Equal Rights for All Includes Marital Rights

I agree that same sex couples should have a legal protection in their relationships. In fact, I think that legally one shouldn't even have to be gay or even "married" to benefit from a these legal protections. If two people of the same sex choose to live together and support each other I think they both should have the same civil rights as "husband and wife".

And stupidly, the government things they can stop the relationships of GLBTQ's by saying their marriages aren't legal while all they while "illegal" marriage ceremonies are happening where true love and commitment prevail over prejudice and ignorance. Everyone deserves to be able to share their lives with whom they choose

Finally, I have a question about the article. What does the word zauj mean?

Assalaam`u`Alaikum,

I would just like to say that I find this article to be very interesting. The sad thing about it all is the fact that it will not get mainstram media attention. Simply because the world views Islam (especially in the U.S.) as a group of murders and homosexual as an Anti-religious factor. hopefully the world we apologize for its hatred and ignorance.

Paganplace:

I have read and admired hundreds of your posts over the months, so what is this crap: "the way to counter straights' irrational fears that allowing gay marriages to be recognized would take away something about their marriage is". All straights do not believe just one thing. We are no more a monolith than you are. Tens of millions of straight Americans endorse same-sex marriage. Frankly, you have violated the first rule of not being a bigot - don't lump everyone of a group into the same mindset. Shame on you girl. You probably didn't mean it the way I read it, but we all need to be careful how we say things when irritated. Otherwise, we offend those who are naturally our friends.

"Muslims, Jews, and Chrstians who oppose gay marriage have the right to do so. "

Not in terms of the American justice system, actually, Bassam.

Your freedom of religion ends, as described in a common metaphor, ...when your fist hits my face.

In America, we're free to believe what we like, religiously, but under our Constitution, this does not give anyone, even a majority, the right to deny minorities equal protection under the law.

Probably one could raise a majority at many polling places to outlaw Islam, or any non-majority religion or sect, right about now, but our Constitution protects us all from this.

Yes, you can *talk* as if the Biblical story of Sodom and whatever the heck Gomorrah did, (apparently even angels get secondary targets) ..as if it were about homosexuality and a good reason to screw new Orleans over a parade or hope San Fransisco gets bombed, but even that story is clearly about *hospitality, not gay people.*

The mob in the story (Sodom was supposed to be 'all kinds of wicked' but in the story, the big problem was they were *afraid of strangers.* The torches-and-pitchforks crowd weren't looking for 'fresh booty,' ...they wanted to *interrogate* the (unbeknownst to them) angelic messengers Lot gave couch space. In the culture of that region, as many others, once someone is a guest under one's roof, the protection of that roof is *absolute,* and it would have been a great shame on that house if Lot allowed it to be violated.

When Lot offered his daughters to the supposedly-gay crowd, (huh?) it wasn't meaning they wanted to rape his guests, but rather, he was clearly trying to *shame* the mob out of dishonoring his house by *interrogating* (Sometimes 'know' just means 'know,') his guests... if he allowed that to happen, his daughters *may as well* be dishonored, cause that's how such customs work, like it or not.

Gods. It's not that hard.

I know you don't think much of Pagans, but that story just ain't that incomprehensible, except maybe in terms of measured response... 'nuking' two cities when maybe a smart-missile thunderbolt or two would do. :)

In America, we have certain unalienable rights, considered to be *inherent to how people are made, inherently,* ...Inalienable. They cannot be taken away, even by those who claim to speak for some God.

This is to *keep us from ending up like Sodom. As in, thinking we can drag the 'strange' out from under our roof, cause someone can make us think it's 'right.'*

Equality, and inalienable human rights, and equal protection under the law, *that* is our roof.

That's our national honor, and what we're sworn to uphold, enhance, and perfect.

We should not 'look back' to darker days. When being queer, or non-Christian, or non-white, or non-Protestant, was routinely taken, by too many, to mean Liberty's protections didn't apply to one.

Those darker days aren't so far behind us.

Not at all.

Assalamu Alaykum, sister Pamela,

Well said.

I would like to respond to some of the comments:

Muslims, Jews, and Chrstians who oppose gay marriage have the right to do so. Other moderate Muslims, Jews, and Chrstians have the same right to voice their liberal opinions.

What is not permitted in a Western society governed by modern laws is to refer to the punishment of the people of Lot (or Lut) in the Holy Bible (or the Holy Quran) every time homosexuality is discussed in a way that seems like hate speech triggering gay bashing, which we still fac on campuses in America and in various cities or states.

Whether you reject to be labeled "homophobe" or embrace the label, please do not go over board with enforcing your interpretation of the holy books onto everyone. Let God be the judge at the end. Do not appoint yoursleves as moral judges on Earth.

Bassam

patrick@onlyjesussaves.com

God has a Plan, it is not your plan, it is not my plan, it is God's Plan.

I have been chosen by God to tell the world that God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable, the captives shall be released and the dead shall rise.

I don't have to take any test, I know I am a sinner. I am not here to tell you or anyone else what to do.

As far as the ten commandments go, Jesus boiled them down to two commands and you really could say that He boiled them down to ONE WORD and that Word is LOVE. Since God is a Being of Pure Love, then God, Himself, is the LAW.

God does not fit into whatever box you wish to put Him in.

