Big Question, Bigger Assumptions

"So the only 'evidence' that Wright has for Abraham is a book which claimes that Abraham was 175 years old when he died?

And this is why Wright thinks God allows a tsunami to kill 250,000 people in a day?"

No more answers Steven until you answer my question. You'll have to figure out these monumental questions for yourself.

Good..."luck" I guess.

Carr

"So there is no evidence for Abraham other than a book which Wright says contains errors.

And is contradictory, as Hebrews has the world discarded and replaced, just as you discard old clothes and replace them with new ones.

Christians like to say there are no contradictions in the Bible, and when atheists says that Book X says this, they simply claim that other books say the opposite."

A Left Behind fan.

So the only 'evidence' that Wright has for Abraham is a book which claimes that Abraham was 175 years old when he died?

And this is why Wright thinks God allows a tsunami to kill 250,000 people in a day?

So there is no evidence for Abraham other than a book which Wright says contains errors.

And is contradictory, as Hebrews has the world discarded and replaced, just as you discard old clothes and replace them with new ones.

Christians like to say there are no contradictions in the Bible, and when atheists says that Book X says this, they simply claim that other books say the opposite.

Steven States:

"So Wright has no evidence that Abraham existed, just as he has no evidence that creation will be 'renewed'."

See a whole host of scripture which constantly picks up on the theme of God's desire to renew the earth...

Isaiah chapters 2, 11 (check out the Peaceable Kingdom painting by a 19th century american artist), Isaiah 55 (especially verses 12,13) and Paul's use of the phrase new creation. All of this is just a drop in the bucket. The bible is soaked in this anticipation that God will renew this earth. Thank God for that!

"So Wright has no evidence that Abraham existed, just as he has no evidence that creation will be 'renewed'.

According to Hebrews 1, the best metaphor for what will happen to the world is that it is like what happens when you roll up clothes, throw them away and get new clothes.

But I'm sure Wright simply denies what that the Bible teaches that the present world will be discarded like old clothes, and replaced with new clothes.

He claims the 'old clothes' will be patched up."

Actually, Steven, you can go to your local library and pick up a copy of the Hebrew scriptures and read about Abraham. I promise you that Abraham is referenced in this document in great detail. Unfortunately CNN came a long time after 1900 B.C. What was up with people back then? Oh yeah, their headline news was through the telling of stories. Wow, knowing how people did things a long time ago can really help us in the 21st century.

Regarding Hebrews 1, you have a lot more convincing to do if you want to argue that the NT writers were dualists and this earth will end. That is so not Jewish thinking from Genesis to Revelation.

"You will roll them up like a cloak, and they will be changed like clothing." - Hebrews 1:12

The good news of Jesus Christ is that there will come a day when through a special act of God's trasforming work, the evil and injustice so present in our world will be destroyed and changed into an earth filled with God's peace and justice, just like changing clothing. Work with these metaphors Steven, in light of the major themes of the Bible and particularly the 1st century Jewish worldview.

Also, check out the Hebrew scripture prophets (particularly Isaiah and Ezekiel) the Lord's Prayer in the synoptics, the descent of heaven upon earth at the end of the Book of Revelation, and (actually the whole bible!) for the Jewish wholistic anticipation of God's promise to renew the face of the earth.

But I'm sure you'll want to keep going down these tired old paths that the bible isn't reliable and the world is going to end some day. {I didn't take you for a Kirk Cameron/Left Behind series fan.)

"World without end. Amen." - The Apostles' Creed

So Wright has no evidence that Abraham existed, just as he has no evidence that creation will be 'renewed'.

According to Hebrews 1, the best metaphor for what will happen to the world is that it is like what happens when you roll up clothes, throw them away and get new clothes.

But I'm sure Wright simply denies what that the Bible teaches that the present world will be discarded like old clothes, and replaced with new clothes.

He claims the 'old clothes' will be patched up.

