Created in the Image of God

Folks,
I may have overstated the size of the Nigerian Province. I had seen the 38 Million used by another poster and accepted it without checking it. The figures I have seen in the source I use for international statistics on Protestant Churches--the adherents.com web site-- reports a figure for Nigerian Anglicans that is significantly lower, but the figure is 10 years out-of-date:

"Anglican Nigeria 17,500,000 - - - 1998 *LINK* Barr, Robert (AP). "Bishops Find Agreement Elusive During Conference " in Salt Lake Tribune (Aug. 8, 1998). the Anglican Communion is now mainly an African church: 17.5 million members in Nigeria and 8 million in Uganda dwarf the Church of England's 2 million active members - roughly the size of Anglican churches in Kenya, South Africa and southern India."

Another web site also reports a similar figure for Nigeria. Here are total worldwide figures per that website ( http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/usable-statistics/ ):
Membership of the Anglican Communion

England 44 Dioceses 26,000.000 Nominal Figure
Nigeria: 100+ Dioceses 17,500,000
Uganda 32 Dioceses 9,600,000
Australia 23 Dioceses 3,998,444
Kenya 28 Dioceses 2,500,000
USA 111 Dioceses 2,400,000
South India 21 Dioceses 2,000,000
Southern Africa 23 Dioceses 2,000,000
Sudan 24 Dioceses 2,000,000
Tanzania 17 Dioceses 1,379,366
North India 26 Dioceses 1,250,000
England 44 Dioceses 1,200,000 Realistic figure
Rwanda 9 Dioceses 1,000,000
West Africa 12 Dioceses 1,000,000
Pakistan 8 Dioceses 800,000
West Indies 8 Dioceses 770,000
Canada 29 Dioceses 740,262 Update 641,845 members in 2001 and 227,000 identifiable givers in 1999.
Central Africa 12 Dioceses 600,000
Burundi 5 Dioceses 425,000
Ireland 12 Dioceses 410,000
Congo 6 Dioceses 300,000
Papua New Guinea 5 Dioceses 246,000
Aotearoa/New Zealand
and Polynesia 9 Dioceses 220,659
SE Asia 4 Dioceses 168,079
Melanesia 8 Dioceses 163,884
Philippines 5 Dioceses 118,187
Brazil 7 Dioceses 103,021 Total since foundation of the Province
Brazil current 40,000 Baptised, 25,000 Confirmed, 8000 communicants, 10,000 regular members. Updated from Brazil July 2007
Wales 6 Dioceses 93,721
Indian Ocean 5 Dioceses 90,486
Japan 11 Dioceses 57,273
Scotland 7 Dioceses 53,553
Sri Lanka 1 Diocese 52,500
Myanmar 6 Dioceses 49,257
Bermuda 1 Diocese 24,800
Hong Kong 3 Dioceses 29,000
Mexico 5 Dioceses 25,000
Southern Cone
Of Latin America 7 Dioceses 22,490
Korea 3 Dioceses 14,558
Central American
Region 5 dioceses 13,409
Bangladesh 2 Dioceses 12,500
Jerusalem and
The Middle East 4 Dioceses 10,000
Lusitanian Church 1 Diocese 5,000
Spanish Reformed
Episcopal Church 1 Diocese 5,000
Cuba 1 Diocese 3,000

Folks,
PGR88 asks:

"Can anyone direct me to a website that gives history and statistics about the Episcopal Church ie) number of members, parishes, major historical developments?"

The statistics on the Episcopal Church are in seeming irreversible decline. One good source is the ARDA site: http://www.thearda.com/

It shows the following about the Protestant Episcopal Church (that was its old name; it has now chosen to delete the "Protestant" modifier). In 1959, Episcopaldom peaked in terms of membership at 3,444,265 adherents served by 8,708 ministers in 7,657 parishes. By 2003, the membership had suffered a 33.7% decline to 2,284,233 while the clerisy had more than doubled to 15,872 ministers and the number of local churches had declined minimally to 7,220 parishes.

As to major historical developments, the Episcopal Church is the US branch of the Anglican Church, which wsa begun by Henry VIII in Parliament in 1534 when he forced the separation of the Catholic Church in England from the Papacy. That breach was ended by Mary I in Parliament in an Act of 1554 which again submitted the Church in England to Roman Obedience. The breach with Rome was reinstituted by Elizabeth I in Parliament by an Act in January 1559. The breach has continued since then.

The Anglican Church has propagated itself primarily in places controlled by the British Empire. As a result, the Episcopal Church in the US was created during the colonial period and had the privileged status of an established church in a number of colonies. At the conclusion of the Revolution, the Anglican Church was disestablished and the Episcopal Church separated itself from the Church of England. A bishop, Samuel Seabury was ordained. From another website, I found this definition of the events leading up to Seabury's ordination as bishop:

"A crucial date for members of the Episcopal Church in the United States of America is the consecration of the first Bishop of the Anglican Communion in the United States. During the colonial era, there had been no Anglican bishops in the New World; and persons seeking to be ordained as clergy had had to travel to England for the purpose. After the achievement of American independence, it was important for the Church in the United States to have its own bishops, and an assembly of Connecticut clergy chose Samuel Seabury to go to England and there seek to be consecrated as a bishop.

