Gustav Niebuhr
Director of the Religion & Society Program, Syracuse University

Gustav Niebuhr

Niebuhr is an associate professor of religion and the media at Syracuse University and directs Religion & Society Program, an interdisciplinary undergraduate major.

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Our Muslim Allies

"Allahu Akbar!" It's an Arabic declaration, meaning "God is great!" And it is remarkable that the men and women shouting it, each night, from the roof decks and housetops of Iran's capital city, Tehran, are people with whom many Americans actively sympathize. At long last, nearly eight years after 9/11, Americans (including conservative politicians, no less!) have discovered Muslims they see as allies, not enemies.

Those brave men and women who have risked arrest, injury, even death to demonstrate, denouncing a presidential election they regard as fraudulent--they have become our nation's "heroic Muslims." No longer (one fervently hopes) is the word "Islam" to be conflated in the American mind almost solely with a renegade mass murderer, holed up in a cave somewhere in South Asia, or with 250 anonymous men, kneeling, shackled in their orange jumpsuits, in the sweltering heat of Guantanamo Bay. For those images, we can substitute Neda, the young woman killed by an unknown sniper on a Tehran street; her portrait, a smiling face with fashionably plucked eyebrows and framed by a headscarf, looks out at us from internet sites memorializing her worldwide.

The hundreds of thousands who have turned out in Tehran, demanding democracy, have cracked wide open a dangerous image operating in the Western mind of the world's billion-plus Muslims as monolithic. Instead, they create a mosaic portrait of individuals, thus rendering the world a much more rich and complicated place than it previously seemed to so many--a place of possibilities, where it is no longer so easy to speak of a righteous "us" always preparing for battle against an implacable "them."

By Gustav Niebuhr  |  June 26, 2009; 9:57 AM ET
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Farnaz:

I, and many others, have written numerous times that the atrocities against Jews started at the end of 14th century in Europe. Their properties stolen, they were forced to convert or leave and many were killed. This, to condemn those hienous crimes against Jews, i.e., against humanity.

Uri Avnery, the Israeli peace activist and a former member of the Knesset, wrote in his piece in Sept. 2006 that it was Muslims who gave shelter to Jews and provided them protection.

My previous post was to emphasize that ordinary people of any religion generally do not make decisions. It is the elites.

I have also read that some honorable Jewish writers accept that the Israelis encouraged Jews of the Arab countries to migrate to Israel to populate "Jewish Homeland." Don't ask me for the references because this is based on casual reading and memory. You should know better because you seem to specialize in this area.

You refrain from condemning the Human Rights violations of the Palestinian people. Why?

Posted by: zebra4 | July 2, 2009 10:48 AM
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And, frankly, this figure of one million is nonsense. Since the expulsions, deportations, etc, began we are talking upwards of three million.
When do we get to go home? When will my daughter see Tehran?

Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | July 2, 2009 8:43 AM
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And when some scum bag comes along and writes that Muslims are monsters, I have no hesitation in telling him or her, "GET LOST."
==============================
And when UKBA posts a rant, what do you tell him?
I did not call him a "Scum bag," never have. Should I?

As for you, denying the truth of the displacement of more than one million Jews from ME countries--is that consistent with your religious beliefs? Obviously, I"m not a racist, but I don't have my head in the sand either.

Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | July 2, 2009 8:40 AM
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Correction to previous posting: should have written
"outside of ISRAEL."

Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | July 2, 2009 8:35 AM
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I watched Michael Woods documentary on medieval India on PBS.

There were a total of 8 dynasties in India that are labeled as "Muslim dynasties". But were they all about Islam or were they about successive generations of military elites who got in power by military means by fighting each other (all Muslims)?

When the first Mughal, Babar came with his army more than 4 centuries ago, the Lodi dynasty (Muslim) was already in power. Babar defeated Lodi and established the Mughal Empire which lasted for 4 centuries.

Islam was spread in India by Sufis, century after century through demonstration of values of equality. The Kings just happened to be Muslims. They went there to gain power. Once in power they lived lives of luxury. The bulk of the population lived in poverty.

