It's the Morality, Sinner

I agree with everything that you have said. As more and more people are invested in the stock market because of 401K plans, etc., the need for regulation has only grown.

I would also like to remind everyone, however, that we don't all need granite countertops, three-car garages, and 4,000 square foot houses. The greed/covetousness/need to keep up with the Joneses exists at all levels of our society and we all need to examine how we contributed to this mess.

Sparrow your ignorance is showing once again. Pastor Hagee has sat down with the President of the Catholic League and apologized for his comments. Bill Donohue accepted his apology. But you did not take the time to look all this up. This happened months ago. Where are you on all these current subjects.

Wright is relevant!

I am waiting for a n apology from Wright. He has yet to make his wrongs - right.

Interesting.

Mr. Wallis, you are correct in everything - but you seem to forget that preachers don't speak on greed and bonuses because it would limit their own income. God not only annointed them and their income...

This select/elect(annointed group) includes TV personalities - starting from Mr. Robertson to TD Jakes, Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn and the rest.

Somebody has rightly said : "There is enough in this world for everyone's need but not for everyone's greed".

Allowing more and more articles of human consumption to be traded like a company's shares has opened up new avenues for people to fulfill their greed by gambling in these articles. Today, one can trade in currencies, a large number of (essential) commodities, metals, interest rates etc. This is nothing but the promotion of legal gambling in the new civilized (?) or globalized world.

'Greed' is a profound human instinct. Today's world is providing a vast new fertile land where people can try their luck and get addicted to cultivating their greed for maximum monetary benefit.

'Morality' has become a relative and old-fashioned (in fact, obsolete) virtue and everyone has his/her own definition, interpretation, standards and ideas about this term (morality) as per the person's own convenience.

I think the present trend will continue unabated with some so called 'structural modifications' which might provide even greater and wider opportunities to humankind to stretch as well as manipulate their greed.

MAY GOD BLESS ALL OF US.

GD Jasuja

Hmm..religion to the rescue. Why not? I always thought that religion would carry out this task of bringing back morality selflessly, and devoting its entire time and energy for the good of the people and ask for absolutely nothing in return. For example the simple buildings that house our religious institutions is one such example. The extremely simple lives of those who preach from the pulpits to the masses is another example. And the opportunity to criticize other religions would also be a wonderful way of imposing this morality.

We have a fire(Greed)! Everyone has legitimate causes or influences that resulted in this mess. An analogy to fire is one I like here because like fire, it takes at least three ingredients to have one. In the years after the Great Depression we had higher taxes (capital gains in the 30-50% range and income tax brackets from 15 - 60%) , firm regulations to separate investment banking activities from commercial bank activities, and higher ethical standards. Since, the incentives for consolidating wealth and power are increased by lower taxes (income tax brackets maxing at 35% and capital gains at 15%), regulations are removed combined with technology to invent new financial devices, and ethical standards are lowered. All the money swirling around like there's no tomorrow - ah ha yes greed which defines a life based on the likelihood that there's no tomorrow...

Saying that "corruption" (as does Sarah Palin) and "greed" on Wall Street is the cause of the current financial crisis, is a little too facile.

After the Great Depression, regulatory systems were put in place (Glass-Steagall Act) to prevent a disaster in one financial area (such as housing), from spilling over into all the others.

This act was dismantled in 1999 by the small-government, anti-regulation Republicans (Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act), leading directly to our present woes.

Deregulation is also responsible for e-coli burgers, peppers, and lettuce; lead-painted toys from China; our wonderful airlines; and a whole host of other problems.

If you vote Republican this time, you deserve exactly what you'll get.

Terri~: says:
"I am guessing you are an African American since you called me a racist? Typical, to say the least~"

No, no reason to call you a racist...a racist would never make a statement like that.

You're a racist, Terri.

For all those of you haranguing Jim Wallis for being a GOP-toting Evangelical, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Have you ever actually read an issue of "Sojourners"? Been to anti-war or anti-poverty meeting with a representative of "Sojourners"? Wallis may or may not always speak the truth about morality (I'm not one to think in terms of "sin," although I think he's basically correct about greed in America) but he's a voice among the righteous on many issues... and no, I'm not an Evangelical. I'm a far-left Jew.

> Oh the race card once again. That won't work with me sparrow. Good try, but unfortunately you failed to make a point. Certainly most clear thinking people understand that Senator Obama is lying about Wright. In fact there is a new video out of the Senator from June 5, 2007 where he at Hampton University praising Jeremiah Wright.
- 2007?

You know Terri, a lot has happened since June 2007 between those 2 men. Unfortunately you couldn't see my point if it stabbed you in the eye. And even then I'm not so sure. You aren't dealing in facts, you're clinging to the hysterics of fear of Black men. Whatever point you're trying to make, you're sadly out of your league.

