No One is Guaranteed a Free Pass into Heaven

when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity, whem many people suffer from a delusion, this is called religion...Robert M Pirsig why in the hell is faith being fancied over reason so much more often? and havent you wondered why we must die to enter heaven and meet god? hhmmm what good is ssomthing if you cant have it until you die? wait...science has taken human beings into heaven but this is not good enough, religion has been used to explain the unexplainable, rainbows, the sun, rain, famine drought ect. of course, these things were observed and found to be explainable and natural. how can people say their faith is the way, while others say "no mine is the way" and the only defense for either belief is a freaken book and ancient fairy tails if there is only one true religion, think of how many people must be wrong.

Hi LAJEEPDUDE,

For your first para, GOD has created all the things and He created poverty. But have you ever realized that what is this creations all about. Creating povertiy and richness at the same time has some meaning. Actually we are all being tested in this world. One is by giving money and one by giving hunger and poverty and in the end we will be rewarded according to our deeds.

Just look around and try to observe the World and try to realize the purpose of making all the things around. Moon, Sun, Stars all in a cyclic routine. Try to understand the purpose of all these things the purpose of your life.

And for you second para, our Islam doesnt say anything like what you have stated. Islam is the relegion that talks about love and infact we all have to answer for all what we do with the persons around us. And if its about convincing non believers than Islam says to convince them in a better and suitable way.

To Syed K. Mirza (or whomsoever behind the alias)

Your first sentence... please define what exactly u mean by 'Muslims' when you say they are blind followers of islam. do you ...

mean the 300 million of them who spoke and understood arabic then its like saying an englishman doesnt understand english
which i am sure u didnt meant.

If you referred to the rest of 1.3 billion approx (i will take your own data for now) that they dont understand arabic and follow islam blindly then let me ask u - what is islam? what makes a man a muslim? is it only salaat.

I hope u will reply to that if you are a muslim and yet i somewhat feel negative about that so will explain it here...

The basic five pillars of islam. 1) Iman (Belief) 2) Salaat (Namaz - prayer) 3) Zakaat (Charity) 4) Roza (Fasting) 5) Haj

So a man may pray,fast and give zakaat but if doesnt believe in the oneness of his Lord and His prophet, then its all useless, atleast in the hereafter. The basic concept is belief. To testify that 'There is no God but Allah and Muhammed is is messenger' that alone makes him a muslim.

There are hadith to the effect that a muslim on the day of judgement shall be ashmed at the 99 volumes of sin put in his account and will be dismayed at his performance, until his single recital of the above testimony will neutralize them all.

Another thing... what do you mean by 'Allah of the seventh century'???? I dont understand if u wre a muslim then how could utter such a blasphemy. Allah is the one who knows the shorter and the longer place of rest of every moving creature (Surah Hud A-6) and he also knows when, where and how you will die and what all you will be doing till then and how you will be dealt with in the hereafter. Quran and Hadith contain predictions made by one assured of them not guesswork.

And another point i will make here is that Quran ayats are words from ALLAH (SWT) himself revealed to Muhammed (pbuh) by means of Archangel Jibreel. So there isnt any confusion of Son (Jesus), Holy Ghost(Jibreel) and Father(God) like christianity here which makes a divinity out of all the three concerned. And if Quran is a direct revealation from Allah then a muslim has all right to consider it as divinewords and utter them in his prayer. The prophet pbuh himself recited the entire Quran in the ramadan tarawih so where does the question arise that one pray only meaningful and concerned ayats in his prayer.

It was Allah (swt) who created the situations in the first place for the messenger who asking for response from his Lord recieved the ayats as answers via Jibreel. refer to a Quran tafsir to understand properly where and when was an ayat or sura revealed. You could very well refer to the case of the ayat u mentioned : 4:43. Lest you dont find a tafsir from an islamic library do tell me and i shall type and paste the same here for all to see.

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"As I have stated earlier, only a small number of the Muslims speak and understand Arabic and those of them, who do not understand it at all, they rely on their local Mullahs to make them abreast with the bare-minimum requirements of their faith"
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Man... which census data is this>?? is it your own conclusion or what??? Prove it.... atleast make a sample survey of a tiny indonesian town or indian town for that matter before making such basless statements. This is not a newspaper that u type such assumptions free of care.

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"Again, most of the Mullahs and even the Memorizers of the Quran do not understand its content in its entirety, as they restrict themselves to understanding only those stipulations of it on which, they frequently face questions from their illiterate people."
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the same comments as above... thats really pathetic and hopeless. Its like me saying india is a really poor country and indians are really poor and you find people living and urinating on the streets bathing in ganges daily and all dark black in skin colour. Why am i saying such a thing? because i watch natgeo and flickr pics that capture such interesting content. Look here friend... better get ground realities right. Dont conjure from tiny baseless skewed sample surveys or reports. U wud better visit the UAE,Dubai, Saudi Arabia and other middle eastern countries and u will find life more cherishable than that of states of europe.

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"Yet, all the non-Arabic speaking Muslims say their prayers in Allah’s language, which is Arabic, telling Him - all the prayers are addressed to Him -, for instance:

“The mutual rivalry for piling up (the good things of this world) diverts you (from the more serious things. Until ye visit the graves, but nay, ye soon shall know (the reality). Again, ye soon shall know! Nay, were ye to know with certainty of mind (ye would beware!) Ye shall certainly see Hell-fire! Again, ye shall see it with certainty of sight! Then, shall ye be questioned that Day about the joy (ye indulged in)![7]"
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Whats wrong??? I dont understand what wrong is a muslim doing while praying these words of the Holy Quran. His Lord revealed those words as if he said it. The muslim while reading these words only realizes that his Lord has mentioned this ayat about someone who took more interest in making money than in worrying about his hereafter. Moreover the muslim realizes how strictly his Lord has warned about something called Hell-fire and that too twice! In the last statement he cross checks himself if there was such a joy he induldged in leaving behind his religion that he might be questioned about. so simple...

and here is your sentence that assured me that this guy just hasnt got his basics of the Quran clear....

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"Because Allah indulges in good things of the world, Muslims threaten Him with the Hell-fire of the hereafter."

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You hopeless person.. have you thought of us muslims to be so stupid so as to talk back to our only Lord - He who created us and our forefathers in the first place, created the heavens (universe) and the earth, He who originated the creation and then will repeat it. For us we fear the chastisement of a Great day and a punishment in hell-fire to even dare think of such a thing. And you accuse us muslims of threatening our Lord!!! What have you taken us as? We are a pure monotheist religion like Judaism. It is a pity that only two of such religions are there in the world. Did u assume us as hinduism which considers
even popular cricketers or movie stars as gods? wonder how they explain to themselves the fact of universe formation and their being created by those they proclaim as gods.

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“ Have We not expanded thee thy breast? – And removed from thee thy burden. The which did fall thy back? – And raised high the esteem (in which) thou (art held)? So, verily, with every difficulty, there is relief: verily, with every difficulty there is relief. Therefore, when thou art free (from thine immediate task) still labor hard. And to thy Lord turn (all) thy attention.”[8]?

Muslims tell the above things to Allah in their prayers to Him, without knowing what is stated in the Suras they recite during their prayers. This is a gross violation of Allah’s commandment, and, as such those Muslims who commit it, are the fuel of the Fire of Hell. "
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You seriously need to improve your understanding of the muslim prayer!!! We are supposed to recite the opening chapter of the Quran and then follow it up with any sura or portion of the Quran before we bend for the prostration. This means we can
recite anything from the Quran and it isnt as if we are telling or talking something to Allah!!! for that we pray directly!

we aint locked up like christians who have to access thier gods via the intermediaries like priests who incidentally they call 'father' which is similar to their chief god also known as 'Father'. nice, just change the capital. We muslims can pray to our Lord directly, we can call upon him in open or in secret, and our Lord Himself has suggested that. read the Quran better... We perform our prayers strictly as explained to our prophet (pbuh) by Allah because we undertake it as a compulsory service asked for by Allah and after prayers we pray for our daily needs in this world and success in the hereafter.

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"Allah did not instruct the Muslims of Muhammad’s time how they were to perform the hajj - one of the important rituals of

their faith, as it was a pagan ritual and they had been performing it before they became Muslims. Nor has He asked them to

kiss the black stone of the Ka’aba. Why?"
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nice to see the ayats you could collect about Haj. Its really a good effort to understand it. But i dont see the derivation of your above sentences from the same. Have you heard of something called Hadith in Islam. Well if you have heard of it as
some collection of quotes of our Prophet (pbuh) then add to it the knowledge that it contains descriptions from men present from prophet's time who have described how he performed the Haj himself.

Now, our Prophet (pbuh) was sent revealations from Lord himself and supposed to be followed because only he would be told or guided as to what is to be done and how. So we muslims simply follow the best we can of the manners and traditions of our beloved Prophet(pbuh).He kissed the stone so do we and even caliph Omar who is quoted in a hadith to address the stone saying somewhat that had he not seen the Prophet kiss it, he wouldnt have done it.

Hmmm... Yeah, certainly i agree, moving around the Holy Kabaa was a pagan ritual and not only that, the ritual involved moving around naked!!! means if u go there then u would find fanatic people keeping aside their blushes and gazes and trying
hard to concentrate their attention to gaining purity of mind and soul... i bet it would be impossible. Well, for one, u are right that we muslims consider Ka'aba to be built by Ibrahim (as) and his son Ishmael (as). It was Ibrahim(as) who originated the custom of revolving around the house and stationed his son Ishmael(as) to be settled there and thats how the city of mecca got formed. Now, Ibrahim(as) or Abraham was the forefather of Moses(pbuh) and Jesus(pbuh) and also Muhammed(pbuh).

So while Israel and Jerusalem were being enriched with Prophets ranging fromMoses,David,Solomon,John the Baptist, and Jesus(Pbut), the arabian penisula observed many changes in the rites and a gradual shift took place to polytheism and as you said
the numerous gods and idols were placed. Yet it all happened after the passing by of Ibrahim(aws) and Ishmael(aws) and both are revered prophets of Islam.

My point is - How have you classified the rites as Pre-islamic and Pagan? I just wanted to ask the methodology because you see if kissing the stone was carried out by Ibrahim(aws) and Ishmael(aws) then this very well went under the allowed acts in
the Haj rite. Now as per bible, Abraham in his later years sinned by resorting to polygamous beliefs (as if their present stand on trinity is pure monogamous) and yet was a rightful prophet because almost all prophets sin big time as per the bible. So supposed that Abraham did kiss the stone and performed pilgrimage around the house he called to be of God.

We muslims approach the subject differently. For us Abraham(aws) was ordered by Allah to build a house at the specified location. He did so. He was given the stone supposed to be from the heaven and place it on one of the external corner. He did
so. He was told it was a piece from the heavens (so naturally it had to come from the above... science can render it as a meteorite). Prophet (pbuh) kissed it in as part of his Haj ritual and so do we muslims. We do not consider it as an Uzza's vulva and the religion of islam has already abolished such hopless created gods of stone. The point i want to make is clear!

- Islam is the religion of Hanif (righteous one) i.e. that of Ibrahim(aws), who always believed in the oneness of his Lord.

So if the settlers in mecca polluted it and the Haj ritual, Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) only brought it back to its original by removing all the nonsense idols and beliefs. Had it been so that he considered the stone as Uzza's vulva he would have let the idols of uzza alone. and might have given them some recognition in the religion.

The conclusion i make is that perhaps the person under the alias Syed K. Mirza is an underaged teen not much exposed to library references in religion and maybe only restricted to certain english thesis and researches in secular libraries that
resort to paganize everything ranging from Abrahams (aws) time,who somehow forgot that Abraham was a rightful prophet also of Judaism as well as christianity. The reason for writing this reply is to put forward a clear stand from a muslim's viewpoint.

I do not consider myself as the expert (alim) in my religion but the basicity of the issues raised here is something this college going guy from India can also reply, Who doesnt understand arabic or speak it yet but is determined to achieve that
in future. He makes ideal his parents and many other muslims around him that learn arabic and invest time and resources into something they can easily understand in english translations but wish to feel it in the original language. Such is the
Quran... when a muslim reads a line in english too one knows that it is something that his Lord Allah has said and preserves it as guidance from his Lord.

Muslims are blind believers of islam.

Majority of the Muslims are the Fuel of Hell’s Fire!
by Mohammad Asghar

11 Sep, 2007

The Allah of the seventh century divided the entire mankind in three groups, and they are:

1. The Polytheists or the Pagans. Known as Mushrikin in Arabic,[1] they were those people who, beside Allah, worshipped idols.

2. The Unbelievers: Also known as the Kafirs in English and Kaferin or Kafirun in Arabic,[2] they were those people who had refused to believe in the prophethood of Muhammad. In a nutshell, Jews and the Christians fell into this category, their Quranic status as the “People of the Book” notwithstanding.

3. The Muslims: They were those people, who not only believed in Allah, Muhammad and the Quran; they also pledged to unflinchingly follow all the commandments of the Quran and to serve Allah[3] and Muhammad[4] in order to qualify for berths in the Gardens on the Day of Judgment.

Allah has not spoken of the Atheists and the Deists etc., as they did not exist at the time He was revealing the Quran to the Prophet of Islam.

In 2006, there were 1.610 billion Muslims in the world.[5] Of them, only about 300 million spoke and understood Arabic. Out of the remaining Muslims, a vast number of them spoke no Arabic, nor were they able to understand it, when others spoke it before them.

