Another Travesty in the Name of Islam

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/donna_freitas/2008/02/secularismtalk_only_meaningful/all_comments.html

the bishop in England asks for full Islam

the islam after the family which poisoned Prophet Ahmet and tortured Grandsons of Ahmet and entered their traditions in

Bishop in England is with MAster of Egypt
LAdy Diana was with Egyptian Dodi el FAyed.

the Independent in a cartoon named Sarkozy "Ugly"
U-G-L-Y, uncontrolled will for victory with employment of religions

Bishop is from Canterbury.

posted in St PAul CAthedral, orthodox and in relation with Russians and Anglican-catholicism.

to Williams President Bush please

this mountain is known with Zeus and Phoneicians are known with language and alphabet. in these years, i have given birth to many children.

i am full with apple and pear, i want Orange, with Mary and Fatima.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/c_welton_gaddy/2008/02/the_race_for_pastorinchief/all_comments.html

Consider if Islam itself may be a travesty that needs purging.

So Levent Alkan is not Victoria.

My sincere apologies to Victoria.

LEVENT ALKAN needs help: he/she could be high on drugs or having a psychotic episode.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/c_welton_gaddy/2008/02/the_race_for_pastorinchief/all_comments.html

all parties have put spells on each other and i beg each party, leave the spells.

my "wife" was three years ago in a Spanish-VEnice foundation Yeni Yuksektepe in Bursa. she was walking in Native American Meditation she had learned at the foundation. i had announced as "there is a thief here".

at primary school i was first at composition contest with a subject for DAy of Teachers. i had the flag at the ceremonies and we lived near the first place of prayer for government of Ottomans.

after primary school, i attended KAdikoy Anadolu Lisesi as free boarder student. it was a monastry for missionaries and nuns before World War. Ottoman and his son Orphan are in a monastry today. Lycee of St Joseph was near the school.

then my father bankrupted, we had two fires, we had an accident on the road to Eskisehir. mother and father divorced, he is in debt about 60.000 YTL queued in his monthly payment of retirement from Air Force 800 YTL per month. then after university i was writing in Crimson Circle and Kryon groups.

Bilkent University announced 3D in light projection mobile and television communications. Bilkent is owner of Hacettepe. they are known with masonry and french education.

Armenians were in peace in Bursa before World War. i supported Armenians and have been amongst three spellers and world events. President Abdullah Gul hugged Embassy of Vatican.

the apartment in which my wife and i live is near closed French catholic church, and House of French Embassy, on graveyard of French men.

here were French and Armenians and Greeks. here were the women were hanged. here was the brothel for French soldiers. here is the company of Kahraman MAras, rented from City Private Government.

my wife is a geology engineer in this City Private Government, previous Village Services

my "wife" is from Bitlis Adilcevaz. we are in debt for about 40.000 YTL.

Bitlis sounds as Beatles and Adilcevaz is "fair commentary". Bitlis is city of Said Nursi. at university in HAcettepe i was for one year with READERS of Said Nursi. i had been in a few meetings of the RPG Tolkien Group of Literature of English in Hacettepe. Hacettepe is in Ankara. i was born in Eskisehir and my father is in Gallipolis GElibolu. i walk with Ataturk and Education and Justice and Ali, FAther of Grandsons and Husband of Daughter of Ahmet. grandparents have come from Skopje Macedonia, and Skopje is known with Gaziantep too. my father was with Mevlana Konya. but my mother is with Ali and Fatima.

from NASA "Across the Universe" of Beatles of Indian Guru. Pakistan is an Indian civilization. BEnazir Bhutto is known yto be granddaughter of Selahaddin Eyyubi. my mother is in Uskudar near Eyyubi College. in Uskudar is the Student of Uftade of Hizir of READER.

last night, a man from NASA, white curly hair, was in black cloths and stood on his feet, his legs straight and open as wide as his shoulders. he was lighting matches and throwing out. he said " we have succeeded to keep all beatless in body and alive. we have such an order that ... ".

Prime Minister of Turkish Republic is from Rize. He mentioned the value of education and invited to education in Germany with Merkel Prime Minister of Germany with students of university.

Firat River waters this city before North Iraq.

Kara Yilan, GAziantep,
Tomris Giritlioglu,

Taylan Biraderler (Taylan Brothers)
Wachowski (Warsaw-ians) Brothers

Tomris Giritlioglu, 1955, Adana

HAcettepe University Literature of English
(department known with Tolkien and RPG)

Giritlioglu, Cretians
Girit, Crete

UND Adriatic, Ikarus Palace,
in front of Croatia

this RoRo ship was of Ulusoy FAmily of Black Sea
purchased by KKR USA Company, in Rize of nuts (celtic region)

Kohlberg Kravis Roberts
Ulusoy Family, largest company of land and sea transportation
Port of Cesme to greece belongs to Ulusoy.

Cesme, founded by Cretens
Lydians lived here and Alexander Great freed from Persians. Temple of Athena is here.

Russian Abromowitz anchored his yatch in front of Cesme and in the middle of Bosphorus, in front of Palace of Ciragan

in Ciragan Palace (cookies or amateurs or candles) were many vital agreements signed.

Cesme is known after II Bayezid, Son of Istanbul
Brother of Cem Sultan, Cem Sultan died in France near Rhodos Knights. Rhodos Knights had been taken out of Izmir by Timur and Tatars

Cem Sultan was a poet and Pope VIII Innocentius
had requested 40.000 gold coins for accomodation of Cem Sultan.

Besiktas of Ciragan, Taksim, GAziantep, Konya, Mevlevi of Mevlana Rumi. CEm Sultan, Konya, Bursa, Ankara. Hizir, Uftade, Bayram Veli, Emirsultan

Mevlana Rumi visited by prince Charles and His Wife.

LAurence Andrew Wachowski Brothers

Chicago, Illinois, carpentry, Tolkien,
St Francisco, Matrix, Poland, Auschwitz

Berlin Merlin, Merry Celt

Ludwigshafen Rhein

Celts, GErmens
Romans and French revolution

Poland Tatars, Russian Tatars
Lenin, Tataristan University

Thailand, Malaysia,
Prince Andrew

Gaziantep, Center of Pilgrimage of Romans
name of GAziantep is CAstle of Ring, where governor had resentment

also Fountain, Beautiful Water, endurance and strength. Firat River ater this city before flowing to North of Iraq.

i had applied for MAdrid Agreement for Solen Chocolate Company of GAziantep, from MArmara in Bursa to Thomas Auslander in New York
later registered on September 11th 2001 in Ankara.

GAziantep, city of Assyrians and Hittitians
Salahaddin Eyyubi and Crusaders had met here.

Independente Evriyali, Romania and Greece,
November 15th, 1979, in Bosphorus,

LEVENT ALKAN reads like Victoria.

Victoria is married to a Turkish Muslim,
Victoria has practised all the religions she now bashes,
Victoria is well read,
Victoria shares the values of American hippies,
Victoria's propagation of Islam is the aberration,
Allah only knows why she does it,
She must have something to gain,
Only Allah knows what it is...

how can we greet with our two hands together

this is the main point

we shall breath, we shall hear
and we shall see the front of our nose with both sides

with right eye we shall look at the right side of the nose
with left eye we shall look at the left side of the nose

we shall see the right side of the nose with our right eye
we shall see the left side of the nose with our left eye

we shall breath and we shall hear
can you do these four together while you are seated in ease

then we shall see the front of the nose with both sides,
breathing and hearing.

be seated on the floor on your back
take your knees up, your feet on the ground

put a book on your belly
ascend and descend the book with breathing

then put a glass of water on the book
and feel free to take her up and down

then be seated on the ground your belly on the ground
stretch your arms and legs, breath in and out
and let your body go up and come down with your belly.

put your tongue between your front teeth
and from your belly, push breath to give out

put your tongue out and open your mouth
stretch your tonugue as far as you can

say "aoum" to bring your lips together
take your chin down as much as you can
and give the breath from your throat out of the nose.
this shall shake your nose and thymuse gland and body

children love this part so much,
especially kids at school

then take a look at stereograms, you shall see.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/nicholas_t_wright/2008/02/what_will_replace_secularism.html

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/nicholas_t_wright/2008/02/what_will_replace_secularism/all_comments.html

http://www.literatureclassics.com/showcreativeprint.asp?IDNo=1344

1342, 1343 and 1345 too

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/thomas_j_reese/2008/02/by_their_fruits_you_will_know_1/all_comments.html

Imam Pamela K Taylor does seem to propagate her own fictional, wishful version of Islam. Unwittingly by so doing she stands in the way of true reform of Islam.

If Mohammad advised his followers to go as far as China to acquire knowledge one would expect him to have begun by spending enough time with the Jews in Mecca and Medina, and Christians within easy reach, to acquire knowledge. He claimed that Gabriel had commanded him to confirm the Scripture of the Jews and Christians. If the Quran is to be believed he accused them instead of getting their own Scripture wrong and had three Jewish tribes slaughtered in spite of borrowing from Judaism.

The history of Islam shows that Muslims did not go to other countries to learn from them but to impose Islam and the Sharia Law on the countries they conquered. So in all likelihood, if Mohammad did instruct his followers to go as far as China, if history of the religion is anything to go by, it was more likely that Mohammad wanted his followers to convert the Chinese to Islam.

if any one on Earth has felt in peace with just a letter of a word, then may Him call me with peace.

i am glad bottom of my feet have touched onto the beloved FAce of Earth for 35 years.

and i am glad that i have learned a letter of a word in these years.

ben gidip calisayim da biraz para kazanayim en iyisi. borclarim artacak galiba.

KAradeniz, Rize

Denizli Horoz, KAplica, Sumele MAnastiri
Meryem Ana, SAntorini, Torino, Trabzon

Bursa, Sister City

http://turksavaslari.com/sayfa.php?sayfa=1252797.1228026.4126731.0.0.php

Wax of Merkel,

prime minister of Germany
in Museum, lively and alive in London
a few steps to Williams George Bush

Pope Benedictus, SArkozy, MErkel
VAtican, KArl Rowe

Crotia, RORO Ship UND Adriatic,

passengers saved by Ikarus PAlace to Venice
Ikarus, Hungarian Trademark, Greek Ship

there are 187 trucks on board.

1. (Greek Mythology) son of Daedalus. icarus (greek mythology) son of daedalus; while escaping from crete with his father (using the wings daedalus had made) he flew too close to the sun and the wax melted and he fell into the aegean and drowned [syn: icarus].

2. in ancient Greek stories, the son of the inventor Daedalus, who made wings fastened together with wax for himself and Icarus so that they could escape from the island of Crete by flying. But Icarus flew too close to the sun, so that the wax melted, and he fell and died.

Gallatian Tower, HAzarfen, Leonardo da Vinci
Istanbul

in GAziosmanpasa Kucukkoy, a cut head of a woman was thrown to the street in front of public and run over by those in a Black Mercedes.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/8182770.asp?gid=229&sz=61314

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/susan_brooks_thistlethwaite/2008/02/its_the_religion_stupid/all_comments.html

Arkansas Germen
Turks burnt in Germany Ludwigshofen

published in daily Mail,
copyright license paid to Hurriyet.

Mrs Thistlethwaite

tornado
thunderstorm

Thor
thunder

thorne
Silybum Marianum
thistle

on AP on Yahoo,
the title of the video is from Denmark

Arkansas
Mike Huckabee

YAhoo
FOX TV

George Soros

KArl Rove
Barack Obama

and also a beatiful butterfly
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nmahoney/1356796925/

there shall not be conversion, love already renders.

as far as i see, we have met Thor here. we have talked about Flux Seeds between Two Cotton Cloths in Hot Milk to Heal Cold, Anadolu Armenia and AFrica.

we have talked about two lobs in the head and keeping them together. we have talked about prayer with two hands caressing onto face.

John McCain is named as Big Mac, meat between two slices of bread. bicycles also. Mitt Romney is between German and Scottish. he shall make up his mind, to Scottish in these months.

i had heard in an article about being a typewriter with white paper in but without any tape of ink to print the letters onto paper. the education is for unity and to have ink to write and connection.

so there are a few verbalizations. four wheels and cars, four archangels, two wheels and bicycles, hamburger, flax seeds and scarf.

regards.

No matter how The Obfuscating Jihadists, Thomas the "god seer" Baums et al present their religions, it all comes down to the basic formation of said religions and the historic reality and flaws in said formations. Who stole what movies and music from whom, whose missionairies forced conversions on what "godless" tribes, Moody gibberish, and other verbal screams and accusations are irrelevant in the scheme of foundation reality.

Scroll up to see once again that the only "religious reality" is:

DO NO HARM and LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.

