Theocracy: Always a Problem, Never a Solution

On the question does god exist, in the real world, is it not wise to ask, where is the EVIDENCE? Seems to me the religionists, true believers, and minds of faith must take the “leap of faith” (from reality) to make their case for god(s).
On the part religions play in world violence, I find religions, all religions, some more than others; take the low road in human morality. Occasionally we see anecdotal indications. Arguably, George W Bush’s administration was the closest to a Christian administration (one hundred and fifty appointees from Regent University alone) this nation has ever known. It has also been recognized as probably the most corrupt. It is said that power corrupts. I suggest that religions, all religions also corrupt.
Tom Broome

Mother Theresa probably was “an inspiration to Millions,” especially the credulous, but I found her doubts about the existence of a god more convincing. After so many decades of study, contemplation and agony in pursuit of faith and she still had doubts about the existence of god? I take that to mean at some level of awareness, not very far from the surface, she was ready to admit, there are not gods or god. Also, her gift of hundreds of thousands of dollars to her Order instead of the starving in Calcutta is confirmation. Tom Broome

The current political situation in Afghanistan is heartbreaking. With Charlie Wilson's latest comment that he would favor a withdrawal of our military presence and Dr. Silverman's suggestion that we contribute to non-government organizations that promote human rights, I am beginning to form my opinion that we must withdraw our valuable troops and resources and find another way.

Pr Chris,

Some people arrive at the conclusion that there is no God, and then only look for the ‘facts’ that support that belief – and then they pat themselves on the back for their rational objectivity. You will never arrive at the truth, scientific, spiritual or otherwise, using this mindset.

Katavo has gone a step beyond that in that he uses his disdain for religion to categorize and stereotype people of faith according to his prejudices. If he wants to believe there is no God, fine. But the arguments he tries to present sound every bit as angry as the justifications issued by Al Quida.

My arguments are not really directed at Katavo (I do not expect to change his mind) but for those who might confuse all forms of atheism with rationalism, and those who might confuse all forms of religion with extremism.

On the Duvalier-loving Mother Theresa, see Christopher Hitchens, "Mommie Dearest." (Not a fan of Hitchens, but everything he references can be confirmed--hellish)

On St. John Crysostom, see anything on the Hitler era. The saint was a favorite for nazi propagandists who drew upon his "work" frequently.

There are of course no absolutes without a god. So a statement as blank is always a problem goes too far (though perhaps not too too far).

The Buddha denied the relvance of gods. The jains do not believe in a supreme being. Yet they have a "religion."

Hinduism does not quibble about this problem. Dharma (often translated as religion) is moral action. Satva is truth. Brahman is that being that is beyond being and not being. You are certainly allowed to deny the existence of Durga, Rama, Krishna, even Truth. Though the last is probably a silly thing to state as non-existent. The belonging to the Hindu group is not established on the named god. (There is argument within the Hindu community of who is or who is not Hindu but the fundamental beliefs that every one of us has an atman that is connected intimately with the paratman, that we undergo karmic law, that we each seek to realize fully the relationship of atman-paratman, etc. is applied to "non-Hindus" as well).

You need to be a mono-ideologist to have an exclusion clause in your religion (what exactly is outside of God anyway?)

hariaum

Ruby:

Katavo says:

Katavo,
You still are guided by false ideas. You say, “If you are a believer in any gods, you are not allowed to question those gods. To do so means the end of faith.” FALSE.

I think you are arguing past each other. What Katavo, I think, is arguing, is not whether or not one questions various and sundry doctrines, or even switches religion from one to another, but whether or not there is ANY divinity to worship.

Questioning doctrine is one thing, but a Christian who questions Jesus existence ends up not being a Christian. A Jew who denies the covenant G-D of the Bible is no longer a religious Jew (they may consider themselves a part of a people, just as I am part Swedish and part German...), but they are no longer faithful Jews. Similarily, in every religion, questioning doctrines gets a person to different denominations within that religion, but questioning and denying the existence of the divine figure who is the basis for that religion ceases to be a member of that religion.

Mother Teresa and St. John of the Cross both had periods where they felt abandoned by God, but neither, as far as I have read absolutely rejected the possibility or existence of the God of Jesus...they still had the possibility of faith, even if they had periods where it was felt to be in doubt.

At least, I hope I've summarized....

