Sharia is based on Ten Commandments

Truly scary!!
Truly scary!!

In Europe it got so bad ~ that if you did not agree with Muslims on Shari'a you were a racist and Islamophobe.

There is no equality for non-Muslims under Shari'a [at all] ~ women are worth half in any Islamic court.

That this could be passed off as Christian or in any way a reflection of western values is truly scary.

AB95

Concerning your post of "August 1, 2010 9:13 AM".

Doesn't it say something in the bible about, "Peace, peace and then wham-o"?

"My Kingdom is not of this world", "Fear not, I have overcome the world", "Father forgive them, they know not what they do", "This is GOOD NEWS of great joy for ALL the people", "It is God's Will that ALL be saved", does any sound familiar?

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

IraIra

You wrote, "Instead, he chooses to misrepresent Sharia to the American public with cheap salesmanship by contrasting it to the ten commandments, totally hiding the real facts and presently practiced laws written in the Hadith and the Sunna by Muslim scholars who enforce Islamic supremacism, misogyny, slavery, amputations of the opposite limbs, child-bride marriages, honor killings and murder for apostasy just to name a few."

The koran, as far as I know, not only teaches that deception, in the name of the god of islam, is acceptable but is a very integral "concept" in islam for its goal of world domination.

satan has been called the deceiver, among other things such as a liar and a thief, so this may give you a clue as to the identity of the god of islam.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

IraIra - "Is Dr. Khan of University of Delaware such a simpleton to think Americans are so naive to take what he "sells" hook, line and sinker without ever checking?"

Take a look at the comments on this thread. His students and the leaders at his school no doubt lap it up with jumps and cheers oh so excited to hear that Islam is a religion of peace and that there is nothing to worry about. Sadly the average person in the West is utterly clueless, utterly without any capacity for rational critical thinking, they merely soak up like a sponge whatever is given to them, like a baby taking pablum, and whichever presenter is most approved by the established class, the so-called mainstream media, the academics, etc., well that just makes it all that much more official. The number of people thinking for themselves and learning that Islam is something which is a direct and permanent threat to the survival of Western Civilization and that it cannot under any circumstances be allowed to spread in the West is still quite minuscule. It is highly unlikely the West will survive. Rather, like a bunch of grinning morons, the West will welcome Islam in and accommodate it until the bitter end.

It is a matter of Shame on the University of Delaware for having Dr. Muqtedar Khan as director of Islamic studies, when he can not even represent the truth, the correct version, the context and basic fundamental facts on Islamic Sharia law.
Instead, he chooses to misrepresent Sharia to the American public with cheap salesmanship by contrasting it to the ten commandments, totally hiding the real facts and presently practiced laws written in the Hadith and the Sunna by Muslim scholars who enforce Islamic supremacism, misogyny, slavery, amputations of the opposite limbs, child-bride marriages, honor killings and murder for apostasy just to name a few.

Is Dr. Khan of University of Delaware such a simpleton to think Americans are so naive to take what he "sells" hook, line and sinker without ever checking? He clearly does not belong in a leadership / teaching capacity with such narrow mindedness and acute bias against known and easily available facts!
My source: The complete infidel's guide to the Koran, author, Robert Spencer, and too many other books to mention.
Nice try Khan!

please check out http://www.islamicsolutions.com/islam-a-quick-introduction/

From the article: The 12 Top Reasons To Burn A Qu'ran On 9/11

http://hubpages.com/hub/The-12-Top-Reasons-To-Burn-A-Quran-On-911

A quote from it: You are the lowest form of life on God's Earth, and although you hide behind your claims of Godliness you are nothing more than the true spawn of Satan himself.

AB95

You wrote, "ThomasBaum, it is critical that you take on the issue of Islam from the standpoint of defending Western civilization, defending Christians from Islam. It is not just some sort of spiritual issue the way you seem to want to approach it."

Just what is wrong with taking it on from the "viewpoint" of God?

Didn't Jesus say, "My Kingdom is not of this world?".

Islam is about world domination whether it be from terrorism, the ballot box, lies, whatever.

Didn't Jesus say, "I have come to set the earth on fire, and how I wish it were already blazing! ..."?

God is a Being of Pure Love, a "Consuming Fire of Pure Love".

This "Consuming Fire" will burn away "all of the crud", so to speak.

Jesus said, "Night is coming when no man can work...", did He not?

As I have said, "The dawning of the seventh day, the new heavens and the new earth, shall come, but the night of the sixth day shall precede it".

We have been in the sixth day ever since we, humanity, have been here.

How long each of the first five days, (periods of time), lasted, I do not know.

How much longer the sixth day lasts until night comes, I do not know.

Jesus has told us, whether or not we believe Him, is up to us.

Sometimes, God sends a messenger to repeat what God has already told us, is it because God needs to be reminded or is it for us to be reminded?

There are many times in the bible that it seems as if God repeats Himself, as I have already asked, is it for God's sake or our sake?

I am not here to tell you or anyone else, what to do, I am here to tell you and everyone else that what the Angels announced to the shepherds, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I proclaim to you good news of great joy that will be for all the people.", is indeed true.

Notice it says, "FOR ALL THE PEOPLE".

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

ThomasBaum, it is critical that you take on the issue of Islam from the standpoint of defending Western civilization, defending Christians from Islam. It is not just some sort of spiritual issue the way you seem to want to approach it. The only times that the West has ever successfully defended herself from Islam it took war, blood, guts, fighting. Prayer alone will not do it. Unless you have some sort of apocalyptic vision where every Christian just willingly bends their neck for the slaughter at the hands of Islam, and that Christ will return to save Christianity before the last Christian is slaughtered, then something beyond mere prayer and bible talk will be needed to defend the West from Islam. And good luck converting Muslims, sure, the rare example is inspiring but the fact that they then live under a death sentence makes it only the rarest of believers in Christ who is willing to renounce Islam.

AB95

You wrote, "ThomasBaum, you can't just make it up as you go along, sounds like you have your own non-biblical theories, sort of like what Muhammad did in a sense."

I imagine that is what some of the biblical scholars and religious authorities of Jesus's day said about Him.

By the way, remember the cup and what was in it at the "Last Supper"?

Remember how the god of islam has "outlawed" alcohol?

This should tell you something about the god of islam.

God gave us reason for a reason, actually for more than one reason, and has also sent us the Holy Spirit to "guide us" not to make us clones or parrots.

Two messages were given to the shepherds, according to Luke:

1. "Do not be afraid; for behold, I proclaim to you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. For today in the city of David a savior has been born for you who is Messiah and Lord. And this will be a sign for you: you will find an infant wrapped in swaddling clothes and lying in a manger."

2. "Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests."

Two seperate and distinct messages, both true, and doesn't it say in (1.), "good news of great joy that will be for all the people"?

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth, which will arrive at the dawning of the seventh day.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

ThomasBaum, you can't just make it up as you go along, sounds like you have your own non-biblical theories, sort of like what Muhammad did in a sense.

AB95

You wrote, "ThomasBaum, the subject is Islam, do you think that Muhammad and Muslims who reject Christ are still saved by the blood of Christ? That would be absurd,"

I think that God is our Judge, not you, not me.

I believe that Jesus took the sin and the sins of All upon Himself.

I believe Jesus when He said, "Father forgive them, they know not what they do", He did not say, 'some of them'.

Maybe God's Mercy extending to All seems absurd to you but if God's Mercy doesn't exceed our puny concept of mercy, then what kind of God do you think God Is?

You then wrote, "if God was going to take everyone into His Kingdom in the end regardless of what they do on earth then much of what Jesus himself said and much of what is in the bible is meaningless mumbo jumbo."

Is it "mumbo jumbo" or could it be that God just does not fit into the "box" that so many of us have constructed for God, including those that have used the "bible" as their blueprint?

Doesn't it say in the bible, "My Thoughts are not your thoughts and My Ways are not your ways", this statement alone should give some of those that have it "all figured out" some pause, don't you think?

Jesus said a "lot of things", do you think that they are contradictory when they seem to be or complimentary, even if we don't totally understand?

I know a little and I have met God and have met satan but I most definitely do NOT "know it all", nor do I have a desire to be a "know it all", I am counting on God to know enough to do the "job" that God chose for me to do.

You then wrote, "If you believe that then you are like Muhammad who called Jesus a liar."

Was it Muhammad or was it the god of islam?

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

tjmlrc

You wrote, "It has to be a conscious choice to accept salvation. It doesn't work any other way."

Do you think that God might have a say in this?

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

tjmlrc

You wrote, "In the Bible it says that every knee shall bow. Every tongue shall confess that he is Lord. (at judgement)"

Doesn't this "say something to you" about the universality of God's Plan?

You then wrote, "The question is, where will you spend your eternity as everyone will be raised to give an account of their life."

You do know that there is a difference between eternity and everlasting, don't you?

If you notice, you did say EVERYONE, did you not?

As I have said, it is not GOOD NEWS unless the Good News is for ALL.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

ThomasBaum, the subject is Islam, do you think that Muhammad and Muslims who reject Christ are still saved by the blood of Christ? That would be absurd, if God was going to take everyone into His Kingdom in the end regardless of what they do on earth then much of what Jesus himself said and much of what is in the bible is meaningless mumbo jumbo. If you believe that then you are like Muhammad who called Jesus a liar.

AB95

You wrote, "And it is not true that everyone is a child of God, was Hitler a child of God, was Muhammad a child of God? No way Jose, not a chance."

I believe, just as it says, "Let Us make man (humanity) in Our Image...", satan was created and satan created NO HUMAN BEINGS and satan is not a human being.

I also believe that it was satan who deceived Mohammed, considering that the god of islam gets mighty upset when anyone says that Jesus Is God-Incarnate and that God is a Trinity.

God is a Trinity, I have met the Trinity and also, God is a Being of Pure Love, love is not an attribute of God but is God's Very Being.

Since satan is a liar and a thief, as Jesus let us know, it is only fitting that satan speaks highly of Jesus but also totally denies Who Jesus Is, God-Incarnate, and has tried to "hijack" Jesus and call Jesus "one of his prohets".

God became One of us, a human being, therefore He became the Brother of ALL of us and when Jesus was asked by His Apostles to teach them "how to pray", He responded, "Our Father...", so yes, we are all God's children.

Jesus died for us and He extended the invitation to "Come follow Me", something to think about.

You then wrote, "Or are you one of those people who believe that no matter what anyone does everyone goes to heaven?"

I look past heaven to the Kingdom.

Hell and death (spiritual and physical) are real and yet did not Jesus say, "Simon, thou art Peter and upon this rock, I will build MY CHURCH and 'the gates of the netherworld' shall NOT prevail against It".

The whole "mission" of Jesus's CHURCH spelled out clearly and concisely.

Jesus won the "keys" to hell and death (spiritual and physical) and will use them in due time, God's Time.

When Jesus cried out from the cross, "My God, My God, why have Thou forsaken Me", do you think He was speaking of something happening right then or do you think He thought it was a good time to speak some words from a psalm?

The GOOD NEWS would not be Good News unless it is GOOD NEWS FOR ALL.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

rohit57

You wrote, "However "Jehovah’s Witnesses can be disfellowshipped for a number of rule violations: premarital or extramarital sex, using alcohol excessively,..."

I believe you are nitpicking."

You wrote that it was a commandment, I wrote that it wasn't, where is the nitpicking.

Just because people call themself "Christian" of whatever persuation, denominational or non-denominational, does not mean that a "rule" made by them is anything more than a "rule" made by them.

You then wrote, "Surely I did not intend that ALL Muslims actually abstain from alcohol, but they ARE supposed to, and in some Islamic countries there are heavy penalties for drinking."