Steven:

"I think Chesterton is claiming that there are errors in the Gospels, and simply changed what other people had written when writing their Gospels.

Does Wright have any evidence that Abraham existed?"

As to your 1st comment, you first need to answer the question I posed back to you Steven. Here it is again - 'does your use of the word 'error' imply that the authority of scripture is nullified by apparent scriptural discrepencies?'"

As to your 2nd question, yes, the OT.

I think Chesterton is claiming that there are errors in the Gospels, and simply changed what other people had written when writing their Gospels.

Does Wright have any evidence that Abraham existed?

Steven Carr:

"Wright claims that the Gospel writers simply changed the story about Peter.

It wasn't just an error.

It was deliberate manipulation of the story.

The Gospel writers rewrote history.

If I claimed Bush was in the Twin Towers at 9/11, would that be an error, or would I be deliberately rewriting history?"

First of all Steven, nobody writes history from a totally objective viewpoint - that's history 101. Hint: The canonical Gospel writers have a bias...they want you to know that Jesus is the true King of all creation. They use metaphor, symbolism, irony, OT readings, etc. based on historical events surrounding Jesus of Nazareth and specifically Jesus' bodily resurrection.

Secondly, if you started telling people about your Bush 9/11 example, your closest friends and family members would most likely refute you. Which is one of the reasons why the Gospel writers have credibility. In a society (1st century Palestine) which depended on story telling as the media of the day, if people got the story wrong, or if it detoured too far off the main track, people would have corrected it. Footnote: I notice that many posters on message boards like this are very patronizing toward people living in the 1st century as if they were stupid and gullible people. They actually believed that when people die, they stayed dead! Imagine that! Even the Jesus Seminar needed an expert to tell them that dead people stay dead. Who is gullible here?

Thirdly, the Gospels tell a story of Jesus being the fulfillment of the covenant tht God had made with Abraham in the OT - the covenant that God wanted Israel to be a blessing and a light to the nations. The blessing is this - that God has launched his new creation through the life, death, resurrection, and ascension (and yes, Concerned, I know how you feel about the "ascension") which is an anticipation of the time when God will finally renew all of creation and this earth will be made new where there will be no more wars, tears, pain, or even death. (and yes, Steven, I know that you are a dualist based on your other posts.)

Please, if you've rejected Christianity because you can't harmonize the Gospels (which is not even the way to read the Gospels since they each offer their own unique retelling of the good news of Jesus Christ) find a much better reason - one that isn't clouded by our post-enlightenment worldview or by people not taking seriously 1st century Roman history or by folks reacting negatively toward the Christian faith because they have been unfairly hurt by people who call themselves, "Christian."

Concerned:

CK,

"And how do you know this Jesus of yours? Apparently only from the NT which has many discrepancies and significant lack of attestations and includes the fictional visitations of angels aka "pwtfft"s and their ugly counterparts so you are talking from a very "flawed" deck. e.g. The Luke 13:1-5 passage appears only once in the NT and never appears in any of the associated documentations shown at http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/.

Apparently this does not bother you but it sure has received the attention of many NT exegetes who have described your Jesus in all kinds of ways after reviewing the documentation regarding of said Jesus:"

Regarding Luke 13 - Bother me? I just gave you a plausible response that is in line with 1st century Roman history. Apparently this does not bother you.

Wright claims that the Gospel writers simply changed the story about Peter.

It wasn't just an error.

It was deliberate manipulation of the story.

The Gospel writers rewrote history.

If I claimed Bush was in the Twin Towers at 9/11, would that be an error, or would I be deliberately rewriting history?

CK,

And how do you know this Jesus of yours? Apparently only from the NT which has many discrepancies and significant lack of attestations and includes the fictional visitations of angels aka "pwtfft"s and their ugly counterparts so you are talking from a very "flawed" deck. e.g. The Luke 13:1-5 passage appears only once in the NT and never appears in any of the associated documentations shown at http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/.