And we do not need the biographers of some long dead, illiterate, warmongering Arab, or the biographers of some long dead, illiterate, Jewish preacher man/carpenter/peasant or the fictional characters of the OT or Joe Smith, the "Mormon-con" on how to accomplish this as it is just simple rationality!!!!

later aromatherapy and essential oils too.

thymuse gland is the bridge, is the shipdeck,
is the passport.

armenians name thymuse gland fist in the lungs, sibirians name thymuse gland beetroot. flax is for the thymuse gland. there is also a plant named as thyme (kekik).

secrete of thymuse gland is named as milk, juice, wine, honey, pear, sweet bread. it is known with AIDS too, also with the T hormones and immune system.

thymuse gland is the hands over the chest in the prayer. this is prayer of MAry. prayer of Ahmet is two hands open to energy and later caressing the face with the two hands.

bioenergy, reiki, other staff are just substitutes of Love and Laugh. in Milkyway is the energy, magnetics.

moreover, on Earth we are passing through the energies of the planets and stars that have pased on the path of the Whirled. we may take care of the packages from these planets too. the sun moves on a path too. as astronauts have not any weight, planets have not either.

for the scarf, texts are from unfermented half of circle bread and fermented bread in sweet liquid. heaven is under the feet of mothers. health is under the feet of grace.

tantra yoga is "tailor unity". with love and light, virtues and grace, faith and entertainment, we grow in unity, in family, in society.

tantra yoga is not for one night relations, or poligamy. it is at least for forty years. and then night and day are together. then it has been forty years : )

blessings.

in the head, there are two lobs. scarf in Scandinavian is to bring to sides together.

green and blue, turquoise is the colour of thymuse gland. it is three glands over thymuse gland, and three glands under thymuse gland.

i have a diploma as masseur, with reflexology and colourtherapy, since 1998.

Pamela Tailor,

in Sanskrit, pa: protect, guard

mela : night and day
mela : union, meeting, association, ink

in English, pa : father

thank you.

Two and A Half Man.
at least, they laugh immediately!

if body decomposes, then who goes to heaven or hell? if it is body, then make the Earth a heaven with magnetics. if it is the one in the body on Earth, then make the Earth a heaven with magnetics. (magneviyat)

for both of them, apply not the energy which breaks the magnetics, for both of them, afforest.

Gabrielle Solis
http :// en.wikipedia. org/wiki/ Eva_Longoria_Parker

Corpus Christi Texas
Mexican American, Oprah winfrey
St jude Hospital, Michael Douglas, Golden Globe

http :// tr.wikipedia. org/wiki/ Tony_Parker
San Antonio Spurs, french, Brussel

Dutch Mother, Afroamerican Father
Chicago University, PAmela Firestone

Hidayet Turkoglu, Sacramento, Sanantonio

http ://www.tema. org.tr/bisiklet/en/ indexen.html
bicycle from Istanbul to Australia.

american husband, on bicycle
volleyball, santa monica, amsterdam

is the husband related with Mitt Romney
and Bicycle Riders with Helmet and Suit?

why is Eva Longaria of De-seperate Housewives come here? when shall our sailboat have a peace amongst the waves?

why is there not any calm movie on TV?
a calm life please!

Mittle Roam Oneil?

Levent,

Have you had an opportunity to read the first article posted at the top of this page?

If you died tonight, are you sure you'd go to Heaven?

It is very important to know that the Law and the Prophets teach that if you don't know you're going, then you're not.

Hillary Clinton
John McCain

i did see John Huckabee last night with a white shirt with black squares on it, like scottish blanket in a crowd in audience. i think Huckabee left to McCain. he was gentle and free in spirit like a sportsman.

Microsoft, Soros, Fox TV
Google, Ubuntu,

George Bush, Williams Bush, Baseball
Yahoo, Cnbc-e, Linux, OpenSUSE

Barack Obama

golf, Antalya Kemer, cut forest,
Russians, Turkcell Advertorials.

Golden Oscar, Sun Dance,
Iraq, Iran, Russia, Saddam

World Trade Center,
Polish Pilot, Auschwitz.

Esperanto by Polish linguist Zamenhof
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._L._Zamenhof

MAdeline Albright

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madeline_Albright
Gilmore Girls

now we know why Capital of Turkey is Budapest from the mouth of South African Charlize Theron and Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan is Prime Minister of Hungary, by Morgan Stanley's economist.

now we know why Istanbul was Budapest from the mouth of South African Charlize Theron and Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan was Prime Minister of Hungary, by Morgan Stanley's economist.

yaptiginiz hersey kabak gibi meydanda, kim takiyor balkabagini kafaya ha Basbakan? Horoz musunuz BAlkabagi misiniz Basbakan, bunu soyle yeter.

Herodotus Halikarnassos Dinosorus
Aegean Sea, petrol oil wells, Saros Bay.

http :// en.wikipedia. org/ wiki/Soros
http :// en.wikipedia. org/ wiki/Saros_Bay
http: // www.saroskorfezi. com/

NAmik Kemal, Saros Bay.

http :// en.wikipedia. org/ wiki/Namik_Kemal
http :// en.wikipedia. org/ wiki/Saros
http :// en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/Herodotus

Afyon'da kimin evi vardi? HAcettepe merkez kampüste Mehmet Akif Ersoy vardi.

http :// en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/Mehmet_Akif_Ersoy
http :// www.hacettepe.edu. tr/english/ index.php

http :// www.uludag.edu. tr/english/

hayra yonelik degil Basbakan, hayra yonelik degil. laf soksan ne yazar, iyilestirmiyorsun BAsbakan! mert ol mert, savasacak tarafi yok bu isin, bak adam Vietnam Turklerin kokeni deyip giriyor, ic savasi ta neresinden tutuyor, Ruslar koruyor, sen ne yapiyorsun BAsbakan? tek tarafindan tutulmaz bu mesela Basbakan! ciddiyet nerede ya! zaman kum gibi Basbakan, girdi mi giriyor.

Hilmi Guler once cep telefonlarini kapatsin da milletin basi ferahlasin az da olsa. basortusu nasil olsa sicak tutacak bu yaz biraz. sevgililer gununde hem de, ah BAsbakan ah! ah BAsbakan ah!

to drill : cotton, to dig, to seed, to educate

Cambodia, Kuthumi

Merry Line Merlin
St Germain

a German archeologist announced last year in his book about Trojan War was not in Gallipolis but in Mersin Adana, with respect to Homeros, "Three Dots Halikarnauts", and historical village names.

name of University of Bursa is Uludag, originally Olympos. University is credited in American System, known with architects and carpenters.

is Prime Minister Prodi, had withdrawn, known with architects and carpenters too?

stein : stone

Sword Granted by Stein.

Kont Dracula

his story is like Incan Temple entrances
to invite friends and to keep foes defoe

in the daylight in a coffin in the house
at nights out of coffin and in the house

we talked about death coffin is for body
at nights it is easy for plenty of blood

house is for the magnetic realm on earth
dog teeth on the neck are known as snake

blood is life force, snake is for healer
kulah is for mastery Dracula draws culah

putting envoy on trunk stake is reminder
to be a tree and to walk in green forest

stake is share lesson hope Altili GAnyan
esegi saglam kaziga baglamak hatta bahis

Torino was announced to be a sister city
of Bursa of Nicaea of Nicholas of Sophia

in Trabzon, Priest Santorini is in peace
Augustus is in Torino with Julius Caesar

Roman God MArs adopted face, with smiley
Caesar was the Emperor to invade Britain

MArs had a Hound, for fear and for panic
Trojan asteroids are of MArs and Jupiter

of the wreck of a ship, sailing in space
Troja is not in GAllipolis but in Mersin

Frankenstein

with Courier New in Notepad

Levent,

You are a pest! People say Joszevs (sp?) doesn't make sense, but you certainly take the cake!

Knock it off already!!!

PLEASE PUT A HALT TO LEVANT ALKAN!!!!!

He (or IT) is ruining ON FAITH!!!

Levent, Levent, Levent,

Through all the "poetry" and Turkish gibberish, we assume you are saying:

NO ONE IS SAFE UNTIL THE KORAN IS "DEFLAWED"!!!!

Anonymous says,

"The September 11 attacks were a monstrous calling card from a world gone horribly wrong. The message may have been written by Bin Laden (who knows?) and delivered by his couriers, but it could well have been signed by the ghosts of the victims of America's old wars"

Anon is saying the Islamic Terror attacks are simply revenge for all of America's enemies.

You think?

If that's the Islamic motive: why are their terrorists maiming, raping, torturing, enslaving, beheading, and blowing up Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, Jews, Pagans, and Atheists and yes: even their fellow Muslims who step out of line all over the world?

I hate to say this- but because she is progressive and vocal in her views, even Pamela is probably watching her back..

The September 11 attacks were a monstrous calling card from a world gone horribly wrong. The message may have been written by Bin Laden (who knows?) and delivered by his couriers, but it could well have been signed by the ghosts of the victims of America's old wars. The millions killed in Korea, Vietnam and Cambodia, the 17,500 killed when Israel - backed by the US - invaded Lebanon in 1982, the 200,000 Iraqis killed in Operation Desert Storm, the thousands of Palestinians who have died fighting Israel's occupation of the West Bank. And the millions who died, in Yugoslavia, Somalia, Haiti, Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador, the Dominican Republic, Panama, at the hands of all the terrorists, dictators and genocidists whom the American government supported, trained, bankrolled and supplied with arms. And this is far from being a comprehensive list

why was an italian mobile company here, of Isbank of Ataturk and CHP, who did purchase it to be Avea? what is A-v-A? who is OGER of Lebanon? what is Turkcell of Lebanon for? where is Israel?

why dont you think of children? what is this war for? where is Ehud Barak of Lebanon attack, rejected withdrawal?

who is Vodafone of bees? is it from Britain? what is the difference between Turkcell and Vodafone?

why is Turkcell with Hen and London? are they British? why is Microsoft in Turkcell?

who are Norwegians, what do they want? they are here too. why did they collect seeds and foods named as Ship of Noah?

who is Sweden, why are they Viking and families of Turks? why did Sweden give Nobel to Orhan Pamuk? what is this footbal match for?

in this one hour i was shot two times, one from upside, one from downside

i was walking i was so light but now my legs are so heavy. i woke up with a vomit at night and before morning were faces of men

my stomach was cleaned

there were Morse ALphabet messages, they were 3D images printed on magnetic field, they were like packages

i heard this many times "you should have been naked in front of us". these are jews in concentration camps,

USA and Israel are together for this case,
Russians saved again

why do you work on Anadolu? why do you give more and more? why do you hurt new generations that you feed with your own food?

Japanese military satellites and GPS. who else do have space research?

the education of "apple and pear" as applied as double sim cards in Infinity Mobile Phones made in China by an Izmir Company belongs to me.

i am not able to move like before i was flying.

my magnetic body collapsed inside, folding on my belly, hard to stay straight up

Levent, Levent, Levent,

Through all the "poetry" and Turkish gibberish, we assume you are saying:

NO ONE IS SAFE UNTIL THE KORAN IS "DEFLAWED"!!!!

Moody, Moody, Moody,

Through all the Islamic gibberish, we assume you are saying:

NO ONE IS SAFE UNTIL THE KORAN IS "DEFLAWED"!!!!!

Hen Nichola
Heinrich Victory Three Eyes
Henry, unit electrical induction

Faraday, law of induction, basics of Tesla.
and electromagnetics. Benjamin Franklin, Self Inductance, electrical telegraph, Scotland New York. Phi - MAgnetic Flux, golden ratio. Schism Phi-Rene of Nichola Tesla.

within magnetic field, amount of current through a wire. like the direction of a car had been left over the floor in front of me.

where is Sony of DVD, of USA and Japan, of PSP without Hard Disc without CD Driver, with "wireless" internet access.

where is St George of Victory? who is "La Balançoire" of Renoir? is it balance with five black ribbons? what is a ribbon? who is a lady with a hat? who is a naked Athena in the Shell of golden ratio?

why did Renoir paint with ribbons and hats? is there any relation between Sony and Microsoft?

whose is the skull found stuck in the remains of the Ertugrul Ship that Ottomans had sent before First World War?

who is Ertugrul in Bilecik? he is father of Osman, Father of Founder of Ottoman. but Ertugrul was respectful. Ertugrul was different from Fatih Sultan Mehmet, Ertugrul was so different.

after 1980, Prime Minister and President Turgut Ozal of Malatya of George H Bush of Skull&Bones of Afghanistan of Green Belt of PKK had been in Bilecik in his childhood, his father was different from Bilecik, was so different.

Fatih Sultan Mehmet was so different while smelling a rose.

why did Suleyman Demirel of Morrison in USA and other governments approved by USA give Bosphorus Bridges to Japan?

for the money of Enola Gay?