>Wow you had to reach back to Jimmy Swaggart? Let's keep these associations current, okay?

Why? Swaggart is a classic illustration of all those big TV preachers who suck up millions from believers only to spend it on big houses, fancy cars, women.....just like today. Or did you really think Robertson, Franklin Graham and the rest live simply in humble abodes and ride donkeys, like Jesus did?

>By the way, your post only points to ignorance since it was Mr. Wallis who told us to read our Bibles and talked about greed without pointing to one single word about greed from the Bible.

Huh? Could you make a little sense here instead of hallucinating comments for me? Are you on drugs?

>I am guessing you are an African American since you called me a racist? Typical, to say the least~

>Oh and by the way, Jerry Falwell at least was man enough to apologize!

Just one in a long line of "apologies" Falwell had to make because his mouth and his brain were permanently disconnected. If that's your idea of a "man" I'd hate to see what other admirable characteristics are that you look for in "men." Personally I think real men eat quiche, not crow.

>As for the West Coast...well they are a breed all to themselves. I do not need them to be bale to think for myself, sorry you do.

You call this thinking for yourself? Spouting partisan propaganda- mindless, palinized and mendacious??? Tell you what- you keep Sarah Palin, but please explain to me how her daughter's out of wedlock pregnancy makes her any different than any other unmarried teen of less than stellar morality? I noticed you avoided saying anything about that.

>The Reverend Wright Issue
Barack Obama on June 5, 2007 praising Reverend Wright and we thought they were not friends? Hum?

So what's your explanation for the Revs. Hagee and Parsley McCain had to cut loose (by the way, have you been reading newspapers since 2007? You do know Obama broke with Wright? whereas McCain was still "honored" to have Hagee's support as late as this past summer).

Let me enlighten you on a few of Hagee's comments:

""Hagee, pastor of the 16,000-member Cornerstone Church, last week had announced a 'slave sale' to raise funds for high school seniors in his church bulletin, 'The Cluster.'

"The item was introduced with the sentence 'Slavery in America is returning to Cornerstone" and ended with "Make plans to come and go home with a slave." [San Antonio Express-News 3/7/96]"

"Hagee on Hurricane Katrina "All hurricanes are acts of God because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]"

-Gosh-doesn't that sound Rev. Wrightish except it relates only to New Orleans? Hmmmm....?

"Hagee on Catholicism
"Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews." [Jerusalem Countdown by John Hagee]

Hagee on Women
"Do you know the difference between a woman with PMS and a snarling Doberman pinscher? The answer is lipstick. Do you know the difference between a terrorist and a woman with PMS? You can negotiate with a terrorist.""

And my personal favorite:

"John Hagee, the controversial evangelical leader and endorser of Sen. John McCain, argued in a late 1990s sermon that the Nazis had operated on God's behalf to chase the Jews from Europe and shepherd them to Palestine. According to the Reverend, Adolph Hitler was a "hunter," sent by God, who was tasked with expediting God's will of having the Jews re-establish a state of Israel."

Give me Wright any day. In fact give me Farrahkhan any day over this fundamentalist, pro-nazi windbag.

And let me point out one further item- with the exception of Pat Robertson (who served in Korea post WW II as the "liquor officer" in the officers club, Falwell, Bakker, Swaggart, Hagee, Parsley- none of them have given a lick of military service. Wright was an honored Marine who proudly served this country. So go wave that flag, Terri, for those who preach pulpit patriotism and do nothing to back it up.

Would the WP kindly let us know about how many people really read these comments? Congress should be required to read them and get a better idea of how "people" really feel.

As for me, I believe the bail-out is just a monster of a band aid to a failing banking system. Banks live in the old days, their processes and requirements remain inconsistent with a world that has to deal with bigger and more diverse issues.

The banks won't deal with people who want to keep their homes, but fell on hard times. Their system requires that you go under prior to speaking with you and at that the person you speak to has no authority in adjusting a loan temporarily. I would guess that many homeowners now in default and just tossing in the towel are doing so because the banks fail to listen to them in the very beginning of their prolem. The banks want you to go under, they don't want to fix the problem unless they can make a killing on it. So since so many are now saying to hell with them, foreclose on me, the banks are going gee our approach didn't work, now we have to get money from Unc Sam and give it to the rich, and let the middle and lower classes go stick their head in a hovel. That money is not going to help the mainstream, it's going to increase the wealth of a few. I say we take the 83 bill or whatever the amount, fund the people who are losing their homes, give them some reprieve while they get their situation bettered. In addition to that while I am not crazy about regulation, the middle mortgage guys need some tough measures taken against them for talking people into these subprime and dangerous mortgages, and the banks also for approving them in the end. Had a mortgage person not pushed someone into thinking they could buy a home at more than they could afford, especially after a loan "matured," perhaps all those people would not have been in default. Those people sold loans in bulk and made a killing on people. And now those buyers are in dire straits. And the cost of a home, what's that about when I see residential builders using alien labor (at a very low cost) to build these homes, I'ld like to see the profit margin on those guys!