So, when people talk of Jews in the Middle East and how they migrated to Israel, do they think the poor (Muslim) farmer of Egypt or Tunisia had anything to do with it?

It is all about elites. The history of the world is the history of the elites (rulers).

I served my country-- the U.S.,-- faithfully for more than three decades. And when some scum bag comes along and writes that Muslims are monsters, I have no hesitation in telling him or her, "GET LOST."

Posted by: zebra4 | July 2, 2009 8:35 AM
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I don't see any anti-Islamic posts on this thread; what I do see are links to facts about links on Tunisian Jews, Egyptian Jews, and the plight of ME Christians outside of Egypt.

I also see an antisemitic screed.

Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | July 2, 2009 8:33 AM
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Some posters try to demonize Muslims as if world's 1.4 billions are monolithic, they don't go to work, they don't have to put the food on the table and provide shelter to their families, they don't breathe, they have huge nails, they have frightening faces, they have very big ears, very big eyes and they look like monsters.

And of course, the bigoted posters are equivalent of Little Red Riding Hoods.

Posted by: zebra4 | July 2, 2009 7:29 AM
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Having effectively cleansed Egypt of its Jewish population, Egypt has turned its attention to Christians.

At the link below, you will read an open letter to President Obama requesting his help on behalf of the Christians of the Middle East (outside Israel, that is).

Their situation is beginning to resemble that of Middle Eastern Jews and the Bahai in Iran.

http://www.copts.com/english1/index.php/2009/06/22/aclj-calls-on-president-obama-to-address-religious-persecution-of-christians-in-middle-east/

Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | July 1, 2009 6:30 PM
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How, you may ask, were Egyptian Jews ethnically cleansed from Egypt?

The brief account at the link below states that thirty widows remain. Best current estimates place the number from four (4) to zero (0).

http://www.justiceforjews.com/egypt.html

Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | July 1, 2009 6:25 PM
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How, you may ask, does an ancient Jewish population of one hundred thousand diminish to under fifteen hundred?

Read here for the case of Tunisia, and its historic creation of refugees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Tunisia

Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | July 1, 2009 6:07 PM
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What happened to the Jews in Tunisia (as per the previous Wikipedia reference):

(most went to Israel)

to wit:

Tunisia was the only Arab country to come under direct Nazi occupation during World War II; Morocco and Algeria were governed by Vichy France. When the Nazis arrived in Tunisia in November, 1942, the nation was home to some 100,000 Jews. According to Yad Vashem, the Nazis imposed anti-Semitic policies including forcing Jews to wear Star of David badges, fines, and confiscation of property. More than 5,000 Jews were sent to forced labor camps, where 46 are known to have died, see Jews outside Europe under Nazi occupation; an additional 160 Tunisian Jews in France were sent to European death camps. Tunisia, however, was home to Khaled Abdelwahhab, the first Arab nominated for the Israeli Righteous Among the Nations award.

After independence in the 1950s, Tunisia's Jewish Community Council was abolished by the government and many Jewish areas and buildings were destroyed for "urban renewal."

By 1967, the country's Jewish population was fleeing, over 40,000 had left for Israel, leaving 20,000. During the Six-Day War, Jews were attacked in riots, and, despite government apologies, 7,000 Jews immigrated to France.

In 1985, Yasser Arafat's offices in Tunis were bombed by the Israeli Air Force in retaliation for the murder of three Israelis in Cyprus, an attack that killed over 70 people and leveled the entire PLO complex.

The Lag Ba'Omer procession returning to the El Ghriba synagogue in Er-Riadh (Hara Sghira), Djerba 2007As of 2004 the Jewish community in Tunis supports three primary schools, two secondary schools, a yeshiva, and the Chief Rabbi. The Jewish community in Djerba supports one kindergarten, two primary schools, two secondary schools, a yeshiva, and a Rabbi. There is also a Jewish primary school and synagogue in the coastal city of Zarzis. The Jewish community also supports two homes for the aged, several kosher restaurants and four other rabbis. Most Tunisian Jews observe the laws of kashrut.