However, the English bishops were forbidden by law to consecrate anyone who would not take an oath of allegiance to the British Crown. He accordingly turned to the Episcopal Church of Scotland, which had no connection with the government (having originated around 1690 with the non-Jurors: those Anglicans who, having sworn allegiance to James Stuart, would not during his lifetime swear allegiance to William of Orange, and who were accordingly all but outlawed under the new dynasty), and was accordingly free to consecrate him without political complications.

In Aberdeen, 14 November 1784, Samuel Seabury was consecrated to the Episcopate by the Bishop and the Bishop Coadjutor of Aberdeen and the Bishop of Ross and Caithness."

Since then, the Episcopal Church has been a US institution. It lost a lot of its US membership to the Methodist Church, which broke away from the Church of England overtime, even though its founders the Wesleys had been clergy of the Church. The American EpiscopalChurch has forged some stronger relations with the Church of England and similar churches throughout the World over the past 200 years, as a result of the English Church's development of the "Anglican Communion" concept.

That relationship, though, has been called into serious question as the result of the American Church's liberal positions on women bishops and openly active gay clergy. Much of the Anglican Commmunion believes those positions to be inconsistent with Christianity. The Nigerian Province of Anglicandom, which is almost 17 times the size of the American Church, for example, is protesting the Episcopal Church's 2003 ordination of the openly actively gay bishop of New Hampshire.

I am sure there are a lot of important developments that I missed, but those are the things that come immediately to mind.

Hi, Paganplace,

You replied to Spidey the blasphemer, "The Bible also speaks against public piety. Doesn't seem to have slowed *you* up any."

Right you are. Spidey apparently has not read that part of Matthew. Actually, he apparently has never read the Sermon on the Mount, Beatitudes and all. In fact, if Spidey actually ever read the words of Jesus in the Gospels about love, he never believed them. I have never seen such hatred in another person.

And you do realize, Spidey, that the early Christians had a lot of women as clergy: it was a matter of some comment to the ancients, actually: Paul simply *didn't like it,* and someone made his words about it 'The Word Of God' when they were having some trouble controlling the Gnostics and others.

" spiderman2:

"The Bible speaks against women preaching. Churches which allow women to preach does not understand the Bible."

The Bible also speaks against public piety. Doesn't seem to have slowed *you* up any.

@Jazzy - 'Is not the "King of England" the highest human power in the Church of England?'

You mean kings like Elizabeth I, Victoria and Elizabeth II?

@Jazzy - 'Is not the "King of England" the highest human power in the Church of England?'

You mean kings like Elizabeth I, Victoria and Elizabeth II?

The Bible speaks against women preaching. Churches which allow women to preach does not understand the Bible.

The BLIND leading the blind.

The whole debate about whether women should be this or that -- regardless of whether that debate takes place in Anglican, Episcopalian or even Roman Catholic circles -- is man made, literally. We have so far to go to stop being childish and become childlike in our acceptance that God & Jesus are about LOVE -- of them & of each other. Everything flows from that and in that we are all equal. It is so simple & it is our human weakness that complicates the issue.

So to all women leaders of churches everywhere, I saw thank you and amen!

As a practicing Episcopalian, I applaud the decision of the Church of England to allow women bishops. I have known a number of women priests, and accept them fully, and found that I liked and respected them highly. Ordaining women is one of the greatest steps forward this church has ever done.

God bless.

You mean, those loving, Christ-like bishops who refused to even take communion during the same service as Kathleen Jefferts Schori and who advocate jailing homosexuals for having the audacity to talk to each other in public might take their toys - er, dioceses - which are largely dependent on funds from the evil liberal Churches in the Anglican Communion and go home?

I somehow doubt it (see the funding issue), but good for them if they do.

Pride goeth before destruction. The egotistically-driven policy authorizing Anglican women priests to be ordained bishops will rend the Anglican Communion asunder within the year. The "Yea" voters' haughtiness ordered schism for lunch.

To the very Reverend Dixon,
Thank you for your graceful insight and for the work that God has done in your life. I give thanks daily for the Epicopal Church and its' openess to God's grace in our own day. Who knows what God has in store in the future. I wait with great hope.

The problem with the Anglican churches in the industrialized world is that their members have become too educated to believe in religions. The U.S. Episcopal church is something 1/3 the size it used to be and the Church of England is almost non-existent. Nigeria alone has more active Anglicans (38 million is the last number I saw) than the entire developed English-speaking world combined.

Women bishops?!?!?!

What horse-drawn turnip truck did they just fall off?

"In Christ there is neither man nor woman."

To me this means that a woman can hold any position in the church that a man can. The fact that women did not travel across continents to preach the word, as had the early apostles, is due to the social norms of the time. That does not mean it shall always be that way.

