Forgiving Helen Thomas

What is done to Helen Thomas goes to show you how our first amendment and freedom of speech is being endangered by the Zionists owned Media and News organizations. How the infiltration of the Zionists into our government is the most imminent danger to this country and our values.

They can block and defame others and protect themselves from any damages or backlash from their atrocities. The "Goldstone" report by the UN is forgotten, the latest killing of unarmed and innocent people on the seas and other places are not followed up and no journalist dare to criticizes the Israelis or the Zionists.

Other peoples such ourselves who blog and comment on daily news are being censored and taken out. The power to shape American public opinion is a power that is now controlled by the Zionists and they can shut down our freedom of expression and speech when they want to.

Wake up and see who is stealing your country from underneath you.

NewsBusters: Liberals Mock 'Hatchet-Faced' Helen Thomas
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2010/06/09/liberals-mock-hatchet-faced-helen-thomas

Helen Thomas left the national stage after a 20 year run. The last 30 years she has been a crazy woman who the journalists that preach "accountability" were afraid of calling her a nut.

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Credit to "jj" .... http://onwapo.com/

Mr. Secular:

But amongst the existing religions, I do find Hindu fables lot more entertaining and interesting, along with the Greek mythology.
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Some are, some aren't. Also, ancient Egyptian myths are interesting, Native American, etc.

But once religion, and I emphatically include Hinduism, weds with government, we are doomed.

Doomed, then, are we.

Ms. Farnaz:
You wrote:
"Mr. Secular:

SECOND POSTING (Part I of II)

I prefer beginning at the beginning although Matthew is mild in comparison to much of what follows. Some notable quotables from the text of the Religion of Love.

MATTHEW
# Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12

# Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30
.
.
.
"

Thank you for making my point, precisely. As I have been contending these books of fables are the vilest of the vile admonishments. I don't see one any better than the other, insofar as morality goes. But amongst the existing religions, I do find Hindu fables lot more entertaining and interesting, along with the Greek mythology. Otherwise these are as they say in Texas "Six of one half dozen of the other"

Mr. Secular:

The Christian/Catholic version of deities has as much in common with Judaism as Zeus does with Brahma.

On YWYH:

YWYH is the tetragrammaton, meaning, literally, word having four letters.

It is, perhaps, the earliest aporia cum deconstruction in a religious text.

To explain what it signifies in any way that does justice to the construct would take, minimally, six months.

For a rough and dirty explanation, one could say that it represents the limitlessness of deity to human conception.

Unlike everything else the name of the deity cannot be pronounced. We can only name that which we can conceive. We cannot conceive deity in its ultimate form.

The Tetragrammaton is a statement of that inability to conceive ultimacy. It occurs in Tanakh at those junctures where the construct of this inability, along with the notion of ultimacy is required.

I'm a LIBERAL, I was born a LIBERAL, I'll be one 'til I die, what else should a reporter be when you see so much and when we have such great privilege and access to the truth? –Canadian Broadcasting Corporation TV interview with Helen Thomas, January 21, 2009

Ms. Farnaz:
Your last post was total non-sequiter. I don't know why you insist that I am a christian. You also make a distinction between Jewish Yweh and christian god. I have invited you to show the distinction, you chose to ignore that and continued with your harangue. As far as I am concerned it is a mythical character, who has no bearing on me in particular.

As to your claim that Hagar, & Ismael being revered characters amongst the Hebrews is of little concern and I am willing too grant you your claim. My whole contention is that all the books of fables are vile and crass books that promote in-group morality. Thanks to zeitgeist the human society by and large has moved way past the in-group morality, no thanks to the books of fables. The next contention of mine is that the character of Avram is nothing but pond scum, not at all worthy of being held as a role model. If you disagree with me on those two counts, we can have a argument, otherwise all you are doing is betraying your venom for Christianity.

"G-d called to Hagar from heaven, and said to her, 'What is the matter with you, Hagar? Do not fear, for God has heard your voice. Lift up the boy and hold him, for I will make a great nation of him.'" (Gen)

Mr. Secular:

SECOND POSTING (Part I of II)

I prefer beginning at the beginning although Matthew is mild in comparison to much of what follows. Some notable quotables from the text of the Religion of Love.

MATTHEW
# Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12

# Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30

# Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14

# Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19

# "The children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12

# Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21

# Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32

# Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). 10:14-15

# Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21

# Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28

# Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36

# Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24

# Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50

Continued

# Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7

# Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9

# In the parable of the unforgiving servant, the king threatens to enslave a man and his entire family to pay for a debt. This practice, which was common at the time, seems not to have bothered Jesus very much. The parable ends with this: "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you." If you are cruel to others, God will be cruel to you. 18:23-35

# "And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors." 18:34

# In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn't have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and "cast him into the outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 22:12-13

# Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37

# God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51

# The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30

# Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41

# Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46

Note: The "D.A.B.D.A." Jitters

{D.ISBELIEF, A.NGER, B.ARGAINING, D.EPRESSION, & finally A.CCEPTANCE}

is what Every, ANY & ALL Human Beings, must go through (Psychological-Stages) when a Loved one, or hated one; Dies or gets hurt; And also for victims of Rape, Adultery, Divorce, Murder, forced Religious Conversions (even though this act is tantamount to Murder) robbery, theft, Stock market victim, beatings etc..

Credit goes to a Beautiful Lady named DR. Elizabeth Kubler Ross [pbuh].

See, Five Stages Of GRIEF:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Stages_of_Grief

Note: Liz had 4 miscarriages before having 2 of her own later on, but then divorce. So Liz experienced many DABDA jitters herself.

