The American Quest

JPENNY:

well said!

mark

JPENNY: I enjoyed your comments - hope you can stick around....

You will find out soon enough otherwise should God God not change your heart.

Back to Reality:

Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty, wingy, talking, flying, fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Here we go again.

From Henry, somewhere further up the chain:

"Jeff P's eminently humane post includes this
'keeping to their core message over time might not be considerably advantageous, as more people come to realize that some of that message can be divisive, harmful, hostile to science and reason, and ultimately self-defeating. The "core message," while good for club-membership, is often mutually exclusive of other clubs.'

"Fundamentalist groups with Islam and Protestantism threaten Global survival through
• Terrorism in the name of Religion
• Hostility to Knowledge about Global Warming, Sexual health, Evolution, Scientific Progress

"We need to CHANGE OUR VALUES
so that ANY group that says
WE (the Mormons, Muslims, whatever)
ARE Better/More Important
than THE OTHERS
are recognized to be a Threat to Planetary Survival."

First things first: to equate Mormonism so-called with radical Islam on the basis of a perceived exclusivity is not only ridiculous, it is disingenuous and pernicious. A) the worst thing we do as Mormons, given our belief that what we study and practice is restored Christianity, is try to share it with those around us. B) the worst thing apocalyptic Islam does is murder anyone who disagrees with it in principle or apparent practice. See, that sounds kinda like your final statement there, Hen: that we are somehow a "Threat to Planetary Survival." And here we go round the Shoah-bush again, but on a planetary scale. C) we do not advocate a separate law for us or for non-mormons, but in general manage to keep the law a heckuva lot better precisely because we consider ourselves appropriately subject to legitimate governments, etc, whether we agree or not with all of their policies and practices.

Second: sure, there are mormons among us who get their noses up in the air and/or out of joint. They embarrass themselves and us, but they illustrate, however unfortunately, a fact of which we are more than conscious--our essential humanity. We try our best to get past the baser traits--pride, anger, etc--but we screw up now and then.

But the teaching of the church is not that our membership in it makes us better than those around us. At best it can be said that we have both a greater advantage in metaphysical matters--more at our disposal--and thus a greater responsibility to take advantage of it. We fall short of the lofty objectives more often than not--thank God for Jesus, then. The teaching of the church is also that we spread the word. Why? Because God loves all his children, and so it makes sense that he'd want to offer them as much as possible. They matter to him, we matter to him, and there's no distinction in that regard.

Let me be clear: I don't want you to remain outside, Henry, on the basis of some cockamamie idea that your otherness somehow makes me superior to you. No, I want you inside precisely because I'm not superior to you. In many ways I may well be inferior, so much the better if you hop on the train, take superior advantage of what's available, and do more good than me for more people.

Heck, we don't even believe that a person who isn't interested in our message is damned. We are sorry, but we shrug our shoulders, stay friendly, and hope they are later. Now or during their dirt nap they'll get a fair hearing of it and be free to make up their minds in full consciousness, not in ignorance.

Third:
No terrorism in the name of religion on our part, and an embrace of knowledge of all kinds. Yes, we have some rednecks who refuse to accept certain advances, etc, but this is due more to their politics and/or association with Evangelical homeschooling curricula. We have many more in the sciences themselves, at the forefront of their disciplines, helping generate such knowledge. BYU is 8th in the nation in graduating students who go on to earn PhDs . . . in all the disciplines. Tip of the iceberg.

So trot your screwy analogies out all you want, or make generalizations on the basis of a few wingnuts, but don't start the alarmist landslide to a new and inglorious chapter in post-Enlightenment social programming. Do we really need another bout of social eugenics?

Manaen: I just can't be as patient as you. See? One of my persoal failings.

Thank you for this article!

Just to head it off before someone asks, LDS do NOT believe that we are saved by our works. Rather, salvation is a gift of grace. Only those who fall from grace, denying Christ with a full knowledge of him, will go to hell/"outer darkness". Everyone else will be saved from that fate and go instead to some degree of glory, even those who have no good works.

