Let Women Lead and Let Church be Church

AARON O'KELLEY

I was wondering do you believe that ALL WILL BE IN GOD'S KINGDOM?

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Thank you, Dr. Wright, for this response. I don't happen to agree with you theologically on the question of women in roles of pastoral leadership (due primarily to 1 Timothy 2), but I am grateful that you have not branded me a hypocrite. The church is not the same as any other human institution, and that is important to recognize no matter where one comes down on this issue.

"Give us an example then. There might "well be" pigs that can fly, too, but since I've never seen one, I don't think that possibility is a valid point in an argument."

MM - Here are some examples in the church I attend: Mentoring a boy on a one to one basis for our confirmation (church membership) program.

One to one peer support for a man through our laity peer support program.

These first two examples are due to ethical, boundary, perception issues for the protection of the person receiving care and the person offering care.

Sometimes the committee which is responsible for nominating church members to serve on various committees and offices in the church intentionally choose a man or a woman on the basis of having a more inclusive representation of men and women as officers.

My church is very open to women serving in ministry accross the board as a general rule but as is the case with men (see examples above) there are times when gender factors into the decision.

"Give us an example then."

Perhaps, all things being equal, in a class given by a church on fatherhood for men in the parish. Conversely, one might not expect to see a man leading a class on motherhood.

Cheers,
Dave

"There might well be perfectly coherent guidelines as to why a woman might lead in one area and not in another."

Give us an example then. There might "well be" pigs that can fly, too, but since I've never seen one, I don't think that possibility is a valid point in an argument.

Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House of Representatives and mother of six children, is only two heart beats away from being President of the USA so obviously JM's choice of VP, i.e. Sarah Palin, is not a shocking development.

With respect to the few women in leadership roles in the Christian religions, thank "Saint" Paul, the Prude for this.

e.g. "He (Paul) feared the turn-on of women's voices as much as the sight of their hair and skin..... At one point he even suggests that the sight of female hair might distract any "pretty wingie talking fictional thingies" in church attendance (1 Cor. 11:10).

Simply add Paul's thinking about women to the list of flaws in the foundations of Christianity.

Of course the koran's allowed mistreatments of women are 24/7 news' items. And it explains the problem of women being imams/clerics in Islam.

A few excerpts from Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book about the problem as additional evidence:

p. 47 paperback issue:

"Some of the Saudi women in our neighborhood were regularly beaten by their husbands. You could hear them at night. Their screams resounded across the courtyards. "No! Please! By Allah!"

p.68:

"The Pakistanis were Muslims but they too had castes. The Untouchable girls, both Indian and Pakistani were darker skin. The others would not play with them because they were untouchable. We thought that was funny because of course they were touchable: we touched them see? but also horrifying to think of yourself as untouchable, despicable to the human race."

p. 347

"The kind on thinking I saw in Saudi Arabia and among the Brotherhood of Kenya and Somalia, is incompatible with human rights and liberal values. It preserves the feudal mind-set based on tribal concepts of honor and shame. It rests on self-deception, hyprocricy, and double standards. It relies on the technologial advances of the West while pretending to ignore their origin in Western thinking. This mind-set makes the transition to modernity very painful for all who practice Islam".

p.309

"Between October 2004 and May 2005, eleven Muslim girls were killed by their families in just two regions (there are 20 regions in Holland). After that, people stopped telling me I was exaggerating."