JApan Government, you must have a difference with respect to your beliefs.

the underground in this city is by Siemens. under this city are chromium and boron. who did use the earth out of excavation? who shall get on this underground of Siemens?

shall Japanese women of Second World War get their money from Anadolu, JApan Government?

i have talked about Japan ANimations here

JApan Government, please take your housewomen and oldwomen out of this stock market. take your excavation troops out of CApital of Hittitians.

Susan Brooks have said that "...Now in the 21st century, war has degenerated to the point where killing civilians itself is the tactic..."

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/susan_brooks_thistlethwaite/2008/02/women_as_bombs_no_innocent_civ.html

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/kathleen_flake/2008/02/free_speech_and_right_speech.html

France, China, Istanbul, Airbus, Air Pollution, Whale Zepplin Hotel and Second World War Zepplin, Year of Mouse, Snow Storm, Energy Transfer Towers broken, trains works not. Boeing, Towers, Pilot from Poland, member of a foundation.

is TW, Taiwan

what is Taiwan's relations with Britain and Churchill? with Microsoft? BenQ-Siemens? what was the toys rejected for? whom is 2008 Olimpiads sponsored by?

Britain, War of Tea, rented Hong Kong? Gold worth 160G USD in the basement of WTCTT?

bits of bread is "lokma" in Turkish, from hebrew i suppose. was circle bread from german jews yiddish?

is "lekhem" bits of bread? "beth" is for house?
bits of bread is bethlekhem,

with fingers into sweet liquid. sweet is RAphael and Moses. who is known with fermented bread?

What an IRONI in the whole present world:

LOOK ALL OVER AROUND,

"ACTUAL KILLERS ALL IN CONTROL" CALLING/BRANDING WHO ARE BEING KILLED IN 'UNCOUNTALBE NUMBERS' AS KILLERS!!!!!!!!!

TO JUSTIFY THERE FURTHER NON STOPPING KILLINGS!!!

a few nigths ago before morning at night, i asked whether Quran is of Ahmet or some other guy. half of circle-bread unfermented dropped with noise and raising dust from the ground. then bits of fermented bread was put into sweet liquid with fore fingers. this was calm.

what Quran? where is Quran?

does anybody have an idea about Germany? Germany was against Russia, Britain, France and USA too.

what is World Trade Center Twin Towers? who are in WTC TW? Churchill, LAdy Diana, MArlborough and Britain in New York in USA.

Germany, Ulker, Government PArty AKP, what do these letters remind? Ulker was literally supposed to be Seven Sisters Pleiades with respect to Turkish literature and language.

i had seen an orange circle in the center of Cyprus. who are in this orange region? had she been carried to Cyprus from Mersin Tarsus?

Levent, Levent, Levent,

Through all the "poetry" and Turkish gibberish, we assume you are saying:

NO ONE IS SAFE UNTIL THE KORAN IS "DEFLAWED"!!!!

Rob Adams,

The sins of the koran and Islam go with you no matter where you go.

As a reminder:

Islam is not perfect and the koran inherently condones sin as shown 24/7 in the 800 year-old blood feud between Sunnis and Shiites. Their actions give significant credence that greed, suicides, assassinations, maiming, and murder are condoned by the koran. Having multiple wives also gives significant credence to the sins of rape, lust and polygamy. The condoned treatment of these wives gives credence that the koran allows the sins of hatred, anger and greed.

with Courier New in Notepad.

Heavenly Moralities

a word addressed by president of USA of numerous nations
to a public with Greek Roman ancestry till the year 1978
and a branch of faith after Ishmael, supported by Russia
of Greek and Roman ancestry and disapproval of religions

to a public developing iso disk burn image for operating
system with technology, space and nuclear energy, should
be considered as supported by Bush Putin alliance whilst
it has not set a light in education busy with satellites

now tell me, who shall heal Iran, who shall support Iran
after Iraq and Saddam? tell me who is supporting Anadolu
Her MAjesty, we are not ready for your gifts, we haven't
yet learned the languages on Microsoft and mobile phones

we have a government in relation with Russia and Britain
in relation with Germany and USA, with France and Africa
with Israel and Armenia, yet with Cuba and Argentina too
beloved Peru, Elders over Sixty have Half for each month

and we are all easy to be broken and misled in economics
we are not hacker but there are electromagnetics to hack
and to take bees out of their lands that they give honey
please leave us calm, and we should heal our honour with

with apologies for the history of the land we are living
we want Abraham of India that Russians took British away
we need milk, honey, bread and cheese to have our health
we must be sane to be able to grasp to have clear height

this is yet Seventh DAy of Yom Kippur September Eleventh
which saint is known with September? have USA apologized
for Green Belt though approve Islam not? did Holland yet
apologize for Afghanistan, did Russia for Armenia policy

Her MAjesty, you give us technology and Moses not health
we need to enliven our genetics, not amputation vehicles
we dont need cars but agriculture, they do not wake folk
have you met a calm gentle man, worth a few words to pay

where is Israel, where are Jews, where are Hebrew? where is Britain? who is Levon Petrosyan of Armenia? who is Kocaryan of Armenia?

i access internet in public centers. my ears are infected because of phones and i do not use mobile phones.

i always wondered the processors of computers in Russia. how did they happen to make those gigantic LCD screens?

how did Williams Bush happen to visit Viladimir Putin and went to fishing? Orthodox Church supported by Britain and Vatican in Anadolu, Putin and Bush rush to be in Anadolu.

lets see from the history, what do we have? Bush against VAtican and British. Putin against Vatican and British. where is France of Arabics?

to His Holiness Pope Benedictus

Embassy of Italy in Ankara visited Bursa two days ago. and i learned this visit yesterday on the news, here media is post-events.

did he come for me? he visited Trade and Industry Center. he visited Fiat Car company, and University rector.

His Holiness, there are great amount of taxes on goods. there are many French German Italian American companies here

i just have one shoes, one pants, one sweat shirt, one coat, two socks and two underwear.

there is anything in Anadolu but prices are different. i watch tv with antenna. TV is on the floor.

i took refrigerator, oven, washing machine out of house. i wash in a basket with my own hands.

i do not cook in the house, just a camp heater to warm water for plant tea. i buy from public market fruits and nuts and eat at public dining houses.

there are just two office chairs, one table for handcrafts and my wife and i sleep on the floor, on camp mates.

AHMED FROM BAHRAIN:

Thanks for the additional post.

You are correct in that we are all responsible in some fashion for the world we live. Be it foreign policy, religious belief, we are guilty by either our actions or inactions for helping create the world we live in.

You are correct that we can not wait for the world to change we can only change ourselves. If we all wait for the next person to change then who will start us off?

I share your belief we are all ONE. This is the grandest notion that if properly understood would change the world.

As for Concerned The Christian Now Liberated.

I think you are painting the picture with a wide brush. Muslims in “free” countries act much differently than Muslims with out such rights. Granted we are all responsible for our own actions but when fear, violence or the absence of free thought are something you grow up with the road is more difficult.

You could be right in that the literal interpretations of Islam may lend itself to violence more than another religion. I try to judge people on their actions and preferably I wouldn’t judge at all, but we all do to some extent. We (the west) can not control the radicals we can only control ourselves. I wouldn’t say we have shown them a better way. Better is a relative term any way.

Similar to Islam, free markets and capitalism are only tools to be used by man. Free markets have given us people without healthcare, poverty in the richest nation in the world. Under the guile of freedom we have people who can not escape their circumstance, even in America. We have food processing that makes us sick. “Healthy” food costs 10 times more than “unhealthy” food. Well at least the poor have food to eat so they can rack up medical bills for which they have no insurance. We have crime and greed. There are so many things that we (the west) could do. The travesty is we have the power, the freedom and the resources to make this planet great, yet we do not.

We(the human race) have all failed to this point to help each other move forward. Only when we realize we are all ONE will we take the next steps.

Ahmed,

Your brainwashing in Islam continues to ooze from all your commentary. Again the important issues for you to peruse:

Muslims by koranic laws, tenets and interpretations thereof by "redneck" imams and clerics:

1. Believe in "pretty/ugly wingie" thingies and teach their children that such fictional things really exist.

2. Believe that the long-dead Arab did actually talk to the "pretty Gabriel" in the hot "Gabe" cave and therein received the warmongering and anti-female words now listed in the koran.

3. That Sunnis believe they are superior to Shiites in all aspects of life. Shiites think the same way about Sunnis.

4. That Islam is perfect and the koran inherently condones no sin even though the 24/7, 800 year-old blood feud between Sunnis and Shiites gives significant credence that greed, hate, suicides, assassinations, maiming, and murder are condoned by the koran. Having multiple wives also gives significant credence to the sins of rape, adultery, lust and polygamy. The condoned treatment of these wives gives credence that the koran allows the sins of hatred, anger and greed.

Dear Rob Adams

That post was mine. Somehow I forgot to write my name but my post was accepted under anonymous. It should really not accept a post without a name? Room for improvement?

I address you as 'Dear' because you choose to join those who shun fear as their modus operandi and prefer love as an answer to solve our problems. In essence when we base our live on such belief then we really have no problem to solve. All we have are opportunities of how to create a better life for those less fortunate than us, even if they are our enemies. By by helping our enemy without laying down conditions, we turn tem into a friend. Such is the power of love energy than all other energies perish in its presence. Love pacifies the most ardent heart.

Leaders of civilised countries must not create policy based on fear. Besides 911 is the result of decades of US foreign policy of interference in ME. Americans do not want to know what their governments get upto overseas. Now you know and I am the first to acknowledge that violence does not solve any problems. It creates more violence.

A band of thugs killed many innocents in 911 to take revenge on what they saw as unjust foreign policy in the Middle East. People will use any tool to unite the masses. Patriotism, race and religion are some of the tunes that drum beats of war make the aspirants march to. Under threat and out of fear and anger, humans can turn into animals. Killing is justified for all sorts of reasons in all societies.

Responsibility lies with leaders of civilised world who have the power and money to lead the world towards unity. Those who did 911 should have been prosecuted as criminals and borought to justice. There was no need to carpet bomb nations and create millions of refugees and spend billions on on going wars. Plus all this was pre-panned pending a calamity to the proportion of 'Pearl Harbour', a was noted in pre Bush document PNAC.

This policy that America must protect its interests in ME is based on fear. What interest? If it is oil then we can't drink the stuff. Obviously it has to be sold at the market price to the will buyer. What better than to sell it to a friendly country. Trade creates friendship if based on fairness. No need for massive capital investment in foreign bases and production of arms. Spend the money by keeping an eye on your borders and use the surplus to cater for your own children, poor and provide free healthcare/education for every single American.

You will have plenty left over to help other poor nations, and not just prop up Israel even if it is at the cost of going to war. Israel can defend itself. It has 200 nukes. Try forcing it to give up such WMD just as you do with Iran, except in Iran case, Bush's policy is based on suspicion and drumming baseless fear.

Iran controlling ME and the world?!! This is the biggest joke in ME, lost on many Americans.

Again must go back to my Pink Floyd. Such good music. There is so much we could share, from cooking, to arts, to music, culture, etc. Imagine the resulting fusion?? Instead our leaders drum up fear and separation. Two toxic energies that has the potential to bring down humanity, yet I know that love will surmount all in the end, so why wait till the end. Let us each be a catalyst for change NOW. Change for the better.

I have changed without waiting for the world to change. It requires courage and stamina to stand alone. We are all ONE, each is a manifestation of the same ONEness. Like a garden made of variety of flowers, each with its unique hue and scent, including the weeds, for it too is a flower only defined so by the beholder.

Thus what we do to another we do to ourselves.

Peace.

Pamela,

I am sorry, but you are sugar-coating Islam to a point where you make it unbelievable.

If Islam is such a wonderful religion, why is that one can not disapprove of certain passages in the Koran without fearing severe reprisal and fear for ones life.

Why is it that women have so little freedom and men can do whatever they please?

Why is it that women have to cover up to varying degrees, yet men do not?

You talk about basic human and civil rights. Do they even exist in Islamic theocracies or is that wishful thinking on your part.

Why is it that the different sects within Islam have such hatred for each other that they are compelled to kill each other?

You forever highlight the good points about Islam, but I think its high time to highlight the not so good points. And that should not be done by those outside the religion, but by those who adhere to it.

How can Westerners respect a religion where fanatics are allowed to make judgements like the
Sayed case, the teddybear case, the constant suicide bombings that go on in Iraq, the terror in Dafur, etc, etc, etc.?

"There is no compulsion in religion"? Sure seems like there is plenty of compulsion in Islam.

I am a Muslim girl. I know the Prophet (PBUH) was just another crazy man and his religion is just another chain. But I must keep quiet. I have brothers and cousines and even my father to fear.

Oh. Well thanks anyway - it was my opportunity to rant about how bad Islam is.