But then again: THINK GLOBALLY & ACT LOCALLY, no more the other-way Around! It's America's New Motto. Credit this Paradigm Phrase to Mr. TOM BERRY via The WORLD FUTURE SOCIETY entitled, "Through The 1980's THINKING GLOBALLY & ACTING LOCALLY".

Please see this Article (2005)

http://www.smallisbeautiful.org/publications/CHBudd_05.html

which is so Prophetic today that ECONOMISTS of todays world will find it as kinda Religious.

Mr. Secular:

First, I am not a "theist." I am an a-theist.

Second, I do not much care about your christian "reading" of a text which your religion stole, mistranslated, and cannot conceive.

Ismael is a revered figure as well. In Hebrew, his joining his brother at his father's death is one of the most powerful moments in Tanakh.

I can only repeat what I have said. Christianity is the inaugural racism of the West. It took the most savage elements of Homuz, Osiris, et al, distorted the sometimes beautiful ceremonies of the Mystery Religions of the region and converted them into a Eucharistic bloodfest.

It re-imagined Hashem as a Human Hating monster after the blood of his children, who subsequently became us.

It's text is replete with snakebites, murders by the "Son of God," threats of genocide, thefts of property. It promises that God will force humans to believe "lies."

It is vile. Probably authored by Bram Stoker.

Good luck to you with your sanctions against IRan.

The Empire, my dear Christian, including the Jewish, is writing back.

Continued from Below:

My contention is not how revered a character is in one tradition as opposed to another. If anything my sympathies are with Haggar, and Ismael, for being so atrociously treated by this pond scum of a character Avram. I did not mean to demean the Haggar character at all. I have rightly portrayed the treatment meted out to her and her son by the Avram character in the fable. Tell me where I am wrong in my recollection of the fable.

Now coming to my alleged religion, it is definitely not any brand of Christianity. In fact religion of my parents is also far from it. Besides according to fables of all the three so called mono-theistic religions namely Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are supposed appeal to the same deity, although the attributes bestowed on it vary a little bit in detail. So why this harangue about Christian god, etc, etc. Do you subscribe to the view that Christians protestation of their god being Avram's god is just for non-chritians' consumption? But behind the church walls they do not consider, the voices of Avram, as of their own god?

I am really a "Show me, for me to believe" kind of guy. No one, not my late mother not my dad, for that matter anyone else has shown me. Until, then i am sticking with the notion "Absence of evidence, is indeed evidence of absence"

By the way my reading of OT does not lead me to subscribe to the view that Judaism is at all a mono-theistic religion at all. On the contrary the book of fables is replete with allusions, and citations of other gods, such as Baal, etc. The constant admonishment to the early hebrews from that book is not to go "who&^ng with other gods" All that book says is that Yweh is their God, and nothing more. That is the reason I surmise, in the fable of Exodus, Moses does not give a hoot fro other slaves in Pharaoh's hold. Am I wrong again, here? Of course, in Islam there is a positive claim made in their book of fables that there is only one god. Of course thye get away with that claim by insinuating that OT, & NT were corrupted from the day one, God had taken responsibility this time around keep their book of fables from being corrupted. I guess the perfect god did not give a hoot the first and the second time, but was more responsible this last time. I always wonder why is that, he had to do it only three times. If three why not four. May be they took a cue from Hinduism where number three is quite cherished.

Ms. Farnaz_mansouri2
I am not at all sure what you mean by "I will allow the irony of your name to pass for a moment." I will let that pass too, because it matters little to me what you or anyone else thinks of my pseudonym. I use it because it seems to fit my world view and it was not already taken by anyone else on these fora. So much for that.

You said "Hagar is a revered figure in Judaism ...." and that matters little to me, as well. It is narrated in that book fables that she was banished, once Sarai started to nag Avram. Correct me if that is not the correct narration of the story.

Tell me what would be the standing of a man in this 21st century, in Americas, Europe, Australia, or most of Asia, if he were to abandon his mistress. Why go that far, consider one of our illustrious politician John Edwards's standing among the people. I do not know of any person who does not view him as anything but pond scum. Here we have OT holding this character Avram as some kind of a role model. And of course you know too well, his supposed peccadilloes were not just limited to the treatment of Haggar, it extends to pimping his own wife, not once but twice. Not to forget his all too eagerness to butcher is other son, because he heard some voices. I know you theists all have some unique way to rationalize the behavior narrated in the fable. In this rationalization people bring circumstances not mentioned in the fable. I have heard similar stuff about that Hindu god Rama's treatment of his pregnant wife in that fable too. They come up with all sorts of rationalizations, again borrowing stuff that is not mentioned in the fable. I am supposed to buy that stuff hook, line, and sinker. Thanks but no thanks. At the least you theists must concede that our interpretations are grounded in the literal narration, before embarking on the rationalization adventure. But no, you don't do that.

Secular:

Correction to previous post. Meant to write--

Your wretched "God" ended the prohibition against human sacrifice that Judaism had ended. Your "God" gave to humanity his "only begotten son" (idolatry) for humanity to torture and bleed to death. Your God is the ultimate child killer, and he MADE Human Sacrifice Holy, sending humanity back to pre-historic times, where it lingers thanks to the christians.

I have to say I personally am worn out with testimonials on the racist crone. I have yet to see a story here at OnFaith about the slaughter of the young Yemeni rabbi, the ending of a thirty-five hundred year old civilization in Yemen, etc.

I have not heard anything about the appeal to sue Vatican Bank to recapture the money its 200 Franciscan priest torturers stole from their thousands of Jewish, SErbian Orthodox, and Roma victims....

