Obama vs. Osama in Muslim World

BIOS

You wrote, "Thomas,
I respectfully want to ask you: Why do you say god has a plan and why do you think you know what it is?"

Because I have met God, Who Is a Trinity and is a Being of Pure Love and I have also met satan.

I may not know all of the details of God's Plan, I don't need to, God is God, God chose me to be a messenger, but much of His Plan has already unfolded and is continuing to unfold before our very eyes.

Jesus is God-Incarnate, it doesn't matter if one believes this or not, as it says, "Faith is a gift that no man should boast".

Something to think about, when God-Incarnate walked this planet, do you or anyone else think that God asked us to be more forgiving, more merciful than God?

As I have said before: God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable.

As I have also said before: If God was even remotely like what some of the people that know His Name think that He Is, then I can not fathom how anyone would want to have anything to do with Him.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

The title of the article itself ("Obama vs. Osama in Muslim World") tries to tilt the argument. Similarities in the name aside, there's NOTHING in common, and trying to suggest, even subliminally, is a serious misrepresentation.

Apart from this, Obama is AFTER Osama like Bust never was for the past 8 years.

Thomas,

I respectfully want to ask you: Why do you say god has a plan and why do you think you know what it is?

I have read many complaints about how the US & other western countries have tried to wipe out other cultures. We're not the only ones who do it, the Chinese are said to be trying to wipe out the Tibetan culture.

Culture is more than religion or politics, they overlap, but culture is everything that makes one people look & act different from another.

You write that Muslim religious values are the same as our political values & that Muslims will no longer fear we are going to destroy their society if they see that. But you forget that culture is not the same as politics & religion, & we have a history of wiping out other cultures. I think they have a right to fear us for that.

That said, I believe the only way we can ever make peace with our neighbors is to find common ground.

Mr. Rauf : I agree with your liberal views about Muslims . I believe that there are a number of countries where Muslims are in majority , but there is no Islamic country . Almost all those countries where Muslims are in majority , they do not have democratic forms of government , they are mostly ruled by a dictator , king or sheikh favored by U. S. and the West . Muslims all over the World do not approve of terrorism and are suffering because of the terrorist attacks as well as the U.S. and West's War on terrorism . I believe President Obama's April 7, 2009 speech from a Muslim but secular Turkey will become a great symbol of good will . If the message is followed by a thrust of policy of diplomacy and development in Muslim countries . The package should include programs of eradication of poverty , basic human needs and security in communities.

Hondo asserts:

“Sharia law guarantees fairness and justice between Muslims, not other faiths.”

There is no justice or fairness even between the Muslims themselves. No equality before the Sharia(religion derived laws) between men and women or even between slave born and free born or between nomads and urban dwellers or between the 77 different Muslim sects. No Druze Muslim can safely marry an Ahmadi or Sunni Muslim etc. When Sunni marries a Shiite, and that rarely happens, both are shunned by their relatives. The Sunnis subjugated and oppressed the majority Shiites in Iraq during the previous regime and now the Shiites are retaliating.

The US constitution guarantees liberty and justice for all; Sharia law guarantees fairness and justice between Muslims, not other faiths.

Feisal pontificates thus:
“American beliefs in individual liberty and the dignity of the individual are Islamic principles as well.”
And later
“In the same way, Islamic law believes that God has ordained political justice, economic justice, help for the weak and impoverished. These are (also)very Islamic concepts.”

If it is true that you could not distinguish between the US Constitution with its Bill of Rights from the Islamic principles, why are the proliferating Muslim organizations in this country whose members escaped their failed societies and risked life and limb to land on our shores are actively scheming to replace our laws with their Sharia laws ?
Cited below is part of a memo circulated by Muslim organizations in this country.
“The process of settlement [of Islam in the United States] is a "Civilization-Jihadist" process with all the word means. The Ikhwan must understand that all their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" their miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all religions. Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim's destiny to perform Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final hour comes, and there is no escape from that destiny except for those who choose to slack.”

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/columnists/rdreher/stories/DN-dreher_09edi.ART.State.Edition1.4235f88.html

BIOS

You wrote, "I haven’t seen you so emotional before. What enrages you so much? Don’t you think Mr. Rauf is ultimately preaching a unifying message?"

I do not think that implementing sharia law is a good thing, not even close.