I wouldn't worry about Moody. He seems to be locked into an idiocy death grip with Concerned the Christian Now Liberated.

Of course, I agree with Mr. Liberated, although his methods may not be effective, that all religions are filled with superstitious nonsense. I also like his idea of deflawing religions so we can be safe. Even though he is extreme in his methods and his repetition I do feel like he is taking the moderate approach of not saying that the religions are all garbage (like I said) but if you could remove the superstitions from religion then maybe there would be something of value for us all and we wouldn't have to fight over which wrong religion is right. That's crazy!

But then we wouldn't be religious we'd just have religious traditions the same way we have Aesop's fables. Maybe I should start my own religion where Aesop is the prophet or the messiah and if anyone calls his perfect book a fable I get to kill them in the name of all that is good and right.

to: Ann Onymous and Anonymous:

If I've offended you, I apologize. I was initially criticizing Moody for his comments about Zionism, and then when Anonymous responded, I thought he was responding to me.

And yes, my name really is Dave.

Dave, if that's your real name -

I didn't call anyone names. I called Islam by its name - A Travesty! Of course it's a travesty. Just look at it. Just another supposedly infallible book dictated by a supernatural being to an illiterate warmonger. A history of brutality and conquest. Over half a billion (that's billion with a B!) women who are no more that sex slaves - sold by parents to husbands they've never met - raped and jailed if they step foot outside their home on their own accord. Men who have sex with goats and sheep. Men who kill anyone who writes a book, or makes a movie, or draws a picture they don't like. All with the support of Mullahs that spend their time declaring that it's a blessing to drink the urine of Mohammad. What garbage.

All religion is bad but Islam is the worst. If there's any institution that can be called evil, it's Islam.

Sure takes courage to call people names when yours is "Anonymous"!

Is that why you hide behind "Anonymous"? You must enjoy being a bigoted person, but don't want us to know who you are. Real courageous!

You say - "Another Travesty in the Name of Islam"

I say - If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, IT'S PROBABLY A DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!

So Moody says, "The self proclaimed WESTERN HONEST KIND through Zionist media as usual blowing OUT OF PROPORTION one tiny single event in Afghanistan hidden corner." Is this just another example of extremist Islamits labeling any criticism as "Zionist", thereby showing their true intolerances?

Concientious people, like Pamela must speak out, just like Martin Luther King did! Think of all the injustice that blacks endured until one courageous man lead a crusade against that injustice. Sometimes one person can make a difference. Keep it up, Pamela!

It is very sad to see that a few, but powerful, fundamentalists in many of the Moslem countries are trying to save Islam, its Prophet and Allah only by killing their fellow Muslims for tiny reasons. However, by their very wrong perception of Islam and wrong activities, these people, without their knowing it, are only destroying the image of this great religion. The court judgement on so-called blasphemy in Afghanistan is a case in point. I would like to ask these fundamentalists did the Prophet of Allah ever sentenced any non-believer to death for blasphemy or other offences during his life-time, except when wars were forced upon him! As far as I know, he did not punish anybody that way, although millions then were non-believers and were always teasing him and Islam. Nor did he cut anybody`s hand for stealing. All these harsh sentences started only after his demise, but all in the name of Islam. And because of this attitude by the fundamentalists still now, the Prophet of Islam is being criticized.

It is very sad to see that a few, but powerful, fundamentalists in many of the Moslem countries are trying to save Islam, its Prophet and Allah only by killing their fellow Muslims for tiny reasons. However, by their very wrong perception of Islam and wrong activities, these people, without their knowing it, are only destroying the image of this great religion. The court judgement on so-called blasphemy in Afghanistan is a case in point. I would like to ask these fundamentalists did the Prophet of Allah ever sentenced any non-believer to death for blasphemy or other offences during his life-time, except when wars were forced upon him! As far as I know, he did not punish anybody that way, although millions then were non-believers and were always teasing him and Islam. Nor did he cut anybody`s hand for stealing. All these harsh sentences started only after his demise, but all in the name of Islam. And because of this attitude by the fundamentalists still now, the Prophet of Islam is being criticized.

It is very sad to see that a few, but powerful, fundamentalists in many of the Moslem countries are trying to save Islam, its Prophet and Allah only by killing their fellow Muslims for tiny reasons. However, by their very wrong perception of Islam and wrong activities, these people, without their knowing it, are only destroying the image of this great religion. The court judgement on so-called blasphemy in Afghanistan is a case in point. I would like to ask these fundamentalists did the Prophet of Allah ever sentenced any non-believer to death for blasphemy or other offences during his life-time, except when wars were forced upon him! As far as I know, he did not punish anybody that way, although millions then were non-believers and were always teasing him and Islam. Nor did he cut anybody`s hand for stealing. All these harsh sentences started only after his demise, but all in the name of Islam. And because of this attitude by the fundamentalists still now, the Prophet of Islam is being criticized.

Anonymous:
You say "You do not see Muslim troops in foreign lands. America has hundreds of military camps in foreign lands and the ones in Middle east has always been the bone of contention. Perhaps you can convince your leaders to get out of our countries. Only then we can see peace"
You mean to ay that Muslims were never in other people's lands? How then did the Middle East become predominantly Muslim? It is through the armed raids of the Bedoin Arabs from Hejaz. The reason that Arab and Arabized Muslims are not pillaging the rest of the world as they had in the past is because they are too weak to even hold on to what they had till very recently e.g North Iraq, Southern Sudan and Palestine. They are, though, doing the next best thing; terrorizing the world by blowing themselves up.

Rob Adams,

You noted: "The great thing about the above is it does not require us to be of the same religion or to even be religious at all. We need to be OK with that."

The problem is that Islam oozes of inherent flaws and sins that significantly impact peace in the contemporary world.

i.e. Muslims by koranic laws, tenets and interpretations thereof by "redneck" imams and clerics:

1. Believe in "pretty/ugly wingie" thingies and teach their children that such fictional things really exist.

2. Believe that the long-dead Arab did actually talk to the "pretty Gabriel" in the hot "Gabe" cave and therein received the warmongering and anti-female words now listed in the koran.

3. That Sunnis believe they are superior to Shiites in all aspects of life. Shiites think the same way about Sunnis.

4. That Islam is perfect and the koran inherently condones no sin even though the 24/7, 800 year-old blood feud between Sunnis and Shiites gives significant credence that greed, hate, suicides, assassinations, maiming, and murder are condoned by the koran. Having multiple wives also gives significant credence to the sins of rape, adultery, lust and polygamy. The condoned treatment of these wives gives credence that the koran allows the sins of hatred, anger and greed.

Anonymous (response to Floyd Pink - February 4, 2008 6:07 AM)

Anonymous. Nice post. I wish you would let us know your name.

When both sides live in fear peace is hard to come by. 9/11 made it hard for many Americans to stand by and do nothing. Now the course we took can be debated and I wish it would have been handled differently, but it certainly required some response. We had the world willing to help us after 9/11 and our government threw that away. Acting out of fear seldom if ever brings out something good. I think we (human race) can safely assume a better answer lies in something we are not doing now. This year I get a chance to help change that by voting in free elections.

Getting our troops out of Muslim countries is probably a step in the right direction. Getting countries to stop supporting extremists would also be helpful.

I loved your comment “Don't be like the ones who want to change the world but do not want to change themselves.”

You are correct we all have to work together to create the world we want. We both need to overcome our fear what ever it is. In the end it I believe it is the fear of change. The powerful don’t want to give up their control be it government, dictator, religious leader... even in “free” countries.

Many of the “common” folk just want to be safe and sometimes just sitting there doing nothing feels better than rocking the boat. Many of the “common” folk are not even given a chance to express their views and that definitely must change if the world is to change.

I have always liked the saying be what you want to create. We say we want peace yet both sides have not really demonstrated being peaceful.

People everywhere helping each other be free would be real progress.
People everywhere helping each other be loving would be real progress
People everywhere helping each other be peaceful would be real progress.

The great thing about the above is it does not require us to be of the same religion or to even be religious at all. We need to be OK with that.

Levent, Levent, Levent,

Through all the "poetry" and Turkish gibberish, we assume you are saying:

NO ONE IS SAFE UNTIL THE KORAN IS "DEFLAWED"!!!!

Pamela,thank you very much for articulating the very point we Muslims know and try to express without much success these days.

I will share a bit of my own life story here with rest of you.

While I was growing up, I had 3 tutors. One Buddhist ( Who taught me English ), One Hindu teacher ( Who taught me Math, Science) and One Muslim Teacher ( who taught me Islamic Studies ). Mind you these tutors are hired by the very religious Muslim parents. The same parents who emphasized on our education more so than any other thing.As a result me and my brother ended up coming to USA for College education. They always quoted Prophet Muhammad ( just like Pamela did )to remind us that Islam thousands of years ago emphasized on going even to China to gain knowledge. My sister is the most educated in our family today. She finished her second masters degree not so long ago.

That is a typical Muslim family for you. I earnestly pray to God so that someday we all can live peacefully regardless of which God we pray to or which God we dont.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lJwgP44Ap9E

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/susan_brooks_thistlethwaite/2008/01/the_face_of_faith/all_comments.html

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/susan_brooks_thistlethwaite/2008/02/do_christian_beliefs_preclude/all_comments.html

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/daniel_c_dennett/2008/02/muslims_must_demand_free_speec/all_comments.html

frog, fear oak, chess in English, tree of fear, st Augustus, Algeria.

porks and cats mate with their mothers, porks and dogs eat their product.

Present Presence Presenses and Presents.
in Emergency, Urgent.

Williams The King of Denmark of Greece in the Near Future
i want to see your maturity, and i wish i may

leave weapons, carry books on your head,
learn to rise a glass of water full on your belly with breathing.

SArkozy, you were kissed by a woman of love.
you shall not be an Tree of Fear any more.

if you decide to be Death, hear what is Death from my mouth,
when you happen to ask for something, let your addressees be dead to reply

let them have not any personal agenda that shall keep them out of their Will and Golden Touch.
your will shall be their will, and their will shall be your will,

you must have, to melt the borders to touch the hearts, yours included.
you must have, to hear the Divine Inspiration as Trees do Speak to You in the Forest,
as Stars in the Night on a Mountain or Countryside do.

if you happen to have the file of the case of Your Grandfather in Kenya
and Your Mother in France, then take your sword from the Golden Touch.

i watched King Henry Victory Three Eyes,
there are many of such marriages in grand families.

King Arthur and the Circle of Swords had no magic or spell.
they had their hearts and minds under their feet, and they did not fade.

have faith, do not be faithless and develop faith too,
but not for your personal agenda, or for a country.

if any one happen to remind your Grandfather in Kenya and Mother in France
call your grandfather, mother and grands, to have their presents on you with their bodyless presence.
be a frank man to be able to render what they sent, hugged touched or accompanied.
be frank to be a present too.

may it be with you too that countries shall catch up with
may it be with you too that people shall shine and grow,
may it be with you too that people on Earth shall tidy up their houses and touch to heal.

may it be with you too that porks and cats shall come together with women and nature.
may it be with you too that porks and dogs shall have supper with friends, they shall not fight but they shall be mature.

St Bernard with beverage in the chest, to ward the barn
literally a body, a house, a country, Magnetics of Human and Earth too

Vienne and Charlamagne or Benedictine or Franciscan or Dominiscan
or China Vietnam or India, or John McCain too.

Floyd pink

Thank you for advising me to relinquish my faith. Islam is a reality and you had better come to terms with it.

Don't be like the ones who want to change the world but do not want to change themselves.

To you your way and to me mine. Let us agree to respect each other. That is all most muslims ask.

You do not see Muslim troops in foreign lands. America has hundreds of military camps in foreign lands and the ones in Middle east has always been the bone of contention. Perhaps you can convince your leaders to get out of our countries. Only then we can see peace.

Wish for others what you wish for yourself. I have not met one America who would love to have foreign troops stationed in America to ensure that the interests of the occupiers are secured.

Do unto other... etc.

Now I can listen to some real pink Floyd.

Cheers

BArack Obama speaks about Orthodox Church School in MArmara Sea, it is time to open. and he shall be supported by Armenians in CAlifornia.

why do you support Orthodox Church? it was closed by Vatican in Lousanne Agreement, not by Turkish Republic. i want Strong Lighthouse in MArmara Sea and Islands.

lets see how Orphan Cottons (Orhan Pamuk)

to cotton : to agree, to unite, to make friends, to ally,

did you like the Green Eggs in Max.ico, the favicon on the website of Yahoo?
was it Mozilla or Internet Explorer who invented to let signify an Icon on internet browsers?

i want to know how Brasil Sao Paolo happened to verbalize Crocodile Four Legged Dog fossil in once united Africa and South America continents.
by Felipe de VAsconcellos, first crowcowdiles in Africa, to see their ancestors between crocodiles and dogs.