And don't tell me people need to be more informed about their loan, while I agree with that, when you are presented with an 1 1/2" thick loan document in 4 pt font in legalese the "majority" will not read it thoroughly, and if they do they will not understand it. They trust the lender to explain it fully and to advise yay or nay.

The truth is...don't be in debt to anyone...get rid of your debt and never borrow from the "stinking" banking system again. They're evil doers.

I suggest a single rule regarding "search for blame" in morality and the economy:

Any who have, intentionally or unintentionally, helped enable bad behavior by making money from religious preaching, attending prayer breakfasts at the White House, Capitol Hill, and/or hob-nobbing with the rich and famous, should refrain from offering their analysis.

The Church, especially evangelical charlatans have been actively complicit in the deterioation of morals and the common good. These charlatans have supported and have been propped up by the GOP. Look at George W Bush a supposed christian who lied our country into a sinful illegal attack of a sovereign country: Iraq, where hundreds of thousands of innocent people have perished. His economic policies have been of greed and avarice favoring the mega wealthy. In Iraq there is crude blatant war profiteering off death and destruction by the likes of Halliburton, Bechtel, Blackwater and other corporations: all connected to Bush/Cheney. Enron, cheated and ruined many lives just so a few sinners could benefit beyond what is truly needed. These are only a few examples of what that supposed christian charlatan George W Bush has done, we could add illegal wiretaps, using the Department of Justice to persecute political opponents, and the sins are vast: yet the Evangelical christians quietly support these sinners. Now we have McCain/Palin two baldfaced liars, greedmongers who don't care about their fellow men or those with the least: they want to continue the Bush sins, and predictably the Evangelical christians are goose stepping behind them. The Evangelical christians are phonies: they are, in reality bigots, judgmental sinners who are selfishly out for their narrow agendas, and the country be damned. That's the awful charade of religion in the United States: the worst people hide behind the phony mantle of its fakery.

PERMANENTLY BANNING INSANITY (a guideline to who should become president)

From the time humanity started, there never was a practice that a person can sell what he DOESN'T OWN. It is only logical that NOBODY can sell a house or any property which he doesn't own. And yet, this kind of practice is LEGALLY done in the stock market thru SHORT SELLING. That is the term they use for the "PUT OPTION" in stock trading. YES, it is legal to sell stocks which you don't own in the stock market thru short selling. What happens is the one engaging in short selling gets a profit from the loss of another. The lower the stocks plunge the richer they become. What is worse is if they make creative ways to pull it down. That is how insane the stock market has become. GREED and INSANITY has become their god.

Finally, upon seeing that there's a possiblity that all banks around the world could collapse because of this practice, they've made a decision to TEMPORARILY BAN SHORT SELLING. It was not a galant act on their part but only a REACTION TO SURVIVE. They are only TEMPORARILY STOPPING THEIR GREED TO SURVIVE.

It was NOT the planned government BAILOUT which saved the market although it could help ease the money crunch. I hope the bailout would bring down mortgage interest rates so homeowners would also benefit. With the government now owning Fannie and Freddie and the planned absorption of foreclosed properties thru a massive 700 billion dollar bailout, the government has NOW the POWER to REDUCE them.

The point is, let SANITY PREVAIL. The government should now focus on that ONE GOAL to bring DOWN mortgage interest rates and MOST IMPORTANTLY make SHORT SELLING BE BANNED PERMANENTLY.

The PRESURE TO BRING IT BACK coming from the SHARKS would be great. I think Bush would buckle to the pressure. What we need is a next president who can STAND FOR WHAT IS RIGHT. The presidential candidate who can promise to abolish SHORT SELLING ( profiting from the LOSS of others) should be the NEXT President.

Jackson Browne had it all said several years ago in his song, "Casino Nation. MLK Jr. said it, too, when he warned against the "giant triplets" of militarism, racism and consumerism. Here is Browne's take on our "Casino Nation."

"In a weapons producing nation under Jesus
In the fabled crucible of the free world
Camera crews search for clues amid the detritus
And entertainment shapes the land
The way the hammer shapes the hand

Gleaming faces in the checkout counter at the Church of Fame
The lucky winners cheer Casino Nation
All those not on TV only have themselves to blame
And don't quite seem to understand
The way the hammer shapes the hand

Out beyond the ethernet the spectrum spreads
DC to daylight, the cowboy mogul rides
Never worry where the gold for all this glory's gonna come from
Get along dogies, it's coming out of your hides

The intentional cultivation of a criminal class
The future lit by brightly burning bridges
Justice fully clothed to hide the heart of glass
That shatters in a thousand Ruby Ridges
And everywhere the good prepare for perpetual war
And let their weapons shape the plan
The way the hammer shapes the hand."