The all-knowing Allah knew that Islam would one day become a universal religion and that many of its followers would not understand the Arabic language of His celestial Quran, yet He decried in the same language:

“O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say, - nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (except when traveling on the road), until after washing your whole body. If ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands: for Allah doth blot out sins and forgive again and again.”[6]

Though Allah has clearly stated in the verse certain conditions, which disqualify the Muslims from saying their prayers, yet it can also be taken to be an instruction to all the sober Muslims not to say their prayers without understanding what they are saying to Him through their prayers. Which means that all the Muslims must understand the meaning of each Arabic word they say in their prayers and if they fail to do this, it is not that only their prayers go waste, they themselves commit a major sin by disobeying His commandment He gave them through the Quran.

But have all the Muslims been following His commandment on not saying their prayers without understanding the words they use in them, and if not, why?

As I have stated earlier, only a small number of the Muslims speak and understand Arabic and those of them, who do not understand it at all, they rely on their local Mullahs to make them abreast with the bare-minimum requirements of their faith. Again, most of the Mullahs and even the Memorizers of the Quran do not understand its content in its entirety, as they restrict themselves to understanding only those stipulations of it on which, they frequently face questions from their illiterate people.

Yet, all the non-Arabic speaking Muslims say their prayers in Allah’s language, which is Arabic, telling Him - all the prayers are addressed to Him -, for instance:

“The mutual rivalry for piling up (the good things of this world) diverts you (from the more serious things. Until ye visit the graves, but nay, ye soon shall know (the reality). Again, ye soon shall know! Nay, were ye to know with certainty of mind (ye would beware!) Ye shall certainly see Hell-fire! Again, ye shall see it with certainty of sight! Then, shall ye be questioned that Day about the joy (ye indulged in)![7]

Because Allah indulges in good things of the world, Muslims threaten Him with the Hell-fire of the hereafter. They also tell Him:

“Have We not expanded thee thy breast? – And removed from thee thy burden. The which did fall thy back? – And raised high the esteem (in which) thou (art held)? So, verily, with every difficulty, there is relief: verily, with every difficulty there is relief. Therefore, when thou art free (from thine immediate task) still labor hard. And to thy Lord turn (all) thy attention.”[8]

Muslims tell the above things to Allah in their prayers to Him, without knowing what is stated in the Suras they recite during their prayers. This is a gross violation of Allah’s commandment, and, as such those Muslims who commit it, are the fuel of the Fire of Hell.

Ka’aba and the Kissing of the Black Stone:

Hajj is one of the five pillars of Islam. All Muslims must perform it at least once in their lifetime, if they can afford physically to travel to Mecca. The Quran says:

“And complete the Hajj or 'umra in the service of Allah. But if ye are prevented (From completing it), send an offering for sacrifice, such as ye may find, and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches the place of sacrifice. And if any of you is ill, or has an ailment in his scalp, (Necessitating shaving), (He should) in compensation either fast, or feed the poor, or offer sacrifice; and when ye are in peaceful conditions (again), if any one wishes to continue the 'umra on to the hajj, He must make an offering, such as he can afford, but if he cannot afford it, He should fast three days during the hajj and seven days on his return, Making ten days in all. This is for those whose household is not in (the precincts of) the Sacred Mosque. And fear Allah, and know that Allah Is strict in punishment.”[9]

It again says:

“In it are Signs Manifest; (for example), the Station of Abraham; whoever enters it attains security; Pilgrimage thereto is a duty men owe to Allah,- those who can afford the journey; but if any deny faith, Allah stands not in need of any of His creatures.” [10]

Because the performance of the hajj is very important for the Muslims, the Quran emphasizes:

"And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men: they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways;”[11]

Allah did not instruct the Muslims of Muhammad’s time how they were to perform the hajj - one of the important rituals of their faith, as it was a pagan ritual and they had been performing it before they became Muslims. Nor has He asked them to kiss the black stone of the Ka’aba. Why?

It is said that when Abraham and Ishmael were building the Ka'aba, the stone was delivered to them by an angel from heaven. That story would suggest that the Black Stone is a meteorite, and not necessarily a gift from Allah to mankind.

Farus Nabi quotes al-Kalbi as saying:

“Before Muhammad, the Ka’aba was surrounded by 360 idols, and every Arab house had its god. Arabs also believed in djinn (subtle beings), with many offspring. Among the major deities of the pre-Islamic era were al-Lat (“the goddess”), worshiped in the shape of a square stone; al-Uzzah (“the mighty”), a goddess identified with the morning star and worshiped as a thigh-bone-shaped slab of granite between al Taif and Mecca; Manat, the goddess of destiny, worshiped as a black stone on the road between Mecca and Medina; and the moon god, Hubal, whose worship was connected with the Black Stone of the Ka’aba’. The stones were said to have fallen from the sun, moon, stars, and planets and to represent cosmic forces. The so-called Black Stone (actually the color of burnt umber) that Muslims revere today is the same one that their forebears had worshiped well before Muhammad and that they believed had come from the moon.”[12]

All forms of violence were forbidden in Mecca for four months during the hajj. The Ka’aba was holy ground and a measure of the holiness was its religious tolerance. All the faithful could assemble to honor a time-immemorial tradition. Worshippers of Allah, al-Lat, al-Uzza, Manat, Hubal and even the Christian Arabs, could all come together there. The basis of the worship was astral, the 360 idols relating to a year and involving the Moon, Sun, Venus and the Zodiac, as evidenced in Nabatean and Sabian archeology, in the star and crescent symbol of Islam, and the many references in the Qur'an to Muhammad swearing by the Sun, Moon and Stars.

In this connection, Robert Briffault quotes al-Kindy saying:

“Al-Uzza was the moon, her chief shrine being the Ka’aba at Mecca, where she was worshipped in the form of a sacred stone, … the very stone which the pilgrims to this day visit Mecca to kiss. In doing so the pilgrims recite Caliph Omar's warning declaration: ‘I know well that you are a stone that can neither do good nor evil, and unless I had seen the prophet, on whom be prayer and the blessings of god kiss you, I would not kiss you.”[13]

Karen Armstrong says:

“Al-Lat had a shrine at Taif, which was in a cooler and more fertile part of the Hijaz, and al-Uzza had one Naklah to the south east of Mecca and that Manat, the fateful one had her shrine at Qudayd on the Red Sea coast.”

“When the Arabs venerated these stones they were not worshipping them in any crude simplistic way but were seeing in them a focus of divinity. … The Arabs may not have worshipped al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat in a personalized way, but we shall see that they felt very passionate about them. … Their cultus was confined to their shrines …, but they were an essential part of the spiritual landscape of the Bedouin of the Hijaz, who saw Nakhlah, Taif and Qudad as holy places and sanctuaries where Arabs could find their centre. The antiquity of the Goddesses was another reason for their cult. When they worshipped them in their shrines, the Arabs felt in touch with their forefathers, who had venerated the banat-al-Llah there, and this provided a healing sense of continuity.” [14]

She also notes:

“The hajj was originally an Autumn rite apparently persecuting the dying sun to bring on the winter rains. Pilgrims would rush in a body to the hollow of Muzdalifa, the abode of the Thunder God, make an all-night vigil on the plain by Mt. Arafat, hurl pebbles at the three sacred pillars of Mina and offer an animal sacrifice.”[15]

Muhammad overthrew the old religion of Arabia, but he retained hajj and some other rituals of paganism, as it was his mission to reconcile with the old religion by Islam, of which he was the head, receiving the sanction of the immemorial deity.

Philip K. Hitti says:

“The pagan ka’bah, which became the Palladium of Islam, was an unpretentious cube-like (hence the name) building of primitive simplicity, originally roofless, serving as a shelter for a black meteorite which was venerated as a fetish.” [16] Because the al-Hajar-ul-Aswad (black stone) was believed to have the power of making women pregnant, the Pagans preserved it in goddess al-Uzza’s vulva, to be touched and kissed by the pilgrims, who came to Mecca to perform their hajj and umra. The following illustration of the enclosure of the stone should make my point clear:

In their belief in the efficacious nature of the fetish, the Pagan women went a step further: after kissing it, they offered themselves to the holy pilgrims. From this ancient practice of the Pagans, the Shiites have developed the concept of temporary marriage during the period of pilgrimage. It is stipulated at a fixed date and the parties of such unions do not give signs of recognition if they subsequently meet. Any children of such unions are regarded as a blessing in the family and are looked upon as divine children or saints.[17]

Although Allah has strictly forbidden the worship of gods and their statues, Muslims have been continuing not only to venerate the House of the Pagans gods and goddesses by circumambulating around it, they have also been committing another serious sin by putting their heads into the goddess al-Uzza’s vulva in order to kiss the black stone that remains hidden inside it. This illustration supports my contention:

As a result of the serious sins the Muslims have been committing by venerating al-Uzza’s vulva and kissing the black stone, all of them have been finding themselves in the fire of Hell. The new converts to Islam, who have turned it into the fastest growing religion of the world, are more likely to find themselves in Hell before other Muslims, as most of them convert to it without knowing everything that Allah has written in the Quran.

Allah uses them to feed the Hell, which constantly asks Him: are there more sinners to come to my fire? If there are, send them in quickly, as I am still hungry!

Dr. Nawal Saadawi was the first woman in Egyptian history to be threatened with a forced divorce for expressing a view that was identical to that of mine on the pagan background of the hajj and the absurdity of kissing a stone. She was accused of apostasy for allegedly insulting Islam and its rituals.[18]

Her problems compounded after she criticized Anwar Sadat’s regime in 1981. Dismissed from the government’s post of the Director of Public Health, she found herself on a fundamentalist death list, which forced her and her husband into hiding. During the course of an interview with the journalist Wahid Ra’fat of the Egyptian Weekly al-Maydan, Nawal referred to the historically accepted fact that elements of the Hajj, such as kissing the black stone, had pre-Islamic, pagan roots.

The journalist couldn't believe his ears. All he heard was Nawal calling the Hajj a pagan rite. "You're opening fire," he said to Nawal. "Yes" she replied, "but people should know.”

Ra'fat’s editor ran the story in the Weekly, believing it would run and run. He led the front page that week with the headline: "Dr Nawal El Saadawi says Hajj is a remnant of paganism."

Muslim readers of the paper became insane, and demanded her beheading for making inflammatory claims against their religions.

The Weekly then took up the interview with the Grand Mufti of Egypt for a fatwa (religious edict). The Mufti declared: if Nawal had said what the paper claimed she had said, there was no doubt, she had rejected Islam.

A lawyer took Nawal to court for it to decide if she was greater than Allah and also what right she had to demand equal rights for women. After some prevarication, the court declared on July 30, 2001 that there was not a case to answer. She will not go to prison, nor will she be forcibly divorced from her husband.

End of the Muslims' stand on the Islamic status of the hajj and the kissing of the black stone to wipe out their sins!

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[1] The Quran; 9:5.

[2] The Quran; 2:191 et al.

[3] The Quran; 2:90 et al.

[4] The Quran; 39:53.

[5] http://www.islamicpopulation.com/world_general.html

[6] The Quran; 4:43.

[7] The Quran; Sura 102.

[8] The Quran; Sura 94.

[9] The Quran; 2:196.

[10] The Quran; 3:97.

[11] The Quran; 22:27.

[12] The Book of Idols, pp. 12-29.

[13] The Mothers, vol. 3, p. 79.

[14] Muhammad, p. 64.

[15] Karen Armstrong, op. cit. p. 62.

[16] History of the Arabs, p. 100.

[17] Robert Briffault; op. cit. p. 221.

[18] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/1619902.stm.

some of the people are stupid and ignorant. they don't seem to have any sense about any relegion or god.
If you don't know the truth then don't comment about relegion or god.
Allah doesn't say anywhere that muslims should hate christians and jews or any human beings.
since when did christians start admitting that jesus was raised to the heavens.
he was only raised just before the romans came to arrest and exucute him, but Muhammad (pbuh) was raised to see the heavens and hells and to talk to god but he also came back down to tell the people.
some people say that muslims kill other innocent people of other religions to please god BUT it is totally wrong understaniding about Islam and muslims.those people who kill innocent people they are fanatic and terrorists.
Muhammed (pbuh) was sent as the last universal prophet for the whole world, because after god sent all those prophets, like jesus, moses and john the baptist no one listened to them and killed them. so god sent his most dearest and beloved prophet to guide the ignorant, nonsense and aragont people. so if you want to help yourself look for the truth and don't judge god or god's prophets by the way other people behave because god didn't say you should kill people and those people who kill innocent people around the world whoever christain, jews or muslims are terrorists, fascists and evil. because we are not perfect and only god can judge with his umlimited knowledge and power.
so next time you want to speak about god or his prophets thnk carfully before you say anything.
if you want a peace of mind and knowledge to this world and the hereafter read the last testominy the holy Quran for that's what you will find.

some of the people are stupid and ignorant. they don't seem to have any sense about any relegion or god.
If you don't know the truth then don't comment about relegion or god.
And Allah doesn't say anywhere that muslims should hate christians and jews.
and since when did christians start admitting that jesus was raised to the heavens.
he was only raised just before the romans came to arrest and exucute him, but Muhammad (pbuh) was raised to see the heavens and hells and to talk to god but he also came back down to tell the people.
some people say that muslims kill other innocent people of other religions to please god BUT muslims kill because thats what jews and christians do to the poor, innocent muslims around the world. IN fact christains and jews have killed 100 times more muslims than muslims killed jews and christains.
and muhammed (pbuh) was sent as the last universal prophet for the whole world, because after god sent all those prophets, like jesus and john the baptist no one listened to them and killed them. so god sent his most dearest and beloved prophet to guide the ignorant, nonsense and aragont people. so if you want to help yourself look for the truth and don't judge god or god's prophets, because we are not perfect and only god can judge with his umlimited knowledge and power.
so next time you want to speak about god or his prophets thnk carfully before you say it.
if you want a peace of mind and knowledge to this world and the hereafter read the last testominy the holy Quran for that's what you will find.

