Women, It's OK Not to Be Pastors

Sorry, but http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/?p=857 simply doesn't hold water.

Arguing that Jesus's selection of 12 men is a 'fundamental reason' that the church 'can't' ordain women could just as easily be used to argue the church can't ordain Africans since none of the original apostles were Africans.

It's fine to argue that you aren't really sexist - just don't expect anyone with an ounce of common sense to believe it.

if anyone is interested in reading my particular denomination's response as to why women cannot be ordained clergy - here is an article which begins the discussion, and links to a book which is a resource for anyone interested.

http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/?p=857

Jody - the body has many parts. we're not all feet, or arms, or heads. There needs to be structure. Not sure if you've considered that it was tradition, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, helped form the very book you were just quoting.

Mr Maher,

You are saying it is God's will, and not the clergy, that Women not be allowed to serve as ordained ministers. Sorry, but I am not buying this, nor am I letting the leaders of those faiths that still hold to that prohibition off the hook.

No wonder there are so many atheists today! With all the religious people putting words in God's mouth.

"Leadership in the church is not about leading a congregation. It is about leading where you are in your life right now, and being satisfied with where God has you. It is also about being satisfied with who you are - as a man, or a woman. There are unique gifts and callings to both sides."

"Unique gifts and callings" certainly goes down easier than its earlier incarnation: "separate but equal."

It's not about civic and religious leadership being one in the same. It's about the church truly being the body of Christ, in whom there is "neither male nor female" (Gal. 3:28), and being led by the Holy Spirit, through whom our "sons and daughters shall prophesy" (Acts 2:17). Distinctions and hierarchies of Christian service based on gender are humans' doings, not God's.

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Hello {World} either Vote for Legislate from the Jesus Pulpit or the Bench?

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Before "i" Begin & 'drop a Bomb' on the McCain's of Worms,

And also Something ON them Many Many FREUDiANT Slips of Genuine Prophecy's from yestarday RNC:

ASk Citizen McCain: How Many People did ye Napalm John??? Do ye want to see Pictures of your Victim(s) Mr. Wannabe Prez, Citizen McCain?? Well

Here is your Aero-Plane & your child Victims Live: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev2dEqrN4i0

S C H A M E! S C H A M E! S C H A M E! S C U M M! There is nothing to Boast nor Proud about!!

Fact: HiSTORY is O.U.R. JURY & EVERYBODY's Biz!" John McCAiN is a looser!

ViETNAM was & is a LOOSiNG WAr! WE Lost It U.S.! Do not be in denial to selves or others America!
Question: Where is BiN LADEN & His Lamps, Mr. Citizen CAiN/BUSH Evangelicals??

-- AMAZiNG () No Grace!

Hello CONSCientious Objector(s), aka PEACE LOVERS, not WAR MONGERS!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector

Wow: "i" as a Diplomatic Historian lover, am awrae, not most, that "To Tell a BiG Lie" , during a campaign , and HOPE? the-People will buy/bite it, is one sneakarooish Weapon that them "Thomas's Promis's" candidates (Satans dressed in Secular Garb & work undercover in a Secular Government as Employees) like self Agrandizing McCain's , et al, want ye to Believe!

Note: As a victim ( whom germany's Catholic HiTLER & Georgian (russias Enemy now) Catholic STALiN Mass murdered "i" Kin) AND , as a Young Lad , attending MiLiTARY HiGH SCHOOL ("i" was a Cub & Boy Scout too) , That

"i" hath suddenly Became a Passionate CONSCiENTiOUS OBJECTOR meself. And Yes, "i" attended thee WOOD STOCK. Yes, "i" still step on cackaroaches when need too, So does that make me a Commy, Anti-American, Anti-Jezues , anti-Establishment, anti-Feds, ant-LiFE or Nature etc..???

Ps: Besides cunning SARA Palin sounding "ANTi-U.S. SUPREME COURT..., that madam Cindy McCain, last night Sounded very "LIBERTARiAN" when saying , "Let's Keep the Federal Government out of Ye Lives" [similar slipped]. What a FLOOZY!

Fact: important note: Cindy McCains Family Owe a Alchol & Beverage Spirits (not godly stuff) Business. They Hath Many HiGHWAy DEATHS on Their Hands. And Most are Teenagers or Young Adults! They are EViL Pushers whom sell to the 'Others' but do not consume such themselves!

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interesting observation: According to the 2 most important Judeo-JU's, At last nights RNC , "i" noticed & observed the Presence "Henry Kissenger" (The Israeli Arch Evangelical loving Armageddon Lobbyist,who should've retired, but is a Republican Vintriloquist.