I am not sure about the social in the assessment of the benefits of the market paradigma. It depends on whether you would like to call the countless re-invention of snake oil a social innovation. Creative logic, even if wrapped in a worldview or religion that basically states more, bigger, better, that only serves the purpose of being more, bigger and better in relation to your environment (whatever that environment actually may be) is still same old biological driven logic. I fail to see anything social in these so-called innovations. Now, if we could detach one of our basic emotions like fear or sex and individually and collectively could re-invent a worldview – and live by it – where the personal would not be the political and personal emotions would not automatically be at the core of our social constructs, that would be a social innovation. Without the either-or logics of capitalism as opposing communism.

CCNL. "The correction beings!"

You mean revenge that is based on hatred, right?

Where do you get that "burnomg someone" is correction? It is called murder.

September 21, 2008 3:28 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on September 21, 2008 03:28

Anonymous:
Gasoline is expensive. I was in advance auto today and a guy came in reeking of the smell of gasoline. Three people in the store comment on it including the store manager. I was so bad that the manager was ready to ask the gut to leave.

Ironically, one of the people in the store was someone that I know, haven’t seen him for a long time but it was nice to see him again. Jim said to me that gut smells like he has been rolling in gasoline, that’s when the manager said he was going to ask the guy to leave because he smelled so bad. The guy in the parking lot said his engine caught fire from a gas leak and that he poured water on it and it didn’t stop the fire, he was in a black truck, and I could recognize both of them. The guy in the truck was talking about burning his wife to death with gasoline. I told him that he would go to jail for murder and that I would be a witness to what he said. He also told me that he has hidden cameras in his house to spy on his wife with microphones and that he put a GPS system on her car so he could track her whereabouts. I told him that he will go to jail for doing these things and he laughed and said I won’t get caught. I said the very ones that think that they are above reproach are the ones that get caught. He said he didn’t care that he had people to do it for him and that they would lie for him.

The guy said “she has to pay for what she did to me.”

How about you lead the "fight" to take back the brains of those poor deluded Evangelicals? The absolute nonsense of their belief is beyond belief! China has a longer cultural history than their absurd 6 days 600 year ago creation; that's not religion, it is pure bunk, a con story to rip off the ignorant, the superstitious, the scared! As a spiritual person concerned about humanity; you must be "called" to protect these people from their exploited "ministers"! To live the life of opulence while quoting the words of Jesus reported in their Bible is the height of hypocrisy and should bring shame to all Christians! Until we recover these deluded souls; they will support their own destruction and that of everyone else by their support of lying hypocrites, greed based religion, and hypocritical preachers! America is so dumbed down; no wonder we are the pariah nation, with failing economics, agressive bully war-mongers, and greedy capitalists sucking down every sou that is not nailed to the floor!

I mean, if you're worried about 'Morality,' ask Ms Palin, the darling of the *OK* radical Christian Dominionists why she found it necessary to bring *herself* up on corruption charges so her own office could sit on the investigation and block all others till after the election?

You may find those Alaskans aren't so gaga over her 'outsiderness.'

Oh. And when I say 'backwoods' I mean... Suburbia.

Hey, if you want to be scared of Obama's former pastor that he openly disagrees with... what about Palin's *current* ones? Do you know where *she* comes from? Or do you just approve, cause it's 'white?' However 'Third Wave' and actually with stated goals to overthrow American democracy and substitute backwoods apocalyptic Fundamentalism?

You wanna try and say Obama's not about what he says he is... Looked hard at who McCain sought out and changed his positions for, or who Palin figures she ought to crush the infidel America for?

I don't exaggerate by near enough for comfort, there.

Forget about what you fear... Look at who you *back.*

Then tell me you're prepared to sign on for that. In your religion, need I point out, the 'false prophet' to worry about isn't the one you *suspect,* ...it's the one you're actually tempted to follow.

She may be the American Taliban in lipstick, but you are still responsible for what you support.

*Her* preachers are called dangerous right-wing heretics by the *Southern Baptist convention.*

If that's the sort of thing you worry about.

Tom Weaver:

[QUOTE]The other is this you-tube of Larry Lessig, and is an unpaid advisor to Obama. If your know Christ, you will know that this is blasphemy and must be rejected by all who claim to know Christ as their Savior. Jesus has something to say about blasphemy in Matthew. Matthew 12:31 "And so I tell you, every sin will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL1Z7_IMFs4[QUOTE]

You remind me of the little old ladies that I used to listen to when I was growing up, who loudly proclaimed that that "Devil church music" that uses guitars was a Satanic influence on the Good Lord's church. Please don't conflate "I don't like X" with "X is blasphemy". Did you actually listen to the underlying message of the song? Think about the justaposition of Jesus' "outdated and antiquated" message with the medium of the song, and the with the images of Jesus and the modern world.