It's a great achievement for Islamic leaders and scholars as well as Newsweek and the Washington post to present this imperative opportunity for inter cultural and global philosophical dialogue. What's important is that by exchanging our ideas and comments regarding inter religious relations and world events that affect our views of each other as fellow human beings. Since the advent of humanity, We strove to make sense of the world we live in and the lives we've experienced. Worldwide curiosities to learn the true nature of life and our universe is an exceptionally rare virtue upon life on Earth. In other words, we're the only known species on the planet who've pursued to unravel these great mysteries and developed written philosophies based upon our understanding of the world around us.
One such philosophy that lasted throughout the ages of humanity is commonly known as religion and spirituality. Ever since our early belief in the Sky God and the God Mother from ancient Pagan times, we vigorously pursued to unravel the truth about our most profound questions. As any educated person would know that religion and their core beliefs or faith have evolved over time. Paganism, Monotheism and Polytheism have been influenced by humanity as these great philosophies have influenced our perceptions and decisions in life over the ages. Over time humanity has embraced diverse religious faiths and spiritual convictions that continue to influence our behavior in our times and most likely beyond.
What's vital for humanity's progress and even survival is to know the true nature of faith itself. To understand the true origins of faith. But most of all, is to accept the truth for whatever it may be. Each one of us will learn the absolute truth once we die. But until that time comes for anyone of us to depart this world, we really don't know the answer to God's existence nor do we have the absolute truth in regards to the true nature of God. Besides if we did possess the truth, there would've been only one religion on Earth with no diversification of any way, shape of form. There would only be one holy scripture written throughout human history.
Considering one's religious faith to be absolute, while considering others to be false would be ethnocentric at best. While collectively searching to unravel the mysteries on nature, life and the universe through sincere reasoning and serious research would be enlightening at its worst. Most importantly, we must accept the fact is that none of us have conclusive evidence to confirm our core beliefs and there's always an immanent change that our most cherished beliefs could be wrong. Our greatest challenge would be to tolerate the truth no matter what it may ultimately be. With such an open mind, we would be able to overcome any future discovery that would contradict our faith regarding the true nature of life, spirituality and divinity.
Humanity does have the ability to achieve such a social achievement. However, it's solely up to humanity and not any other entity or groups of entities to decide our destinies. Each one of us has a choice to make; either hopelessly engaging into meaningless inter cultural conflicts or combine our scientific and cultural gifts to thrive into an enlightened global civilization that could ultimately expand beyond our solar system. The choice is yours, and the time to make it is now!

Hehe Buzh ;-)

Hehe.

to hell with all of you dumb, idol worshipping christan zealots. seems like islam is too good for you. and don't even start with me about violence. everyone knows about hiroshima/nagasaki, fate of american indians, colonial era, inquisition and of course iraq. these crimes were/are all committed by christians/evangelists, in the holy name of jesus (peace bu upon him). 9/11 or or 7/7, awful acts of terror by twisted fools (once bedfellows of CIA), pale, rather completely vanish in comparison to these horrific crimes, both in magnitude and root cause. but you unfair dummies will have none of this.

victoria:
i answered you ross because it was a question on specifics in the religion, and you had a misunderstanding.

OK give us the specifics of your religion that caused your conversion to it.

victoria:
religion is one issue- i didnt want you to continue to misunderstand my religion.

You misunderstand your religion all you follow is a satanic deity of a marauding paedophile.

victoria:
my personal life is clearly my own business.

Expect probably when you want boast about your wealthy irish ancestory and how they have state capital and buildings named after them...

atom? surely even the term atom,or atomic was only invented in the last 150 to 200 years?Plus why was it ok to marry a six year old 1400 years ago?Mohamed did that did he not?

atom? surely even the term atom,or atomic was only invented in the last 150 to 200 years?Plus why was it ok to marry a six year old 1400 years ago?Mohamed did that did he not?

gqxs yasf wxom trobjnf xpqodnfca aynldjiw jnkfblexa

Stoning video:

*****WARNING********
Please be advised that the images in this video are NOT EASY TO WATCH. They are NOT suitable for children or people with heart conditions. As unfortunate as it is, this brutal and inhumane action is part of the reality in Iran under the rule of the mullahs and we are presenting it here to further expose the atrocities committed by them.

http://www.iran-e-azad.org/stoning/video.html

Hadia,

As seen in the link above the punishment for adultery in many sharia based muslim countries is death via stoning. Now since those who committed this "crime" of adultery receive their punishment on earth, does it mean this sin will be forgiven after death ???

Hadia wrote:
Describing the Day of Judgment, the Quran says, “That day, people will proceed separately to be shown their deeds. Whoever has done even an atom’s worth of good will behold it. And whoever has done even an atom’s worth of evil will behold that.” (Quran, 99: 6-8).

Hadia,

This applies to muslims only, if it is meant for people of all religions then why are apostates of islam condemened to death in countries that implement the quran based sharia laws ?

i answered you ross because it was a question on specifics in the religion, and you had a misunderstanding.

my responsiveness, an explanation why i wont answer your question is just good manners ross.

religion is one issue- i didnt want you to continue to misunderstand my religion.

my personal life is clearly my own business.

Victoria wrote:
what possible motivation would i have to spend my energies to explain something to one who is openly hostile?
you dont seem to have any real basis for your hatred-
you post nonsense propoganda and since youre prey to that type of shallow hate-mongering-
i dont believe you are receptive to deep and intelligent discussion.
......
.....
...

If you find me so hostile then tell me why did you attempt to answer the question i addressed to Hadia ???? Then when I ask you a simple question like why you converted... you make make all kinds of excuses including calling me hostile.

If you can't stand fire stay away from the flame !!!

ross- first of all, you dont have basic manners.

you belitteld my personal reasons for being a muslim (wrongly) by stating my motives were because i "married into it".

ascribing mindless and insincere intentions to me.

now you say you hate islam, my belief system-

and yet it seems yo really expect your disrespect to be treated with respect!

what kind of fool would i be to respond to hatred and disrespect with my good efforts?

and you even come out and SAY you fully intend to criticize what i proffer!

a childish taunt and dare like , "are you afraid?"
it really has no effect

what possible motivation would i have to spend my energies to explain something to one who is openly hostile?

you dont seem to have any real basis for your hatred-

you post nonsense propoganda and since youre prey to that type of shallow hate-mongering-
i dont believe you are receptive to deep and intelligent discussion.

my response and efforts to explain to you are respectful behavior on my part.

bellicose and disrespectful behavior from a child, i will not reward with gentleness and respect.

from an adult, i certainly wont.

i have my good reasons and dont feel compelled to justify myself to anyone.

if you want to change your tone to one of receptivity- ill engage, but i dont hold out much hope for it.

now peace ross- you know ive never been overtly mean to you and wish you no ill

Victoria wrote:
im happy to share- but it is pointless to engage one who is openly hostile to my religion
i simply dont trust your motives in asking ross

Now this reply is far better and straightforward than your previous post.

Victoria wrote:
dont think you ask out of any real curiosity or desire to know-

I hate islam (not muslims) therefore I'm curious to know why you love it. Is there something to it that I fail to see ?

Well if you believe you've found a true great religion then why are you afraid of criticism ? Have you no faith in the great Allah ?

i dont answer your confrontational questions because-
1) its a long story
2) you make assumptions that are always negative
3) i dont trust your intentions

i dont think you ask out of any real curiosity or desire to know-

you are looking for some way to cast negative apersions and so my energy is better spent elsewhere

you have a very real hatred for islam- why would you pretend to care?

if you have a specific, and quit posting prpoganda-

im happy to share- but it is pointless to engage one who is openly hostile to my religion

i simply dont trust your motives in asking ross

Nicole,

Why did you accept islam ?

Victoria,

Why don't you read what you have written, i asked you the reason why you accepted islam and you give me this conversation you had with this african american. If you think I'm making assumptions then prove me wrong, give us the real reason(s) why you accepted islam.

The last time asked you this question, you told me its a long story that you'll reveal some other time.

Is that so difficult to answer ?

God is a searcher of hearts and minds not of your religious affiliation or lack thereof. We are all judged by not only what we do but why we do it and what we know. Knowing God's Name is not some kind of magic like some people that call themselves christians think it is. As it says faith is a gift that no man should boast, well it seems like there are quite a few people full of spiritual pride out there. Actually everyone will be in the Kingdom and that sure does upset a lot of people that are trying to buy their way in. God did not create hell, you build it yourself but in God's Plan, He won the keys to hell and spiritual death, that sure does make some so-called christians very upset. No one gets away with anything even though by worldly standards it might seem that way. We have free will whether you like it or not. We are all brothers and sisters whether you like that or not. Take Care. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

"Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah's helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us."

"Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah's Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place."

"Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.'"

"Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

“When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action…Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them…If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya [the tax on non-Muslims specified in Qur’an 9:29]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them” (Sahih Muslim 4294).

i realize you dont actually read what i post- so to reiterate-

I BECAME MUSLIM 7 YEARS BEFORE I MARRIED A MUSLIM.

you always make it so easy ross.

yes ross, as a matter of fact- i have provided ample reasons as to my reversion.

i have given pages and pages of reasons.

youre not paying attention.

heres a true story-
it illustrates how peple make ridiculous assumptions without any information whatsoever-

i lived in chicago 5 years, and i met an african american brother. we were discussing how we both came to islam.

there was a period when nation of islam adherents claimed that people with blue eyes are the devil- its from a sentence in the quran (20:102).

it states that on the judgement day, the devils will be white eyed, or blearly eyed with terror.

one qu'ran that was utilized by the NOI says "blue-eyed".

this one tiny sentence was latched onto by elijah muhammad (founder of NOI) to 'prove' that white people are the devil, despite the fact that literally hundreds of passages elaborate on the equality of man and womankind-

it shows that if a person wants to find something to justify their biases and hatreds- and are determined enough- they can do so
9in this case by mis-translating a word- ad then claiming it is the whole message)

of course, most african american muslims today have realized the fallacy and ridiculous nature of this formerly held belief.

the son of elijah, warith deen uhammad has entered mainstream islam and many have left the fold of NOI>

so i was commenting to the brother that, although im a white american woman- i DID NOT become a muslim because i married one.

he smiled and remarked that although he is an african american man, he DID NOT become a muslim in prison.

and we laughed and we laughed.

a tiny bit of 'knowledge' is a dangerous thing, and stereotypes are so stupid, dont you think?

i married 1 year and 3 months ago, and was a muslim about 7 years beofre i married.

so the reversion came many years before the marriage.

thanks for being such an easy foil.

heres my source- the qu'ran of course-

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"If any do deeds of righteousness be they male or female and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them. (The Noble Quran, 4:124)"

"For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in God's praise,- for them has God prepared forgiveness and great reward. (The Noble Quran, 33:35)"

"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other. Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well-acquainted. (The Noble Quran, 49:13)"

The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey God and His Apostle. On them will God pour His mercy: for God is Exalted in power, Wise. (The Noble Quran, 9:71)"

"And their Lord hath accepted of them, and answered them: "Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female: Ye are members, one of another: Those who have left their homes, or been driven out therefrom, or suffered harm in My Cause, or fought or been slain,- verily, I will blot out from them their iniquities, and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath;- A reward from the presence of God, and from His presence is the best of rewards." (The Noble Quran, 3:195)"

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think you get the point.

Victoria wrote:
ROSS- because islam is an egalitarian religion in every way-
OF COURSE women get the same rewards as men in paradise.

So women in an islamic paradise do get 72 male hunks !!! your sources ???

Victoria wrote:
i was a christian and reverted to islam 8 years ago-

You have still not given us a valid reason why you chose islam over christianity (or any other religion) other than the fact you are married to a muslim.

What is there in islam that convinced you it is the right path ?

a salaamu alaikum nichole-

i was a christian and reverted to islam 8 years ago-

your point about the spread of islam peacefully in the east is well taken- and of course glossed over- but dont get discouraged.

also dont forget that the ottoman empire in turkey rescued 10s of 1000s of jews from the spanish inqusistion when the rest of the world turned their back on them.

we have the predictable crew of headbangers showing up to spread their hate-

let the headbangers bang.

while some seem confused by the aspect of no one knowing for sure who does or does not gain entrance to paradise, it has the very tangible benefit in a very real and practical way of keeping us humble.

we cant ever act with spiritual one-upsmanship to any other human-

this is a very important and beautiful way to act, who could disagree?

we cant judge because we dont know.

only ALLAH judges, that her job.

Haia spoke eloquently about the conscious decisions of every minute thought we encounter and how theyre affected by the everpresent reality before us of inevitably standing before ALLAH some day-

(for instance, when she spoke about throwing those leftovers away- we can pretty well assume that since she is aware of the hunger of her neighbors, she is not ignoring it.

as for the preoccupation with our dress?

i see the preoccupation with the state of undress in women seems to be greatly more problematic-
im not sweating it- im proud to be modest- it is the height of silliness to equate backwardness with self-respect.

im betting none of the male posters here who are so preoccupied with the styles of islamic decorum have yet had the experience of watching their teenage daughters wiggling out of the house at night half clothed-

it becomes quite different to them when it becomes personal like that.

o yes, in your list you forgot to mention that the only state that has ever been accused of being a terrorist nation, is the united states of america-
by the world court in the hague for its involvement in the dessimation of civilians in columbia.

we alone have that distinction.

