A church for people like us

Decentdust wrote:

Coloradodog: Is fundamentalism really the defining fact of religion today? Obama WON, if you recall, and to do so, he had to get a LOT of religious people to vote for him. The Pat Robertsons and the Bin Ladens just get more media attention - they create "man bites dog" stories, things unexpected and unusual, i.e. followers of Jesus calling for political assassinations.
______________________________

Point well taken. Mine is why don't more of the mainstream "religious" folks denounce their radical extremists?

My knowledge of churches are restricted to bars,

Disdain for senior-officers(desk) is common, among common folk with their own understanding and often reflected in casual conversation.

Cuban leaf is dry, a good Honduran should be equal. Though I gave them up long ago.

Had drinks with Korean Veteran once, tail gunner, respected. Talked about those tracers coming up, said he put everything he had down on it.

I fell in love with a seamstress watching her sow,

Phil,
Judaism is not a conversion-based religion.
If one is born into a home where Judaism is practiced, one is considered born Jewish.

How is one born a jew? I am not born a Christian, I become one.

test

Farnaz... I hope they ban you. You just seem to boil over with hate and have no respect for anyone. Whenever I come to this site, your anger stuns and saddens me. You seem to have nothing better to do then come on here and foam at strangers. Get a life.

Posted by: decentdust
--------------------------
I have no idea who you are and I care less. The only person boiling over and foaming at strangers is you, since you obviously have no idea of whom I've taken issue with. One, Whistling, is a Jew Hater, a Holocaust Denier, notorious all over WaPo.

If you'd bothered to read his posting on this thread, you would have gotten a glimpse. The other is a long-time blogger, who just doesn't like minorities, a bleached fellow, as it were, a minority who doesn't wish to be one.

Next time, you have the urge to blow up and lash out, think first. Indiscriminate, uninformed reviling is incomprehensible and speaks ill of you.

I'd also recommend a bit more substance in your comments. Take time with them. Consider the essay and think through what others have posted.

"The story written highlighted Edith Bunker as a perfect model; not true... in the episode where she is having problems with menopause, she lashes out at Archie.
Self control is a problem overlooked in this country."
Posted by: freeparking

"Didn't Jesus lash out at the temple moneychangers?"
Posted by: bproulx45

And He wasn't even menopausal!

"From these postings you can see how different our perceptions of the same universe are, it seems that organized religion has driven us apart instead of together.
God is a circle whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."
Posted by: timechange28

Timechange28, I think I understand what you are getting at. None of really live in the same place. We try to use language to communicate with each other, but we seldom really understand each other. That's why I think it's so important to respect each other's views, and get so frustrated with the "one true way" mentality. People will find divinity, or not, in many different ways, and those differences don't invalidate the search, or the people searching.

"I have felt that if there was no other reason to believe in God, Havana leaf would suffice."

YES! finally someone I agree with, only make it the first time I heard Jimi Hendrix's guitar on "Power of Soul."

My only issue is the tendency to chalk it all up to my body and brain and their connection to each other and to the world, but breakfast can still be a religious experience.

Conversations are really the best example, the Irish philosopher John O'Donohue said. "I" can disappear in conversation, music, reading, whatever.

Coloradodog: Is fundamentalism really the defining fact of religion today? Obama WON, if you recall, and to do so, he had to get a LOT of religious people to vote for him. The Pat Robertsons and the Bin Ladens just get more media attention - they create "man bites dog" stories, things unexpected and unusual, i.e. followers of Jesus calling for political assassinations.

Farnaz... I hope they ban you. You just seem to boil over with hate and have no respect for anyone. Whenever I come to this site, your anger stuns and saddens me. You seem to have nothing better to do then come on here and foam at strangers. Get a life.

"There was a time when people were arrested for impersonating cops and military personnel. Maybe we should do the same for people like Lear who impersonate religious authority.
If everyone has their own silly, self-celebratory religion as espoused by the likes of Lear, it will make political liberalism look positively coherent by comparison. Maybe that is the point of this editorial."
Posted by: theduke89,

Theduke89, I take it you are not a big fan of the first amendment, "...arrest... people like Lear who impersonate religious authority," indeed.

Seriously, theduk89, I trust you consider yourself a patriot. You might want to think carefully about how you attack people for raising the specter of differing viewpoints. How, exactly, is that in keeping with the pluralistic, freedom loving, individualistic nature of the American Constitution?

And where does politics come into the equation? How come everything is now "liberal" or "conservative" suddenly? What's next? Don't use that "liberal" parmesan cheese on your pasta, here's the "conservative" mozzarella?

Dear Mr. Lear:

There used to be religion for people like you and me, both. Religion of love, community and generosity.

Unfortunately, those participating in this type of religion were so meek they allowed their religions to by hijacked by murderous Muslim terrorists, the right wing Fox News / Huckabee sect of Christianity and by Jews who can do nothing else but hate Christians and Muslims (hello, Farnaz). The rest of us stood idly by and failed to denounce the Fred Phelps, Yaacov Teitels and Osama Bin Ladens of the world and the consequence is that religion as we new it has become an ugly, hateful spectacle of intolerance and political wedge issues to implement dangerous and exclusive political strategies.

NikosD99,

You to Norman Lear:
"Would you do me a great favor and read the accounts of how these two found the meaning of life? You can read about the eunuch in the latter part of Acts 8 and about the centurion in Acts 10. That's all I am asking you to do. If you feel any tinge or tugging at your heart, yield to it. Thanks for your story."

And if Mr Lear does not become "saved" as a result of your recommended reading he's still destined for Hell, eh Nikos?

No matter how polite your phrasing, you're only peddling threats: Jesusgod or eternal torment - the same old terrorism.

If you feel any tinge or tugging at your heart...

Thanks Farnaz,

It's a pretty poem by taylor. thanks.

TO MR. LEAR

I thoroughly enjoyed reading about your religious experiences. I must admit that I was somewhat surprised as I didn't think of you as being particularly religious. Just goes to show you that one never knows what's going on in the heart of others. I was especially pleased to read that Edith Bunker's character was modeled after what you folks perceived would be Jesus' reaction to a given situation. It tells me that you are much closer than you realize in your search for meaning in life as you journey down the "River of Reverence".

After reading your essay and learning that you are deeply religious, I thought of two men in the Book of Acts who reverenced God. One was a eunuch of great authority under Queen Candace of Ethiopia. The other was a Roman centurion. Would you do me a great favor and read the accounts of how these two found the meaning of life? You can read about the eunuch in the latter part of Acts 8 and about the centurion in Acts 10. That's all I am asking you to do. If you feel any tinge or tugging at your heart, yield to it. Thanks for your story.

For whatever faults Mr. Lear might have, the following allows him to write an opinion about life:

"During World War II, he (Mr. Lear) served in the Mediterranean Theater as a radio operator/gunner on Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress bombers with the 772nd Bombardment Squadron, 463rd Bombardment Group (Heavy) of the Fifteenth Air Force. He flew 52 combat missions, for which he was awarded the Air Medal with four Oak Leaf Clusters. Lear was discharged from the Army in 1945. He and his fellow WWII crew members are featured in the book "Crew Umbriago" by Daniel P.Carroll (tail gunner), and also in another book: 772nd Bomb Squadron: The Men, The Memories by Turner Publishing Company."

