The Osteens as Spiritual Midgets

"Mnnngj" wrote:
"Giving up oneself to surrender completely to the Divine is exactly what most don't want anything to do with."

A heartfelt self re-orienting of your entire being from "reliance on self" for all things -- to "reliance on God" for all things is precisely the same thing -- and precisely what Osteen leads us to!

So many people do not know that the Prosperity Gospel and indeed all of the Fundamentalist and Evangelical movements come from a relatively new theology developed in the 1830s and 1840s by two British theologians: Darby and Scofield. These two developed a radical interpretation of scriptures, jettisoning the previous 1800 years of accepted Christian belief. There is reason to believe they did this to provide a theological justification for the economic theories of Adam Smith. So here we have a wonderful irony, a Christian religious cult based on the love of money, something Christ called the root of all evil. The cult is maintained by promoting fear - fear of hell, fear of homosexuals, fear of not having the financial blessings of God. Most people believing in this theology do so unwittingly and with a true emotional experience of faith. How sad that it is based on a mockery of Christ's admonitions.

MNNNJ WROTE: "Self discovery leading to self wisdom is a path that few tread. Few are that serious about God."

A very excellent, challenging post. The "self-discovery" part, which I take to mean "self-examination" at least in fair measure, is where you leave behind the majority of Christians. I've met maybe three who actually know themselves to any degree.

"Thin theology." Kind of redundant, isn't it?

Certainly superficial but the masses want superficial religiosity so they are served by these kinds of people. This is about social religiosity, nothing more.

Real Spiritual life is another thing entirely. It demands discipline and a life of renunciation and that does not mean just giving up ice cream on Sundays. Renunciation is renouncing the ego or the self idea, also known as self-possession. That is what people don't want. Giving up oneself to surrender completely to the Divine is exactly what most don't want anything to do with.

Listening to some preacher babble on about inanities and offer some consoling hope about money and sex is not it.

Self discovery leading to self wisdom is a path that few tread. Few are that serious about God.

No? You talkabout your lost sheep in wolve's clothing, whatnot... Blame the queers.

Anyone wanna talk to this guy before you decide I don't belong around Lady Liberty's skirts?

Well, there we are.

BTW, Hey. Christian dudes. I've been trying to help out a hurtin' puppy of your prosperous righteousness, who happens to have a penchant for being all into the idea some of his fellow Americans burn and suffer horribly.

I don't suppose there's any possibility of getting some backup on this poor kid, or is he too much involved with what you are not under any circumstances doing?

Topical. Empty. Is it supposed to be some sort of metaphor?

Just a modern day pair of Billy Sundays.

Any preacher who has to have versace suits is more interested in the flesh than in the spirit. they are a plague on mankind!

Osteen's message is inspirational but not original to him. Norman Vincent Peale first introduced this prosperity gospel to Christian churches. And if you want to know where Osteen gets his other ideas, just read any one of Dr. Joseph Murphy books or go the www.revbates.tv and you will find the same message without the Jesus as savior business.

The Olsteens just seem to be the latest pastors to preach the prosperity gospel. There is truth in what they say, but not much. They do seem to preach the gospel of Jesus, which is good. But Jesus does not guarentee prosperity.

They say that God will grant us what we ask in prayer. But this is not a statement we are supposed to take selfishly. He does give us all we need spiritually but some other things we won't get in our lives. We need to ask for godly things, not material things. God will surely say no to things that he knows will harm us, even if they mean prosperity on earth.

I remember the quote for every 100 men that can handle hard times there is one who can handle prosperity. The truth is we become more dependant on God in hard times. What we need is God and he will lavish himself on us. Our rewards in heaven will be greater than anything we could ask for on earth.

I do believe that following God does lead to greater prosperity on earth. Just look at our great nation. Following God's commands just lead to great things, there is no question about that. We just can't guarantee that God will give us worldly prosperity. It may or may not happen. Just look at other countries where all Christians are persecuted and martyred. Just looking at the Bible tells us the same. 11 of 12 disciples were matyred and the 12th was exiled. The true blessings of God will come in heaven and that is where we should look.