Apparently this does not bother you but it sure has received the attention of many NT exegetes who have described your Jesus in all kinds of ways after reviewing the documentation regarding of said Jesus:

:Jesus the Myth: Heavenly Christ
Earl Doherty
Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy

Jesus the Myth: Man of the Indefinite Past
Alvar Ellegård
G. A. Wells

Jesus the Hellenistic Hero
Gregory Riley

Jesus the Revolutionary
Robert Eisenman

Jesus the Wisdom Sage
John Dominic Crossan
Robert Funk
Burton Mack
Stephen J. Patterson

Jesus the Man of the Spirit
Marcus Borg
Stevan Davies
Geza Vermes

Jesus the Prophet of Social Change
Richard Horsley
Hyam Maccoby
Gerd Theissen

Jesus the Apocalyptic Prophet
Bart Ehrman
Paula Fredriksen
Gerd Lüdemann
John P. Meier
E. P. Sanders

Jesus the Savior
Luke Timothy Johnson
Robert H. Stein
N. T. Wright

TJ, you said,

"Nick, Do you suppose that poor Ba'al is suffering the noetic effects of sin? Before you answer, consider the following:

1. Ba'al is not suffering the noetic effects of sin.
2. Statement 1. is true whether you believe it or not.
3. Your disbelief simply confirms it's truth.

Why is this so? Because I just wrote it down and claim it to be true.

Please, no more Van Til idiocy."

point 1, 2, and 3 was far from my mind and do nothing in regards to what to mentioned to ba'al. As a matter of fact, the noetic effects of sin only came to your thinking, not mine

And as far as Van Til idiocy goes...Yes, I'd say he goes a bit far, but what I paraphrased from him was very relevant despite the other things you might have a point in.

Ba'al said the christian response to evil is like jello. As I implied earlier, even if that is the case, the atheist answer cant even be that, its pure nothingness. If you're gonna debunk me, how about doing it on the point I made and not some van til tangent that had nothing to do with what I used from him.

please, no more going off on rabbit trails

Norrie states:

"SO WHY DIDN'T GOD SIMPLY REWORK THE CREATION OR ERASE IT AND START OVER?

WHY THE COSMIC HORROR SHOW WHICH DIDN'T SUCCEED IN FIXING ANYTHING?

DUH?!"

That's a good question, Norrie. As a Christian, I think about that a lot and appreciate how you just go ahead and put it out there.

It reminds me of someone in my church who when he hears about a child being abused isn't afraid to tell me and others that he just can't understand why a loving God would allow something like this.

While I let him know that I share his same outrage and dissapointment at God, my biggest anger is with the person or people that did such a horrendous thing. We were created in the image of God and called to be faithful to God which should translate into peaceful relations, respect, care for children and the elderly, ecology, and on and on. Obviously, humanity doesn't have a good track record and to some degree, we all share in the shame of not fully living in ways that we should. But thanks be to God that according to the Christian faith, we (humanity in general) are not left to our own devices. Ultimately God will rescue the whole of creation and there will be no more suffering, tears, pain, and death (the final enemy) will be defeated as well. And the good news according to the Christian faith is that the resurrection of Jesus is the foretaste of that anticipated future of new creation.

Or to put it another way, what hope is there without the promise of new creation and if we would be left to our own devices?

Please understand me, Norrie. I thoroughly respect your question and comments. Thanks for sharing.

"WHY I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN"

or

"DID GOD NOT ATTEND FIRST GRADE OR AT LEAST KINDERGARTEN?"

"The Bible doesn't pose, or answer, the question that way. It tells a long, complex narrative about a plan launched by the creator God to heal creation.

"This plan, begun with the call of Abraham, reaches its climax in Jesus and his horrific death, and works out from there, not to the rescue of souls from a doomed world, but to the healing and renewal of the whole creation."

SO WHY DIDN'T GOD SIMPLY REWORK THE CREATION OR ERASE IT AND START OVER?

WHY THE COSMIC HORROR SHOW WHICH DIDN'T SUCCEED IN FIXING ANYTHING?