Sometimes, the implementation of something can come about in such a way as not to be noticed until...

Case in point, we have let some of our "freedoms" erode away in the name of "security", yet this is a very insecure world, kind of the name of the game, don't you think?

Anytime anyone tries to shove God or god or themself down another's throat is, in my opinion, ungodly.

Anything that is truly of God should come from within. We are not God and we should not try to set up a theocracy of any sort, it has been tried numerous times and it can get pretty ugly, don't you think?

This country's founding documents was for the seperation of church and state which I happen to believe was God-Inspired.

We are free to believe and act on those beliefs within limits which I can see reasons for and I would imagine most people also could.

I think that no one should force their beliefs on another in any way, shape or form but that they can have their beliefs and live them if they are not hurtful to another: physically, spiritually, emotionally, psychologically, whatever...

As I have said, God looks at the person, not the label.

Sharia law is a law based on theocracy, it has no rightful place with a humanity that has been given free will and a conscience.

I am thankful that God has a Plan and I am also thankful that God is not even remotely like what some of those that know His Name think that He is.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Correction:

LEBANON + Israel + Turkey + Palistine + Syria + Jordan; under 1-ONE Currency, One U.S. Contitution (of LEVANT) and English (not American) as the business language of the World; not Arabic, not Hebrew, not Turkish.

All Religion must be [Forever] genuinely be seperate from STATE (institutions, Public etc..), True (opposite of MYTH) Secular Governing.

Please: Do not Blame America; instead, Blame the collapse of the "TURKISH-EMPIRE" & or the collapse of the "BRITISH-EMPIRE".

The Saudi's know This. The Isreli & Aegyptians know this.., But, Hence why some knuckle-Heads do not nor can face this TRUTH (opposite MYTH)!

Remember;

[Islamic & mostly Sunni] Pakistan West & E., is on "STOLEN-LAND" via Baluchistan/INDIA Proper, thus taken away via "Islamic' Law as if Principle to take away such land grabs as an opportunity, or used as such Excuse for their "Al Taqiyah"ism (Islamic-Zion-ism; conquest for world (no more flat-earth thinking?) domination.

So now, W. PAKiSTAN, by trickery/stealth like, is suddenly The "Vanguard Of Islam", on the block [Earth] via a "Sunni-Atomic Bomb"!???

Suggestion:

Turkey Should build, via a NEW Federal/SECULAR Constitution, a "United States of the LEVANT Nations" [U.S.L.].

Imagine UNITED STAES of (Northern)LEVANT neighboring EURO with a genuine & pure secular Federal Constitutional Government & thus replacing TODAY's;

Turkish Constitution (quasi/secular), the Israeli Constitution (semi/Secular), The Palistianian Constitution (semi/Secular), the Syrian Constitution (Monarch), And the Jordanian Constitution (Monarch) & under 1 Currency and English, the business language of the World.

For the same reason that Malaysians, nor Indonesians nor IRANians or Pakistanians.. Are not Arabs/Beduins, THAT

Turks, Lebanese, Israeli's, Palistinian's, Syrian's, Jordanians, are not ARABS/Beduion!

Note: And All the major ARAB/Beduin states of Saudi can then be seperate [like North (united SECULAR states) & South (united Sharia states of Saudi,Gulf, Hijaz, Yemen) and have their own currency if need be of which they are working on right now for 2011/12.???

Nations at Parallel or above AFRICA (not Levant) Aegypt & Libiya & Morocco et al, should have a N. African United States too!

So a SECULAR "U.S of The Levant", and a U.S. of the (Secular, not Sharia) N. North African States & a U.S. of (SHARIA, not Secular) S. Southern States is best for West, East, South, North & between.

The most intractible problem is the Arab-Israeli conflict. Perhaps if Israelis would be a little more humble at the beginning, Arabs would be a little more accepting. If this idea of a state of Israel had been approached from the standpoint of, "we're really sorry we had to do this...if we had gone back to Europe, we would have been killed...", then Arabs might have been more willing to accept them. Instead, there has been breathtaking arrogance from day one, which has in turn led to unremitting hostility on the Arab side of the conflict. I can't stand people who talk about Arab hostility toward the West without understanding that the Arabs did not start the conflict.

In the middle east when one has a grievence, they don't say there should be a law. They blow up women a children with
children while the fat old mulahs sit back drink the tea and says it's gods law. They are cowards murderers and zellots. Turn their sand into glass.

