Music and the Possibility of Peace

Thanks Friend-
Settling in? I've been on this blog since the first question was asked over 2 years ago.

Don Henley, End of the Innocence

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipP3qy-NZKE

I was reading Thoreau this weekend and thought about this post. I think art generally and music specifically, does take us out of our push-button, machine-like order that rules over our conformist lives. Rock and pop music certainly introduced other opinions when I was growing up.

"But lo! men have become the tools of their tools. ... We now no longer camp for a night, but have settled down on earth and forgotten heaven. ... The best works of art are the expression of man's struggle to free himself from this condition, but the effect of our art is merely to make this low state comfortable and that higher state to be forgotten"

And all of these blog vitriols are due to the flaws and errors of the various religions being defended or degraded.

Obviously, it is time to "deflaw" them all!!!!

Farnaz:

It looks like Astoria/Victoria/Prohilary is settling in permanently. If you do "check in," check out her post on Brumberg's thread. I keep meaning to tell her that Clinton spells her name with two ls.

Take care, my friend. Good luck with your grant. I imagine you'll be helping a lot of people.

Observer

Arminius:

I forgot to ask. How goes your reading of the "OT"? (Who's the bigot?) And said "OT" is fiction but not the "NT"?

Anti-Christian my foot.

Grow the hell up.

Ask me why I left the church. "Christians" like you make me sick.

Arminius:

You've lost your mind. I'm done restraining myself. I think Astoria is a lot smarter than you.

Farnaz uses polemics. See dictionary. That's not the same as "bashing." What your good friend does is lie, and her lies are in front of your eyes. I'll post my dialogue with Deb Chatterjee later.

What she also does is called Jew-bashing, Jew-bating, anti-Semitism, racism.

If Farnaz is anti-Christian, why has she posted on the persecution of Christians?

I don't know if you really don't get it, if your a bigot, or if you can't admit you're wrong.

I don't trust myself at this point. You remind me of why I left the church. Lest I descend to your level and your evil friend's, I'm logging off.

Victoria/Astoria,

I'm not sure where we are going here, but I am with you. This blog has descended into madness. We need to regroup and rethink.

Observer,

Farnaz has bashed Christians repeatedly. Astoria (Victoria) is quite correct in her assessment. I reject you and anything you might say, unless you somehow see your way to tolerance.

Arminius,

If this last post from Astoria doesn't communicate clearly to you, I can't imagine what will. She knows Farnaz won't reply to her, and thinks for some reason I will.

My posts to Deb Chatterjee, which Farnaz mentioned, were in opposition to him, and that's a matter of record.

What's more, Astoria was posting at the same time, so she knows very well that I blogged in opposition to Chatterjee.

Farnaz has defended Muslims again and again on this blog, so much so that she's been accused several times of being a Muslim as you know.

The fact that she also stands up for Jews, Bahai, Christians, etc., doesn't make her anti-Muslim. The fact that she opposes racism makes her pro-humanity. If you can't see what Astoria is up to, then I give up.

Take a look at this last post from her, and recall Farnaz's continual defenses of Pakistan's struggle for freedom, condemnation of Bhutto's assassination, opposition to the war in Iraq, etc., etc., etc.

What Astoria is up to is sneaky, I grant you, but it is possible to see it for what it is, and it's despicable.

Btw., Farnaz foresaw Astoria's attempt to identify Farnaz and me as one. Scroll down:

"Should I take my cue from you, and accuse you and Arminius of being the same person? False accusations aren't my thing, nor are they the thing of any of the world religions."

I hope you can see this evil for what it is.

Observer, the only thing that seems to unite you, and the aforementioned Deb Chatterjee, and Farnaz is a virulent hatred of Muslims.
And a united attack of any who imply there may be some concord reached between Christians, Muslims, and Jews.

Case in point- Arminius, (Christian)
Sparrow (Jewish)
Myself (Muslim)

And Eboo Patel? Who dares to inform us of people in the world who are actually finding harmony from the ashes of discord-

Blasphemy!

Biw, it is my own observation in life,that people often quite vociferously and passionately accuse others of things they may be guilty of themselves.

I won't even touch (much) upon the repeated slinging of the term racist at every opportunity-
or the fact that only you and Observer seem to have eyes that see racism all around you-

But it struck me odd the way you both repeated accusations that sparrow was posting under different names here- although that seems more difficult now with the automatic sign in name-

but I notice that Farnaz and Observer, always seem to post within minutes of each other- in concert- almost as if they might be in the same....room maybe.

And Observer's passionate defense does almost seem one a ---husband ---might make.
Sparrow's offhand joke that you 2 may be married may not be so far off.

I guess I can also assume that the family religion unifies you both in atheism- and fine for you both!
This is a forum for common ground- all are welcome.

But, Farnaz- I'll indulge myself in another observation since you state you are leaving forever (again).

You seem to have completely drawn your entire self-identity from a trauma that happened 30 years ago, when you were a young child.
And while you seem to get quite a bit of mileage out of it- your whole being appears to be in some sort of homeostasis.

We are all celebrating a new generational change in America with the election of Obama.
And we really do have hope that many of these old hatreds will not be the hatreds of our children.
Well, we can dream, can't we?

