It's a Southern Thing

continued
...seeking to preserve a kind of honorable national faithiness, replete with visits to the Vatican, etc.

@Farnaz1Mansouri1--Niebuhr is a third generation Protestant theologian (not a Northeastern Jew). His granduncle was one of the most famous popular intellectuals of the mid-20th century, an evangelical and a liberal.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No kidding on all counts (duh), although I would say that Reinhold Niebuhr had (and has) more than popularity to recommend him. Frankly, I see nothing in your posting that I haven't taken into account.

Let me, then, take it all a bit further. I believe that much of the religious "enthusiasm" of the South is compensatory, that the South has not economically recovered from slavery and Reconstruction, that the Sanford event, is symptomatic of this. I also think that the endless reports of the national media have a dual agenda. IN characturing the South, the legitimize the faithfulness of the current president

WashingtonPost31 wrote:

"Governor Sanford says he is *trying* to fall in love with is wife again. What the heck is that?"

It's the standard twisted conservative Republican reaction to inconvenient sexual and romantic longings. The sufferer must simply TRY... REALLY... HARD... to feel something different, something that will gain them worldly and social approval. GRUUUUNNNT!! Not happening yet? Well, try harder.

They pull this nonsense all the time on gays. And no, it has never worked in the history of human feelings. Yet they still cling to the delusion that it will.

It's got nothing to do with the Mason Dixon line....It has everything to do with Godless Communism

The "dictatorship of the proletariat" or workers' state is a term employed by Marxists that refers to what they see as a temporary state between the capitalist society and the classless, stateless and moneyless communist society. During this transition period, "the state can be nothing but the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat."[1] The term does not refer to a concentration of power by a dictator, but to a situation where the proletariat (the working class) would hold power and replace the current political, economic and social system controlled by the bourgeoisie (the propertied class). In short, the "dictatorship of the proletariat" would replace the current "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie"; the crucial distinction being that while the bourgeoisie is by definition a minority, the proletariat is, similarly, always the majority. Many Marxists refer to this transitional stage as socialism or "workers' democracy".

The real irony with republican governor Mark Sanford's impending fate is this - his last Tango will be in Columbia, rather than Argentina - and certainly not Paris.

Billy, "No Self-Control" Clinton did not have to say anything. His spinmeisters did that for him. All during his impeachment proceedings there was this undercurrent of "Do not judge, lest you be judged" and "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

And we all wonder now how Billy Boy goes about his "desk days" in his post-presidency.

I fail to see any hypocrisy in Governor Sanford's invoking religion in his mea culpa address to the media. Had you been a fly on the wall you would undoubtedly have heard OH GOD! uttered more than a few times in that apartment.

note to all posters:
LEAVE CLINTON OUT OF THIS.

he never moralized, never claimed he was above you religously, morally, or IMBUED WITH HIGHER FAMILY VALUES!

so help me, some of you are so dense you don't know the meaning of HYPOCRISY!
particularly the abundant republican hypocrisy which has permeated our political climate the last 16 years.

you don't know it when you see it.

@Farnaz1Mansouri1--Niebuhr is a third generation Protestant theologian (not a Northeastern Jew). His granduncle was one of the most famous popular intellectuals of the mid-20th century, an evangelical and a liberal.

In the South, there's a small nonprofit sector, but big churches which often make only the most token gestures of chraity. Churches are a willing instrument of the feudalism of the South, providing a status marker and a way to be "better" than your neighbors regardless of of how much one actually thinks about religion beyond a Sunday service. Even in relatively conservative parts of the Midwest, one rarely hears the religious talk that one hears in the South. The South bears many crosses, but one is the failure to reconcile its religiosity with all of the behavior that violates the dominant Christianist doctrines--porn, divorce, teen pregnancy, and the like. People like Sanford can give us a good morality play, but not much in the way of real moral example.

This story and half the comments clearly show the disconnect between the east and west coast and the rest of the country. If the "enlightened" of American ever traveled and engaged with the rest of America you might find out that Jesus Christ and God are not merely precursors to a curse word but are part of peoples lives and daily conversation. I find it amazing that "enlightened" and intellectually strong people are simply incapable of appreciating a christian nations viewpoint. In MOST places in America people talk this way everyday. The enlightened only see us when the cameras role because we don't vacation in the same spots as you or live in the same places as you. It scares them more than anything--to believe that something in your world is more powerful than man--while MOST of America accepts that fact openly. Christians sin, we all do. Admiting your mistakes for public offenses in public is a biblical teaching for most religions that follow Jesus Christ. How sad that my enlightened and well educated neighbors have read and seem to understand every book written...except the biggest selling book of all time..the Bible. Despite my great world class education this observation will remind me that knowledge and knowing are two different things.

Religion in the South is such a big part of people life, that it overpower what being a Christian really is. There are so many religious "Leaders" in the south that try to instill doing "go" on earth in order to get into heaven, but that they have openly showed how humans really are. Southern Men (white & black) have always used the "bible" as their defense for everything they have done; fathering children's with other women, having affairs in the name of "this is what God desire". Now, I know the entire USA have sinners everywhere, but those southern people, will sin, and make you believe it was done under "God divine order"

Gustav Niebuhr's article is obviously biased. It appears that his writing is done with some malice towards Christians. It's just another Christian bashing article; nothing new. Washington Post should be ashamed!

Those Southern "preachers" are the biggest offenders of all.... preaching the bible to millions of us while they sin!

I know we are all sinners, but when Rev. Pat Robertson goes on live tv, preaching abstinence before marriage, and a caller makes a live call asking him how he could preach abstinence when Robertston had HIS wife four months pregnant when they got married.

Then there was Rev. Haggard, Rev. Jimmy Swaggart, Rev. Jim Bakker, frolicking with mistresses or prostitutes, sins of the flesh. Other "Reverends" cleaned out the bank accounts of their ministries!