The young Jewish girl beaten so badly on the London streets that she had to be hospitalized.

The crimes against Jews in Europe, the MIddle East, and right here, in my own neighborhood. Of course, we handled it. But that is another story.

Instead, we are inundated with tales and opining on a Catholic racist. As if she were unique.

Secular:

RE: Your post

I will allow the irony of your name to pass for a moment. Hagar is a revered figure in Judaism, unlike Catholicism/Christianity, which colonized the Tanakh, distorted it vilely, and then has spent its free time (time off from genocide) explaining it. The most recent instance is yours.

According to the late Edward Said, the thieving of another people's culture is the foundation and hallmark of imperialism.
Antisemitism, the theft of Judaism by the christians is the inaugural racism of the West.

As I have told you before, you would do better posting on your own religion, and I am uninterested in your protestations that you do not practice. You are a christian. The best you can hope for is enlightenment of its possible consequences to your moral health.

Your wretched "God" ended the sacrifice of Human the Judaism had ended. Your "God" gave to humanity his "only begotten son" (idolatry) for humanity to torture and bleed to death. Your God is the ultimate child killer, and he mad Human Sacrifice Holy, sending humanity back to pre-historic times, where it lingers thanks to the christians.

Your fictional God--Osiris, Homuz, etc., with its cannibalistic eucharist derived from the mystery religions of the region is a blight unto humanity. It is the inauguration of systematic worldwide evil, sir.

It has cannibalized humanity. Study and learn, sir, about your miserable religion. My aunt Hagar would approve.

Ooopps. This last post was meant for David Wolpe.

The BIBLE-CHUMASH/KORAN-QURAN/GEETA-GITA/KANGYUR-TANGYUR... are

The Most Tautoilogical Sentences & Evil Story's via imMORAl stories , based on "Fundamentalism" (Nostalgia to live Back in time; instead of Forwards in time) ever written; let alone told!

Someone should write a book or set of books/pamphlets etc.. called, i.e., "QURAN/KORAN's FOR DUMMIES" or "GITA/GEETA's FOR DUMMIES" or CHUMASH/BIBLEs FOR DUMMIES" or "BIBLE FOR DUMMIES" or "TANGYUR/Kangyur's FOR DUMMIES" et al.

Note: i [WE] are doing just that. But it will be Free of Charge; because those who gave their "hard earned Money" to Any Organization of a "CHURCH"s (Mosque, Synagogue, Temple, shrine, place of worship et al) because of fear or [false] belief of some "Signal Deity" (As be some HE or a SHE? god(s))will realize How Naive & Stupid & how used & how all the waisted time & talk & how foolish that a He or a She was influenced under the massaging/Mesmerization process via "WORD MERCHANTS" in religio Garb & or (un)Holy books; but which

Which will Safely Cause the Naive(ex) follower/reader to experience & undergo 5 stages in reality-of-TRUTH (opposite Myth) via the DISBELIEF stage, then ANGER, BARGAINING, DEPRESSION, & finally ACCEPTANCE; aka The "D.A.B.D.A. Jitters"

Don't Worry; Ye & We & i Shall & will Overcome! So, Stop "RELIGIO-PROCRASTINATION" now! It's a sign of Weakness; especially in the Post Electric/Nuclear/Internet world.

Note: The Internet will kill all Old-Time-Religions; No matter How renewed or rewritten/reprinted they become(under same Brand/Denomination/Religion/CHURCH) There's More humanly useful works (intellectual Property) that is as holy as can get out there; that today embarrasses All such Religious-Books & those who Eat it Up (let alone Die for (in vain or for Naught) such preposterousity!.

PEACE, PAZ, SHALOM, SALAAM, MIR, FREIDIN, AHIMSA, ZHINGYU...

- Shaheed (Martyr) Yahudi (Jew). aka Jewish Martyr or Martyr'd Jew.

Mr. Jos45:
First of all the whole story of Exodus, has been established as just another fable, by no less an authority than Israeli Archeology. My point was not that any of these stories are true, but that these holy books promote hypocrisy as a virtue and blatantly promote in-group morality - a euphemistic way of saying racist. How else do you explain the story of Exodus, wheer in the so called god only frees the hebrews and leaves the rest of the salves to Pharaoh's whims. The list goes on ad-nauseum.

As to your lament that I should not insult a book that millions of people hold it in great respect is hollow. It is really unfair to expect to pretend that these silly so called holy books are any kind of guide to ethics and morality. If you feel and have objective reasons to show otherwise I am ready to entertain your arguments for them. Don't ask me to give them a pass, then claim a defacto validation of these books. For every positive claim you make of these books, I will show the hollowness of that claim and more.

By the way Haggar was not just a servant of Avram according to the fable, but his possession (slave), who he bedded and then discarded her along with his own child, like a snot cloth, when his octogenarian wife bore him a son. He is supposed to be a role model? I am not supposed to point this out, because others had been brainwashed to look at this character as some kind of role model? How long are we to perpetuate this kind of non-sense. My hope is, when we bring this ind of stuff and question the hypocrisy of all, it might engender among however a minuscule number of people to think and reason. I know that is a fond hope, but if I don't then those small numbers won't even consider the issue.

So please don't make such appeals. Come up with rational arguments, not these laments that I am hurting feelings.

JOS45 said: "There was no Palestinian People... After the Jews transformed a desert to a flourishing garden thousands of arabs, bedouins and others... "

My Response: How "ironic." The Europeans of South Africa (the so-called “Afrikaners”) had the same good fortune of simply "stumbling" upon unoccupied land, too... Your fanciful account smacks of the same dubiousness, sir... Don’t insult me.