I didn't think you did but I was commenting on what you wrote.

You also wrote, "Penalties for the import, manufacture, possession, and consumption of alcohol or illegal drugs in Saudi Arabia are severe. Convicted offenders can expect long jail sentences, heavy fines, public floggings, and/or deportation"

I could be wrong but I think that the "penalty" that one could receive, exceeds those that you have mentioned.

You then wrote, "As for your last sentence, I have no idea what you want me to be ready for..."

This is just part of my way of speaking to the whole world, I guess one could say the two phrases go together.

As I have said previously, God's Plan is, ultimately, for ALL to be in God's Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth, God cares, so should we.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

The U.S. is a nation of laws -- man's laws. It is not a Christian nation. That is not what the Establishment clause of the first amendment says. So, to argue that Islam should not be offensive to a Christian nation is to fundamentally misunderstand the United States. Perhaps the author needs to study a little American history before making such patently absurd claims.

To the poster who speculates "They still did not figure out why the lose to Israel in every aspect economy wise it's because Jewish pray only once a week and they (the Muslims) pray 35 times a week, say everybody pray 1 hour each time, Jewish spent extra 34 hours doing productive work," I would submit that the more likely reason for economic disparity is twofold: 1. most importantly, the exclusion of women from the workforce, and 2. Sharia law is fundamentally inimicable to growth-based economic systems (prohibition of interest payments). We could debate endlessly the wisdom of such economic systems, but that is another discussion.

AMviennaVA

You wrote, "Please keep in mind that the Christian communities of Palestine & Irak, which survived thousands of years of Muslim rule"

It probably seems like "thousands of years" but there were no "Muslims" before Islam and Islam came into being in the 600's AD which means that "Muslim rule" anywhere could not be over 1400 years.

For that matter there were no "Christian communities" until after Jesus's death which was approximately 2,000 years ago.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

tjmlrc, Unless you are aware of Muhammad or Hitler repenting and accepting Christ before they died then your point merely confuses the discussion. Muhammad specifically rejected Christ, Islam specifically rejects Christ, Hitler, well everyone knows what he did. The Koran actually contains more anti-semitic content than even Mein Kampf. In the OT which you claim is not needed it says that God will bless those who bless the Jews and curse those who curse the Jews. That alone goes a long way to explaining the decrepit state of the so-called Muslim world. Pretending that Muslims are "children of God" does not help anyone or anything. It is a modern liberal Christian platitude that they repeat just to make themselves feel good. If they really cared about Muslims they would warn them that the path they are on leads to their destruction.

Rohit57, you said "So that means that you do not take the 9th commandment seriously and consider yourself free to bear false witness". I wonder where you come to the conclusion at all. I had stated earlier the following:

"Then comes the one on lying, which is the most grotesque of them all. It has 3 words too many "against thy neighbor" which makes that the most vile statement in human history. That one promotes lying for your fellow tribes man and lying against a stranger. There can be no set of commandments that can be promoting in-group morality and out-group hostility. ENOUGH ALREADY".

Yes I do not take the 9th commandment at all seriously. In fact i find it very grotesque as it was stated. In fact it is your 9th commandment is the one which encourages false testimony or at least condones it. The only one of the four possible scenarios that it admonishes against lying. that is when you are giving evidence when your fellow tribes man's fortunes are at stake. I suppose you obey the 9th commandment and that would make me vary of ever relying on you to be a witness, when my welfare is at stake. Ten commandments are the most despicable set of admonishments in known history of mankind.

Islamic culture is an empty well that offers the West nothing but repression, pain and misery.

And it is not true that everyone is a child of God, was Hitler a child of God, was Muhammad a child of God? No way Jose, not a chance.
Posted by: AB95 | July 28, 2010 11:44 PM
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Actually we are ALL born "children of GOD." What path we take in life is our choice. Our acceptance of the gift of salvation is also our choice.
It might interest you to know that if Hitler truly repented of his sins and believe that Christ died for his sins, he could be in heaven as we speak. Did he do this? Who knows right now?
Salvation and heaven isn't automatic for anyone. It has to be a conscious choice to accept salvation. It doesn't work any other way.

We will not survive as a species unless we grow out of our infantile need for a Cosmic Daddy, to love and punish us, to scare our many enemies, and protect us from death.
What cowardice!!

Posted by: gkam

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

In the Bible it says that every knee shall bow. Every tongue shall confess that he is Lord. (at judgement)
I should like to see your face when you have to do this to your "cosmic daddy."
PS....
Haven't you heard?: We will all die so there is no protection from "death." The question is, where will you spend your eternity as everyone will be raised to give an account of their life.
Hope you find your way.

gschultens, Several problems with your comment. You accuse people of being knee-jerk in "demonizing" Islam but in fact it is you who is knee-jerk in defending Islam! Those who take the time to learn the truth about Islam, and then put up with ignorant people calling them bigoted or intolerant for having the nerve to speak the truth about Islam can in no way shape manner or form be considered knee-jerk. And it is not true that everyone is a child of God, was Hitler a child of God, was Muhammad a child of God? No way Jose, not a chance. Or are you one of those people who believe that no matter what anyone does everyone goes to heaven? As for Islam and enlightenment, you are wrong again, Islam wasn't created until the 7th century, long after Christ, and it was the Islamic Jihad wars and the cutting off of the Mediterranean to the Christians of Western Europe by the Muslim Jihad warriors which caused the so-called dark ages, when Europe was cut off from the East. But regardless, Christendom continued to develop, arts, culture, laws, architecture, universities, trades, etc. etc., so in retrospect they did quite well all through the dark ages, but Islam, all that it ever did, from the very start, was conquer existing civilizations and then live off of that until it was eventually eroded away, any so-called achievements in science were done by the conquered Christians or Jews and as those populations were continually eroded away and converted to Islam by all of the various pressures of Jihad and taxation, no further scientific developments ever came from the Muslims. As to tribalism, Islam itself is tribalistic, that is why they continue to follow tribes, the Jews of the OT were tribes but they united under a good God. Islam can only fight since their god, Allah, is not good. You say Islam is not inherently evil, well that just depends on how you define evil, if you use the understanding of the Bible and of Western Civilization, then it is simply a factual matter that Islam is evil, pure blood-soaked irredeemable evil, but if you use the Koran as your guide then Islam is perfection. Take your choice.

What many of the folks who have a knee-jerk need to demonize Islam miss, is that we are all children of God. Islam went through a period of enlightenment when Christianity was in its Dark Ages. Unfortunately, many Mideastern Islamic cultures have slid back into their own Dark Ages. As well, certain Islamic cultures have never gotten beyond being tribal.

Much like many on our own religious right, many people in Islamic countries are suffering from cultural backwardness, not a fundamental evil in their religion. Islamics don't suffer from an inherent evil in their religion any more than Christians suffer from a fundamental evil in their religion.

The real evil in both religions is when the culture distorts and perverts the religion into something to serve evil ends. For example, our own Southern Baptist Convention has become a warfare cult, proxying for the Military Industrial Complex. Somehow, the message of the Prince of Peace has been co-opted by those who advocate anything but.

Simplistic drivel for shallow thinkers and people with no real exposure to Islam. This is just another attempt at the political 'wedge' strategy to make Islam seem what it is not.

Allowing Sharia law will exclude Muslims from full protection of the Constitution and Bill of Rights; these define America.

Allowing another legal system to take precedence or compete with what we have spent several centuries fighting for, strikes at the very core of the American identity, and seems neither wise nor prudent.

We will not survive as a species unless we grow out of our infantile need for a Cosmic Daddy, to love and punish us, to scare our many enemies, and protect us from death.

What cowardice!!

samsara15, actually it is liberal secularists who use government to force their views on everyone! They are afraid of free choice. Christianity REQUIRES each believer make a free choice, it is impossible literally to be forced to be a Christian, the believer must accept Christ in their heart, no one can force that. Islam however does not require any change of heart, merely following certain rules, and people are forced into that. Also, Islam will require even non-believers to follow their rules. Christians may lobby for certain laws but that is what any interest group can do. Christians can't and don't force anyone to do anything.

Banning all religions that try to impose their values on others sounds like a good idea to me. Name a religion that does not attempt to impose it values on others. Short list, isn't it?

Islam is mindless, hateful nonsense. It's really a doctrine of war. Is ok. Americans, except for grrrly Democrats, are armed, rested and ready. If Islam were to gain serious traction here, it's going to be civil warII right here. Ain't gonna happen. Interesting that the Left wing is SO supportive, so loving, so tolerant of Islam when THEY, the Left, will be the first ones beheaded, women the first ones subjugated, stoned and beheaded, the gays the first ones hung on a cross just for being gay. Yet the Left LOVES Islam. Well, no one ever accused the Left as rational. Is ok Lefties, we awful, rough, redneck right-wingers will protect your sorry, limp-wristed surrendering a$$e$. It's clear the fight has been completely wrung out of you all.

DOWN WITH ISLAM!! KEEP SHARIA LAW OUT OF AMERICA!!!! Muhammed is nothing but a false prophet whose teachings have enslaved millions of Women across the globe through out its existance. Any religion that makes women possessions of men is not welcome in America. The terrorists who leveled the World's Trade Center were muslim and deserve to rot in limbo as does every other sheep who chooses to be taken in by this religious sham! Islam is powerful because it insists on dangerous tenants that have no place in society. The first deplorable phrases in the Koran are smack on the first page, pick one up and find out how terrible a religion this is.

Dr. Khan, your column is an insincere attempt to compare apples and oranges. Regardless of the supposed parallels between the Ten Commandments and Sharia, your pointless exercise does nothing to address one of the most disgusting aspects of Sharia: the penalty for apostasy, which as you know is execution. Dr. Khan, as someone who was told I was born a Muslim, I don't believe in Islam nor support it as a religion. Therefore, under Sharia, since I'm of sound mental mind, I'm to be put to death for apostasy. As an educated, hard-working, tax-paying, law-abiding American citizen, who loves life and enjoys time with family and friends, my unfortunate death at the hands of a barbaric system of "law" is a pretty lame proposition to embrace. Shame on you for propagating a senseless religious order. And, comparing it to the almost equally arbitrary and archaic Biblical Commandments does not offer you any sort of safe harbor of reasoning.

POSTED BY: 5160519 | JULY 28, 2010 9:17 AM
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I do not know whether you are a man or a woman, but I take my hat off to you. I have not read such an excellent blog in recent memory. My salutations.

1. The Constitution is NOT based on the 10 commandments. It is a document that creates a government of limited powers. It has NOTHING to do with the 10 commandments.

2. Which 10 commandments is he even talking about? There is vast religious disagreement over what the 10 commandments even are.

3. This guy is using the so called 10 commandments to justify amputation and stoning. He is advocating death for adultery. He proves the point that Sharia is barbaric.

4. What kind of condemnation is it to declare fatwas calling for the MURDER of people exercising basic human rights-- "foolish". You have sex outside marriage--it's ok for someone to murder you. An Iman issues a fatwa calling for Murder of innocents and people commit murder based on that Fatwa-- he calls that foolish. This is an Islamic "moderate".

tboyer33, the Communists tried that, they ended up killing millions of people. So that is probably not a good idea. But it would be appropriate to ban Islam in the West since it is incompatible with Democracy and freedoms. The suggestion that Christians want to do what Islam requires of it's followers is frankly absurd, but I suspect you know that, you just can't get over bashing Christians, it is just too fun, too easy. Learn something about Islam and be a man and figure out how to deal with that very real threat to the future of the West. Any comparisons to Christianity merely prove the commenter has not yet grasped the problem of Islam.

How about we ban all religions that don't respect other faiths and aggressively try to undermine the First Amendment by taking over American government and schools.