The value of works is that they can help us become the type of people to whom God will *give* his greater gifts. You described well this change -- or conversion, as Marion G. Romney explained it -- in your posting.

GaryD said:
"The last and only innocent man was crucified 2000 years for making the rest of us look bad as much as anything else. That is modernities ultimate sin - making someone else look bad. Even Modernity is nothing new.

If they were innocent Kind and decent they wouldn't be in hell."

GaryD,

Dude, get real. Nobody's in hell (except in their imagination). The place is a complete myth. It's symbolic at best and good old-fashioned fear-mongering at worst and that only works on children and the ignorant.

yacttb said:
"In the LDS religion, this would never happen. LDS belief is that only those who know/knew Jesus and continue to deny Him are cast out of Heaven. Those who have had no affiliation or introduction to the Gospel will be given an opportunity to know and learn."

OK so for LDS, hell is selective injustice rather than absolute injustice. Point well taken. It makes sense too because why would people who have never heard of Jesus be scared at all by such an obviously empty threat as hell? Score one for LDS.

My apology to Mr. Otterson. I misread his comments regarding the "nones" being non-believers.

Calling the "nones" "non-believers" is the type of judgmental labeling that drove me to believe organized denominations bear more discrimination and exclusion than they are worth. I grew up in Mormon Utah where I was labeled a "Gentile" and worse. The brand of Lutheran Church I was raised in in Ogden was not available in Logan where I went for my undergraduate degree so the Missouri Synod church there excluded me from Communion. I turned to the Newman Center with friends and soon discovered the Catholics excluded me from Christ's table as well.

I became a "none" when I finally became sick and tired of Mormon ethnocentrism, Lutheran and Catholic exclusion and the constant yapping about the Mormons I heard in Utah from relatives and other non-mormons but I am certainly not, as Otterson conveniently labels me, a non-believer.

Otterson would do well to work on the severe ethnocentrism in Utah, Wyoming and Southern Idaho if he indeed aspires to being the mouth peace for a truly "Christian" religion.

It's good that Michael Otterson doesn't go all the way and insist on a linkage between being "profoundly moral" (or even adequately moral) and having "spirituality" or religiosity. Yes, some of the "unchurched" are probably vaguely religious or "spiritual," in the sense of "believing [something] but not belonging. But no one knows how large a segment of the unchurched this is, because being -- or pretending to be -- religious or "spiritual" is still socially preferable in the U.S.A., and respondents have every incentive to lie to pollsters and social science researchers.

But I think Mr. Otterson still concedes too much to the crowd who maintain, without evidence, that one must believe in some supernatural agent in order to be moral.

It's great to see how someone from a different "faith" can admire qualities found in Mormonism. Bishop Krister Stendahl of Sweden explained he has certain rules when comparing religions, and that one of those is to leave room for what he called "holy envy."

I am curious however, to know if there is a misconception that Mormons only help out other Mormons? ARTISTKVIP talked about a Mormo friend who helped him with money and food. I couldn't tell by the tone if he was extolling his friend's virtues, and/or expressing admiration that a Mormon would help someone who wasn't a Mormon.

I am a Mormon, and have always been taught to help everyone that I can. I'm not so sure that I needed to be taught that, however. Yearning to love and help other people is something that comes naturally. When that desire begins to wane, I think it is because we experience hurt and learn to become cynical - but I don't think that's how we begin.

Joseph Smith said that Mormons whould have "charity towards ALL men, and to the household of faith" (D&C 121:45).

I think sometimes we have what one of my religion teachers calls "Spieldberg Syndrome." We're always looking for something new and exciting and feel fulfilled once we have it, even though we're not sure what we learned - or if we even learned anything. Then we move on, hungry for that next exciting moment. We start to become so obsessed and fulfilled by spiritual excitement that we lose track of the quiteness that makes up the majority of a faith-filled and faith-lived life.