Pr Chris

Btw., any hope of ending Christian hegemony stateside?

As I posted below, had President and Saint Jimmy Carter not begun "covert operations" in Afghanistan in 1978, massed troops at the Russian border, had we not supported, armed and trained the Taliban, the secularization begun in 1978 might have continued.

But we visited thirty years of misery on that country, have killed nearly one million. What do we "owe" Afghanistan? Hard to say....

A show of hands?

Anyone think the Dalai Lama's rule of Tibet was a good theocracy?

Continued:

The Goal of this "International Religious Police" [IRP] and together, as compliment, with this "International Religio Court Of Justice" [IRC-J] is to created based on the Motto,

Leave the RELIGION [issues] to the RELIGIONISTS (Rabbi's, Immams, Priests, Popes etc..) which is to

"Seperate" the Secular Business [issues] , such as the motto, "Leave the Politics to the Politicians" .

So the international Criminal [CHURCH] Religio Court" can do it's business Justly & safely; especially righteously!

iMportant: 2-Two things:

1) The NEW-U.nited N.ations should have trained "Religio SECRET-AGENTS" or "Speciaized deputized religio Informers" who will help enforce the [good] & the Morality of such faith/belief/as religion, planted in Any, every & all Places of Organized Worship (private or in public) or suspicious !

2) Since all major-religions of today have an International-presence, then All, every & any recognised stationary Church/Mosque/Temple/Synogogue etc.. or mobile church must register their Church/Mosque/Sinogogue.... regodless of country of origin with the newly established international religious court , in order to have "Potential Immunity". but those not registered will feel the full brunt of the [SECULAR] Rule of [MORAL-ITY] Laws, not biblical books!

soo, religious mongers/inciters hiding behind religio clothing or in sheeps skins will not be immune to OUR "G-D', not their lords, TRUE (opposite MYTH) Justice!

Note: "LiFE is LOVE" SEX is not Love" and "Religion is iNNATE" & "HEAVENS is in/on SPACE-SHIP EARTH"!

think we owed Afghanistan the opportunity and help to change its government and banish the Taliban.
----------------
What the US "owed" Afganistan, owes Afghanistan, and will owe Afghanistan, it can never repay.

The most recent US destablization of Afghanistan had its roots in the 1978 coup/election during which a marxist regime took power. This resulted in a rooting out of corruption, widespread attempts amazingly successful at economic reform, and a gradual liberalization of the restrictions that had been placed on women. As the new government gave evidence of stability, the USSR began sending in aide.

President and Saint Jimmy Carter began covert operations in Afghanistan in early in late 1978, sending troops to the border, provoking the Russians endlessly, supporting the Taliban.

Support for the Taliban, the training of Osama Bin Laden, security for warlords was all provided by the US government. The result? Starvation, misery, brutality, and since 2001, murders nearing the 1,000,000 mark. Judaism has a thing about justice. Though an atheist, I do to.

What do we "owe" Afghanistan?

rubytues63 you are consistent at least. You are looking for loopholes in the sentence construction to help you avoid the fundamental point being made.

Questioning the Existence of the Gods. Ok?

And using your holy noise to make your point, well, that really helps me make mine. I don't suppose you can see that though, blinded by blind faith as you are.

Katavo,

You still are guided by false ideas. You say, “If you are a believer in any gods, you are not allowed to question those gods. To do so means the end of faith.” FALSE.

Exodus 3:10-11
God: “So now, go. I am sending you to Pharaoh to bring my people the Israelites out of Egypt.”
Moses: “Who am I, that I should go to Pharaoh and bring the Israelites out of Egypt?”

Exodus 4:12-13
God: “Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say.”
Moses: “O Lord, please send someone else to do it.”

Mark 14:36
Jesus: “Father, everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me.”

John 13:6-8
Peter: “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?”
Jesus: “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.”
Peter: “No, you shall never wash my feet.”

"In "IT" WE TRUST!"

VOTE: In the U.N. Assembly for thr creation of a "International Religious Police" [I.R.P.] having a "International Religious Court/Division Of Justic" there at Based in N.Y.C,s U.N. Court or elswhere.

