The Pope and Islam: Let's Stop Kidding Each Other

FIRST I WANT TO TELL YOU TAHT EVERY NON-MUSLIM WANT TO FALSIFY ISLAM BUT THEY CAN`T DO THIS BECAUSE ISLAM IS THE TRUE RELIGION OF THE WORLD,,,,

NO ONE CAN COMPETE WITH ISLAM,
ISLAM HAS TOLD US 14 HUNDREDS YEARS BEFORE THAT MODREN WORLD IS DISCOVERING NOW

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.

To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers with pure conscience, that without ceasing I have remembrance of thee in my prayers night and day;

Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

charity out of a pure heart - heart
keep thyself pure - soul
faith in a pure conscience - mind

but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace
with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy our brother, unto Philemon our dearly beloved, and fellowlabourer,

“a prisoner of Jesus Christ”

And Joseph was brought down to Egypt; and Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh, captain of the guard, an Egyptian, bought him of the hands of the Ishmeelites, which had brought him down thither.
And the Lord was with Joseph, and he was a prosperous man; and he was in the house of his master the Egyptian.
And Joseph's master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the king's prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.

“Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh, captain of the guard, an Egyptian”
“the house of his master the Egyptian.”

O Lord my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me:
Lest he tear my soul like a lion, rending it in pieces, while there is none to deliver.
O Lord my God, if I have done this; if there be iniquity in my hands;
If I have rewarded evil unto him that was at peace with me; (yea, I have delivered him that without cause is mine enemy:)
Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust. Selah.
Arise, O Lord, in thine anger, lift up thyself because of the rage of mine enemies: and awake for me to the judgment that thou hast commanded.
So shall the congregation of the people compass thee about: for their sakes therefore return thou on high.
The Lord shall judge the people: judge me, O Lord, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.
Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.
My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.

Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the Lord. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.
He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.

Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.
It is vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows: for so he giveth his beloved sleep.
Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.
Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the Lord, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the Lord: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more.
At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.

“Judah shall walk with the house of Israel”

The greatest secret has yet to be revealed. When it is revealed then you will know TRUTH. At that given time The Word of the LORD will be clearly proven.

Therefore saith the Lord, the Lord of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:
And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:
And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellers as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.
Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.
And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the Lord shall be consumed.
For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen.
For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water.
And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.

And I will restore thy judges as at the first

Messianic Jews are entitled to Israeli citizenship according to the Law of Return if their father is Jewish, according to a precedent-setting ruling handed down last week by the High Court of Justice.

Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

The law defines a Jew as "a person who was born of a Jewish mother or has become converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion."

All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
For thy name's sake, O Lord, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
What man is he that feareth the Lord? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.
The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion
converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion
converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion
converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion

The city of righteousness, the faithful city.

My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O Lord; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up.
“Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.”
“the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice”
“when ye heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness”
“that ye came near unto me”

The Spirit of the Lord spake by me
I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up.
“the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice”
“when ye heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness”
“that ye came near unto me”

Thou leddest thy people like a flock by the hand of Moses and Aaron.
“he is at my right hand”
“I looked on my right hand, and beheld, but there was no man that would know me”

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not

Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said,
The Spirit of the Lord spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.

the truth shall make you free

My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O Lord; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up.

“Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.”
“the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice”
“when ye heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness”
“that ye came near unto me”

The Spirit of the Lord spake by me
I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up.
“the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice”
“when ye heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness”
“that ye came near unto me”

Thou leddest thy people like a flock by the hand of Moses and Aaron.
“he is at my right hand”
“I looked on my right hand, and beheld, but there was no man that would know me”

And ye shall serve the Lord your God, and He shall bless thy bread, and thy water

“He shall bless thy bread”

“With him will I speak mouth to mouth”
“Thou shalt feed my people Israel”
“The lips of the righteous feed many”
“I have preached righteousness, I have not refrained my lips”

I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the Lord.

“He shall bless thy water”

“drinketh water of the rain of heaven”
“My doctrine shall drop as the rain”
“where were twelve wells of water, and threescore and ten palm trees: and they encamped there by the waters.”
“The Lord is the portion of mine inheritance and of my cup”
“I will take the cup of salvation”

Soul- bread= my mouth speaketh wisdom my lips righteousness
Breath- water= My doctrine my cup

the table of the covenant;

Soul- bread= my mouth speaketh wisdom my lips righteousness
Breath- water= My doctrine my cup

Faith, Hope, Love, Peace

I ask you wise men, what more do you require of me

When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, Lord, will I seek.

And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the Lord that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.
All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

Thy mercy, O Lord, is in the heavens; and thy faithfulness reacheth unto the clouds.

Be of good courage, and he shall strengthen your heart, all ye that hope in the Lord.

Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.

The Lord will give strength unto his people; the Lord will bless his people with peace.

See

Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.

See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms

“the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds.”

“Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Jeremiah, what seest thou? And I said, I see a rod of an almond tree.
Then said the Lord unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it.”

The Lord will give strength unto his people
And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.

Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is The Lord.

the Lord will bless his people with peace

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

which giveth the sun for a light by day
the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night

Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Then said the Lord unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it.

The WOE of Isaiah

I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.

“I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.”

In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live.
Then Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the Lord,
Then he turned his face to the wall, and prayed unto the Lord, saying,
I beseech thee, O Lord, remember now how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore.

“Isaiah the prophet” “turned his face to the wall, and prayed unto the Lord”
“I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart”

The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.

Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him.

Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!

Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!

Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:

Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.

Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed;

Woe to the multitude of many people, which make a noise like the noise of the seas; and to the rushing of nations, that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters!

Woe to the land shadowing with wings, which is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia:

From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said, My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.

Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!

Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.

Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?

Woe to the rebellious children, saith the Lord, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:

Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help; and stay on horses, and trust in chariots, because they are many; and in horsemen, because they are very strong; but they look not unto the Holy One of Israel, neither seek the Lord!

Woe to thee that spoilest, and thou wast not spoiled; and dealest treacherously, and they dealt not treacherously with thee! when thou shalt cease to spoil, thou shalt be spoiled; and when thou shalt make an end to deal treacherously, they shall deal treacherously with thee.

Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?

Rabbi Arthur Schneier, the leader of the congregation, welcomed the pope, who was seated on a wooden chair to the left of the bimah, the raised platform, where the rabbi spoke from a lectern.

