Acts More Important than Numbers

Let's be clear. The war in Vietnam was started by Harry Truman when he reneged on the U.S. commitment to recognize an independent Vietnamese government. Even Chiang Kai Shek recognized Ho Chi Minh's government. But, oh no, to cater to the French, who collaborated in both Europe and Indochina way more than they resisted. The French sent their colonial scum back in, and, what a surprise, the Vietnamese objected. Ergo, the war.

BEGONE:

You are hereby given a stupid shell script award. Your hoax-buster URL is so repetitive that you are beginning to sound like "Concerned Shell Script Now Limited." Repeating something stupid does not make it insanely great.

Repeating something stupid does not make it insanely great.

Repeating something stupid does not make it insanely great.

Repeating something stupid does not make it insanely great.

Repeating something stupid does not make it insanely great.

Repeating something stupid does not make it insanely great.

Get a life.

Get a life.

Get a life.

garyd:

Yep, it's them freeloaders that's killing the economy. That brings us right back to Viet Nam. The liberals were so busy protesting that war they didn't notice the conservatives as they snuck Roe V Way through the Earl Warren court and got abortion legalized.

Yeah, conservatives worried sick about social welfare programs. Taxes!!! They were sick and tired of paying taxes, (real estate) to raise a, in their words, "bunch of hippies bastard kids" conceived at "love ins." Foster homes were filled and babies could be adopted with ease then.

Social Security is not taxes. It's insurance. That's how it was originally written into law -another great benefit from conservatives calling it "payroll taxes." And it's insurance that carries with it government responsibility for maintaining the strength of the dollar. Ha!

If you examine the numbers I gave you above you must realize anyone who paid their "Social Security premiums" during the 40's, 50's and 60's and on into the 80's even don't stand a prayer of a chance of ever getting enough in benefits to cover what they paid -have to live to 150 years old. Yet the righteous liars we send to Washington will tell you what was paid by a boomer will be collected in a year or two. Sure in their inflated dollars but not if the "premiums" paid are adjusted for government caused, (by war?) inflation -no lying about inflation.

If we can print a trillion dollars to eliminate WMDs in Iraq we can spend 10 trillion to pay those social benefits. Don't let the politicians find that out for Social Security is about to go bankrupt, (but the Army can't).

Boomers, keep smiling. No equity in your house. The government is too poor to pay your Social Security benefits and we're going to end legal abortion so your property taxes can be increased, go through the ceiling to raise the unwanted bastards. Without a doubt, God wills it.

What was that the DI said to his new boots? Oh yeah, "you ask for it and I'm here to see to it you get it, each and every little bit of it." Remember Gary, be careful what you ask for.

Time to ask, http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul just which supernatural being, God or Devil is the object of faith? With just a little more help form that God, by comparison, DIs are sweetie pies.

And WPNW can't figure out why people are going form church to church looking for God. Devil just loves it. That's why.

It might also be helpful to note that we now spend roughly 65% of the federal budget on social programs. The War in Iraq is comparatively speaking chump change.

garyd:

Faith is all about lies so this is as good a place as any.

The south was Democrat until the Democrats -LBJ insisted on integration. The south is where the Bible shines brighter than the sun. The south is where illegal immigrants are most unwelcome. Note that integration was resisted in places presumed to already be integrated, Boston, Chicago etc just like recent immigrants are now. Any information in all that?

The cost of Viet Nam as I recall was 55 billion. Compare that to Apollo at 29 billion. Now compare that to Iraq. There's liar loans and there's liar budgeteers. Will Iraq cost less than a trillion, (1,000 billion)?

The Oracle told the king deciding to go to war, "If you attack a mighty empire will fall." He attacked, was defeated, (Iraq, Afghanistan) and his kingdom fell. Like axes fell trees war fells empires. Now take the Imperial Japanese for example if you don't like the Third Reich. There's the cost in treasure and there's the cost in faith for going to war.