Hi Spidermean,

How are you? Do you know the poetry of the Puritan minister, Edward Taylor? It is very beautiful, I think.

http://www.harvardsquarelibrary.org/poets/taylor.php

Regards,
Farnaz

Spidermean2,

Thee:
"When the devils saw Jesus, they beg him not to send them to the abyss. Onofrio, be wise and don't associate yourself with devils. They can't be saved anymore unlike yourself. Don't be fooled."

The Abyss is the source of every good there is, Spider. No true devil fears it. Those who quailed before the Galilean were but piggy little wannabes, still three parts angel.

We picked clean Jesus' bones long ago - a most toothsome repast. Now he's just ink and paper. Whenever we please, we can float him up as kite, and shred him on some old spire.

5amefa91:

Moderate, still trying to muscle your way into the Talented Tenth, are you? Won't happen. Not in this lifetime. WEB wouldn't have had it in his.

The door was locked for you decades ago.

The transfiguration of Jesus with Moses and Elijah has a prophetic meaning. In the book of Revelation, Moses and Elijah were major characters also.

Only people who truly understands the Bible appreciate the power of Jesus and his very accurate prophecies.

It's been a while since the time I asked myself why would Jesus talk to Elijah and Moses and not the other prophets.

I believe it is not because they are more favored but it is more of a message to a coming prophecy.

The Bible is the word of God and only those who know God truly understands it.

When the devils saw Jesus, they beg him not to send them to the abyss. Onofrio, be wise and don't associate yourself with devils. They can't be saved anymore unlike yourself. Don't be fooled.

The transfiguration of Jesus with Moses and Elijah has a prophetic meaning. In the book of Revelation, Moses and Elijah were major characters also.

Only people who truly understands the Bible appreciate the power of Jesus and his very accurate prophecies.

It's been a while since the time I asked myself why would Jesus talk to Elijah and Moses and not the other prophets.

I believe it is not because they are more favored but it is more of a message to a coming prophecy.

The Bible is the word of God and only those who know God truly understands it.

When the devils saw Jesus, they beg him not to send them to the abyss. Onofrio, be wise and don't associate yourself with devils. They can't be saved anymore unlike yourself. Don't be fooled.

There is a church for people like us. It is called life and is part of nature where we are co-inhabitants with all living things. Anyone who proclaims that there is a higher being (deity?) who is superior than other deities, beings is simply foolish.

5amefa91,

O Samefag, are you not a puppet then?

No hand up your jaxie, eh?
No strings jerking you about?

No sir, you're the genuine liberated meat. Pinocchio no longer. A REAL boy.

And so elegant - "distemper" - what wit!

Spidermean2,

Thee:
"The devil is much wiser than people think he is."

Indeed he is, Spider, and God is one of his masterpieces.

God's a mirage; the devil is real. And he's chewing on you, Spider.

No god in heaven or earth, only devils. Lots of devils, agape.

Farnaz,

"...crawled right up out of the garbage it did."

This from a faux neo-Nazi sock farmer??? You should crawl out of the garbage yourself. Get a little sun. It might be good for your distemper.

We can experience God in many ways; but we cannot establish His kingdom until we know what He says. The simple lack of reading the word of God keeps us tied to the world system that is enslaving us to employment and destroying the world, our animals and our people.

Jesus came and showed that the science of this earth is substandard and without power compared to the science of faith. Faith believes God is and that He gave instructions to be followed for our good; faith follows God’s written word. The great advancements and riches of the Jews and Gentiles were some of the reason for the Holocaust, Crusades, wars, and plagues according to the word of God in Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28. It is our window to the past, the present and the future. In a way it is like virtual reality; we choose the path and receive the lifestyle. Obey and get rain in due season, healthy world and peace. Ignore His word and HE promises to send terror and 4 x 7 curses UNTIL, UNTIL we turn to Him in truth.

Jesus came and told us the love part of God's laws; he did not do away with them as Christians preach. The ceremonies, and love offerings of animals to God was to keep us close to the land so we didn't pollute the world as we are doing now. All God commanded is for our good. We must read it and believe as Jesus did; then we will see the mighty miracles Jesus saw and we will know the one true God that sent Jesus Christ to reveal Himself to us.

Anybody who truly understands the Bible and its prophecies will be awed by the accuracy of the words of Jesus Christ.

I can tell in detail how will WW3 occur, which countries are involved and which country is favored by God.

Jesus said that the devil exist. Peter said that its like a roaring lion seeking whom it may devour (spiritually). He uses trickery and LIES. Just like he tricked WING1 who believes that there is no devil.

The same devil tricks Norman Lear into believing that he's serving God when in reality he actually serves the devil.

The devil is much wiser than people think he is.

Beautifully expressed, Norman Lear. I know of what you speak. I am in that 'church' too, although my church-going days are long gone. But I find God everywhere, in all people, all faiths, all of nature. For me, it's trees. Trees always exhibit the spiritual nature of our world, strong, stalwart and there. Always there.

You don't need a 'religion' just tune into your own consciousness and try to see the good about you, even when it's difficult. Smell the flowers, look up at a tree. Watch the stars. Laugh with the babies. It's everywhere. God is everywhere.

This is what I know; based on 64 years of being on this earth, and two NDE's which allowed me a peak under the curtain: There is no devil-it is a figment of earlier man's ignorance. God is not an old man who sits on high and passes judgement. God/all that is is the experience of being eternally safe within the pure essence of love. And it's a whole lot more then we understand or perceive. Norman Lear speaks a truth that scares the fundies for they can not understand a God/all that is that could only be of love.

Putting my life in God's hands and getting a response. I was battling a problem for over 30 years, one day I just had enough of losing the battle and told God hey, its in your hands now, i have tried and failed and its not working. I'm tired. When I walked away the problem literally went away, i still have scars from a life fought battle but I don't have the pain. What else can I ask for? It was a miracle from God. I was sincere in this request and thankful for God's response! I believe in God my Father because He waits for me to ask, He gives me a choice, He listens to me, and I have learned to listen to Him. There are many reasons to have faith. You just have to look.

Hmmmm .... what would Jesus do????... Lessee, he would go into the halls of Congress, turning over desks and raising a ruckus because they voted against people. He would go into large rich churches that call themselves Christian and preach: "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."; He would go into the streets with ACORN as they seek to empower poor people (ACORNs only "crime"); He would show up at soup kitchens around the world bringing fishes and loaves; He would stalk down Wall Street yelling: "...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.": He would visit blacks, Native Americans, poor women and single mothers saying: "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."; and he would weep with environmentalists as we look at The Garden of Eden ... our only World ... or rather what we have left of it and he would say: those who don't care for our father's most magnificent creation .. our World ... don't deserve to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

That's just some of what Jesus would do, Mr. Lear. Do you (and all you who wrote comments) have the courage to do as Jesus would do? If so, get in action. Now! And if you won't lead, then follow or get out of the way.