“In our lifetime, your holiness, both of us have experienced the ravages of war, the Holocaust, man’s inhumanity to man — and also tasted the joy of freedom.”

Rabbi, think how you addressed the pope as your holiness.
He is neither Isaac, Joseph, Aaron, or David.

Then Isaac sowed in that land, and received in the same year an hundredfold: and the Lord blessed him.

And it came to pass, that when Isaac was old, and his eyes were dim, so that he could not see, he called Esau his eldest son, and said unto him, My son: and he said unto him, Behold, here am I.
And Jacob went near unto Isaac his father; and he felt him, and said, The voice is Jacob's voice, but the hands are the hands of Esau.

Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:
The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)
Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

And when Joseph's brethren saw that their father was dead, they said, Joseph will peradventure hate us, and will certainly requite us all the evil which we did unto him.
And they sent a messenger unto Joseph, saying, Thy father did command before he died, saying,
So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.
And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we be thy servants.

And it shall be upon Aaron to minister: and his sound shall be heard when he goeth in unto the holy place before the Lord, and when he cometh out, that he die not.
And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD.
And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be.
And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the Lord.

Lord, how are they increased that trouble me! many are they that rise up against me.
Many there be which say of my soul, There is no help for him in God. Selah.
But thou, O Lord, art a shield for me; my glory, and the lifter up of mine head.
I cried unto the Lord with my voice, and he heard me out of his holy hill.

Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.
The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.
The Lord will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.
Wait on the Lord, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.

O Lord, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living waters.
Heal me, O Lord, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise.
Behold, they say unto me, Where is the word of the Lord? let it come now.
As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day; thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right before thee.

In thy name shall they rejoice all the day: and in thy righteousness shall they be exalted.
For thou art the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted.
For the Lord is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.

neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption

“his eyes were dim”
“The voice is Jacob's voice, but the hands are the hands of Esau.”

“from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel”
“Thy father did command”
“I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin;”
“Behold, we be thy servants.”

“a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD.”
“Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things”

“For the Lord is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king”
“Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.”
“The Lord will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.”

A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary.
O Lord, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living waters.
Heal me, O Lord, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise.
Behold, they say unto me, Where is the word of the Lord? let it come now.
As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day; thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right before thee.
Be not a terror unto me: thou art my hope in the day of evil.
Let them be confounded that persecute me, but let not me be confounded: let them be dismayed, but let not me be dismayed: bring upon them the day of evil, and destroy them with double destruction.
Thus said the Lord unto me; Go and stand in the gate of the children of the people, whereby the kings of Judah come in, and by the which they go out, and in all the gates of Jerusalem;

“they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord”

And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
Speak unto the children of Israel, and take of every one of them a rod according to the house of their fathers, of all their princes according to the house of their fathers twelve rods: write thou every man's name upon his rod.
And thou shalt write Aaron's name upon the rod of Levi: for one rod shall be for the head of the house of their fathers.

“And thou shalt write Aaron's name upon the rod of Levi”
“they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord”
“neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption”

And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

“Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.”
“He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.”

And Joshua said unto all the people, Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us; for it hath heard all the words of the Lord which he spake unto us: it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God.

Thou leddest thy people like a flock by the hand of Moses and Aaron.

And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

“For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye”

I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:

“for sinners also love those that love them”

Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

“nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.”
“For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous”
”I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:”

“Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment”
“the way of the ungodly shall perish”

I ask you wise men, who does the LORD love, the righteous or the sinners.

Where is the Kingdom of Righteousness

Where is the Kingdom of Sinners

Solomon wrote
“The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.”

What is in your heart will come to your mouth

“The heart of the righteous studieth to answer”
Do you study the Torah
What does Moses teach you

“the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.”
Do you spread the gospel to creatures
What does Jesus say to you

the secrets of wisdom, that they are double

The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Devise not evil against thy neighbour, seeing he dwelleth securely by thee.
Strive not with a man without cause, if he have done thee no harm.
Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways.
For the froward is abomination to the Lord: but his secret is with the righteous.
The curse of the Lord is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just.
Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.
The wise shall inherit glory: but shame shall be the promotion of fools.

“For the froward is abomination to the Lord: but his secret is with the righteous.”

Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.

There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

For thou hast said, My doctrine is pure, and I am clean in thine eyes.
But oh that God would speak, and open his lips against thee;
And that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is! know therefore that God exacteth of thee less than thine iniquity deserveth.
Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection?

“And that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is!”

Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, neither will he help the evil doers:
Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing.
They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling place of the wicked shall come to nought.

My glory was Fresh in me, and my bow was renewed in my hand.
Unto me men gave ear, and waited, and kept silence at my counsel.
After my words they spake not again; and my speech dropped upon them.
And they waited for me as for the rain; and they opened their mouth wide as for the latter rain.
If I laughed on them, they believed it not; and the light of my countenance they cast not down.
I chose out their way, and sat chief, and dwelt as a king in the army, as one that comforteth the mourners.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

one on this side of the bank of the river

And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel.
And he said unto them, I am an hundred and twenty years old this day; I can no more go out and come in: also the Lord hath said unto me, Thou shalt not go over this Jordan.

the other on that side of the bank of the river

Howbeit I believed not the words, until I came, and mine eyes had seen it: and, behold, the half was not told me: thy wisdom and prosperity exceedeth the fame which I heard.
Happy are thy men, happy are these thy servants, which stand continually before thee, and that hear thy wisdom.
Blessed be the Lord thy God, which delighted in thee, to set thee on the throne of Israel: because the Lord loved Israel for ever, therefore made he thee king, to do judgment and justice.

“until I came, and mine eyes had seen it, the half was not told me”

"he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is"

She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,
How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord:
They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

“Then Joseph being raised from sleep as the angel of the Lord”
“she had brought forth her firstborn son”

And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

“Then Joseph being raised from sleep as the angel of the Lord”
“she had brought forth her firstborn son”
“And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.”

Then Isaac sowed in that land, and received in the same year an hundredfold: and the Lord blessed him.

“Then Isaac sowed in that land and the Lord blessed him.”

And his father Isaac said unto him, Come near now, and kiss me, my son.
And he came near, and kissed him: and he smelled the smell of his raiment, and blessed him, and said, See, the smell of my son is as the smell of a field which the Lord hath blessed:

“See, the smell of my son is as the smell of a field which the Lord hath blessed:”
“And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.”

“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”
“As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.”