As for Mark Sanford, he will end up without either Jenny, OR Maria, his mistress. WHO would want a "soul mate" who stood before the world and confessed his sins and made an utter fool of himself AND his mistress? Well.... on second thought, maybe Maria would...... depending on Sanford's bank account!

A "southern thing"?? What a strange non sequitur. It's obviously a Christian thing.

Why must WAPO add such MORONIC comment to its website???

I think one has to understand some dynamics of the psychology of the typical southern baptist "mind", in order to answer this question. In the S.B. "ethic" everything hinges on the individual's esteem relative to their peer group. There is, in fact, no such condition as a "principle" or rule, independent of the peer group's perception. Thus "it" (whatever sin "it" may be) does not become "sin" unless or until you're caught or discovered doing "it" by the peers. And in fact, "God" (or his will) actually has very little to do with "it". And as a concomitant result, any concerns regarding direct damage or hurt caused to another person is also a very minimal consideration. To say that these people are largely excused by their "ethic" from a requirement for an individually based conscience regarding their actions is quite accurate. Also to say that they are closely aligned with the characteristics of the classic social psychopath is also quite accurate.

It is a no brainer.

American politicians have made it a standard ploy to mention god when they get caught in extra-marital affairs for the simple reason that it works; it works because a large number of people believe in the claptrap about sin and forgiveness.

Odd that their faith in god does not prevent them from marital infidelity. But as soon as they get exposed they put on a mask of humility. It is an act to keep what they have -- power, money, influence.

The Sanford case is unusual in the sense that he has admitted it was more than a few sexual encounters. Such things happen. Mrs Sanford had the good taste not to appear at his side for the customary dog and pony show.

CCNL1 is correct.

Let us say it all for Gov. Sanford, who, according to WaPo had now confessed to several previous adulterous liaisons:

Mark 9:38-50

John said to him, "Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us." But Jesus said, "Do not stop him; for no one who does a deed of power in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. Whoever is not against us is for us. For truly I tell you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of Christ will by no means lose the reward.

"If any of you put a stumbling block before one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for you if a great millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea. If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than to have two hands and to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame than to have two feet and to be thrown into hell.
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Hopefully, someone near the Gov. is casting out demons. And then footless and handless will Sanford go. Alternatively, he could hang around, just concern himself with the secularly decent thing to do and resign. In this way, we would be spared these endless reports of his Biblical breast-beating.

I cannot see slamming the East Coast of the South about their "God Thing". When I watch the Academy Awards or any TV award show..I get so tired of seeing all the Jews, Blacks, Whites..Saying " Thank you God"

Cheating politicians like Billy "No Self-Control" Clinton love NT passages like "Do not judge lest thy be judged". On the other hand, they never mention:

"If any of you put a stumbling block before one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for you if a great millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea. "

First a comment about the person who thinks Jenny Sanford is a cold, unfeeling woman which gives her husband, Gov. Mark Sanford every right to seek sex elsewhere. I think it is pretty much a given that if your husband says he wants you to take him back while he is publicly declaring his love for another woman and revealing way too much information, you would have a cold, frosty, tight lipped look also. And for the dumb question posed suggesting only southern people evoke God when they admit adultery, the writer of this article is obviously not of the Christian faith. If he were, he would know that one of the Ten Commandments in the bible is " Thou shalt not commit adultery". I think it would be safe to say that referencing God, when confessing adultery is not a southern admission but one that all Christians around the world would mention.

Governor Sanford says he is *trying* to fall in love with is wife again. What the heck is that? That is the cruelest thing you could say to your spouse. Just rotten to the core. He is an infant emotionally and his religious compass is stuck on south -- literally.

At least the Roman church, for all its sins, requires penance before forgiveness. It can be an easy recitation of the Rosary but sometimes a good priest will demand a really hard penance. Jews and Muslims also demand penance and/or reparation for evil done. Only evangelicals get away with murder: just say Jesus is your personal saviour and anything goes. Woe ye Scribes and Pharisees!

Apparently our political/religious idiot savant Spidermean approves of military takeovers as a method of changing duly elected government administrations.

Why am I not surprised??

Hey Spidermean, do you know what happens when you put salt in the earth? Nothing will grow anymore. It is not just these politicians who are Christian hypocrites. The prisons are full of "Good Christians". The people who drive like maniacs and endanger the lives of others are largely Christians. The people who call them selves pro-life and seek to execute people are Christians. Here is what Christianity has brought us:The Crusades, The Inquisition, the KKK, the Mafia and pedophiles in places of trust. I want no part of that and Jesus wouldn't either.

Here's a novel idea - DON'T commit adultery and you won't have to "act" penitent. It amazing how people of this ilk, always are the most pugnacious about chastisements, before they get caught and then expect everyone to "understand" when they've "fallen".

The original article and many of the comments seem confirm O'Conner's opinion when she said: "anything that comes out of the South is going to be called grotesque by the northern reader, unless it is grotesque, in which case it is going to be called realistic."
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Neat! But, she also saw in the grotesque a vehicle for her Catholic vision. Truly, for her, all these adulterers' Bible belting would have been manna from Apollo.

Our Northern adulterers are grotesque of course in their own way. Giuliani, Spitzer, Governor Paterson, to name our New York philanderers, but they tend to keep Scriptures out of the aftermath.

The South is not the only area of the country, that God is used in the same sentence for their personnal problems. Politicans, Jessie Jackson, Preachers, killers,Spritzer and other criminal elements have always used God's name when they wanted a lighter sentence or forgiven to obtain votes. It is despicable to use God's name for your actions. Sanford wants everyone to believe that he is a serial lover. Looking at that wimp, women must be desperate. If Jenney wants to be a dormat, then so be it. If the people of South Carolina wants to keep him as governor, then so be it. Keep God's name out of the equation, since he was not advising you in the escapades.