If you think I [or anyone with a working brain] really believes that the land of Palestine was completely uninhabited by Arabs during the birth of Zionism, then I've got “a bridge in Brooklyn” I 'd like to sell ya..

Norman,

Your a better Jew than I am...Perhaps it is because 63 years after the Holocaust, I am still trying to put together my family (successfully I might add) who were scattered throughout the world, those that were able to escape Austria, Poland and Germany. I am fully aware of the sympathies Helen Thomas brought to her remarks and I have never forgotten and somethings are simply unforgiveable. May she live the rest of her life with the discomfort and shame of knowing that she is a genocidal sympathizer and always has been. We must all be held accountable for what we say and do and I am satisfied that she has been. Finished...Let's move on without her, she stank up the room.

Mr. Secular,
I think that you don't understand the difference between the behavior of Abraham and the behavior of Pharaoh. At the time of Abraham there were no employees and no trade unions but servants ("Abd" or "khadem" in Arabic) and it was not on an ethnic basis. At the time of Pharaoh all the Hebrews were slaves on an ethnic basis. It was a racist/appartheid policy and it was wrong. The Bible is not a book that chose all the nice stories but one that reflects real life and teaches some moral values. You are not obliged to love this book but it will be nice not to insult those who respect it. Believe me, that you will make the world better if you could enhance mutual trust and peace and not hatred.

I have to say I personally am worn out with testimonials on the racist crone. I have yet to see a story here at OnFaith about the slaughter of the young Yemeni rabbi, the ending of a thirty-five hundred year old civilization in Yemen, etc.

I have not heard anything about the appeal to sue Vatican Bank to recapture the money its 200 Franciscan priest torturers stole from their thousands of Jewish, SErbian Orthodox, and Roma victims....

The young Jewish girl beaten so badly on the London streets that she had to be hospitalized.

The crimes against Jews in Europe, the MIddle East, and right here, in my own neighborhood. Of course, we handled it. But that is another story.

Instead, we are inundated with tales and opining on a Catholic racist. As if she were unique in that category.

The purpose of this story is to make everyone forget about what Israel did to the ships trying to provide humanitarian aid to the Palestinians. The rabbi who asked Helen the question knew exactly what he was doing and what to expect for a response - and he and the rest of the press controlled by the Jewish lobby very swiftly and effectively killed the humanitarian aid story. Does anyone remember the ship and the people who died trying to provide humanitarian aid to the Palestinians? Does anyone remember that the Palestinians are trapped in a ghetto by the Israeli's? Ms. Thomas’ words are her honest opinion and what she said is true - the Israeli’s are occupying and stealing Palestinian land and homes. Why is there not more outrage against the loss of lives perpetrated by Israel and why is there so much outrage for speaking honestly? What Israel is doing is a not only offensive and reprehensible – it is sinful - Israel is the problem – not Ms. Thomas.

The purpose of this story is to make everyone forget about what Israel did to the ships trying to provide humanitarian aid to the Palestinians. The rabbi who asked Helen the question knew exactly what he was doing and what to expect for a response - and he and the rest of the press controlled by the Jewish lobby very swiftly and effectively killed the humanitarian aid story. Does anyone remember the ship and the people who died trying to provide humanitarian aid to the Palestinians? Does anyone remember that the Palestinians are trapped in a ghetto by the Israeli's? Ms. Thomas’ words are her honest opinion and what she said is true - the Israeli’s are occupying and stealing Palestinian land and homes. Why is there not more outrage against the loss of lives perpetrated by Israel and why is there so much outrage for speaking honestly? What Israel is doing is a not only offensive and reprehensible – it is sinful - Israel is the problem – not Ms. Thomas.

Also, Norman, now that the Catholic is in retirement, she might spend her evenings with another racist glitterati, Trent Lott.

They, might, for instance sing "When Johnny Comes Marching Home" dressed up in their brown shirts, hymning Jesus, Osiris, Homuz, Whatever.

After all these are their golden years....

Jos45 wrote "The Bible is not a stupid book of fables." Of course it is, just like every so called holy book. talking snakes, flying apes, muddy people at the end of the earth, etc, etc, etc. None of them get beyond in-group morality. They much more vile than just stupid books of fable. Jos45 you tell me why was it OK for Avram to hold slaves and not the Pharaoh. Sorry, sorry that is not true, Pharaoh could also hold slaves, just not Jewish slaves. I have heard lots of rationalizations about other things before. I have not raised this pickle of an issue for all the bible thumpers. Let me hear it. I am hard-up for some amusement this evening.

Meant to write--

Don't worry about the Catholic, Thomas. Jesus has already forgiven HER. That is her birthright.

Mr. Secular,
The Bible is not a stupid book of fables.

Btw., Norman,

Don't worry about the Catholic, Thomas. Jesus has already forgiven him. That is her birthright.

Comparing the African American predicament (because we still have not achieved self-determination) to the ongoing evil being committed on the natives of Palestine is HIGHLY OFFENSIVE! On behalf of all African Americans (NOT a Zionist payroll), please stop making this argument!!!

Posted by: blaqbuck69
------------------------
So, whose payroll are you on? Is it possible they will fund your reading some history?

If so, you would learn that despite the invasions by Romans, et al, there has been a Jewish presence in Israel throughout the past two thousand years.

The majority of Jews in Israel are not white.

They are from the Middle East and Africa.