Perhaps when people are searching for more exciting faiths, or more fulfilling doctrines, they should look for a religion that maximizes their abilites to serve and love.

Michael Otterson quoted President Hinckley as saying, "The great genius of this church is work. Everybody works. You do not grow unless you work. Faith, testimony of the truth is just like the muscle of my arm. If you use it, it grows strong. If you put it in a sling, it grows weak and flabby. We put people to work. We expect great things of them, and the marvelous and wonderful thing is they come through."

The word that President Hinckley referred to is that of serving other people. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints offers every member and every person wonderful opportunities to serve. As with many things, there is no monopoly on service; people can serve anywhere if they put in the effort. I do know from my experience, however, that service in the Mormon church has enriched my life and the lives of many other people - Mormons and non-Mormons alike.

~ Kurt Manwaring ~
http://mormonconversation.blogspot.com

i enjoyed reading your article and and have noted some of the same truths that you have illuminated.. the most important of which i will echo is that faith is more of an action than a discription of somthing concrete or definable and defifinitely nothing that can be bought with money. i have always admired the fact that your religion actually does missions with thier own time.. i joke that God didn't fight fair with regards to me because he sent beutiful women to knock on my door so of coarse i opened the the door and let them in, thats how i met sisters peterson, eaton and jones in tallahassee, some of the finest human beings i have ever met. i spent some nice hours talking about spirituality and eating some wonderful food with fine people and while i didnt join your church i do respect it. the 3 sisters left with some of my paintings as gifts and have appeared in some of my subsequent artwork. they were not offended by me just being my honest self which as an artist i realize may be different from other people. i met a nice man who was a higher position than my friend who is a bishop in your church and who i used to work for. the man who is a bishop actually fed me lunch when i was hungry and had no money when we were working. people dont forget things like that in real life. the man who actually bolstered my personal faith when he told me the story of joeseph smith being told by God to stand apart from all the other churches and thats kind of how i have always felt about my walk... is to be around and interact with other spiritual people but to have my own path and communications with God of coarse always having someone somewhere to share with to insure i don't fool myself but also knowing that my faith is never imperiled by looking at someone elses it seems towork the other way with shared truths being stronger than truths know alone and tolerence of others a useful charictaristic 4 myself..

The last and only innocent man was crucified 2000 years for making the rest of us look bad as much as anything else. That is modernities ultimate sin - making someone else look bad. Even Modernity is nothing new.

If they were innocent Kind and decent they wouldn't be in hell.

I believe that a spiritual life should continue to evolve. One cannot give one's spiritual life over for another to direct. It, to be truely from the heart and written in the bone must come from a persons life and experiences and not dictated by the dogma and doctrine put down by a large organization for mass digestion. If I can recite your creed but don't feel it is mine, honed out of my own life, what am I professing? Your're thoughts, your religion. The new pope stated that formulation of belief should not be the charge of the masses, but the property of the church who know what you should believe. I see in the church just a man made power struggle.

Hello Freestinker,

You wrote:

"From a supposedly omnipotent and benevolent god, we get hell ... a place where millions of good, innocent, caring people who through no fault of their own have never even heard a single syllable of "the good word" are sent to burn in eternal damnation?"

In the LDS religion, this would never happen. LDS belief is that only those who know/knew Jesus and continue to deny Him are cast out of Heaven. Those who have had no affiliation or introduction to the Gospel will be given an opportunity to know and learn.

Take Care...

PS
my response to jeff was in regard to *non-mormon* protestant evangelical groups.

Hi Parker

You may remember that I find the Mormon attitude towards "eternal torment" quite benign.

One of the things I most appreciated as a Mormon growing up was that the church DID NOT emphasize fear and punishment, A good aspect of Mormon heaven was that it WAS something positive to strive for, and the good side of evangelicism is that we Mormons wanted to share our blessings with the rest of the world.

And I essentially agree with your Darwin / Emerson point as well.