The most famous synagogue in Tunisia is the El Ghriba synagogue in the village of Hara Sghira on Djerba. The current building was constructed in late 19th or early 20th century, but the site is believed to have had a synagogue on it for the past 1,900 years. Tunisian Jews have for centuries made an annual pilgrimage to the synagogue on Lag Ba'Omer. On April 11, 2002, a truck full of explosives was detonated close to the synagogue, killing 21 people (of whom 14 were German tourists and 2 Frenchmen), and wounding over 30, in the Ghriba Synagogue Attack. Al Qaeda claimed responsibility.

Chief Rabbi Chaim Madar was the chief rabbi of Tunisia's Jewish Community, a community dating back to 586 BCE. He was the spiritual leader of this community until his death in 3 December 2004. His funeral services were held at the Beit Mordekhai Synagogue in La Goulette, Tunis, and the El Ghriba synagogue on the island of Djerba.[3][4]["

Posted by: ccnl1 | July 1, 2009 5:48 PM
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From Frontline: Ezra Nawi has long been a leading figure in the joint Palestinian-Israeli non-violent struggle for equality and justice in the region. He has been engaged in human rights and humanitarian work in the South Hebron Hills for many years, helping Palestinian farmers to access their lands (where they have been denied access by settlers and the military in a violent way), and working against home demolitions in the area.

On 19 March 2009, the trial of Ezra Nawi for allegedly assaulting a border police officer was adjourned until the 1st of July 2009.

On 22 July 2007, Ezra Nawi was with a family in the village of Umm al-Her, attempting to stop the destruction of the family’s home. The border police tore through the wall of the shack, evacuated the family by force and then destroyed the remains of their home with a bulldozer.

Ezra Nawi was handcuffed and arrested. The entire event was filmed on You Tube, apart for 15 seconds when the action moved away from the camera. The police claim that during those 15 seconds, Ezra Nawi assaulted a border police officer with a punch to the face. In court, the judge has said that in a case where there are no independent witnesses, the testimony of two police officers is more credible than that of one human rights defender.

The video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysIaQUJWBdk

Posted by: ukba | July 1, 2009 8:59 AM
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How, you may ask, does an ancient Jewish population of one hundred thousand diminish to under fifteen hundred?

Read here for the case of Tunisia, and its historic creation of refugees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Tunisia

Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | July 1, 2009 12:49 AM
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As per recent reference- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Tunisia


"Tunisia was the only Arab country to come under direct Nazi occupation during World War II; Morocco and Algeria were governed by Vichy France. When the Nazis arrived in Tunisia in November, 1942, the nation was home to some 100,000 Jews. According to Yad Vashem, the Nazis imposed anti-Semitic policies including forcing Jews to wear Star of David badges, fines, and confiscation of property. More than 5,000 Jews were sent to forced labor camps, where 46 are known to have died, see Jews outside Europe under Nazi occupation; an additional 160 Tunisian Jews in France were sent to European death camps. Tunisia, however, was home to Khaled Abdelwahhab, the first Arab nominated for the Israeli Righteous Among the Nations award.

After independence in the 1950s, Tunisia's Jewish Community Council was abolished by the government and many Jewish areas and buildings were destroyed for "urban renewal."

By 1967, the country's Jewish population was fleeing, over 40,000 had left for Israel, leaving 20,000. During the Six-Day War, Jews were attacked in riots, and, despite government apologies, 7,000 Jews immigrated to France.

In 1985, Yasser Arafat's offices in Tunis were bombed by the Israeli Air Force in retaliation for the murder of three Israelis in Cyprus, an attack that killed over 70 people and leveled the entire PLO complex.

The Lag Ba'Omer procession returning to the El Ghriba synagogue in Er-Riadh (Hara Sghira), Djerba 2007As of 2004 the Jewish community in Tunis supports three primary schools, two secondary schools, a yeshiva, and the Chief Rabbi. The Jewish community in Djerba supports one kindergarten, two primary schools, two secondary schools, a yeshiva, and a Rabbi. There is also a Jewish primary school and synagogue in the coastal city of Zarzis. The Jewish community also supports two homes for the aged, several kosher restaurants and four other rabbis. Most Tunisian Jews observe the laws of kashrut.

