Our Real Obligation to Afghanistan

Hello Edbyronadams,

"Do you have a point here? Do we have a moral obligation to suffer as many innocent deaths as those we make war upon?"

Why, yes, I thought it was fairly clear. And it was clearly not that we are somehow obligated to share equally in numbers of dead... What a curious bit of rules of warfare that would be. But this is not rules of warfare but moral obligations to a 'conquered' nation and peoples.

We bombed howdeedoo out of the country, it's infrastructure to economy, and removed the government and leadership, (this, a blessing!). Inserted our own vision of that, to varying degrees of effectiveness and purity, depending on who you talk to. (and so, how's that Karzai!)

We may not be obligated to bringing Afghanistan into the 21st century, but we do have a moral obligation and a national security and interest obligation to leave that country with effective leadership and a way forward.

Your comment of distrusting the Afghani peoples ability to self govern is understood, but then we have our own governing story, and that has taken us through Afghanistan and deep into Iraq, with overtures tossed around about Iran. Part of my point, which seem to have been illusive to you, is that our governing caused us to attack not just the Afghan strongholds of Al Qaida but through all of Afghanistan and then into Iraq. OUR governing is suspect, and WE are the real exporters and perpetrators of the deaths of innocents. You would blame Talibani allowance of terrorist operators in that country for the woes of war, and perhaps the corrupt regime of Saddam and our convenient military force just next door for Iraq's fall. Yet you do not perceive any moral imperative required by our own actions that brought on the death of and deaths in those countries?

We were not, and still are not, the "liberators" that your Bush government assured us we would be. Yet our leadership instructed our military and we have on that road killed a boatload of innocents.

Everyone is responsible for the actions that they as individuals and as collectives take. Responsibility is not erased if 'first blood' is taken by another.

And what defines first blood, anyway? It can go way back... Hatfields and McCoys.

The weight of destruction America has wrought as a result of 9/11 far outweighs, in lives and financial loss and cultural destruction and on, the original insult. Cause and effect, karma and dharma, there is a resultant response to our deeds.

Even those done at 30,000 feet, and even if done in a state of justifiable vengeance...

"Bet we killed one hell of a bigger bucketload of innocents by our moves, eh Edbyron?"

We killed more innocents in Vietnam, Korea, Japan and Germany than we suffered as well. Do you have a point here? Do we have a moral obligation to suffer as many innocent deaths as those we make war upon?

As far as I'm concerned, I want us out of Afghanistan now and let them govern themselves once again by their 7th century norms, When we leave, we must notify that if they again use their territory to launch attacks, we will bomb them back into the 5th century from 30,000 feet.

Even if it were possible or desired by the Afghanis, we have no obligation to bring them into the 21st century.

Hello Edbyronadams,

"They governed themselves right into allowing terrorists to use their territory to stage attacks on us. How much should we respect that?"

OK. And we governed ourselves into bombing the bleeding hell out of all of Afghanistan, not just the Al Qaida terrorists, and then governed ourselves straight into Iraq so that we can save ourselves from phantom WMD's and spread the Good Word of America.... Just about the whole of our free Congress threw up an aye, for an eye.

Bet we killed one hell of a bigger bucketload of innocents by our moves, eh Edbyron?

Further, one could argue that the 'people' of Afghanistan did not have much of a say, direct or muted, in the actions of the government. Indeed, there was little if any effective central government, and it was regional and tribal and run by warlords since, essentially, before the Soviet invasion and certainly after it.

So, giving the people an effective way to govern themselves seems a far more likely way for that culture to evolve toward self containment and normalization. Are we doing a great job with Hamid Karzai or what?...

Oh yes, excuse the christo-islamists hate. Never mind that the buddhists and Hindu and Hopi, don't kill CENTURY AFTER CENTURY of their history. It is a human fault that I kill you over and over again, you sinful idolators. Don't you see, the communists do it too, it must be OK for us to do it to you.

What an ignorance of history an false mono-ideology can cause a man to see.

I know a demon god will celebrate your arrival into the hell of your own making. I hope you enjoy that time with you savior and then, on being reborn, join the human race looking to worship Truth beyond names.

hariaum

"If we really desire freedom for the people of Afghanistan, we will not make the same mistakes, but defend the rights and dignity of the oppressed and respect the rights of the Afghani people to govern themselves."

They governed themselves right into allowing terrorists to use their territory to stage attacks on us. How much should we respect that?