Would have been nice if whoever's paying yu to blog here had given some of us a hand in saving your co-blacks. Of course, we don't call them "Black," or Brown (like me).

WE call them Jews.

rdupuy11, necessaryaccessory, jos45:

You guys are beyond words. You guys are twisting Blaqbuck69's words. He is right when he objects to bringing African-Americans into the picture, needlessly. The present day Israel with free passage to the European Jews is dead wrong, despite the facts on the ground. I can understand that the an Israel for Sephardic Jews would have been totally justified than the creation of Pakistan. But to say that a person whose forefathers had abandoned (for whatever reason) the middle east some 1500 years ago has more rights to return there over a person who was born there and had been there for generations is plain wrong. I don't care if you bandy around that stupid book of fables called the bible. Even according to that book of fables is quite clear that the Hebrews of 3000 - 4000 years ago had also invaded those lands and conquered them. Even today, why is it that European who professes to be born of Jewish forefathers gets to move to Israel, while a 65 year old palestinian who was born right there is not allowed.

Besides jos45 makes this condescending remark of the Helen Thomas's forefathers had helped King Solomon build his temple. Another fairy tale. Even if true this character and his father David were nothing but pond scum as far as their behavior goes. Why these two scoundrels are considered great is beyond me. Reading of OT just does not show them in such light.

The author writes,

"I will never forgive her offensive last words per se, but rest well, Ms. Thomas, on the billions of other words and on the 90 years it took to say them "

You need to clarify your post. What is your point? She is the utterer of those words. Either you forgive her or you don't.

How she rests is a matter of indifference to me, and, I would, imagine, to most of us.

Again, what is your point?

rdupuy11, necessaryaccessory, jos45:

You guys are beyond words. You guys are twisting Blaqbuck69's words. He is right when he objects to bringing African-Americans into the picture, needlessly. The present day Israel with free passage to the European Jews is dead wrong, despite the facts on the ground. I can understand that the an Israel for Sephardic Jews would have been totally justified than the creation of Pakistan. But to say that a person whose forefathers had abandoned (for whatever reason) the middle east some 1500 years ago has more rights to return there over a person who was born there and had been there for generations is plain wrong. I don't care if you bandy around that stupid book of fables called the bible. Even according to that book of fables is quite clear that the Hebrews of 3000 - 4000 years ago had also invaded those lands and conquered them. Even today, why is it that European who professes to be born of Jewish forefathers gets to move to Israel, while a 65 year old palestinian who was born right there is not allowed.

Besides jos45 makes this condescending remark of the Helen Thomas's forefathers had helped King Solomon build his temple. Another fairy tale. Even if true this character and his father David were nothing but pond scum as far as their behavior goes. Why these two scoundrels are considered great is beyond me. Reading of OT just does not show them in such light.

rdupuy11, necessaryaccessory, jos45:

You guys are beyond words. You guys are twisting Blaqbuck69's words. He is right when he objects to bringing African-Americans into the picture, needlessly. The present day Israel with free passage to the European Jews is dead wrong, despite the facts on the ground. I can understand that the an Israel for Sephardic Jews would have been totally justified than the creation of Pakistan. But to say that a person whose forefathers had abandoned (for whatever reason) the middle east some 1500 years ago has more rights to return there over a person who was born there and had been there for generations is plain wrong. I don't care if you bandy around that stupid book of fables called the bible. Even according to that book of fables is quite clear that the Hebrews of 3000 - 4000 years ago had also invaded those lands and conquered them. Even today, why is it that European who professes to be born of Jewish forefathers gets to move to Israel, while a 65 year old palestinian who was born right there is not allowed.

Besides jos45 makes this condescending remark of the Helen Thomas's forefathers had helped King Solomon build his temple. Another fairy tale. Even if true this character and his father David were nothing but pond scum as far as their behavior goes. Why these two scoundrels are considered great is beyond me. Reading of OT just does not show them in such light.

@BLAQBUCK69

Get offended, stay offended.

It's not going to sway my opinion, and I doubt anyone else's.

She suggested the Jews needed to "go back" to Germany, Poland, and America... nevermind that the Jewish people don't necessarily even come from those countries or even have citizenship in those countries... she went far beyond simply critizing the Israeli government for occupying the Gaza strip - to actually suggesting that Israeli citizens don't have the right to live in Israel.

In your rush offense, you failed to pick up on that? The logical place for an Israeli to live, is in Israel...she decidedly proclaimed that should be dispersed to the far winds instead.

The manner in which that is related to telling Americans who are black to go back to Africa, is it would be like picking on one ethnic group and telling them to leave their own country.

Maybe less emotion, and more rational thinking is in order.

For BLAQBUCK69
Speak for yourself. I’m African American and I find her words AND yours offensive and divisive. She should have been fired and you should pick up a history book.

hashivestu writes:

"Thomas was only giving voice to a theme deeply imbedded in world attitudes toward the Jews who, despite our peccadillos and unworthiness of the honor, remain chosen by God." Are you for real? Jews "remain chosen by God"? You are no different from those murderous bigots, and fanatics of Hamas, & Hizbollah. It is the nut cases like you who insist on settling on every inch of Palestine are exacerbating the problem. I wish you all crawl under a rock with your bigoted friends from Islam.

Mr Blaqbuck69!
There was no Palestinian People before the Hebrews came back to their ancient motherland. After the Jews transformed a desert to a flourishing garden thousands of arabs, bedouins and others, came to the so-called Palestine from Syria, Trans-Jordan, Lebanon, Sinai...

