Belief Not the Problem; Bigotry Not the Solution

Sparrow4:"If I hadn't read it in several sources, I wouldn't have said it."

You said "her slogan was, "the first Christian Mayor of Wasilla,"

Cite your source. I did google it, all I could find was that some TV station called her that, or that there were whisperings from 'some people' I found nothing that said her or her campaign ever made this claim. Your claim that it was her 'slogan' is unsustantiated.

PaganPlace:
"So, Glade, as a Mccain/Palin supporter you'll continue to claim anyone not speaking their *current* line is 'spreading false stories,' even when the evidence you asked for is supplied?

I am NOT a McCain/Palin supporter. and yes anyone that makes this claim, in my eyes is spreading false stories unless they can substantiate the claim. Show me a statement, quote, bumpersticker, pamphlet, from her campaign and I will certainly concede the point.
Just because a claim is prevelant or sounds true does not make it true, i.e. Obama is a Muslim. I have called that claim into question many times as well.

Well, Dr. Reynolds, I find you an intelligent voice. My question is, "What are you doing here?"

And, may I mention the "pendulum?"

OK. Throughout the known history of human beings, as disturbances in the social construct happen -- revolutions, wars, class economic upheavals, good times with abundance, bad times with much poverty -- the pendulum swings from religiosity to utopianism, and back to religiosity, and then to utopianism, and so on and on, a continuum.

The longest lasting utopian state was the Soviet Union -- 70 years, give or take.

The longest lasting was the Roman Empire, the most religious practicing of all -- a thousand years.

I see we all have fun, in a way, talking about it.

gladerunner- do your own homework. google it. I don't have to spread false information or lies. Obama is doing really quite well without my help in this matter. There were interviews with several people, including Stein. the steins used to be friends with Palin. If I hadn't read it in several sources, I wouldn't have said it.

Interesting questions. Here are mine to you. Why should anyone's religious practices, or lack thereof, play come up during elections?

I'm far more interested in the candidates' views on Hamlet vs. Lear.

Which of the two plays do you consider the superior work and by what standards do you make your assessment?

Much has been written in the last thirty years on both plays. Some literary theorists assert that the bulk of the critism amounts to new wine in old bottles. What is your view? Are there relatively contemporary critics who have brought us new wine?

Arguably, some Marxist and cultural criticism has "contained" Lear? Is this a positive development, a demystification as has been claimed?

Why can no school of theory "contain" Hamlet?

Why until recently did male scholars assume that Ophelia's death was due to Hamlet, rather than the murder of Polonius?

How can we relate this last question to Deleuze and Guattari?

Finally, what is your opinion of eyebrow waxing, which is now an essential part of good grooming for young men and women.

So, Glade, as a Mccain/Palin supporter you'll continue to claim anyone not speaking their *current* line is 'spreading false stories,' even when the evidence you asked for is supplied?

And, Bob2Davis. Proof of the existence of any God is not required if you aren't basing an argument from authority on the notion.

Wiccan... yeah, it's a hit piece, one of many I have read today trying to find a source for Sparrow4's assertion. ... Frankly the seattletimes diatribe is an unimpressive one... I've served on boards of small volunteer organizations that were politically more bloody than all that petty political bickering they exposed in Palin's career...

I still stand by my assertion that sparrow4 is deliberately spreading false stories, not at all unlike the 'obama is a muslim' one by saying that her 'slogan' was 'the first christian mayor.' If it were true then SURELY the seattletimes hit piece would have said so... but no.. all it could say is that someone else said it...

BTW, I've pointed this out elsewhere. I am not a McCain/Palin supporter. I do not need to be lied to to be convinced to not vote for them.

It seems that it was a tv staion that said that:

"Afterward, a TV station called her Wasilla's "first Christian mayor." This prompted a letter from Stein (the previous mayor), saying: "Really?" He listed eight previous mayors, all Christian, and added: "With a name like 'Stein' some suspected that I must be a non-Christian, have non-Christian blood or at least have sympathized with a non-Christian sometime in my career. I'm proud of such a reputation but I, my family and forbearers are of the Christian persuasion, too."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2008163431_palin070.html

You should read the article in full, though. Very interesting.

Sparrow4: "her slogan was, "the first Christian Mayor of Wasilla,"

That was her 'slogan' in Alaska? really? You sure about that? Like it was on signs and billboards and snowmobile bumperstickers? really? Show me one... seriously... After all you wouldn't want to be accused of spreading false information would you?