That's our topic. Why are people "faith hopping"? All issues are economic. It's the cost of war.

Maybe the French should have left Viet Nam peaceable? Maybe we should listen less to Bible thumpers? What were we doing in Viet Nam in the first place? But of course, Ike put the term, "under God" into the pledge. The world had to be saved from Godless communism. The empire you save by not going to war may be your own. For sure that rule applies to economies.

All issues are economic. That's the only reason to worry about faith hopping -one ministries gain is another ministries loss. Go on an sleep through the sermon but don't forget to put the money on the plate. It's the free enterprise system where even at church competition is the heart and most especially the soul.

It might be helpful to look at the cost of things like Viet Nan, hint-Iraq.

We put a man on the moon, (and brought 'them' bact too) for 29 billion dollars. That's what Halliburton as a negotiating fee for their 'deal' in Iraq. The day the first shot was fired in Viet Nam a new 'loaded' Chevy cost less than $3,000 and a new VW beetle was around 1,500. A new house was under $20,000. $30,000 bought a mansion. $250,000 bought the "Beverly Hillbilly" estate. Sandy Kofax was the highest paid professional athlete at, $125,000 -pocket change for A-Rod and many others now.

Today we're being lied to as usual by our government, (they learn to lie at church?). Sub prime, liar loans, that sort of thing is a smoke screen. The bulk of foreclosures is due to loss of job/income. And, the biggest bugger in the wood pile is over supply. Would you pay, $2,500 per month on a mortgage or 'walk' and rent better for, $1,000 -somebody else worry about paying the taxes, broken widows and trees falling on it?

All issues are economic especially faith. Devil is loose everywhere. Methinks He came from "your churches, temples, synagogues and mosques" where Mr Bush sent you to pray, 9-11-2001. Later I heard him, the president say, "we are all sinners." There comes a time when on must agree with one's president.

While the Wall Street pundits agree Devil is loose there they debate whether or not He's made it to Main Street. You know we're in deep dodo when former Regan 'supply side' economists and CNBC show host Larry Kudlow is shocked that anyone makes less than, $150,000 per year.

Oversupply in housing means Depression in housing. Depression in housing is like a stray burst of bullets from a machine gun at a crowd -somebody bound to get hit. With "Boomers" looking to the equity in their homes for their upcoming retirement the picture looks rather dismal for everyone and especially them.

What goes around might just come around as advertised to say nothing of, "you may well get what you want so be more careful about what you want." The only bright economic star still shining is illegal aliens -to fill the vanant houses, do the jobs the boomers want to vacate and pay the payroll taxes so boomers can get social security -without some of those tears from the conservatives. Just look at who's for sending the ones already here back to where they came from. That old Devil is sure a slick one.

This is probably just another case of history ignored becoming history repeated. Don't you think?

Begone this is probably the wrong time and place for this particular conversation but we are likely to have it anyway.

When LBJ took office the Federal budget was 2/3 military, 10% pork and 23% social spending of one sort or the other. It wasn't the military budget, which essentially remained relatively static under LBJ in real numbers, but the rapid growth of social spending which thanks to LBJ's other war (on poverty) that the economy was in the tank. Keenedy had reduced taxes to 48% and the economy had rapidly improved. LBJ in an attempt to fund everyman's pipe dream put it back up to 70%.

Oh and Eisenhower was the first to send US advisers to South Vietnam. For what it is worth this was necessitated in no small part because that same LBJ that sent as many as 600k troops to South Vietnam when he was President refused to sell France sufficient all weather fighter-bombers to make Dien Bien Phu work.

Garyd:

By the time Nixon took office, 1969 the economy was already a train wreck from the cost of Viet Nam. I believe the RR is talking about Hippies and Yippies, draft card burners, the civil rights movement and most of all anti civil rights -the base of what is now known as neocons who claim to be a moral majority. The neocons should rebirth the slogan, "Save you confederate money for the south shall rise again."