The most famous synagogue in Tunisia is the El Ghriba synagogue in the village of Hara Sghira on Djerba. The current building was constructed in late 19th or early 20th century, but the site is believed to have had a synagogue on it for the past 1,900 years. Tunisian Jews have for centuries made an annual pilgrimage to the synagogue on Lag Ba'Omer. On April 11, 2002, a truck full of explosives was detonated close to the synagogue, killing 21 people (of whom 14 were German tourists and 2 Frenchmen), and wounding over 30, in the Ghriba Synagogue Attack. Al Qaeda claimed responsibility.

Chief Rabbi Chaim Madar was the chief rabbi of Tunisia's Jewish Community, a community dating back to 586 BCE. He was the spiritual leader of this community until his death in 3 December 2004. His funeral services were held at the Beit Mordekhai Synagogue in La Goulette, Tunis, and the El Ghriba synagogue on the island of Djerba.[3][4]["

Posted by: ccnl1 | June 30, 2009 8:44 PM
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How, you may ask, does an ancient Jewish population of one hundred thousand diminish to under fifteen hundred?

Read here for the case of Tunisia, and its historic creation of refugees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Tunisia

Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | June 30, 2009 2:41 PM
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Tomorrow also is the day when Mr. Ezra Nawi is going to be sentenced for his bravery and sense of decency:

Israel's Man of Conscience by Ezra Nawi.
My name is Ezra Nawi. I am a Jewish citizen of Israel. I will be sentenced on the first of July after being found guilty of assaulting two police officers in 2007 while struggling against the demolition of a Palestinian house in Um El Hir, located in the southern part of the West Bank.

Of course the policemen who accused me of assaulting them are lying. Indeed, lying has become common within the Israeli police force, military and among the Jewish settlers.

After close to 140,000 letters were sent to Israeli officials in support of my activities in the occupied West Bank, the Ministry of Justice responded that I "provoke local residents."

This response reflects the culture of deceit that has taken over all official discourse relating to the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

After all, was I the one who poisoned and destroyed Palestinian water wells? Was I the one who beat young Palestinian children? Did I hit the elderly? Did I poison the Palestinian residents' sheep? Did I demolish homes and destroy tractors? Did I block roads and restrict movement? Was I the one who prevented people from connecting their homes to running water and electricity? Did I forbid Palestinians from building homes?

Over the past eight years, I have seen with my own two eyes hundreds of abuses such as these and exposed them to the public--therefore I am considered a provocateur. I can only say that I am proud to be a provoker.

Because I am a provoker, the police together with their allies have threatened me, beaten me and arrested me on numerous occasions. And when I continued to "provoke" them, they did not hesitate to out me as a gay man; indeed, they spread rumors among the Palestinians with whom I work that I have AIDS.

One of the reasons I have been singled out has to do with who I am. It is difficult to explain, but as a Mizrahi Jew (descended from Jewish communities in the Arab and Muslim world), a gay man and a plumber, I do not belong to the elite of Israeli society and do not fit the stereotype of the Israeli peacenik--namely, an intellectual Jew of Ashkenazi decent. Actually, the police officers who constantly arrest me and I are part of the same social strata. I was programmed like them, have a similar accent, know their jargon and our historical background is comparable. And yet, in their eyes I am on and for the other side, the Palestinian side.

Posted by: ukba | June 30, 2009 1:53 PM
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Continued...
This simple fact seems to disturb them so much that they have to vilify me; that is the only way their worldview will continue making sense. I threaten them precisely because I undermine the categories and stereotypes through which they understand the world.

But the policemen are only actors on this stage. The military, civil administration and the judicial system are all working with the police, and all of them together follow the commands of their masters, the Jewish settlers.

This unholy alliance is extremely dangerous, because for them the end--gaining full control of the Land of Israel--justifies the means. In order to advance this end they dehumanize the Palestinians; and because the Palestinians in their eyes are not human, everything is permitted. They can steal their land, demolish their homes, steal their water, imprison them for no reason and at times even kill them. In Hebrew we say damam mutar, taking their blood is permissible.