Example: If a Preacher like America's JOHN HAGEE starts talking about "NUKE IRAN"; then a [International] U.N. Warrant shall be issued forth with and be dealt with According to OUR-G-D (not his/her gods)!?? He can be ordered to recant & Appologize to those offended effected or be incarsarated for 'x' years; or Fined 10,000,000 Dollars per Blurtings.. Another

Example: If a priest commits an act against Humanity {e.e., PEdophilia/sodomy] under his/her Color of Preaching/Surmans Job etc.. Then that/Those PERP's will be hauld-in before the International Cummunity for a spankin, so to seaketh or simply Face the Trumpit. And then dealt with accordingly.

Note: The International designated (elected) "REligious JUSTICES" of the newly created "International Religious Court" Tribunal via the "International Police's" behalf; will consist of 2 IMMAMS (Islamic) judges + 1 alternate, 2 RABBIS (JU) judges + 1 alterante, 2 PRIESTS (Christian) judges + 1 alternate, 2 SWAMI's (HINDU) judges + 1 alternate, 2 MONKS (Hindu) judges +1 alternate. And 2 (SECUALR) Judges + 1 alternate; and the "Swing-Vote" will fall on the U.N. General Secretatiat! Or His/her Alternate (but not Both).

So the "IRC" will have 12 Relogio Judges (in any & All CASE(s)) & 6 Alternates = 18 and 1 swing-vote from the U.N.s Leadership/ranks at the time of decision. Note: There is NO APPEALS re-godless! Only G-D can help them in their Prayers (talking) & Meditations (listening) to "IT"!

PS: Then Can WE EKLAH-ti-ON's , Lovers of the ":Religion Of Everything" have our NOBLE PEACE PRIZE", and cake later??

"“One is not allowed to question the existence of angels.” FALSE. Most people who question the existence of angels use it as a starting point for questioning the existence of God. An angel is nothing more than a messenger from God. Believing God might have a messenger is not a stretch if you believe in the God who sent them."

This makes no sense at all. You just confirmed exactly what I said. Questioning the existence of angels leads to questioning the gods. Such questions destroy faith. That's what I said. That's why religions don't allow you to question the fundamental BS, they give you the illusion of free will by allowing you to question the smell of it only.

I share Silverman's pessimism about any possible solution to the turmoil in Afghanistan as long as the government is controlled by religionists. The same is true of any and all countries, especially the middle East, where religion dominates and violates basic human rights.

Mother Theresa still did what the pope told her to do, Fact.

And who cares about angels, it's just an example. So you question these angels, so what? Others do not. You're trying to put words in my mouth so you can have an argument with them. That is truly pathetic and I'm not going to play.

But what does this have to do with anything I've said? I'm talking about a theocracy here, not your local church.

If you're a believer in any gods, you are not allowed to question those gods. To do so means the end of faith. All the various holy books says this, even yours. They all say the believer must have total faith, and can't worship or believe in any of the other gods people believe in. This is very specific in your holy book, it's even one of your commandments.

Theocrats take this unquestioning faith in the gods and claim it applies to them as well. Fact. Now follow me here, it's not difficult if you're not trying to inject strawmen into it so you can argue with them - the unquestioning faith in the gods attached to the political leadership in this manner gives the leaders unquestioned power over the people in that theocracy.

Now the unquestioned power structure exists. And who tends to be attracted to power? Maybe good people who mean well, but eventually bad people (despots) who know how to handle power better inevitably end up taking over the reins of control of this power structure. And they don't owe anything to anybody but themselves.

And all the suckers who believe in them never ask one question, for fear the religious police will torture them and their family and send them all to hell.

The only defense against this kind of unquestioned power structure is to refuse to allow it to start in the first place.

You know, the way our founding fathers did it.

I repeat: All theocracies are despotic.

Katavo,

I have several ‘faults’ I would like to point out in your arguments:

“Religion requires unquestioning, abject faith.” FALSE. Mother Theresa had doubts about her faith and her role in God’s Universe. Thankfully, she did not give in to them and her faith became an inspiration to millions.

“One is not allowed to question the existence of angels.” FALSE. Most people who question the existence of angels use it as a starting point for questioning the existence of God. An angel is nothing more than a messenger from God. Believing God might have a messenger is not a stretch if you believe in the God who sent them.

“How are people to question or resist the political leaders when they are placed there by the gods…” EASY. More and more Americans switch denominations. The message of God is still relevant for them, but the political shenanigans performed by various ‘leaders’ is one reason why faithful Christians might seek a better flock or a better shepherd.