Maybe the Oklahoma legislature would like to ban conservative Islam, closely followed by conservative Christianity?

On the alcohol question, it is a perfect example of the mindless drivel of Islam vs. the sublime intellectualism of the bible. Anyone can google bible verses related to alcohol. Note how they are cleverly written pieces of warning or advice as to the problems that one can expect from excess alcohol consumption. There are even verses advocating a small amount as being good for the digestion or something to that effect. Now on the other hand you have Islam which brainlessly demands in short grunted commands, no alcohol! There is no explanation or elaboration, there are no exceptions. And the worst part about it is that Muslims, in the delusional arrogance force this on non-Muslims! Any fool in the West who has a bar or liquor store and thinks that he will get to stay in business after his neighborhood is overtaken by Islam needs to get a clue. They will burn down your store if you don't close it on your own after their "suggestions" that you be more "tolerant" to their "religious beliefs."

rohit57
There is no commandment in Judaism or Christianity about "5. to abstain from alcohol".
You wrote, "Number 5 is not obeyed by all Christians, but it is obeyed by some Christians, and obeyed by Muslims.
How can it possibly be "obeyed by some Christians" when in fact, this "commandment" does not exist?
And as far as "obeyed by Muslims", are you saying that all Muslims abstain from alcohol?
Take care, be ready.
Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.
Posted by: ThomasBaum
----------------------------
You are right that there is no commandment in Judaism or Christianity about abstaining from alcohol. Indeed Jesus turned water into wine and wine is used at circumcision.

However "Jehovah’s Witnesses can be disfellowshipped for a number of rule violations: premarital or extramarital sex, using alcohol excessively,..."

I believe you are nitpicking. Surely I did not intend that ALL Muslims actually abstain from alcohol, but they ARE supposed to, and in some Islamic countries there are heavy penalties for drinking.

"Penalties for the import, manufacture, possession, and consumption of alcohol or illegal drugs in Saudi Arabia are severe. Convicted offenders can expect long jail sentences, heavy fines, public floggings, and/or deportation"

As for your last sentence, I have no idea what you want me to be ready for...

"I can only condemn these fatwas as foolish. Desperate Mullahs struggling to remain relevant to their communities issue them. Their sad attempts further undermine their legitimacy."

But they ARE Fatwahs, and they ARE now part of the Corpus Legis Sharia, with no way to revoke them.

Whatever the basis of Sharia, it long ago built up a very large attendant corpus of rulings, interpretations, aditions and addenda, that is Sharia, and to say that Sharia is anything but a very male dominant, very conservative, very tribal and very constrained code that has in its fundamental principles some horribly evil precepts is to dissemble.
The Old testament does prescribe stoning. Sharia also prescribes stoning.

for that reason alone both the law of Moses and the law of Mohammed are unacceptable legal codes for mankind.

Any where.

IS Islam a "religion?" Or, is it really a totalitarian, expansionist, socio-political ideology? I think Westerners were asleep for a long time but have begun to wake up. Look--a "religion" that endorses its clerics to call for a "fatwa" that calls for the death of anyone who is deemed to be "a threat to Islam," is pure fascism in my book. A man and his family right now, as I write, have been condemned to death by the Egyptian courts for the crime of Converting to Christianity. They were even DENIED the right to convert by the Court. Even following one's conscience and deciding to LEAVE Islam can get someone murdered in many parts of the world. I could go on and on with the sad fact that Islam shows very little respect for life but is very obsessed with protecting its ideology and even lethally attempting to perpetuate it. Sharia Law SHOULD be prohibited, just as Muslims in America should NOT be permitted to form their own police force or army. Islam has little respect anywhere in the world today for a simple reason--Islamic terror attacks are epidemic (in some 15+ nations, including China) with tens of thousands of MUSLIMS murdered over the past few years alone (forget about the infidel figures). And forget about waiting for that Million Muslim March Against Islamic Terror in the streets of America or elsewhere where there is no threat to Muslims to show their disgust of what they claim to be a peaceful "religion" as having become--how about a mere THOUSAND of them marching to denounce the tyrannical aspects of Koranic law which result in incredible intolerance for other viewpoints/faiths and which continue to attempt to erode Western democracies through mass murder attempts and a silencing of those who dare to speak out and criticize Islam? Sorry. In the end, Islam IS what Islam DOES and there IS a war that has been foisted on Western and Eastern societies where militant Islam has created havoc. As George Orwell, once wrote: The consistent thread that runs through virtually ALL totalitarian ideologies is "a belief in their total infallibility, perfection." Not being able to compete with democratic societies, Islam has chosen to attempt to weaken and destroy them today rather than reform itself.

Islam has killed 270 million people, 80 million Hindus - and one of the 10 commandments is thou shalt not kill.

So if Islam is based on the ten commandments I would like to see which 10 Khan is talking about.

After all lying is ok as long as it doesn't break Sharia, murder is fine, rape is excellent, having sex with 9 year old girls is sublime.

The history of Islam is a sad one - beset by cruelty and it has caused the women of the religion in general to be full of anger and hostility.

Ever been to France or England? Watch how the muslims act there.

Violent, angry, irrational.

The best thing we could do for Mr. Khan and his kind are deport them.

Hello

Amvienava claims:
“Please keep in mind that the Christian communities of Palestine & Irak, which survived thousands of years of Muslim rule could not survive 30 years of British or 3 years of American rule (respectively).”

This claim is as ridiculous as saying Islam is peace. Those places you mentioned along with the rest of the Middle East, Asia Minor and all of North Africa were 100% Christians before they were overran by the desert tribes of Arabia flying the flag of Islam. As to the Crusades, they were a belated response to the above.

The first Crusade began in 1095 … 460 years after the first Christian city was overrun by Muslim armies, 457 years after Jerusalem was conquered by Muslim armies, 453 years after Egypt was taken by Muslim armies, 443 after Muslims first plundered Italy, 427 years after Muslim armies first laid siege to the Christian capital of Constantinople, 380 years after Spain was conquered by Muslim armies, 363 years after France was first attacked by Muslim armies, 249 years after Rome itself was sacked by a Muslim army, and only after centuries of church burnings, killings, enslavement and forced conversions of Christians.

AB95 @ July 28, 2010 3:01 PM: I have not gone anywhere. Nor have I claimed that Muslim rule has been kind to Christians. I am simply pointing out that although Christians have suffered under Muslims, they have been exterminated much faster by Western 'Christians'. Who of course constantly lament the cruelty of Muslims.

It would be much better if Western 'Christians' changed their behavior, and opened their minds along the way. Something along the lines of removing the beam from your eye before you worry about someone else's.

Action speaks louder than words! If non-Islamist Muslims seek respect in western societies then they should stand up to the Islamists. We have yet to see a mass demonstrations by Muslims against terrorism in any western country.

AMviennaVA, come on now, please be serious, Islam has been killing and forcibly converting Christians for 1400 years and you want to try to say that the British or Crusaders killed more Christians? You mention the Ottoman empire, they took the best Christian boys from their families and made them janissaries, soldiers for Allah in the Ottoman Empire. That not only destroyed that family, it removed that boy, the best of each family, from the Christian line, he did not build another Christian family, he did not have any Christian descendants! THAT is the evil of Islam, the destruction that Islam has wrought on the Christians, Jews, Hindus, and other non-Muslim indigenous populations throughout the world wherever it has gone, is truly incalculable and makes every other destructive force including even communism pale in comparison.

If the goal in Oklahoma is to pre-empt the use of primitive fundamentalist religious texts from infecting their barbaric dictates onto modern American life, then they most certainly should ban the Bible.

In Deuteronomy 21:18-21, an angry, bloodthirsty crazy called "the Lord" commands that stubborn lazy children be STONED TO DEATH. Do we really want these Christian crazies to unleash their medieval insanity on our modern culture? We need laws to protect our freedoms from creeping Christian fundamentalism.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+21%3A18-21&version=NIV

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (New International Version)

18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

tjmlrc @ July 28, 2010 8:13 AM wrote "See. This is where the problem is chops.
You point out how "half the field of the GOP would be stoned for committing adultery."
Why do you not include the 2/3 field of the DNC that would be stoned for adultery and sexual perversion INCLUDING FORMER POTUS CLINTON?
At least be fair in your burbling......"

The main difference is that the DNC does not constantly preach on my morality and does not tell me what to do. The Republicans cannot utter a sentence without telling me what is morality and what I must not do.

It is bad enough to be preached at, without my asking to be. It is worse when it is done by those whose party is awash in adultery, pedophilia, and every other immorality I am told by them to avoid.

In short, I do not believe that the DNC is 'moral' as compared to the Republicans. It is just that the Republicans are demonstrably hypocritical.

AB95 @ July 27, 2010 5:06 PM (and others for that matter) wrote "your analysis fails in that it is Christians and Jews who have suffered the most with the creation of Islam. It was their lands overtaken and destroyed, their churches and temples defiled, their holy books distorted and lied about."

Leave aside that the Crusaders killed more Christians than anyone else. Which of course made Bush talk of 'Crusade' after 9/11 a very foolish thing.

Please keep in mind that the Christian communities of Palestine & Irak, which survived thousands of years of Muslim rule could not survive 30 years of British or 3 years of American rule (respectively). Also British/French actions in Egypt, culminating in 1956, decimated, literally, the Christian population there. US tolerance, under Adm. Bristol, in the end-days of the Ottoman Empire, resulted in the destruction of a Christian population that had existed since Christianity was formed.

The point is that Western Christendom has been the biggest enemy of Christians. It has been an even bigger threat to their very existence than Islam, which at least gave the opportunity to convert.

Reject all religion. There is no god.

One man having illusion we call it psychotic, millions of man having the same illusion we call it religion. Religion believe can make man doing irrational thing, for example: Don't kill another human being is rational but killing another human being for drawing something on a piece of paper is A OK - is irrational.

Among all the religion, Islam is the worst for it is the most exclusive thinking. Can a "infidel" go to their mosque? Can a non-Christian go to a church? or Can a non-Buddhist go to a Buddhist temple?

If you let too many Muslims into the country, the next thing you will find is they will built a lot of mosques and big speaker facing all directions to remind you to do the prayer. They still did not figure out why the lose to Israel in every aspect economy wise it's because Jewish pray only once a week and they (the Muslims) pray 35 times a week, say everybody pray 1 hour each time, Jewish spent extra 34 hours doing productive work. Multiply that with 5 decades you got the pictures.

All religion should be rejected outright. All of it has proven false, hateful, violent, and divisive. History does not lie no matter how hard the religious haters try to rewrite it. We must move past the religious nonsense. America in particular and civilized western society must finally say, enough and be done with it.

I had no idea that Sharia was taking over America like that. Here in Tennessee, we have a guy claiming to be the "anti-Sharia" candidate. The pro-Sharia candidate has apparently gone into hiding. And it's been a while since I've been in Oklahoma, but I had no idea that Sharia was the law of the land there.

Sarah Palin argued on Bill O'Reilly's show that America's laws should be based on the Ten Commandments because its Constitution is based on it. Good, No Muslim will object to that.

Your source is Sarah Palin?

Then implement Sharia on a turnip truck.

since muslim countries are universally disasters compared to ours, why in the world would anyone want more muslim in this country?

The Constitution and the entirety of America are "built on" the Bible and the Ten Commandments only in the most broad sense, in the sense that the values, the concepts of right and wrong, of the people who created America were for the most part Christians whose beliefs came from the Bible. They had zero interest in excluding religion from government - this is absolutely proved by their actions, by laws they passed. They merely did not want the government to interfere with religion or act to make one religion the official religion as was the case in Europe. But with regard to Islam - it is important that people grasp that the broad concepts of the bible upon which America was built on - are entirely different and incompatible under Islam.