Then again, maybe it's just that northerners are more sensible and not as religiously hypocritical, though there are some exceptions.
But it's no coincidence that this occurs more frequently within the magical thinking Bible Belt.

"Why do so many American politicians -- from Bill Clinton to Mark Sanford -- use religious language when they make public confessions of marital infidelity? Are they truly penitent or just pandering? How can we tell the difference?"
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We could tell the difference if they confessed BEFORE THEY WERE CAUGHT.
And so many politicians use this method because the feeble minded religious sheep allow them to. It's become a cliche PR strategy, nothing more: in the event you get caught, confess the bare minimum (only what's already known), add no further details, get 'religious' counseling (preferably from someone/somewhere famous), and say it was all an unfortunate incident and you just want to put it behind you.

That's the formula.

Huckabees from the South will pimp poor old Jesus for just about any reason convenient for them.

I remember talking to the operations VP of my Texas based company in regard to a disastrous system installation in Colorado. When I mentioned the consultant who hired us was a religious man and things were so bad he was praying about it, the VP said, "I can take advantage of that."

The original article and many of the comments seem confirm O'Conner's opinion when she said: "anything that comes out of the South is going to be called grotesque by the northern reader, unless it is grotesque, in which case it is going to be called realistic."

7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 And once more he bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the eldest, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus looked up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" 11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again."(John 8:7-9) Before we condemn others and judge them, lets look at our lives. For real change to take place in America you need to go back to the values that built that great country. The biggest problem with Americans today is their inability to understand the true value of freedom and all the human rights. I am writing this from Africa, trust me, you are a priveleged nation. And please dont forget that we are human beings,first, and everything else is secondary. You judge someone before he makes a mistake, judge him when he is making a mistake and long after he has made the mistake, Dont you make mistakes yourselves??? Most of you comments about religion just shows that some Americans cant wait for an excuse to justify their not being religious. What a shame?

Evangelical Christianity encourages Pharisaism and sheer deceit.

This is a matter of pure political science. One vestige of reconstruction is weak governorships in many southern states, Arkansas and South Carolina included. So you give these guys the appearance of wealth and power and nothing really to do. Voila! You have the mother of all mid-life crises.

A resent study found that the majority of porn being viewed in this country was from the south. This leads me to believe that most southerners do not really practice what they preach and religion has become nothing more than a political shield. For those that do believe and understand the Bible, God does warn those about faults prophets and those that seek power using is name in vein. Does it ring a loud bell with any political party we know? This is why our founding fathers separated church and state.

which Southern state is Elliot Spitzer from?

It isn't a Southern thing,. . . it's a politican thing. You can't trust a politician as far as you can kick a lemon pie. They all lie,. . . it's one of the pre-requisites of becoming a politician. "Change You Can Believe In," my foot!

Yeah, well, i lived in the south for many years. The first question anyone asks is "what church do you belong to." So, it's the only way these pols know to apologize...and maybe feel repentant.

But please don't include Clinton with Sanford. That's sacriligious!

Yeah, and there's also no racism outside the South... everything and everyone else is perfect.

The original question on the 'front page' to this one read: All used God talk when they confessed. Is it a Southern thing?" THE ANSWER IS YES....

So now being in love with a foreigner is a security threat period? No investigation of the foreigner by our intellenge agencies needed anymore? All foreigners are a threat to our security? And I thought that was Stalinism!

President Zelaya was not dictator in Honduras, not even close. Those who wanted him out are the same (a group of no more than eight elite families) that for more than two Centuries have been in a savage way exploiting the large majority of the people of Honduras, Honduras poor. Those who executed the coup are the same that killed noons and priests that were helping the very poor. And those here in the United States that defend the military of Honduras transforming itself in the Supreme Decider are the same that would like to see the status quo unchanged here also with big oil, the drug companies, the industrial-military complex and the Wall Street greedy bankers telling the US Presidents and the US Congress what MUST be done. Wake up America! A few, less than 10% of the total population of the US, control more than 90% of the total wealth and tell our governments what they MUST do, always to perpetuate the priviledge of those very few. That is not Capitalism... that is modern era Feudalism.

America has spent billions of dollars and lost thousands of lives just to remove a dictator in Iraq. And now Obama is punishing Honduras for removing their dictator.

What kind of mindset is this? Obama is playing the fool's game. This guy should be removed in the White House before he self-dstructs together with America and the world.

Wake up America. There's a fool sitting in the White House.

The reason why America is the greatest nation on earth is because majority of its people follow the values set by the Bible. Politicians who fail to live by on these values are shoved away from their respective offices.

Without these Bible-believing Christians, America will be ruled by fornicators and thieves and ultimately will self-destruct.

The Bible stated that true Christians are the salt of the earth. Without them, the earth could have long been extinct.

Just imagine a country without a Christian. Many liberals have dreamt of this. Imagine...yes..imagine.

North Korea, Cuba, Khmer Rouge's Cambodia... the list goes on. These countries should have been heavenly (communists' eutopia) for the liberals but they turned out as little hells. Why? What happened? Liberals are idiots. Everything they do is self-destructive.

This liberal President Obama will self-destruct America. How in the world would America side with a leftist president in Honduras? Obama's America is out of its mind. I think this person is more dangerous than Bin Ladin.

Wake up America. There's a fool sitting in the White House.

Southern thing?

Say what? I lived in the south for my first 20 years, have lived in "wacko" California for 37 years since . Gov. Sanford's situation has nothing to do with geo-political religiosity.

No, he's in love. And he's lost his mind--poor bastard. Anybody over the age of 13 remember what that feels like?

It's sad to see it played out publicly like this (his brain is currently inoperable, due to the love thang--and he's conditioned to act like a politician), but don't you remember this feeling?

Most of us have felt it--at least once--and it has nothing to do with religion or geography. He's a goner.