“And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”

“he called his name JESUS”
“And he is the head of the body, the church”
“the firstborn from the dead”
“she had brought forth her firstborn son”
“the firstborn among many brethren.”
“And Abel was a keeper of sheep.”
“we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter”
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:”
And Esau said, I have enough, my brother; keep that thou hast unto thyself.
And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof.
And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above;

"But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you."
"And Esau said, I have enough, my brother; keep that thou hast unto thyself."

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And Jacob lifted up his eyes, and looked, and, behold, Esau came, and with him four hundred men. And he divided the children unto Leah, and unto Rachel, and unto the two handmaids.
And he put the handmaids and their children foremost, and Leah and her children after, and Rachel and Joseph hindermost.
And he passed over before them, and bowed himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.
And Esau ran to meet him, and embraced him, and fell on his neck, and kissed him: and they wept.
And he lifted up his eyes, and saw the women and the children; and said, Who are those with thee? And he said, The children which God hath graciously given thy servant.
Then the handmaidens came near, they and their children, and they bowed themselves.
And Leah also with her children came near, and bowed themselves: and after came Joseph near and Rachel, and they bowed themselves.
And he said, What meanest thou by all this drove which I met? And he said, These are to find grace in the sight of my lord.
And Esau said, I have enough, my brother; keep that thou hast unto thyself.

“he divided the children unto Leah, and unto Rachel, and unto the two handmaids”
“he put the handmaids and their children foremost”
“And he passed over before them”

“These are to find grace in the sight of my lord.”
“I have enough, my brother; keep that thou hast unto thyself.”

Has anyone really studied the beginnings of Genesis. There are different paths, take a close look.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And God blessed them, and God said unto them,

“Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion”
“And God blessed them”

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord made the earth and the heavens,

“in the day that the Lord made the earth and the heavens”

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”

formed man of the dust of the ground
breathed into his nostrils the breath of life
man became a living soul

And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

“the serpent art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field”

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

“Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife cursed is the ground for thy sake”

And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

“Abel was a keeper of sheep”
“the serpent art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field”
“And unto thee shall be his desire”

“but Cain was a tiller of the ground.”
“cursed is the ground for thy sake”
“am I my brother's keeper?”
“and thou shalt rule over him.”

And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: am I my brother's keeper?

And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth

In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam

“blessed them, and called their name Adam”

They have no name.
“Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion”
“And God blessed them”

Who named Adam his name
“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
NO BLESSING FROM THE LORD

“brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them”
she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
“blessed them, and called their name Adam”

And it came to pass, when man began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

“man began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them”

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
“in the day that the Lord made the earth and the heavens”
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man
“man began to multiply on the face of the earth”

formed man of the dust of the ground
breathed into his nostrils the breath of life
man became a living soul
man began to multiply on the face of the earth

Adam
Cain
Seth
Enos- daughters were born

Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

“Now the Lord had said unto Abram I will bless thee.”

And Abraham was old, and well stricken in age: and the Lord had blessed Abraham in all things.

“the Lord had blessed Abraham in all things.”

Then Isaac sowed in that land, and received in the same year an hundredfold: and the Lord blessed him.

“Then Isaac sowed in that land and the Lord blessed him.”
And his father Isaac said unto him, Come near now, and kiss me, my son.
And he came near, and kissed him: and he smelled the smell of his raiment, and blessed him, and said, See, the smell of my son is as the smell of a field which the Lord hath blessed:

“he smelled the smell of his raiment, and blessed him”
“the smell of a field which the Lord hath blessed:”

Look, the only one’s blessed of the Lord is Abraham and Issac

Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
“in the day that the Lord made the earth and the heavens”
“who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above”

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground”
“blessings of the deep that lieth under”

“she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man”
“blessings of the breasts”

“in the day that the Lord made the earth and the heavens”
“man began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them”
“and of the womb”

I ask you wise men, who is one first.
And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the Lord is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.

“As for God, his way is perfect”
Who knows God

In Judah is God known: his name is great in Israel.

“In Judah is God known”
Do you know Judah

There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.

“There were they in great fear”
Do you fear the LORD

It is God that girdeth me with strength, and maketh my way perfect.

“maketh my way perfect”
Who knows the way

The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

“The law of the Lord is perfect”
Who knows the law

I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.

“I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.”
Who knows this house

My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

“My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation”
You shall know the Truth

Mine eyes shall be upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.

“he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.”
The Levi serves Aaron

Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.

“Mark the perfect man”
Do you know him.

I will praise thee, O Lord, among the people: I will sing unto thee among the nations.
For thy mercy is great unto the heavens, and thy truth unto the clouds.
Be thou exalted, O God, above the heavens: let thy glory be above all the earth.

“thy truth unto the clouds”
And the glory of the Lord abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.
And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.

And the Lord descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord.

And the Lord said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

O love the Lord, all ye his saints: for the Lord preserveth the faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.

“the Lord preserveth the faithful”
My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

Great deliverance giveth he to his king; and sheweth mercy to his anointed, to David, and to his seed for evermore.

“Great deliverance giveth he to his king”
Who is the King of Israel

And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,
In all the signs and the wonders, which the Lord sent him to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land,
And in all that mighty hand, and in all the great terror which Moses shewed in the sight of all Israel.

And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the Lord thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

“and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them”

Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the Lord thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the Lord thy God.
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the Lord thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the Lord thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and inquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

“either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded”

To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:
The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:
The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Do you see the LIGHT

As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the Lord is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.

“As for God, his way is perfect”
Who knows God

It is God that girdeth me with strength, and maketh my way perfect.

“maketh my way perfect”
Who knows the way

The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

“The law of the Lord is perfect”
Who knows the law

I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.

“I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.”
Who knows this house

Mine eyes shall be upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.

“he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.”
The Levi serves Aaron

Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.

“Mark the perfect man”
Do you know him.

"the only true and living God." This is Christian vernacular

And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Do you see “Eve; because she was the mother of all living” “make coats of skins” “unto the serpent” “dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life”

I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of man, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
For that which befalleth the sons of man befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Look, “the sons of man” “they themselves are beasts” “all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again” “unto the serpent” “dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life”
“which befalleth the sons of man befalleth beasts” “thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field”

"the only true and living god." “the mother of all living”

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.
Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

I charge you, O daughters of Jerusalem, if ye find my beloved, that ye tell him, that I am sick of love.
What is thy beloved more than another beloved, O thou fairest among women? what is thy beloved more than another beloved, that thou dost so charge us?
My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand.
His head is as the most fine gold, his locks are bushy, and black as a raven.
His eyes are as the eyes of doves by the rivers of waters, washed with milk, and fitly set.
His cheeks are as a bed of spices, as sweet flowers: his lips like lilies, dropping sweet smelling myrrh.
His hands are as gold rings set with the beryl: his belly is as bright ivory overlaid with sapphires.
His legs are as pillars of marble, set upon sockets of fine gold: his countenance is as Lebanon, excellent as the cedars.
His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.