What in the world are you talking about? There is no Muslim world. There is just a gang of low life warlords runnning around blowing up people in the name of Alah!
Forget them, I just wish my ancestors "the crusadors" had done a better job.

There has been stress among the Muslims and the Christians and the jews and the Budihts and the etc... forever. You cannot deal with these animals. And yet in the middle of this goes the great one, pitching his dribble and quite likely civilized culture down the toilet.

Mr. A. RAUF & Friends:

Like the 'Several States' [UNiON] of these, United-States, with room & potential to add more States in futur like all the way into Mexico to Panama point, an Open Corridor from U.S/Canada..; THAT

The FEDERAL [Secular] GOVERNMENT is "Superior" to Any 50+ State-Member(s) of which must Comply [Equally or exceedingly] with the tune of "OUR" miraculous Made, Holyi U.S. Federal Constitution. So,

Sharia, nor Halakha nor Caste nor Apartheid etc.. need NO, not-apply nor Devilishly, in Religious Clothing or via their Symbols or rituals, attempt to compete/compare with OUR TRUE (opposite MYTH) JUSTICE System.

in "IT" [G-d] WE [i] TRUST"

Note: G-D , not god, and is NO/NOT a "He/Him nor is this world HIS", is an "IT". Maybe the Prophet(s) are All "HE"s. not G-D.

i.e., Mr. Moses, Yashua, Muhammad, Vyasa, Gautama, Mr. Confusion et al.

Hence Secular "Rule of Law" has all the Equity & Justice fillings or answers, so to spaketh via Precedence of "Stare Decises"; Applications & Examples For all aspects of 'Family Law, Business, Criminal, Civil, International Law(s) too.'

TRUST, the "Fairness Doctrine"!

The US has taken a lot of heat for using the stick first and the carrot later - if at all. Whether this is true or not is arguable, but that is the perception. So, let Obama try the carrot, but keep the stick handy. If he has to use it, at least he can say he tried.

Author - I really don't understand a thing you are saying. The bottom line is that Islam is way too emotional to work with. That being the case, give them what they want: Armageddon. The sooner the better.

I think that Obama is right to address the "Muslim" world. But to believe that this will stop the clash of civilization is a little bit simplistic.

Muslims who will listen to Obama already know that he is trying to appease tensions among the West and the Muslim world. Obama will only preach to the choir. I really don't think that this will appease Muslim extremists.

Diplomacy is great but not an end in itself. We are going to have problems with Muslim extremists for years before unhappy, extremist people turn to another ideology.

Just a small correction, Imam: "Love thy neighbor as thyself" is also Torah, not Jesus. Leviticus 19:18.

Who going to believe that religion is not the conflict but the solution, when all we see coming from the Middle East is religious wars and jihads?
Can you get any more contradictory in this post? First saying that religion is not the conflict then validating that in Islam, religion is the law, which means everything. So how can this not relate to the conflict?

I agree with the strategy to emphasize the commonality of Western and Islamic values if it gives results. But I think ignorance is at the basis of this problem as well as in religion. It will therefore be difficult to find a solution until people come out of their ignorance.

Hi Thomas,

I haven’t seen you so emotional before. What enrages you so much? Don’t you think Mr. Rauf is ultimately preaching a unifying message?

Feisal Abdul Rauf

Are you saying that Islam is just a political organization that wants to take over the planet?

Are you saying that one of the things about the USA concerning the seperation of church and state doesn't apply to Islam because it is not a religion but a political movement.

No matter how you dress it up, Islam and sharia law is about setting up a theocracy and that is exactly what the founding of this country was against.

God gave us free will and it is what comes from within not what is forced on someone from the outside so any theocracy set up by any human is totally against God's granting to us of free will.

God did not make us puppets on a string or automatons even tho some of us sure seem to want to control others in that way.

I know that laws are needed that is pretty obvious but for ANY GROUP to try and shove their religion down other people's throats is not only wrong but it is also ungodly.

By the way, the True, Living, Triune, Triumphant God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof.

It is important what one does and why one does it and what one knows.

Doing the right thing for the right reason is not the same as doing the right thing because one is forced to do it or if one is terrified to not do the right thing, this seems pretty obvious but it seems that some do not seem to see the difference.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.