Allegiance to a religion has been, for me, a slippery slope. I feel repelled by communities of faith who feel you can only get into heaven through their belief system. Or that others believing differently are "sinners" going straight to hell. I find those that exclude members of congregations because of race, sexual orientation or a myriad of other things obnoxious.

This exclusionary stance - we have the golden key to knowledge, rewards or are better than others - is disgusting. I feel we can pick and choose what suits us spiritually - there is no ONE way - no one religion or belief system that has all the answers.

What works for me is to pick and choose the meaningful parts of any religion. I like to feel charitable to others, work on helping others in whatever way I can and encourage those who are struggling to find their way.

It is good enough to be ok with your own spirituality and not look for external validation for another group or community.

In my mind there are two sides to religions, the 'religious' side and the 'spiritual' side. The religious side of religion is based on what other people have said, or interpreted, and at it's heart are stories of other people's spiritual experiences or interactions with the Divine.
Whereas the spiritual side of religion is based on one's own spiritual experiences, thoughts, interpretations, or even interactions with the Divine. These experiences can be complex, or as simple as seeing delight in a child's eye or a group of people sharing a laugh, as Mr. Lear described.

The religious side of religion also usually entails having other people telling you what to do, say and believe and they are speaking for God, or they claim that God is speaking through them. And if you disobey or disbelieve, it is the work of the Devil and you will be punished or not Saved, ect. Examples of both sides can be found in this comment section. The two sides can be exclusive, but not neccessarily so.

By the way, Mr. Lear, I found your article to be expressed beautifully and I found your shows to be thought provoking, they held a mirror up to our society, showing the good, the bad and the ugly.

PAUL6554 ~ Ghandi is not only NOT mentioned he falls into a peculiar category. In his autobiography he suggests that Christianity may well have some core of truth, else why the Cathedrals and charities.

I don't think he knew the "You almost persuade me" problem.

I suppose would could take Pilate, who is mentioned in the Bible, and Ghandi, and create a sort of koan against which we could bounce thoughts (after the fashion of the Zen perfectionists who do without Scripture of any kind, but do have some stories that allow the devotee to seek purchase to examine self to find answers).

We could address all sorts of moral questions in this manner and arrive at a sort of personal theology.

Applying a bit of inductive reasoning there, we end up with Norman Lear ending up as something other than Jewish as he imagines.

I doubt that would surprise his friends.

Let me guess. These people who talk of love without the knowledge of Jesus could be the same people who fight for abortion rights, pot legalization, perverted gay sex, fornication (hollywood is awashed with it where Morman Lear belongs,) etc.

There is no salvation without Jesus coz the devil is real and man is no match to the devil's traps.

When you jail a murderer, it is not called bigotry or hate. It's called SANITY. When you tell these people that what they are doing is wrong, it's called SANITY.

The problem is people want to play blind.

I don't fear death, at least not to an unhealthy extent so I guess I'd answer just to try and make sense of it all. Where does Love come from? There's no real reason for it when you look at the rest of the animal kingdom so my answer to that is God.

I had a religion professor who said there are two great commandments--Love the Lord your God, and Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself. If you do both, you will be good to go. It is all about love. When we fall short as the saying goes, it is because we fail to love, not judge, but love. I attend a mainline church. We are all about helping and loving. I do not hear the hate that I do hear from some churches. We all come to God in our own way, or we choose not to believe. My faith tells me to love you, no matter your choice.

Merry meet again, Dragon Dancer - long time, eh?

Everything can indeed be an act of worship - weeding the garden, stirring the compost, sorting the recyclables, cooking meals, stroking the pets, kissing my lover - it's all connectedness.

Lepidopteryx, I agree with you! I was raised Episcopalian, but even as a child I knew Christianity was the wrong path for me. When I "quituated" Sunday school at 14, I was free to find the path I was truly meant to follow, and that path is Wicca. I feel more connected with the Goddess and the God than I ever did with the Judeo-Christian deity, and virtually any act of daily life can become an act of worship in my faith. Something as "mundane" as taking a walk or working in the gardens, or even doing something good for the earth like recycling or cleaning up a polluted stream, can become an act of respect and homage to the Goddess because of how it's helping Her heal from our damage. My main time to commune with Them? When I'm walking my older daughter to school in the morning and watching the sun rise and the birds come out and start singing. That time of day is so filled with promise and peace before the chaos of the day begins that it is like no other. Simple things like that are an act of worship for me. A brightly colored sunset, a bountiful harvest from the vegetable garden, watching birds squabble at the bird feeder (this weekend we've been blessed by a bounty of cardinals), watching the snow fall, all of these moments connect me with the Goddess and the God in ways that being stuck in church never did or could.

All successful religions comfort people with the same one thought. You will never die. Believe that, you can believe anything.

Norman, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am hoping for a world where folks with different faith views can talk and share and respect one another. Writing a column and having people respond is fine, but it would be great to sit and talk face to face. Let us replace these "contests" with real "conversations"

Jim Steinberg:
I wonder how God feels about the cruel, mean, jealous, hurtful believers who are so angry with Norman Lear's view of God here. These sanctimonious nitwits are ever so holy in their self-righteous contempt and hatred for everyone who doesn't love God precisely way they do. The word "love" in the context of these haters is as laughable as anything Archie Bunker ever said.

It's interesting, isn't it? I never cease to be amazed by the comments of those who practice the Religion of Love, comments posted with no consciousness of irony.

Of course, they are not alone, these lovers of their fellow man, in their self-righteous narcissism and/or racism. Scary stuff for an American.

GSN, I'd reverse those two priorities (my responsibility to and for my daughter to trumps my responsibility to and for my husband), but other than that quibble, I think you're right on the money.

Mr. Lear wants to define his own compact with the Almighty, whom he seems to envision as an obliging supplier of sweet corn and high-quality cigars. He professes to love Jewish culture while sneering at the Torah, rabbis, and other people who take it seriously. When an 87 year old man boasts so proudly of his self-orientation, however, he simply validates the proverbial wisdom of Solomon:

"A fool always thinks his own way best."

Our nation has a glut of prisons full of men and women that turned on their fellow man...they removed prayer and the golden rule from our schools...and replaced it with lies.

Posted by: freeparking
*******************************************
Do you understand the concept of parenting? It doesn't sound like it.

The notion that I am responsible for my actions and that my actions should lead to a better situation for others as a result of me being around is what makes me feel religious. Really, "religious" is not the best word. Responsible, accountable, duty laden are better ones.

My responsibilities for others are in this order: wife, child, family, others. If everyone were to have this schedule, the individual would be covered many times over. He would not need to harbor any egocentrism that would lead to a selfishness, robbing others of his gifts.

As a clergy person I found the Mr. Lear's prose both poignant and honest. I also never say as an ordained person I have all the answers, I am a seeker like everyone else. The day I believe I have the market cornered on theology or spirituality is the day I hang up my collar.

Any minute now, we should be hearing from the Pat Robertsons, that the bad snowstorms plaguing the South are due to their hatred of their common fellow man, holding-up healthcare, lobbying, and banking reforms etc.
But, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for such "enlightments."

(LOL)

One word can sum up spirituality and religion: Application. Science without application is nonsense. Medicine without application is not curative. Education without application is nothing more than the holder of words. Religion and Spirituality without application is hollow.