DUH?!

Steve,
Concerned States:

"It is not just the discrepancies but also the lack of attestations.

For example, previously you cited: "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

Steven has at his fingertips an attestation that is very plausbible. You ask, did Jesus of WWJD fame really say this? In the historical context of that time period, Jesus was most likely referring to Pilate's slaughtering of Jewish pilgrims going to offer sacrifices at the Temple. Jesus' point is to not take up the sword against the Romans since that would only lead to certain bloodshed and death.

So yes, I can see the Jesus of WWJD fame saying this. Sounds like the Jesus I know.

Steve,

It is not just the discrepancies but also the lack of attestations.

For example, previously you cited: "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

But did Jesus of WWJD fame really say this??????

Not according to Professor JD Crossan, an On Faith panelist. The saying is only found in Luke (13:1-5)
Stratum: III (80-120 CE)
Attestation: Single
Historicity: negative,
and was therefore probably a later addition to embellish the biography of Jesus. http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/453_Repent_or_Perish

Professor Borg another On Faith panelist cites the following in his book, Conflict, Holiness and Politics in the Teachings of Jesus, 205-207,
"Luke 13:1-5 fits into prophecy of Jesus about war and the destruction of Jerusalem."

But then we all know that "prophecies" by any "prophet"/fortune teller are by common sense a violation of the innate human gifts of free will and future.

And have you read anything other than the Bible? e.g. all the associated documents from the first to third CE?

If not, have at it at at http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

Steven Carr states:

"At last we are getting somewhere.

NT Wright claims the following Gospel passages all contain errors - Matthew 26:69-75; Mark 14:66-72; Luke 22:54-62; & John 18:25-27

So the Gospel writers simply made things up about Peter.

What else did they make up?

NT Wright also claims we can never be in a position to say what God ought to do?

So how can we ask ourselves 'What would Jesus do?'"

Dear Steven,

I know that you're just yanking my chain here but for the benefit of the well intentioned posters on the board, here's the deal:

1) There are some discrepencies on various details of some of the events of Jesus' life that are recorded in the Gospels.

2) For some folks (evidently you are one of them) this is proof that the Gospel accounts totally collapse under the weight of scrutiny since different biblical writers offer a variety of perspectives on the same event. Why you arrive at that conclusion, I'm not sure, but I think it has something to do with a bone that you want to pick with fundamentalists who hold to biblical inerrancy, a position that Dr. Wright does not hold so I'm not sure why you've been barking up this tree for this entire thread. P

3) For some folks, (evidently you are one of them) you assume that all Christians where "WWJD" bracelets. This is not true, Steven, but you knew that didn't you?

4) Words like "error" and phrases like "making things up" make it next to impossible to have a grown-up talk about the bible as literature. When you tell someone a story, doesn't it stink when somebody interrupts you to correct you over a silly detail while at the same time missing the whole point of the story?

5) I actually agree with you on one point, though. I was taken aback by Dr. Wright's comment that we are not in a position to tell God what God ought to do.

Steven Carr states:

CARR
"Did God not plan the Flood when he was working out how to get rid of evil?

Plan 1. Kill everybody in the world except 8.

Plan 2. Call Abraham and have him found a chosen people

Plan 3. Send Jesus to preach to the world.

God seems to be a serial bungler. None of his plans ever work!"

Actually if you read the scriptures, you will discover that humanity is the serial bungler.

Steven Carr States:

"At last we are getting somewhere.

NT Wright claims the following Gospel passages all contain errors - Matthew 26:69-75; Mark 14:66-72; Luke 22:54-62; & John 18:25-27

So the Gospel writers simply made things up about Peter."

Your argument contains errors.

"God seems to be a serial bungler. None of his plans ever work!"

The arrogance astounds.

"God seems to be a serial bungler. None of his plans ever work!"

The arrogance astounds.

"God seems to be a serial bungler. None of his plans ever work!"