Forgiveness is overrated. Helen Thomas: Never Again, Never Forget.

SCORAN said: "Nobody would be defending her if she called for ethnically cleansing blacks back to Africa..."

My response: As an African American, I am highly offended by this analogy/comparison... the two scenarios are EXTREMELY different. My people were brought to America by force; enslaved for centuries; and oppressed by law. Israelis, like it or not, imposed themselves onto the native Palestinians and, citing a colonial power [Great Britain] that had no legitimate right/authority to give away something that they themselves did not rightfully own, effectively stole land and property through Zionist terrorism and thievery.

Comparing the African American predicament (because we still have not achieved self-determination) to the ongoing evil being committed on the natives of Palestine is HIGHLY OFFENSIVE! On behalf of all African Americans (NOT on a Zionist payroll), please stop making this argument!!!

Helen, for God Sake, why?!!! Your Lebanese forefathers supplied materials (wood) to King Solomon for the building of the first Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. Tell the arabs to go home to Mecca and Medina. You know, I think that because the support of your forefathers to King Solomon - I'll forgive you.

SCORAN said: "Nobody would be defending her if she called for ethnically cleansing blacks back to Africa..."

My response: As an African American, I am highly offended by this analogy/comparison... the two scenarios are EXTREMELY different. My people were brought to America by force; enslaved for centuries; and oppressed by law. Israelis, like it or not, imposed themselves onto the native Palestinians and, citing a colonial power [Great Britain] that had no legitimate authority to give away something that they did not rightfully own, effectively stole land and property through Zionist terrorism and thievery.

Comparing the African American predicament (because we still have not achieved self-determination) to the ongoing evil being committed on the natives of Palestine is HIGHLY OFFENSIVE! On behalf of all African Americans (NOT a Zionist payroll), please stop making this argument!!!

The racists and the anti-semites have no shame any more. They lift up rheir heads again. The western world is frightened by the followers of the "religion of the sword" (Din al Seif) and by the "shahids". The jews and Israel in particular are the scapegoat accused for every evil. It is sad and unjust but it is not new. We shall overcome!!!

The only reason for "forgiving" Helen is that she is beloved by members of the press corps as one of their own and by feminists as a role model and ground breaker. People who cannot bring themselves to condemn her and go out of the way to point out that only conservatives called for her immediate expulsion from the White House press corps.

She is a woman who came out for ethnic cleansing for heavens sake! The mass expulsion of Jews from Israel. These same people will not forgive the people of Arizona -- they are boycotting the state --for applying U.S. immigration law, but they say forgive this woman for endorsing the credes of Hammas and Hezbollah, and of Iran's tyranical Islamic rule.

I say forgive Isreal for over reacting to the provocation of embargo breaking terrorist sympathizers.

Helen Thomas touched a raw nerve with her comments. As a journalist, she should have known that in Europe before WWII there were signs posted, "Jews go back to Palestine." When we went back to Palestine, now the Thomases of the world want us to leave there too. Obviously, there is nowhere where the Jews can expect fair, hospitable treatment in the long run. The mentality, even here in the USA, is "It's those damned Jews! Why are they always causing so much trouble?" This litany is very old and has not changed. Thomas was only giving voice to a theme deeply imbedded in world attitudes toward the Jews who, despite our peccadillos and unworthiness of the honor, remain chosen by God. It is resentment of THIS fact that lies behind the general resentment of the Jews. Read Prager and Telushkin, "Why the Jews?"

karen pomer
Pitiful!

Correction "This include most of the Saudi royal family and the ruling elite of Israel." Should have read "This include most of the Saudi royal family and the ruling elite of middle east and the 47 OIC countries"

I was first introduced to Israel during the 1967 war. In fact I was not at all aware of Judaism and its connection to Christianity and Islam. I was only aware of Christians & Muslims as they lived amongst us in a predominantly Hindu, but a secular nation. Given the fact that Israel was engulfed by Muslim neighbors, I was very fascinated and impressed with Moshe Dyan's troops and undoubtedly rooted for them.

As I grew up I ran in into one Jew during my under graduate years, but nothing more. My acquaintance with Eli was quite indifferent as with, say Subash, or John , or Lateef. But I was learning more and more about the world history. As my knowledge grew, I grew more and more skeptical about the legitimacy of creation of modern Israel. This is not to mean that I thought 1500 years of pogrom in Europe were acceptable to me, far from it. Nonetheless, something about the creation of modern state of Israel seemed wrong. I could feel a Jewish state in the middle east is probably justifiable, as the colonialists were leaving and would have been more justifiable than say creation of Pakistan. But the creation of modern Israel essentially for the Europeans of Jewish descent seemed wrong. Two wrongs do not ever make one right. If that is justified, then why not create a Zoaraster land in current day Iran and allow all the Parsees to move there. Parsees of today, living in India are 100% Indians. No body better think otherwise. So in my mind the genesis of modern state of Israel was wrong. So much for taking care of the historical facts.

That being said, I think Arabs, & Palestinians in particular need to come to terms with the facts on the ground. Given your state of technology, culture, type of governments, leadership both social 7 political amongst your countries you can be at this for next hundred years and things will not change, if left to your own devices. Israel has shown your impotency for the whole world to see, for the past 60+ years. You have seen your messiahs, starting with the bombastic windbag Gammal Abdul Nasser, to the latter day Nebuchadnezzar Saddam Hussein and several in-between have shown themselves up as nothing but meglomanaical dictators and the vilest of persons to be born on this planet. This include most of the Saudi royal family and the ruling elite of Israel. Throw away the stupid book, throw away them imams and mullahs, negotiate earnestly and sincerely with Israel and ameliorate your situation. Unlike what your good book says asks you to do, you have one and only one life make most of it for yourself and your children.