“Absolute power is provided by absolute faith.” Like the faith Americans have in money? Like the power Americans have in politicians? Like the faith Americans have in sex?

“The benevolent despot who sees himself as a shepherd of the people still demands from others the submissiveness of sheep.” Sounds like the IRS. Are you still talking about religion here?

Religion requires unquestioning, abject faith. One may be able to argue the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin, but one is not allowed to question the existence of angels. Or of any of the gods, or of any of the written and unwritten doctrine claimed to have been written by those gods.

A theocracy is a government based on religion. How are the people to question or resist the political leaders when they are placed there by the gods, just as surely as the holy books were written by them?

Absolute power is provided by absolute faith.

All theocracies become despotic, even if they didn't start out that way. "Absolute power corrupts even when exercised for humane purposes. The benevolent despot who sees himself as a shepherd of the people still demands from others the submissiveness of sheep. The taint inherent in absolute power is not its inhumanity but its anti-humanity." (Eric Hoffer).

What about making Israel a secular democracy?

Tommelchiorre, I agree with you on the Raid on Entiebbe, except there was an Israeli woman in an Ugandan hospital (she was hospitalized for choking) and left behind, and murdered by the humilated Ugandans.

Bush should have kept his mouth shut before going to war.... He was not Golda Meir....

The struggle in Afghanistan is not about religion. It is about power. For 10 years, Afghanistan was ruled by a communist (i.e. secular) government and the country was more violent then than it is now.

When communism fell in Afghanistan, Muslim fought Muslim in a bloody civil war. Armies and territories largely fell along tribal, geographic or ethnic lines. They were not based upon religious differences.

Using a familiar Hamas tactic and Iranian money, the Taliban gained support in the South because of the charity work they did and because they appeared to be devout and selfless Muslims. Devout Muslims are no worse than any other kind of Muslim until they demand everyone else worship according to their faith and rules. Let us make this distinction clear – the Taliban may have been devout, but as a group they were not selfless. By the time the general population made this distinction, it was too late. The Taliban was in complete control of the South.

Practically everyone living in Afghanistan except the Taliban, will tell you that life there is better than it was before. Yes, people are frustrated by corruption, poverty and mismanagement. Yes they are frustrated that the Taliban seemed to take better care of the most extremely poor and sick than the current government does.

What would happen if America focused on charity and economic issues in Afghanistan at least as much as it focuses on soldiers? Do you think we would win them over by using selflessness and righteousness as our guide – both qualities praised in the Quran and Bible? Why not? Our secular approach does not appear to be giving us the results we want.

Opppsa Daisy. The Last Postation was for EVANGELICAL Cold War NUKE LOVER "T.W. Stevens" & Co.

Whats the Difference between a Lame-DUCK, a Democrat-DONKEY & a Republican-ELEPHANT?

Nothing really! They're All the same "Shiiat" & there's nuttin "Sunni" about them!

Revelation (opposite secret, Hidden-MANNA, hiddenKarma, hiddenUmma..):

The "SUNNi-A-BOMB" & the "SHiiA-B-BOMB" must never be allowed to become a Reality. Else ARMAGEDDON will become Inevitable!

Note: i [WE] art sure that somewhere before Heavens Gate; THAT the Jealous-god worshiping EVANJEALOUSICALs & Co.,, like Armageddon Lover's John HAGEE & wannabe Prez Mike HUCKABEE's & their +50,000,000 Man, Eucharist swallowing, Army's;.

Note again Evangelical Nationals: That METHODIST Neo-Con BUSH's & via Neo-Con Methodist Clinton's ; hath All became NEO-NAPOLIAN's! Meaning the EVANGELICAL Baptists & CO., can't Hijack nor Steal nor get Credit for what is Prophetically Unfolding or about to happen, for the Besta not worsea of our holyi Cosmic times !

Example: Ex-Prez Lame-Duck Mr. BUSH, unlike NYC Mayor Bloomburg; Himself, or FREUDiantly slippeth's & sayth, "that Enriched Uranium should be Traded via some kind of International "URANiUM-BANK" [IUB] or similar implied. Sooo,

Evangelicals; YE Rabbi-Yashua-YAWH,JEHOVA loving folks have missed, not Only the Holyi Cosmic S.S. Earth as being the Heavenly-Boat, but the SECULARs-Band-Wagon as Well!