I purport and report to one Being, which I prefer to call God. That means He/She holds my life in his/her hands and I look to Him/Her for my support and sustenance. That has never failed me in the past, however when I look to myself for the answers I find confusion and calamity in my affairs and relationships. Why? Because the focus is all on me and not others with God as the figurehead of my existence. Good article and comments. Happy Valentine's Day.

A very eloquent and thought provoking article by Mr. Lear. As a minister, while I don't necessarily feel that I've got a corner on the subject of all things spiritual, I do understand where Lear is coming from. It's reassuring to know that all of us have opportunities for spirituality wherever we might be in life.

Is "BS" the literal translation for "mamaloshen"?

I just got off the phone after a long conversation with God. (He always calls collect. I'm trying to get him to use Skype, but he's an old man and resistant to change.) I read him Lear's essay and he laughed so hard he inadvertently destroyed a galaxy that was home to 2.64*10**28 sentient creatures. Hope you're happy, Norman.

One among the places I find the spirit moving me is Church of Beethoven, which convenes in a brick warehouse just south of I-40 in Albuquerque, a short bike ride from my home where for the last two years, I have gathered with others to share poetry and music.

http://www.churchofbeethoven.org/

The experience never fails to renew my spirit. From the 15 piece orchestra playing Ravel's Bolero, to the dewy skinned beat-boxer champ whose eyes filled with tears as she gathered her courage to share her talent with us, to the flautist playing Erickson's Kryl,
I leave filled with gratitude for this fragile gift of life that is mine.

I don't need much else.

Lear, may Jesus forgive you for the all the BAD you brought to TV!

Thank you so much for putting this into such eloquent words. I have felt like this for so long, (I'm only 75, however) having been turned off by the antics of many evangelical churches where I was raised. And like you I feel like this message should be spread abroad.

I wonder how God feels about the cruel, mean, jealous, hurtful believers who are so angry with Norman Lear's view of God here. These sanctimonious nitwits are ever so holy in their self-righteous contempt and hatred for everyone who doesn't love God precisely way they do. The word "love" in the context of these haters is as laughable as anything Archie Bunker ever said.

Mr. Lear, a beautiful essay, thank you! As for a "church" for people like you, two come to mind.

One is Jewish renewal, which sees God in the bag lady at the subways station, the snow, an old man in the sky, and the ineffable name, which still commits itself to Torah and Talmud, to tikkun olam.

Another is Buddhism. Quiet, nontheistic, monistic.

Shalom!

Gee, the ChristoNazi bastard Whistling is back, crawled right up out of the garbage it did.

Resurrection?

As people have already mentioned, there is a church that welcomes you with open arms and doesn't force you to believe in a way that is not congenial to you: Unitarian Universalism. You'll find reverence to people and reverence to spirit. And it doesn't matter if you believe in one god, a hundred gods, or no gods.

CONGRATULATIONS MR. LEAR, FOR A BEAUTIFUL AND POIGNANT PIECE OF WRITING!

www.uua.org/visitors

"Our best searching will only give us indications of that truth which is infinite. yet this is no reason why we should not be looking for it, and stating it when we think we have found it."--John G. Adams

www.uua.org/visitors

MUAWIYAH — In your quick look through the Bible (all 774,746 words), did you run across Mark 16:16? "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned." What do you suppose is meant by condemned? I read it as Hell. But you are correct, Gandhi is not mentioned.

If you believe in a god, then you must also believe that the world is flat and that the earth is the center of the universe and that epileptics are possessed by demons. These are the long-standing traditions. It should make absolutely no difference that Columbus did not fall off, that Galileo saw that the sun was the center, that epilepsy is a result of a brain anomaly, or that there is no historical corroboration for any of the bible stories. The only thing that is important is that we maintain the ideas created by a primitive world. Reason and progress are tools of the devil.

Unitarians believe in one God, at most.

Is All in the Family coming out of mothballs?

Or we needed more yiddish words? (not)
To add to the three or four we're fed daily in On Faith.

Seems that the basic tenants of religion have passed this hollywood type by...

'a good cigar and people laughing, money in the bank...maybe a penthouse by the sea,

He wishes for a Church for People Like Us...there is one, it's called a synagogue.
And WHY was the headline on the front
page so MISLEADING? So people would sit still for another
harrange on Jewish customs? One every day here.

""Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world." Jesus was about love and patience and forgiveness. "

Really? What about the be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect? Or changing the 10 commandments from a judgment of moral acts to an analysis of the motivations and intent of the interior person? Or anyone who will not pickup his cross and follow me is not a fit to be my follower? Or I have not come to bring peace on the earth, but to separate parent from child, sibling from sibling, friend from friend? Or the demand to choose death over what apparently will bring life?

The fundamental flaw in Mr. Lear's argument is the most frequent error among people who would identify themselves as Jews or Christians: that one may have a "me and God" relationship without the mediation of God through the community of faith. The writer of the first epistle of St. John said it most succinctly: he who has no agape (love devoid of self-interest) for his fellow human whom he knows, sees, and lives with cannot love the God whom he has never seen.

The greatest irony of Mr. Lear's legacy is that the single greatest role, Archie Bunker, was played by perhaps one of the most faithful witnesses to this Church's faith and practice in Hollywood, Mr. Carroll O'Connor.

TBRUCIA ~ "invisible stuff" ~ like "Dark Energy" and "Dark Matter".

Current scientific observations suggest that we have a universe composed of about 71.3% dark energy and 27.4% a combination of dark matter and baryonic matter.

Not a whole lot of room for the "visible stuff", most of which we can't see anyway because it's too far away or blocked by gas clouds.

As you can see the "invisible stuff" leaves me cold argument cuts you off from contemplating darned near the entirity of existence!

It's interesting how many different ways people express the opinion that individuals are incapable of finding God on their own. That's a pretty strange position to take if we're really all God's children. Moral principles are a natural result of people learning how best to live together in peace and harmony. Arrogance is not one of those principles, but it takes arrogance for ANYONE to presume that they know God's will regarding how I should relate to to Him.

If you think the first fertility symbol created by prehistoric man wasn't perfectly acceptable in God's eyes, you need to seriously re-think how that would be inferior to a High Mass recited in Latin in some ornate cathedral by men in tall pointy hats.