Unto Adam the Lord God make coats of skins
If God were your Father, ye would love me
voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son
Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
to whom he forgave most
this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much
Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins,

if ye find my beloved, that ye tell him, that I am sick of love.
My beloved is white and ruddy
His head is as the most fine gold
His eyes are as the eyes of doves
he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.
The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

I charge you, O daughters of Jerusalem, But wisdom is justified of her children.

For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

“For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye”

I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:

for sinners also love those that love them.
Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

CCNL:

Do you get it, now? Do you see my point? You suffer from the projection typical of many Christians: "the (sic) Jews think they're the chosen people," just like this apparent Protestant (?) (possibly psychopathic bigot).

Only someone who knew nothing whatsoever about Judaism, and I mean nothing, could entertain the notion for a single second that Gideon "who sounded pretty Jewish" could possibly be. And, no, not a Jew for Jesus. Simply not a Jew.

He doubtless expects to see us all ready to convert on the last day. That is why we must "fulfill the promise." Yuk!

Well, if you believe that, do you also believe "we'll all be dead soon anyway"? (Gideon).

Rosemary Ruether. You continue to see us from a Christian perspective, will not recognize that we have our own subjectivity, regardless of our denominations. If you want to debunk the myths, know the myths, my friend.

Best,
Liora

CCNL and Liora:

Good deductions, spot on regarding my previous comments, but no one knows what all "Jews" believe, neither does anyone know what all "Christians" believe. There are far too many sects in both camps to make any sweeping pronouncements of any consequence.

The fact is that most persons in the world do not believe in God; and if most "Jews" and most "Christians" do not believe in the Truth about God, neither invalidates the beliefs of those who have personally experienced God manifest. True believers have always been in the minority in both faiths. The Jews killed all of their prophets, but their voices yet cry out from beyond the grave, and all their prophecies ring true, even to this present generation.

The science of aerodynamics can "prove" that bumblebees can't fly, but that fact doesn't seem to have any effect on the flight of bumblebees.

Iconoclastic attacks are tantamount to pissing into the wind. They might influence the feeble-minded, the faint-hearted, and the quasi-religious, but those who know God are impervious to the endless diatribes spewed by unbelievers through the millenia.

Your time would be better served finding your own path through life, rather than trying to dissuade others from their journey. You'll be dead soon; all dressed up with no where to go.

Last try:

All that the new Conservative Torah does is include essays people like yours truly have read. (I would have included some others, myself, but no matter.) What remains to be seen is how they will actually use the material in services, if they can.

The thing is that the traditional commentary surrounds the Chumash, as it must. The essays are at the end.

Still, I think it's a very interesting development.

I'm trying not to depart too much from your agenda. Don't know how successful I'm being.

What interests me most in Judaism is the ethical dimension, but ethics don't seem to be of concern to the blogggers here.

Liora

P.S. I doubt this will go through, but you never can tell.

One could think contrastively. Jews would not say "the living God" because we do not conceptualize the deity of having the attributes of life and death.

Liora

I just spent about twenty minutes writing a more detailed explanation, but I am being blocked.

I'll give it another try tomorrow. I'm trying to make clear the distinctions among Biblical anthropology, archaeology, history, etc., and fundamental Jewish precepts, which would prevent anyone from speaking as Gideon does, not because they would object, they (we) just don't have that language.

I'll try to write just one sentence from my earlier blocked post. Any Conservative rabbi might note to a university class various evidence suggesting the fiction of Moses, in the next breath shifting to a theological point, using the phrase Moses Rabbino (Moses, our teacher). That wouldn't mean he had changed his mind, and the point doesn't go to paradox.

Best,
Liora

Liora,

Hmmm, Gideon's comments appear to be very Jewish in content. Maybe he is a Jew for Jesus? Or a Conservative Jew? The Conservative Jews are Jews are they not? And when they say the following, what does this mean to you?

From simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

"New Torah For Modern Minds

Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

Such startling propositions -- the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years -- have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity -- until now.

The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called ''Etz Hayim'' (''Tree of Life'' in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine document. "

CCNL,

I don't know if you replied to my earlier post, since I can't access the comments. (For that matter, I don't know if my previous post is up.)

I wanted to add this: To judge from your posts, you don't know the first thing about Judaism, not even those fundamental precepts among which all agree. If you wish to debunk myths, fine, but frequently you attempt to debunk Judaic myths that no Jews have, using language no Jews have ever used.

If you want to join the community of myth debunkers, well join. It's a plural community, with many Jews in it. But know about that of which you speak.

Serena recommended Rosemary Reuther, who still explains Judaism from a Christian perspective, but she gets the fundamental principles clear enougn.

Best,
Liora

CCNL:

Gideon did not say he was Jewish, and he cannot be. No Jew would ever use the phrase, "the only true and living God." This is Christian vernacular, as is this:

"[T]hey are in the unique position of being selectively chosen by God to fulfill his purpose in fulfilling his promise to Abraham. Ultimately, they will triumph."

Frankly, CCNL, with your continual citations, your Ph.D., etc., I cannot understand why you will not take the time to understand just a tad of Judaism. How can Christains see themselves in relation to another religion, and no nothing of it.

Best,
Liora

Gideon,

It is obvious you are suffering from the Three B syndrome i.e. Bred, Born and Brainwashed in your religion and in your case Judaism.

I recommend giving the Conservative Jews views a thorough perusal.

A synopsis of their conclusions:

Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a mythical character as was Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

And 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.
simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

Another brilliant exposition lacking logic. Peace at any price? Trash talk equals truth? Hardly. Would Abraham and Moses make the same argument, i.e., that all religions are basically equal? The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the only true and living God, would hardly concur.

Jews are a slim percentage of the worldwide population, but they are in the unique position of being selectively chosen by God to fulfill his purpose in fulfilling his promise to Abraham. Ultimately, they will triumph.

