Obama and the Old Guard

Didn't you already offer that critique?

Farnaz, why are you continuing a complaint from the last post? Freeing the Jews was a result of th actions of the soldiers of WWII- Patel was just pointing out that while the US was fighting angainst oppressive forces over there- it was hypocritically oppressing a segment of our population over here. It wasn't a history lesson- nor is it necessary to continue to defame his credentials.
I see people here say the vilest ugliest lies and defamation of Muslims all the time.
People are not always going to consider everything first from your perspective- we all have them.
THIS post is about growth and moving on and change.
It is a good message.

Very underwhelming, Eboo. Reads kind of like a gossip column.

I would point out, though, that neither old guard nor new with even a middle school education could have written what you did in your last post:

"Consider America during World War II, fighting across Europe to free the Jews"

If you read the numerous comments on this, your hugely faulty knowledge of American history, I would expect a response. I would do as was suggested. Google this date: December 7, 1941.

Look at any American history book dealing with WWII and America's involvement in it. You see, you've engendered doubts about your biography. Either you never were a Rhodes scholar, which we should be able to find out, or the Scholarship Committee has some explaining to do.

Thank you CLOUDSUPHIGH-
That was an eye-opener for me.
I was born in 1961 (and used to say) it was the year the god made all of the balanced babies-it is the same upside down as right side up.

I certainly never felt part of the boomers- and the Xers are too materialistic and cynical for me.

I had no idea there was even a designation for my in-between generation. Let alone someone spomehwere had bothered to name it Jones. (Is that an allusion to the anonymity or generic in-between identity of it?)

Thanks alot, that was very interesting and relevant to me!

Farnaz, why are you continuing a complaint from the last post? Freeing the Jews was a result of th actions of the soldiers of WWII- Patel was just pointing out that while the US was fighting angainst oppressive forces over there- it was hypocritically oppressing a segment of our population over here. It wasn't a history lesson- nor is it necessary to continue to defame his credentials.
I see people here say the vilest ugliest lies and defamation of Muslims all the time.
People are not always going to consider everything first from your perspective- we all have them.
THIS post is about growth and moving on and change.
It is a good message.

I am sure many African-Americans would question whether Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson were the Old Guard, hence no need to seek their approval or support. They spoke for themselves and no one else.

Barack is more like the Old Guard of Martin Luther King and the more conservative Black political movements. In this light, he is of the Moses generation. Obama is a trailblazer, not a successor.

Historical knowledge isn't always what it should be.

Quite right, and none of us who voiced astonishment at Patel's WWII remark expected that his knowledge of the event would be up to par. However, it is sp far off the mark as to call into question the education he claims for himself.

As bad as higher ed is in the US today, Rhodes Scholars are expected to know at least something of WWII. (Btw., it would be good if they knew something about WWI, as well, but that is beside the point.)

Something is wrong with this picture. Very wrong.

I agree with what you are saying about Patel mis-representing history for rhetorical purposes. It's probably deliberate, as one could hardly be considered well-read while thinking that we fought the Germans in WWII in order to save the Jews. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, though, and act as though it was an honest mistake. Historical knowledge isn't always what it should be.

That's what allows revisionist historians to describe actual historical events in terms that fit their own personal prejudices - they get the general outlines correct but leave out the evidence against their view. You bring up an excellent example with the revisionist theory that Pearl Harbor was a clever plot against the Japanese by scheming Americans. The Japanese attacked us because we were thwarting their ambition to turn all of East Asia into a massive slave colony under Japanese overlordship. The Japanese weren't opposed to colonialism - they wanted to keep colonialism - they just wanted to run it for their own benefit.

PS - For those of you who need additional insight, Google "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere". This was Japan's explicitly stated war aim.

The New Guard: The Immoral Majority

President-elect Obama rode to Blood-Red House on the backs of 35+million aborted womb-babies!!!

(The fastest growing USA voting bloc: The 70 million "mothers and fathers of aborted children" whose ranks grow by two million per year.)

i.e. the Immoral Majority now rules the land and will do so in the foreseeable future.

How very sad and disturbing!!!

I guess a second question is whether he reads this thread. If so, he has had the opportunity to respond to his numerous critics on the issue under discussion.

Meant to write as in my notes.