"with malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right"
A. Lincoln (South Ill.?)

In this dedication of a Nation we humbly ask the blessing of God. May He protect each and every one of us. May He guide me in the days to come.
F. Roosevelt (South NY?)

With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own.
JFK (South Mass?)

Laws of Nature and of Nature's God ...
that they are endowed by their Creator...
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.
Declaration of Indpendence (all the signers must have been from the South)

Yes, dog backwards spells torture, murder, ambush and theft. I have a summer home in europe with my own personal collection of automobiles and I had never decided to drive to kosovo. lol

The Christian religion is being ridiculed in the US every day. In fact if you read God reverse it becomes Dog and that what it is.

So far this guy hasn't murdered like Clinton did in Kosovo.

Moreover the Bible says: "You will recognize them by their deeds".

Truly American deeds are: torture, murder, ambush and theft. America is God's country?

That makes us laugh hard.

Not sure. A man from west virginia gave me the king james:

"But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come."

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written."

Nobody has mentioned the two biggest problems with Sanford:

1) He was using the taxpayers' money and official State business trips to go schtupp his mistress; and

2) He was thinking about running for President and was schtupping a foreign national. Hello? Security risk much?

It's not the infidelity that's the problem. It's the misuse of state funds and the potential security risk that I have a problem with.

Oh, goody! "Belief in a Supreme Being". So, if someone who is a 30-year-old resident of South Carolina believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or Satan, or Xenu, they can be Governor of that State, too! Just no atheists! Sheesh.

You get the government that you deserve. I used to think that old Willie Don Schafer was senile when he was the Governor of Maryland. But between Sanford, Palin, Jindal, and The Governator, ol' Willie Don is looking pretty good right about now.

Because a lot of that goes without saying, living life vicariously is just not the right idea. We don't need any answers, seven hail mary's and good luck. lol.

Who was the guy that said, "with malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right"? Was he a northern, blue-state lawyer?

I was born and raised in the deep, Deep South. My great grand-father and uncle were heroes who fought with Gen Johnston in the War of Yankee Aggression. While I have fallen away from my Southern Baptist religion, I can still thump the Bible with the best of them, and I'm grateful for it. Religion is also philosophy, and it teaches you to behold the stars and see ourselves as a part of them.

"We are so small between the stars and so large against the sky . . . . With on hand on a pentagram and the other on a girl, I balance on a wishing well that all men call the world." -- Leonard Cohen.

Most of us can relate to those words, but to those who have been raised meditating on the attributes of God, it perhaps has an even more powerful pregnant meaning. Therefore, I believe "God speak" or the "language of Zion" is a good thing, and it does help us to reach deep places in the soul. Personally I would rather send my children to a Moslem school-!!! than the atheistic public schools we have now. Why? Because of the importance of thinking about God and putting mankind in this perspective.

However, this road is not without grave perils. As we have seen modern day Republicans are more responsible for putting folks in jail for crimes against themselves than any other political party. And I am convinced that if we ever went back to the days of burning witches, the movement would begin in the deep Republican South. . . . . . . And in that regard, I am in full agreement with poster EarlC.

Posted by EarlC: . . THE DIFFERENCE? At this juncture in time, the Democrats know that they are sinners. The Republicans condemn any and everything and then forgive each other [ only ] after they get caught. There is a hypocrite component that is weighted heavily on the side of religious Republicans.

Religion is in this instance is a sideshow. Sanford was caught cheating on his wife. How he chooses to rationalize his behavior is beside the point. Sandford's pseudo-theological and muddled psychological excuse for his behavior is disgustingly self serving. He hopes that his religious posturing will disguise his hypocrisy and save his earthly (as opposed to religious) status.

This sort of behavior implies a religious misperception that forgiveness is equal to avoidance of accountability.

His wife, who basically told him to " get lost", has a better grasp of reality and self respect than this pathetic shell of a governor.

Republicans are almost always - 90% of the time the unforgiving hypocrites on the subject of sex scandals. Anyone who denies this is - a lying republican!

G-d has nothing to do with it, an over active libido, or the man met someone and fell in love, thats ok just admit it and go on!

The difference? At this juncture in time, the Democrats know that they are sinners. The Republicans condemn any and everything and then forgive each other after they get caught. There is a hypocrite component that is weighted heavily on the side of religious Republicans.

Check out this article from WaPo's front page. Sanford has publicly confessed or "testified" to a number of extramarital liaisons. Now, what?

Pressure Mounts on South Carolina Governor To Resign

By Philip Rucker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, July 1, 2009; 3:11 PM

"As pressure mounted on South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford to resign today, the embattled Republican insisted he would remain in office despite mounting criticism from within his own party.

The tide of Republican opinion seemed to be shifting against the two-term governor in the wake of an emotional interview yesterday in which he detailed casual encounters with a number of women in addition to his Argentine mistress. . . ."

In the "Bible Belt" I sell cars, sell insurance, sell real estate, I'm a lawyer ... I join a church. I go to church on Wednesday night and faithfully every Sunday morning, it's a bonus if my wife can teach Sunday school.

It's a social gathering and the single most effective way to drum up business in my local community.

But it is obvious to me after so many years that in general my congregation is not very well educated, certainly low on the sophistication bar.

Are we God fearing?! You bet and quick to use the gospel to condemn anything or anyone who might live or think differently. While judgment they say is left to the "Lord", most in the numerous church's of the Bible Belt are quick to judge indeed.

The cruelty in which one or a family can be ostracized in the "Bible Belt" is shocking.

Separation between Church & State wasn't included in our Constitution by the founding fathers with out cause. They were witness to the prejudice and cold hypocritical judgment of those who will use "their god" to control others. They knew the dangers.

Current events in Iran today may point to an outcome when religion controls government and the lives of it's citizens.