I find it rather sad that some Jews find it necessary to compromise with the devil. Catholicism is no less false than Islam, so the new convert is twice-fold the child of hell.

Of course we don't want to kill others simply because we disagree, but not killing them does not constitute agreement.

If the pope, preachers, rabbis, and imams/clerics would address the flaws in their religions, the hatred amongst the religions would cease.

To wit:

" Apparently the only "proof" that David even existed other than the highly fictionalized OT, is one piece of broken pottery with some inscriptions with a variety of translations of said inscriptions.

The "powerfull" biblical King David should have left much archeological evidence/proof but none has been found. e.g. jewels, weapons, homes, grave, religious artifacts, non-Jewish attestations.

And what is really odd is for the scripture writers to show that Jesus came from the family of David. This however would require that Joseph was the father of Jesus. So which is it? Joseph was the father or the holy ghost did the deed? If it were the hg, then Jesus was not a descendent of David. "

“Why this association was important in first century Palestine was addressed by "Stories circulated to the effect that Alexander of Macedonia was not only the son of Philip II, but also of the god Zeus-Ammon (Plutarch, Parallel Lives, "Alexander" 2.1-3.2); Plato was the son of Ariston and the god Apollo (Diogenes Laertius, Lives of Eminent Philosophers 3.1-2), and Augustus was the son of Octavius as well as the god Apollo (Suetonius, Lives o f the Caesars 2.4.1-7). The extraordinary character of these elites reputedly stemmed from both their divine origins and their kingroups. Their kin-groups provided one form of legitimation-political right to the throne and/or social status (thus the importance of Joseph in Matthew's genealogy). Their divine procreation provided another: their honor was divinely ascribed, and their greatness as leaders derived from divine paternity."

From: K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998. p.55”

More flaws:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a mythical character as was Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.
simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

3. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

4. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab who also had embellishing/ hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds these acts of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Rabbi Kula's article is well written. I don't agree with much of it...

Firstly converts are usually customarily received into the Church at Easter, admittedly not by the Pope, even if you live in Rome, even though Benedict is the Bishop of Rome. Thus, I don't think Benedict wanted to "stick it to" Islamists, merely to assert Catholic practice unapologetically.

Secondly, Rabbi Kula writes: "a genuine spiritual approach wrestles with, grapples with, and searches for the truth in every view" then declaims relativism. But--who are we kidding? It *is* relativism. A spiritual approach attempts to find and please God. There's a difference between that and finding 'truth' in every view.

Thirdly,Benedict obviously and sincerely believes in Jesus, who said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Light." Now that statement's pretty clear, isn't it? You can't find "some" truth in that statement. It's either all wrong or all right, I mean you can't say "OK, I'll take the Light but easy on the Truth and hold the Way." We're not in a cafeteria.

FWIW I think the Rabbi is correct in that Benedict wanted to make a point. (And he was right to do so.) But Rabbi Kula misunderstands Benedict's actions in downplaying the act. There are a great number of innocent Catholics in countries who might suffer from Islamists' vengeance should the Vatican emphasize the importance of the baptism. The act was the right one, but caution afterwards was also warranted.

What you can't understand is that religion is religion,not politics.

Of course this was "a purely innocent act by the Pope with no ulterior motives" After all, he is the Pope. What else would he do?

This is a mean, punitive, vindictive Pope totally unlike his predecessor.

Mr. Mark,

I hear you. I'll leave Dostoyevsky aside for the moment, in favor of Flannery O'Connor, a self-proclaimed Catholic writer ("I am a Catholic writer"), who said, "Writing is an Incarnational art." Now, I am not Catholic, but I am in awe of some of her work, most especially "Wise Blood."

Most of my Christian students are Catholics and Lutherans. MOst of my colleagues are Christians of one sort of another, the majority agnostics or atheists, at this point. At any rate, it is possible to teach one or two of her short stories, ignoring the Catholic imagery, her ongoing war with philosopy, etc., since colleagues do it, largely because they don't want to be bothered and like the stories.

Well, O'Connor grabbed me, a non-observant Jew, and I dug into her theology, got a handle on her Catholic iconography, her problems with Protestantism. It's a funny thing, Saul Bellow, a Jewish writer, regardless of what he said, was also stunned by O'Connor.

Now, do I think that the hand of Jesus Christ held hers as she composed? Well. No. Did she think so? Definitely not.

But creative processes are mysterious, and Catholicism informed her universe. Would she have written anything of the quality of Wise Blood without it? Very, very difficult to say. But I think not, just as I think she could not have done so without her deep South culture. In fact, so sure am I of both that I teach her as a Southern Catholic writer. To do otherwise would be to do her an injustice. This also means that I can do much less of her work than I'd like, since her Catholicism is layered and my students' is not.

It is not a simple Catholicism, and she feared very little in her short life, battling priests, theologians, et al, all of whom engaged her enthusiastically. It's quite interesting.

I think, too, of Cynthia Ozick. Would she have been a writer without Judaism? No. Tovah Reich wrote a novel, The Master of the Return, which may be a masterpiece (also one of the funniest and learned books I've ever read).

One simply can't reduce the role religion played in these writers' lives to inspiration anymore than one can elevate it emblems of the divine.

Frankly, I don't know how one would describe it. Isms, region, nation, language--all figure, all combine in different writers during different periods.

How did communism figure in Brecht? Would he have produced his masterpieces without it?

Just musing. . . .

"The whole secret of mysticism is this: that man can understand everything by the help of what he does not understand. The morbid logician seeks to make everything lucid, and succeeds in making everything mysterious. The mystic allows one thing to be mysterious, and everything else becomes lucid.”

"Using your logic, one could claim that in this instance, one cannot separate the later sacred music from its secular origins."

True, it is not a one-way street (although modernism/materialism has - for all intents and purposes - destroyed this exchange)

Speedy writes:

"It seems that you are imposing your beliefs (non-beliefs) on art that originated via thoughts of or belief in the transcendental."

Thats could well be. If so, then I admit to being human.

Great art inspires us. The greatest art transports us. All art is the creation of men, no matter what his inspiration. We owe it to ourselves and to our species to explore art and to revel in what man hath wrought. We do that the best when we can leave our preconceptions at the door and enter fully into the world of the artist, but in truth, that's a very difficult equilibrium to arrive at, at least for we humans.

Still, as Oscar Wilde said: art should not strive to be popular, the populace should strive to be artistic.

"Separating the art from it's philosophical / theological moorings seems bogus to me and the work of a "monday morning quarterback" - so to speak."