ROSS- because islam is an egalitarian religion in every way-
OF COURSE women get the same rewards as men in paradise.

no distinction is made on the basis of race or gender- only piety.

silly ross- hope that clears it up for you.

Jacob im surprised at you!
first you praise hadia and want to bear all her babies, and then you make such a xenophobic remark!

youre not a racist!

peace jj!

if millions of people in the largest gathering of human beings on the planet every year at hajj praying shoulder to shoulder- millionaires indistnguishable from beggars doesnt elicit some sense of the unity of mankind in you, what will?

im in new york too buddy, and it makes me nervous when you envision destruction of the ka'aba-

or destruction of anything anywhere

peace all

Hadia,

What is the islamic reward for women who enter paradise ? do they also get the male equivalent of 72 houris ?
Why are those in islamic paradise allowed to drink wine when it is banned on earth ?

I can never forget the smiles on 90% (ninety-Percent) of Islamic folks when celebrating the "Magnificant 19" matyres of 911.

Note: They came, attacked & destroyed [Billions in money, caused untold hardship etc..] this G-d Blessed, City ofd N.Y. America. And They are Mostly Saudi!

There will be time when the KABBA in Mecca and the Al aqsa Dome in Jerusalem will have the same fate as the WTC & Pentagon respectfully!

It could happen any day now! This is the price islam must pay for past DHIMMITUDE, current & future Anti-Humanity Thinking & behaviour(s), as history is your own self inflicting Hanging Judge & Jury!

Save your posterity, become Eclatari-On and love the Book Of OURS! Ya Ya.

Nichole:

Your posts imply-

There will be no peace anywhere on earth until global sharia.

Idolizing the Quran

Idolatry arises from an exaggerated respect translating into a misguided religious zeal. This adoration or zeal is directed towards an entity other than God.

Muslims suspect Christians were guilty of this crime when they elevated a Prophet to the status of a God. The Hindus are accused of engaging in such idol worship to the promiscuous point that today they have innumerable Gods.

Shiite Muslims are accused of idolatry when they elevate the status of Ali to an unusual degree. But there is an idolization common to most Muslims: idolizing the Quran.

Words printed on paper are elevated to such a height that they are folded into “Tawiz” and hung around the believers to protect them from disease and the ‘evil eye’.

Such are the abnormal expectations attached to the printed Quran that believers often dissolve it in water and drink it as medicine. Unfortunately it is often the case that the wearer and the one who prepares this ‘holy paper’ or ‘medicine’ are quite often unaware of the meaning of the words.

Other examples of this exaggerated respect as demonstrated by some is kissing the Quran, pressing it against one’s eyes, avoiding pointing one’s feet towards it and sitting below the position of the book.

Lastly an act I often found irrational is the elaborate measures taken to burn or discard all Arabic words that look even remotely ornate or Quran like.

It is not like the scholars of Islam have been ignorant of such idolatry. Many shake their heads over it, shrug their shoulders and exclaim with consternation and blame it in on the times. Others have waged righteous war against all idolatry.

Illustration of such valiant acts is their prohibition of approaching the Prophet’s tomb. This was enacted to prohibit people from praying at the tomb, kissing the tomb and to prevent tying threads and prayer requests.

Another desperate action is the bulldozing of “Jannatul Baqi” (a graveyard holding the greatest martyrs and saints of Islam) to prevent people from kissing tombstones or stealing the sand for purposes of selling them as holy relics and remedies.

Men may say, ‘but what is the harm in such acts of devotion?’ Besides the fact that this is idolatry and therefore a sin, historically Muslims have suffered gravely because they have elevated their Holy Book to irrational heights.

Case in point is the day when a prototype of the Gutenberg press was presented to the Caliph of Turkey for purposes of printing the Quran. The Gutenberg press as we all know is responsible for the resurgence of Europe from the Dark Ages more than any other invention.

When such an opportunity was presented to Muslims before it ever made an impression in Europe the scribes of the Quran rejected this machine and denounced it as an “instrument of the devil”.

The rationale of the scribes was that since the printing press did not perform ablution before ‘writing’ the Quran it was therefore unfit but moreover it was devilish for printing the Quran without performing an ablution.

One sees countless more side affects of such adoration with the riots and public unrest that erupts throughout the Islamic world. Most recently there was the incident of a village Doctor in Pakistan who was lynched because someone accused him of throwing a page of the Holy Book in the sewers. After the lynching the crowd went about destroying public infrastructure, looting shops and vandalizing taxpayer-sponsored property.

Remember idolatry arises not from hatred but an extreme of adoration and devotion. It is when you begin to love a human being more than you love God that you begin to commit idolatry. It is when you begin to love money more than God that you commit idolatry.

It is when you begin to associate irrational zeal and passion to an aspect of religion or a religious icon is when you begin to commit a sin. It is when you misplace the source of your salvation be it money, the saints, books or the Prophet’s family when you begin to elevate something to the status of a God.

Besides it being a sin irrational zeal is a weakness that your foes will most certainly exploit. You have already seen evidence of self-destructive behavior amongst Muslims when a few socialists drew a picture of a pig and wrote “Mohammad” underneath.

The resulting youth riots destroyed the fledgling and meager economy of that region. If you provide sensitive areas and “buttons” that are rooted in an unnecessary reverence your foes will most gladly press it and then watch with glee as you dance towards your destruction. Most importantly it is very easy for your foes to set you against your friends if you provide the world with simple interfaces into your psychology.

From: Idolizing the Koran
A. Shiraz
July 29, 2005

Chowk.com

so does this one:

This lady troubled Muhammand and he wanted her silenced:

Then (occurred) the sariyyah of Umayr ibn adi Ibn Kharashah al-Khatmi against Asma Bint Marwan, of Banu Umayyah Ibn Zayd, when five nights had remained from the month of Ramadan, in the beginning of the nineteenth month from the hijrah of the apostle of Allah. Asma was the wife of Yazid Ibn Zayd Ibn Hisn al-Khatmi. She used to revile Islam, offend the prophet and instigate the (people) against him. She composed verses. Umayr Ibn Adi came to her in the night and entered her house. Her children were sleeping around her. There was one whom she was suckling. He searched her with his hand because he was blind, and separated the child from her. He thrust his sword in her chest till it pierced up to her back. Then he offered the morning prayers with the prophet at al-Medina. The apostle of Allah said to him: "Have you slain the daughter of Marwan?" He said: "Yes. Is there something more for me to do?" He [Muhammad] said: "No. Two goats will butt together about her. This was the word that was first heard from the apostle of Allah. The apostle of Allah called him Umayr "Basir" (the seeing).

Frank,

Nuking mecca or killing muslims is not the way, islam is evil and muslim are the victims of this evil idealogy. We must expose this demon and the deeds of this evil prophet. The action of the prophet recounted below can make any normal human throw up.

--------------------------------------------------
An unwed m o t h e r was stoned to death after she delivered the baby even though she repented profusely.

Narrated Imran ibn Husayn: Book 38, Number 4426:

A woman belonging to the tribe of Juhaynah (according to the version of Aban) came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and said that she had committed fornication and that she was pregnant. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) called her guardian. Then the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said to him: Be good to her, and when she bears a child, bring her (to me). When she gave birth to the child, he brought her (to him). The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) gave orders regarding her, and her clothes were tied to her. He then commanded regarding her and she was s t o n e d to d e a t h.

Jacb,

The Christians like to brag about the two billion of them in the world but when their crimes against humanity, which are numerous, such as genocides, slavery, near total dissemination of local populations under their control, racism and holocaust are mentioned they claim that the perpetrators and such people of nations who committed those crimes are not Christians. So my question then is how many Christians are there? Eighteen, twenty, perhaps.

Nichole,

You are completely wrong. These actions that you list are inconsistent to what Jesus said therefore they are not Christian. "Turn the other cheek." Jesus was a Jew so anyone killing six-million Jews certainly was not a Christian. You show your ignorance in the first point of your post and it continues all the way to your last point the USA is not a Christian nation so you cannot blame the Christians for Darfur. In fact it is the Muslims that are guilty of the slaughter. Muhammad was a murderer and so are his true followers. Jesus turned the other cheek all the way to the cross His true followers would do the same.

Nichole
Your further examples just underline my point: We're talking politics, not religion. None of our holy books recommend this divisive attitude.
You hear me, Frank? None of them.

Thanks for your response Viejita. You're right I completely forgot to mention Christianity being used as a justification for the crimes in South Africa.

Nelson Mandella's organization was listed as "one of the most notorious terrorist groups" according to a 1988 Pentagon report.

If everyone here thinks every Muslim has to take responsibility for Islamic Terrorism then I demand that Christians take responsibility for these actions committed by Christians:

1. The Holocaust---Hitler was a Christian
2. The Inquisistion
3. Witch Hunts
4. The Jewish disporsa in Europe which expelled all Jews.
5. The murder of Muslims in Spain when Christians reconqured it.
6. The Crusades where European Christians not only killed Muslims in the Holy Land but also Arab Christians and Jews as well as other European Christians along the way.
7. The Terrorist activities of the US in:
1. Vietnam
2. Cambodia
3. Thailand
4. Romania--the support of Nicolaer Ceausscu
5. The support of Saddam in the 80's while he\
gassed the Kurds.
6. the support of Turkey's oppression of their
Kurdish population.
7. The support of Ferdinand Marcos in the
Phillipines.
8. The support of Baby Doc Duvalier in the
Caribean
9. The support of Indonesia's President Suharto
10. The support of Zaire's Mobuto Sese Seko
11. Former Sec of State Shultz praising Noriega
for "initiating the process of democracy"
after he stole the election by fraud and
violence
12. The support of Algeria in the murder of
200,000 people since the military canceled
the first democratic elections after an
Islamic party won.
13. The ONLY USE OF ATOMIC BOMBS TWICE ON JAPAN
AFTER THEY HAD TRIED TO SURRENDER ALL
SUMMER.
14. Operations carried out in Honduras, Mexico,
Haiti, Nicaragua, Panama, Cuba, Columbia,
the Caribbean.
15. The support for Apartheid in South Africa
16. The support of Egypt who has one of the
worst Human Rights records in the World.
17. The support of Israel in their forced
expulsion of Palestinians into settlement
camps
18. the act of allowing genocide in Rwanda and
Sierra Leon and Darfur.
19. The support of the mass murders of
Indonesia in East Timor.

Oh my, I could go on and on forever but lets not forget that western civilization has the bloodiest of history ALL TIMES. No one even approaches the acts committed and condoned by the US. Honestly, the public that has allowed this should be ashamed of itself. And people here wonder why the rest of the world hates us.

Nichole

Jihadist,

Again and again we ask you to address the key issue i.e. Mohammed was an illiterate, hallucinating Arab who also had embellishing/hallucinating scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the Koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers. "

But you continue to make "wishy wash talk" with your "expertise" in Western culture. Since your religion wants to destroy our culture, one wonders about your motives. Great Britain can't even trust Islamic doctors, why should we listen to any of your idle chatter.

Thanks anon. for putting it all in perspective; you too Viejita.

Nichole
I don't have an answer for you: your question seems to be chiefly rhetorical. In your examples is a very good point, which is that religion has been an instrument and excuse for political actions, including war and genocide, since before Mohamed walked on earth.
Americans used Christianity to justify manifest destiny, and the Afrikaaners and British used their faith -- also Christian -- to preach apartheid. Those of my co-religionists who want to blame all Muslims for terrorism -- a political problem -- need to take responsibility for the evils perpetuated in Christ's name.

To everyone here:
Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Atheist, Buddhist, American, Arab, White or Black:

Does it make you feel more important, more satisfied to argue about the beliefs of others? To tear apart a religion of a Billion followers? To be racist, sterotypical, and ignorant? To fall to arrogance and obcenity? Does it make you relieved to make sure your personal opinion, not believed by others, is displayed under an alias to hurt and abuse? Does it make you feel more worthy of your own religion, your nationality, and your culture to abuse and argue things you would never know, understand, or simply comprehend? Does it make you feel more human, does it make you feel above others with dark skin, odd names, and different languges, by threatening each other with stupidity and apathy? We live in a world of 6 billion people, of different colors, religions, cultures, and above all different personalities. This difference is what makes us equal no matter what you argue. You will never be above me and I will never be above you. Is this not what God asks within the Bible, the Qur'an, and the Torah, is this not what moral ideal, compassion, and common logic ask of humans. To accept ones differences, to believe what you believe and put upon no others. If you believe one religion, you have no right to critisize another, because you will never understand what it asks, what it speaks, and what it commands. What use is it to constantly batter what another thinks whole heartedly? It only causes tension, hate, and ignorance. You will never change a thought, with violence and argument. Education and open-mindedness is what leads to enlightenment, to acceptance, and to understanding of others. This whole website is filled with constant bickering and hate, but has one of you changed your mind about the beliefs of another? Only that you find the other ignorant and wrong? This is what is ignorant and wrong. You must understand we all believe differently, and if one chooses not to understand these differences, and rather turn their backs, close their minds, shut their eyes, and cover theirs ears (yet keep their mouths wide open) these are the mistakes we make. Can you not look into your own communitity and see the pedophiles, the abusers of women, the killing, the infedelity, and the racists crimes. These actions are not hindered by color, religion, or sex, but thrive in todays society. I feel that it is AMERICA as a country, a society, that is falling... Has an nation, and leadership been this destructive since the Romans? We need not be looking for the answers to death and hate in religion, but rather look in our communities, in humanity, in the world...
We need to ask ourselves, who we are first, and then questions the rest of the world.