Cheers
HJ

Henry James,
One of the most important concepts in Mormonism is that it relegates the idea of "eternal torment" (more a state of mind than anything else, since we're talking about spirits without bodies) to a temporary condition that in essence says, "thoughts, actions, and behaviors have consequences, but change is possible for everyone."

I liked what Jeff P. quoted from Mark Twain, but with the understanding that whatever heaven (or its opposite) we are making of our life right now is by our own choice and is what we will get, basically, under the law of restoration--with the added insight that we can change how we live and what we are experiencing. We can have a bit of heaven today and tomorrow by how we live or how we change. That's also what I like about Darwin and Thoreau and Emerson: they saw that, too.

Alex,

Thank you for your posts and particularly this sentence. "It requires as much faith to believe that you can obtain salvation by maintaining religious diversification as it does to find salvation in an overt organized religion. There is no religious safety zone for the uncommitted." It has really gotten me thinking.

Alex,

God being God does not have "pretty wingie thingies" serving it. That would be in direct opposition to the all powerful Singularity.

But hey if you want to believe in tinkerbells and tooth fairies, knock yourself out. At least you are not required to believe in them as are Muslim friends are. Hmmm, but if are Mormon, I assume you are required to believe in the pretty thingie and golden horn blower called Moroni. Afterall, no Moroni, no Mormonism.

And please invite the rest of us in your next "communing" with All Powerful!!!!!

complexity:

A little enforcement of "truth in advertising" law would work wonders in solving the "threaten the children with hell fire" tactic. Only religion demands and gets no cross examination of witnesses and no cross appraisal of evidence. Sooner or later some poor soul is going to show up in court claiming permanent damage by being threatened with hell fire while still just a child. That will be followed by a tidal wave of law suits based upon "truth in advertising" law. It's the American way.

http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul is there for the defense attorneys to study. How can they deny that Moses was a murderer by any standard? What did the Egyptian overseer do that required the use of lethal force? And, of course, what kind of supernatural being comes to the aid of killers on the run? Did God intend the Jews to be the master race? Is Jericho not a case of genocide? That's just to mention a few "hard" questions that are begging to be asked.

Need I mention that hell is the greatest terror ever conceived by man? Don't the rash of anti terrorist laws actually outlaw religions as terrorist organization terrorizing anyone they can and especially children with threats of severe bodily harm for not doing what is demand to avoid being set on fire to burn forever and ever?

The PEW report is just the tip of the iceberg. Religions have taken liberties that go well beyond acceptable. What all those religion hoppers are finding out is that one is a sick as the other.

Freestinker opines:
"his hell you speak of sounds more like the ultimate injustice to me! I'm sure glad it's just a silly fear-mongering tactic rather than a real place."

Quite right,
but is lots more serious than silly to the billions of humans who have been seriously psychologically damaged by this Fear-mongering over the centuries,

and for the societies who have suffered through phenomena like the Inquisition and the Crusades as believers attempted to annililate their fears.

Gary seems a good example of the delight (hate) some believers take in relishing sinners being damned to hell and gnashing of teeth for all time.

GaryD said: "Sorry you find a belief in the existence of ultimate justice offensive. After all that is all that hell is. A place of Ultimate justice."

Ultimate injustice is what I find most offensive about hell.

From a supposedly omnipotent and benelovent god, we get hell ... a place where millions of good, innocent, caring people who through no fault of their own have never even heard a single syllable of "the good word" are sent to burn in eternal damnation?

This hell you speak of sounds more like the ultimate injustice to me! I'm sure glad it's just a silly fear-mongering tactic rather than a real place.

It seems to me that anticipation is a very large part of religious belief and/or religious faith - so forget the here and now. It's what comes later that counts - and that future day of reckoning is grim indeed for stubborn non-believers. Ok, we've been warned - again.

Anticipation, being typically at it's highest level in childhood, is generally tempered to a considerable degree by thoughtful reason and life experience in the later years.....but not so among true believers.