"Which is all irrelevent to today's discussion - I just like jumping up on my soapbox."

No problem, for me, at any rate, although I'd say that Jews and Roma were in a unique situation. I'd add to your analysis, which I don't entirely buty, that we certainly provoked the Japanese having had our own designs, as it were, in the region. In fact, there is now a revisionist history that has us setting a trap for the Japanese at Pearl Harbor.

The issue insofar as Patel is concerned is how any American, particularly one who claims to have been a Rhodes scholar could post that we went into the War to save Jews, setting aside, for the moment Patel's accusatory tone. That is so far from the truth, given our discriminatory immigration policies as to be risible.

Patel's assertion does call his credentials into question, as Farnaz notes. So does this current offering of his, IMO. I agree they shouldn't be hard to investigate.

Yeah, Farnazz, good point. We did not fight WWII to free the Jews. That was just one of the side benefits of the war. We also didn't fight it to free the Gypsies, Poles, Koreans, Formosans, Chinese, etc. We fought it because the fascists and militarists attacked us. They attacked us because we were providing their enemies/victims (said Chinese, Poles, etc.) with materiel and diplomatic support, without actually voluntarily fighting for them (with a few individual exceptions).

So we destroyed them utterly. It was the right thing to do.

Which is all irrelevent to today's discussion - I just like jumping up on my soapbox.

One of the oldest problem humans have faced throughout human history and prehistory is that mindsets get entrenched under the circumstances of the time. But times change and mindsets don't change easily. It takes generations to change the mindsets of different peoples. I guess the OLD GUARD CONCEPT REFERS TO THIS IDEA.

Very underwhelming, Eboo. Reads kind of like a gossip column.

I would point out, though, that neither old guard nor new with even a middle school education could have written what you did in your last post:

"Consider America during World War II, fighting across Europe to free the Jews"

If you read the numerous comments on this, your hugely faulty knowledge of American history, I would expect a response. I would do as was suggested. Google this date: December 7, 1941.

Look at any American history book dealing with WWII and America's involvement in it. You see, you've engendered doubts about your biography. Either you never were a Rhodes scholar, which we should be able to find out, or the Scholarship Committee has some explaining to do.

Eboo, your fans encouraged me to read the Book of Knowledge, a Muslim Holy Book. I compared that writing with Revelations, a Christian Holy Book.

Both books deal with the end of "things".
Some people have been professing the end of the world on a regular basis for centuries, the really last good scare was New Year's Eve 2000. The next end of the world scare is based on 12/12/12/.

Dark ages are followed by Reformation or Renaissance, no duh. Some people can get on board the train to the future or not. One of my elders taught me that "On this boat, you either fish or cut bait".

People like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton make their living exploiting the racial problems we have in America. They don't exist without them.

Obama it seems largely ignored these problems, or at least went past them without worrying too much about them. We will have a black president on january 20, a man who got where he is largely because of his accomplishments. A man who wouldn't take no for an answer.

Where in this Obama presidency is there room for Jackson and Sharpton and their kind? How are they going to maintain the racial divisions they need for their income?

I never saw on TV or heard Obama comment on Ron Paul's comment as to why we have to have military bases in 160 countries of the world and why do we have to be policemen of the world. Being the policemen of the world is a pretty expensive, according to Ron Paul, the libertarian.

Is the whole thing an "old guard" mindset?

Thus far in his career, on those rare occasions when he was required to stand for something, toed the party line with precision. Which made the Old Guard feel good about him. Non-threatening.

Now he's the boss and he has no way to avoid hard decisions. He can do what the Old Guard wants, or he can make his own decisions. We'll see what he does when he gets in office.

But we need to bear in mind that while the Joshua/Moses Generation imagery may be a helpful metaphor in the context of generations of civil rights and religious leadership, that these labels/concepts don't replace the actual cultural generations like Boomers, WWII Generation, etc.

Relevantly, many prominent experts and publications have pointed out that Obama is part of Generation Jones, born 1954-1965, between the Boomers and Generation X.
You may find this page interesting: it has, among other things, excerpts from publications like Newsweek and the New York Times, and videos with over 25 top pundits, all talking specifically about Obama’s identity as a GenJoneser: http://www.generationjones.com/2008election.html

The 'Old Guard'!! This is an archaic concept.