[maybe a bomb will land on your lying islamic ass.]

Thanks, Frank, for showing us all what Christians are really like.

Frank, tone down your language please. This is not befitting a person to speak this way and it makes you sound unintelligble.

As far as I can see you have asked no question. What is yours? I will answer it to the best of my ability. Plus, I have never killed anyone so your accusations are rather baseless.

Please answer mine.

Nichole

As far as I can see you have asked no question. What is yours? I will answer it to the best of my ability.

Please answer mine.

Nichole

According to most citizens of this country Arabs are not humans so the millions killed don't matter no matter if it's through "liberation" or the sanctions that came before.

Man plans but God determines? So everything happens because God willed it?

God willed that children be blown apart, limb from limb, in Iraq? God willed that six million of his people be slaughtered during the Holocaust? God willed that little girls be raped and murdered across the world?

You can follow that God if you like. I, however, could never worship such evil.

the london/glasgow would be bombers failed repeatedly at their violent intent. tried and couldn't even kill themselves.

man plans but God determines.

Just what I thought. No one CAN answer. The US is the violent entity.

[If you believe in evolution you believe there is a missing link by faith not scientific proof.]

Evolution, unlike religion, is not a matter of mere belief. The data in support of evolutionary development is vast and continually expanding. It is incredibly compelling, and at this point, irrefutable. We don't "trust" in it. We test it.

There is no evidence in support of creationism, only a volume of stories and myths collected by old religious sects in the Middle East. The "proof" offered by creationist websites and think tanks is laughable, though unfortunately, convincing to those who don't have a strong foundation in science.

But we've seen this all before. Centuries ago, scientists were persecuted for promoting the heliocentric model, which held that the Earth revolved around the Sun. Christians charged that this was an attack on the Bible, which states, "the Earth shall not be moved." Scientists were charged with heresy, anti-Christian activities, and corruption of the public.

The spiritual ancestors of today's Christians were using the same tricks to fight science back then. But thanks to great scientific minds like Copernicus and Galileo, today's scientists know that all they have to do is keep collecting data, and in a century or two, Christianity will evolve just as it had in the past, and evolution will be as accepted (even by fundamentalists) as the heliocentric model. The truth can't be denied forever.

Wow.

Absolutely miraculous story of the pilots' survival in Iraq. PGFWABF.

DOESN'T ANYONE WANT TO ANSWER TO THE US HISTORY?? WHY IS EVERYONE IGNORING THESE FACTS:

The US has bombed and devestated and supported terrorist activities while installing dictators in Nicaragua, Hondoras, Haiti, Cuba, Mexico, Russia, Vietnam, China, Indonesia, Lybia, The Philippines, Brazil, Columbia, Iran (the Shah who ruled with an iron fist for 25 yrs), Thailand and Italy. We called Mussolini "A good chap" and said that the "wops were whopping" with facsism when we were able to invest in the Italian economy while the people were being brutally murdered under Mussolini.

We even had Good old Saddam as a buddy. We removed him from the terrorist list in the late 80's so that he would be eligble for US aid in crushing Iran and the Kurds with weapons that we supplied him. Rumsfeld himself used to visit Saddam under the Reagan regime.

The Filipions we called, "Naughty children that we must disciplined" until we devestated their country as well and installed the dictator Fernando Marcus.

The US was stolen by the blood of the Indians, built upon the blood of the Africans stolen and brought here and finally the US was expanded with the blood of the Mexicans.

Who has a bloodier history than the US?

Nichole

These scares are real-life examples of the rockets that fell on london in Orwell's 1984. In order to keep the people in line for the totalitatian dictatorships to come you need an enemy that is always ready to strike.

Thanks for the tip Wiccan! Have a great day!

Nichole

yes. God will judge.

Two current news stories. Two very different belief systems:

Doctors attempt failed car bombings

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/03/AR2007070300978.html

Army rescue saves downed pilots in Iraq

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/03/AR2007070301200.html?hpid=topnews

Hi, Jihadist! Thanks for the good wishes. Hope all is going well for you.

Nichole-

Frank is a trained parrot:

AWWK! Islam is evil!

AWWK! All Islamics are murderers! (He calls Muslims Islamics because it's hateful, and hate is all Frank's got.)

AWWK! You hate Christians! (He'll accuse you of this if you point out that Muslims are human, and can be bad or good or both, like everyone else.)

AWWK! WEEHOO!

He'll put up the same posts no matter what the topic or what the thread. He quotes Suras and Hadiths without any understanding, and is impervious to reason. Arguing with him is like throwing him a cracker. But you seem to have his number already. :-)

To All: Have a safe and happy Independence Day!

BUY the Palestinian land???!!!! BUY??!! Yeah, that's not the way they do it. They demolish their house with no financial retribution.

How would the US like it if Mexico came and bulldozed all of our houses and expelled the population to Canada or gave us a little piece of land the size of New Jersey with blocked roads and no port? Would the American people stand for it? No, they would fight. Same thing.

Actually, I'm sorry for talking down to you no matter what you say about Muslims. It is my responsibility to set a better example.

That was wrong of me.

Nichole

I'm sorry, I don't have time to respond to someone lacking a chromosone. Better luck next time.

HAHAHAHA!!! Christians survived without killing anyone. Muslims are Islamics!!! Oh my, you either have a GREAT sense of humor or you stick to reading Dean Kontz and Maxim magazine.

/pats the little fella on the head.

Have a good one little fella.

Nichole

As Hadia Mubarak rightly said about Muslim belief on heaven and hell, only God decides on that on Judgement Day for all believers of God and no one else.

As for those who don't believe in God, or adhere to other faiths without God, I leave you all to your unbelief and/or adherence to other beliefs/faiths in peace.

As part of Sura An Nur of the Qur'an stated -"Light upon light, God do guide to It whom It will". So, not for me to force anyone who don't believe in God with threats of them going to hell if they don't.

Happy 4th of July to all Americans here. Hope all have fun with parades and barbeques with families and friends on July 4th.

Peace be with you.

Best regards
J

We are called Muslims! Islam is the religion. We are not Islamics. Geez, you would think that people would be researching such a hot topic.

Please investigate the history of the US. It was stolen by the blood of the Indians, built upon the blood of the Africans stolen and brought here and finally the US was expanded with the blood of the Mexicans.

The US has bombed and devestated and supported terrorist activities while installing dictators in Nicaragua, Hondoras, Haiti, Cuba, Mexico, Russia, Vietnam, China, Indonesia, Lybia, The Philippines, Brazil, Columbia, Iran (the Shah who ruled with an iron fist for 25 yrs), Thailand and Italy. We called Mussolini "A good chap" and said that the "wops were whopping" with facsism when we were able to invest in the Italian economy while the people were being brutally murdered under Mussolini.

We even had Good old Saddam as a buddy. We removed him from the terrorist list in the late 80's so that he would be eligble for US aid in crushing Iran and the Kurds with weapons that we supplied him. Rumsfeld himself used to visit Saddam under the Reagan regime.

The Filipions we called, "Naughty children that we must disciplined" until we devestated their country as well and installed the dictator Fernando Marcus.

Please put down your flag and pick up a book.

Thanks!
Nichole

For the people that say that Muslims don't worship God, please do some research before you make baseless claims. "Allah" means the ONE GOD. It doesn't mean a different God.

Allah is the only God the God of Abraham (pbuh), Moses (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh).

Nichole

Aw, come on, Frank. We know it's you. What's the matter? Got tired of PostGlobal?

If we nuke Mecca and Medina, lets nuke Jerusalem too - I want to prove to the Christians that their religion is false.

Yacob,

Bible was written by man as well.Saul,known as St.Paul,was persecuter.Matthew,Mark,Luke and John were men as well.
Evolution happened,what do you discuss?

David,

We dont dispute everything,but we try to correct inaccurate posts.
Cow chapter 62 doesnt say what you write.
It says 'whoever believes in Allah'(not God).What about 2.161,5.33,5.65,5.72,5.73,3.85,29.68,8.12 such as many others.
Islam is the Cult of the skirted bedouin.
'core doctrine of islam which is peaceful' is a funny word,and,of course,should be corrected.
Could you show me any islamic country where is peaceful?

Ya know, I used to be a Christian, but I realize now why I am not. If I had to spend an eternity with the disgrace that God labels his perfect creations for eternity, I would choose Hell in an instant. Basically every intelligent, worthwhile human being is going there, so why would I want to spend eternity wallowing in the filth that God created?

I think your inept God does need human beings to defend him and his son here on Earth - he is obviously not omnipotent - he can't do anything himself. What a child.

I don't know why it is that so many people think it's important to dispute everything that someone posts here. I've seen it in the comments on every author I've read here. It's especially strong on posts by any author who is not a mainstream protestant.

on a more positive note, the final quote from the Quran: “Surely, the believers and the Jews, the Christians and the Sabians – whoever believes in God and the Last Day and works righteousness – shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve” (2:62).

This is the message of Islam and the Quran that needs to be more widely understood among Christians so that we can recognize the more radical forms of Islam that want to fight us as distinct from the core doctrine of Islam which is peaceful and inclusive. (That message is found in many places in the Quran, not just the instance cited above.)

OB,

Calling people "narrow minded" proves nothing. What do you believe? Evolutionary text books that are written by man? Maybe you just believe in yourself? If so you also believe the thoughts of a fallen sinful man. I choose to believe the Bible that God inspired men to write. That is much better then fallible men who change their text books all the time. By the way evolution is not science as the creation of the earth cannot be observed or measured and no experiment has ever demonstrated that one kind of organism has changed to another kind. Thus we have the term "missing link." If you believe in evolution you believe there is a missing link by faith not scientific proof.

Apply the same standard you want to apply to me. Do not use "someone said so" to prove anything. I do not think you can do what you are asking me to do.

"And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God" (John 3:19-21).

HL,

That is Revelation 19:15 above

HL,

I stand corrected the verse is found in Psalms 2.

The non believer still needs to repent and I contend that these verses are speaking of Jesus Christ as He is the One who rule the nations with a rod of iron. Either way you translate the passage it is speaking of the Son who will rule with a rod of iron. My point is that those who reject the Son like those who believe what the Qur'an says will face God's wrath. Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God?

"From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty" (Revelation 19:165).

“Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him” (John 3:36).

“Serve the LORD with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Son,
lest He be angry, and you perish in the way,
for His wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in Him” (Psalm 2:11-12).

The verse you quoted about “kissing the son” is not in Proverbs 2:12 but rather it appears in Psalm 2:12. The translation from the KJV says:
“I will proclaim the decree of the LORD : He said to me, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession. You will rule them with an iron scepter; you will dash them to pieces like pottery." Therefore, you kings, be wise; be warned, you rulers of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear and rejoice with trembling. KISS THE SON, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.” (Psalm 2: 7-12) Here David is the speaker and he is talking about him being a child of God. You are implying that the verse is somehow talking about kissing the son Jesus; and I don’t see how you can make that connection what’s that got to do with everything anyway?

However, if you look up those same verses in NRSV you’ll find something else totally different:

“I will tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my son; today I have begotten you. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron, and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel." Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, with trembling KISS HIS FEET, or he will be angry, and you will perish in the way; for his wrath is quickly kindled. Happy are all who take refuge in him.” (Psalm 2:7-12) There is nothing about kissing the son nor about serving him but rather the verses talk about serving the Lord.

Why should I put my faith in Jesus? Because the Bible says so? What about the Koran (Quran) or the Torah? Or how about the Sutra Pitaka? Does your narrow mind even know about these other works?

I refuse to believe that any of these books-which were written by man-has any special power over the others in the concepts of religion and theology.

Thus, religious people claim to be right when the reality is that it's nothing more than egotistical self-delusion.

Bring some logical answers as to why any one religion is better than the others. And don't use "the _____ said so" as a retort.

realism and organicism.
the ancient question of mankind ever,when i die and my bones rot and became dust scatered in earth i shall be ressurected again?
the QURAN answered the question,logicaly and narrationally as saying in surat yasin 36/79,
say,he will give life to them who created them for the first time!and he is the allknower of every creation.
from a tiny sperm to a clot to a full growing man to old age to the grave ,wich is easyier? initiating this cycle or repeating this cycle?

he ,who produce for you fire out of the green tree,when behold!you kindel therwith.
the one who created fire out of the green tree is able also to creat the hell fire!

is not he,who created the heavens and the earth able to creat the like of them?yes,indeed!he is the all-knowing supreme creator.
so glorified be he and exalted above all they associate with him,and in whose hands is the dominion of all things,and to him you shall be returned.
surat QAF 50/4
we know that which the earth takes of them(dead bodies)and with us a book preserved (al-laoh al-mahfooz)the book of decrees.
the allmighty creator lord knows exactly each and every single atom of every single dust of bones scatered in every single atom of this earth!yes indeed he is the allmighty .

surat saad 38/27
and we created not the heaven and the earth and all that is between them without purpose!that is the consideration of those who disbelive!then woe to those who disbelive .
surat ad-dukhan 44/38
and we created not the heaven and the earth,and all that between them, for mere play.
does it be fit the creator allmighty lord to just creat this universe and drop mankind on the planet earth and just let them eat work and multiply and die?this is certainly the delusion of the disbelivers in the allmighty creator lord who created life and death.
the here after is as real as this life .its not a joke nor a state of mind nor a delusion nor mental entertainment, none but reality .please be aware and be prepare.