A more benign view of her remarks is that she was really asking the following question: "Why does Israel need to build new settlements in disputed land to house people, many of whom have migrated from other countries? This only aggravates the security situation for the whole world. Could not some of these people find a home in some of the original countries which have hopefully become less anti-Semitic?" I wonder if anyone has a real answer to this question. Also, could not Israel build skyscrapers on existing land to house the new migrants or pay for any land that might be claimed by others? I hope someone can clarify this for me.

It seems that the right-wing rabbi that did the interestingly-edited James-O’Keefe-style ‘gotcha’ video attack on Helen Thomas does racist impressions of Mexicans:

Rabbi Who Brought Down Helen Thomas Has Great ‘Mexican’ Impression

This weekend, thirty seconds of video surfaced in which veteran DC reporter Helen Thomas, in a snippet of an informal interview, is asked about her views on Israel. In the uproar that’s followed, the 89-year-old Thomas has announced her retirement, ending a career that spans back to President Eisenhower and opening a literal front-row seat to Fox News.

The Flipcam video in question was shot and posted by Rabbi David Nesenoff, who runs the Geocities-esque fledgling video blog RabbiLive.com. The Helen Thomas video is by far the most visited part of the site, having racked up over a million views since Thursday, with most other videos barely clearing a thousand — and, smartly, it takes up most of the site’s front page, along with a teaser for more forthcoming footage from the same interview.

Anyway, here’s a video from February of this year in which Rabbi Nesenoff dons a terrible Mexican impression and makes a lot of jokes about being detained by ICE. You’ve got a stronger stomach than me if you can make it past the one about being a dishwasher. What is it with these gotcha-guys and wigs?

The video, "Holy Weather", that went with this was apparently removed rather recently "by the user" from his website. Of course.

If any of the prominent people (especially guys like Ari "Mouth of Sauron" Fleischer) currently lining up to kick Helen Thomas in the teeth will criticize Nesenoff for this, I will be very surprised.

To mevans041 who writes "I fail to understand why being against the bullying of Palestinians by Israel automatically makes you anti-semitic. Sure, she crossed the line with the whole, 'go back to Poland...',".

Being against Israel's conduct in the situation regarding Palestine is a legitimate concern. It's a legitimate political viewpoint to say that Israel is the agressor although I see it personally as a painful result of an unfortunate and agressive hatred of Israel by much of the Arab world that forces Israel to take such extreme and forceful measures to protect its people. But both are fair sides of an issue. Neither is pro or anti-semetic in it's essence. And Right-wing, left-wing - we should all want a safe, harmonious life for the Jews of Israel and the Arabs in Israel and Gaza.

However, "Go Back to Poland" means your anti-Israel stance is rooted in a blame the Jews mentality. In Thomas's view, there's no fault on the Arab side? This is 100% the Jews fault? My hope and belief is that nearly 100% of Jews around the world would say "Let the Arabs in and around Israel live peacefully and safely as long as their purpose is not to destroy Israel." Could the same be said about the Arab world? Would that many say let the Jews live peacefully in Israel as long as they don't harm or hinder the Palestinians? I'll assume from the confidence of your comment that you believe that. I wish I could.

For anyone to infuse a political justice issue with an anti-human statement like "Go home Jews" is not right and it should scare you as my neighbor, someone who should be on the lookout of my concerns as a fellow American, albeit a Jewish one. Blaming politics is fair game. Blaming people is when safety and freedom for mankind are at risk.

Suppose that I really go back "home" to Poland or Germany - what will I find in my old "home"? Concentration camps, crematoriums. destroyed jewish villages and synagogues, graveyards...Is there any human being who is ready to "go back" to such a home? No! I invite Helen Thomas to visit me in my new home in Israel and I will show here what are the wonderful achievements of this country and then I will invite her to cross the border into Hizbullah dominated Lebanon. She will feel the difference. Then, maybe I"ll forgive her. Besides, the turkish captain of the so called "humanitarian ship" replied to the Israeli Navy Officer who asked him to change his course: "Shut up!! Go back to Auschwitz!!!. Dear Helen, the "humanitarian" captain asked us to back "home" too. What a coincidence?!!!

She called for the ethnic cleansing of Jews from israel. I cannot see how people can deny it's antisemitic. Nobody would be defending her if she called for ethnically cleansing blacks back to Africa.

It just shows how mainstream antisemitism has coming, that people excuse calls for ethnic cleansing if it's directed at Jews.

This is outrageous! What is anti-Jew or Anti Israel? Are the Jews above criticism/ Are they above the law? Are they above the constitution? Everybody criticize even the United States and feel protected under the freedom of speech. Only when says something about the JEW does the constitution seem to be silenced! What hypocrisy, what conniving? Didn't Jesus call their ancestors hypocrite, serpents, brood of serpents? .... Where is Jesus when we need him most?

As a journalist, the hardest thing for me is the fact that I'm not allowed to even put a campaign sign in my front yard. Helen broke the unbiased reporter boundary. Maybe if it was an op-ed piece...She's 89, my hero and one of the reasons I became a journalist. I just hope my career spans until I'm 89 and that I have served my profession as expertly as the "Sitting Buddha" has done for close to 60 years. I also want to go out in a blaze of honesty, just like Ms. Helen.

I, too, am Jewish, and if I had it within my power, I'd forgive Helen Thomas.