Phillip de VAsconcellos in St PAul.

as you see Mrs Laura Bush, burada baskalarinin adi okunuyor
is Orhan PAmuk re-ally good? does he unite two sides of Istanbul and Gods?

can Orhan PAmuk end earthquakes also, Mrs LAura Bush?
did He support His Country? where is His country? in New York?

Moody:
You seem to specialize in pointing out the
mote in others' eyes and ignoring the beam in your Muslim eyes. Talking about incest and homosexuality feast your eyes on what is going on in the land of the Two Holy Mosques.
http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/003716.html
An excerpt:{A magazine editor in Jeddah told me that many boys in Mecca, where he grew up have sexual relations with men, but they don't see themselves as gay. "Homosexuality is considered to be a stage of life, particularly at youth."}

Beagles generally excel as rabbit hunters and are typically alert and affectionate.

A bagel is a ring-shaped bread roll. a small ring-shaped type of bread (beygel, from boug ).

Yiddish beygl, from Middle High German böugel ring

yiddish, germanic jewish spoken in eastern europe, at least MAdeline Albright and Nicholas Sarkozy if i am not mistaken.

A Cross the Universe with Beagles
there are cheeses, milk and honey

Microsoft is about to marry YAhoo
Google is fine with Stanford Rice

Queen Beatrice, Porno is good for
Parental Family relations, better
for education of kids, and public
shall calm down. vital points are
straight relations especially yet
known with Noah. JApan animations
will ease woman trade child abuse

especially Antalya shall be freed
as Woman and Child are in Anadolu
Abraham may be with homosexuality
and child abuse, Northern hammers
i have far more different verdict
from Roses and Fish in the Garden
Servantes will get rid of madness

gooses do not echo from mountains
what shall be the echo from Polar
Star. Texts after Abraham are the
common Verses. may we call Saints
as Eagles, for round breads known
as golden ring are over the heads
or have the blond men grown wings

Microsoft is about to marry YAhoo
Google is fine with Stanford Rice

A Cross the Universe with Beagles
there are cheeses, milk and honey

Moody, Moody, Moody,

Islam is not perfect and the koran inherently condones sin as shown 24/7 in the 800 year-old blood feud between Sunnis and Shiites. Their actions give significant credence that greed, suicides, assassinations, maiming, and murder are condoned by the koran. Having multiple wives also gives significant credence to the sins of rape, lust and polygamy. The condoned treatment of these wives gives credence that the koran allows the sins of anger and greed.

Bottom line- Islam oozes of sin and has the stench of it since its inception!!!

To the HONEST KIND OF WEST,
Dare to reply that:
Anonymous,
"With Western Enlightenment and respect for the individual, we cannot win this war"
Rightly said by you Anonymous "You cannot win the WAR" because as you admitted your self,
Instead of reasoning YOU ALL are raging WAR.
And Muslims can't be convinced by your deceiving, bias polices and practices. Muslims see following common problems in the ENLIGHTED WEST which hardly exist OR stands out as very little in the Muslim masses and
"Are convincing enough NOT TO BE CONVIENCED”:
1- Chaos and Conspiracy theory practice towards Muslims to grab, still, occupy there lands and wealth and destroying there properties, lands and countries.
2- Your non-negotiation on real issues and brutal approach of enforcing your ideas upon Muslims.
AND WITH IN YOUR SOCIETIES HIGH RATE OF:
3- Moral degradation.
4- Incest (One of the reasons is FORCEFULLY giving kids from natural to un-natural parents).
5- Rape (Every second women get raped in her life time in your society).
6- Child molestation. (Reflects the SAFTY of children in your FREE SOCIET & in your CHURCHS).
7- Teenage pregnancies. (Shows the over all moral mind set of your masses, even kids are not left out any more).
8- Drugs and Alcohol addiction. (It is an unstoppable avalanche in your WHOLE society.)
9- Prostitution (every high street has savannahs & occupied by business women in the evenings)
10- Extreme racism against colored and all other kind of human breeds. Blacks are still facing the brunt.
11- Women’s exploitation in the name of freedom. (Telling them work equally hard and earn them selves. Is it possible for the mother of 2 or more to –i- raise children –ii- maintain house hold –iii- earn simultaneously. Even the strongest Will and nerves man can’t do it simultaneously with the kind of attention these responsibilities deserve NOW also consider in the keep changing natural physical demands of the women. It’s ACTUALLY FREEING THE MEN FROM ALL REAL RESPONSIBILITIES EXCEPT ONLY SEXUAL DESIRE & ITS FULFILLMENT.
12- Inhuman intervening UNBALANCED state laws about kids, women, men etc enslaving and making there lives hell.
13- High street crime rate.
14- Your enslaving & controlling corporate and mega chain brand INTEREST AND TAX BASED culture CRUSHING THE POOR SOCIETIES (ONLY providing freedom of EXPLOITATION to the rich masters).
And non convincing list is further very long............

AND we Muslims find ALL THE BALANCED LAWFUL SOLUTIONS of the above mentioned menaces in our religion Islam! THAT’S WHY THEY HARDLY EXIST IN OUR SOCIETIES IN GENERAL AND NOT FORCED BY ANY “GOVERNING BODY” WITH SUCH NEGATIVE IMPACT & INEFFECTIVE AS IN WEST.

To Ahmed From Bahrain.

>It is wrong to taint all Muslims with the tar brush >of extremists.

True, but what you and other moderate Muslims need to understand is that Islam is a hopelessly and fatally flawed religion not worth organizing your life around.

The Koran is not the word of God. Muhammad is simply another human who concocted ideas at odds with each other and the sooner believers reject the language of their ancient ancestors the better off we will all be.

I sure wish you and the author of this article could see that.

It is wrong to taint all Muslims with the tar brush of extremists. It is barbaric to pass capital punishment on anyone who insults a religious figure besides this young man has never done such a thing.

So, what Hamid Karzai and his Bush supporters and going to do about this? These same people are sitting in Afghanistan Parliament and are supposed to discuss such matters in parliament. How com they have the power of life and death over ordinary Afghans?

please do not pass judgment on Islam because of such so-called muslims.

Quran is said to have been inscribed at first onto bones and leathers. this means, all was verbal and oral.

there were papers then. there were papers attached onto the walls of House of Abraham on which letters were inscribed with gold.

The UN is finally getting wise to OIC's Islamist agenga:

On December 14, 2007, the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC) passed resolution A/HRC/6/L.15/Rev.1 "Elimination of all forms of intolerance and of discrimination based on religion or belief", which was widely and inaccurately reported to only address discrimination against Islam. In fact, this UNHRC resolution condemns "Islamophobia, anti-Semitism and Christianophobia" (paragraph 2), urges states to allow "the right to practice freely one's religion, including the right to change one's religion or belief" (paragraph 9.a), and urges states to make it illegal for "advocacy of religious hatred that constitutes incitement to... violence" (paragraph 9.d).

In seeking to protect the religious rights of the individual (rather than the protection of religious rights based on organizations), as demonstrated by resolution A/HRC/6/L.15/Rev.1's defense of the right to "change one's religion", this resolution provides a clear distinction from the goals of political Islamist organizations and Sharia law. Under Sharia law, the changing of religion (from Islam to another religion) is illegal, and a number of Islamist states have apostasy laws forbidding such an individual choice of religious freedom.

Notably, 15 Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) nations in the UNHRC abstained from voting on this resolution, as they felt this resolution conflicted with the OIC's support for Sharia, which is fundamental to their Islamist view of "human rights", as described in the 1990 Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam. Pakistan (representing the OIC) urged for an Amendment to this resolution via A/HRC/6/L.49 to eliminate verbiage about the right to change one's religion. Saudi Arabia felt that the resolution "went against Sharia law", and Egypt felt that resolution needed to be applied "within the context of the tenets of Islam."

This A/HRC/6/L.15/Rev.1 resolution also stated "that no religion should be equated with terrorism" (paragraph 13) and this demonstrates the crux of the challenge with the political ideology of Islamism. Almost none of the OIC states could support this resolution, because their commitment is not the promotion of Islam as a religion, respecting diversity among Islamic practitioners (including allowing its members to change religions), but the promotion of the political ideology of Islamism, using a legal tool of Sharia to enforce one view of Islam as an anti-democratic political ideology. The efforts by pro-Islamists to obtain dual status of Islamism as both a political ideology and a religion failed in this UNHRC resolution. In effect, while Islam should not be equated with terrorism per this resolution, the political ideology of Islamism remains a target for criticism because of the inherent anti-democratic, anti-religious freedom nature of political Islamism itself.

The ongoing fight against the ideology behind Jihad should leverage the UNHRC resolution's calls to "recommend remedial measures" to address questions that the U.N. and the UNHRC have failed to address in the past. Per the 9/11 Commission Report, "Islamist terrorism" finds its ideological basis in Islamism, and such an anti-democratic ideology should be challenged in the actions of states and organizations that have accountability to the United Nations.

B. Remedial Measures Required Based On This Resolution

Some of the areas where such U.N. "remedial measures" regarding Islamist laws, actions, and threats to human rights should be sought could include the following objectives. While it is unlikely that the UNHRC would ever take "remedial measures" on such manners, world opinion should continue to press the UNHRC and the United Nations to get answers as to why it won't take such action:

Moody, Moody, Moody,

Again, please peruse the following facts then refute each one if you can in your next commentary:

Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating, long-dead, "stenchifying" Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels"/"pretty thingies" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by

1a) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto

1b) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens murdered, 1000’s injured

2) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, 4000 US troops murdered along with 80,625 – 88,048 Iraqi civilians http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

3) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were murdered and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

4) Bali-in 2002-murdering 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

5) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were murdered, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

6) Spain in 2004- murdering 191 people and wounding 2,050.

7) UK in 2005- The bombings murdered 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

This is common practice in dictatorships and even in some democracies, putting pressure on a family member to make others in the family get in goose step. If Karzai allows this, he is just as guilty and powerless as we have read.

It is not Islam, that is just the excuse for controlling what is said and thought, like any dictatorships by governments or religious authorities.

First, I applaud Ms. Taylor and other Muslims on these pages whao quote from the Quran and other Islamic sources to make their point that freedom of expression is compatible with Islam.

Second, the current authoritative voices of Islam do not give a tinker's damn about any of that.

Third, therefore, the enlightened voices of Islam will continue to be overwhelmed and ignored by the authoritative voices of Islam at least for my life time, probably more. Ergo, freedom of expression will not exist in Muslim societies for decades, probably centuries.

To hit the nail on the head: It does not matter what the Quran (Bible) says about some political issue that someone somewhere can interpret in an enlightened, progressive way. All that matters is what the recognized authoritative voices of the Quran (Bible) say at some particular point in time in some particular geographical location on earth.

People like Ms. Taylor and American Christian fundamentalists who want religious values to be expressed in the political sphere while at the same time preserving secular values like freedom of expression are chasing a ghost wrapped in a myth covered by a fable. Mandating that religious values must be expressed in the political sphere requires that one religious person or group of religious persons make the final judgment on every law and rule. Those people will never, ever approve freedom of speech that allows individuals to question the religious officials' officially authorized positions.

The only solution is the American Founding Fathers' solution: Separate church and state. Until Islam makes that overarching decision, it's not even worth raising specific issues like freedom of expression.

**the Prophet's injunction to seek *knowledge* even unto China**

*knowlegde* in this injunction means *quran*,not something else.

In Islam,
Muslims DIFFRENCIATE between
- Free Speech (which is acceptable)
&
-Vulgar, obscene, insulting, abusive Slurs (which are not acceptable in Islam, UNLIKE WESTERN TRADITIONS WHERE EVERY THING GOES).

AND MR. "CCNL" IS ONE OF THE PREDOMINENT EXAMPLE OF IT!!!

Don't tell us SITTING AT DISTANCE, that we shouldn't be offended.
Go first abuse IN EVERY POSSIBLE WORD,
- the person present next to you, or
- your parents or
- your love ones.
And then tell us how do you FEEL?
(I guess VERY CONTENTED, HAPPY & GOOD according to your freedom of speech???)
&
And "THEN TELL US FIRST" how open heartedly your abused FALLAS accepted your EVERY POSSIBLE WAY verbal abuse?
Now "GO LOOK into the mirror".

The self proclaimed WESTERN HONEST KIND through Zionist media as usual blowing OUT OF PROPORTION one tiny single event in Afghanistan hidden corner.