That is, while they did not, nor did they want to, specifically and formally make America a "Christian" nation, the beliefs and principles of Christianity are those upon which America was formed and built. Islam rejects outright those same principles! Even the very basic concept of "lying" is not the same under Islam where it is condoned and authorized if the lie furthers the Jihad and the spread of Islam. Separation of Church (or mosque) and state is also specifically not a part of Islam. The entire world view of Islam precludes it or followers of it from ever having been involved in creating anything like America or the Constitution.

If there had been Muslims in America at the time of the founding of the country THERE WOULD NOT BE A CONSTITUTION AND THERE WOULD NOT BE AN AMERICA. The Muslims would have killed Thomas Jefferson, there would have been war until either the Muslims were killed or they installed Sharia law thereby precluding the formation of the Constitution. Slavery would still exist in North America under Islam. This is why it is not overstating the case to say that the current generation of Americans (since the 1960s) are clinically, literally, mentally insane to be allowing Islam to spread in America.

The legal entity the US was founded in 1776. The American nation is a people. Those are the original people, the Founding Stock Americans. They are English, Scots, Dutch, French and German.

The American Nation formed in the 17th century as a single people, a true nation, sharing common lineage, religion and beliefs is a Christian nation. The Legal entity US of A founded in 1776 is a secular entity.

The 1776 legal entity US of A was founded by the 17th Century American Nation, the Founding Stock Americans, the American People, the American Nation.

Islam should not receive first amendment protection. Its a system of conquest and subjugation. It is not at peace with anything that is not Islamic. Those loyal to Islam can not be loyal to America as long as America is not an Islamic Republic or monarchy.

In the US as a liberal democracy with the prohibition against an established church, scripture of any type is not controlling. All persons of faith need to understand that our law should not be based on religious principles unless and until those principles are adopted by a secular state after free and open discussion in which no religious proposition trumps all others.

"Sarah Palin argued on Bill O'Reilly's show that America's laws should be based on the Ten Commandments because its Constitution is based on it. Good, No Muslim will object to that."
------------------------------------

Muslim's in the U.S. SHOULD object to laws based on the Ten Commandments, or any other religious doctrine, as the 1st amendment expressly forbids laws establishing religion. The Constitution does not mention God. The founders clearly believed in the separation of church and state.

By the way, outlawing Sharia would violate the 1st amendment also, as it is a religious concept that is part of Islam, even in a country where secular law governs, as in the U.S. Bigoted prohibitions of one religious practice or another are illegal, unconstitutional and should never be public policy in the U.S. - unless they violate the law. The vast majority of Sharia as practiced by Islamic people in the U.S. does not violate U.S. law.

Dear Mr Khan,

How can I possibly be brief in describing your complete misinterpretation of the basis of the United States Constitution and judicial system?

Allow me to begin by stating the you fundamentally misrepresent ethics, laws and religion. Your implicit assumption in your article is that the three are synonimous, when they are in truth only related. Every religion has a code of ethics, but not all ethics are based on religious belief. Furthermore, laws may or may not be based on either religion or ethics.

Having begun badly, you further damage your argument by baldy stating that the Constitution of the United States is based on the Ten Commandments. You say this without any further evidence than a second hand quotation from Sarah Palin who, whatever other qualities she might possess, is in no way a qualified Constitutional scholar. On what do you base this assertion which flies in the face of all available historical evidence and of the document itself?

In fact, the US Constitution is as much based on the pagan legal traditions of Ancient Greece and Rome, as on any Judeo-Christian ethical concerns. The Constitutional protection of freedom of worship was specifically included by the Founders to avoid the religious persecution, religious intolerance, sectarian violence and dogmatic interference by established churches in Europe from which they had fled in the first place.

Remember that many of the founders were, in fact, deists, who could only just be included within the Judeo-Christian fold. Jefferson refers to "Nature, and Nature's God" in the Declaration of Independence, but he makes no mention of Christ, the Jewish God, the Ten Commandments or anything more specific.

"Thou shalt have no God, but God" is the very first Commandment, directly contradicted by the First Amendment in the Bill of Rights, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". How can you possibly reconcile the two statements? They could not possibly be any clearer.

Americans today should be as averse to the imposition of the Ten Commandments as a legal framework as to the imposition of Sharia. And while I profoundly respect your religion and your right to speak your mind, I abhor the historical inaccuracies and what I can only hope is the unintentional confusion of different concepts and traditions in an effort to support your argument. You would do better to do as Sarah Palin does and declare yourself in favor of the imposition of religious belief in this country. But please leave our poor, tattered and harried, but beloved Constitution out of your exercise in mental gymnastics.

I remain, Sir, yours truly,

Fernando

Sharia law has no more legitimacy in a secular democracy than does Mosaic law....

We've had plenty of (recent) trouble trying to keep the 10 commandments out of view and away from conspicuous display in non-religious/public & government-related environments. These efforts have not been 100% successful.

Sharia law is even more anachronistic, and has no place in the framework of secular judicial rulings/laws that govern conduct in the USA. Religious rules of conduct do not hold up in secular courts of law.

For example, the institution of marriage is governed by secular laws, even though loads of people get married in churches.

During a divorce proceeding, folks find out very quickly that the only place religion plays a role, is in the minds of the religious believers themselves.

Separation of church and state is our abiding legal philosophy both here and everywhere in the West.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

Khan fails to address the real issues that the west has with shariah. We can agree that some fatwas are outlandish and not in line with mainstream Islam so let us dispense with those. Let us focus instead on examples of shariah that are mainstream and both in the Quran and/or Hadith as well as practiced widely in the Muslim world. Would shariah require any punishment for adultery, not just stoning but anything at all? The punishment for adultery is for the wronged spouse to decide and perhaps result in divorce but the state has no place punishing the adulterer. Next, how about apostasy? We read that shariah calls for execution of apostates and we have many examples across the Muslim world but there is some debate about whether death is called for. But, would shariah require any punishment for apostasy? The fact that there is a debate about whether it is a capital offense is troubling enough and sufficient to reject any "legal" system that could possibly endorse such barbarity. How about blasphemy? Should there be punishment for blasphemy? Shariah calls for punishment for blasphemy, I believe, or else there are a great number of Muslim theologians who have devoted their lives to understanding shariah who are misunderstanding Islamic law. How about inheritance rights, unequal rights of Muslims and non-Muslims, and the list goes on. No, Tennessee was right in rejecting shariah, although it is redundant in a sense since so much of shariah would be contrary to the Constitution and religious laws have no place in our republic. Whether there is overlap in shariah and the Ten Commandments is worse than irrelevant.

tjmlrc,

"Go to he!!
Oh. You are........"

Good one!

Why are you too frightened to type "hell"?

Are you not aware that if one does not believe in hell, one need not fear hell?

It's just like the b-geyman... uh, I mean, bogeyman.

POSTED BY: ROHIT57 | JULY 28, 2010 7:37 AM
"When people bash the ten commandments, I always wonder if they know how universal some of the recommendations are.

Nobody bashes the ten commandments. I certainly didn't and don't. My beef is with the simpletons who wave ten commandments at your face as if that is the "authoritative and comprehensive" guide to morality, and somehow morality is not possible without the tether of a religion. Neither of these true and is a total red-herring.

For starters there is nothing in the ten commandments about having sex with your sister or with your daughter as long as they are not already someone else's possession.. er.. wife. So, does that make those acts okay? Do you not covet your mother only because she is someone's wife? What utter nonsense?!

Most of the religious zealots who keep waving the ten commandments don't even stop to think about it in their daily life (except when talking about it with fake reverence).

Also, one's true morality comes from a deeper place than consciously trying to obey a list of "to do" or "not to do" lists.

Is the implication that if you are not a Christian and don't believe in the fairly tale of Moses you are constantly scheming to abduct all the wives in your neighborhood, kill everyone you see, bear false witness, and all the other immoral acts?

It is quite apt that it supposedly started its life as a stone tablet. Now the ten commandments has become nothing but a stone with which the religious nuts try to bludgeon what they consider as non believers.

No Christian should ignore the OT. Any study of the NT or of the life of Jesus has to be complemented by an understanding of where in the OT the events of the NT were predicted and how they are fulfilled in the NT. It is all interrelated. Also, the fact that the various books of the OT were written by different people over different ages yet they all tie together is one miracle that proves the book is from God not manmade. The issue is to put in context what in the OT seems harsh to us today. When people who hate God try to bring up parts of the OT in a pathetic attempt to denigrate the bible or God or Christians it just needs to be recognized that those doing that are pretty much clueless as to the overall picture. Explaining the verses is better than suggesting they be ignored.

Fun fact for people trying to grapple with the OT vs. Koran. In the OT the injunctions to violence by God were for the Israelites themselves, to maintain their own orderly society, or as in the case of the Canaanites, it was a specific tribe, in that case an idol worshiping, baby sacrificing, truly evil tribe who had to be attacked and killed (to give the Israelites one place to grow as God intended, not intermingled with the evil Canaanites.)

Now this is the super duper critical, super duper double triple important fact that people today who try to compare the OT to the Koran MUST get in their head - in the Koran, it is not some evil tribe thousands of years ago who need to be wiped out, IT IS YOU, TODAY, AS YOU SIT THERE READING THIS!! I realize that this is a tiny minor insignificant quibble but hopefully you can grasp the difference.

Action speaks louder than words! If non-Islamist Muslims seek respect in western societies then they should stand up to the Islamist. We have yet to see a real mass demonstration by Muslims against terrorism in any western country.

"Please get out of the old testament. Think of that as a historical accounting.

Pay more heed to the New Testament."
Better advise: ignore the old testament; ignore the new testament; ignore all magical books.
Posted by: PSolus
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Go to he!!

Oh. You are........

"Please get out of the old testament. Think of that as a historical accounting.

Pay more heed to the New Testament."

Better advise: ignore the old testament; ignore the new testament; ignore all magical books.

Conservatives in the West cannot advocate for the Ten Commandments and campaign against the Sharia at the same time, the two are one and the same.
##########################################
The colleges should be ashamed.
I have seen college grads that cannot spell and now this.

THE COMMANDMENTS AND THE sharia ARE NOT ONE AND THE SAME.

Athena4,

Please get out of the old testament. Think of that as a historical accounting.

Pay more heed to the New Testament.

rohit57

There is no commandment in Judaism or Christianity about "5. to abstain from alcohol".

You wrote, "Number 5 is not obeyed by all Christians, but it is obeyed by some Christians, and obeyed by Muslims.

How can it possibly be "obeyed by some Christians" when in fact, this "commandment" does not exist?

And as far as "obeyed by Muslims", are you saying that all Muslims abstain from alcohol?

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Commandments Six, Seven and Eight: Thou shall not commit murder, thou shall not commit adultery and thou shall not steal. Just as in the Bible, these are serious crimes according to the Quran. Quran forbids the taking of life except as justice for crimes (Quran 17:33), it forbids stealing and punishes it with amputation (Quran 5:38) and Islam forbids unlawful sexual intercourse as evil (Quran 17:32).

All these crimes get severe corporal punishment in Sharia law, but these punishments often described as barbaric in the West have their origins in the Bible too, such as stoning for adultery. But the Quran always keeps the door for forgiveness open and all who repent are forgiven. The message is unequivocal - "But whoever repents after his wrongdoing and reforms, Allah will turn to him in forgiveness. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." (Quran 5:39).

Dr. Khan, I think you just shot yourself in the foot. Remember one of Mustapha Kamal's first acts was to abolish Sharia Law!