Is it any wonder that thoughtful people reject religion and fundamentalism in particular out of hand?? This kind of nonsense is more apropo of trying to finnagle good behavior out of small children - the punishment for sinners and non-believers being a bit more extreme here, of course.

Hellfire and brimstone is a pretty good scare tactic until maybe the age of 8 or 10, and then half-way intelligent humans want more. Fundamentalism is never up to the job.

Thus, people willingly remain children in the realm of religious metaphysics for a lifetime.

Not only that, they're often arrogantly proud of the fact. Like I said, is it any wonder ...........??

You almost got everyone with:

"Switching from faith to faith or describing oneself as “unchurched” is not the same as dropping out of religion or spirituality altogether. These “nones” are not non-believers. They may well consider themselves to be spiritual, or religious. They may be profoundly moral. They just don’t identify with a particular church. They are the religious equivalent of political independents, who may lean one way or another depending on how relevant they find the message. And so we have a religious landscape that is complex and unusual, if not unique, in the world."

I'm sure glad De Tocqueville said it and wrote it out in typewriting so we know it's absolutely so. Now if it had been anyone else or written by hand...

You left out those millions who realize all religions faith Devil calling Him God. There's plenty of room in heaven for them and the innocents like atheists.

Was that God in the burning bush? http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul Does that have anything to do with recent weak faith bonds?

Maybe folks subconsciously realize the Bible is the word of Devil and keep hoping the next "faith" will be different -like share croppers that move to a new landlord every spring. The move is always done with great enthusiasm that soon turns to more disillusionment. Same sort of thing happening with faith?

All faiths operate missions don't they? Mormons have come to my door just like Jehovah Witnesses with free samples trying to hook me. That probably has a little something to do with it -kinda like spouse stealing?

Mormons go out of their way to help each other economically don't they? I know a couple of converts myself that did it for the help with business and employment. That's a good thing except it's illegal under the civil rights act -called discrimination. Irish/Italian Catholics patented that, (NYPD, NYFD, etc) so don't be surprised when you get sued for infringement as well as the government with a civil rights rap.

Religions are governments. Most all are modeled after the old USSR style of government with a central controlling body of some kind that rules with an iron fist. Small wonder folks try to escape and with religious freedom Americans are on the move looking for better. Noticing that the God of record is actually the biggest Devil of them all, Lucifer has made a sizable hole in the iron curtain like wall that holds people in faith. Don't you expect that's the number one or soon to be number one cause of folks declining to identify with a particular church?

Unlike the pope, the president of the Mormon church is selected from many candidates in a free election? The pope is elected by the central committee. You probably knew that. Do you know who elected Billy Graham to the office of "America's pastor"? I missed voting in that election myself.

"These 'nones' are not non-believers. They may be profoundly moral."

The unstated predicate to the above quoted passage is extremely tenuous and inflammatory. Non-belief does not equal immorality.

Concerned:

"Nice blue sky thinking but far, far from the reality of life. A simple "pretty wingie thingie" analysis shows that!!! "

Suit yourself. You have given me no reason to believe that you know anything more about the realities of life than I do.

It is my experience that God does respond when we ask. I have communed with God enough not to put it past God to personally visit or send angels.

Interesting comments, and an interesting subject that I think has some unusual ramifications that can be explored. A word that can be used to describe many Americans is "discontented". They may feel "something is missing from life now versus how life should be"--whether they are looking at their own life or looking across the world or the country. As they try and find what will resolve that discontentedness, they use hundreds, thousands of different methods or possible answers, but they do something--they "take a whack at it", using short-run or long-run approaches. They seek solutions, answers--whether by trying to change the world or their personal circumstances.

I think these kinds of feelings, which have been notable since this country was formed and really had birth during the Renaissance, are part of the awakening that is a prelude to a peaceful time to come in our modern world. Religious discontentedness is very much a part of that process, and may lead in many different directions, which is a good thing, as Jeff P. noted.