Kennedy is the Viet Nam instigator. Lee Harvey Oswald had more to do with the Viet Nam "surge" -changing the plan from advisers to 500,000 combat troops and the whole Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines. The Godless communists nearly got us if you want to call Viet Nam a success. The object lesson was clear.

There is no world church. And Nixon was the one that moved us out of Viet Nam. I was Lyndon Baines Johnson who began the bombing of North Viet Nam and in fact often chose specific targets for the bombs.

Let us also note that when we left more than 3 million Southeast Asians were murdered robbed or displaced by the people all the world's leftist thought should be in charge. The left is up to it's elbows in the blood of innocents because of it's fascination with communist butchers such as Pol Pot, Mao tse Dung and Linen.

By the way Nixon increased funding of LBJ rediculous war on poverty established short lived wage and price controls and a host of other leftist ideas all of which laid the seeds for the disastrous Carter Presidency.

The problem is that during all that turmoil and social upheaval, the World Church was either silent or on the side of evil -- white only churches, for instance, or pro-war inclination.

While Vietnamese children were being roasted alive by the bombing ordered by Nixon, Nixon and Billy Graham quietly played golf together, and exchanged antisemitic jokes. That speaks volumes about the World Church.

You may not have noticed, but many others did.

Right Reverend John Bryson Chane:

One other event of the 1960's that has probably played the biggest role is "ecumenical" ushered in by pope John XXIII. In fact, that seems to be the kickoff of the radicalization of the 1960's done at the beginning of that unique decade of massive "community" change.

These kinds of questions have answers that model the stock market -there's so many parameters no one has managed an equation while all have opinions based upon solid facts. In the case of religious volatility only the officially established churches are required to put money where mouth is.

What's perfectly clear is that there is a conflict between religion and government world wide. We used to think of ourselves as being immune to religious interference in government but the evangelicals have put that baby to bed big time. Even the dumbest must cringe a little at the thought the president, congress, justices of the supreme court and the law of the land in general will be dictated by religious authorities even their own. Many, most even see that possibility as hateful.

I'm sure your assessment of the situation has great merit but there are so many facets to the jewel of church-member relationship that it's nearly impossible to tell where the reflected light is coming form. Once the word light is spoken the evangelicals claim a patent on it's source and do it at the speed of light too.

If people don't switch religions then how can the evangelical mega churches grow? See, there's always a silver lining to the darkest cloud.

http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul clearly says cheer up for things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. A lot of those "faith hoppers" are hopping right out the window never to return. 40% is a significant number, on that we can surely agree. Thought I'd mention something else that we really doesn't ever get mentioned otherwise else the churches might empty out altogther.

Good points moderate. There are two ways to grow a church the Way the Moose lodge and Kiwanis club do it or you can preach the truth as revealed by scripture. Too many churches today are doing the former and far to few the latter. That as much as anything explains the nearly constant migration we see among todays churches. The sheep aren't getting fed as they ought and are looking for some place where they will be.

Dear Bishop Chane,

"We need to remember the size of a church or a denomination does not determine its success or its ability to live well into the Gospel."

We need to remember that The Episcopal Church is shrinking rapidly. This began when heterodoxy, as championed by John Spong and his friends, became the order of the day in ECUSA (now known as TEC). His message was that Christianity was a myth and was basically unimportant from his grand historical perspective. He lost close to half of the Episcopalians in the Diocese of New Jersey with that message. You know, it is a very fine thing to be Unitarian, or a Deist, or an Atheist, but if Spong was one of the above, why did he continue to wear the robes of an Episcopal bishop?

It is not clear that some Episcopal bishops even believe in God these days. In an earlier column you yourself suggested that God lives in our hearts, and nowhere else. Is that consistent with the creeds and doctrines you took vows to when you were ordained?

If not, should you be surprised that the people in the pews are restive?