The country which is UNDER CONSTANT ATTACK FOR ALMOST QUATER OF A CENTURY by the SAME self proclaimed HONEST KIND. Where every inch of it is rubble, destroyed. And where mostly the mentality of the people is GET KILLED OR KILL after the so long OPPRESION OF WESTERN HONEST KIND. "IT IS MORE THAN 25 YEARS OF CONSTANT ATTACK"

Just LOOK at USA FREEDOM laws of TORTURE, DESTRUCTIVE CONSPIRACY & CHAOS THEORIES IN PRACTICE. And how many INOCENT CIVILIANS KILLED AND TORTURED BY US SOLDIERS UNDER US PROTECTED LAW. "Is any body accountable?" Where every day innocent Afgans are killed by US soldiers under US protected TORTURE LAW??

The whole media is filled with GREAT US torture cells snaps and movies!

In Afghanistan TALIBAN represents the majority people heart and minds which LIGITIMATE GOVERNMENT when ASKED FOR THE EVIDENCE AS PER INTERNATIONAL LAW was replied in the form of rain of bombardment. And Tony UK and Pervaze PAK were answered by US instead of Taliban that it is not a nation but PART OF TERORIST GROUP.

AND THAT IS THE KIND OF JUSTICE USA IS BRINGING ALL OVER THE WORLD.

WHERE THERE IS NO LAW FOR US MASTERS AND ZIONEST ARE ABOVE FROM ALL KIND OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH

Is Islam compatible with secularism? This question is quite important in the present context, particularly in 21st century. Both non-Muslims and orthodox Muslims feel that Islam is not compatible with secularism. Fundamentalist Muslims totally reject secularism as anti-Islamic and haram. Maulana Maududi, founder of Jamat-e-Islami-e-Hind had said, while leaving for Pakistan in 1948, that those who participated in secular politics were raising flag of revolt against Allah and His Messenger. The Saudi `Ulama, too, denounce secularism as strictly prohibited in Islamic tradition.

The fundamentalist Hindus, on the other hand, say that Muslims support secularism while in minority in any country and oppose it while in majority. But this is not wholly true. Some Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia and others do reject secularism but all Muslim majority countries do not. For example, Indonesia does not reject secularism though its 85% population comprises of Muslims. However, by and large, it is true that many Muslim majority countries opt for Islamic state or at least make Islam as state religion.

It is important to note that there is some difference between an Islamic state and Islam being a state religion. In Islamic state all laws must strictly conform to Islamic Shari`ah but if a country declares 'Islam as its religion', it means that Islam is preferred to all other religions and it enjoys itself more privilege than other religions in the country. In 1948 Islam was declared as state religion in Pakistan, but Pakistan did not become an Islamic state until Zia-ul-Haq declared it to be an Islamic state in late seventies. He then began to enforce Shari`ah laws in Pakistan.

Islam is declared to be incompatible with secularism because in a secular state there is no place for divine laws, and secular laws are unacceptable to Islam. Also it is believed that in Islam religion and politics cannot be separated. On these grounds secularism is totally rejected by orthodox Muslims. They also think that secularism is atheistic, and atheism has no place whatsoever in Islam. Islam strongly emphasises faith in Allah. These are some of the grounds which make orthodox Muslims uneasy with the very word secularism. Islam emphasises life hereafter and secularism means only those matters which pertain to this world. There is no place for the world hereafter as far as secular philosophy is concerned.

We would examine here whether these assertions are true and whether Islam is really incompatible with secularism. Firstly, we should make a distinction between what is theological and what is historical. The concept that religion and politics cannot be separated is more historical than theological. In fact the Holy Qur'an, as we have pointed out elsewhere too, does not give any concept of the State; it only gives the concept of the society. The Qur'an is concerned with morality rather than polity. An upright conduct, justice, truth, benevolence, compassion and human dignity are very basic to the Holy Scripture. It repeatedly asserts these values. Thus it clearly means that these values are very fundamental to an Islamic society rather than to a State.

The view that religion cannot be separated from politics in Islam is due this primary concern with these Islamic values. It was thought by early Islamic `Ulama and jurists that if religion was separated from politics, the rulers would totally neglect these fundamental Islamic values and would behave in a manner which would only satisfy their greed for power. In fact in those days there was no concept of secularism as a philosophy of humanism. The `Ulama were afraid that if religion and politics were separated there would be absolutely no check on the conduct of the rulers. In fact, one does not find clear articulation to this effect (that religion cannot be separated from politics in Islam) in any early Islamic source. This formulation itself is of nineteenth century origin when colonial powers began to impose secular laws in Islamic countries i.e. the laws which were not basically derived from Shari`ah.

In the early Islamic period there were no other laws than the Shari`ah laws. And since there was no such concept of the State in Qur'an, the Islamic State itself is a historical construct. The structure of Islamic State evolved over a period of time. The Qur'an and Hadith were the primary sources for the new State. It is important to note that before Islam there was no State in Mecca or Medina. There was only a senate of tribal chiefs who took collective decisions and it was tribal chiefs who enforced those decisions in their respective tribal jurisdiction. There were obviously no written laws but only tribal customs and traditions. Any decision had to be taken within the framework of these customs. There was no other source of law.

However after Islam appeared on the social horizon of Mecca, the scenario began to change. In Medina the Prophet (PBUH) laid the framework of governance through what is known as Mithaq-e-Madina (Covenant of Medina). This Covenant also basically respects tribal customs to which adherents of Judaism, Islam and pre-Islamic idol worshippers belonged. Each tribe, along with the religious tradition it belonged to, was treated as an autonomous unit in the Covenant, which has been described in full details by Ibn Ishaque, the first biographer of the Holy Prophet. Thus the Covenant of Medina respected both the tribal as well as religious autonomy of the inhabitants of the town. It can also be said to be the first constitution of the state in making. The Covenant laid down certain principles which are valid even today in a secular state. When the covenant was drawn up by the Prophet of Islam, Shari`ah as a body of law had not evolved. In this important Medinan document what is most important is that the Prophet (PBUH) did not compel the different tribes of Jews and idol worshippers to follow the Islamic law.

A state structure began to evolve only after the death of the Holy Prophet when vast areas of other territories were conquered and new problems began to arise. During the Prophet's time the governance was limited to almost a city. He did not live long after the conquest of Mecca. But after his death the jurisdiction of the state expanded much beyond the frontiers of Arabia. During the Prophet's time people were more concerned with day today problems of marriage, divorce, inheritance etc. on one hand, and those of problems like theft, robbery, murder and some similar problems for which the Qur'an and the Prophet were inerrant source of guidance. The people asked the Prophet for guidance and followed his pronouncements or the Qur'anic injunctions voluntarily. There was no state machinery to enforce it. There was neither any police force nor any regular military. There was no separate judiciary either. As far as the Prophet was concerned he was legislator, an enforcer of laws (executive) and also a judge (representing judiciary). He combined all three functions.

Thus it will be seen that there was no regular state structure during the Prophet's own time as he was a unique personality who could combine all these functions for judicious governance, in addition to being a source of law. However, the death of the Prophet (PBUH) created a vacuum and no other person could fill it. Also, as pointed out above, the conquest of other territories created more complex problems. Now there was need for enforcement of laws as people in far off places with no commitment to Islam would not follow the laws voluntarily as they did in Medina in the Prophet's time. Thus a police force was needed to enforce the laws. Also, during the Prophet's time people volunteered for fighting against enemies of Islam and there was no need for a paid regular army. Now after his death need was felt for paid regular army. The border areas had to be guarded constantly. There were no such borders before.

The corpus of Shari`ah was being evolved and for new situations guidance could no more be had from the Prophet. One either had to look for verses in the Qur'an or in Hadith which Prophet's companions remembered or one had to resort to analogy keeping analogous situations in mind. That was how the corpus of the Shari`ah law evolved slowly. The primitive Islamic state was democratic in spirit and the Caliphs often consulted their colleagues and companions of the Prophet while making any decision so as to conform to the Qur'anic values. Thus Qur'an and Hadith then were the main sources of law. But in secular matters like building up institutions like army or police or bureaucracy, they did not hesitate to borrow concepts from other sources like Roman or Persian. Thus Hazrat Umar borrowed the concept of Diwan (i.e. maintaining records of salaries to a paid army and bureaucracy). Similarly the Caliphs were called upon to legislate on matters like land ownership, suspension of certain punishments during times of emergency like famine etc.

The conquests, internal strife among the Muslims, struggle for power among different tribes, groups and personalities and many other factors created strong pressures so much so that the institution of Caliphate itself did not survive. It was ultimately replaced by monarchy and dynastic rule. This was totally against the spirit of the Qur'an. These changes became inevitable under the fast developing situation. The Islamic jurists had to come to terms with these new developments and to legitimise them somehow. Once the institution of Caliphate was replaced by dynastic rule, it could never be restored throughout Islamic history. The monarchy and dynastic rule persisted until the Western colonial rule took over.

It was under colonial rule that Muslims began to discover the virtues of democracy and saw in the Caliphate a 'golden period of Islamic democracy.' It is true that during the dynastic rule Shari`ah law could not be ignored and the rulers had to keep the `Ulama in good humour. However, they often found ways to go around and violate the spirit of the Shari`ah law. But they never ceased to pay obeisance to it. But the situation changed drastically with the onset of colonial rule during the nineteenth century in the Islamic world. Many laws were enforced by the colonial rulers which were secular in origin. The Western countries themselves were once governed by the Church and it was the Church law which was supreme. But the reformation changed all that and the struggle against the Church gave rise to the concept of secularism. Thus there was intense fight between the Church and the ruling princes who desired independence from the hegemony of the Church. The emerging bourgeois class too wanted to be free of the sacred rule and saw immense benefits in secularisation of politics and society. Thus it took more than three centuries in the West for secularisation of society and marginalisation of religion and religious institution. When the colonial rule was established in Asian and African countries many of which happened to be Islamic countries, the process of secularisation had traversed a great distance in the metropolitan countries.

Thus the colonial countries posed a great challenge to Islam in the colonised countries through their technological supremacy. The religious leaders and intellectuals in these countries found refuge in the 'glory of the past' and some were overwhelmed by the supremacy of the West and began to advocate secular modernisation. Many reform movements thus were born in Islamic countries. Jamaluddin Afghani and Muhammad Abduh of Egypt were among them. Some others, however, totally rejected secularism of the West and launched intense efforts to revive the past. Revivalist and reformist movements jostled with each other for social and political space. Among those who faced the Western challenge there were those who rejected religion altogether and adopted secular humanism of the West. However, they remained in small minority.

Islamic societies, however, found it more challenging to adopt change and adjust to it smoothly. Many sociologists ascribe this resistance to change inherent to the teachings of Islam. This, however, is not true. No religion including Islam is prone or opposed to change. The causes of resistance to change lie in the society, not in religion. In fact most of the Muslim societies were led by feudal lords and failed to produce modern bourgeois class. In these societies there was no well-entrenched mercantile or industrial class. It is as much truer of Indian Muslims as of other Muslim countries. The Hindus, on the other hand, had centuries old merchant class, which smoothly adjusted itself to modern industrial capitalism. Thus those who took to modern industrial capitalism felt need for secularisation and social change. The pressures for change were result of the changing ground reality for them.

The Muslims, on the other hand, felt no such need for change, as there was no well-entrenched mercantile class to feel the need for effecting smooth change over to modernity. Also, in most of the Muslim countries, including India, Islam was embraced by weaker and poorer sections of society, for it appealed to those sections due to its emphasis on equality and justice. Those sections had no felt need for modernisation and they remained under the tight grip of traditional `Ulama who were anyway opposed to the process of secularisation.

Also, unlike other religions, Muslims had well-developed Shari`ah law which was unanimously accepted as divine in origin. Most of the religious leaders thus rejected the very concept of secular law as unacceptable. The `Ulama, as pointed out above, had strong grip over the hearts and minds of the poor and illiterate masses and used the social base to oppose any change. The feudal lords, too, had not much use for secularism and readily struck an alliance with the `Ulama giving them full support. Thus the `Ulama strongly resisted any change in the Shari`ah laws. Not only that, they would not even admit of any reform. Those like Muhammad Abduh and others who advocated ijtihad (creative interpretation of Shari`ah laws in view of modernisation and change) were marginalised. Those important socio-economic factors cannot be ignored while discussing Islam and secularism.

Before we proceed further I would like to throw some light on some inherent limitations of secularism also. In nineteenth century rationalism became a dogma. The rationalists and secularists almost began to worship reason and dismissed religion with contempt. In fact the rationalists have been as contemptuous of religion as the faithfuls have been of secularism. Both have refused to admit limitations of their respective positions. One can say that as there are religious fundamentalists there are rational or secular fundamentalists also. These secular fundamentalists have no respect for believers whom they consider as nothing less than 'superstitious'. Even certain cultural practices are considered as such. Some of them even refuse to admit the emotional richness of life.