And it is NOT Christian underpinnings, It is Cudeo-christian-Big Difference

"The one true GOD would never advocate violence against another for non-belief. The one true God insists on free choice for all. Only he deals out retribution."

Uh.. yeah, right. Read the Old Testament lately?

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, slay ye everyone his men that were joined unto Baal-peor. (Numbers 25:5)

kblgca

You wrote, "What we really need is freedom *from* religions. Not more freedom *of* religion."

I don't know if you live in the USA but if you do, this is one of the founding principles of this country so, according to you, it is time to throw away the country.

You are speaking of "establishing" a tyranny of your own, in that all should kowtow to your beliefs or non-beliefs, whatever the case may be.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Actually it is far from too much. I teach philosophy and logic so I understand you perfectly well. I do not agree with you, but that is not the same as "too much to handle".
Posted by: rohit57 | July 28, 2010 9:52 AM

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Those who can't do, teach...........

But, somehow I don't believe your claim to be cerebrally employed.

That's asking for a little too much "blind belief."

Or in the alternative, I have a feeling you are lying. But it's just a feeling.....

Until the states vote to change the firat amednment of the Constituion this discussion point is moot. As long as that amendment stands, no religious laws (from any religion) can be implimented by the government.

I once stopped believing in air, and almost suffocated as a result.

But, at the last moment, a accepted air into my lungs as my lord and savior, and the holy trinity of nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide lifted me up and renewed my life.

Hallelujah!

The argument about belief in air being the same as belief in God, or the Gods, pops up from time to time. It may be couched in charming terms (ie. the closing narration of "The Preacher's Wife") or with less attractive overtones (here, for instance), but it is, of course, specious in both cases.

Barometers tell us the weight of air, and countless experiments demosntrate its presence and power. In the Washington area, a five minute change in the pressure and movement of air on Sunday disrupted the lives of over a hundred thousand people, for days. I got my electricity back last night and there are trees all over the neighborhood that dropped branches or were even snapped like kindling.

One could I suppose, argue that the presence or absence of God is as measurable as the effects of a storm front or a vaccuum chamber, but there is no instrumentation apart from the human heart to measure that assertion, and one cannot insist that another person accept the testimony of one's own heart as factual, no matter how sincere it is.

I believe several posters have already made the point: the article seems to accept at face value the remarkable assertion that the Constitution and the Decalogue are compatible. They are not. Codification of laws: the code of Hammurabi, the Commandments of the Torah, the Twelve Tablets, Shariah, and many others, all contributed to the model of a society constrained by a central code of law. But that line of descent does not make the Constitution the SAME as any of them.

It may be interesting from a theological standpoint to debate where Shariah and the Torah (and Jewish or Christian codes) intersect, where they are compatible and where they are not, but that is completely irrelevant to their compatability to the Constitution. While notions like Islam-is-not-really-a-religion are grotesqueries that understandably excite a defensive response like this article, the author tries, consciously or not, to appease the underlying religious (not to say theocratic) prejudices that spark such pronouncements.

Citizens attacked in such terms should stand on their protections under the free exercise clause, and remind their attackers that the State is not competent to pronounce on what is, and is not, a "real" religion.

tjmlrc,

"Not to worry. There is a special place for you folks."

Yay!

Will there be latte?

Uh, you won't be there, right?

Think of it this way. You can't hold air. You can't touch it. You can't see it. But everyday you trust that it's there for your use. That is "blind belief."
---------------
Actually that is not blind belief - you just gave me reasons why it is not actually a blind belief to believe in air.
---------------

I'm sorry if the concept is too much for you to handle.
----------------
Actually it is far from too much. I teach philosophy and logic so I understand you perfectly well. I do not agree with you, but that is not the same as "too much to handle".

But stay with your blind belief and good luck.
---------------

Maybe someday................or maybe not.
It is your choice.
Posted by: tjmlrc
------------------------

tjmlrc,
"LOVE THEY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF."
What if I hate myself?
Should I then hate my neighbor?
After all, I have "blind faith" (Can't Find My Way Home) that I'm a "sinner", just like everyone else.
Can't wait for my "gift" to arrive.
Posted by: PSolus
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Not to worry. There is a special place for you folks.

It is foolish to base one's life on something which has never been verified and which requires "blind belief".
Posted by: rohit57
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

But that is all that's required and it's there for the taking. All you have to do is ask GOD.

Think of it this way. You can't hold air. You can't touch it. You can't see it. But everyday you trust that it's there for your use. That is "blind belief."

I'm sorry if the concept is too much for you to handle.

Maybe someday................or maybe not.

It is your choice.

5160519

Apostasy? what about heresy? what about blasphemy?

Do you suppose it is a crime to be fat under Sharia law? It's going to take alot of stones to stone a fat person to death. PLUS, if you don't get them with a knockout blow right away, they could turn on ya.

There is alot to think about in this Sharia law.

tjmlrc,

"LOVE THEY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF."

What if I hate myself?

Should I then hate my neighbor?

After all, I have "blind faith" (Can't Find My Way Home) that I'm a "sinner", just like everyone else.

Can't wait for my "gift" to arrive.

Sir, I appreciate your attempt to educate Americans on Islam.

Now allow me to educate you on American jurisprudence.

The reason Sharia law must not be used in the United States is that the legal principles conflict with established American law.

From a legal perspective, applying Sharia law in cases such as divorce, custody, visitation, contractual disputes and other civil matters destroys hundreds of years of case law and precedent.

Sharia law conflicts with a basic tenet of American jurisprudence. Equality. Under Sharia law, women are not afforded the same legal protections and rights afforded males. That is a simple fact.

We cannot pick and choose which bits and pieces of Sharia law we want to follow. Each decision or settlement reached under Sharia law impacts the entire American legal system, and creates precedent. Precedents which are then built on and expanded upon, and almost all of which would conflict with existing statutes and regulations (not to mention the Constitutional problems)

Our Constitution prohibits government establishment of ANY religion. Sharia is exclusively the legal arm of a world religion.

As such, it must be rejected by our legal system. Rejecting it does not mean we reject Muslims or Islam (or any other religion).

A good stonin' never hurt anybody. I wish I had been stoned more in my youth.

Ah, the good ole days; when someone said a bad word, we stoned them to death, and we like it like that.

We don't need all this new fangled legal stuff messing up everything.

All these immoral people in the world; I say, stone some sense into them!

I think that all women in Islamic cultures should be banned from wearing a burqa. Even more, they should be foreced to wear high heel shoes and short skirts. They should be foreced ot wear heavy make-up. They should all be forced to have blonde highlights in their hair. When they go to the market to pick up a chicken, they should be forced to wear a thong bikini.
If they do not submit to these modest demands, then we should delcare war on all Islamic countries.

Dr. Khan, your column is an insincere attempt to compare apples and oranges. Regardless of the supposed parallels between the Ten Commandments and Sharia, your pointless exercise does nothing to address one of the most disgusting aspects of Sharia: the penalty for apostasy, which as you know is execution. Dr. Khan, as someone who was told I was born a Muslim, I don't believe in Islam nor support it as a religion. Therefore, under Sharia, since I'm of sound mental mind, I'm to be put to death for apostasy. As an educated, hard-working, tax-paying, law-abiding American citizen, who loves life and enjoys time with family and friends, my unfortunate death at the hands of a barbaric system of "law" is a pretty lame proposition to embrace. Shame on you for propagating a senseless religious order. And, comparing it to the almost equally arbitrary and archaic Biblical Commandments does not offer you any sort of safe harbor of reasoning.

Let's bring back stoning.

Let's pull wings off bugs.

Let's put the cat in the microwave.

Weird ...

I take the unfairness point tjmlrc but hope u realize that u just upped the unfairness by saying 2/3's of the Dems would be stoned for adultery too. Its intersting that u too did exactly what u criticized me for in the same sentence.
Guess we r cut from the same burbling stone eh mate
Posted by: Chops2
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Actually we're probably not.
That was a right-handed uppercut to the left as I felt you were singling out the GOP. I lean right because that party (while certainly packed with their own issues) does not have a heart attack regarding belief in my belief of the one true GOd. Most importantly, it wasn't Christianlike, as we are all sinners. truthfully there is only one commandment in the new testament that might even make "secular" happy.

It simply states;

LOVE THEY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.

IF.....that was the only commandment we kept this truly would be a better world.

First, never quote Sarah Palin when discussing religion or the constitution. She is a pure bred idiot.

Second, the constitution was not based upon any part of the 10 commandments. In fact, the founders emphasized in several letters that the government was not affiliated with any religion (as it should be).

Third, the first amendment is not only a guarantee of the freedom of religion, it is also the freedom FROM religion. Your right to spout off about your religious beliefs ends at my front door thank you very much.

And finally, religion in its core is a cult. It promotes itself by indoctrinating members into a belief system that they are taught is superior to other beliefs. Christian zealotry is just as deadly as the Muslim kind.

It's a irony and a sad statement on Americans that after 240+ years a large majority of our citizens are still too ignorant to understand that religion and politician should never be used in the same sentence, that religious intolerance works its magic on everyone and that if we keep it up, someone will eventually hand us a glass of kool-aid, with a gun to our head telling us to drink.

Secular says, "As to the ten commandments, I do not find any of them palatable".
---------------
So that means that you do not take the 9th commandment seriously and consider yourself free to bear false witness.

But then why should we take seriously anything you say?

Nice try, Professor Khan, but suggesting that vast numbers of Moslems don't understand Sharia just isn't going to wash.

"Part of the problem comes from Muslim misrepresentation of the Shariah and its mistaken associations with egregious Fatwas."

Operationally and ethically, there's not that much difference between them and the self-proclaimed "born-again" "compassionate" "conservative" "Christians" who claim that they love Jesus and that everyone else must but who actively reject Jesus' teachings and who infest so much of the Republican Party.

Incidentally, for generations, until the "unelected judges of the Supreme Court" overturned it, Tennessee barred preachers from holding elected office.

I do not believe that the Bible was written by God. In my view it was written by human beings who were often wise but sometimes unwise.
Posted by: rohit57
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
You are right! It was indeed "written" by human beings.
Based on the words that God put into their minds because he wanted the word spread and this was the medium to spread the good word.
It requires blind belief, but then so does salvation.
Are you up to the challenge in order to receive the gift of salvation?
Posted by: tjmlrc
------------------------------

Is this "gift" going to come by UPS or USPS? :)

I am afraid I am not much of a fan of "blind belief".

See what the Buddha says to the Kalamas about blind belief:
--------
Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, "The monk is our teacher." Kalamas, when you yourselves know: "These things are bad; these things are blamable; these things are censured by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to harm and ill," abandon them.'
------------
I found the Buddha's message quite appealing. He has the same point of view which science has, but he extends it to the religious sphere.

As for salvation, I never received mail (or email) from a sinner who wrote that he had gone to hell, nor from someone saved who wrote that he had gone to heaven...

It is foolish to base one's life on something which has never been verified and which requires "blind belief".

Rohit67 you wrote, "Well, they cannot both be WHOLLY right, but they could both be right in the parts where they agree. There is a fair amount of overlap between the ten commandments and the Buddha's five precepts"

My question to all these cafeteria scripturalists is if you know that scriptures cannot be wholly right but parts of it are right and you choose what is right and leave out the bad. If you know enough to pick what is right from these silly books of fables, why do you need them damn books of fables in the first place. The fact of the matter is those books are quite filthy and vile in almost every respect that we could a have simple rule of thumb "if it is in the scripture it is probably not meant for general consumption". We have come along way from the barbaric laws of in most countries except the OIC countries, I am glad for that and would never go for any laws be it be from Manu, or Moses or MO.