Sanford simply tugs at the strings of those of faith to witness his struggle to follow the righteous path. "Forgive me, for I have sinned." Sanford depends on your understanding that we are all weak and certainly we can understand his failings.

For those in this part of the country that are afraid of their shadow because of their inherent protectionists attitudes towards the world at large and/or their general feeling of inferiority, religion is a means to bring comfort knowing that come Sunday they will commune with those of like mind. God only plays the host.

Anyone with the ability to reason who believes for a moment that Sanford is praying each night before bed time, should look for him on the Appalachian Trail.

In order to succeed in the bible belt you must be able to quote scripture and give every outward appearance of being a "good Christian." Otherwise you won't sell insurance, used cars, real estate or represent a congregation member who just got busted for fraud or run for political office.

There's something else at work here. The "southern religion", if I might climb out on a precarious limb, begins with the "sinner's prayer", whereas the northern mainline religion presumes that your were brought up Christian and doesn't anticipate a dramatic conversion experience.

Obviously both types of religion are practiced in both regions, but still - there is a difference in the extent to which they're practiced north and south.

Also worth mentioning is that Christianity, if it be defined as "belonging to a church", is dying more rapidly in the north than in the south.

In any case, it's easier for a public official and adulterer who was weaned on the "sinner's prayer" version of Christianity to make a fool of himself to a reporter than it is for one who was weaned on the "conversion experiences are to be mistrusted" model.

Farnaz1Mansouri1, thank you for the O'Connor link!

how is this news, Author?

The very notion that they invoke the name of God tells you that they expect to be forgiven, as always, just because they belong to some cult that has always forgiven themm no matter what the transgression against laws or morality or ethics.

They, like many, seem to think that thier projection of holiness - if in nothing more than words, not necessarily deeds - that the idiots of the religious cults buys the canned emotion calling on the higher power.

Somehow I can't help but believe that the very power they are appealing to is the very power that put them in that same situation in the first place.

This isn't news.

This is as old as religion itself, and it speaks to thier indulgences and preferrential treatment towards those that invoke the name of God.

they are clearly out of control, whether they believe in God or not, they're crooks making a last-ditch appeal to anyone who will listen.

Go easy on them, eh? they're fragile, frail little dualistic people with real lack of self-discipline.

But that's how Jesus likes 'em. powerful and ....yet, spiritually lost.

But this is nothing more than a dog rolling over on it's back when confronted with REAL (not 'believed-in') earthly powers.

THey want you to know that they're vulnerable, and you may now whack thier whatevers.

But it's really pathetic, isn't it? leaders of people, and this is what they do on a routine basis, under the eyes of thier "God".

And you faithful all go, "Aaawwwwwwww.....he's actually being godly - how...Awwwwwwww....let's pray....bleah, bleah, bleah.

Bill Clinton's still chasing skirts, but you who heard him apologize once are in for a big surprise.

He wasn't really all that contrite after all.

I thought the comment here about SC Constitution requiring chief executive to profess belief in .... was a joke -- NOT!
http://www.scstatehouse.gov/scconstitution/a04.htm

Why is there so much religious stuff in the Washington Post?

It is a religious manipulation that may play better in certain geographical areas . They want to pretend you will be confused about "judge not" and your duty to yourself to not be a fool .

DOULGASLBARBER:

Farnaz1Mansouri1, I have never read O'Connor, and now that you mention it, I think I will. I had at least one good history prof who suggested that reading fiction written during the period in question was more likely to give you insight into that period's events than reading what historians wrote afterward.
=============================
I don't know how old you are, but history now includes the study of fiction, film, the visual arts, micro-history, e.g., the history of "illness."

Flannery O'Connor (1925-1964) would be of interest to anyone with a historical perspective. One can, for instance, see in her work, more and more explicit allusions to the civil rights movement.

However, I should warn you in advance. Flannery O'Connor was a Catholic writer; I don't mean she was a writer who was Catholic. In her own words, "I am a Catholic writer." And, "Writing is an incarnational art." She saw the world, as she frequently explained, through Catholic lenses.

I would also see her collection of essays on this. Familiarity with the NT, referring to it is essential if one is to grasp the sheer power of her work. She was, I say, without reservation, a genius. And I am far from alone in this assessment; it is the view of believers of all faiths, religionists, agnostics, atheists, etc.

Here is a web site, which includes links to some of her short stories and online criticism.

http://www2.gcsu.edu/library/sc/foc.html

Farnaz1Mansouri1, I have never read O'Connor, and now that you mention it, I think I will. I had at least one good history prof who suggested that reading fiction written during the period in question was more likely to give you insight into that period's events than reading what historians wrote afterward.

douglaslbarber:

Re: Your post

Of course, "testifying" of various sorts exists in the North; however, mercifully, the nation has been spared the embarrassing drama of religious spillage in the media. Here, in New York, we had reporting on the adulterous Spitzer's escapades, followed briefly on coverage of the adulterous Gov. Paterson's adventures, and then it ended.

Upon reflection, I the problem has less to do do with religion per se, or even with the South. It concerns the national media reification of a kind of Southern Grotesque, beyond which the late and very great Flannery O'Connor could not have imagined.

Wish she were alive to witness this, had been alive to witness the Clinton affair, Jesse Jackson's Christian intervention. What glorious art might have sprung from it all.

And I keep asking but no one has the answer: when does Sanford's public stoning take place? Conservatives keep spouting all these Old Testament quotes to establish that "God" hates homosexuality. But never a peep about how the same books (Leviticus, Deuteronomy) claim that God commands a stoning when someone commits adultery. Interesting gear-shifting there.
Which is it? Is the OT defunct, or not? Why is it still included in most copies of your Bronze Age artifact if it is no longer enforced?

--------

You have 0 understanding of the Bible. So when an answer is given it falls on ears that can not hear and eyes that can not see. But Christians do not answer to your life. You will. The word is hidden from those that are in the world and you prove that. I feel sorry for you.

