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No truly good acts?
Q: Is there good without God? Can people be good without God? How can people be good, in the moral and ethical sense, without being grounded in some sort of belief in a being which is greater than they are? Where do concepts such as good and evil, right and wrong, come from if not from religion? From where do you get your sense of good and evil, right and wrong?
Yesterday as I was headed home from work I watched a auto/bike accident happen right in front of me. The driver of the car did not give sufficient warning that she was turning into a driveway on a busy street. The cyclist though was a bit too close to the many cars in the flow of traffic. It was a classic San Francisco cycling/traffic scene. Though the cyclist and his bike did end up getting run over, it was clear that neither he nor the bike seemed too damaged. As far as I could tell, no one else witnessed the scene since I was the last vehicle in the line of traffic and it happened just in front of me. I braked briefly and then went on unsure of what I could do and also seeing that the cyclist seemed OK. After all, I had two sick kids under the age of three (one who may have H1N1 flu) awaiting my care at home. As I drove on, I rethought it and turned around to make my way back to the scene. I thought that though it was a small thing, it was the right thing -- the good thing -- to double-check that he was OK and to offer myself as a witness given the situation and the chance it came to an insurance claim or even a legal case.
Why did I do this? Was it guilt? Was it altruism? Am I truly wired to be good? Going back to Kant (and probably much earlier) the argument has been made that there is no real altruism. Even when we do something that appears altruistic, we are doing it because we somehow want payback, recognition, fear of consequences (maybe from God) if we don't, or worry about a guilty conscience. (Read SUPERFREAKONOMICS for a thorough and entertaining discussion of this issue brought up to date.
But I disagree with Kant and others who say that there is no real altruism. I think that we are actually made to be good. Whether one believes God made us that way (read Archbishop Tutu, for example) or we simply are built that way by other non-personal natural forces such as the raw survival of our DNA does matter, but that's a different debate. The important thing is that effect these acts of goodness have on real people's lives does matter, whether God is behind them or not. Would the historical Jesus have said what he said to the accusers of the woman caught in adultery (John 8, actually, I am not sure scholars think that scene was historical, but...) if he had not seen himself as representing God's way? I am not sure, but I sure want to believe he would have.
Though it seems weird to me that there is actually a chaplaincy built around humanism (seems like a category mistake such as having an MD of economics or a JD of kinesiology ), it doesn't mean the issue is weird. Hopefully the chaplaincy stirs a lot of important discussion and helps lots of students think through the issues. And it is a great issue especially in times where there is a huge amount of misinformation about atheism, religious belief and practice and a lot of speechifiers on all sides.
I have not yet read chaplain Greg Epstein's book, "Good Without God," and I look forward to doing so. (Though I should confess that we saw this author's proposal very early and gave him our thoughts before his agent eventually sold it.) It is a perennial and great issue which I expect to stir some higher quality debate than some that happened after the atheists laid down heir very lacking gauntlets. Let's hope.
By
Mark Tauber
|
October 27, 2009; 2:48 PM ET
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Posted by: Mark Tauber | November 2, 2009 11:33 AM
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Fortunately for the world, science has successfully undermined the simpleminded religions - the Abrahamic cults, mainly Christianity and Islam.
Christianity and Islam have had a good 2000 year run preying on ignorance and the ignorant. This ended for Christianity in Europe with the development of science. It is now looking for the ignorant and uneducated in Africa and South America.
Islam - a strange combination of ignorance and intolerance - has been picking the lowest lying fruit for a 1000 years as apparent in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Now is the time for science, logic, and deeper & truer spirituality - not supremacist, intolerant cults like Christianity and Islam that proselytize and force their views on others. This results in conflict, violence, and suffering.
Now is the time for Vedanta & Hinduism. After 1000 years of anti-Hindu propaganda, many are not prepared to hear the wisdom or absorb the deep & complex monistic philosophy which is consistent with science. Now is a good time to start; at least some will benefit.
A new age of rational spirituality is again arriving, and Hinduism and Vedanta will lead the way again.
Posted by: clearthinking1 | November 1, 2009 11:45 AM
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Thank you for pointing out that altruism does not necessarily come from religion. There were "good people" on this planet WAY before man invented god.
Posted by: agnost | October 29, 2009 8:20 AM
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Oh, please do be more specific!
"It is a perennial and great issue which I expect to stir some higher quality debate than some that happened after the atheists laid down heir very lacking gauntlets. Let's hope."
Your hopes have been realized, let's debate. But, you don't really want to debate, do you? You taken your swipes and now you've run to hide.
And wow! You're not sure if your example is historical, BUT...
Your essay here is (deliberately) short and inadequate. Teacher told you to use 1000 words and you just squeezed them in, didn't you? This is the Washington Post - it deserves a better effort.
"I think that we are actually made to be good. Whether one believes God made us that way (read Archbishop Tutu, for example) or we simply are built that way by other non-personal natural forces such as the raw survival of our DNA does matter, but that's a different debate."
No, actually, Mr. Tauber, it is THIS debate. It's the one you didn't bother to work on despite being on the "panel".
Posted by: onefossilrabbit | October 28, 2009 7:16 PM
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Opps... let me claify, I have not reason to beleive that a belief in God is required to be good. I have seen many conpassionate and loving athiests. Sorry for the ambiguous post above. :)
Posted by: Jason75 | October 28, 2009 3:11 PM
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Good thoughts Mr. Tauber. I agree with much of what you have to say. And I am glad that you decided to turn around. As they say, it is not how you begin, but how you finish, that is important.
I have no reason to believe that a person can be good to others, even "saintly", without a belief in God. But, in my view, the promptings, urging, even nagging feelngs to do the right thing is from God; whether or not it is recognized as such.
I'd love to elaborate, but need to get back to work.
God bless!
Posted by: Jason75 | October 28, 2009 3:09 PM
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Dear FossiiRabiit,
If you don't think 700 comments so far is discussion and debate, I am not sure what would satisfy.
I think you need to do a bit more homework/reading too.
Hang in there.