I agree with Mr Lear. Communion with God is individual and personal. I have sat in many different churches, shared moments where I sensed God's presence and many more where I did not. As a young man, most of my intellectual pursuits were to science and maintaining automated systems required for my employment. These had their own influence on what I believe and also the international group of people I occasioned to meet along the way.
What I have learned from science is that "Life" may have evolved separately on Mars. Rocks recovered from Antarctica with bacterial fossils in them,"a fossilized Rotini Noodle in its sedimentary burrow" discovered by the RAT (rotating abrasion tool) on the Mars Rover and active methane production on Mars may indicate DNA based life on another planet, separate from Earth. This DNA seed may have passed from rock to planet while having its source in a galaxy far away from us. The scientific term for this is "Transpermia". The calculated odds of individual planets harboring life in the same solar system increase the odds elswhere in the universe by an incredible order of magnitude and would make life commonplace.
If God, or a Son of God were to spread the knowledge of life throughout the universe, it may have been by this method. This method would be an organism capable of evolving into its everchanging environment and advance to a higher intelligence from a singular speck of life. If you are the scientific purist of cause and effect, this would be your evidence of evolution. The odds of evolving identical DNA or even similar is extremely unlikely. We may need to go to Mars to find out with certainty. Mere observation will affect the experimental analysis and we by going there could transplant life. A bit of irony may be that we, actually came from Mars.
A simple source of life with evolutionary capabilities could be the point where God touched the Universe He created and made us in his image: An ever adapting, intellectually evolving life that seeks truth above its beginnings.
In it we may finally discover that intelligence is as integral as inert rock and energy in our magnificent universe. As we embrace all of the things that make us human, including its science, we can become "Sons and Daughters of God". We become the eyes that see and affect the Universe. Wouldn't it be wonderful to scientifically prove the Existence of God?
It would be a time to rejoice.

PAUL6554 ~ concerning Ghandi's journey to Hell ~ the Brits did imprison him during WWII for his pro-Axis (read that "Nazi") sympathies.

He may go there.

Sometimes it'snecessary to separate Ghandi from his politics to figure out what he was really up to. Obviously he was antipodal to FDR and Churchill.

So, now, to the nut cutting, I looked quickly through my KJV and I didn't find the part where Ghandi goes to Hell ~ is that perhaps in the Apocrypha?

..."Only by taking a leap of faith do you find what I found, and only when you come down do you see what I see. For faith is the power of understanding and understanding comes from the word of God. If you want to know what I know and see what I see you must take that leap of faith, otherwise you will never know what I know and you will never see what I see...

..."Call unto me; and I will answer thee and show thee; "Great and Mighty Things."
---Jeremiah 33:3

..."Be transformed by taking that leap of faith, it's the only way, to know what you now do not know and it is the only way for you too see God and heaven.

..."Many O'Lord my God are the wonders YOu have done."

Religion is like high fructose corn syrup; if you get hooked on it, it's hard to get off of it, but once you get free of it, you find that you never really needed it at all.

Forget religion if you want to live free in the Spirit and enjoy your relationship with God. I feel and have felt much of what Norman Lear is writing about, and I find great happiness in following Rev Bates www.revbates.tv and www.revbatesontheradio.org ... it is time for all of us to seek God without the limitations of religion and especially dogma.

Sigh. So many of those who have commented on Mr. Lear's article are writing from a distinctly Fundamentalist Christian perspective. These people fail to understand that Mr. Lear is Jewish and that his "religious feelings" are in fact quite typically Jewish. The Bible tells us of a Creator, G-d, who made a pact with human beings in which responsibility for the Earth and for every living thing on the Earth is shared by G-d and humans in such a way that the humans are basically the "managers" to whom the day-to-day task of taking care of the Earth and its living things has been delegated. Beyond this overarching pact with all humans, the Bible tells us of a more specific covenant that G-d made with the Israelite people (a group of people who many centuries later became "the Jews"), in which the Israelites accept the yoke of an enormous number of commandments ("mitzvot") and laws (mishpatim), some of which reflect and/or provide greater details re the earliest Divine laws (e.g., the Noahide laws), but many of which are highly specific for the Israelites (e.g., the ritual laws). The presence of G-d is clearly described as universal yet thoroughly unknowable. In fact, the Bible presents the unknowability of G-d on the part of humans as purposeful and deliberate on G-d's part. This is exactly what Lear was trying to express in very personal terms. To me, as a Jewish person, I read Mr. Lear's article and know that he is a Jew (actually, a rather good Jew) -- and I would have known it even if he didn't tell us that fact directly in the article. His use of the phrase "what would Jesus do [in this particular situation]?" is spot-on, since Jesus was, after all, a fervent Jew (it was neither his fault nor his intention that some of his disciples founded a new religion after his death) and so what that phrase really means is "what does G-d want us to do in this particular situation?" -- i.e., what is the right thing to do? what is the just thing to do? what could I do that would best contribute to Tikkun Olam (the betterment, or the "healing," of the world), which is the long-term goal of Jews?

There IS a Church for People Like Norman Lear. It's called the Unitarian Universalist Church. Unitarian Universalists believe that religious authority rests not in a book or church leader, but in the individual. We are all growing in different ways spiritually along the "River of Reverence." We may sit in the same pews, but we are having individual religious experiences. We believe different things. Some Christians believe homosexuals sin against God when they express their love for each other. Some Christians believe this is not a sin. God created all these Christians. Why would he expect them to believe the same? I don't think he did. I believe men wrote the Bible for good reasons—to help people understand and love God and one another. But they wrote it to control people through the fear of eternal damnation. I reject the doctrine of eternal damnation. It is immoral.

Consider this. Would God send Mohandas Gandhi to Hell? Gandhi did not accept Christ as his savior. He was not baptized. And yet he lived a life closer to Jesus's than perhaps any man in 2000 years. But according to the Bible, Gandhi must burn in Hell. How can one accept the Bible as the word of God, if this is true?

Gandhi once said, "My religion is based on truth and non-violence. Truth is my God. Non-violence is the means of realising Him."

And he said, "One's own religion is after all a matter between oneself and one's Maker and no one else's." This is what Unitarian Universalists believe.

A truly religious person votes the straight Democratic ticket every two and four years. He/she/they dislike few people except the Boy Scouts and the Salvation Army who are mean to gay people. Religious people find some commonality with real religions except Catholicism for obvious reasons. Religious people look for good in every human being, and believe that anyone who blows up civilians must do so out of frustration - and that they are entitled to legal defense at public expense. Religious people believe that Americans need a giant government to take care of them all their lives. It is irreligious to expect them to take care of themselves. Religious people are highly moral and are given special privileges to attack immoral people like Republicans and those who reject the teachings of Al Gore on global warming.

The only way to prevent Mr. Lear's form of religiosity from devolving into a self congratulatory miasma is to find a real person as a spiritual mentor and study his or her writings to understand their heart. One simply must have an outside standard to keep oneself true.

That and a regular practice are essential, IMO.

The devil is not an easy opponent. He is present in many religions. Jesus said that you will know a false prophet by his works.

"Unless a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (Jn 3:3).

Only one religion believes this verse (evangelical Christians). Any other way is the devil's tool. There are lots of polluted rivers out there.

People should be reminded that those who crucified Jesus were very religious.

Norman Lear seems religious, but his ways are way out of tune to the strict message of the Bible.

"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." (Mt 7:14)

It's a little stream that leads to the true light and not a broad polluted river which many people have drank.

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

Norman Lear writes: "What makes me religious is the way I experience life and the way I try to live it." This presumes that being "religious" is based on works, rather than faith. The New Testament teaches just the opposite. Romans 3:22-25. I'll place my faith on scripture that has lasted over 2000 years over Mr. Lear's message.