I don't personally feel discontented about my religion, certainly not about its leadership especially since 1978 and the prelude to that important year. But what I do feel fascinated about is to watch and try to participate in helping advocate solutions to problems that preserve personal agency, strong families including recognizing the vital role of parents, and freedoms from oppressive or coercive leadership, and see the process unfold across the world in a very bumpy sort of way.

Some of what we see in our world today (such as tribalism in Africa and the Middle East, and the strength of America) was predicted so well by Darwin that I see him as one of those "seekers" who was discontented and tried to expand his horizons and help others expand theirs, and captured some essences of truth in inspired ways.

So my take on this subject is that the current religious discontentedness is a good thing, and is predictable from the scriptures as well as from prescient people like Darwin and De Tocqueville, and will lead to positive changes in the world--after some rough spots, to be sure.

I'm glad to be able to both observe and participate, and learn patience in that my discontedness of what I would wish could be the timetable for such change is because I don't see the big picture. The world will get there--whether by Darwin's "method" of gradual change with some upheavals along the way, or by a continual great awakening that is slowly spreading across the world.

Sorry for the long post. Peace, all, and adieu, with heartfelt wishes for your happiness.

Sorry you find a belief in the existence of ultimate justice offensive. After all that is all that hell is. A place of Ultimate justice.

Sorry, "beliefs" is the word...

JAC

The report titled “U.S. Religious Landscape Survey", by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, says:

"Sixteen percent of American adults say they are not part of any organized faith, which makes the unaffiliated the country’s fourth-largest "religious group".

This is the group with higher growth.

The study also says: "Contrary to assumptions that most of the unaffiliated are atheists or agnostics, most described their religion “as nothing in particular".

This is good news. The problem is not spirituality or personal believes. The major problem is the affiliation: "only my religion is the universal truth, believe or go to hell".

The best for all,

JAC

Richard Miller,

Americans and the other global citizens would find a lot more peace if they gave up their odd superstitions like belief in angels (aka tinkerbells and fairies), devils (aka demons of the demented), blood and bread conversion, flying camels/chariots and sacred cows.

Barry Schwartz, in The Paradox of Choice, says the huge increase in choices and decisions in our modern age has made us worse off. We have an overwhelming number of options when shopping for jeans, a car, or a religion. He suggests that autonomy is good only to a point; we also long for structure and constraints.

"For people who have experienced religion more as a source of oppression than of comfort, guidance, and support, freedom of choice in this area is surely a blessing. They can elect the denomination that is most compatible with their view of life, then select the particular institution that they feel best embodies that view. They can pick and choose from among the practices and teachings that seem to suit them best, including, paradoxically, the choice of conservative denominations that are attractive in part because they limit the choices people face in other parts of their lives." (p. 40)

"What seems to be the most important factor in providing happiness is close social relations. People who are married, who have good friends, and who are close to their families are happier than those who are not. People who participate in religious communities are happier than those who do not." (p. 107)

I believe people indeed appreciate structure and order. The high schooler who has decided not to drink or smoke doesn't have to re-decide each time he's offered alcohol or tobacco.

Americans might find the peace they've wanted by returning more fully to religion.

Alex,

Nice blue sky thinking but far, far from the reality of life. A simple "pretty wingie thingie" analysis shows that!!!

Concerned:

"The answer is simple, the "pew sitters" and "bowers" are becoming more aware of the flaws in the founders and foundations of religion and no longer accept the myths, embellishments and lies associated with these religions."

As they do this, they also become less aware of the myths, embellishments and lies associated with their own soul as they try to justify their own acts by picking out the perceived faults of others.

Some fancy themselves as a permanent "observers", who can stand dispassionately above the fray dictating to people who are overt about their religion how limited they are in their thinking. This idea that people can stand ABOVE religion by being an "observer" or a "seeker" is a bit naive anyway. EVERYONE has a religion and does a varying amount of seeking, even the "scientists".