I did not know she was anti-Jewish, or anti-Israel. I just knew over a 40 year period that she was a true American. People make mistakes, and Ms. Thomas did on her comments on going to to Germany.

Actually, I'm a German Jew (my father was rounded up in Kristallnacht). But rumor has it that 1,500 years ago in the destruction of Rome 500 AD, the German mercenary seized Jewish women as brides and took them to Germany, and the women raised their kids as Jews. That may be doubtful, but I view it as probable.

However, the point is: The Jews originally came from Israel, and that is where they want to go to. And the Arabs should stop trying to KILL others in a racist way. That's the point: allow people to live where they will, especially if they come from there, and do not agree with groups who want to kill or displace entire ethnic communities.

Forgive; schmorgive. There’s more to what Helen Thomas said than simply the words that were spoken. Ms. Thomas has a lot more insight into things Israel-Palestine than anyone commenting here on what she said. Being the daughter of Lebanese immigrants has given her more than a front row seat view of the good, the bad, and the ugly of the establishment of Israel, and of how Israel and her neighbors have treated each other.

May be I can forgive her anti-semitic views - they are not new. But, I can't stand her ignorance regarding the well documented links between the Jews and the Holy Land. Does she remember that Saint Jesus (Yeshua) was a jew born in Judea. If He appears again in the Holy Land - does He have to go back "home" to Poland or Germany? It is legitimate to criticize Israel but it is not legitimate to undermine the legitimacy of the Jewish State.

Dear Mr Lear,

There is nothing to forgive Helen Thomas for she spoke the truth. What she said is not anti-Semitic, it's anti-Zionist and their is a huge difference.

Even Nathan Birnbaum, the Austrian journalist and philosopher, credited with coining the word "Zionism" turned against it in his later years. In the late 1930's he moved to the Netherlands and published a anti-Zionist newspaper called "Der Ruf" together with my grandfather Henri B. van Leeeuwen, an Orthodox Jew. They agreed with Helen that the Jewish people had no right to occupy Palestine where the Palestinian people had lived for generations. Birnbaum, died before WW2 but, my grandfather joined the Dutch Resistance and was eventually arrested and sent to Bergen-Belsen. He survived to spend the rest of his life committed to peace and anti-Zionism. He would have defended Helen's words.

Last night I went to LAX to welcome home one of the co-founder's of the Free Gaza Movement , Mary Hughes, a 76 year-old grandmother, who by coincidence was a writer for your wonderful show "All in the Family." Most of us who greeted her are Jewish, and had attended several demonstrations outside the Israeli Consulate condemning the massacre of at least 9 Free Gaza Flotilla members by Israeli commandos.

Now, are we all anti-Semitic deserving of condemnation? Please don't forgive us, for speaking-out against the continued occupation and inhumane treatment of the Palestinian people by the hands of Israel.

Best, Karen Pomer
Los Angeles, CA

Her "just being there" never delighted me for a minute, let alone "for so many years". She was always tremendously offensive to me.
Anyway, it is not a matter of forgiving and forgetting- that is childish and really her comments were so bad they can never be forgotten. It is simply a matter of recognizing that she is an inappropriate reporter whose comments should not be tolerated in such a public arena.

Rapid forgiveness incentivizes bad behavior. Forgiveness withheld will help her reflect about what she has done, and why she has done it, and perhaps change her behavior (and beliefs). We can only hope.

Norman Lear's comment is pure class and if everyone were as forgiving many of our problems would cease.

I'm not so sure that what she said was horrible. Insensitive I suppose at worst. I simply can't understand why it is so bad to criticize Israel in this country. The fact that Jews were persecuted by Germany does NOT give them the right to persecute others. What they are doing to the Palestinian people qualifies as persecution. Wouldn't you fight for your homeland if you were driven from it through violence? Read the history and understand the whole story...

To warrant forgiveness, shouldn't the person that has done wrong be genuinely remorseful? At most she has "regretted" her comments as not accurately reflecting her belief in the path to peace in the Middle East.

The fact that she used the oft-repeated, and classicly anti-semitic, canard of the Jew as "outsider" is the most telling hint as to the content of her heart, and what makes it impossible for so many to forgive her.

Helen Thomas was a fixture in American journalism and the White House press room. Unfortunately, she is human and has personal opinions. Should she have voiced them so publicly? No. Over a quiet dinner with friends discussing things? Yes. She's a tough old gal who calls it like she sees it, and it saddens me that her career ended on such a sour note. Be strong, Helen. Team Lear.

Mr. Lear, I do agree that the comments Ms. Thomas made were inappropriate. However, where was your same objection when On May 1, on MSNBC's "Hardball", House Republican Majority Leader Dick Armey said he and I quote "I happened to believe that the Palestinians should leave." He was fine with Israel pushing them out. Why was there no outcry for his resignation. You should ask yourself why he was allowed to make such blatantly racist comments, but not Ms. Thomas.

I fail to understand why being against the bullying of Palestinians by Israel automatically makes you anti-semitic. Sure, she crossed the line with the whole, 'go back to Poland...', but only the moderately informed American takes notice of the fact that the rest of the world sees us as kiss-asses for Israel. Disgust about the conflict is based on the actions of Israel versus a virtually nonexistent Palestine, not about THEIR reasons for fighting.

Forgive her like you forgave Trent Lott or Imus when they said stupid things about other cultures. Seems there are two sets of policies and rules when requesting sympathy in this country; and it depends on which side of the aisle you sit.

What she said was horrible but as a culture we have become to hostile we all must learn to forgive, I am with Norman.