OB,

You are looking for justification for your unbelief. A Christian should not put his or her faith in hypocrital Christians they should put their faith in Jesus.

Islam and Christianity do not worship the same God. In Islam Allah does not punish people he supposedly allows in paradise. Therefore, Allah does not punish all evil and is unjust and unholy.

In Christianity 100% of sin is punished. This means that God is 100% just and holy. The non-believer will be punished in hell for all eternity for his or her sin. The one who has faith in Jesus Christ the Son of God and His sacrificial work on the cross and His resurrection from the dead has had his or her sin punished at the cross. Jesus paid the debt of sin for all who believe in His death, burial, and resurrection. The Qur'an denies these truths, therefore, those who reject Jesus the Son of God and His death on the cross like the Qur'an instructs will experience God's wrath for eternity in hell.

“Serve the LORD with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Son,
lest He be angry, and you perish in the way,
for His wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in Him” (Proverbs 2:11-12).

“Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him” (John 3:36).

I pray that all Muslims will understand that Jesus is the Son of God who gave His life up to pay the sin debt for everyone who believes at the cross. I pray they will believe and be saved.

Who ever she is, she is only talking about the half truth belief/faith of being a muslim. I myself read most part of the quran. They teach revenge against their oppressors. Did you all remember when their mohammad was portrayed in cartoon? Muslims are not loving caring people as they claim they are. Killing innocent NUN just for that? Outraged all over the world against who insult mohhamad. is that love? even some scholars were outraged by this, c'mon! They never tried to stop nor condoned who committed those acts but instead they insisted a forgivenes from the person who created such drawing. If you said you all are loving people why didn't you all send a message to all the muslims to stop acting like some li'l kids fighting over a piece of candy. Peace loving people my behind. Why all arab countries get together and stop the killings in iraq instead using kids to blow up themselves to kill more innocent people. WHY???? You all can see everybody as an opppressor.... and killing is the only means to settle y'all anger against your so called infidels. No they won't do that, they do not want to stop the war. coz most of the arab countries are against their oppresor and oppresor must die. Remember after 9/11? almost all the arab world rejoice about it?
This lady can say that coz she grew up in a civilize world The U.S of A. Trying to cover up the misdeeds of her co- muslims.

there is only one GOD and only one son JESUS.

your bible is as man-written as any of the others. Therefore, it is fallible. Grow up and start living your life for yourself and your loved ones.

THE QURAN.
quran literaly means a readable book ,the book was revealed from the creator lord to abraham is a quran,the book was revealed to moses (the tora)is a quran,the book was revealed to jesus son of marry(the bible)is a quran,the last revelation from the creator lord to mankind(the quran) revealed to mohamed is a quran readable till the last day.
the creator allmighty god bestowed his mercey uppon mankind by giving to mankind the 2:
1-MENTATION,
the ability to reason and reflect.
2-THE NARATION,
readable divine revelation to tell mankind the news of the unseen,the news that mankind mentation will never grab,like the the news of the under ground (grave hole)the news of the here after,the creation of adam and eve ,the secret of life and death ,its a matter of faith,its a matter of test for those who ever belive or not.
the quran,is challegeing mankind mentation to creat a wing of a mosquito if they can?
the quran is challegeing mankind ability of useing the PEN to write just one single verse similar to quran?
untill mankind creat a wing of a mosquito ,until mankind can come up with a single verse similar to the quran, mankind need to humble his mentation and narration and read the QURAN mercey to your mentation and narration ,meanwhile ,life is short and time is runing ,day and night ,sun rise and sun fall,grey hair and wrenkeled skins ,life and death all prove the final destination .carry what ever you want to carry and love what ever you want to love,one day you will die and return back to your creator who created you and intiate you from nothings ,its much easier for the creator who initiate you to ressurect you back.the here after is more realistic than this life,this life is temporal while the here after is eternal .please read the word of your creator lord the QURAN mercey to mankind.
news of the here after in details is plainly and clearly writen in the quran 1428 years ago.

Dear Hadia Mubarek,

You believe in afterlife,the pharoah had believed as well.
Muslims believe in afterlife,ancient egyptians and sumerians used to believe as well.
Afterlife is a 'stone age belief' such as hijab.

Muslims believe in Allah,not God.Correct interpretation of Cow chapter 161 'The believers(only muslims) and the Jews,the Christians and the Sabians whoever believes in Allah...' but,one sentence doesnt reflects exact notion of Quran.Cow chapter 161 says 'Those who reject Faith(only islam) and die rejecting,on them is the curse of Allah' and 5.65 says 'If only the people of Book had believed(islam) and been righteous(muslim),we should remit their sins from them and admitted them to Heaven'

Of course,No one is Guaranteed a Free Pass into Heaven.
You must be 'true believer Muslim' that means you should worship in arabic language 150 times in a month(brainwashing).
You shouldnt show your hairs,
You shouldnt drink a glass of wine,although 16.67 says 'fruits of the date-palm and grapes,when you derive strong drink',but in Heaven there are 'wine rivers' you shall drink in Heaven.

JEKK,
Burqa is not mark of modesty,it is the mark of being third class citizen who has no right to divorce her husband and who is the half of man.
'No one is shoving you or your wife to put on burqa',not yet in U.S.,but almost islamic countries all women are being shoved to put on hijab.

OB,
No one claims that Islam is a violent religion.
Islam IS violent cult.This a reality,not claim.

Mike,

First of all, your comment about “his neighbors (Jews and Christians)” is half truth. There were some Jewish tribes with a large population at the time of Muhammad but there was not a significant Christian community to speak of.

“I have read much of the Quran on line …The Temple Mount (dome of the rock) has much written in it against Christians and laughs at the idea of a Virgin birth.” It seems like you did not come across this verse which says:

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God has chosen you and purified you- chosen you above the women of all nations. "O Mary! worship your Lord devoutly: Prostrate yourself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down." This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto you (O Messenger!) by inspiration: You were not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: Nor were you with them when they disputed (the point).

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God; "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous." She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me?" He said: "Even so: God creates what He wills: When He has decreed a plan, He but says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is! "And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel, "And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel”

Now as far as the verses you quoted that deal with fighting the people of Quraysh whom the Quran refers to them as unbelievers, they are in reference to a specific time and place; and they are by no means to all time to come. The place was Mecca and the time was the seventh century. The directive to fight the unbelievers was not because the rejected the preaching of Muhammad but instead because they were the aggressors and are the ones who initiated the hostilities. It has nothing to do with their religion or the lack thereof. They were the ones who chased the small Muslim community out of their homes, persecuted them, declared war on hem and when they had consented to peace agreements they reneged and broke them when it suited them.

That’s why in the Quran God asks the question “and how could you refuse to fight in the cause of God and of the utterly helpless men and women and children who are crying, "O our Sustainer! Lead us forth [to freedom] out of this land whose people are oppressors, and raise for us, out of your grace, a protector, and raise for us, out of your grace, one who will help!" and in an other verse it is sated that "Permission [to fight] is given to those against whom war is being wrongfully waged and, verily, God has indeed the power to aid them to victory; those who have been driven from their homelands against all right for no other reason than their saying, 'Our Lord and sustainer is God!'"

It is obvious the reason for fighting back is for self preservation and not a plan to convert the inhabitants of Mecca.

Also, it appears that you have missed the following verses when reading the Quran as you have claimed.

"But if they [the enemy] incline to peace, incline thou to it as well, and place thy trust in God: verily, He alone is all-hearing, all-knowing! And should they seek but to deceive thee [by their show of peace] - behold, God is enough for thee! He it is who has strengthened thee with His succor and by giving thee believing followers" (8:61-62).

“Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but DO NOT TRANGRESS; for God loves not the transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; BUT IF THEY CEASE, LET THERE BE NO HOSTILITY EXCEPT TO THOSE WHO PRACTICE OPPRESSION. (2:190-193)

“God does not forbid you that you show kindness and deal justly with those who did not fight you in your religion and did not drive you out from your homes…” (60: 8)

Preach on Jacob

2 Peter 2

1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

1 John 5:20We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

John 6:41
At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven."
John 6:50
But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die.

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
Acts 4:12
12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."
Ephesians 2
6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Jesus Christ is not a religions, many say that Allah is God or that you must confess to the Pope, Wron Wrong Wrong, the Holy Bible says
Romans 10:9-13
9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[e] 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."[f]

those who will enter hell:
revelations 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

doing God's (the true God: Jesus )will is not only based on works n works are not on the top list it about doing and living his word, how you talk, dress, obey his every word about love mercy etc, about crucifying your flesh and not ging in to your sinful nature

Galatians 5:19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

you should get the picture, follow Jesus and not Allah who isnt even real, thats how blinded you can see that a soul is the devil is a lier and the father of it, the quran takes and changes the true word of God(Jesus) and the bible says
revelations 22
18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. heaven is not about have 70 virgins but about worshiping God

wow. Those who read the bible and follow christ, what did he tell us time and time again? REPENT OF YOUR SINS AND TURN TO GOD, AND BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS. It's simple folks. Turn away from your sinful pleasures you hold onto so dearly and follow christ. Search yourself. What do you love? Do you love possessions, swearing, arguing, adultry, gambling more than christ? If you love any of these, you are not saved. You will send yourself to Hell. You have no one to blame but yourself for refusing to follow Christ. You must turn from these sins and trust in Christ. How will you answer Christ when you try to persuade our lord who made the heavens and earth and all life inside it that you realy are a christian? Don't fool yourself by thinking you can fool GOD. Do you think Christ preached cookies and cream while he spent his short time with us? Look inside the bible folks a little harder. REPENT AND TURN TO THE LORD!!!!

I just had to put in a comment. Yes, I have read much of the Quran on line and it shocks me. It is not chronological, but if you date the information, it is easy to see what happend. Much of the "Peace and Love" of the Quran was written when Mohammad was trying to get established and needed to live in peace with his neighbors (Jews and Christians), but once he had power, it all changed to hate of others. The Temple Mount (dome of the rock) has much written in it against Christians and laughs at the idea of a Virgin birth. See the following link for translations of the inscriptions on the dome of the rock. It is really a dis on Christians.
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/DoTR.html
Note that I have seen other books written by a muslim saying the same thing (large picture book etc)

Note the following bits of love from the Quran:

47:4- “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”: thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.”

2:191- “Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out.”

8:12- “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”

9:29- "Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of the Book, (Christian and Jews) who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute (Zizziya tax) by hand, being inferior.”

9:123: “Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.”

Just some examples....

Mike

It seems that most of the people commenting here are expressing signs of desperation as they defend superstition. It really is tragic and frankly a frustrating aspect of existence in America that Americans who have every opportunity for intellectual freedom seem to be lazy, unwilling or perhaps too fearful to take the leap towards enlightenment preferring to embrace the claptrap that emanates from the superstition peddlers, circus huckster clerics. Who in their right mind believes that Noah’s Ark is a true story or that Creationism offers insights into anything? Way too many Americans do for sure. BTW The 10 Commandments are basically wicked and misogynist. What’s the deal with a jealous boyfriend god that threatens damnation and hellfire if you dare check out another god? Isn’t that the modus of ex-lovers who stalk, assault and murder?

Yes of course there is no difference between Astrology, I Ching, crystal ball gazing, Judaism, Christianity or Islam etc. Religion is by definition the practice of myth, magic and superstition. Why we don’t as people seeking the common good take action and indict clerics for marketing something that isn’t proven is beyond me. Superstition peddlers and the whacky beliefs they continue to infect the gullible with deserve ridicule and criticizing for deluding the emotionally immature. When the pope/king dresses up like a Las Vegas show girl and parades on stage chanting magic words while waving a wand a la Harry Potter everyone really should break out in laughter yet thanks to the emotional bullying from childhood religious conditioning most can only genuflect as feudal serfs before a monarch. How crazy is that?

Congrats, Christians! You've vehemently espoused your opinion and belief to a person who is not Christian. She, nor anyone else who is non-Christian, will believe what you believe no matter how strongly you force your beliefs on them.

This sickening attitude of self-righteousness is what drove me to give up Christianity and religion altogether. No one has THE answer. Get over yourselves and try to understand your neighbors. Remember that we're humans first and foremost. We are on Earth together, so try to be humane for the sake of doing what is right for the human race.

PS: For those who want to claim that Islam is a violent religion and that Christianity is above it, look up the history of the US, the Spanish Inquisition, the European invasion of the Americas, etc. LEARN YOUR HISTORY...

Just to reminder our fellow Christians that while Jesus was on this earth he never once discussed the original sin, depravity of man nor the need for blood sacrifice to save man from his sins. It is in the epistles of Paul that we find the theology of the atonement. Paul did not meet know Jesus in person neither did he like to quote Jesus in any of his epistles. We find Paul saying “that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved” but we have Jesus preaching to his fellow Jews that “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one title will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.”

I don’t think what Paul taught and preached bears any resemblance to what Jesus taught. The Christians take it for granted that Paul supersedes Jesus and abrogates his teachings and therefore they are no more the followers of Christ but merely followers of Paul. My I remind you that Paul in the NT is labeled as a persecutor of the Jesus’ followers and never repented nor stopped pursuing them before his said conversion on the road to Damascus. Why then would God choose Paul instead of anyone of the other twelve apostles whom Jesus Chose and favored among his fellow Jews as his companions. And how do you know that Paul is telling the truth knowing how Paul's theology expressly contradicts many of Jesus' teachings?