There has to be a balance between reason and faith. Faith is as important to human existence as reason is. Reason, in fact, is a tool humans use to achieve their goal. Reason can never become absolute though its usefulness as a tool cannot be minimised. Faith, on the other hand, is not tool but belief in higher values. These values are fundamental to a meaningful life on this earth. Reason at best ensures 'successful' life but not meaningful one. It is faith in values like compassion, justice, equality, non-violence etc. which make human life meaningful. Thus a creative synthesis between reason and faith is absolutely necessary for successful and meaningful life on this earth. Sacral and secular should not be treated as two poles or antagonistic contradiction. They are rather complimentary to each other.

The faithfuls should also bear in mind that faith should not mean blind imitation of the past traditions. Faith has to be in values, not in past traditions. As absolute secularism could lead to a life devoid of meaning and responsibility towards fellow human beings absolute faith also could lead to blind surrender to an authority which leads to highly exploitative practices. One has to guard against such possibility by employing ones rational faculty. In other words while reason would not become arrogant, faith should not become blind.

If understood in this sense one will not find any contradiction between reason and faith and between religion and secularism. Islam is also compatible with secularism, seen from this perspective. If secularism is interpreted as an atheistic philosophy, no believer in religion would accept it, let alone a believer in Islam. Islam, as pointed out above, lays strong emphasis on belief in God and unity of God. Muslims believe in divine revelation of Qur'an and in Muhammad being Messenger of Allah. One need not challenge these beliefs in the name of secularism. Secularism should be taken in political rather than philosophical sense. Secularism in political sense creates social and political space for all religious communities.

The nineteenth century rationalism and modernism is itself under challenge today. Our period is characterised as post-modernist period in which religious pluralism rather than rejection of religion is accepted. Post-modernism recognises limitations of reason and accepts validity of religious ethos. We are now in a world which is far removed from struggle between the Church and lay people. Church has also accepted the inevitability of secularisation of society. It no longer enjoys the hegemonic position it enjoyed before reformation. It has also apologised for persecution of scientists for discovering new scientific truths. It has also accepted the concepts of democracy and human rights. There is, thus, no serious contradiction between Church and secularism.

Islam, it must be noted, has no concept of organised church. No single religious authority is considered absolute. There has been, on the other hand, the concept of consensus (ijma`) among the `Ulama (the learned men of Islam) which is quite democratic. In fact consensus has been considered as one of the sources of Islamic law in the Sunni Islam. Also, there is concept of ijtihad which infuses the spirit of dynamism and movement, though, of late, the 'Ulama have refrained from using it for change. However, pressures are building up in Islamic societies for using the concept of ijtihad. All Islamic societies are in throes of change and modernisation. Islamic laws are no more a stagnant pool of old traditions. Changes are being effected.

As there is no organised church in Islam the 'Ulama are divided on the issues of modernisation and change. In Iran too intense struggle is on between the conservatives and the reformists. In Saudi Arabia too the process of change is for anyone to see though the monarchy is quite cautious and wants to carry the orthodox `Ulama along. But social pressures are building up in the Saudi society in favour of change and modernisation. Even in Afghanistan the Taliban rule is more coercive than consensual. The Taliban enjoy political and not social hegemony.

Islam admits of freedom of conscience and democratic rights and there are no two opinions about it. Islam also officially accepts religious pluralism in as much as it is Qur'anic doctrine to hold other prophets in equal esteem. The Holy Prophet provided equal social and religious space to all religions present in Medina, as pointed out above, through the Covenant of Medina. The leaders of Jami`at al-`Ulama in India rejected the concept of two nations and supported the composite nationalism on the basis of this Covenant. Religious pluralism and composite nationalism, which is the very spirit of secularism today in India, is not incompatible to Islam at all. All Islamic leaders of India have accepted Indian secularism. Even the Jama`at-e-Islami-e-Hind has not only accepted Indian democracy and secularism but has set up a democratic and secular front.

The other characteristic of secular democracy is a respect for human dignity and human rights. The Qur'an expressly upholds both. It is true some rulers in the Islamic world reject the concept of human rights as Western in origin and not fit for their society. But it is to preserve their own absolute and unchallenged rule rather than upholding Islamic doctrinal position. It is cultural and political rather than religious problem. There are different political systems in different Islamic countries from monarchy to military dictatorship to limited democracy to democracy. But it will be naïve to blame Islam for this. One has to look into the political history of the country rather than search for its causes in to Islamic doctrines. Islamic doctrines do not nurture any concept of absolutism as perhaps no other religion does. In fact the Qur'an's emphasis is on consultation (shura), and even the Prophet used to consult his companions in secular matters.

It will thus be seen that Islam is not incompatible to secularism if it does not mean rejection of religious faith. Throughout the world today there is increasing emphasis on harmonious coexistence of different religious faiths and Islam had inculcated this spirit from the very beginning of revelation of the Qur'an. The doctrine that religion and politics cannot be separated in Islam is a later historical construct rather than the Qur'anic doctrine. It is human construct rather than a divine revelation. One of the important aspects of modern secularism is of course separation of religion from the state. While the state should not interfere in religious autonomy, religious authorities should not poke their nose in affairs of the state. The Indian `Ulama had accepted this position with good conscience throughout freedom struggle and it was on this basis that they became allies of the Indian National Congress.

In Muslim majority countries there is problem of autonomy of state. Again, one should not look for causes into religious teachings but in the socio-political history of those countries. These countries have hardly emerged from their feudal past. There is no history in these countries of democratic struggles of the people. Also, most of these countries have very small religious minorities and these minorities too have historically accepted religious hegemony of Islam. It will take quite sometime for this position to change as feudal past has strong presence in these countries. But there is strong pressures building up and human rights movements are emerging in all these countries. Globalisation may not be desirable for many other reasons but it is creating conditions for close interaction among various cultures and political systems. Information revolution also is a tide which cannot be stopped and this revolution is creating deep impact on every aspect of life. Muslim countries cannot remain aloof from this and has to open themselves to new ideas and forces.

Zeenat writes: "Concerned CNL, A. Kafir are at it again with their lies and distortions. Don't believe anything they say. They are troubled souls and internal conflicts about their bodies and minds."

Pamela,

your prophet had women stoned to death. Your Allah tells you to crucify people and to cut off their limbs for theft and other crimes. Your prophet had peoples eyes burnt, cut off the limbs and let the tribesmen of Uk'l bleed to death under the hot desert sun, and denied them water when they begged for it. The Uk'l had mudered his shepard taking care of his camels. Simple death was not good enough. They had to be tortured to death. Most humans consider these actions of Muhammad and orders by Allah as savagery.

Pamela can you condemn this savagery on the part of your Allah and Muhammad unequivocally? Can you say without reservation that it evil to torture other humans to death no matter what the crime?

How about you Zeenat?

Why is it that no muslim ever answers a simple question like the above? Why is it when Inyat Benglawalla, the spokes person for the Muslim organization in UK, was asked to condemn stoning of women in Saudi Arabia, and Iran could only ask, "are you asking me to condemn my prophet?".
Well, Zeenat, or Pamela, are you willing to say that stoing of women is Barbaric and cruel and acts of savagery?

Daniel,

You win the Sherlock Holmes award. What was your first clue?

Have you repented yet of your favorite sin? Or are you still chasing after the lusts of your father the devil?

Islam calls for freedom of conscience and expression!!

What a piece of fiction. Is that why there are 50 Islamic nations with more than 95 percent Muslim population. Try taking a Bible into Saudi Arabia

VOTE: Deport All Pakisatans & Afghanistani Nationals Out of sweet sweet U.S of A, not Mexicans now!!! !!!!!!!!

Yakub Yosif, that's not a bad idea but why not just intern them in camps like the Japanese during WW2? Hold them in protective custody until the war on terror is won?

PaganPlace,

I liked your response to M. Archibald, though I'm not sure I fully comprehend it.

Apropos of it (I think) here's a true story I first related on On Faith several months ago.

In the early 1960's, one of three sites tasked with launching an all-out nuclear attack on the Soviet Union was located in a bunker buried inside a mountain in Amherst, Massachusetts.

Here's what happened:

DAY ONE:

The team in the mountain ran a training tape showing a simulated Soviet nuclear attack on the United States.

DAY TWO:

The team returned to its usual job of scanning radar screens of Soviet air and missile activity.

Suddenly, multiple radar inputs from around the world showed unmistakably that the Soviets had launched an all-out nuclear attack on the United States, involving land and sea launched missiles and aircraft. Within less than an hour the U.S. would be a mass of radioactive ashes.

The bunker commander was put through to the Oval Office where President Kennedy and the Air Force Commander, General Curtis LeMay, the cigar-chomping go-get-em Cold Warrior were conferring on the situation.

LeMay told the President that the established plan for such a happening was for the U.S. to "Launch on Warning" against the Soviets, without waiting for verification that there really was a Soviet attack. The reason for this was that if there was a verification delay in launching, the U.S. would first be destroyed and could never retaliate.

LeMay told President Kennedy: "We have no time - I'm launching now!"

Kennedy said "No, you're not."

There was no U.S. launch. There hadn't been a Soviet launch either. A bunker technician had forgotten to remove and store the training tape of a Soviet attack that had been played in the bunker the day before. It was unintentionally replayed and everyone thought that what their radar screens showed was actually happening.

And that's how President Kennedy saved the world. As he did again in the Cuban Missile Crisis,

**************************************************
The bunker that almost ended the world is now owned by Amherst College where it stores overflow library books for the Five College Library Consortium. Its location in the mountain and its controlled temperature and humidity are ideal for preserving written materials.

The College occaisionally gives public tours of the bunker. If you have the chance, take the tour. It's a great experience and makes the reality of the cold-war era come alive.

Kerusso = Canyon Shearer

what a freak

Dear Readers:

Someone when faced with similar problems said:

“The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.”

Zeenat,

Where are the lies and distortions in the following??:

Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven,warmongering, hallucinating Arab,who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels"/"pretty thingies" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by

1a) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto

1b) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

2) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, 4000 US troops and 80,625 – 88,048 Iraqi civilians http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

3) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

4) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

5) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

6) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

7) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

Concerned CNL, A. Kafir are at it again with their lies and distortions. Don't believe anything they say. They are troubled souls and internal conflicts about their bodies and minds.

Ms. Taylor

I have maintained all along that the Quran is like a supermarket; you could find in it whatever you want to find, because its writer tried to please evrybody at one time or another. No wonder why over 69% of its Suras have inconsistencies as well as outright contradictions.
You quote verse from Quran which according to you says “If Allah had willed He could surely have made you all one single community…” as a proof that Islam preaches pluralism, and it is only that the Muslims misunderstood the verse. Well then how about Quran 9:29 that incites the followers of Muhammad to fight the ‘unbelievers’.
You quote another verse that says “no compulsion in religion” which is diametrically contradicted by many other verses including 9:29 cited above.What or who should we believe?
The Quran itself admits that if “it has contradictions it could not be from Allah”. Therefore we could not cherry pick verses from that book and claim Allah said this and Allah said that to prove anything. Otherwise we would be working according to the principle of RI=RO (Rubbish in equals rubbish out).
The problem is not necessarily with the Muslims,my dear lady,but definitely with their Sunna.

Ms Taylor,

Why don't you start yet another organization called "Dupes for Allah"? The idea that you were (from your picture and your name) given as your birthright the intellectual freedom of the West only to sell it for the straitjacket of Islamic gibberish saddens me and makes me wonder if you have any brain at all. If you are interested in the flow of information, give up the headscarf and Prophet jabberwocky and try to convince your thereby ex-coreligionists to do the same

"The Sins of Islam"

The sins of the koran and Islam go with you no matter where you go.

As a reminder:

Islam is not perfect and the koran inherently condones sin as shown 24/7 in the 800 year-old blood feud between Sunnis and Shiites. Their actions give significant credence that greed, suicides, assassinations, maiming, and murder are condoned by the koran. Having multiple wives also gives significant credence to the sins of lust and polygamy. The condoned treatment of these wives gives credence that the koran allows the sins of anger and greed.

Pamela,
U have said it all-very eloquent and coherent articulation of the issue.
Thanks ever so much for being such an enlightned voice on Islam.

I agree with you - but why does 99% of the Islamic world DISAGREE with you?

What is your plan to change the 10th century mentality that the Islamic world majority has embraced and in fact celibrates?

This is why non muslims want to hear good muslims like you denouncing the fundamentalist mullahs, sheiks, and clerics loudly, daily, and relentlessly.

How will you break the societal peer pressure to be a fundamentalist radical? Or worse, a suicide bomber?

How will you celibrate and promote modern Islam that honors women, free speech, and freedom of thought?

We wish you every success - but how?

Pamela,

You are telling the kafirs about an Islam that you and other Kafir converts want Islam to be. You patronizingly tell the Muslims of the muslim contries that they do not know their Islam. You merely tell lies to the kafirs and the kafirs will be morons if they are lulled into listening into your nonsense.

There are so many silly and absurd statements in your write up that I do not know where to begin.