Sarah Palin showed her true colors by rejecting abortion in every case, including rape and incest. She also thinks the "morning after" pill is an act of abortion and should not be taken.

She stated she would counsel individuals in these situations to keep the baby and that she would liberalize adoption procedures.

I think that she would like to inject her personal (religious) views into her politics and that is enough reason never to vote for the McSame/Failing ticket.

Gaby

I wish just one person would give concrete evidence of a god or gods. If so, that person would single handedly change the world. However, if no one person can truly evidence the god belief, then like fairy tales, it is all made up in your head. Will anyone out there take this challenge?

I might also point out that gov. Palin's Church also welcomed the leader of Jews for Jesus, who hold some very offensive views, and when she ran against the former mayor of Wasilla, whose last name was "Stein," her slogan was, "the first Christian Mayor of Wasilla,", implying Stein was a Jew and she, as a Christian was better. Stein, however is also a Christian- so on every level Palin's behavior was despicable. And truly antisemitic and manipulative. It is exactly what the Republicans have been doing to Obama- using his name to cast doubt on who he is.

You seem to be positing this as a "us Christians against the unbelievers" kind of argument. It's an interesting concept but patently false as any minority in this country can attest from personal experience.

It sounds like you are saying that there are many religeous points of view in the world, many claiming to be the only truth, and that you are acknowledging that they cannot all be true, and that acknowledging this, that there is no way to hold the truth of your own belief up above everyone else's with any kind of credibiliby, and that therefore, perhaps a doctrine of toleration as a core belief is good and for the best.

But of course, as you seem to be learning, everyone is not tolerant. In fact most people are not. Therefore, let us keep religion out of politics. It is really hypocritical for a political leader to proclaim a parochial and narrow vision of religious belief, when the people whom he wishes to impress are of many, many, diverse backgrounds.

If you want to be a preacher, go ahead and preach. If you want to be professor of some type of theology, or if you want to teach Sunday School, or commiserate in prayer groups or Bible study, go ahead and do all those things. But when you are in politics, then all mention of relgigion is suspect, and never does anyone any good. Religion should be kept out of of politicss completely.

How does that infringe on you, or hurt you, or cause you any kind of heart burn or distress, unless your tolerance is not real, but pretended, and you need public discussion of religion in politics to promote the politics of your own religion?

It seems you have an interesting view of what's 'fair,' Mr. Reynolds, though perhaps we agree in principle. Your little question to Biden is a little skewed, considering that if a Catholic has the view that a bishop is acting in a theocratic manner by using a sacrament for de facto kingmaking unless a Democrat alters his position on a secular issue, then maybe he knows whereof he speaks, as a Catholic to whom denial of Communion is a well-known historical practice of the Church to compel obedience in political figures, and as the one who might be subject to such attempts at religious compulsion over politics.

But, no, you call the theocrat a 'Traditional Christian.'

Likewise, it's not Palin's churches' 'exuberance' that's of concern, it's what they *say about other people, the world, and what 'traditional Christians' ought to do about it.

That *is* scary, and it should be scary to anyone.

Romney was ill-used by some over prejudices about Mormons, it's true. But also his supporters used a notion of prejudice to label any questioning... or even *pointing out* of his *policies* and *record* as 'bigoted.'

The fact he made promises when he came into Massachusetts that he would respect our wishes and not inject Mormon theocratic attitudes into things like the gay rights issue, among others, and then turned around and did just that.

It may be bigoted to keep claiming one's prejudice about the 'exuberance' of Rev Wright overrides Senator Obama's own words and record and life story, ...even a speech saying *at length* what he thinks of the whole thing...

But it's not bigoted to ask Gov. Palin to speak similarly, particularly since she *actively supports radical views and seeks to impose them on the rest of us.* But continues to present herself as more moderate than her actual record or own words bear out.

Yes, she credited the blessing of a witch-hunter who got some old woman cast out of her village for causing a bunch of car accidents by 'witchcraft,' ....for enabling her to become Governor by protecting her from 'witches.' She believes in 'spiritual warfare.' Who does she think these 'witches' she was so saved from *are?*

Me? 'Libruls?' Joe Biden?

Darn tooting that's of concern.