The arrogance astounds.

'It tells a long, complex narrative about a plan launched by the creator God to heal creation. This plan, begun with the call of Abraham,...'

CARR
Did God not plan the Flood when he was working out how to get rid of evil?

Plan 1. Kill everybody in the world except 8.

Plan 2. Call Abraham and have him found a chosen people

Plan 3. Send Jesus to preach to the world.

God seems to be a serial bungler. None of his plans ever work!

Is Plantinga the guy who says God cannot make beings with free will who never commit evil, and that the angels in Heaven are beings with free will that never commit evil?

At last we are getting somewhere.

NT Wright claims the following Gospel passages all contain errors - Matthew 26:69-75; Mark 14:66-72; Luke 22:54-62; & John 18:25-27

So the Gospel writers simply made things up about Peter.

What else did they make up?

NT Wright also claims we can never be in a position to say what God ought to do?

So how can we ask ourselves 'What would Jesus do?'

I would recommend for reading, apropos of the discussion at hand on the problem of evil, -God, Freedom and Evil-, the relevant chapters of -The Nature of Necessity-, and the relevant chapters of -Warranted Christian Belief-, all by Alvin Plangtinga.

Cheers,
Dave

I would recommend for reading, apropos of the discussion at hand on the problem of evil, -God, Freedom and Evil-, the relevant chapters of -The Nature of Necessity-, and the relevant chapters of -Warranted Christian Belief-, all by Alvin Plangtinga.

Cheers,
Dave

Steven Carr (I'm assuming) states:

"So which book, chapter and verse is in error?
This is like pulling teeth...."

See the following Gospel references of Peter denying Jesus for the context of the problem of harmonizing the details as mentioned by Dr. Wright in the interview quote. The references are Matthew 26:69-75; Mark 14:66-72; Luke 22:54-62; & John 18:25-27

Perhaps you didn't read all of my previous post. Here's my question again:

"My question back to you is, 'does your use of the word 'error' imply that the authority of scripture is nullified by apparent scriptural discrepencies?'"

So which book, chapter and verse is in error?

This is like pulling teeth....

Here's one example from Bishop Wright, Steven. My question back to you is, "does your use of the word 'error' imply that the authority of scripture is nullified by apparent scriptural discrepencies?" To further explore that question, I refer you again to "The Last Word: Scripture and the Authority of God - Getting Beyond the Bible Wars," N.T. Wright, 2005, HarperCollins. This book cuts through the middle of the Fundamentalist/Jesus Seminar polarization.

NT Wright states in an interview:
http://clubs.calvin.edu/chimes/2003-02-14/essay-interview1.html

"Yes, of course there are differences among the gospels. My favorite one is that if you try to figure out how many times the cock (or the rooster, as you call it in America) crowed when Peter was busy betraying Jesus, it’s very, very difficult to do. The only way you can actually harmonize all the accounts is by having the rooster crow I think it’s nine times in order to fit in the different ways the gospels tell the story."

For those interested, copies of original gospels, epistles, pseudo versions and related documents and a best-guess estimate as to their origins and date of publication can be found on line at http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

Contemporary NT exegetes to include Bishop Wright have analyzed these documents in detail and from these analyses over 100 books have been published with signficantly different conclusions. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

OK, Mr. Chesterton, answer the question.

Where does the Bishop of Durham say that a statement in the Bible is in error?

Which book, chapter and verse contains an error, according to NT Wright?

Steven -

"Because God does not intervene."

Actually, the historical Christian view puts the relationship of God and creation much differently. Instead of using the word, "intervene," which implies that God periodically enters into the affairs of creation, I think a more biblical approach is to hold the doctrine of God being "transcendent from creation" and the doctrine of God being "mysteriously present within creation" in tension.

Steven Carr asks:

"Could you tell me where the Bishop of Durham has ever claimed that any statement in the Bible in in error?"