------

Kudos to you, ANLA1974 for responding to but not answering the question, while inadvertently answering the question perfectly!

B202's query and your response illustrate the difficulties (impossibility?) of believers and non-believers to rationally discuss the avowedly irrational.

B202: FWIW (based on the current practices in certain Muslim countries and the generally "female-unfriendly" nature of most monotheistic religions), I'm betting that even back in the Bronze Age it was not a lot of male adulterers who were being publicly stoned to death.

It's related to the "altar call" and "giving testimony", which I suppose might best be characterized as a "revivalist thing". It's not uniquely southern but I'd guess that an empirical study would find more altar calls per hour of church service south of the Mason-Dixon line than north of it.

During the first and second "Great Awakenings" in the north, altar calls and giving testimony would have been very common in the northeast.

Mormonism originated in that region during that period and preserves the "giving testimony" deal in its services.

KENC1 I agree with you. .... Again, the immigration rate has been much lower over the past and such leads to more families that have been installed in this country for hundreds of years. How is that less American than say New York. Half of the population there seems to have come over the last hundred, with the majority of them coming after World War II. Now how is that more American than Billy Bob whose family settled Virginia in 1620?
Posted by: lowdavi

lowdavi,
And I hope you can expand your question to: How is that more American than Jose, Sergio, Maria, and Ana who arrived in 2009?

It is, indeed, a southern thing, a southern Christian thing, having little to do with politics, governance. That Sanford failed to turn over his office whilst cavorting for a week in Brazil is of interest to the wider public. The rest is tiresome, boring to an extent I cannot even express.

As a southern Christian thing, it should be kept in southern Christian newspapers, leaving us northeasterners at peace. Please spare this northeastern Jew and countless northern others this unrelenting reporting on garbage. We freely authorize southern Christians to commit adultery, repent, the southern Christian masses to keep up to date on the various sexual trespasses of their co-religionists. Just spare the rest of us.

And I keep asking but no one has the answer: when does Sanford's public stoning take place? Conservatives keep spouting all these Old Testament quotes to establish that "God" hates homosexuality. But never a peep about how the same books (Leviticus, Deuteronomy) claim that God commands a stoning when someone commits adultery. Interesting gear-shifting there.
Which is it? Is the OT defunct, or not? Why is it still included in most copies of your Bronze Age artifact if it is no longer enforced?

--------

You have 0 understanding of the Bible. So when an answer is given it falls on ears that can not hear and eyes that can not see. But Christians do not answer to your life. You will. The word is hidden from those that are in the world and you prove that. I feel sorry for you.

Jimmy Swagert! He wasn't a real politician, but he had that old time religion right up till he was caught in a motel with a prostitute. Boy, did the tears flow as he confessed his sins. What a creep.
And who was that little creep married to Tammy Fay that ended up in the slammer after bilking people out of millions of dollars for his phony church.
Religion is the most successful, longest running, destructive fraud ever perpetrated on humanity.

They just aren't as good at hypocracy as the rest of us.

A southern thing, a religious thing -- what's the difference?

On an operational level, all reality is local. And in the South, there's a critical mass of people who share the same bogus religion-centric "reality". (Since religion is the most potent reality-negating force on Earth, "religious reality" is of course an oxymoron).

Religion provides a get-out-of-jail-free card for "sinners" and hypocrites (all y'all gotta do is believe). As a result, a disproportionate number of hypocritical moralizing philanderers are religious -- and Southern.

It's all getting a little tiresome. If everyone just took responsible for their own actions and quit hiding behind God's skirts, we'd all be a lot better off.

Neibuhr, you are absolutely brilliant. "God talk"? well, them southern rednecks are just full of it aren't they? I guess all your education enables you to mock with an air of authority.

And I keep asking but no one has the answer: when does Sanford's public stoning take place? Conservatives keep spouting all these Old Testament quotes to establish that "God" hates homosexuality. But never a peep about how the same books (Leviticus, Deuteronomy) claim that God commands a stoning when someone commits adultery. Interesting gear-shifting there.

Which is it? Is the OT defunct, or not? Why is it still included in most copies of your Bronze Age artifact if it is no longer enforced?

I always ask myself what came first, ignorance or religion and I also ask myself when and where religion and ignorance decided to get married for eternity.

It is very hard for me to accept that in 2009 anyone can believe in ANY religion and/or that ANY religion would be taken seriously by anyone.

Here it is, in case anyone finds this hard to imagine here in a western non-Islamic country. How you establish what someone's private beliefs are I haven't a clue, but Sanford is required to spout Bible verses from time to time to keep his job. Allah al Akbar, God is Greatest! Sheesh. What a mess the South is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_of_South_Carolina

"There are three requirements set forth in Section 2 of Article IV of the South Carolina Constitution: Belief in the existence of the Supreme Being. Be at least 30 years of age. Citizen of the United States and a resident of South Carolina for 5 years preceding the day of election"

Makes no difference, South, North, East or West, these "christian" politicians rely on two important but historically questionable passages from the NT to save their jobs:

: Luke 6:38c = Matt 7:2b

/6:37/ "Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven; /38/ give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap; for the measure you give will be the measure you get back."

= Matt 7:2b
/7:1/ "Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. /2/ For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.

John 8:7
"When they persisted in questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let the person among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

And since most contemporary historic Jesus exegetes after exhaustive review have declared these passages as being simply more embellishments, Billy et al can thank the semi-fictional authors, Luke, Matthew and John for saving their jobs.

Jesus had nothing to do with it!!!

What we should rely on in judging these fellows and gals is the more probable historic passage:

"1) Mark 9:42

If any of you put a stumbling block before one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for you if a great millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea.

= Matt 18:6
If any of you put a stumbling block before one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for you if a great millstone were fastened around your neck and you were drowned in the depth of the sea.