However, in the examples of Bach and Handel that I provided, the art was written for a secular purpose and later, skillfully adapted for a sacred usage. Using your logic, one could claim that in this instance, one cannot separate the later sacred music from its secular origins.

Nice chatting with you, bwt, Mark.

Also I thought that the article by the Rabbi was the most thought-provoking in this series and very well written.

It seems that you are imposing your beliefs (non-beliefs) on art that originated via thoughts of or belief in the transcendental.

Separating the art from it's philosophical / theological moorings seems bogus to me and the work of a "monday morning quarterback" - so to speak.

In any case, Mark, I need to brush up on my rhetoric and epistemology and get back to you on this...

Speedy writes:

"you are discounting the transcendental themes involved in such great works of art by focusing on the more superficial/day-to-day aspects of the composer's lives/religiosity.

"Was Dostoevsky simply a literary genius who wrote to pass time/collect a check or was there deeper meaning and inspiration found in his work?

"I think you are compartmentalizing to discount the influence of faith in such art."

On the contrary, it is quite obvious that faith played a great part in these works being written. Bach, Handel and Beethoven all had a deep faith in god, and there's no question that their works are profound, but that's not the question.

The question is this: does a god actually exist who somehow 1) provided them with their "god-given" talent, and, 2) reached down with his hand and blessed them with divine inspiration when writing their music?

I would say that these composers could BELIEVE whatever they wanted to believe, but since no god exists (and this is really the crux of the issue), the inspiration that they BELIEVED they were drawing from god was IN REALITY being drawn from their own human minds with a major nod to the conventional beliefs of the time, ie: that god existed, created the world and inspired his children.

Suppose Bach wrote a lengthy letter stating that he drew his inspiration from Odin? Would you make the same claims about Bach being inspired by a deity if that deity wasn't Yahweh/Jesus? What of the music written by ALL religious people who don't follow the Judeo-Xian gods, music that they all claim is inspired my god, perhaps even channeled through them as a mere vessel? Are you willing to say that these people are writing to the glory of Vishnu, with talent supplied by the same?

A poet may be "inspired" by a woman who he thinks is in love with him and may write a beautiful sonnet based on that belief. But if the woman doesn't know the guy or actually dislikes him, the poetry loses none of its beauty or ability to inspire and move others, even though its based on a total falsehood.

And so it goes with music and literature based on the falsehood that god exists. It may well inspire and even move others, but that is IN SPITE of its original "inspiration," not because of any truth in the same.

Impressive knowledge there, Mr. Mark; however, I still think you are discounting the transcendental themes involved in such great works of art by focusing on the more superficial/day-to-day aspects of the composer's lives/religiosity.

Was Dostoevsky simply a literary genius who wrote to pass time/collect a check or was there deeper meaning and inspiration found in his work?

I think you are compartmentalizing to discount the influence of faith in such art.

But, alas, we are ships passing in the night! ;)

Dear Speedy -

A few more things about Bach.

He was once reprimanded for having a tryst with a woman up in the organ loft of his church. Of course, this raises the eternal musical question: what's better? Roses on a piano, or tulips on an organ?

Though he lived and died in the Baroque era, Bach was the first romantic, fathering 22 children (it's true!). Apparently, all of these kids made quite a racket, and when Bach came home for his midday meal, he found that he couldn't stand the noise. His wife solved this by sending him off to work in the morning with some bread and the leftovers from the previous evening's dinner.

And thus was born the first Bach's lunch.

Another true story - Bach married his second cousin.

Dear Speedy -

Well, you just don't get it, do you? I'm not surprised.

Do you believe that Bach sat down with an empty mind and waited for god's inspiration to alight upon him? Think again. Some of Bach's most-famous "sacred works" availed themselves of purely instrumental works that were recycled into his church cantatas and masses. An "homage" cantata that he wrote for some royal big wig was later recycled into his Christmas Oratorio - remove Count What's-His-Name?'s name and insert "Jesus" in its place. Viola! The secular celebration becomes a birth bash for Jesus!

Bach was, in fact, an extremely worldly man, as worldly as he was religious. If you don't believe that Bach was a worldly man, read his letters to various town councils wherein he complains vigorously - and to the penny! - over the money owed to him for his hard work of writing music for church services, for training and directing an under-manned choir and technically inept orchestra and other very banal and secular concerns.

Even Handel's famous "Messiah" which was "written" in a blazing 24 days (and upon which Handel himself remarked, "I do believe that I saw the great god himself revealed" after he finished composing) was - in reality - cobbled together from music he had written years before, including a few movements from concerti grosso he had written for, again, the royal classes.

These men were above anything else, master musicians. That's why their music - be it church-destined or not - all operates at such a high level of mastery and professionalism. Their much-ballyhooed "inspiration from god" was a simple convention of the time...like saying "bless you" when someone sneezes in 2008.

In addition to being master artists, these men were great showmen and self promoters, and a little tale about god "inspiring" your recycled creations doesn't hurt when filling the coffers with the coins of the willingly deceived.

Of course, the ultimate proof that these men ("mere" humans, BTW) were great composers first and god-inspired vessels maybe 5 or 6 pegs down the pecking order is the clear fact that those who draw their musical talent exclusively "from god" WITHOUT possessing the brain or musical aptitude and TRAINING - as did the great composers - write hopelessly embarrassing "music" to the glory of their god.

Ergo, Christian rock...or, as I like to call it, 20 minutes of inspiration WITHOUT music.

;)

Anon:

You won't get an answer from Setof because it doesn't have a set of. I'd be surprised if it even had one.

The thing crawled out from its pond scum dwelling, where with any luck, it will soon return.

Settoff:

May I ask what your own religion/ethnicity is?

A Jew's a wolf in sheep's clothing and a Moslem is an ass in a lion's skin.
-------------------------
Well, I'm really sorry and browbeaten to admit that I'm regretting time spent of my life thinking that the Jews were really victims. They certainly suffered the Nazis' wrongdoings, but exploited that to their benefit. They cunningly managed to blackmail the world; and to maintain this, they had to look for a potential enemy, a naïve enemy, who could easily bite the hooked bait. The ARABS who, unfortunately and stupidly, opted for the "Communism" ideology.
Israel, a wolf in sheep's clothing, kept warning the westerners from the eminent danger disguised in the ARAB leaders, an ass in a lion's skin, and they swallowed it, sometimes voluntarily and/or through a polite blackmail of a certain historical background as ex-Nazism.