Read his book, "The Last Word: Scripture and the Authority of God - Getting Beyond the Bible Wars," 2005, HarperCollins.

He argues that biblical inerrancy is a product of an enlightenment worldview that has been erroneously imposed upon biblical literature.

Should God intervene every time an author of the Bible was about to make a mistake?

No.

So the Bible is full of mistakes.

Because God does not intervene.

Should God intervene when people do wrong?

For example, if a couple sell their property and do not give all the proceeds to the church , should God strike them dead on the spot?

Could you tell me where the Bishop of Durham has ever claimed that any statement in the Bible in in error?

Could you tell me where the Bishop of Durham has ever claimed that any statement in the Bible in in error?

"I dared, for the first and last time in my life, to express a theological conclusion: 'But how can a necessary being exist totally polluted with the possible? What difference is there, then, between God and primigenial chaos? Isn't affirming God's absolute omnipotence and His absolute freedom with regard to His own choices tantamount to demonstrating that God does not exist?'"

-Adso, in _The Name of the Rose_

Bishop Tom,

Your first point -- that if those who stick so strongly to this question should also prefer that God intervene every time they do wrong -- is piercing. I don't seem to recall it being made in your 'Evil...' book, nor anywhere else on the topic, for that matter!

Once again, thank you for your prayerful and fresh perspective.

Nick, Do you suppose that poor Ba'al is suffering the noetic effects of sin? Before you answer, consider the following:

1. Ba'al is not suffering the noetic effects of sin.
2. Statement 1. is true whether you believe it or not.
3. Your disbelief simply confirms it's truth.

Why is this so? Because I just wrote it down and claim it to be true.

Please, no more Van Til idiocy.

Joshua!!! You have been listening and hearing haven't you. He is well pleased with you for your boldness to speak a truth that the church has not bothered with. America has accomplished much and will continue too, as his children move and speak truth with only love in their hearts. T
his year will end with many coming to know the true Lord and King....those who doubt, remember what the Lord has spoken through Joushua, for it shall surely will come to pass.

PS Joshua, isn't it amazing how quickly this is happening, my best to you brother, keep up the good Word!!!!

Steven Carr states:

"Let us get evil into perspective.

God might allow a tsunami to kill 250,000 of his beloved creatures in one day, but he would never allow any writer of the Bible to make an error.

There are evil things God will allow, and horrendous evils like errors in the Bible are not one of them.

When it comes to truly important matters, like the accuracy of recording the age of King Josiah, then God does not pass by on the other side, as he did for the Holocaust."

A little context would be helpful to the above statement: First of all, this takes a jab at biblical inerrancy proponents which I agree is a misguided effort in establishing biblical authority.

Secondly, and more important, Dr. Wright is not a proponent of biblical inerrancy so why the jab in the first place?

Ba'al:
Watching theists deal with the theodicy problem is always amusing. This is the standard response and it is about as satisfying as jello.

Well, it may be tough, but I always find the atheistic response to evil even more jello like. Especially because of the fact that to even speak on evil you have to live off theistic capital. As Van till noted, you're just sitting on God's lap to try and slap him.

Carr
In your conversations with G-d, does He often lie to you?

CAER
Ought God to tell the truth?

THE BISHOP OF DURHAM
'We are never, repeat never, in a position where we can size up God and decide what such a being ought really to do.'

CARR
Well, that's me smacked downn.

My amateur atheist attempts at theology brutally refuted by Christian scholars.

Never again will I repeat the childish statement 'God ought to tell the truth'.

Let us get evil into perspective.

God might allow a tsunami to kill 250,000 of his beloved creatures in one day, but he would never allow any writer of the Bible to make an error.

There are evil things God will allow, and horrendous evils like errors in the Bible are not one of them.

When it comes to truly important matters, like the accuracy of recording the age of King Josiah, then God does not pass by on the other side, as he did for the Holocaust.

I have read N T Wright's Evil and the Justice of God. I highly recommend it.