It is important to keep in mind, however, that the evil I confront every day in the West Bank could not have been carried out without the Israeli court system. Judge Eilata Ziskind not only mistakenly found me guilty but she instructed the court to invite a translator for the sentencing, as if I do not speak Hebrew; in her mind I, a Mizrahi Jew, am a Palestinian Arab--and Arabs are, almost by definition, guilty. My case is merely part of a pattern. All the crimes committed by the state and its proxies in the territories over the past four decades were made kosher by the Israeli courts. Therefore, the courts are just as much to blame for the ongoing cruelty.

Because I am a provoker the state subjects me to continuing harassment, and yet I have remained persistent. What strengthens me and gives me energy is the widespread and constant support I have always received from political allies. When I was beaten by settlers, when my car was stolen, when I was arrested, I never felt alone. I know that thousands of people, both in Israel and abroad, support what we in Ta'ayush (Jewish-Arab Partnership) are doing against the occupation.

"Ezra" in Hebrew means help, and I know that in times of trouble I can rely on my friends for help.

Posted by: ukba | June 30, 2009 1:52 PM
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Most Muslim haters will not think it out that far. I can only assume that in their mind, these are two unrelated and different things ... Iranians (including some Imams) protesting a farcicle election and the image of Islamic people as angry theocratic zealots hell-bent on the destruction of freedoms and rights around the world.

If only most people faced the inconsistencies in their belief systems and emotional reactions, I dare say many would reevaluate some positions. I beleive that (as the first post shows) many just find it easier just to hate anyone, anything, and any belief that is different from them.

Sad to say but I believe many people justify their thoughts by thinking if, by chance, our "enemies" do something that reflects their humanity and desire for freedom, well ... it is just an anomoly.

Posted by: crw901025 | June 30, 2009 1:42 PM
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In the meantime, in the news is what the other ally is doing:
Israel Attack Justice Boat; Kidnaps Human Rights Worksers; Confiscates Medicine, Toys and Olive Trees
ISR CONFISCATES MEDICINE, TOYS AND OLIVE TREES

23 miles off the coast of Gaza - June 30 - Today Israeli Occupation Forces attacked and boarded the Free Gaza Movement boat, the SPIRIT OF HUMANITY, abducting 21 human rights workers from 11 countries, including Noble laureate Mairead Maguire and former U.S. Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney (see below for a complete list of passengers). The passengers and crew are being forcibly dragged toward Israel.

"This is an outrageous violation of international law against us. Our boat was not in Israeli waters, and we were on a human rights mission to the Gaza Strip," said Cynthia McKinney, a former U.S. Congresswoman and presidential candidate. "President Obama just told Israel to let in humanitarian and reconstruction supplies, and that's exactly what we tried to do. We're asking the international community to demand our release so we can resume our journey."

According to an International Committee of the Red Cross report released yesterday, the Palestinians living in Gaza are "trapped in despair." Thousands of Gazans whose homes were destroyed earlier during Israel's December/January massacre are still without shelter despite pledges of almost $4.5 billion in aid, because Israel refuses to allow cement and other building material into the Gaza Strip. The report also notes that hospitals are struggling to meet the needs of their patients due to Israel's disruption of medical supplies.

"The aid we were carrying is a symbol of hope for the people of Gaza, hope that the sea route would open for them, and they would be able to transport their own materials to begin to reconstruct the schools, hospitals and thousands of homes destroyed during the onslaught of "Cast Lead". Our mission is a gesture to the people of Gaza that we stand by them and that they are not alone" said fellow passenger Mairead Maguire, winner of a Noble Peace Prize for her work in Northern Ireland.

Just before being kidnapped by Israel, Huwaida Arraf, Free Gaza Movement chairperson and delegation co-coordinator on this voyage, stated that: "No one could possibly believe that our small boat constitutes any sort of threat to Israel. We carry medical and reconstruction supplies, and children's toys. Our passengers include a Nobel peace prize laureate and a former U.S. congressperson. Our boat was searched and received a security clearance by Cypriot Port Authorities before we departed, and at no time did we ever approach Israeli waters."

Arraf continued, "Israel's deliberate and premeditated attack on our unarmed boat is a clear violation of international law and we demand our immediate and unconditional

Posted by: ukba | June 30, 2009 1:22 PM
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When the Iranians start burning their burqas and running their imams out of town, then there will be a cause for celebration. Until then, anyone following the dictates of the koran are not to be trusted.