Below find, btw, a textbook example of the device known as a 'psychological double-bind,' a favorite technique of abusers, exploiters, and manipulators everywhere. Let's have a look, shall we?

" spidermean2 Author Profile Page:

"Astoria wrote "So this was the woman who struck the flight attendant?""

"Remember, they are prominent people whose job is to preach the Bible. How is it possible that she would hit a flight attendant in front of the other passengers? Even true b*tches won't do that to protect their image."

"ONLY IDIOTS WOULD BELIEVE THAT."

Basically, the implication here is, 'What you saw can't have happened cause we're not that kind of people. Only an idiot or a B-word or a crazy person could possibly think what we're doing is what we're doing.'

Where'd you learn that, Spidey?

Hopefully you just watched the movie 'Gaslight' a lot.

The Osteens' theology is even thinner when one reviews the history of Christianity:

A Synopsis-

Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. www. earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Current crises in the RCC:

Pedophiliac priests, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Current crises:

Adulterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals (like the Osteens) and atonement theology. .

The Osteens are a refreshing alternative to the generally pathetic (of pathos) 'sack cloth and ashes' Western spiritual/religious paradigm.

Their message is basically that those who have faith in God and intend to 'do' and 'be good' can have life be a joyful and abundant experience.

Follow the rules and then "ask and you shall receive".

Osteen's message is very "New Testament"! One only needs a clear mind and a clear heart to 'get it'.

.

Astoria wrote "So this was the woman who struck the flight attendant?"

Remember, they are prominent people whose job is to preach the Bible. How is it possible that she would hit a flight attendant in front of the other passengers? Even true b*tches won't do that to protect their image.

ONLY IDIOTS WOULD BELIEVE THAT.

People pray to God to solve the financial meltdown. As I've said, God doesn't answer the prayer of fools. How can it be solved when the people running the financial system are the cause of the meltdown?

Just adopt McCain's proposal of bailing out the homeowners who would then bailout the banks and BAN shortselling in ALL stocks. NO EXEMPTIONS.

Donuts for God. Interesting.
I had to suffer, every Sunday, in the homeless shelter I worked in every Sunday to Joel's feel good praying for dollars style of evangelism-
The ladies ate it up-

So this was the woman who struck the flight attendant? Now i have to go look at that interview by Sally Quinn. I've been avoiding that.

Arminius, the confederate soldier's prayer was not answered coz he is fighting for slavery. God doesn't anwer prayers from idiots.

The Osteens need to read this:

A CONFEDERATE SOLDIER'S PRAYER
Author Unknown,
(Attributed to a battle weary C.S.A soldier near the end of the war)

I asked God for strength, that I might achieve;
I was made weak, that I might learn humbly to obey.
I asked for health, that I might do greater things;
I was given infirmity, that I might do better things.
I asked for riches, that I might be happy;
I was given poverty, that I might be wise.
I asked for power, that I might have the praise of men;
I was given weakness, that I might feel the need of God.
I asked for all things, that I might enjoy life;
I was given life, that I might enjoy all things.
I got nothing that I asked for, but everything I hoped for.
Almost despite myself, my unspoken prayers were answered.
I am among all men most richly blessed.

The Osteen's seem to be light weight and offer little meat to followers, kinda like this column.

" the Osteens repeat their most firmly held beliefs. If you pray to Jesus, you'll get what you want."

It's hard to get what you want if you pray and don't live the right way.

The economic mess we have today explains the immorality of America and our SHADY system (shortselling in the stock market).

"Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, SEVERITY; but toward thee, GOODNESS, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be CUT OFF. (Romans 11:22)

Ms. Miller,
don't you know that we can be spiritual giants without knowing the Bible? Spirituality has to do with love for your family, neighbours and our planet.