= Luke 17:2
It would be better for you if a millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea than for you to cause one of these little ones to stumble.

I should add that the SC Constitution actually REQUIRES you profess publicly a belief in a Magic Man in the Sky in order to be governor. So someone like Sanford is actually bound by the state Constitution to mumble this gibberish from time to time.

How disappointing that so many 'open-minded' people have such a deep hatred for Christians. How many of you have ever actually studied the bible ? If you had, you would understand that we are all sinners (all fall short of the Glory of God) and that God view all sins equally. Adultery is no different than lying or using foul language. So yes, Christians are hypocrites but according to Gods will, we confess our sins and (should) repent. What I see lacking in Sanford's comments is the repenting. This does not mean that Christians do not sin.

I hate to say it, but the author ignores the obvious: southerners are (in general) a very backward and easily manipulated lot. That's why the power brokers down there - none of whom are silly enough to believe in a Magic Spirit - invoke all the God talk. It's the easiest way to get the squirmy faithful back into the palm of their hand.

The southern religious masses are ahead of their Pashtun-speaking counterparts in Afghanistan merely due to the moderating influence of the large number of secular humanists who live here in their same country, if not in their region in large numbers. It is the insistence on modernity by liberals here in the US that keeps these primitive tribespeoples rooted (at least tenuously) in the 21st century. Without that anchoring they would float back to their recent past of keeping "coloreds" shackled, women barefoot and submissive, and their state laws mired in the 18th century still.

Politicians know how to play them. But then they're an instrument easily plucked.

Yes, the evangelical belief that all you need to do is to believe in Jesus as your personal saviour leads to this ridiculous position that you can do anything and be forgiven. The Roman Church, with all its warts, at least demands some sort of penance. Evangelicals don't understand penance. They are saved. In my view, they are damned!

Good Lord!!! I sometimes like what is written here "On Faith" but this is garbage! I surely hope most people are disgusted when politicians make such public displays of their indiscretions and invoke the name of God. It isn't unlike watching any other freak show. After reading this item, I ask: What do the northerners do to hide their indiscretions? Whatever it is, I guess they just do a better job of it and no need to have to lean on God. However, I'll bet some of them pray a LOT!!!

There is a canon law that describes the woman's right to be protected when a spouse or man tries falsely incarcerates or restrains her in any way.When these "sinners" hide in scripture or in other forms of religious abuses then entire communities suffer.The first husband,the father of my sons,was abused by his mother and father and couldn't cope with the long term affects of those abuses,he chose alcohol,drugs,and womanizing while using psychological torment on me to attempt to convince me that I had victimized him.His family members helped him in this crusade since his alcoholic father paid to educate his third wife as a social worker.Couple that with my extended family with military and Ford motor connections to place blame on me and my children to cover their deviances against my Dad and brothers and the finger pointing and accusations are never ending.These people only had political asperations yet were probably quick to align themselves politically with men like these who epitimize abuse against women and their children.

KENC1 I agree with you. They are always the "others." The reality is that those folks from the South are some of the most authentic Americans we have. As long as this country has been colonized the South has played a part. Virginia (Jamestown), South Carolina (Fort Sumter), and Georgia. Again, the immigration rate has been much lower over the past and such leads to more families that have been installed in this country for hundreds of years. How is that less American than say New York. Half of the population there seems to have come over the last hundred, with the majority of them coming after World War II. Now how is that more American than Billy Bob whose family settled Virginia in 1620?

Politicians should stay as far away from religion as possible; limit their remarks and uphold the Jeffersonian Wall of Separation. Of course they will not do that because of a hyperinflated religious nature of too many Americans. With that said I would suggest a basic difference between Bill Clinton, John Edwards and the Republicans. Clinton and Edwards didn't beat people over the head with fundimentalist nonsense or act as if they were better than others.
Talk of religion, professions of faith or lack of, should be banned from the public arena!

As a southerner,what struck me was the reference to the South as "down there." The South has always been "the other" to Northerners. Somehow they are not real Americans but strange folks "down there," in that other place.

What does this have to do with
synagogues...

and who calls this talk "the language of Zion"? Is anything not about Jews?

The Southerners have a facility with God-talk because it helps both ways: if one has sinned, one can refer to a forgiving, loving God; and if one is straight as an arrow, a good "boy", then hallelujah. Sanford is looking ridiculous because now he seems to be wallowing in his "studness" having had an affair with a foreigner and "close encounters" with other women. He must have been such a nerd in his youth and had not sown his wild oats.

What does this have to do with

synagogues...

Sanford is nothing more or less than a bible-toting right-wing flake, and a hypocrite. That he should assume the role of judge in other people's affairs, and then cite Jesus and the bible as his justification for clinging to office, just confirms why I soooo dislike so-called devout Christians in general, and republican Christians specifically.

People can ask forgiveness from God if they want to. That is nothing to be ashamed of. The secular world will be itself and the Christian world will be the Christian world. God knows what is truly in a persons heart and while we all have an opinion we really don't know what drove these men to cheat...immaturity in handling their marital problems, simple desire for the other woman with restraint not even attempted or maybe they tried to resist and found they weren't strong enough, etc., etc. Who knows, but they have a right to call on God and ask forgiveness from Him and from the public. That is not a shameful thing to do even for the lowest of the low and even one caught being a hypocrit. I don't like a hypocrit either, but I won't ever feel any measure of shame to love God and respect my faith. Pleazzz and they shouldn't either.

Perhaps I don't read the Bible as much as fundamentalists claim to, but I recall there was some kind of admonition whenever Jesus forgave someone to "go forth, and sin no more". The kind of forgiveness Jesus offered worked hand-in-hand with repentance, and making right out of wrongs. That's why the only sincerely Christian evangelical of the Southern variety I have ever had any use for was Billy Graham. Most of the others are phoneys who operate a for-profit cult rather than being truly Christian.