Posted by: ccnl1 | June 30, 2009 3:47 AM
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Was Iran's Election Stolen?

By Mark Weisbrot
co-director, Center for Economic and Policy Research

Since the Iranian presidential election of June 12, allegations that the announced winner Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's victory was stolen have played an important role in the demonstrations, political conflict, and media reporting on events there. Some say it does not matter whether the elections were stolen because the government has responded to peaceful protests with violence and arrests. These actions are indeed abhorrent and inexcusable, and the world's outrage is justified. So, too, is the widespread concern for the civil liberties of Iranians who have chosen to exercise their rights to peacefully protest.

At the same time, the issue of whether the election was stolen will remain relevant, both to our understanding of the situation and to U.S.-Iranian relations, for reasons explained below. It is therefore worth looking at whether this allegation is plausible.

According to the official election results, the incumbent president Ahmadinejad won the election by a margin of 63 percent to 34 percent for his main competitor, Mir Hossein Mousavi. This is a difference of approximately 11.3 million votes. Any claim of victory for Mousavi must therefore contain some logically coherent story of how at least 5.65 million votes (one half of the 11.3 million margin) might have been stolen.

Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | June 30, 2009 12:51 AM
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continued
This implies looking at the electoral procedures. There were approximately 45,000 polling locations with ballot boxes, not including mobile units. If these ballot boxes were collected by a central authority and taken away to a central location, and counted (or not counted) behind closed doors, this would be consistent with an allegation of massive vote theft.

However, this does not appear to be the case. After searching through thousands of news articles without finding any substantive information on the electoral process, I contacted Seyed Mohammad Marandi, who heads the North American Studies department at the University of Tehran. He described the electoral procedures to me, and together we interviewed, by phone, Sayed Moujtaba Davoodi, a poll worker who participated in the June 12 election in region 13 (of 22 regions) in Tehran. Mr. Daboodi has worked in elections for the past 16 years. The following is from their description of the procedures.

According to their account, there are 14 people working at each polling place, in addition to an observer representing each candidate. Most polling places are schools or mosques; if the polling place is a school then the team of 14 people would include teachers. There are 2-4 representatives of the Guardian Council, and 2 from the local police. After the last votes are cast, the ballots are counted in the presence of the 14 people plus the candidates' representatives. All of them sign five documents that contain the vote totals. One of the documents goes into the ballot box; one stays with the leader of the local election team; and the others go to other levels of the electoral administration, including the Guardian Council and the Interior.

The vote totals are then sent to a local center that also has representatives of the Guardian Council, Interior, and the candidates. They add up the figures from a number of ballot boxes, and then send them to Interior. In this election, the numbers were also sent directly to Interior from the individual polling places, in the presence of the 14-18 witnesses at the ballot box.

Each voter presents identification, and his or her name and information is entered into a computer, and also recorded in writing. The voter's thumbprint is also put on the stub of the ballot. The voter's identification is stamped to prevent multiple voting at different voting places, and there is also a computer and written record of everyone who voted at each polling place.

Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | June 30, 2009 12:50 AM
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continued
If this information is near accurate, it would appear that large scale fraud is extremely difficult, if not impossible, without creating an extensive trail of evidence. Indeed, if this election was stolen, there must be tens of thousands of witnesses -- or perhaps hundreds of thousands - to the theft. Yet there are no media accounts of interviews with such witnesses.

Is it possible that, in most of the country, the procedures outlined above - followed in previous elections - were abruptly abandoned, with ballot boxes whisked away before anyone could count them at the precinct level? Again, many of the more than 700,000 people involved in the electoral process would have been witnesses to such a large-scale event. Given the courage that hundreds of thousands of people have demonstrated in taking to the streets, we would expect at least some to come forward with information on what happened.

Rostam Pourzal, an Iranian-American human rights campaigner, told me that it is common knowledge in Iran that these are the election procedures and that they were generally followed in this election. Professor Marandi concurred, and added: "There's just no way that any large-scale or systematic fraud could have taken place."