Some of the answers to this question are found in a certain sectarian joke. I apologize to the non-Christians, non-Calvinists and non-Catholics who might not get it.
When faced with an unanswerable question, the standard Catholic response should be "It's a mystery." The orthodox Presbyterian, on the other hand, will say "It's part of the Covenant."
As an Anglican, Wright seems to come down on both sides.

Watching theists deal with the theodicy problem is always amusing. This is the standard response and it is about as satisfying as jello.

Err, Joshua?

WTF?

Here we go, God is ready to be involved and inform His people.

America, the very heart of America is about to go through a purging. The mind of America is about to be renewed. The church of America is about to be strengthened. The joy of America is about to be revealed to the heavenly realms! For God says today America, I will bring you the renewing of your mind. And allow you to see what the enemy is trying to do. For he is trying to take you away from the plans of My Spirit. The enemy is deceiving many in the church and it is a shame for the Lord God to look upon this. Why are they being tempted, like Peter was tempted while he was walking side by side with Christ?

For I tell you today the enemy and his plans are to deceive and blind those so they do not know the clear path, but are sensitive to the Spirit of Christ. But I tell you even now America, you shall have your mind renewed! And the enemy's thoughts that are causing you depression, causing you sickness and pain, shall be brought to the surface. For the Spirit of God will take captive every lie, every deception, and every false belief that the enemy planted in your heart. For the Spirit of God is going to open up your mind and infiltrate your heart and he is going to bring forth from there the wisdom and revelation of God. Not only to the four corners of the church, but into the media outlets, into the hearts of the politicians, into the leaders and governors of your communities and your cities and your states, says the Lord.

For there is the cry of death in the mountainous regions in Afghanistan and the borders of Pakistan, Osama bin Laden is gone and you will hear about it in the news in time for Osama bin Laden's kidneys, and his intestines, have failed him and you will say, his judgment has taken place. For God took him out.

I tell you now watch the borders of Texas, as they try to come in and penetrate your cities and try to attack, but God says there shall be nothing of the sort. I will thwart this plan Myself! And they will be captured before they can take out the ones who are innocent.

Oh New York, New York, here is your day of opportunity. Here is your moment to position yourself with the prophets of God. Did you not know that they can give you a voice into the ears of the leaders and media? For you can be like Elijah and say, today the drought will end. For the waters are coming in the clouds. And I will show you the difference between the god baal, and the Lord Most High. Oh, New York, did you not know that you have many who are prepared to take over your news media? For God is rising up an army for the news media and Hollywood. And He said they will come forth between the next five and twenty years and you will see many signs happen as the leaders in the news media and in Hollywood quit or resign. New hands will be brought into those places as the media begins the quest for lighting the media for Christ.

Have you heard about the children, for God says in the hearts of the children I will place inside of them a spirit of thankfulness to love their fathers and mothers. To obey and give them honor. To be a blessing to their parents for God says, I am jealous of the children of this generation. I want them to be My Gideon's, I want them to be the children of My army. For they have many talents that are going to be used to bless the nations.

God says watch as I strike down one in the Supreme Court! Watch soon as you see this happen and unfold before your eyes and they will say, Bush will have another that he will summon to the Supreme Court.

I tell you now I am preparing a place for Billy Graham so he and his beloved wife and join Me in My courts.

I tell you by the ending of this year you will see many famous people go to their graves. Take this as a sign America as I have seen the dead come to Me. They speak of belief, and many of you will say they are lost because they placed their riches before God. But I tell you many in their final moments will accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and King, and make him their Lord. I tell you the needy will join the Savior, for it is the needy that need Christ.

I tell you now that the Spirit is entering and searching out Iran and its military bases. And God says I am marking each destination that is a threat to My nation Israel. And I tell you now that soon you will see in the skies the military locations taken out. And the king of Iran will tremble and his economy shall fail him. As his nations quakes and I will say again and again, that the nation of Israel is My timetable.