You made a comment that more people in the South attend Synagogues? What are you saying? I am from the South and its hard for me to imagine that there are more people at Synagogue in Alabama, Mississippi and Georgia than in New York, Miami, DC etc. That just doesn't sound right. The South was colonized by Anglo-Saxons and most of them were Christian. Since that time the South has not exactly been the center of immigration, especially from Jews. How in the world are you inferring that the South is more Jewish than New York. They are a minority just like they are everywhere else and they are Semites. Are you talking about Dallas? Miami? If so then refer to those cities or take a visit to Memphis and tell me that attendance is higher at Synagogue there than in NY. If you are Jewish I understand that you are just trying to quell the beef but get the facts right. When has the South ever been Jewish? NEVER!!!

I'd say its a southern thing in so much as religious fundamentalism continues to permeate much of the thinking in that part of the Republic. Where would these folks be without their hypocritical "God talk"? To me, the willful ignorance and the utter hypocrisy is repugnant, especially among those who are in power whether they be democrats or members of the disappearing GOP.

ST_SATAN says "After seeing the cold cold attitude, dry lips and beady eyes of Jenny Sanford, it is NOT difficult to imagine why the man Mark Sanford surrendered to the liberating moisty-middle of the Argentine woman."

Give the woman a break! You'd be "frosty" too, if your spouse went on the record as having a "soul mate" (not you) and saying that he/she was "trying to fall back in love with" you. What a slap in the face!

I say "You go girl - just as far from him as you can!"

Of course it's a Southern thing--why JFK, Spitzer, etc etc etc did the deed. Southerners all. What an idiotic column. Did someopne at WaPo actually PAY for this?

Pretty much agree with ATHENA4. Also think there is a pretty hypocritical policy among evangelicals..where because of their(seemingly) more "personal" relationship with God..forgiveness is a given and they plea for our understanding...what is that all about?

Is it a Southern Thing? I'd say it's more a guy thing. A womans favorite organ is her brain, for a man, that is his second favorite.

Mrs Sandfords strength should be an example to all people. Is it only the male's that commit these stupid stunts ? All the obvious questions aside, why is it that women politions never make the headlines with this kind of foolishness. It almost seems like he wanted to get caught. Well, if so, his wish has come true. Now he can be with his true love in Argentina.

Not necessarily Southern but with the rise of that peculiarly American brand of 'born againism' (basically a get out of Hell free card), forgiveness and redemption take center stage. It's amazing the lengths, otherwise intelligent, adults will go through to be seen on the right side of the invisible sky fairy du jour. Disgraceful. Does it never occur to anyone that these smarmy pricks get all up in your face Christian only after they've been caught. Sheesh. The hypocritical leading the blind. We deserve the politicians we get (or are sold).

Hypocrisy comes easily to fundamentalists, and the republican party is full of fundamentalist hypocrites.

You see, in the south there is a massive public peer pressure to go evangelical.
Want a job? Better not talk against fundamentalist ideas on the shop floor. Better not talk about supporting Obama, either.

This gives the fundamentalists a false sense of superiority because nobody is telling them they are full of it to their face. They then tell themselves the nation is on their side.

Once they have the nation on their side they can then hide behind the dais and do whatever sin they like until it inevitably comes out.

This is different from the western fundamentalist politician. They are simply criminals in church, using the bible to hide the disgusting stains of their self-serving, nest feathering, freedom hating ideology.

When we stop accepting that fundamentalists are anything but hypocrites they will keep getting elected by southerners and wrecking our nation in the process,

Reply to: St_Satan | July 1, 2009 2:02 PM

If Mark Sanford had been honest, and told the world that he had fallen out of love with his life, and fallen in love with another and divorced Jenny (before sleeping with Maria) then I would say be happy. That he felt he had to hide his actions means that he was not proud of what he had done, and he knew what he was doing was wrong.

Even a child knows that you only lie if what you are doing is wrong.

"The deputy sheriffs, the soldiers, the governors get paid,
And the marshals and cops get the same,
But the poor white man's used in the hands of them all like a tool.
He's taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
'Bout the shape that he's in
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game."

Southern "religion" and politics are a pregnant mix...

How many ways can you kill a man? It must be what Sanford's wife is mostly thinking these days. But as for the rest of us watching him on TV, I would rate his performance at excusing himself for his current collegeboy conduct, at below a D. I liked what Ross Perot once said about a job applicant at Perot Systems, "If his wife can't trust him, how can we.?"

Of course it's a southern thing! It's a predictable and transparent play for sympathy based on a purely emotional appeal to the overtly religious but quietly hypocritical electorate. It's an age old southern tradition!

Its not a Southern thing; its a hypocritical thing. Each of these men were blatant hypocrites. What is worst is that each of them couches their plea for forgiveness in spiritual jargon that undermines their personal actions. That is the blasphemy. They are disgraceful human beings who ought never to be heard from or seen again.

"[I]f a Governor is fair with the people of their state, makes sure that schools, parks, law enforcement, etc. are well-funded, lowers the level of corruption, and makes the lives of the people in that state better, I don't care what they believe or who they sleep with."

Athena4,

I agree completely and would only add that I want a Gov to be reachable AT ALL TIMES by someone on his staff. He can't do his job properly if he thinks it's ok to fly off of everyone's radar (staff and spouse, alike) for 5 days.

That disappearing act was the height of irresponsibility and poor judgment. For that, alone, he should step down.

how do you spell P U K E F A C E

I never could figure out what having a belief or a "personal relationship" with God had to do with good governance. Personally, if a Governor is fair with the people of their state, makes sure that schools, parks, law enforcement, etc. are well-funded, lowers the level of corruption, and makes the lives of the people in that state better, I don't care what they believe or who they sleep with.