Note: He also sat next to Bush @ the Biejing Olympics) and the 'Turn-Coat" Wannabe political addicted & desperate brown nose "LiEBERMAN" (the Israeli Arch Lobbyist & also Evilgelical Armageddon Lover og John HAGEE et al) ; is Proof, that "the JEWiSH LOBBY", not ZiONiST LoBBY, controls All those, Rabbi Jesus Loving U.S. Governors , whom spoke evily at the RNC.

Ps: They , Sour Sour Americans(?) want to Provoke & Spin a WAR with Sweet Sweet RUSSia! Note: These so called "Judeo-JU's, forgot that Russia Saved 'MOST' of Them who are living Today. And so, ISRAEL should Pay RUSSia Back Every Penny that that Russia, not America, invested to House them, Educate them, Feed Them, Employ Them (Socialism or Not).

And it was Judeo-Catholic POLANDers who Ratted-out & turned-in them Judeo-Ju's!. Fact: They did that to "i" grand Parents!
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Last night (at the RNC) and after the End of McCain's Speech, that on Chanel PBS-13, someone left the MIcrophone open & ye can hear someone, on Stage, invoking , that 'imported' JUDEO-JU made into a Judeo-Christ, Rabbi "JEZEUS"s Name to help Win the McCain & Palin Ticket!?? Wow! What Dangerous PRE-APOCALYPTARiAN's (Anti-SECULARist) Nationals indeed!

Note: Besides Wanabe Tom RiGE, an Evangelical Jesusus Lover too, that unfortunately The U.S. HOME-LAND-SECURiTY Dept. is Run by them Evangelicals. And anyone 'outside' of their 'Tax-Exempt' Organization (as if be a genuine institution) will be Targetted via George Nixon/Reagan/BUSH(s) EXECUTiVE ORDER #12333.

Please see: http://www .michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/index.php?id=12003 an unamerican Pretext to spy on non Evangelical-Nationals.

iMPORTANT: The SOUTH's secret-Mascot is Revi & god Player (Imported icon & not our G-D or fella) Mr. Rabbi JEZEUS Yashua Christo is in fact Anti-Family & Anti-Humanity & Anti-Nature & Anti-Business & a Jealous-person (zero god), is a Evil person:

If Ye not Beliveth "i" then Pleasea America, see Any-Imported Bible @ LUKE:14:26 & @ LUKE:12:51 et seq. And also that imported (not Made in America) most Evil Story ever Told; the "DRUNKiN [Racist] Noah Story, et seq. Note: Suddenly an import is being Exported & re-Bottled as id U.S.A. Made! SCHAME Pre-Apocalyptic thinking Evangelical-NATiONalis!

And For This Reason, the EVANGELiCAl (mostly Southerners & red necks) WHITE GANG {whom Own, by Satans Tricks, Usuray & theivery, like the Nepotistic BUSH's , 75% of all the Wealth here & many stakes & prongs abroad via U.S. Tax Payers Dollar Addiction } are Jealous of the NORTHERNERS. (the Real Mixed & Assimilated Americans/Inheritors, not Southern/Red-Neck middle class & higher TRASH!!

Please knowth that ARMAGEDDON Lover & Religio Jealous Psychotic & Situational-Lyer" ,Satans Puppet, and wannbe cunning Prez, John McCAiN, is a PANAMANian-Citizen, not born in America!

JOHN McCAiN is un-American! Why? Because my 'FRiEND' Citizen McCain became a Prisoner, while on a MASS MURDEREiNG Bombing Run instruction from his own Father [hence why his dad was a misserable AlcoHolic {too many night mares to escape} , but not biblioholic like his john Jr today], knowingly & heartlessly happily went to mass kill CIViLiANS too via his Own Choice.

Note an Important Freudian Slip as FACT: Citizen McCain a Worms, "SiTUATiONALY LiED" about 2-two things:

1) That "I Drew a 'Four-Way-Totem-Pole' , aka CROSS, on the Sand" story, is a illusional & Dillusional exagerated as his Biblio Psychotic Storys. Note: John knoweth that Dead-Men do not talketh And

2) That "I was Tortured & SOLiTARY CONFiNEment false Story , is another one of His (their) vintriloquized Storys!

Ps: "i" hath Document, from ex-Vietcong 'Correction-Officers' , who interfaced with Citizen McCain, whom saith that under the GENEVA CONVENTiON, on handling War Prisoners, was honored to the 'T'! that 'No Table, No... is a Crock of 1/2 Truths! aka Tantamounbt to a Outright LIE! Wow! It's worse that when HiLLAry CLiNTON exagerated that 'Sniper Story'!