As an American of faith, I find Snowy's comment to be excellent. As an American, I simply smile the smile of American tolerance to sorts like theduke. I find it curious that such an angry individual espouses a faith-based thought at all. And as far as the "Menopause" episode, it simply reinforced the Edithean points that Edith, as a person, was perfect in her humanness (menopause); but the family (including Archie) she nurtured for so long stepped up (a terrific homage to the non-menopausal Edith's positive influence) to do the best they could to support her in her time of vulnerability. Perfectly human and spiritually seamless--do unto others as you would have them do unto you...especially when you are chemically discombobulated. Mr. Lear, thanks for caring enough to share your thoughts. Peace be with you.

What makes me religious?

Nothing really.

Edit - that should read "I was raised Baptist...never happy....wouldn't be happy as a Catholic."

I did not mean to imply that Catholics are not Christian, as they most certainly are.

What makes me religious? The fact that Christianity--authentic Christianity as maintained intact by the one Church that he founded--is true. That's the Church for people like us. For all people.
Posted by: KevinOrlinJohnson

Not for all people, Kev. I was raised Christian, and was never happy or fulfilled by that particular belief system. I know enough Catholics to know that I would never be happy as a Catholic either. Following a path that consists promarily of elements of Paganism and Unitarian Universalism, my soul has found joy, connectedness, and peace.

Like Mr. Lear, many find inspiration from the Beatitudes (the lessons in the Sermon on the Mount). But there are many other lessons in the four Gospels, most told in the form of parables, my favorite being: it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Our founder, Thomas Jefferson, rewrote the Gospels so as to highlight the teachings of Jesus, and I highly recommend "Jefferson's Bible" (for many years copies were given free to new members of Congress). Jesus' greatest lesson was love, love of God and love for others (the two greatest commandments), but also love for sinners, including prostitutes and killers (his own). But even Jesus had an exception for preachers; He despised them ("brood of vipors" he called them). His warning we should heed, for it is the preachers who would divide us and fill us with hate, who would "shut the kingdom of heaven" to those who do not "obey them and do everything they tell you". Jesus did indeed build a church for people like Mr. Lear, and you and me.

What about being moral and ethical?

Many claiming to be spiritual or religious do so with little moral or ethical behavior.

Yet they want others to be like them.

Edgewood, I saw the piece that way too - "I found something that makes me feel connected to the world at large and makes me want to make it a better place. I hope everyone finds something that maeks them feel that joy." Like you, I think that's a GOOD thing.

"The best sermons are lived, not preached" - a cowboy saying and one with which I agree. Many of us do not consider ourselves "religious", but do try to live our lives with respect for others and their beliefs while holding onto our own.

I consider myself an "equal oportunity heathen" and describe myself in this manner. There are many things in many religions with which I agree - Christian, Buddhist, Catholic, even Mormon. But when I read and hear the preachers, prophets, priests say that only their followers will go to heaven, then I have to disagree.

No one has God on speed-dial, no matter what some religious leaders and even politicians say.

The story written highlighted Edith Bunker as a perfect model; not true... in the episode where she is having problems with menopause, she lashes out at Archie.
Self control is a problem overlooked in this country.

Didn't Jesus lash out at the temple moneychangers?

RE:"There was a time when people were arrested for impersonating cops and military personnel. Maybe we should do the same for people like Lear who impersonate religious authority.

If everyone has their own silly, self-celebratory religion as espoused by the likes of Lear, it will make political liberalism look positively coherent by comparison. Maybe that is the point of this editorial." Posted by: theduke89

Spoken like a true Pharisee...congratulations!

Spidermean has the perfect name. He or she is a mean old poison spider. Nothing godly or Christlike about this mean, hate-filled spider. Jesus would never spout such vile, hateful things. All my life I've marveled at the way adults forget the little song we learned in Vacation Bible school: "Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world." Jesus was about love and patience and forgiveness. Spidermean is the worst example of "christian", and doesn't even know what Jesus was about. Spidermean just uses His name for his own hateful ends, just as "christians" have done all through history.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a church relatively free of hierarchy. However, a church without a practice is intellectual masturbation. The rituals may seem empty in themselves but the time and discipline they prescribe is an enforced time of reflection on the larger transcendent realities of our existence. Without them, it is too easy to get lost in the humdrum of daily existence and to lose the idea of moving toward your better self.

Mr. Lear, thanks for sharing your sense of the sacred, well done. As a gay Epicopalian with a Jewish partner, I have come to realize that the sacred which has given this life when nurtured by the natural desire to know our place in this life makes it all the richer. My guess is that the Judism of your family was in part what gave you the ablitiy to see this. Jews for the most part have the gift of the mystery without having to push one view on everyone else. There is a lesson there for us all. Grace and peace to you and thanks for the insight.

"There should be a Church For People Like Us."

Of course. I found my place where my parents and their parents went - with some exceptions, of course. My Father had his own path. We looked for open doors and open hearts. But across the street is Beth El, and we wish them well.

I just want to seek out that which is beyond my sphere and perhaps that which created. If I learn more, I will be more specific. But right now that is enough truth for me.

I'm not the first to say it--you just described Unitarian Universalism. Come on by.

Ahh Wibbit, you have my sympathies. I hope there is a better outcome for you, but if not I hope that you can have what time you have left be good time.

I'm a Buddhist and it works for me. I don't begrudge anyone else whatever they want to believe in. The only problem I have is with people who don't want to let me practice my faith unmolested. I don't spend a lot of time talking to other people about it because they don't believe what I do, and I know it, and I respect their faith.

I'm happy about the establishment clause in the US Constitution. I'm glad it can not be removed. It's one of those things that keeps the nation together.

Mostly when it comes to others ideas about how I'm going to suffer in their idea of an afterlife, I end up concluding that if even a part of what they say is true that they're the ones in trouble, not me. The hate is the problem they have. It's evil under their own theology.

"There was a time when people were arrested for impersonating cops and military personnel. Maybe we should do the same for people like Lear who impersonate religious authority.

If everyone has their own silly, self-celebratory religion as espoused by the likes of Lear, it will make political liberalism look positively coherent by comparison. Maybe that is the point of this editorial." Posted by: theduke89

---------------

Aside from the fact that people can still be arrested for impersonating cops and military personnel, do you really want to start arresting people for their conscientious individual discernment of spiritual matters? To which of the more than 30,000 worldwide Christian denominations would you send the thought police first?

I view religion as a mansion, contained in a fortress. The fortress is made up of the nearly insurmountable walls of dogma and conflicting doctrine created by human beings. The mansion is the spiritual home that's always been there, regardless of the chronological time period or cultural affiliation one is handed by fate.

One of the most impressive bastions on this fortress is science, which has the same chance of connecting with greater realities as a goldfish does with the world outside its bowl. The reach of science is constantly pushed beyond its grasp by anxious intellectuals trying to create their own meaning and significance.

Most of what is referred to as religion is no different. In it we can see not the hand of God, but the hand of man, working to construct meaning, significance, and safety--usually by creating rigid doctrines that try to create internal power through divisiveness--"my way or the highway," and fearmongering threats of hellfire and damnation.

For many, religion is little more than the carrot of salvation and the stick of damnation, with the hope of a mercedes benz or at least a better parking spot for the devout and prayerful. No wonder many people can't take it seriously.

Self-styled scientists and intellectuals who try to deny the value or existance of everything beyond what their reason provides are the lonliest and most frightened people on earth.