To reiterate once again, the reality of it all:

A synopsis of the foundations of the major contemporary religions:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth. Analyses of his life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists)via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian sects.

3. Mohammed, an illiterate, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the Koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

4. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centred and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’"
The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/BUDDHISM/SIDD.HTM

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations/embellishments and myths surrounding the founders of said rules of life.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus for an analysis of Jesus' life to include his illiteracy.

Thank you, Hadia, for such an excellent, well written perspective. Though I am a Christian, I agree that it does not guarantee me a place in or out of heaven.

Thank you for sharing this, it made my evening!

There is an idea-that we should all be wicked if we did not hold to the Christian religion.
It seems to me that the people who have held to it have been for the most part extremely wicked.
You find this curious fact,that the more intense has been the religion of any period,and the more profound
has been the dogmatic belief,the greater has been the cruelty,and the worse has been the state of affairs.
In the so-called ages of faith,when men really did believe the Christian religion in all its completeness,there was
the inquisition,with its tortures;there were millions of unfortunate women burned as witches,and there was every kind of cruelty practiced upon all sorts of people in the name of religion.
You find as you look around the world that every single bit of progress in humane feeling,every improvement
in the criminal law,every step toward the diminution of war,every step towards better treatment of the coloured races,
or every mitigation of slavery,every moral progress that there has been in the world,has been consistently opposed by the organized churches of the world. I say quite deliberately that the Christian religion,as organized in its churches,has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world.

Only GOD can judge mankind on judgement day.
Christians,jews,muslims,budist, All mankind will be judged and only GOD knows who will enter into heaven. I do agree in principle what Haida said, and if we all just try and do what is correct and moral then these comments would be pointless.
OH yes I am a Born Again Christian who agrees with a muslim and who fought in the first gulf war
against mulims and who agrees in fighting extremism of islam, christianity, and any one who
wants to destroy humanity.

The previous poster is completely oblivious to his own religion's history of violence and murder. Such ignorance amongst Christians today is astounding.

I believe in Hell and those who persecute God's people like the Muslims below will be there unless they repent.

Lawyers in Pakistan are investigating a report that up to 30 men tortured and gang-raped a young Christian man for refusing to convert to Islam.

Comments from Joel: Think of the utter absurdity of this. Because he would not convert to Islam, they sodomized him??!! Does this verse pop out for anybody else? But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be … unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.

The victim is seriously injured and unable to move, Release International’s partner in Pakistan has reported. However, according to the Centre for Legal Aid Assistance and Settlement (CLAAS) the police are keeping him locked up and have denied him medical treatment.

The police are also refusing to register the rape following a counter-claim made by his principal attacker – “a man of influence”, Release International has told Christian Today.

According to CLAAS, the Christian was invited to a game of cricket. A quarrel broke out and he was beaten up. Later that evening, the father of one of the Muslims asked the Christian over to his house.

Joseph Francis, the National Director of CLAAS, explained: “When he entered the drawing room, he found it filled with unknown people. They began to beat him severely. They threatened him with dire consequences if he did not accept Islam. After his refusal, they committed sodomy with him one by one for the whole night.”

Francis said that they later threw their victim out on the street unconscious.

CLAAS has visited the victim and his family. They believe the counter accusation that he stole money and a mobile phone is false. They say the charges were drawn up by the attacker, who has used his influence to put pressure on the authorities.

“We’re deeply concerned about the growing number of attacks against Christians in Pakistan,” says Release International’s CEO Andy Dipper. “We are receiving reports of rape, abductions and forced conversion. Pakistan is becoming an increasingly difficult place for Christians to live.

“To make matters worse, the government is pushing through a law which could impose the death penalty for any Muslim man who converts to Christianity – and life imprisonment for any woman.”

“As well as being an attack on the basic human rights of Muslims, this will also make things harder for Christians who preach the gospel,” concluded Dipper.

Release International is appealing to Christians to pray for the victim and for the lawyers at CLAAS, who are dealing with a growing number of atrocities against Christians.

Tim,
The reason why women cover up is called modesty, which I believe is a virtue. It is to prevent unacceptable conduct. Reading your post, I don't know if you know what modesty is. Obviously you are not able to comprehend what an opinion or a what a belief is. Islam is a religion, as Christianity, as Judaism, and so forth. No one is shoving you or your wife to put on a Burka, and you subtly illustrated that you are not Muslim. No one is telling you sitting in front of the computer is in violation or wrong, so who cares? No one is obliged to do anything, nor are you. So get over it and yourself, you don't believe in Islam, that is completely your choice, and to be honest and do not think anyone cares. You believe what you believe, and leave others to their beliefs. You are just one soul in a world of billions, so get over yourself, and realize you aren't here by yourself, and your thoughts are those of the majority. Arrogance, ignorance, and bashing... this will get you heard. I applaud you.

I converted to Islam from Christianity and I found what Hadia said to be very interesting.

To those that claim that Islam was spread by the sword, why is it then that the largest Muslim populations are in China, Malaysia and Indonesia? These countries were never conqured by Muslims. They only had contact with Muslim traders and converted in mass numbers.

Why is it that when Muslims ruled Spain, they didn't force conversion but when the Christians re-conqured Spain they forced the Muslims there to become Christians or they expelled or killed the ones who refused?

Fear of Hell would be a sure ticket there - was it not Rabiah of Basra who said:

“O God! If I worship Thee in fear of Hell, burn me in Hell; and if I worship Thee in hope of Paradise, exclude me from Paradise; but if I worship Thee for Thine own sake, withhold not Thine Everlasting Beauty!”

The idea of an omnipresent and omniscient God creating a Hell in which sinners suffer is an absurdity -- God is in all things!! God would be in Hell as well; God knows all things!! God would know how it is to suffer as those in Hell....

Pandeism is the logical answer: God became the Universe to answer God's only burning question, what is the experience of being an entity with limited power? That is us, we are God's experience of limitation.... our Heaven is the good that we do for one another, our Hell is the harm we cause one another, and according to at least one theory of Pandeism our reward or punishment in the next world will be, in returning to God, experiencing the good we did and the harm we did to others!! That is the truth of Pandeism!!

I won't even get into all of the violence inflicted by the hands of Christians. Were the crusades and the inquisition not terrorists acts?

These comments are TOOOOO funny to me. I was raised as a christian, and thankfully I learned early on that they, too, have it just as "wrong" as they claim everyone else has it. It's laughable, to hear self-proclaimed christians hating on another human being. "Beware of the righteous..." Sound familiar, christians?

We are all God's children. Not one of us excluded. And God loves each and every one of us, even if we don't love ourselves. But holding beliefs as dogma is usually the quickest path to war, genocide, witch-hunts, and arrogance... or, as some might view it, Hell.

"For example, I continue to overcome stereotypes associated with the headscarf I wear for one reason only: hoping that God will be pleased with me when I stand before Him on the Day of Judgment."

Hadia, God could give a damn about what you are wearing. The statement you made above has got to be the most ridiculous statement I've ever read on this web site. BTW, I am wearing my underwear right now. I hope that does not anger Allah. What do you think? My wife is probably going to hell because she violates your middle ages, Islamic dress code every day. That must really stoke up Allah. Allah wants his women to obey a dress code. I know, I know, there are no guarantees the dress code will work but it might just do the trick if Allah is in a good mood on the day you die. If he is cranky that day, then the dress code is all for nothing.

For anyone wanting a real laugh, go to the web site below for a look at a real-life Burka swim suit. It just illustrates how silly all this can burka dress code stuff can get.

http://www.uem.es/web/arq/profesores/invitados/Burka.jpg

I am sure that Allah will be pleased with this swim suit burka, as well as his his pedophile prophet, Mohamed.

Hadia, the real reason for a dress code is control. If a person or organization can impose a dress code on someone, then they gain control of you. Think about it.

[Christians for sharing (not forcing) their faith of God's holiness and love.]

Christians don't share their faith. They push it. Even when their advances are unwanted, they push it. None of my Muslim acquaintances have ever discussed their beliefs with me, while the Christians in my life won't leave me in peace.

And for those who (deceitfully, mind you) insist that the Muslim god commands violence while the Christian god does not, you must never have read your Bible. It is just as violent as the Koran.

Happy is the man who takes your children, crushing them against the rocks.
Psalm 137:9

The Prophet Muhammad was a ledgend; an intelligent, compassionate man that brought forth the word of God. If he was not as amazing, why did millions follow his word? Muhammad did not need magic or dillusions, Muhammad's word had faith and so did countless others, powerful with spirit. If you saw God with your own eyes, that means you could never deny God, and thus their is no test, no concept of religion, and no concept Heaven nor Hell. It was not because people believed in Islama at the tips of the sword, but rather for what Islam entails. These concept I will not go into for those who know nothing of Islam, and even for the those who believe they do should still investigate, and read the Qur'an without bias. Yet Islam is full of spirituallity, it is full of peace and of love, and brings joy and fullfillment to the followers of the Qur'an. Jesus is our Prophet, and so is Muhammad, and Moses, Abraham, and countless others. Yet Muhammad, the Seal of Prophets finally drove the word home, away with corruption of the Old Testament, and with the final and beautiful word of God, the miracle of Islam. Jesus, nor any other soul can change our fate, for it is we who choose and we who act. Our testament is to God, the one and the only. Prophets spread His word. Why do we need anyone else, when it is God who judges, God who created, and God who takes away?

The problem with Hadia's opinions is that they are significantly clouded by basic Ismalic "theology", a theology that preaches "death to unbelievers and those seeking to leave the dictates of one hallucinating Arab and his militaristic and anti-female scribes.

Once again an observation:

Gators vs. Muslims??? Gators definitely will kill. Muslims, it depends but with the koran as their operating manual can we trust any of them? Our friends in Great Britain are learning this the hard way in the last few days.

Sorry... My computer was having issues and I could not tell if it was sending the message or not.... but it did, 3 times. I apologize...

Gosh anymore its hard to believe anything about the muslim faith. It should be the kiss of death.
The sad part of it all, you worship a false profit. One that is not loving, like he leads you to believe. I need no appointment or direction to pray. Is thier a spirit for the muslim world? I doubt it, now show me all the miricles your profit has done.... Thoughts and dreams of an everlasting life are only with our saviour Jesus Christ. Remember thier are no others before him.

Gosh anymore its hard to believe anything about the muslim faith. It should be the kiss of death.
The sad part of it all, you worship a false profit. One that is not loving, like he leads you to believe. I need no appointment or direction to pray. Is thier a spirit for the muslim world? I doubt it, now show me all the miricles your profit has done.... Thoughts and dreams of an everlasting life are only with our saviour Jesus Christ. Remember thier are no others before him.

Haida shared and voiced her opinions. Other christians have shared and voiced their opinions. The comment was made that everyone is entitled to what they believe. This is true. But when it comes down to the final analysis.... and we die...and we do stand before God... the Truth will be then known. It's not going to matter what each person's 'personal individual belief' was. All that is going to matter is what the truth really is. Hmmm... how are we to know this? How is such a thing determined? I personally am a christian. I believe we are saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ. But I am not here say that ..."We are right. Our truth is the TRUTH." God can defend his son. God is perfectly able to answer for Himself. But the deeper issue for me here is not that I have to "Prove we are RIGHT." It's that our Bible teaches that God does not wish that any should perish. "God so LOVED THE WORLD that HE gave His only begotten son..." John 3:16. My heart is FOR Haida. It's not from an arrogant attitude of wanting to prove her wrong. It's a heart of love that would say to her..."You don't have to earn God's approval. His love is unconditional...". Salvation is a gift... not to be earned but to accept. This is a choice. God bless you Haida....

Haida shared and voiced her opinions. Other christians have shared and voiced their opinions. The comment was made that everyone is entitled to what they believe. This is true. But when it comes down to the final analysis.... and we die...and we do stand before God... the Truth will be then known. It's not going to matter what each person's 'personal individual belief' was. All that is going to matter is what the truth really is. Hmmm... how are we to know this? How is such a thing determined? I personally am a christian. I believe we are saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ. But I am not here say that ..."We are right. Our truth is the TRUTH." God can defend his son. God is perfectly able to answer for Himself. But the deeper issue for me here is not that I have to "Prove we are RIGHT." It's that our Bible teaches that God does not wish that any should perish. "God so LOVED THE WORLD that HE gave His only begotten son..." John 3:16. My heart is FOR Haida. It's not from an arrogant attitude of wanting to prove her wrong. It's a heart of love that would say to her..."You don't have to earn God's approval. His love is unconditional...". Salvation is a gift... not to be earned but to accept. This is a choice. God bless you Haida....

Haida shared and voiced her opinions. Other christians have shared and voiced their opinions. The comment was made that everyone is entitled to what they believe. This is true. But when it comes down to the final analysis.... and we die...and we do stand before God... the Truth will be then known. It's not going to matter what each person's 'personal individual belief' was. All that is going to matter is what the truth really is. Hmmm... how are we to know this? How is such a thing determined? I personally am a christian. I believe we are saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ. But I am not here say that ..."We are right. Our truth is the TRUTH." God can defend his son. God is perfectly able to answer for Himself. But the deeper issue for me here is not that I have to "Prove we are RIGHT." It's that our Bible teaches that God does not wish that any should perish. "God so LOVED THE WORLD that HE gave His only begotten son..." John 3:16. My heart is FOR Haida. It's not from an arrogant attitude of wanting to prove her wrong. It's a heart of love that would say to her..."You don't have to earn God's approval. His love is unconditional...". Salvation is a gift... not to be earned but to accept. This is a choice. God bless you Haida....