ASk Citizen McCain: How Many People did ye Napalm John??? Do ye want to see Pictures of your Victim(s) Mr. Wannabe Prez, Citizen McCain?? Well ????

S C H A M E! S C H A M E! S C H A M E! S C U M M!

There is nothing to Boast nor to be Proud about, Mr. citizen , of Panamanian, McCain & followers to HELLLLLL, if there is such a pertgatory state!

Note: Atleast 'Barry' OBAMA was born in Awaii!

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Trivia: Did Ye Knowth That ALASKA is on [stolen?] "RUSSiAN-Land"?

Pleazzze Evangelical AMERiCA, ye must Sell Back ,Alaska, to Russia for Violation of the "CZARiST NICHOLAS DOCTRiNE", aka the "GORBACHEV DOCTRiNE" for Violating the Terms of the 'ALASKA PURCHASE" of 1867.

iMagine Violating Americas own so called "MONROE DOCTRiNE!??

iNCAMERA(secret),

And Did Ye Knowth, that Governor "SARA" (Biblicaly speaking, is Abraham's Sister & wife as the character who is in fact a PROSTiTUTE, hence mother of Harlots) PALiN's Great Grand Parents , via IDAHO & the Plains, hath "Mass Murdered" [HOLOCAUSTED] AMERiCAn NATiVE Indians in the early & mid 1800's? Interesting: 'SARA" Palins two(2) 'WiKEPEDiA" sites [135kb & 276kb] Does Not Mention her PARENTS nor Grand Parents Mass Murdering Anscestory!??????? And

Did Ye Knowth, Today Genuine , NATiVE, KLONDiKEers, aka ALASKANS abORiGiNALs(not Europeans, not Afrikans etc..) are quietly treated as 2nd rate Citizenz (limited in 'White-Man's" Evilgelical Government)!??? Ever See how 'Fat' & alcholically troubled they (abORiGiNY's) are, as a Group?? They (Native Americans Arizonians etc..) are biggest customers for John McCain & cindy's Brewery's!

Note again: John McCains Wife Cindy is a forgetfull Floozy. aka idiot sevant!

Amazing () No Grace!

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PROPHECY: It is Not 2nd woman as VP Sara PALiN(s) time to be a vPrez! Nor is it destiny for wannabe General John McCains time to be Prez! Not even Next Time in 2013+. Instead:

VOTE HiLLARY CLiNTON for Prez & Col. Besevitch for Vprez 2012!

Note: When Brethren OBAMA & BiDEN's become Prez's, that the EXPERiENCED Ex Prez Clintons, ex Vp Gores, Ex prez Carters , Darling kennedy's etcc., will guide them. So Fear not America, Ye are still in Good Hands!

Note: Big Mouth , ex Prosecutor & Word Merchant Psych, accident Mayor Rudolph Giuliani [an anti-EC{LATARiAN}], himself did not have any-EXPERiENCE when he naively took office.So Who did He (Rudy tooty fruity boy) Rely On on governing? Yes, Ex Mayors, Ex Governers Politico's Honcho's etc..! Wow! White Calling Kettle Black!??

Wow, Like Citizen McCain, Citizen Giuliani is attempting to Capitalize on WAR, that They Provoked (Republican MAFiOS'os of America & their Partners in Crime, the U.S. Evilgelical Churche's Leaders; Worse than COMMUNiSTS!).

Question: is there something , in the ANALYSES, above , aka FREUDiAN SLiPS of Genuine Prophecies", that Ye hath not Understanded!???

Amazing () No GRACE!

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Paid For by the "EC{LAT}ARiAN" NATiONALiS on Space-Ship Earth & Jointly ajoined with the "JO{KTAN}-iOn-PARTY, U.S.A. for GRiDARiAN-DEMOCRACY & TRANSFiNiTE CiViLiZATiON, HEALiNG OF NATiON(s), GLOBAL-PEACE & more 2013+.

I see two arguments in your response: 1) the church and government are different, therefore we can justify any discrimination in the church, and not have to provide a reason for it, 2) women should be happy with what they've been given by the church.

Neither of these are an explanation as to why a woman should not be allowed to lead a church. Until you can provide one, it is clearly hypocritical to say women are fit for one role, but not another, just because we say so.

It ahs been my observation that there are only two things men can do that women cannot - produce sperm and urinate standing up. And in a pinch, this woman can do the latter - I can't write my name in the process, but I've never really thought of voiding my bladder as an artistic pursuit anyway.

There are only thwo things women can do that men cannot - carry/give birth to a baby and lactate.

None of the skills listed above are necessary in order to effectively lead a country or a church. Personally, I would never even consider membership in a religious organization that does not ordain women. In fact, the person I consider my pastor is a retired UU minister who also happens to be a lesbian.