=============================================

Tsk..tsk Tom.....

I go to a church where the music is live, drums, guitars, and all the contemporary music blasting on Sunday mornings - 5000 in each service! All three of them. Never heard G-D America. I am far from an old church lady. Larry Lessig, perhaps is a tool of satan, but hardly doing the work of the Good Lord's Church.

Oh the race card once again. That won't work with me sparrow. Good try, but unfortunately you failed to make a point. Certainly most clear thinking people understand that Senator Obama is lying about Wright. In fact there is a new video out of the Senator from June 5, 2007 where he at Hampton University praising Jeremiah Wright. You know Obama's friend, mentor, pastor for 20 years.

Wow you had to reach back to Jimmy Swaggart? Let's keep these associations current, okay? Wright is hardly past and it took Senator Obama three times to finally "DISTANCE" himself from the Reverend, who is now caught up in a sex scandal like John Edwards.

By the way, your post only points to ignorance since it was Mr. Wallis who told us to read our Bibles and talked about greed without pointing to one single word about greed from the Bible.

I am guessing you are an African American since you called me a racist? Typical, to say the least~

Oh and by the way, Jerry Falwell at least was man enough to apologize!

As for the West Coast...well they are a breed all to themselves. I do not need them to be bale to think for myself, sorry you do.

The Reverend Wright Issue

Barack Obama on June 5, 2007 praising Reverend Wright and we thought they were not friends? Hum?

But they’re going to have to explain this speech by Obama from June 5, 2007 at Hampton University, lavishing praise on Rev. Wright in a way that makes it very clear that Obama was a close personal friend.

This close friend of Barack Obama also joined Louis Farrakhan on a trip to Libya and met with Muammar Gaddafi in 1984, right around the time Obama would have first met Rev. Wright. Has anyone ever asked Obama for his opinion about that trip?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpzHQ_PC1uI&eurl=http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31310_The_Reverend_Wright_Issue

Mr. Wallis,

First off, the "lipstick on the pig" in your opening paragraph was insulting. As a woman I am really tired of people like you, who are Obama surrogates, that seem to be trying to make the statement about 'lipstick', less offensive in some way. Let us step back, if you are going to preach to anyone about morality, and call a spade a spade, an above all else, let us be truthful with one another.

Jesus was Truth, and He never left us guessing about what we should consider important on 'all' issues as it pertains to our morality. In fact He said in John 8:31-32 "If you hold to my teaching, you really are my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." And foremost, let us as Christians not paint morality as only an issue of greed. In mentioning greed you somehow missed the word "lust." The personal inclination, an intense longing or pleasure for things such as sexual desire and success. Which is worse? Are they really the same? Does the word "greed" fit into your narrative for this election?

There seems to be a monopoly on our culture but I reject the fact that you point to greed, and not the downward spiral of the American people who are guilty of allowing themselves to be influenced by secular progressives. We are certainly under attack, but I do not fear "radical Islam" as much as I fear the roaring sound and images of the political, philosophical, social, and theological (New Age) agenda of the liberal movement. Those Hollywood types, you know them, Barack Obama's friends who have assaulted our "main stream" American values. The pop culture crowd that raised 9 million dollars for the Senator after years of railing against President Bush and the "war on terror." The materialistic junkies from the West Coast and New York City, who have continued to produce filth and trash with images, movies, music and magazines. You know the greedy, the immoral, the worst offenders in this country. The backers, supporters and cheerleaders of Obama. From the left coast, to the north east coast, those people who are foaming at the mouth, and fuming inside with a deep seeded hatred for "our" President. What about the hate? That poisonous pill we take hoping the other guy will die? The hate mongers like Obama's Pastor and friends, his left wing supporters - Move on and The Daily Kos, who are the worst haters of anything that is good in this country. Where is the outrage about what they stand for? Where is the article about them, their agenda and sinfulness?

The erosion of our values has been slow, but it is upon us, and no one is pushing back and stepping in to call sin what it is anymore - wrong - and more than just simply greed. We are told to be tolerant and sit in a corner where we are supposed to "shut up" so people like you, can preach to us, about the "state of the union." Please move over some, because we are out here (Conservatives) and we are going to start speaking out more about the arrogance that is dominant in the media, television and Hollywood.