Stop the presses, Dave. An unsourced blog claims that "many" Anglicans will join the Roman church? Define "many". Oh, and explain to me how people who are already members of the Anglican Catholic Church, which has already separated from the authority of the CoE and, in fact, is based in America, joining the Roman Catholic Church represents a sign of how women bishops will break up the CoE.

Face it. The vast majority of Anglicans in North America and UK support women bishops and priests. There will be no mass exodus, there will be no groundswell of support for returning to "traditional" interpretations of Scripture. In 20 years, even fewer people will agree with the traditionalists than do now. In 40, they will find themselves relegated to a position slightly higher than those who still believe that the God mandates racial discrimination and segregation.

The bible is very clear about the important role women play in the life of believers. The Lord as well as the Apostle Paul never devalued the role of women. Man and Woman were both made in the image AND the likeness of the Elohim, in other words both sexes had the bodily shape of the Elohim as well as the mental capacity to think like the Elohim. Once baptized they are "one in Christ Jesus". This however does not teach that our women should be leaders of the believers - please show me the bible reference that proves this NOT human reasoning.

Can anyone direct me to a website that gives history and statistics about the Episcopal Church ie) number of members, parishes, major historical developments?

thx

Sorry Ms. Dixon,

The trend in England is very different. Many Anglicans are opting to "swim the Tiber" and return to the R. C. church because of the female Bishop issue.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/damian_thompson

Once there, scoll down to:

"C of E Bishop will lead Anglicans to Rome" (because of the female Bishop issue).

Then scroll down one further to:

"The C of E is Protestant again."

Good luck to all.

Those who bend the bible of The Image of God being a woman are going to hell. Women are not the image of God. A woman was the mother of Jesus son of God.

I wish I could agree with the descision, but I cannot seperate tradition from religion as easily. Is it not the tradition of the religion that dictates the high holy days and ritualistic behaviours. Would it not be equivalent to say that organizational structure is also dictated by tradition? Is not the "King of England" the highest human power in the Church of England? Is this not traditional as well? How does marriage fit in? Is it not based upon traditional rules? Is not the English/American societey governed by traditional laws as well? Is not relgion and Christianity in general dictated by the traditional teachings?

So this break from tradition has now been masked as a step towards equality, where in fact the search for sexual equality is somewhat of a fool's errand, considering that males and females could not be any more different. They are all eually humans, but if something calls for a man, then it is a man's role to fill, and conversly when something calls for a woman, then then it is a woman's role to fill. If something calls for a human, than anyone can do it.

By severing ties with tradition, the religion moves away from its origin. Seeing that the CofE has taken a great number of steps away from "Original" Christianity, I am not surprised in the least that this descision was made.

A question to ask is whether a man can become a sister of the church (that is if the CofE has sisters), now that a woman can become a father of the church?

I moved from the Roman church to the Anglican Communion precisely because it ordains women as priests and consecrates them as bishops. Full equality in the service of the Lord. Those who say that Christ ordained only men, and we must follow that even today, are ignoring the realities of the society of Christ's day. Women were not as free to move about independently of their families then as they are today. Christ did everything he could to show that women mattered as much as men to Him. And so should we today.

She's elated as her faith community disintegrates around her? That's just pure ego. The Episcopal-Anglican Church will be no more in just a few years, what with it's weak and spineless faith, homosexuality and birth control, and above all with its total lack of the concept of personal sin.

Jesus was the first to recognize women not as secondary citizens, but as equally spiritual as men. Mary Magdalen is proof of that. He appeared to the women first upon his resurrection. Why? Because they are not less than men, but equally worthy.
So the church is better at following their own perception as that of Jesus's? Jesus also did not condemn any gays or lesbians. He could have, but did not. Why? Could it be that love is love in the big scheme of things?

"All that we hate we become or it is born to us"

God bless!

Women copying men. What advance is that for women?

Congratulations to the Anglicans for taking the step of recognizing women as human beings created in God's image and capable of ministering to God's people. The so-called "traditionalists" in the Anglican church should avail themselves of membership in a very large church headquartered in Rome should they find themselves emasculated by having a woman bishop in their diocese. The Roman church still denies women access to participate in worship equally including the right to administer the sacriments, and would be a terrific fit for the right-wing radical Anglicans who think that women should be subservient to males.

As a Daughter of the King (a prayer and service order of the Episcopal Church), I am thrilled with the decision by the Church of England to consecrate women to be bishops.
By the way, did you ever notice that Jesus did not exclude women? He was inclusive, not exclusive. If we claim to be His followers, so should we be.

You're right, they're wrong so let's shove it down their throats, huh, Jane? Take this to the bank. The C of E will shortly become the same pseudo-spiritual train wreck the Episcopal Organization is now.

In Christ there is neither man nor woman.

Scripture tells us to ordain women at the same levels as men.

It took a female Reverend to bring me to God after walking away from the Church of Christ where they absolutely do believe that women should not be authority over men.