just like a lot of people. We are all equal and we should have equal standards. My personal view is that Obama needs to step out of the way because he will never win the white house after this. I don't hate the man but I know now that as reasonable as I am I would never vote for him now. I'm sure a lot of people feel that way too. My main concern is getting a Democrat in the white house and that is no longer plausible for Senator Obama. If he does win the nomination there is no way he'll survive the 527 republican noise machine. Sorry but thats what I think .

Finally someone who gets it! I refuse to believe that the voting public is so ignorant that they can be led like sheep by conservative talk show hosts who are exploiting this for political gain.

I grew up catholic and my 70 year old Mother has been Catholic her entire life. We all know the leadership of the Catholic church systematically hid child molesters and in so doing allowed this crime to go on for years. Yet I have heard no one calling for Catholics to repudiate their religion, renounce Catholicism, or even holding them responsible for being complicit in the deeds of their church. This attack on Rev. Wright and on Sen. Obama is another of many dirty tricks the far right specializes in. What saddens me is the masses of the American people appear to not see this for what it is.

Thanks for a refreshing and different viewpoint on this issue. While I'd prefer less religion in politics, it's helpful to consider that these are just humans seeking advice from fellow humans.

I find your article really an eye opener. When we hear comments out of context its really difficult to judge a person or a situation. I am not a Barack Obama fan but I have seen situation in my Church where the pastor said something which I didn't agree with but I didn't stop going to the church. Thanks for your article and thanks for providing some perspective.

How much money did you give to the Obama campaign this year, Sally?