I do not have a "love hate" relationship with my government, I am sorry to hear you do. In fact, I am thankful to be an American, and I am grateful for the way our "Founding Fathers" established a guide and foundation for the United States of America. What I have a problem with, is people like you telling others that "It's Morality, Sinner." Would you have gone to Hollywood with Senator Obama and spoken to the audience at the fundraiser event...you know - to people like Barbara Streisand, about their many moral failings? Could you have used your influence as the President of Sojourners and Call to Renewal, to remind movie stars that as Christians we are fed up with their self indulgent, elitist attitude about what they think is best for America? Would you have dared to have chided them about the vulgarity, the over the top sexualization and demoralizing of our values? Perhaps you could have reminded them that there are still some very intelligent people in the heartland who are weary with the profanity, the anti-war, anti-American, constant publicizing of their political beliefs on the airwaves and in our movie theaters. Least we forget the rap music, artistic expression and all.

We are under attack, that is for certain, but the assault on our consciousness is coming from our fellow Americans who have openly embraced the far left morality that is sold to us by the many friends of Barack Obama. The Western culture which dominates Hollywood is taking God's Words and His Commandments and making a mockery of them. They have permeated our American virtues and perverted them into acceptance.

We have lowered the bar, stacked the decked with sinful silence, and consequently, all of this has all boiled to personal responsibility, and having to deal with the consequences of our own actions, and it isn't all about the greed; but it is about the immorality of the sinner which lies in all of us. Along with that personal responsibility comes the freedom of knowing that we can resist sin, and we have "real freedom" because as Christians we have the gift of Peace in Christ.

John 16:33 - Jesus said, "These things I have spoken to you, that in ME you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

“We are either a United people, or we are not. If the former, let us, in all maters of general concern act as a nation, which have national objects to promote, and a national character to support.” — George Washington

Terri- you're a classic example of the kind of thinking that prevails when a racist meets a religious fundamentalist. You said"So I ask you, what sort of influence did Reverend Wright have on the Senator? We know the teaching habits that were hurled at Trinity United Church of Christ, especially the Sunday after September 11, 2001 when Wright damned America, using God's name:"

I suppose you don't recall that Bush reprimanded both Jerry falwell and Pat Robertson for saying 9/11 was punishment - G-d "withdrew" his support of America and Falwell said we deserved it."God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve."- Jerry Falwell re 9/11

A few days later outrage was so great that Falwell apologized "Falwell told CNN: "I would never blame any human being except the terrorists, and if I left that impression with gays or lesbians or anyone else, I apologize." Of course reading the transcript there is absolutely no question both Robertson and Falwell blamed Americans who happened to not hold their insanely fundamentalist views. So these 2 white preachers get a pass but Wright doesn't? Uh uh Terri.
Then you said:" I would like to get into the relationships with Senator Obama, Hollywood, the filth it glamorizes, and his alignment with most on the West Coast, but I will leave that for another time. Somehow though, greed and Hollywood seem to go together like milk and cookies."

that's ok- I'll get into it. Not only does Obama have Hollywood celebs in his corner, so does McCain (Chuck Norris, Britney Spears - yes, her!, and others) they have BOTH had Hollywood fundraiser.

As for greed and morality, let me throw out a few "Christian" names now associated with greed and immorality: Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart; Jim Jones (hmmm- what's with Jim?). Shouldn't you be questioning THEIR parenting skills and pastoring skills instead of wondering about the Obama's, who to all intents and purposes have raised 2 beautiful little girls. You'll note, neither of them are pregnant out of wedlock.

I don't care if you are a republican- I know many good people who are. I resent that you use religious beliefs to promote a brand of repulsive, political lies that have nothing to do with the teachings of any faith. Lie to yourself, if you wish- don't try it here. Only a hypocrite or a fool would quote the bible, not to express the truth of what it says, but to justify their own racism and politics.

Ah, the Big Lie:

"Secular progressives do not understand the emptiness which greed poses for them."

Did 'Secular progressives' vote for these religious conservatives who deregulated the abuse of our money in the name of the 'Invisible Hand Of The market?'

Look again.

[QUOTE]The other is this you-tube of Larry Lessig, and is an unpaid advisor to Obama. If your know Christ, you will know that this is blasphemy and must be rejected by all who claim to know Christ as their Savior. Jesus has something to say about blasphemy in Matthew. Matthew 12:31 "And so I tell you, every sin will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL1Z7_IMFs4[QUOTE]

You remind me of the little old ladies that I used to listen to when I was growing up, who loudly proclaimed that that "Devil church music" that uses guitars was a Satanic influence on the Good Lord's church. Please don't conflate "I don't like X" with "X is blasphemy". Did you actually listen to the underlying message of the song? Think about the justaposition of Jesus' "outdated and antiquated" message with the medium of the song, and the with the images of Jesus and the modern world.