We are all neck deep in our religion. You too. All that anybody can do is to do the best he can to hold to as much of what is good as is possible. If holding on to more good brings a person to organized religion, then a person should not be afraid to do it.

Regardless, we will be accountable for what we have become. It requires as much faith to believe that you can obtain salvation by maintaining religious diversification as it does to find salvation in an overt organized religion. There is no religious safety zone for the uncommitted. We must do the best we can to seek out God and follow him in this life.

Why are many of us dropping our orthodox affiliation and becoming persons with religious reservations, secularists or atheists??

The answer is simple, the "pew sitters" and "bowers" are becoming more aware of the flaws in the founders and foundations of religion and no longer accept the myths, embellishments and lies associated with these religions.

B. Thomas;

Thanks for picking up and pointing out the slip. It is being corrected.

MO

"President Gordon B. Hinckley, who until he passed away early in February at the age of 97..."

President Hinckley passed away January 27th.

Mormon Tribe or Human Tribe? Can the Planet Survive Tribalism

Jeff P's eminently humane post includes this
"keeping to their core message over time might not be considerably advantageous, as more people come to realize that some of that message can be divisive, harmful, hostile to science and reason, and ultimately self-defeating. The "core message," while good for club-membership, is often mutually exclusive of other clubs."

Fundamentalist groups with Islam and Protestantism threaten Global survival through
• Terrorism in the name of Religion
• Hostility to Knowledge about Global Warming, Sexual health, Evolution, Scientific Progress

We need to CHANGE OUR VALUES
so that ANY group that says
WE (the Mormons, Muslims, whatever)
ARE Better/More Important
than THE OTHERS
are recognized to be a Threat to Planetary Survival.

"Students of religion have noted that the religious organizations that continue to grow and show stability are those that:

• Maintain a moral anchor in the face of shifting moral and family values.
• Keep to their core message over time.
• Require the most of their members.
• Have a well-defined sense of community."

I would suggest that:

--shifting moral and family values is precisely a necessary ingredient for the survival of any modern religion. One can't read the "good book" without being appalled at the morals and values one finds there, on the whole. Thank goodness those have shifted individually and categorically, due to enlightenment principles.

--keeping to their core message over time might not be considerably advantageous, as more people come to realize that some of that message can be divisive, harmful, hostile to science and reason, and ultimately self-defeating. The "core message," while good for club-membership, is often mutually exclusive of other clubs.

--Requiring the most of membership isn't all that specific to religion, but is a necessary ingredient to any successful club. Additionally, the sense of "community" is also club membership, albeit a large membership (if one considers an entire religion as a whole.)

"Disintegrating societal and familial ties and a profound sense of “not belonging” pervade America, and churches can offer a home for restless souls."

--it's true. However it doesn't mean that the "core message" has any relevance or truth, aside from the universal "truths" that exist in functioning societies. Christianity (in particular, when all other is distilled out of it) has one central core message: believe, or burn in hell forever.

Mark Twain had it right when he described the "first visit" by God to mankind as having brought religion, and the "second visit" by God to mankind as having brought hell.

The Mormon Faith illustrates some of the more interesting strains and strengths of religion.

Undoubtedly, the strong sense of community in the Mormon Church owes the most to
WOKK, the amount of time and effort members spend supporting the activities of the church.
This certainly leads to commitment.

The cohesion and strength of the community, reinforeced by stricly codified "articles of faith,"

also leads to a High Degreee of Obedience to Authority,
and Relatively strong sanctions from ones family and old friends if one deciees to "leave the faith."

Mr Otterson is probably corrcct that the increasing mobility of modern society, and the increasing interaction with people from other cultures, weakens people's allegiance to the religion of their birth,
especially a religion like Mormonism that claims to be the ONLY way to the optimal salvation in the next world.

It's hard to hold on to that belief when you see 20 other religions making the same claim. They can't ALL be right.

Excellent thoughts, Mike. Thanks for sharing them. It is, indeed, good for people to be "anxiously engaged in a good cause."

-Allen