"piece "to the glory of god," yet I don't find his purely instrumental music to have any "religious" theme to it."
---

Mark, you really are a materialist!

Look a bit deeper (beyond mere structure or form) at the meaning of many (dare I say most) great works of music or literature and you will see the transcendent or an homage to God - and many times a direct repudiation of the materialism and utilitarianism that you so often argue for on these boards.

Isn't it interesting that you are moved by such beauty and don't consider the substance of that beauty or where it comes from...I would call this very "limiting."

speed123 sez:

"I wonder how much of that classical music was inspired by the transcendent and religious themes?"

Quite a bit of it, though all music is to some extent crafted as much as it is inspired. Bach wrote almost every piece "to the glory of god," yet I don't find his purely instrumental music to have any "religious" theme to it. Verdi and Brahms were atheists who wrote religious-themed music. What's your point?

"Mozart wasn't Catholic, was he? I suppose you limit yourself from listening to Mozart?"

Actually, I happen to own the entire Philips Complete Mozart Edition on 180CDs. I like his operas, symphonies and concerti. His religious works seem formulaic and cold to me. I appreciate Mozart more than I "like" him. From the classical-era composers, I prefer Haydn.

Handel wrote great sacred works, but I don't think his Water Musik was inspired by god. Do you?

I sure hope you "limit yourself" from other irrational, faith inspired arts such as literature (Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Chekhov, Dante, Cervantes) and the master artists (in painting, sculpture, architecture) of all eras...

I wonder how much of that classical music was inspired by the transcendent and religious themes?

Mozart wasn't Catholic, was he? I suppose you limit yourself from listening to Mozart? ;)

Speedy sez:

"Clearly, your bias limits your perspective."

I hear the same complaint when it comes to my taste in music, where I'm told that I'm "limiting" myself by listening almost exclusively to classical music - which encompasses a time frame from roughly 800CE to the present day, numerous musical eras, composers, forms and styles etc - by ignoring the high art of American popular music written in, oh, say, the last 3 months.

There are limits and then there are limits.

Not possible to post longer messages - many attempts.

I guess Mr. Mark hasn't read the French theories on post-modernism and deconstructionism...

As for scientists who thought the world was flat, there were plenty of them and the same goes for the idea that the sun revolved around the earth.

But I guess this would ruin your conception as science as an "all-seeing" and reasonable human enterprise (much of the time it is) and religion and transcendence as the opposite (although much of the time this is reasonable as well).

Clearly, your bias limits your perspective.

**Paradigm shifts are made in BOTH the fields of science and religion - this fact disproves neither of the two pursuits...**

PS - Catholics and the pope have no trouble accepting scientific discovery in conjunction with faith...

Baphomet writes:

"Mr Mark:

"Was the quantum universe real before your scientists were equipped to observe it?"

Yes. Amazing that we humans discovered it as god didn't seem to bother mentioning it. But then, god never heard of marsupials, either.

"Was the earth still round when they thought it was flat?"

Who is the "they" that thought the world was flat? Certainly not the scientists. Again, that would be a description of the earth given by god.

"How much faith do you have invested in your scientists?"

There's no faith involved whatsoever.

"Did you ever consider that Science might just be yet another flawed and incomplete attempt to understand the ultimate reality?"

The beauty of science is that it roots out its own flaws, abandons them and moves on, as opposed to religion which turns a blind eye to its flaws and rails against evidence exposing its lies.

BTW - who says that there's some "ultimate reality?"

Mr Mark:

Was the quantum universe real before your scientists were equipped to observe it? Was the earth still round when they thought it was flat? How much faith do you have invested in your scientists? Did you ever consider that Science might just be yet another flawed and incomplete attempt to understand the ultimate reality?

What is the "partial truth that we need to reveal, understand, and embrace" you see when you look at the moral views of the Nazis, Irwin? "Always dress your best?"

"And because of their power to murder and terrorize, the vast majority of Muslims who know better are afraid to criticize yet alone condemn them."

Is there any wonder why, when we as atheists see harm done in the name of some "spiritual truth," and fail to see those who claim to "know better" take action on their own, that books by Harris and Hitchins and Dennett and Dawkins are so popular and sell so well?

But what is also interesting to me is that despite this, we have Rabbi Kula voicing his distaste for those arrogant atheists who have the sense of "knowing it all," and how dare they exclude so much "truth" and "science" and "technology" within the religious tradition that enriches our lives in such meaningful ways, and that the term "truth" can be used so loosely, and in the same sentence as is "science" and "technology" as if to lend it more credence.

What a meaningless discussion this becomes...

Atheists agree on one thing: there's not emperical evidence to support a supernatural existance. In this case, don't hinder human liberties based on those supernatural beliefs. After this, it goes all over the place, but in general atheists are willing to learn.

Having tried to post innumerable times, I'm done with this blog until they straighten it out. It's FUBARED beyond all recognition.

The people who matter are the ones who shape opinion. They want a bogy man. We muslims are an easy target. They ignore that Muslims and Christians, Jews, Hindus and others have lived together for centuries, in our contries and yours the conflicts have been few and far between. The target of islamophobia is not Muslims we are the victims. The targets are secular people the Christians and Jews who live in the west. so their leaders can continue to violate their rights and deprive them of their due. Peace

In a column raging about "half-truths," the author unveils this absolute falsehood:

"The spiritual dimension is real and there is a science and technology of the spirit deeply embedded in every major religion, even if the technology is hidden behind creed, dogma, and wrong metaphysics, that provides meaning and purpose and that helps people develop psychologically, morally, and ethically."

The spiritual dimension is "real?" Look up the world "real" in a dictionary.

There "is a science and technology of the spirit?" What an inaccurate and cavalier display of contempt for the meaning of words, in this case, "science" and "technology."

If one needs to stoop to falsehoods to make one's case, perhaps the case itself is false.

TO PERSPECTIVE:

You wrote, "As the Buddhists remind us: "those that say don't know, and those that know don't say"., and Jesus said to "Proclaim the Good News".

I have met God and God is a Being of Love.

As far as the Buddhists saying that you wrote, well that does sound a little snobbish to keep such "Good News" to yourself, especially if God has let you know that you are to speak.

It is like sharing, you offer it to others and it is their choice what they do with it.

Take care, be ready, see you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom [the new heavens and the new earth].