Pleazzza. Stop Pretending that ye art ORIGINAl! Oye-Vayz-MiR!

Eeee Haaa, HALLALUYA! Praise the HOLYi-NO-MAN-WOMB! Therefore Sing, "Thank You "IT"! [our G-D is not a "HE" nor a "SHE"]! Soo,

Goodbye Judeo-abe-JU's! Goodbye Judeo-abe-CHRiSTO's! Goodbye Goodbye Judeo-abe-ISLAMICS! Goodbye JUDEO-abe-MORMONS; and Goodbye JUDEO-vedic-HINDU's! Goodbye JUDEO-vedic-BUDHHISTA's! GoodBye JUDEO-vedic-CONFUCIUSian's et al!

HELLO; E-K-L-A-H! Praise "IT" (by manymanymany Names; no longer by 99 names or 1,000 names or 3-Tri-names etc..!

PS: Slamin-Dunkin-basketball OBAMA should be allowed not only 100 days to adjust, but a whole Year & should be President for an Extra TERM like Billionare Bloomburg of Nyc got!

Note: RELIGIOUSLY SPEAKING/THINKING

To interpret, the messages of Man-made self serving godly polution of their (not OUR) Pre-Apocalyptic copy-cat Religion systems, and NOW as if being Graffiti to Us [SECULARIST; EKLAH-ti-ON's; not OFF's; aka NEO-NAPOLIANS] now written on OUR (not Their) un-Jealous, un-Fearing Holi Cosmic celestial Wall, THAT

Behold! There's a MESSAGEs to behold for from such Grafiti's for All The World to See clearly as a PROPHECY Who's time via holy TiME is already Commeth AND

is acsually a Religious-Polution or byeproduct that can only be cleansed/removed via EVOLUTION in the Minds-of-them-PreApocalyptic minded Men/Womb Mentalyity; not Chemically removed as the solvent!

WHEREFORE: WE APOCALYPTARIAN's, aka "Automatic Born Citizens/Denizens" of S.pace-S.hip Earth(s), are going FROM: thinking Locally & then acting Globally, TO: Think GLOBALY & then acting LOCALY!

Hence the difference between them Inferior "PRE-APOCALYPTIC"aryan"s (HUMANs) and US APOCALYPTARi-ON's (not OFFs) as Superior HUe{MATES.

Pleazzza! This is not Racist Thinking. This is not Reigious Profiling, this is not about man-madely competing for a name god SYSTEMs, LaLaLa, But Rather todays Wars is About

HEALING OF THe NATIONS, WORLD PEACE & HAPPYNESS to come which automatically equates to LONG LIFE & PROSPERITY for all, every & Any INTELLIGENT Person (w/Above a certain level of I.Q.'s; via FRONTAl-LOBES which makes Us HUe{MATE, not HUMAN anymore).

The RELIGIONIST of Today's JINN fearing & flat-Earth thinkers will be forced to Surrender & awaken to Us SECULARists their Saviors!

Note: OUR (not their) SECULAR"MAHDi", aka Secular-Messiah, aka Secular-MATREYA & Secular-Deliveror & by many many many Names is Already Borneth in Sweet sweet U.S. of A!

Behold "IT"s writings on Our Holy Cosmic WALL! Remember: OUR "UNiVERSE is our genuine Holyi "CONSTiTUTION" & "IT"s [our G-D is Never a HE nor a SHE] Sacred "LAWS OF "IT"s NATURE" is OUR "CLAUSES" in order to MAGNIFY, Uphold & Make HONORABLE; HALLALUYA! O' blesseth HOLYI-NO-MAN/WOMB! Praise "IT" in and outside of Us All!

I certainly agree with Professor Silverman that there is no such thing as a good theocracy. As to Afghanistan, I do feel that we need to create more of a UN presence in the country with humanitarian aid and eliminate our military presence.

The most sense I have heard yet on this thorny problem. Americans are dying there; for what?

H-i-s-t-o-r-y is OUR JURY!