Rohit you also mentioned, "As for number three, adultery used at one time to be a crime in the US. It no longer is, but the US would be wise to criminalize it, NOT as a felony but as a misdemeanor. Betrayihng your spouse is a violation of vows you took at the wedding, and should not be punished any less than any other breach of promise". what is that you want to do different. Break of promises are dealt with civilly in all cases including adultery. It is incumbent on part of the aggrieved to seek restitution in all cases, be it be adultery or breaking a promissory note. What else do you want the state to do put a pair of eyes in each bedroom? That's a nightmare this country does not need.

Above all all these morons keep talking about god's laws. First of all no body has established that there any gods, period. But all these people actually know whats on these mythical characters mind that they would appoint themselves to implement the mythical character's will. What a boat load of crap.

As to the ten commandments, I do not find any of them palatable. First five of them are grotesque homage to a mythical megalomaniacal celestial dictator. the fifth of course is a bribe to care for ones parent. Speak of corruption. Thene there about three which are passable as basis for human conduct. Then comes the one on lying, which is the most groteque of them all. It has 3 words too many "against thy neighbor" which makes that the most vile statement in human history. That one promotes lying for your fellow tribes man and lying against a stranger. There can be no set of commandments that can be promoting in-group morality and out-group hostility. ENOUGH ALREADY.

rohit57, you have to be careful about how you think of peace. If all of the early Christians had acted like Quakers then Islam would have killed them all and all of Europe would have been Islamized, Christianity entirely wiped off the face of the earth. You may hate Christians but there is no way that Jesus would have wanted that to happen. It took Christians, good Christian, using physical force and war to directly fight off the Muslims and save civilization for future generations. America would not exist had Islam overrun all of Europe and wiped out the Christians. Islam has been a greater enslaver than Europe or America. It was the British who forced some Muslims to stop slavery but slavery continues in many Muslim countries today. If Islam had conquered Europe (because no Christians were willing to fight, because they thought like you that peace meant not fighting) then all of the great inventions and technological advancements that European Christians and Jews have done would not have occurred. A world controlled by Islam will be like the dark ages times 1000 and it will never end. The West can't allow Islam to spread here or it will destroy our freedoms and way of life for future generations. Only by being intolerant of Islam and using restrictive laws and even war to defend our free lands will allow the West to survive.

All I can say is thank God I am a Christian.

See. This is where the problem is chops.
You point out how "half the field of the GOP would be stoned for committing adultery."
Why do you not include the 2/3 field of the DNC that would be stoned for adultery and sexual perversion INCLUDING FORMER POTUS CLINTON?
At least be fair in your burbling......

Posted by: tjmlrc
-----------------

I take the unfairness point tjmlrc but hope u realize that u just upped the unfairness by saying 2/3's of the Dems would be stoned for adultery too. Its intersting that u too did exactly what u criticized me for in the same sentence.

Guess we r cut from the same burbling stone eh mate

Islam is not a religion of peace. Neither is Christianity. However, Jesus himself was indeed a man of peace. And some branches of Christianity, Quakers for instance, do take peace seriously.

There is no evidence that Sarah Palin is a woman of peace. But neither is Obama a man of peace, nor was George Bush, nor Putin nor... According to Brzezinski, even Jimmy Carter once seriously considered using nuclear weapons in Afghanistan.

For being peaceful is a tough choice. Jesus made it and he was crucified. Gandhi and Martin Luther King made it and they were both assassinated.

So it is understandable that people who call themselves Christian do not actually choose to follow Jesus in his footsteps.

Peace is a tough choice. But it is the right choice.

I do not believe that the Bible was written by God. In my view it was written by human beings who were often wise but sometimes unwise.
Posted by: rohit57
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
You are right! It was indeed "written" by human beings.
Based on the words that God put into their minds because he wanted the word spread and this was the medium to spread the good word.
It requires blind belief, but then so does salvation.

Are you up to the challenge in order to receive the gift of salvation?

You lost me when you surmised that Americans have a "deep tradition of religious tolerance and appreciation for religious freedoms." There is no such tradition, nor is there such an appreciation. Americans historically have been circumspect of any religious faith not their own, and American sects have taken it on themselves to convert and villify the masses who don't ascribe to their religious points of view. As for appreciation, possibly only the most enlightened of the bunch follow you there, but even then, possibly only as part of their public persona. Additionally, the views of most religious towards the nonreligious are, well, downright sacreligious.

Khan,

Please never compare the muslim god to the one true GOD.

The one true GOD would never advocate violence against another for non-belief. The one true God insists on free choice for all. Only he deals out retribution. The muslim god apparently tells his followers differently.

If you disagree, please check with Michael Youssef, a former muslim, now a born again Christian minister.

Sarah Palin said we should have gods laws.
So she supports stonings of adulterers and homosexuals?
Also bear in mind if we had Gods law, half the field of the GOP would be stoned for adultery.
Isn't Iran and the Taliban the closest thing to literal "gods law" tat she wishes to promote?
Posted by: Chops2
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
See. This is where the problem is chops.
You point out how "half the field of the GOP would be stoned for committing adultery."
Why do you not include the 2/3 field of the DNC that would be stoned for adultery and sexual perversion INCLUDING FORMER POTUS CLINTON?
At least be fair in your burbling......

I suggest u look at the bible, read its laws, then have a bloody good think about if you would like to revert back to "gods law".
Words matter buddy. Read em. You cant run from them.
Posted by: Chops2
-------------------------

I do not believe that the Bible was written by God. In my view it was written by human beings who were often wise but sometimes unwise. Thus it makes no sense to quote the Bible at me.

Jesus stands out because he was clearly inspired and he saw things that others did not. But he is, in spirit, very different from the rest of Christianity which has been pretty violent and dogmatic at times.

Let me recommend to you the book "The Gospel According to Jesus", by Stephen Mitchell. You can buy it from Amazon.com for around $10.

I think it is important to separate Jesus from both Islam and the Old Testament. Both the Koran and the Old Testament recommend violence under certain circumstances. The Koran is a bit more "generous" with violence, recommending that the heads of non-believers be cut off - something that, thanksfully, Muslims usually do not obey.

But they do at times. Nadir Shah, when he invaded Delhi, had large numbers of Hindus massacred for no other crime than that of not being Muslims.

http://www.harappa.com/engr/chandni.html

But the message of Jesus is quite different. The man who asked us to turn the other cheek and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" is very different in spirit from the Old Testament and the Koran.

Indeed. Jesus is much closer to Buddha and Gandhi than he is to Mohammed.

This is part of the paradox of Christianity, that it is a marriage of two incompatible philosophies. The Old Testament philosophy of "eye for an eye" and the philosophy of Jesus of "turn the other cheek".

And this is why supposedly Christian nations pile up nuclear weapons while praying for peace...

Sarah Palin said we should have gods laws.
So she supports stonings of adulterers and homosexuals?
Also bear in mind if we had Gods law, half the field of the GOP would be stoned for adultery.
Isn't Iran and the Taliban the closest thing to literal "gods law" tat she wishes to promote?
Posted by: Chops2
---------------
In one word, No.

It is not what she says, it is not what she does. You, like so many anti-Palin people, are putting words in her mouth.

America needs to return to civility.

Posted by: rohit57
----------------------
You know its interesting Rohit57, than when actually confronted with "gods law", the way god intended it to be if u believe in the truth of the bible, that was so fantastic 2000 years ago, is so reviled now.

You and Palin can not have it both ways. You cant pick and choose "gods law" like a salad bar.

If she is for gods law, she is for punishment for adultery, the regulation of slavery and many other horrors.

I suggest u look at the bible, read its laws, then have a bloody good think about if you would like to revert back to "gods law".

Words matter buddy. Read em. You cant run from them.

Any religion that says you will go to hell if you don't follow "this" religion is pretty stupid. It is even more stupid to argue for "freedom of religion" when you have more than one of those religions. As pure logic would have it, both of them cannot be right.
Posted by: kblgca
---------------------------------------
Well, they cannot both be WHOLLY right, but they could both be right in the parts where they agree. There is a fair amount of overlap between the ten commandments and the Buddha's five precepts:

1. to abstain from taking life.
2. to abstain from stealing
3. to abstain from sexual misconduct.
4. to abstain from false speech.
5. to abstain from alcohol

These five are necessary for a society to function well, and they are necessary for a decent moral existence. One, two and four are pretty universal and typically part of secular law. Number 5 is not obeyed by all Christians, but it is obeyed by some Christians, and obeyed by Muslims. It was also recommended by Gandhi, albeit he was not a Buddhist (or a Muslim).

As for number three, adultery used at one time to be a crime in the US. It no longer is, but the US would be wise to criminalize it, NOT as a felony but as a misdemeanor. Betrayihng your spouse is a violation of vows you took at the wedding, and should not be punished any less than any other breach of promise.

And part of number three IS part of civil law, in the form of injunctions against rape and sexual harrassment.

When people bash the ten commandments, I always wonder if they know how universal some of the recommendations are.

What a load of tripe this article is. Though I am no fan of Sarah she was not advocating a parallel Christian legal system for Christians. She was stating her belief that the cultural and ideological beginnings of the US were based on Judeo-Christian history. Except she ignores how many of the founding fathers were deists and agnostics.

Sharia is a parallel legal system in which women have minimal legal rights. There should NEVER be a sharia system set up in the USA. Our country is liberal democratic one who's core is its legal system. We should never allow any other system to supercede it.

Sarah Palin said we should have gods laws.
So she supports stonings of adulterers and homosexuals?
Also bear in mind if we had Gods law, half the field of the GOP would be stoned for adultery.
Isn't Iran and the Taliban the closest thing to literal "gods law" tat she wishes to promote?
Posted by: Chops2
---------------
In one word, No.

It is not what she says, it is not what she does. You, like so many anti-Palin people, are putting words in her mouth.

America needs to return to civility.

I was waiting for the punchline, "islam is a religion of peace".

Actions, not words, define things. The arguments of a muslim apologist are meaningless.

I find that Dr. Khan's "blah, blah, blah" about sharia law to be far less convincing than death by stoning, "honor" killings, institutionalized pedophelia, amputation as punishment, etc., etc.

islam, with or without sharia law, has no place in a civilized world. Law and religion must never be merged. One function of law is to protect citizens from the abuses of religion.

Until the alleged moderates of the faith rise in massive street demonstrations worldwide to denounce the actions of other muslims, I won't believe a thing said by any muslim. As long as muslims cower in fear of their own brethren we should put no stock in what they say and deeply question their motives.

I think we've had enough from the muslim apologists. Let's move on to reality.

(The words "muslim" and "islam" are intentionally written in all lowercase letters as a sign of disrespect of this hateful and intolerant cult of personality.)

Conservatives can't say one thing and do another? Ha, you can argue that until the cows come home, but the fact of the matter is, that is what conservatives do best.

The most controversial part of modern sharia is stoning of (female) adulterers. Here is what Dr Khan says: "All these crimes get severe corporal punishment in Sharia law, but these punishments often described as barbaric in the West have their origins in the Bible too, such as stoning for adultery. But the Quran always keeps the door for forgiveness open and all who repent are forgiven." But stoning is not mentioned in the Quran nor hadith. In Muslim law, it was allowed for Jews after the injunctions in Leviticus. However, Jews historically circuscribed stoning with many precautions to make it impractical for the most part, using not forgiveness but legalisms. When Dr Khan says "the Bible" he doesn't make it clear about Christians. Jesus (John 8) was asked about the law of stoning a female adulterer. He refused to condemn the law about stoning (this is widely misunderstood) but did reinforce the law about adultery in a new way. His point was that legalists or perfectionists such as the Pharisees (or puritan Muslims) miss the importance of personal conscience in morality and don't succeed in their goals of getting to heaven simply by strict laws. This is a major difference between puritan Muslims and Christians and others, not between puritans of all faiths. Stoning is not Islamic law any more than other faiths, except for puritan legalists and perfectionists, and nowadays these laws are invented without basis in religious history for reasons of social cohesion not because of adultery.