There are spiritual issues--learning how to love and forgive, learning to see skin as an illusion which creates the appearance of separateness. Recognizing and struggling with these issues can become a ladder that is even higher than the walls of the fortress.

There is a church for you. The Unitarian Universalist church. Try one sometime.

what confusion. you say you are born a jew but you don't or can't know scripture so you need to come to God in your own way and in your own language. what makes you a jew? the Word of the jewish bible. if you don't know what's in it how can you be a jew? and to play lipservice to Jesus by talking about the sermon on the mount,skips over who He said He was. how can someone claim to be God and still have sanity enough to do and say all the other things He produced? because he was who he said he was. and Jesus sited his belief in scipture,in that day meaning your jewish bible,as being Gods word. why would you make up your own god when you have the letter God wrote us about who he was and what the plan is? it is either what the book say's or we made it up in our own mind. and the fact that the jews are in israel today is a miracle and proof of the word.

Its the best show in town. Problem is, it creates a inner turmoil in the decision making process: reality, common sense, and recognition of human nature versus the reflex desire to do everything for everyone. Rust never sleeps and neither does the turmoil.

As far back as I can remember in my life, even before I really had any religious learning, I believed in a God. My life has taken many twists and turns, some good, some not so good. Almost 30 years ago, I became directly involved in a church, the Gospel, and the scritures. That experience has changed my life in too many ways to mention. Most importanly, it has helped me to develop a much better understanding of that belief I have always had in a God.
For me, experiencing God has nothing to do with lightening bolts, a parting of the seas or some other spectacular physical event. For me experiencin God is something that happens deep inside, not in my mind but somwhere else inside. It is very quiet, very calming, and very personal. Those moments come at differing levels of 'intensity' from a calm assurance to a much stronger heart/mind experience that grabs my total attention.
There is a scripture verse that reads, "Be still and know that I am God." That is what I experience at different moments in my life and at different levels of intensity. These quiet, deep, and powerful experiences serve as a anchor that my whole life now clings to.
I think that is available to anyone, if they are able to put aside their own feelings, desires, and the worries of this life and just plain listen, not with your ears, but with your heart/mind.

First of all, to tbrucia, of course you believe in invisible things like your mind and love. I am religious because I believe it helps me live in harmony with the forces of good. I'm not perfect, no human being is but I believe that the purpose of my life is to strive to live as a caring, compassionate being and I believe there are many world religions including mine which are of great help in this endeavor.

I am a professional scientist, seminary-trained Christian and a dead man. I was just diagnosed with an advanced brain tumor. As a Christian, I know that Jesus suffered by taking on the sins of humanity so that we as individuals could be redeemed from our failed selves. He tells his followers that they will also suffer, for it is the only way that God can show how He loves mankind. I am not saying that Jesus gave me this tumor, it is part of the natural life; but He will use it. He did not give me this tumor to punish me for my sins, but he wants to use my suffering in some way to bring a skeptic or agnostic to Him.

Lear understands the Sermon on the Mount. It can be summarized simply - Jesus wants His followers to hold themselves to God's righteous standard and to be gracious to everyone else. Most of us Christians want to hold everyone else to God's standard and say we are under God's grace. This is the biggest Christian hypocrisy.

It's very popular today to say, "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual". But if you know the definition of the word "religion" you know this is not possible.
The word religion comes from the Latin root meaning "to connect". It seems to me that Mr. Lear is very well connected to God. Maybe I'm wrong but I think those that condemn anyone for seeking the truth will be sorry in the very near future.
It is true if you look at churches today they reek of materialism, the boast of their power. The Catholic church is the largest financial institution in the world and it takes from the poor daily. During the second WW the Pope made a deal with Hitler that if he would not sack the vatican they would not condemn his actions. That's what I'm talking about!
Time is an arbitrary limit imposed by our ignorance upon the duration of Deity. Knowledge is like the pollen of the flower, from it the bee makes it's honey and the spider it's poison.
The difference between knowledge and belief is perception.
From these postings you can see how different our perceptions of the same universe are, it seems that organized religion has driven us apart instead of together.
God is a circle whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere.

The message of John, Paul, Ringo and George, rings just as true as that of John, Paul, Luke and Mark.
All you need is love.

dat dada dada

Love is all you need

As far as the sentiments expressed in that last sentence, about the yearning for a "Church For People Like Us", Lear's ideas are pretty much in line with what people might hear at a Quaker meeting.

OH NORMAN PLEASE ITS HARD FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND THAT A SMART MAN LIKE YOU BELIEVES IS THIS SCAM, RELIGION IS A TOTAL FRAUD, IT POISONS ALL THAT TOUCH IT!! NOW I WILL HAVE PROBLEMS WATCHING THE RERUNS OF "ALL IN THE FAMILY" LOL

After leading my entire life as a secularist I recently have come to Jesus.

Accepting Jesus into my life has changed everything- the way I feel, think and see the world around me.

Before, I could never understand how people could devote themselves to a man that lived two thousand years ago.

Now, reading his words, I don't know how I ever made it this far without him.

Before, I couldn't see him anywhere. Now he is everywhere. I have been the recipient of the greatest love ever imaginable. I wish it for all.

Thanks Mr. Lear for a thought provoking article.

Years ago I learned a great truth from an old minister. "At times he said I must get with God, just Him and me. I put everything and everyone even family and church aside and be just with him". After years of searching I find that Religion is corruptable and corrupted,Spirituality is truth. What denomination will Jesus call his own upon His return? Catholic,Lutheran,Penticostal or any one of the many like waring factions? I think not. Will he be swinging and bashing us with his bible? I think not. I trust my soul to spirituality not churchie religion.

Spidermean2...you are right on the money!

The story written highlighted Edith Bunker as a perfect model; not true... in the episode where she is having problems with menopause, she lashes out at Archie.
Self control is a problem overlooked in this country. Our nation has a glut of prisons full of men and women that turned on their fellow man...they removed prayer and the golden rule from our schools...and replaced it with lies.

norman i believe if the jewish faith believed that jesus was the son of god, and believed in the new testimont the violence in the middle, east would be less troublesome.For i believe that the only way to recieve the holy spirit is through jesus christ, thats something your faith does not preach.

Lear's words struck a chord with me because he writes with humility about God and faith, which are realities that none of us can fully grasp. Also, despite his doubts, Lear has not lost his sense of wonder and delight at the created world, and he understands how fleeting our lives are in the scheme of things. That perspective shows true wisdom on his part. I was astonished to learn that Lear specifically wanted the character of Edith Bunker to reflect what Jesus might do in a similar situation. That speaks volumes about the unique and enduring impact of Jesus' teachings and life. I would love to sit down with Mr. Lear and show him from Romans 1 that his appreciation of nature and desire to know God come from God Himself. God's very existence and His power are evident in creation, and are made known to us for the purpose of pointing our hearts to God. He alone has the power to save us from the bondage and futility of serving ourselves and doing whatever is right in our own eyes. God intends for us to live joyful, creative and meaningful lives under the benevolent care of our loving Creator. He has made this possible through the life and sacrificial death of His Son. All that is required of us is faith, which is itself a gracious gift from God. And all who ask for this gift will receive it.