Fact: Islamic Pakistan; a/k/a ex-Idol Worshipers suddenly turned JUDEO-abe-Islamic instead of JUDEO-vedic-HINDU is in-fact a Squater-Nation (unlike Desert Dwelling Israelites/SABRA Nationals history) are unjustly living on STOLEN-LAND from Peacefull Hindi-INDIA +/- 1947. Note now they;ve Islamically encroached/Creeped on STEALING al Cashmere for their AL TAQIYAH'ists [Wahhabi EWlders as Islamic Zionist Vintriloquists international).

Note: Islamic Pakistan (Squauters on Stolen Land) are the same-People as the Islamic AFGHANISTANians of today, also ex-Idol Worshippers suddenly turned "Al-lah Aliens."

Note again: Fact: The Great PAGAN Greek , Honorable "ALEXANDER THE GREAT" [pbuh] a/k/a thee "SON of MAN" [not OSIRIS/SETHites, not Romolus JESUSites et al] around BC-300 [Before Judeo-abe-al Islam] was the only western Tribal/Nation Leadership to Conquor & Control & try-to-tame the ex-Idol Pagan worshippers Afghaniites of Pre-Electric & pre-Atomic Epochs/Era, turned copy-cat "JUDEO-abe-ISLAMIC worshipers around 691 to 1,000 CE/AD!

Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great

Interestingly; NAPOLIAN the Great; Was right to "Turn Europe Upside Down on It's [MONARCHIC/THEOGIAN] Head". Hence Why & how THE-WEST, as WE [i] Knoweth it TODAY is Here, as is! Yet, Today, the AMERICAn & Friendly's Anti-Finatical-Religio-WARS in Afghanistan, Iraq et al; is about UN-finished NAPOLIAN WARS; so to spaeketh TRUTH (opposite MYTH)!

In other Words; George W. Bush & Co., and now Borak H. Obama & Co; are the NREW or NEO-NAPOLIAN's of the 22nd Cenrury! And so, the Post Electric, post Atomic HUMANITY's GOAL/OBJECTIVE/PURPOSE, via U.nited N.ations & RULE OF LAW; not Halakah rule, not Sharia rule, not Caste slavery, not Aparthidic racist, not Dhimitizic lower classes.. is to Turn all THEOCRATS on their Islamic Heads too!

Please see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napolean

PS: How To Kill the Talibani & Co. A.S.A.P.? Well, Drop NAPALM on every Poppy Field, before & mid Harvest Seasons in All Pakistan, Afghanistan & Cashmere; maybe Nepal too; and within 2-Two Years the Talibani's will crawl out of their CAVES and beg US 'NEONAPOLIANS" to Stop! Guarantee or Ye Tax-Payer's Money Back.

Eeee Haaaa! Let's Do-IT!

Another blogger, Brad Hirschfield, writes that "Religious Problems Demand Religious Solutions." He says, "Sadly, those who appreciate how toxic a role religion plays in global conflicts are often the most resistant to embracing the constructive capacity of those very same traditions in addressing the conflicts."

Maybe that's because those of us who see religion's toxicity in global conflicts are never shown anything constructive to embrace. I agree with Herb Silverman that when religion uses the power of the state to advance its aims, the result is rarely positive: "There has never been a theocracy that resulted in a decent standard of living for its citizens, or where minorities were treated with both tolerance and respect."

The secular community may fight theocracy with all its might, but only when religious believers demand separation will progress be made. Is this even possible in a country where the dominant religious force refuses to recognize the most basic human rights?

While our presence in Afghanistan has been for 8 years, our forces were diverted considerably to fight the "Iraq War" that we created. So, realistically, the forces in Afghanistan have been minimum for much of these 8 years, a fighting force of a few thousand and much smaller than what we keep in any small country around the world for peaceful reasons.

Having said that, increasing our military presence in Afghanistan is truly a repeat of Iraq, only now we're on the other side of Iran geographically. (And people wonder why they want nuclear capabilities?) In truth, we face another 8 years or more in Afghanistan and nothing will come of it except death.

The Israelis did it right when their airliner was hijacked to Uganda, and a week later stormed into the airport with an attack that caught the Ugandans and the highjackers completely off guard. All the passengers and crew were rescued. Only one military person died. The U.S., on the other hand, issued threats for a month that we would attack before we finally went into Afghanistan to get bin Laden, who, by that time, had left. We had the intelligence as to where he was in Afghanistan under the Taliban, and should have done the same as Israel did with Uganda. Let us leave the region, and when the Taliban emerge once again let the regional powers handle them.