The difficulty of accepting anything like sharia law is that it is not defined as anything at all except as the often insane ravings of primitive village Imams, who are so obsessed with the idea of sex that even riding a bicycle must be forbidden to women. Which, over all is the biggest problem with Islam. It is, to my mind, a primitive religion that seeks to justify itself by ever increasing the restrictions it places on its followers and by certain sections that continuously justify acts of terror as martyrdom in a holy cause. It is to a certain extent a real equal opportunities religion as muslim terrorists seem quite happy to blow anybody to bits for no real reason at all. This article does not address the real difficulty that Islam faces before it can be taken seriously as a world religion. This is that there is no authoritative centralised religious leadership in Islam to state finally once and for all what is and what is not acceptable in Islamic practice. There can be no debate about Islam because the primitive Ayatollah's will not allow it. It is for this reason that Islam is viewed with great suspicion and distrust.

where is the sharia law being imposed in america??

i,m so surprised at you westren culturests,

why mention the sharia give you all this diarrheatic PARANOIA?

what happen to the free market place of ideology???

your paranoia and calling people names prove one thing ,

1-that you canot stand for it

2-that your hole/y culture is full of bores and is not immune to a solid culture competition or invasion.

3-work on amendig your bores.

if you think the sharia is a threat ,
you shoud see SARA and her sisters,

of any thing,
its the worst discredits edicts from the bible and human secularism that constantly make their way not only to the american laws but other nations laws.

nothing fail nations like paranoid hypocritical heads on both scale,theology as well as human ideology.

Sarah Palin said we should have gods laws.

So she supports stonings of adulterers and homosexuals?

Also bear in mind if we had Gods law, half the field of the GOP would be stoned for adultery.

Isn't Iran and the Taliban the closest thing to literal "gods law" tat she wishes to promote?

Kblgca has a good point, that Christianity and Islam are mirror images of each other. Why not save yourself all the troulbe and just go to church? So you loose the crescent, but you gain a cross. Both are neat logos, each as good as the other.

Mohammed, Jesus; mosque, church; the Koran, the Bible; Allah, God; it all runs weirdly parralell; why fight over it? Once you are a Christian, and going to church, I am sure it will feel familir before long, probably no more than a few weeks, if that long; and you will soon forget all about Islam.

If you are so convinced that the two religions are same/similar, why don't you give up your mosque and go to the church and pray??

Any religion that says you will go to hell if you don't follow "this" religion is pretty stupid. It is even more stupid to argue for "freedom of religion" when you have more than one of those religions. As pure logic would have it, both of them cannot be right.

This "freedom of religion" nonsense is what has allowed these diseases of the mind to thrive as it perpetuates the philosophy -- "since we are stupid, you can be stupid too".

Of course the above logic doesn't apply to the religions which at their core do not have this "exceptionalism" built into their philosophy. Hinduism and Buddhism come to mind. They are also comfortable in their own skin so much so that "conversion" is not built into part of those religion. If you want to convert you really have to do your own research as to what needs to be done -- and as far as I know there is nothing specific you have to do other than to proclaim yourself and decide what it means from that day on. They make no pronouncements about other religions. Yet they have managed to thrive.

What we really need is freedom *from* religions. Not more freedom *of* religion.

We should not adopt Sharia Law here.

Furthermore, ALL Islamic countries should implement a system that separates religous belief from the legal system, and they should also all adopt list of legal rights of equality for all citizens, applied equally to all religions including atheists, to men and women, and straight and gay people, alike.

Islamic culture which seeks to trample the rights of the individual in favor of strong-man religious and political rule can never be seen as anything more than barbaric when compared to Western Secularism.

mono1

You are a rude little know-it-all pip-squeak and I wish you would shut up. You getting on my last nerve.

Athena4, your analysis fails in that it is Christians and Jews who have suffered the most with the creation of Islam. It was their lands overtaken and destroyed, their churches and temples defiled, their holy books distorted and lied about. Allah is not the same entity as the God of the Bible. In order to understand this you have to be able to examine the "nature" of the God of the bible and compare him to the Allah of the Koran. Even someone who believes that both are false fairy tales still, if intellectually honest, will recognize that they are talking about two diametrically opposed entities. Essentially, Allah of the Koran is most like what in the bible is known as Satan, not God. If you ever find yourself in a community controlled by Islam you will most likely just pretend to follow Islam and Muhammad in order to save your physical being in this world. But for the Christian who knows the true God, it would be impossible for them to deny Christ and even pretend allegiance to Islam, so they would then be killed as a martyr for Christ.

Not only should we not allow even a whiff of Sharia in this country we should actively lobby against Sharia in Muslim countries. It is incumbent upon infidels to save Muslims from barbaric laws.

Commandments One, Two and Three: God says in the Bible -- I am your Lord, the one true God and you shall take no God before me. You shall not make idols or images of God and you shall not take the Lord's name in vain.
And God says in the Quran -- And your God is one god and he is most Compassionate and Merciful (Quran 2:163), Do not take other Gods other than Allah; Indeed idolatry is a great sin (Quran 31:13) and do not swear by Allah in vain (Quran 2:224).
This is the Abrahamic creed of monotheism and Jews and Muslims adhere to and so do Christians, though they often talk of God's unity in terms of trinity and idols and images of Jesus and Mary proliferate; you will find none of Allah.

Yeah, that's all right for you Abramic monotheists. But not everyone in America is a Christian, Jew, or Moslem. What do you propose to do about atheists, Pagans, Hindus, Buddhists, etc?

I'll keep my idols, graven images, and Goddess and God, thank you very much. I'll say to you what I say to Christians who want to impose their views on me - I respect your right to practice your religion as you see fit. Just don't push it on me or harm anyone with it.

American Law is based on British Common Law, and on the ideas of law that have existed in Europe since the time of the Roman Empire, and thank goodness that our founding fathers mixed in a whole mess of unprecedented religious and personal freedoms in there too. American Law is not based on the Ten Commandments (of which there are 3 versions in the Bible), and in fact, it could not be. Only two of them are even still illegal (three if you consider perjury, but lying in general isn't). They don't mention rape, slavery (which was quite fine back then), assault, discrimination, neglect, all sorts of things we need laws for.

As for Sharia, I'm afraid it cannot be ever implemented in its entirety for the same reason. While I'm sure it isn't fair to lump it in with all the terrible laws we see in Muslim countries, I know what is in the Old Testament, and I know that can never be allowed to be modern law. Old Muslim laws cannot either.

“The influence of Islam paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.” – Winston Churchill

We should not be ashamed to worry about ideologies that openly and vociferously seek to destroy our civilization. It is not only a right, but also the duty of free people to speak against every ideology that threatens freedom.

We need to ask ourselves whether Islam (not just fringe radicals) sanction the violence we are seeing perpetrated in the name of Allah around the world. And if we are to be honest then we must answer yes. The Koran, Haddiths, Sharia and Islamic history all show that Islam has a developed doctrine of theology and law that mandates violence against non-believers. Except for Mulsims fighting non-Muslims around the world the world is at peace. Every major conflict today (Somalia, Chechnya, etc.) are Muslims beheading and amputating and torturing Christians in search of a global hegemony of Sharia.

I am not surprised by the beheadings of Jews and Christians by Muslims. Muhammad, who is considered the perfect representation of human behavior in Islam, personally beheaded between 600-900 members of the Coriza tribe in Arabia. If the prophet did it then it is the proper way for Muslims to behave, and Muslims today are simply following the example of the prophet.

As to whether Islam is a religion of peace… the peaceful revelations of the Koran are limited to the time when the prophet was relatively powerless in his native city of Mecca. These revelations were abrogated and made null in later verses once Muhammad had become a powerful and wealthy warlord in Medina. In the last revealed (the un-abrogated verses) the message is clear: Sura 9:5 “Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them… and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush.” Sura 5:33 “Those that wage war against Allah and his messenger… shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on opposite sides.” Sahih Al-Bukhari Vol 8, Book 82, Hadith 795 “The prophet cut off the hands and feet of the men belonging to the tribe of Uraina.”

Islam is a supremacist hate group that seeks, in the name of religious freedom, to destroy all remnants of freedom from Western civilization. How ironic that we are so adamant to support their mission to destroy us.

dedicated to establishing the hegemony of Islamic law over the world.

Mono pontificates thus:

“if people do not get the ADL (justice) from almighty god ,where else they get it ?and who is just and who is not ,where is the scale?”

This argument is based on a false premise: that the speaker in the Quran is the All-knowing Creator who is the source of all what is good. Close examination of the text would confirm your claim only if the Creator has the ignorance and personality of a primitive desert warlord.

Muqtedar Khan Part I

You wrote, "There is an emerging preemptive anti-Shariah movement in America as manifest by an Oklahoma legislator who is seeking to introduce a bill that will ban Shariah law in his state."

As there should be.

You then wrote, "Part of the problem comes from Muslim misrepresentation of the Shariah and its mistaken associations with egregious Fatwas. The latest examples include the fatwa issued in India in July 2010, which has banned Muslim girls from riding bicycles, claiming it violates their veiling and does harm to their body structure, and the one in Saudi Arabia, issued in March 2010, calling for putting to death people who establish co-educational environments."

You have presented two very good examples of just why "sharia", in any way, shape or form, should never become any part of any "legal" structure in the USA.

You phrased it "Muslim misrepresentation of the Shariah and its mistaken associations with egregious Fatwas", mistaken or not, "sharia" has no place in the "legal" system of the USA, "sharia" goes against the very foundation of the USA.

I was going to add the thing about "there is no compunction in religion" which so many bring up concerning Islam, I happened to look up the word, first to see if I spelled it right and then I happened to see what it means.

"Compunction", if I have the right word, does not mean that it should not be forced on another, as so many claim it means, but it means basically, having a "conscience", so the statement, "there is no compunction in religion", would mean that the Koran says: one need not have a conscience or one need not use their conscience, is that correct?

You then wrote, "The other part of the problem is the profound ignorance about Islam among American politicians and commentators."

There are many "politicians and commentators" that have "profound ignorance" about Islam in that they do not see just what the "goal" of Islam is, and that is "world domination" and the imposition of a "theowannabeocracy".

You then wrote, "I can only condemn these fatwas as foolish."

What you should do is condemn ALL FATWAS as being against the "law of the USA", this country is not perfect, far from it actually, but it was set up so that ALL beliefs are open to ALL people and NO belief is to be forced on another.

Muqtedar KhanPart II

You then wrote, "But Americans, with their deep tradition of religious tolerance and appreciation for religious freedoms should understand that Islamic Shariah is based on the same principles that they call Judeo-Christian values."

"Islamic Shariah" is diametrically opposed to what Jesus taught.

You then wrote, "The key values of Islamic Shariah are monotheism (Tawhid) and justice (Adl)."

First off, not all believe in monotheism and according to the "seperation of church and state", one of the most basic foundational principles of the USA is that people have a "God-given right" to believe or not believe what they decide, even those that do not believe in any kind of God or gods.

Second, shariah justice is not based in any way, shape, or form on what Jesus taught, which you seem to indicate, so to equate the two is at best misleading.

You then wrote, "This is the Abrahamic creed of monotheism and Jews and Muslims adhere to and so do Christians, though they often talk of God's unity in terms of trinity and idols and images of Jesus and Mary proliferate;"

There is not "often talk" of Jesus being God-Incarnate and God being a Trinity, it is the very essence of Christianity, that He Who Is referred to as the Second Person of the Trinity, God, became One of us.