Christ himself used the metaphor of the living water, you know--John 4. There is a thousand-mile river, with the same living water since Adam. The Catholic Church has never changed Christ's teachings, never added, subtracted, or changed any of them; separated sects have, but not the Church. And she is, as Christ himself promised her to be, to all nations until the end of time. What makes me religious? The fact that Christianity--authentic Christianity as maintained intact by the one Church that he founded--is true. That's the Church for people like us. For all people.

Augustine, a Berber from North Africa, observed 1700 years ago that our hearts are restless until they find rest in God.

Nothing much has changed in human nature since then. We might react negatively to institutions where people gather to better understand God - after all they are made up of humans with human vested interests - but our restless seeking hearts remain.

While the narrative of science shrilly insists we are no more than organic machines, with no real significance to our existance, no 'ghost' in the machine - the human soul quietly demurs. The rise in the belief in God reflects the popular response to this scientific lecturing.

We vote with our soul. We are not a number, we are not a 'machine', we sense we are something greater with the ability to relate to something greater still.

Religious institutions are not God. They can especially be toxic when humans manipulate them to gain power or control over others. However, they are also often resevoirs of culmulative wisdom about God. There are deep wells there.

The true home of the human heart is in relationship to God, and historically we have found joy in doing it in community. Communities become institutions, old and brittle wineskins - we need new wineskins to allow us fresh communal worship of God relevant to today's restless hearts.

...nonsense or incredibly boring. These responses reflect more on the shallowness and self degradation of the authors of the letters in response ...

Boy have you missed the boat. tbrucia did not say that he/she found Lear boring, the statement was "As for me, I find it incredibly boring.... ", referring to belonging to a church or a religion.

This is incredibly shallow of you, to belittle someone else's valid opinion of the subject since it disagrees with yours.

How often do you see those you disagree with you to be shallow ... I suppose you would never ask yourself that would you.

Oh boy, here we go...

There will be those who will bash Lear violently for speaking about a god, a higher power of some sort, but he's not insisting that there is one that fills the same definition for everyone. He's saying that maybe that "higher power" can be something as basic as a general connection with whatever makes people glad to be alive, to care about someone else's joy in this world, and the wondrousness of all existence.

There will be those who will rant (one already has) about how Lear's against religion by suggesting that every single cleric is wrong. For the love of your own God, read it again; he's not against spiritual growth at all, and he's not against religion as a whole. He's genuinely happy for those who find meaning in traditional religious teachings (provided they become better people), but some religious leaders take an elitist POV and shut down any discussion before it can begin.

Luckily, there will also be those who see that he's found some things that work for him, that he's enjoying the journey as he seeks and discovers more, and no one should tie themselves down if they feel a need to find their own answers.

He's paying us a compliment, people. He's asking, "what works for you?"

Be nice about it.

Norman Lear is the founder of People for the American Way. A leftist organization that supports many types of leftist stupidity. Things that are against the word of God, which is the Bible.

I other words, it is a contributor to the CUTE BUT DESTRUCTIVE leftist ideals.

Cute But Destructive

This is the model liberal democrat idiots follow. Policies that are cute in the beginning but self-destructive in the long run.

As little kids, gays are effeminate which many people find cute. As they grow into adults they become filthy coz they want sex with their kind.

Gays in the military seems cute now but filthy in the long run when gays will outnumber straights in the shower rooms and generals having male boyfriends.

Socialist policies are cute now but filthy when the budget deficit gets bloated in the long run.

The list goes on and this kind of CUTE BUT DESTRUCTIVE policy is inherent in liberal democrat idiots.

In fact the two wars we have now and the economic turmoil we're in are policies which can be traced far back to Bill Clinton's policies. The worst is still coming courtesy of Bill Clinton's CUTE BUT DESTRUCTIVE liberal democrat policies.

All their stupidity will culminate to an ultimate destruction of their cities.

There are republicans too who are idiots but nothing can match the stupidity of liberal dems. Even Rahm Emanuel called them RETARDED.

This is a cute article. Very well written. But the river you're talking about is polluted. The river has killed all the plants in its way.

Like any liberal thought not anchored on the true word of God, they always start as CUTE BUT DESTRUCTIVE in the end.

"Likewise, their men have given up natural sexual relations with women and burn with lust for each other. Men commit indecent acts with men, so they experience among themselves the PUNISHMENT they deserve for their perversion." (Romans 1:27)

The personal experience of the discovery of the God in our lives needs affirmation, not degradation. How disappointing that some of the first responses noted from readers to the personal experience from an elder with the life experience of Mr.Lear should be called kumbaya nonsense or incredibly boring. These responses reflect more on the shallowness and self degradation of the authors of the letters in response to Mr.Lear's many years experiencing his "River of Reverence" that he eloquently shares with us. Thank you and God Bless you Norman Lear. I have seldom heard a rabbi, minister, or priest ( i don't know any mullahs) express his spiritual search from the pulpit with more clarity than you have in the above "ON FAITH" column.

For years, I have felt that no one believes the Bible. What we really believe is our own personal interpretation of the Bible. I may have a seminary degree - or not. I may have a title - or not. I may have years of experience in some sort of pastoral/ministerial/theological work - or not. But, in the end, I am still seeking and in the process of developing (or allowing it to be developed) my own relationship with whomever I interpret God to be. If I may help another, even better. Thanks, Norman.

This is typical kumbaya nonsense. In Norman Lear's world, everybody gets their own Lone Ranger kind of religion because, "the rabbis, the priests, the ministers, mullahs and the reverends -- the professionals -- have a corner on the subject." By this he means that people who dedicate their lives to serving God and humanity are somehow incapable of delivering the spiritual goods as defined by Hollywood and West Hampton.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm partial to hearing what my minister has to tell me on the subject of virtue, morality and what is sacred vis a vis the nonsense Norman Lear wants to impart to the world in the guise of "religion."

There was a time when people were arrested for impersonating cops and military personnel. Maybe we should do the same for people like Lear who impersonate religious authority.

If everyone has their own silly, self-celebratory religion as espoused by the likes of Lear, it will make political liberalism look positively coherent by comparison. Maybe that is the point of this editorial.

When one considers the presence of vast universe with galaxies just being a point on its map, one cannot help but realize the fragility of a piece of rock, Earth, as we call it.

One cannot help but realize that entire life of earth is less than a picosecond in the life of universe.

Within such vast incalculable turmoil, immense crushing forces of creation and destruction in our universe, a tiny life takes form, seeks a foothold and thrives - the greatest triumph of God's will.

And that's what makes me religious.

I was brought up on a native reserve and like them I think God is in the water and the trees and in life all around us. What makes me feel spiritual is to organize life so I have time to think how to connect myself to this higher power.

When I hear folks talk about faith, a higher power, 'spiritual' feelings, God, angels, and so on, I find myself totally 'at sea'. I don't feel any connection with invisible stuff.... so what about us? I guess I don't need or want to belong to any church because it all seems a pointless waste of time. I guess if it rings your bell, religion does something for you. As for me, I find it incredibly boring....