1. Your allah and your prophet told muslims not to ask too many questions and warned that asking questions leads to loss of faith. So much for seeking knowledge.

2. And Muhammad never gave an injunction to go to china to seek knowledge. That is just a lie that muslims tell. It is now justified by the statement that it is a lie that was and is accepted by a lot a muslims and therefore it should be taken as a value of muslims. But why keep ascribing it to a barbarian like Muhammad?

3. No compulsing in religion merely means that Kafirs dhimmis cannot compel their own from kafirs converting to Islam, and do not force jiziya paying dhimmis forcibly into islam violently but let the humiliation and deprivation of rights do that on its own. Muslims really should be ashamed of using "no compulsion in Islam". Apostates have been killed since the time of Muhammad.

4. To you your way and to me mine, is one of the most uncomprimising statement and against dialog in the Quran!!! It says with finality that there is absolutely no dialog between the kafirs and the muslims.

You play the role of a real useful idiot for Islam. I hope the kafirs see that, and if they do not but fall for your idiocy, well then they have no one to blame but themselves.

Oh another problem in interpretation. Imagine that.

Why pretending the ramblings of hateful, backwards men that have been dead for centuries are the words of a god is a BAD IDEA. Exhibit #20488839900583.

Oh, and, yeah, there's still an awful lot of 'Left-Behind' fans that for some reason gravitate right toward those launch keys.

Just in case we've forgotten what it was like to live under the brink of Reagan's 'crazier-than-thou' sort of foreign policy, the aftereffects everyone is just shocked didn't go away from the ignoring of them.

Personally, I think a certain political/military-once-industrial complex kind of gravitates toward this displaced idea of random ultimate *death,* cause, frankly, you can't tell me living like that doesn't affect people.

It's traumatic.... I got all kinds of punk rock about it at the time... eventually got over it.

But what of those like Dubya who spent the time snorting a bunch of coke, shutting their eyes, stepping on the gas, and letting oil money clean up their messes?

Anyone surprised a good situation got messed-up?

Getting 'Born Again' to relive that impending-apocalypse trauma may be going around, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

" McKenzie Archibald:

"What's the point of having nuclear weapons if we never use them on these people?"

Umm, maybe it's looking at the Strategic Air Command logo that says, 'Peace is Our Profession,' finding out how many apocalyptarians were in charge of the nukes in the 80s, and thinking, 'Ok, this ain't gonna work?'

But that's why I had a funny hairdo at the time, I suppose. :)

I think in any authoritarian religion, there are the notions that "Obeying this authority must be good, so therefore, when obeying this authority results in badness, it's just a 'few bad apples,'"

This doesn't always or even often result in a real examination such as Ms. Taylor advocates... of 'How does this inform real human things like justice, peace, caring, and human creativity?'

People dismiss it as an aberration when some atrocity is sufficiently-entertaining to make the news, but even in 'Christian America' the intolerant and ignorant elements in fact do manage to create an atmosphere of fear and mistrust and inhibition:

All this is really about control, and what people do when they don't have as much as they believe they're entitled to.

And what's that substituting for, anyway.

Particularly in a context where everyone knows one religion or another perfectly capable of bringing peace. Just, at times, it seems, not when anyone else is around.

In some ways, I think, it's a lot easier to stand by one's principles when the odds are nine-to-one against you than they are when it's one-to-nine against someone who speaks up.

But that's the real trick, isn't it?

Some people read these stories, from overseas, ...try to lay the blame for them on the world not being Christian: Fact is, with less civil protection here, there's no doubt it'd happen more in America.

The difference is America, not the particular creed.

This argument will, of course, shortly devolve into 'Which brand of religious authority, given similar absolute power, would be better.'

Thought I might suggest we look at it differently.

Which is pretty much what I do, anyway.

But, really.

Stuff like this is just gonna keep happening, and if you blame the particular religion, it's not going to change.

Question is, what do people value, and how do we honor that. Any book or God that don't like it is probably big enough to cope, I'd think.

What's the point of having nuclear weapons if we never use them on these people?

This situation only reinforces the following call:

"NO ONE IS SAFE UNTIL THE KORAN IS "DEFLAWED"!!!!!!!!!!!!

Silly question, does the Quar'an provide justification? Can it be interpreted to justify? If not then what is the basis for the charge?

Sounds like old Lucifer at work again. He has people believing He is Allah. And no amount of sensible evidence will convince those caught in his trap. For sure, not as long as religious leaders are put on pedestals.

http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul and remember that the prophet Muhammad is just a Moses imitator.

If the case for Lucifer in the burning bush was presented along with all that moral religious education to the 10 year olds how many would say that was really God in the burning bush?

The answer is a scarce few at best. Any 10 year old is smarter than the most learned doctor of divinity? No way. The doctors of divinity sell their souls and thus gain the big money leading the multitudes to hell. Ayatollahs are just doing the same thing.

Did Muhammad do anything different than Moses? He like no one has any way to identify God and therefore it is a certainty that he did not know he was speaking to God or an an agent of God.

Muhammad must have been motivated by something. Was Muhammad motivated by money and what money will buy, power, respectability, the good life? Clearly Moses was thusly motivated.

There is nothing respectable about the clergy for they are all followers of someone who said, "I talked to God and God said--and everyone must live their lives as I dictate." Muhammad was and his followers like all religious leaders are dictators. It don't get any more un-American than that. Americans are now paying the price for "faith" not as bad as that poor lad but there are already broken homes, broken families, murders and suicides. Is all this what God wills or is there a Devil behind it all?

Pamela,

You say "These basic Islamic values are being threatened all over the Muslim world as governments and radical groups seek to shut down dissent and opposition to their points of view.". You call them wrong and radical, when in turn, they'd say the same of you. You can choose a verse from the Q'uran to backup what you state as a valid argument against what they say, but so can they. So who's right, you or the "radicals"?

Personally, I agree more along the lines of your thinking, and it seems to me that that's where the great majority of Muslims are too. However, there are enough who do not agree with your style thinking, and your interpretation of the Q'uran that these kind of events do happen around the globe (not just Afganistan, but England, France, etc...) *daily*, and it's just the small few that actually make the news, most we don't even hear about.

While this is sad, and unjust, and a wonderful example why free speach is our greatest right in this nation; I am reminded that you have to die of something.

It is truly a shame that the Koran is incapable of reformation, and I pray daily that the Koran instead be washed down by the seeker sensitive movement which has destroyed religion in America.

If only this young man could have been sentenced to death for reading an article with eternal implications instead of one that merely questioned tradition. Perhaps someone could get him a copy of the below?

The Gospel According to Mohammed
(c) July 2007 C. Shearer

Islam means “Submission to God”, as God has told us, “The Lord lifts up the humble; he casts the wicked to the ground. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.”

So the submissive will indeed go to Heaven, as long as they submit to God’s will.

One verse that jumps instantly to mind is, “God is not willing that any should perish,” God’s will includes demonstrating His righteousness, having upright followers, and that justice be done; but the most important from our earthly standpoint is that wrongdoers are rectified to Him, “that all should come to repentance."

Islam is in majority alignment with the Biblical understanding of Heaven and Hell; I think this is illustrated nicely in Surah 43 (Adornments), verses 70-77. Heaven is nice, and Hell is hot and eternal.

Where Christianity and Islam divide is how to get to Heaven; but how to get to Hell is the same in both religions.

Surah 43:74 tells us that “Sinners will be in the punishment of Hell, to dwell there forever.”

Surah 83 speaks of our conscience, the Sijjin, a register fully inscribed that will be open on the Day of Judgment; woe to the sinner, his conscience records his wrongdoings.

God knows the secret thought life, and has appointed a Judgment Day for all mankind. The Koran accepts Moses as a prophet and the Law of the 10 Commandments which were given to him. “God gave Moses the Scripture and the Criteria between right and wrong.” – Al-Baqara 2:53

If all sinners will have their punishment in Hell, it’s in our best interest to find out if we’re sinners.

Answer these questions truthfully and you’ll know:

Have you ever told a lie? What does that make you?
If I rape one girl, I’m a rapist, if I murder one person, I’m a murderer. A single lie makes me a liar. The Koran says to, “Invoke the curse of God on those who lie!”
– Al-Imran 3:61
The Bible promises that all liars will have their place in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone.

Have you ever stolen anything? What does that make you?
Both the Koran and Bible have very strict punishments for thieves. Maida 5:38 tells us, “As to the thief, cut off his or her hand(s).”

Have you always kept the Sabbath?
The Koran demands that you remember God on Friday, leaving off business and travel.
– Assembly 62:9
Whosoever does any work on the Sabbath, he will surely be put to death. This is in order to make sure you worship the Creator above creation.

Have you ever worshipped money, power, science, or possessions above God?
“Let not your riches or your children divert you from the remembrance of God. If any act thus, the loss is their own.”
– Hypocrites 63:9
This you know, no idolater will see the kingdom of God.

Have you committed adultery?
The prophet Jesus said, “Whosoever looks upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already with her in his heart.”
The Koran is clear, “Do not come near to adultery: for it is a shameful deed and an evil, opening the road to other evils.”
– Israelites 17:32
Clearly “coming near to adultery” is the same as Jesus taught, that a lust-filled glance is seen by God as shameful. Take note that the word for adultery in Arabic is sometimes translated as “Fornication”, sex outside of marriage.

Have you ever used the name of God in Vain?
“Those before them also devised many a blasphemy, but God took their structures from their foundations, and the wrath befell them without them perceiving from whence it came.”
– Bee 16:26
God will not hold him guiltless that takes His name in vain.

If you’re like me, you’ve broken every one of these, and these are only six of the 10 Commandments. The Bible says that we have stored up wrath for ourselves on the Day of Judgment. The Koran is nearly identical, “On the day when heat will be produced out of the fire of Hell, and it will brand your forehead, your flanks, and your back, “This is the treasure which you stored for yourselves: you then taste the treasure you amassed!” – Immunity 9:35

There is a minor difference in the Hell of the Bible and the Hell of the Koran. In the Bible it says that we will beg for a drop of water, but none will come. The Koran says that we will have an overabundance of water, albeit it will be superheated past boiling and we will be forced to drink it, and it will wreak havoc on our insides. Either way, Hell is not somewhere I want to go, nor do I want you to go there.

There is a way to be saved from this punishment we have earned, it is the Injeel which according to the Koran was given to the prophet Jesus. Injeel means, “Good News”, and avoiding such a terrible place as Hell is definitely good news.

Some think that the good news is that we can work our way out of Hell. Both the Koran and the Bible refer to God as a just judge, so lets see how an earthly judge might relate. Imagine you stand before a judge, there are six clear evidences of your guilt, and the judge puts on you a fine that you cannot possibly pay. You offer the judge your good works, you’ve given to charity, you pray unceasingly, you are nice to people, you ask for forgiveness daily, you help little old ladies across the street, and to top it all off, you washed the judges car on the way in to court. The judge tells you, you should do good things, but you've broken the law; he cannot let you go, because despite all of the good you’ve done, justice is due. You cry out in repentance and sorrow, and the judge tells you it’s good that you’re sorry, but there is a fine to be paid, and if you can’t pay it, you will be thrown into prison.

This is the earthly judge, how much more Holy and Just is the Judge of the Universe? Payment is due for your transgression, and the Bible and the Koran clearly state that the fine is the eternal fire of Hell.

But here is the good news, God gave us the gift of a holy son (Maryam 19:19), born of the virgin Maryam, this son’s name was Jesus, and because he was holy, He lived a perfect unblemished life, he was tempted but didn’t sin; in the writing of Moses about the Passover Lamb, the lamb must be without blemish, a male, taken from amongst its brethren (Exodus 12:5). Another name for Jesus is the Lamb of God (Revelation 5:12). Jesus was offered as the sinless sacrifice to take away the sins of the world (Johannes 1:29). Jesus was hung on the cross outside of Jerusalem on Calvary hill, a hill not two miles from where Ibrahim offered his son as a sacrifice 1700 years prior. Jesus died in our stead, he paid our fine in his own life’s blood. The wrath of God was poured out upon him and it pleased God to do it. Jesus went through Hell so we wouldn’t have to, in an infinite showing of love God sacrificed Jesus so that we can be forgiven, he was the propitiation for our sins.

The Koran says that our sins are a stain on the heart, (Al-Mutaffifin 83:14) and Maryam 19:60 says that if you’ll repent and believe, then you will see Heaven. Mohammed was quoting the prophet Jesus when he said, "Repent and believe the Gospel", in other words, repent and believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Christ, the propitiation for your sins. Once you have done this, your sins will be forgiven, your stained heart will be replaced with a new heart (Ezekiel 11:19), and you will be born again into the family of God.

If any man does this, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. – 2 Corinthians 5:17