Mr. Wallis,

In your article "It's the Morality Sinner" you make the following statement:

"The behavior of too many on Wall Street is a violation of biblical ethics; the teachings of Christianity, Judaism, and other faiths condemn the greed, selfishness, and cheating that have been revealed in corporate behavior over decades now and denounce their callous mistreatment of employees. Read your Bible."

So, I wonder, Mr. Wallis, when you say, "read our Bibles", and then speak about the teachings of Christianity and Judaism, something very "relevant" is missing, and that is Scripture, which backs up, and points to the credibility of your opinion. In fact, you could have started out with the basic definition of greed as it is found on Merriam Webster Online: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed. I always come back to this when expressing myself, facts are stronger than opinions, and when we are making an argument, our words need to be based on facts.

Greed seems to be a word easily thrown around with the collapse of the many financial institutions on Wall Street, which really goes back to the problem with the housing market and the individuals who got loans that had no business getting them. However, most people (sorry to say) relate to the word "greed" as it is used in the movie "Wall Street". I use that analogy to point out that so many people are just plain and simply, shallow. They skim the surface of the word (greed) ignoring the fact that greed is completely about being selfish, self serving, an excessive desire, a longing for what others have, thinking it will fill that void which lies deep within each person's heart and mind. That innermost place where (if we are Christians) the Holy Spirit dwells and that is in our hearts. I would like to get into the relationships with Senator Obama, Hollywood, the filth it glamorizes, and his alignment with most on the West Coast, but I will leave that for another time. Somehow though, greed and Hollywood seem to go together like milk and cookies.

So in speaking about greed we could start with Adam and Eve, but The Ten Commandments, as it is written in Exodus is where I would like to begin. Exodus 20:17 says; "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor." This is a Commandment which is embraced by both the Christian and Judeo Faith. To covet is to "wish" to have the possessions of others. It goes beyond admiring someone else's things, but it is a resentment over what other people have that we don't. Discontentment with our circumstances and our envy of other another person's place on the money chain is greed, and no one else's fault but the individual who struggles with that sin.

Secular progressives do not understand the emptiness which greed poses for them. They seek, but do not know, that we can only be complete through a meaningful, deep, abiding relationship with the Living God. The void that greed digs in us, can only be fulfilled when we are satisfied with where we are in Jesus Christ. And Jesus Christ talked about seeking HIM in Matthew Chapter 7.

Ask, Seek, Knock

Matthew 7:7-12

7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. 9 "Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

Here in this scripture, we are taken back to one of the many teachings of Jesus Christ. We ask Him in prayer when there is something we need, not want. We seek Him, when there is something we cannot find: such as peace of mind, a calm heart, an unshakable Faith, Hope in Christ, not ANY man. I think you understand my meaning there. Hope is not in man, period. We knock when there is something closed to us. There is a saying that many Christians use as a coined phrase, "when God closes a door, He opens a window." I reject that statement, because I believe and know the following to be true, sometimes God just wants us to be still and wait upon Him without looking for that preverbal window. In Psalm 46:10 God said: 10 "Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth."

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Then you said the following:

"The strongest critics of the Wall Street gamblers call it putting self-interest above the public interest; the Bible would call it a sin. I don't know about the church- or synagogue - going habits of the nation's top financial managers but if they do attend services, I wonder if they ever hear a religious word about the practices of arranging huge personal bonuses and escape hatches while destroying the lives of people who work for them. We now need wisdom from the economists, prudence from the business community, and renewal courses on the common good from the nation's religious leaders. It's time for the pulpit to speak--for the religious community to bring the Word of God to bear on the moral issues of the American economy. The Bible speaks of such things from beginning to end, so why not our pastors and preachers?"

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Mr. Wallis, I would like to remind you that people all over America are very familiar with what some preachers have been teaching in their churches. And you, of all people, who happens to be a strong supporter of Barack Obama, should know this better than anyone else. So I ask you, what sort of influence did Reverend Wright have on the Senator? We know the teaching habits that were hurled at Trinity United Church of Christ, especially the Sunday after September 11, 2001 when Wright damned America, using God's name: Exodus 20:7 "You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses His name." The Sunday's following 9/11 churches and synagogues were filled to the brim. Ask any preacher or Rabbi about it and they will tell you they believed we were about to enter into a revival in America. Pastor Greg Laurie's devotion from September 13, 2008 talked about this: http://www.harvest.org/devotional/index.php/2/2008/09/13.html

When you say that the Bible speaks of such things from the beginning to the end, why not our preachers and pastors....I ask "Why Wright?" Where was the judgement and leadership skills Barack Obama needed to walk out of Trinity when Reverend Wright preached those sermons? Now, I know you will say that Senator Obama did not know about these "specific sermons", but please, let's not insult one another's intelligence with that lame excuse. I think, you know as I do that when we are attending a church in a community where we live and serve the people around us, we are aware of what is being preached and taught when you miss a Sunday service.