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Thanks, David, for your comment about the ordinariness of Easter Vigil baptisms. I'll address the ordinariness of baptisms by the Pope.

Ordinarily, persons entering the Church at the Easter Vigil receive the sacraments of initiation from the hand of their local pastor. That's because the local bishop can't be everywhere at once. Those who live close to the cathedral, the bishop's "parish church" (as it were), will usually receive the sacraments from their bishop.

Exceptionally notable persons are very often baptized by the local bishop in keeping with the dignity of their station. Remember, the Church is not egalitarian-democratic but hierarchical. Civil society, for that matter, only puts on a sham of egalitarianism. The simple fact is that the governor has a more important role in society than I do. If he were to seek entrance into the Church, it would be fitting for a roughly comparable figure in the Church to admit him.

Mr. Allam is on the editorial staff of Corriere della Serra, a Rome-based paper. Presumably, Mr. Allam lives in or near Rome. Mr. Allam is also very famous and to some degree powerful because of his job. That alone would be enough to get him baptised by the Bishop of Rome, that is, the Pope.

Was the Vatican aware of how the baptism would be perceived? Certainly. Was it concerned enough to depart from customary protocols? Apparently not. But there is a difference between willing an effect and tolerating it.

How about:

Everybody can have all the invisible friends they want - but their invisible friends rules only applies to themselves?

At least Jews and Buddhists are in agreement on one thing - God or Ultimate Reality cannot be spoken of, once discovered.

There is no name for It - as That is beyond all descriptions, definitions, categories, or human concepts.

The problem with Catholics, Prostestants, and Muslims (Sufis excepted) is that they think they know with certainty what That is - and they are reminding us almost constantly of their exclusive knowledge of the Supreme Reality.

As the Buddhists remind us: "those that say don't know, and those that know don't say".

This deep truth leaves the individual as the final and exclusive arbiter of Thusness........

Gary D.--
I'm laughing that you and I cross-posted about the same time! I'm glad you've read some of the Baha'i writings. At least enough to recognize a Baha'i principle. Best regards.

I would argue that genuine spiritual truth is NOT always the most inclusive truth.

Many religions preach many of the same life principles, which really we can call age old wisdom - The Best Way to Live. To this extent I agree with the author, to call this 'spiritual truth' though I think misses the mark.

True spiritual truth tackles the weightiest of questions as to who is this God.

Our unjustified warring against each other is really warring against the Creator of the people.

Has anyone done enough? Will we ever do enough? Absolutley not. And of what account will we give to God?

It will not be enough until there is peace. "Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Rom. 5:1)"

So search, become lowly, consider life worth nothing that we may attain to a right perspective of our God and make peace with God.

"The spiritual dimension is real and there is a science and technology of the spirit deeply embedded in every major religion..."

Ha! The person you should stop kidding is yourself. The only thing embedded in our major religions are means of control and the collection of money.

"What we need is a genuine spiritual truth which is always the most inclusive truth. An authentic spiritual truth is one that understands that from an infinite, absolute, cosmic, or God perspective every voice has a partial truth."

Thank you, Rabbi Kula, thank you, thank you!
The most inclusive truth does exist and is proclaimed in many places in the sacred writings of the Baha'i Faith. Here is one of them:
"If this warfare and strife be for the sake of religion, it is evident that it violates the spirit and basis of all religion. All the divine Manifestations(major prophets) have proclaimed the oneness of God and the unity of mankind. They have taught that men should love and mutually help each other in order that they might progress. Now if this conception of religion be true, its essential principle is the oneness of humanity. The fundamental truth of the Manifestations is peace. This underlies all religion, all justice. The divine purpose is that men should live in unity, concord and agreement and should love one another. Consider the virtues of the human world and realize that the oneness of humanity is the primary foundation of them all. Read the Gospel and the other Holy Books. You will find their fundamentals are one and the same. Therefore, unity is the essential truth of religion and, when so understood, embraces all the virtues of the human world."

'Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 32

That being said I liked the post as a whole!

Actually, you should look in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and find the real Catholic teaching on original sin. Nuff said.

I disagree with the idea that baptizing this man on Easter Sunday was inflammatory. Most to all converts are baptized or confirmed on Easter Sunday. There are some cases where this is not the case, but they are the exception to the rule. What better time to baptize? Perhaps you are confused with the rite of confirmation for already-baptized Catholics, which happens throughout the liturgical year as the Bishop's schedule permits? This is a non-issue. As for your other points, I don't think that this man should have been brought in the back door of the Church just because he is a public persona. Honestly.

I thought you were Jewish but you sound almost like a Ba'hai. Sorry every religion - once one gets beyond the statement that there is a God does not have even a thin sliver of the truth unless of course one wishes to accept the notion of a most schizophrenic God.

That 7% you speak of is desparately trying to stave off the future and simultaneously retreat to a past that truly never was. They are atavists of the worst sort and must needs be fought with every last ounce of strength at our disposal and every means to hand.

If, Mr. Kula, what you say was the Pope's actual meaning, then one can do little but applaud it. And hope a good many of his followers take heed. For to my mind the average Catholic is as lost as the average Muslim and for much the same reason as 60 odd percent of those setting in church pews every Sunday are lost. They worship the God they think ought to be rather than the God that is.

In truth everyone worships something and the meaner that something is the more detestable is that faith.

Actually there was no need for Magdi Allam's Baptism since there is and was no original sin so the point is mute just like the Pope's Baptismal words were.

An update on current Catholic theology as taught in many Catholic university graduate classes:

"The story of Adam and Eve is only symbolic.
This story was composed in the 900s BCE and functions as an etiology (explanatory myth) . In the 900s Israel was self ruling, under King David
and Solomon. The people were no longer at war and the question" Why are we not happy?" may have been asked. The short answer is sin. (Look at 1 Kings 11 for some clues into why the story depicts Eve sinning first and then tempting Adam [Solomon]).

Original Sin therefore is only symbolic of the sins of our origins -- in our
families and in the broader society, both of which affect each person
profoundly. The "sins of our origins" approach helps to account for certain
patterns of sin in particular families and societies.

Baptism therefore does not erase original sin since the sin does not exist. The old "laundry of the soul," approach to Baptism is no longer
accepted.

As soon as Mr. Allam shook off the brainwashing of Islam and accepted the teaching of the Catholic Church, he became a Catholic.

However, as has been noted many times, the Catholic Church is almost as flawed as Islam and Mr. Allam is simply trading one hallucination and myth based religion for another."