The Jews, for the most part, do not recognize Jesus as either a Prophet or God-Incarnate.

The god of islam gets mighty upset if anyone refers to Jesus as God-Incarnate or to God as their Father, does he not?

Jesus said to refer to God as "Our Father" and even more intimately as "Abba" which translates as Dad or Daddy.

Kind of strange isn't it that the god of islam has called Jesus a liar and yet claims Jesus as his prophet?

You then wrote, "Conservatives in the West cannot advocate for the Ten Commandments and campaign against the Shariah at the same time, the two are one and the same."

Saying something does not make it so.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

MaryC4 "Christians believing that they were implementing the Ten Commandments conducted Crusades against the Muslims and killed thousands of innocent people"

Actually that is quite incorrect. In fact, the Christian Crusaders were doing exactly what the United States has done after 9/11! The Crusades were a RESPONSE to the SAME EXACT Islamic Jihad that inspired 9/11! The only real problem with the Crusades is that they were too little, too late. If they had actually been what you say, if they had actually used force to eradicate Islam from the lands that it had conquered beginning in the 7th century after Christ, lands that up to then had been Christian and Jewish, then today the World Trade Center would still be standing. Even today, the morons of the United States are not actually fighting Islam, in fact, we have used all of the money, lives, limbs, and efforts, TO INSTALL NEW CONSTITUTIONS IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN THAT ARE SUBSERVIENT TO ISLAM AND SHARIA LAW!!! Talk about a waste of time! The West will not be safe until it directly deals with the problem of Islam and Sharia, directly deals with what the formal written doctrines of Islam demand, and quit comparing to Christianity and trying to blame Christians and Jews for problems as a diversion from dealing with the real problem.

Thank you mono1, we secularists are well in debt of you. The posting from the kind of you keeps the credulous in the west from buying into islam's nonsensical rationalizations. Your postings make it clear that the islam is made of the stuff that come out of the south end of a north bound mule. Thank you for your postings, that gives lie to all the so called moderate muslims explanations that islam is a tolerant and peaceful religion, blah, blah. look at your history. The credulous amongst the west are easily bought into teh moral equivalence between the christian atrocities of the past with the muslim atrocities that continue in this age of reason still. The big difference is there is introspection n the west and vast majority of people do not wish to go back to the horrible days of theocracy. Whereas to this day in muslim world any attempt at introspection is labeled as apostasy and the perpetrator is quickly silenced, either physically of psychologically. I have yet to see a practicing muslim do an exegetical treatise on islam.

"Conservatives in the West cannot advocate for the Ten Commandments and campaign against the Shariah at the same time, the two are one and the same."

Really? Maybe you're right. Christians believing that they were implementing the Ten Commandments conducted Crusades against the Muslims and killed thousands of innocent people, and Muslims believing they were implementing the Shariah flew planes into buildings full of innocent people.

Let's stick to secular law. Let's base our laws on the values of the people who expressed these values in the Constitution, doing our best to update the Constitution as needed, using new knowledge and reason.

And by the way, it is not a "mistake" to associate Shariah with "egregious fatwahs" or amputations for theft any more than it is a mistake to associate Christianity with the Inquisition. Both are examples of religious people seizing the opportunity to use civil law to impose their religious beliefs on everyone. One difference is, the Catholic Church is no longer burning people at the stake, while the stonings for adultery continue in the Middle East, and honor killings occur even among Muslims living in the United States.

Of course Americans recoil from the persistence of barbaric practices such as this. You can try to disown such bad actors, but it's not going to work until they are loudly and effectively shunned by those who speak officially for Islam, and by the majority of Muslims around the world.

Fun fact, but tragic as well given that most naive people in the West don't know it to be true: Muhammad broke ALL of the Ten Commandments! Muhammad and the religion he created stand directly against the freedoms and democracies of the West which were built upon the principles of the Bible including the Ten Commandments. Shariah has zero place in the West and if allowed to spread in the West along with Islam itself, it will with absolute 100% certainty destroy the West and eliminate the freedoms that the soft citizens of the West now take entirely for granted.

ten commandments are part and parcel of monotheism.

in other words ,
negating or messing with the first rule of momotheism mess the whole messeage of monotheism.

in other words,
the 9 pack of commandments without the first rule of monotheism ,without the common ground of monotheism,without the axis of monotheism,people lose monotheism ,people lose the whole parcel,because people lose the just god.

if people do not get the ADL (justice) from almighty god ,where else they get it ?and who is just and who is not ,where is the scale? ist the american scale or the russian scale or the arab scale or the brazilian scale or china scale or the mexican scale or indian scale or?where is the reference?
you know how many scale in the world?

you have more than 7 billion human being and every one has a scale.

1-until this minute of history ,
juchristianity is not sure who god is,is he one? or 3 is he incarnated in man ?or is he the son of god?is he in the relics or above the sky?was he crucified on the cross by mankind ?or his father spared him for the sin and love of mankind?

2-juchristinity ran to human secularism when lost the axis of monotheism.

3-another *commandment* muslims as well as none muslims need to understand is that failure with the god lead to failure in human ideology,

in other word donot expect a failure in god to be a champion in human ideology!juchristianity and her daughter secularism are part and parcel of each other,

are failure of each other,
one says god died for your sin ,
and the other one says keep god idel in the church box ???

4-the above town with her 2 poles(juchristianity and human secularism) are not only messing monotheism but both poles are claming to mankind that theirs is the way the truth and life .

5- casting the sharia in the above town require the introduction of monotheism and inviting people to monotheism .

6-it took prophet mohamed more than 13 years out of 23 years as a prophet and messenger to mankind to establish monotheism(TAWHEED),

7-3/4 of the QURAN is about TAWHEED (the meccan surats),
the rest about the laws and sharia.

BEHOLD:

WE[i]the HUUMATE(s) on S.ace S.hip Earth, aka S.S. Gaia, S.S. Geoid, S.S. TELLUSng something; Art all bless'th, if Ye seek "IT", via the amazing-Grace of our O.U.R. TEN-FiAT'S of The NEW-[COSMiC] song (Borneth From our-OLD, of course).

WHEREFORE:

PRAiSE [IT] THE O.ne U.niversal R.eligion. "IT" = NO HE, NO SHE only being iT-SELF via TEMPerature, aka Holyi-"TiME" and 'IT" is "ETERNiTY Avoiding Lonliness" [Through US].

.....................................(..U;S;A..).............................
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.. . . . .PEACE, SHALOM, SALAAM. AHIMSA, ZINGYU,
. . . . ..PAZ, FRIEDAN, MIR..…LOVE, ROCK-n-ROLL..!

According to The 'NEW-SONG' of the "HOlyi COsmic FEelers FAith" Religion, Belief, Awareness) aka the "Religion Of Everything Before Science Of Everything" [Prophetically "Made-In-America", NO Accident]

1) "Let there be NO Worship of JEALOUSY as a G-D/ALLAH/iSHVARA et al!"

2) "Let there be NO Abuse of LOVE to forgive UNCORRECTED-SIN(s)!"

3) "Let there be NO Hassling over a NAME for G-d!"

4) "Let there be NO Denial of Freedom of the O.ne U.niversal R.eligion et al!"

5) "Let there be NO Dishonoring of HONORABLE Parents!"

6) "Let there be NO Unjustifiable HOMICIDE or HURTING!"

7) "Let there be NO Sex with Non-CONSENTERS or BEASTS!"

8) "Let there be NO Theft from NON-THIEVES or NON-USERERS!"

9) "Let there be NO False WITNESSING or Un-JUST Judging!"

0) "Let there be NO Envy of HUE{MATES or Folks keeping these FIATS of O.U.R. NEW-SONG!"

.. Credit to "JJ" . . @ . . http://onwapo.com

i, I .

Khan claims the following:
“The key values of Islamic Shariah are monotheism (Tawhid) and justice (Adl). And the key principles of the Islamic Shariah are based on the Ten Commandments.”

I would like for you to point out for me the justice (Adl) for women and non-Muslims living under Shariah.
Below is a link for the Omar Pact that institutionalized the Sharia “ethics” for the treatment of Dhimmis; Christians and Jews. Take the “rules” one at a time and point to your readers the element of justice in any of them and its relation to the Ten Commandments.

www.bible.ca/islam/islam-kills-pact-of-umar.htm

muslim1908 you said, "Very good, Dr. Khan. Keep up the good work". Are you kidding me? This is the most putrid piece of vile writing yet. The day there is anything like sharia , is the day I would move to North Korea.

Dr. Khan, you may have thought that you will reassuring us all that Sharia is same as ten commandment. First of you flawed in so many ways, I dont know where to start.

1) Are you here making a case for Sharia? If so why do we want to first of all change anything in the present structure of our laws and much less adopt Sharia.

2) Which is it on one hand you want to reassure us that there is no attempt to impose sharia as a goal, On the other hand you try to reassure us that sharia is just OJm because it is the same as ten commandments.

3) Why do you think an of us would want to go back to those bronze age barbaric laws. There is no stomach for regressing back by 500 years of progress of reason.

4) ten commandments are the most despicable set of rules for anyone to live by. They promote in0group morality and out-group hostility. If we were based on sharia, you people would not be spewing all this nonsense that you are spewing here today. Be glad that we are not under sharia type laws, otherwise you would already be in gallows.

5) How can you in the beginning talk about freedom of religion and at the same time advocate sharia. You are only showing your true colors when you are advocating sharia.

6) Lastly dont condemn the mullah's fatwas from the safety of USA in USA. If you really think those mullahs are irrelevant and if you have balls enough go and condemn them in Saudi, India, & Pakistan and see the kind of hornets nest you would disturbed.

Very good, Dr. Khan. Keep up the good work.

Barak Allah Feek.

Muqtedar,

I managed to break all but one of the ten commandments before I reached puberty, and even day, I manage to break a good portion of them every day before I even get a chance to make a cup of coffee in the morning.

Me and shariah have zero chance of getting along.

WMarkW: "The First Commandment (if implemented by government) completely contradicts our First Amendment."

True and really nothing more needs to be said.

The doctor is a liar. How about the laws of Saudi Arabia? How about the Hudood laws as implemented in Pakistan? How about the family laws biased and tilted against women that are drawn from the Quran? It is absolutely mind boggling that Taqqiya of Muqtedar Khan can be so blatant. Perhaps the ones who are suffering from acute political correctness, multi-culti fever, and moral equivalency will happily accept such obvious lies.

Sarah Palin argued on Bill O'Reilly's show that America's laws should be based on the Ten Commandments because its Constitution is based on it. Good, No Muslim will object to that.

But they should. WMarkW is right - half the Commandments are explicit sectarian doctrine and have no place in the lawmaking of a nonsectarian democracy.

It is a fact that many of the dietary, cleanliness and many of the worship rituals of the Muslim faith are borrowed from Judaism. Also borrowed from Judaism is the supremacist attitude of being “God’s favorites”, and the discrimination against the “other”. They both are “negative”; Thou shall NOT do this and NOT do that. Christianity, on the other hands, and may be others, are “positive”: Do this and DO that. While one of the commandments decree “Thou shall NOT murder” the founder of Christianity commanded his followers to “Do love thine enemies”. When Americans take pride in their Judo-Christian heritage that does not mean that they are ruled by the Ten Commandments and that Judaism and Christianity are one and the same, but that they compliment each other. Regardless, America is ruled by secular laws but the ethics underlying those laws is derived from the Christian faith.

The First Commandment (if implemented by government) completely contradicts our First Amendment.

Neither Kosher nor Sharia law has any place under America's Constitutional system.