God is saying that there is going to be a tragedy in Texas, no this is not a terrorist thing, but this is a thing between a husband and a wife. A fight that brings out a knife and leads to the death of an innocent man. For I will expose it on the news, and she shall be taken away and I will not allow her face to be seen again. She will be locked up in her cave because of the things that she has done and the matter will be solved in minutes for they shall find her loathing around with her companions. She will be locked away in a dark place and I tell you that this mans death shall have justice, and they will say, voices in her head caused her to do this. And I tell you this is why the Spirit of God bring 100 fold in the month of October a renewing of the mind to the saints and to the churches and to the people of God so that they can decipher the lies of the enemy. So that things like this will not take place in My house, says the Spirit of the Living God.

Geri,

You asked "Who's prayers did God not answer?" in Katrina's wake.

The 1,836 people who lost their lives.

The people of the Bahamas, South Florida, Cuba, Louisiana (especially Greater New Orleans), Mississippi, Alabama, Florida Panhandle, most of eastern North America whose property was destroyed to the "tune of" $84 billion.

"Seek ye first the kingdom within and all these things shall be given unto you." As a child and young adult these words of Jesus had a great impact on me. It has taken me years to develop the awareness that I would need to understand exactly what these words meant.

Few people recognize that the kingdom within is our own psychological and mental constructs backed up with great emotional intensity projected outward onto the world that forms the events, the experiences, and the people whom we group about us throughout our lives. Indeed as we change and grow, old events, experiences, people, and relationships move out of our lives and new ones are being formed even before they are recognized automatically and quite naturally. In fact such events and occurrences are woven so seamlessly throughout our lives that we hardly give them a second thought, never recognizing that each of these events and experiences, the people and the relationships are simply a reflection of ourselves and the contents of our minds (the kingdom within)at any given moment in time. They are the symbols for our individual and masse beliefs, ideas, thoughts, feelings, attitudes and consequently our actions being simply reflected back at us. Until each of us begins to understand such reflections as symbols for what we believe, think, and feel we can not hope to understand ourselves, each other, the world, much less hope to understand the mind of God.

As an example: Hurricane Katrina. I was watching Larry King Live on CNN during the aftermath of this event. He was interviewing at the time prominant religious figures. The question was: Why does God allow such things to happen? Why doesn't He answer peoples prayers? I whipped off an email to Larry King and asked? Who's prayers did God not answer? Did He not answer the prayers of those who had been living in New Orleans in abject poverty for over 300 years? Did He not find for these people a way to get out of such a horrible situation, and those who with great emotional intensity wanted above all else to start new lives somewhere else, did He not give them this opportunity to do so? Did He not answer the leadership of Louisana in their desire to rid themselves and the state of their burdensome welfare roles and perhaps bring about renewed economic development in the city of New Orleans? Did He not answer the prayers of those inhabitants of New Orleans who wished to expose the negligence, indifference, corruption, fraud, and crimes against humanity that the local, state, and federal government abd business leaders sought to hide for so long? And I stated, "Larry, God even answered the prayers of CNN, who always long to report such newsworthy and not so newsworthy events. What do you mean God does not hear the prayers of humankind and all other species that exist on earth? What people recognize is that every thought we think, every word we speak is a prayer and God and the Holy Spirit are listening.

If you believe in God or some form of Singularity:

Father Edward Schillebeeckx notes the following in his book, Church: The Human Story of God, Crossroad, 1993, p.91 (softcover):

"Therefore the historical future is not known even to God; otherwise we and our history would be merely a puppet show in which God holds the strings. For God, too, history is an adventure, an open history for and of men and women."

Bottom line: One of God's greatest gifts to us is that of the Future.

Schillebeeckx was responding to the Dutch citizens who were blaming God for the North Sea storms that destroyed a significant number of levees resulting in a significant loss of life and severe storm damage. Sound familiar??

And also in one profound, short paragraph, Schillebeeck vitiates all prophecies ever made and relegates all prophets to the fortune teller waste pile.