You seem to want accountability on a more "global world view" which serves the platform of the Democratic Party. In my opinion, based on fact, you are cherry picking certain issues and disregarding other important traditional "faith based values" like abortion, Infanticide, the sanctity of marriage, and personal responsibility.

In closing I would like you to ponder a few things that I know about Senator Obama - his own words from 2004 and his unpaid adviser Larry Lessig. Then perhaps your next article could address these moral dilemmas with some Scripture to back up how any of this is moral, or excusable. Certainly you would agree that Obama can not have it both ways?

One you tube is of Obama in December of 2004 where Barack Obama talks about how his three year old daughter (at the time) who loves to listen, and dance to the rap song, "Drop it like It's Hot." Obama said that his daughter thought the song was "Drop it like a Sock." And in this same video the Senator says he appreciates his daughter's pimp? And please, do look up the lyrics to the video. I think these two video's alone, at least for me, present a moral challenge and show a lack of judgement on Obama's part. Also notice that Michele Obama is sitting right behind her husband on that stage when he makes the remarks about the rap song. I really do question their parenting skills. Shouldn't you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Si8h4zgqA

The other is this you-tube of Larry Lessig, and is an unpaid advisor to Obama. If your know Christ, you will know that this is blasphemy and must be rejected by all who claim to know Christ as their Savior. Jesus has something to say about blasphemy in Matthew. Matthew 12:31 "And so I tell you, every sin will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL1Z7_IMFs4

So as you say, "It's the Morality, Sinner" please ask Mr. Obama and yourself, what is your responsibility?

There is an ethic to corporate culture today but it has little to do with the ethics of Jesus or the Hebrew prophets. It derives from Milton Friedman and Hayek and other ideologues of unfettered markets. It says 'the only obligation of the corporation is to increase shareholder value.'
In such a world, 'good will' is a line on a general ledger account.
I work in that world and have seen the faux moral outrage at anyone's action that might interfere with quarterly profits to protect jobs or inform consumers of product quality or their rights.
Corporate leaders may be members of churches but they join for the same reason that they join country clubs.

What can you do? You the devils and details. I'm good to go. Sink the pink, it's all old fashioned, in the bag.

"As the church has been conspicuously silent as the USA has killed and maimed thousands upon thousands of innocent people repeatedly for five years"

It is unfair to speak here of "the church" as if there is one univocal voice that speaks for all Christians in the United States, or indeed in the world. Popes Benedict and John Paul have both been vocal about their stance against the war in Iraq. Furthermore, Wallis himself has written about how he feels the war to be an unjust one.

It also seems a bit silly to criticize Wallis for addressing the financial crisis when that was the topic picked by the moderators of this forum. If you have a complaint about the subject matter, take it up with them, not with the panelists.

Cheers,
Dave

When we provide bailout for our growing and grown children, they escape the consequences of bad decisions. No surprise that their behavior does not change. With bigger bailouts for overgrown children (read "greedy, self-centered, self-serving") with giant footprints, what do we expect to achieve other than condoning the behavior. Nothing changes. Surprise! Surprise!

On a personal basis, I see this as a time to reassess family values and goals: to become much wiser in the use of our money, the use of our time, the moral and social investments we are making in our young ones, the legacies by which we will one day be remembered and measured. To lose this opportunity by going for the quick fix is grievous.

Business is not just Big Business. We all do business in one form or another. Time to evaluate! Am I a user or an abuser? Are others better off because of their contact with me? Or, are they feeling insignificant and wondering why? Am I fully honest with my financial transactions or looking for sneaky ways to get more than is due me? The list goes on. This is a time for brutal self assessment, not just finger-pointing and blame. Like it or not, our economic situation is a reflection of values that we have allowed by consent or by refusing to get involved in change. Now we stand in a time of change. Let's not lose this opportunity by becoming complacent with a quick fix that really fixes nothing.

What if I take this opportunity for self-assessment and change?
What if I use my personal power with intent to bring about change?
What if this change spreads to my sphere of influence?
What if this is a time to plant seeds for a new and better harvest?
What if?

As the church has been conspicuously silent as the USA has killed and maimed thousands upon thousands of innocent people repeatedly for five years, I would think inattention to the current financial crisis is the least of your worries.
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Google is your friend. There are lots of religious responses to the war in Iraq, some in agreement with your "statement of fact" (like my church - but I am not egotistic enough to pretend that my views are Elemental Truths), and some in disagreement. Nonetheless - most humans can focus their ethical and moral compasses at more than one issue at a time.

As the church has been conspicuously silent as the USA has killed and maimed thousands upon thousands of innocent people repeatedly for five years, I would think inattention to the current financial crisis is the least of your worries.

You and your imaginary friends are irrelevant at this point. Please go. Just go.