The government has agreed to post the individual ballot box totals on the web. This would provide another opportunity for any of the hundreds of thousands of witnesses to the precinct-level vote count to say that they witnessed a different count, if any did so.

A number of other arguments have been put forward that the vote must have been rigged. Most of them have been refuted. For example, the idea that the results were announced too quickly: How long does it take to count 500-800 ballots at a polling place, with only the presidential candidates on the ballot? It could easily be done within the time that it took, as it was in 2005.

Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | June 30, 2009 12:49 AM
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continued
The New York Times' front page story on Tuesday, June 23 begins with this sentence: "Iran's most powerful oversight council announced on Monday that the number of votes recorded in 50 cities exceeded the number of eligible voters there by three million, further tarnishing a presidential election . . ." This was widely interpreted as the government admitting to some three million fraudulent votes.

Here is the Guardian Council's statement: "Candidates campaigns have said that in 80-170 towns and cities, more people have voted than are eligible voters. We have determined, based on preliminary studies, that there are only about 50 such cities or towns. . . . The total number of votes in these cities or towns is something close to three million; therefore, even if we were to throw away all of these votes, it would not change the result."

Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | June 30, 2009 12:46 AM
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continued
The letter from the Guardian Council also offers a number of reasons that a city or town can have a vote total that exceeds the number of eligible voters: some towns are weekend or vacation destinations, some voters are commuters, some districts are not demographically distinct entities, and Iranians can vote wherever they want (unlike in the United States, where they must vote at their local polling place). On the face of it, this does not appear implausible. Contrary to press reports, there is no admission from the Iranian government that any of these votes were fraudulent, nor has evidence of such fraud been made public.

The only independent poll we have, from the New America Foundation and conducted three weeks before the election, predicts the result that occurred. And a number of experts have presented plausible explanations for why Ahmadinejad could have won by a large margin.

Does it matter if the election was stolen? Certainly there are grounds for challenging the overall legitimacy of the electoral process, in which the government determines which candidates can compete, and the press and other institutions are constrained.

But from the point of view of promoting more normal relations between the United States and Iran, avoiding a military conflict, and bringing stability to the region, the truth as to the more narrow question of whether the election was procedurally fraudulent may be relevant. If in fact the election was not stolen, and Washington (and Europe) pretend that it was, this can contribute to a worsening of relations. It will give further ammunition to hard-liners in Iran, who are portraying the whole uprising as a conspiracy organized by the West. (It doesn't help that the Obama administration hasn't announced an end to the covert operations that the Bush administration was carrying out within Iran).

More importantly, it will boost hardliners here - including some in the Obama administration - who want to de-legitimize the government of Iran in order to avoid serious negotiations over its nuclear program. That is something that we should avoid, because a failure to seriously pursue negotiations now may lead to war in the future.

Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | June 30, 2009 12:44 AM
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When the Iranians start burning their korans,then there will be a cause for celebration. Until then, anyone following the dictates of said book are not to be trusted.

Posted by: ccnl1 | June 30, 2009 12:05 AM
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Let us not forget that at one time Persia was a superpower, one of two that dominated the ancient civilized world. Persia had a long and glorious history. Its light dimmed only after it was overtaken by the Arabs of Hijaz. Years of wars with the Greeks and Romans had weakened it to the point that primitive desert tribes were able to subdue it. Even after Persia was dominated by Islam and incorporated within the Abbaside Arab Caliphate most of the Caliphate scientists, theologians, physicians, astronomers and mathematicians were Persians. As an example, Omar Khayyam was a poet, chemist, engineer and philosopher who wrote in Arabic except for his poetry which was written in Farsi. Most of the Iranians I know are proud of their heritage and try to distance themselves from the Arabs.

Posted by: abhab | June 29, 2009 9:41 PM
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Beautiful - Here are Iranian Muslims enjoying themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06Mi9veYF-g

LET THEM CONTINUE THEIR LIVES - PLEASE PROTECT IRAN

Thankyou

Mark Tina Kieron Kirsty

Posted by: coiaorguk | June 29, 2009 9:19 PM
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THANK YOU.

Posted by: decentdust | June 27, 2009 4:44 PM
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