Yes we can go to heaven.. but only if we accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.. believe He died for our sins, and rose from the dead.. and you shall be saved.... by no other way will anyone enter into heaven.. for Jesus holds the keys... Read the bible and it will tell you the very same thing.. there is only ONE true GOD and ONE JESUS CHRIST.. and only one Bible...

Once again, Anonymous:
No, to kill others not in self-protection, and to kill oneself, even in the name of God, does not get one in to heaven. Atleast this is what is written in the Qur'an. Does it make you feel relieved to have expressed your transparent idea that Muslim and terrorism are hand in hand, that to kill in a covanent of Islam. Have you asked the men and women in mental instiutions and prisons why they kill?
Maybe you should read the Qur'an, maybe you should educate yourself before making assumptions. You only make yourself look like a fool to be ignorant to say that Islam justifies murder and suicide.

You have it all wrong. Simply "saying I'm saved" or making a proclamation of faith is not enough according to most mainstream Chrsitian churches. You must display your inner faith through your works. As St. James said in his epistle: "If one of you says to him, 'Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." Or as Jesus Himself said, "You will know a tree by its fruits". Keep that in mind before you judge all Christianity. Our faith is deeper than the utterances of a few peddlers of easy answers.

You have it all wrong. Simply "saying I'm saved" or making a proclamation of faith is not enough according to most mainstream Chrsitian churches. You must display your inner faith through your works. As St. James said in his epistle: "If one of you says to him, 'Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." Or as Jesus Himself said, "You will know a tree by its fruits". Keep that in mind before you judge all Christianity. Our faith is deeper than the utterances of a few peddlers of easy answers.

No individual is guaranteed a free pass into Heaven?
Are you kidding?
You mean the 9/11 bombers did not get a fee pass to heaven? you mean they died for nothing?
They gave their lives to Allah,and took 3000 people
with them.....and all for nothing?
Bummer!
Maybe they should have talked to you first.
Now,about these doctors in Britain...who tried to blow Brits up in London and Glasgow over the weekend.What are they up too?
Are they trying to get a free pass to Paradise?
Or do they just hate Brits?

Hey Hadia, hello from a fellow Hoya! Just wanted to say that you made some great points. I think you describe perfectly the attitude God wants us to take towards the afterlife.

I would like to add that I find some of the comments made here absolutely disgusting. This is perfect example of why it is so hard for an inter-faith dialogue to get started...someone expresses her beliefs in a thoughtful, respectful way, and some so-called Christians respond by throwing mud. Perhaps if they had taken the time to get to know their own faith better before blasting Islam, they would have found that Hadia's beliefs on works aren't that far from what the Bible teaches. Since you all don't seem to have time to look it up for yourselves, let me quote Matthew 25 to you:

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

This Scripture would make me pause before I started yelling about how accepting Jesus into my heart at age 9 means my actions afterward don't matter anymore. According to Jesus Himself, works DO matter...they matter far more than most churches will tell you they do.

The great English philosopher wrote the following fifty years ago;
"There is an idea-that we should all be wicked if we did not hold to the Christian religion.
It seems to me that the people who have held to it have been for the most part extremely wicked.
You find this curious fact,that the more intense has been the religion of any period,and the more profound
has been the dogmatic belief,the greater has been the cruelty,and the worse has been the state of affairs.
In the so-called ages of faith,when men really did believe the Christian religion in all its completeness,there was
the inquisition,with its tortures;there were millions of unfortunate women burned as witches,and there was every kind of cruelty practiced upon all sorts of people in the name of religion.
You find as you look around the world that every single bit of progress in humane feeling,every improvement
in the criminal law,every step toward the diminution of war,every step towards better treatment of the coloured races,
or every mitigation of slavery,every moral progress that there has been in the world,has been consistently opposed by the organized churches of the world. I say quite deliberately that the Christian religion,as organized in its churches,has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world."
Bertrand Russell
"Why I Am Not A Christian"

And for Tim W.
Your opinion nor is your pity needed in regards to Muslims, and if they achive acceptance in heaven. You do not chose, nor can you judge ones actions.

"No individual is guaranteed a free pass into heaven..."

Youd don't know anything about it and neither does anyone else.

In my humble opinion, God gave us two choices. One, do the right things and you shall be rewarded. Two, do the wrong things and you shall be punished. I also believe that God gave us free will, meaning that God will not intervene in our suffering. Therefore, it is up to humanity to yearn for a better existence here on Earth. It's really simple when you think about it. It's we humans who ultimately dictate who suffers and who doesn't. This world could be the perfect reflection of heaven if every human being would strive towards a better existence vs. trying to attain material things. We should strive towards peace and happiness with our hearts set on achieving the ultimate goal, which is helping each other.

I believe Haida did well in her analyisis. For all those who believe in Jesus Christ, and that he was sacrificed for the sins of humanity, those who believe wholly in the Bible should realize that these are your beliefs as a Christian. What Haida wrote was her personal beliefs as a Muslim. It is her opinion that one should recognize that is what she is trying to relay for others. She was not asked to do it to recognize the beliefs of others, but rather her own. One should read, recognize, relate and in some cases realize that Muslims and Christians believe in the doing of good and bad deeds, and how these will reflect upon our next life. More importantly, terrorist, extremist and the opinionated belief that Muslims kill others and themselves will lead them to heaven. Those who do are misguided and apathetic, and should read the Qur'an for themselves. This article was written to unite and educate, not for ridicule and ignorance.

I find it a continual affirmation of the spark of divinity found in each individual that we Jews, Christians, and Muslims can all share the one God yet have millions of different persepctives of how the one God's expectations of our behavior will affect our existence after this life ends. Anyone who believes in the Heaven/Hell dichotomy that thinks s/he can bypass accountability may want to rethink the logic of that before their personal judgement day. There is no such thing as a free pass, either in life or after it.

I thank Hadia Mubarak's sincere and thoughtful sharing in her posting. I find it important for those of different faiths (and I would include atheists and agnostics here) to share their hearts with one another in an effort to find greater understanding. I admire Hadia's ability to thus reach out and I commend her on stating her thoughts and feelings so beautifully.

Hadia's thoughts echo many things I hear from Islamic believers all over the world. I am both enlightened and saddened by this. It is enlightening in that it helps to understand some of the underlying tennants of the Islamic faith. It is saddening because it reinforces that few muslims, if any, can claim any assurance in their faith that they will reside with the Lord (Allah) in heaven. I would point to that as one of the largest differences between my faith (Christianity) and the Islamic faith. This difference stems from our different acceptance of Jesus, although the Muslim's view of Jesus may be much closer to our's than many would guess, the difference is simply this: As a Christian, we know that we are saved from Hell and gauranteed, not a free pass, but a welcoming into God's presence for eternity; as a Muslim, one knows not whether their actions are enough to allow entry into "paradise," whether upon death, or later.

P.S. Hell is on earth and to be with God is heaven. My belief.

Praise God

John 3:18 (the words of Jesus Christ) He that believeth on Him (Jesus Christ) is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the Son of God.

Romans 5:12 Wherefor, as by one man (Adam) sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men for all have sinned.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Chris our Lord.

These three verses sets the stage for a beautiful picture.

1) You are already condemned. God did not condemn you, but you did by sinning, which is disobedience to God's law. When you sinned you entered into a condemned building, which could come down at any moment, and eternally crush you.
2) God so loved you that He chose to make a way for you to get out of that condemned building. He sent Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, to pay your sin debt. He has taken your sins on Him. Romans 5:8 says, "But God commendeth His love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us".
3) You are invited by Jesus Christ to leave the condemned building. Not to be homeless, in the rain and cold. For He has an eternal building that you can move into immediately. Its at His expense, for it is His gracious gift to you (but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord).
4) Its your choice. Stay in the condemned building, risking eternal death in Hell, or come unto Him as Lord and Savior, and move into eternal life where you will never be condemned.

Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God, not of works, least any man should boast.

ITS YOUR CHOICE

We are, "Together Forever With Source-One!

Please, people. Hadia Mubarak is an outstanding person who lives by her beliefs. I have a remarkable amount of respect for this young woman and that does NOT come easily. She was kind enough to share her thoughts and beliefs with us AND gave novices a glimpes into the Muslim world.

How can any of you self-proclaimed Christians judge her or any other person and still look yourselves in the mirror and proclaim your righteousness? For shame.

Follow your hearts. Know God. Really feel him in your heart. Don't be "afraid" of Him ... just live your lives in such a way that He KNOWS you love and respect Him and His creations.

Praise be to God.

The bible mainly speaks of 'hell' (translated from Greek or Hebrew) as a grave, big cave down in the earth, etc. There is, though, reference to a consuming fire (greek 'gahenna') what will consume (that is, the lake of fire...after the final great white throne judgement - following millenial reign of Christ on earth)..not with red horned beings with pitchforks or turning people on a spit forever and ever. All myth with no biblical basis whatsoever. Just as going to heaven is a widespread deception. Scripture speaks of those who sleep in the grave until the resurrections. Yes, two resurrections. Very clear scripture states no man has ascended to heaven. Gods kingdom will be set up on this earth, with a new heaven and earth following the millenial reign of Christ and the great white throne judgement. The adversary certainly has had his part in deceiving most of mankind thru the ages, as Rev 12:9 informs us.

This is one of the more thought-provoking postings on this question. It's too bad that some of my Christian brethren and some of her Islamic brethren can't restrain their urge to purge the "other" long enough to engage in a dialog aimed at creating genuine understanding and love between all people. Jesus would, God would, and Allah would. Why not us?
As to the question of "heaven or hell", there seems to be no question that both Christians and Muslims believe in both; the parallel question is "how is one qualified or disqualified from each?"
As to the difference (there is one) between "believing" or "knowing" about heaven and hell, I will leave you all to a study of Thomistic epistemology.

to research student you speak the truth until time does come we help when we can and only if we can in hopes we are not punhise for such actions...but be rewarded for we belive that one day this hunger and poverty will be driven from us ...i belive all religions speak the truths speakeing of the common god ..creater of all living things good and bad ....gob bless us all

Why does the Quran mention Christians ? Christians did not exist when God made Adam and Eve. Is it acceptable to ignore Jesus as the son of God and turn to Mohammed 600 years after Jesus ? Who came first ? What purpose would God have to send Jesus to fulfil God's work on mans understanding only to have another come to eliminate His previous purpose.It seems to me that the Quran repeats many things already laid into law for mankind (i.e. that the Jewish bible and Gospel became manifested with a twist and spin to favor away from Jesus's prophecy). Why would God confuse man by sending Jesus to perform miracles of God then allow Mohammed to supercede Him ? Why does the Muslims believe Mohammed ascended up into the clouds to Heaven like Jesus did centuries previously ? Why do muslims believe Allah said and wrote to them before existance that the Jews and Christians would hate them, when the none existed before adam and eve, but it was prophesied five thousand years ago that it would be the muslims or anti-christian movements that would hate the Jews and Christians> The Quran quotes seem to start off good, but something from God is always missing.

I find it interesting that the average person is adamantly condemning Christians for sharing (not forcing) their faith of God's holiness and love. But Muslims who kill non-muslims "infidels" don't get attacked nearly as much.

To me its obvious that all humanity is in a spiritual battle. Christians are commanded to fight for others souls with love and compassion but Muslims kill and force people to convert. This is obvious by day to day news headlines and reiterated by the leaders of these different faiths.

There can be only one truth and everyone knows love is greater than hate. Our God Christ is love.

Hell - Yes
Heaven - Yes

Such a beautiful Sister at large! Wow. So Smart. 5 Stars ya! I would love to have 12 kid's by you!

I agree that we need to help the needy, but why on earth would you worship a God that holds you personally responsible for starvaton and poverty. If God created all things he created poverty. He created starvation. Andm if he is all powerful, he could stop it if he was so inclined.

As for your quote from the Quran “That day, people will proceed separately to be shown their deeds. Whoever has done even an atom’s worth of good will behold it. And whoever has done even an atom’s worth of evil will behold that.” (Quran, 99: 6-8) It should be remembered that we live in a world where where many of the most adament "followers" of Mohammed and the Quran believe killing all non-believers is the utmost act of "goodness" and so they kill and kill and kill with absolute "faith" that God will reward them for it. Such is not a God I can believe in.

People that need the threat of horrific punishment to behave frighten me.

actually we ARE given a free pass into Heaven for it is by grace and faith that we are saved through the death and suffering Jesus and His Ressurection.
The price is covered by His blood and we only need to ask and recieve Him as our Savior into our heart. How great a price . How awesome a salvation from HELL! ETERNITY IS GOING TO HAPPEN. FOR EVERYONE.... ITS EITHER HEAVEN ETERNALLY OR HELL. IT IS STILL A FREE CHOICE...

I believe feeding the hungery is what Jesus Christ did many of times and so if He found joy in feeding the hungery why wouldn't I!!! But what I don't think you get is that it isn't about I it is about Jesus Christ and what would please Him, doing good is what He done His whole life on earth.

I would like to say that works will not get you to heaven only by believing that Jesus Christ died for our sins and has been risen from the dead. And to continue to serve the risen Lord Jesus Christ.

So, basically you're saying that if it weren't for a great punishment, you'd have no interest in doing good? Is the goodness of an act itself not enough to motivate you to do it? Would you not feed the homeless out of sheer joy that their suffering has abated?