By the way, the lake of fire and hell are not the same.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Pamela,

Your gay opinion brings REAL YOU out of the Muslim Hijab hide out. What you said is not even close to Islam. It sounds like some gay cult representation.

In Quran nation of Prophet Lot distroyed. And every single muslim knows why!

So now its time you better show up your real face?

Thomas Baum, It would be wrong if what I said were NOT true. But the facts belie the reality that deviance is wrong, against order and civility. But the most important point is that the Bible clearly says such actions are a sin against Yahweh's Law.
What you may have missed is this: If it were not so your own conscience would not be confirming it, as it does. Deviance is exactly that, deviating from what is normal and ordained by Yahweh. To state otherwise is to lie, and THAT would be sin.
If I knew you were headed for a terrible death and lied about it, like so you would like me, you would hate me for it when you discovered the truth, and rightly so. Thomas, it is just plain nonsense to say we should not tell others what is true when we know it, and you know that.
So here it is, the truth as plain as it comes:
Your sins (your lies, stealing, lusting; All Ten Commandment violations) are against Yahweh and can only be paid by you in Hell and the Eternal Lake of Fire, after your death. But God does want to give you Mercy: Jesus died to save you from Hell. Take this test and see where you fail and why you need saving: http://theGoodPersonTest.com
NO ONE needs to go to Hell. But God will LET you go there if you insist on your way. It's your choice, as it should be. But to do what is right is always what is true.

People should never use God to justify their hatreds. Forcing oneself on another in any way is wrong. God gave us free will and if we believe something is wrong that we shouldn't do it. But to force ourselves or our beliefs on others is not godly.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

salam,

wow! thank you so much, pamela ! this is very powerful. :)

afdhere

Pamela,
I hope you are preverting Islam to appease a certaing segment of society.Let us be clear on the position of Islam: marriage is an institution,a family,and a relationship between a man and a women and a most important foundation on which society exists.

Partnerships between humans and of the same sex is considered unnatural and unlawful in Islam as it's in Judaism and Christiaity.

In a secular soceity like America,religious opinions and values can not be imposed on citizens but Muslims,Christians and Jews can speak up against same sex marraiges and yet if they insist then that is between them and God.

Pamela:It is fundamntal that that you don't mix or confuse the position of Islam with your own personal opinions.

DEVIANCE has no EQUAL RIGHT except to be judged as such. PERIOD.

Thank you sister. Salaam. Things are changing slowly and a voice like yours is an oasis in a painfully hot desert for many souls that have been forgotten or mistreated by the establishment. peace.

The same religious extremists who claim Islam and polarize many people against Muslims have also managed to scare many moderate and progressive Muslims into keeping quiet about their beliefs.

Thank you for letting your voice be heard, and for representing people like me -- Muslim, queer, and a believer in democracy.

Google to go:

epistle.us/hbarticles/neareast.html

Excerpt:

" First, homosexuality in many forms pervaded the ancient Near East, and with more openness beyond Egypt. As long as persons got married and had families, homoerotic activity was generally accepted as part and parcel of life. Still, there was a certain stigma attached to a man who took the passive, womanly role in a sexual relationship.

Recently:

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0377/is_n112/ai_14466341/pg_4:

Excerpt:
Edward Westermark observed that "it is a common belief among the Arabic-speaking mountaineers of Northern Morocco that a boy cannot learn the Koran well unless a scribe commits pederasty with him. So also an apprentice is supposed to learn his trade by having intercourse with his master."(9)

And these comments by the author of the article: findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0377/is_n112/ai_14466341/pg_4:

“The Hebrew Bible, in particular the Torah (the first five books of the Bible), has done more to civilize the world than any other book or idea in history. It is the Hebrew Bible that gave humanity such ideas as a universal, moral, loving God; ethical obligations to this God; the need for history to move forward to moral and spiritual redemption; the belief that history has meaning; and the notion that human freedom and social justice are the divinely desired states for all people. It gave the world the Ten Commandments and ethical monotheism.

See the added Torah qualifications by the author, Dennis Prager

And from:

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0377/is_n112/ai_14466341/pg_14

“Just as we owe homosexuals humane, decent, and respectful conduct, homosexuals owe the same to the rest of us. Homosexuals' use of the term "homophobic," however, violates this rule as much as heterosexuals' use of the term "f t" does.”

When the term "homophobic" is used to describe anyone who believes that heterosexuality should remain Western society's ideal, it is quite simply a contemporary form of McCarthyism. In fact, it is more insidious than the late senator's use of "communist." For one thing, there was and is such a thing as a communist. But "homophobia" masquerades as a scientific description of a phobia that does not exist in any medical list of phobias.”

May 22, 2008 6:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Thank you for your views, sister. Thank you for standing up for those whose voices are often squelched in religious circles. I believe in a loving God. I cannot believe that people who have a certain orientation from birth would be destined to live a life full of suffering never allowed to love or be loved in a romantic way. Thank you for speaking up for the truth.

Ah, yeah, www, the way to counter straights' irrational fears that allowing gay marriages to be recognized would take away something about their marriage is... To take away marriage to avoid dealing with bigotry about gay marriage?

Let's stick with the realistic, here, my actual life is involved, thanks.

A better solution is to end marriage completely in favor of universal domestic partnership.
http://www.futureosophy.com/2008/05/overturning-marriage.html

So if the word used hadn't been "zauj", all consideration of gay marriage would have stopped right there?