Arminius,

I give up. Again and again, you've shown that you don't recognize racism when you see it. Most recently, you weren't even been able to process a simple definition:

"In the US as in other countries, identifying people by race, nationality, ethnicity, targeting them for assault, and then saying that their "suffering" is the same as anyone else's assumes it is of the same moment, and therefore does not require attention.

Were that still the view in the US, the Civil Rights Movement would have been in vain."

You seem more intent on name-calling and standing your ground, which is quicksand; I suggest you leave it while you can.

I'm not going to drag others into this as you've continually done and which doesn't speak well for you. You owe Farnaz an apology. Nothing will change that. She's always been patient and kind to you, even now.

Again, for her sake, I'm restraining myself, and with that, I'm signing off.

Observer,

Quite frankly, I think you and Farnaz need to offer apologies to those you incorrectly accused of racism. I saw no evidence of racism in what you found offensive. I grew up in the US South, and I know racism when I see it.

Arminius:

I disagree. You were way out of line with Farnaz from beginning to end, and she's always been ultra kind to you. Frankly, she's been kind at times I would have throttled you, and this is one of them.

You owe her an apology. No ifs, ands, or buts. In no way is she to blame for your wretched behavior to her, and it's been abominable. If I were you, I'd apologize, and get on with it.

Observer,

Actually, Farnaz has, in the past few weeks, performed a true Jekyll-Hyde. I simply do not recognize the person that I thought was my friend. I am sorry I am so angry, but I am. I still believe that both of you attacked Sparrow and others unjustly, and I don't understand it. All of your explanations fell flat. It is horribly apparent that this thread will get nowhere now, and we all need a rest. Obviously, I do.

h

Arminius:

You're out of control. Finish your last Guinness and go to bed before you disgrace yourself anymore. When you wake up, apologize to Farnaz. She's always been kind and gracious to you, God knows why. For her sake, alone, I'm restraining myself.

Observer,

You really are one hell of a bastard, are you not?

So, then, in all of your patent self-righteousness, you call me gullible and brainless. What makes you the judge of me?

Yes, I am lashing out at you. But you have directly attacked me and my friends.

Tete futue atque equem in quo vectus es.

Astoria:

Are you now going to post all the awful things Sparrow said to Farnaz? And ask Sparrow to apologize?

Why don't you and Arminius get your own blog to gossip on and spread discord? You're a transparent racist.

Farnaz is right. You should get a life. I disagree with her suggestion that you make it a good one. You're not capable of it. Just try to do less harm.

You owe Farnaz a thousand apologies. You owe an aplogy to Sparrow, as well, since you're only using her and the gullible Arminius to attack Farnaz, and Farnaz is right. Sparrow is astute unlike you. She'll see right through you.

What a pathetic little no one you are.

Dear Observer,

You are very kind. I remember, you, as well, from early on. I recall your sparring with Deb Chatterjee. His posts were driving me insane, and I was cheering you on. At some point, the discourse level, as it were, soared, despite your vastly differing views, and I couldn't stop reading.

I realized that Deb was no fool, as did you, it seemed, but how could one agree with him? I started blogging here, not too long after that.

You have seen, though, have you not, how many have left this site? Or post very infrequently?
Wiglaf, Mr. Mark, Merry Anon, Gerry, Pam, Pseudo, etc.? It's just getting too hostile, low brow, and pointless.

I will miss you, too, dear Observer and I'll look in from time to time. (Remember, UKba is Tunisian, so you'll still have someone to chat with in French!)

Best regards,
Farnaz

Hi, Victoria,

"And no, the subject of this post, in case you missed it- is peace.
Music and the possibility of peace."

Amazing how the Dynamic Duo, in their aggressive posts, have forgotten this. I find no fault with your posts here for sure. Nor with Sparrow's.

Farnaz-
"Why would you assume it would work with someone as astute as Sparrow?"

I am glad you now see sparrow as astute- an apology for your previous statements towards her would seem in order-

"I don't think Sparrow is the brightest light on the block, and she is a bit arrogant, does cross the line, but I don't think she means any harm."

Sparrow,

"You are raving and ranting, and you did the same in your first post to me."

"Sorry, but I don't buy it, and looking at your last post and UKba's, I suspect you may be the same blogger. In your Kimberley identity, you took off on me in much the same way you just did. Observer, sad to say, is right. You are jealous of me, and you are not alone in that. Frankly, I don't understand why, but jealousy is never explainable."

"I'm embarrassed for you, and even worried. Take a breather."

"I don't know if your a self-hating Jew or not. I wonder, along with Observer, if you are even Jewish, and, frankly, I don't care. What troubles me is your lack of self-control, but I'm not a psychiatrist. I suggest you get help."
__________________

Looking at it all in a row like that(and there is more- I just got bored with it)

What part of Westbury is wretchedly poor?

http://maps.google.com/?q=loc%3A+Bennett+Ave+at+192nd+new+york+ny+US

I'm looking for an apartment- but cannot afford the homes in Westbury- maybe you could direct me to the poorer area- it's a lovely place to live.

And no, the subject of this post, in case you missed it- is peace.
Music and the possibility of peace.

And you have shared your education level and experiences many times on these boards. So, I guess I know as much as anyone else.

The point is- you have a choice where you want to live. And your choice is here, in NY.
We all have traumas- some more than others-
no one person or group has a monopoly on suffering, and it is no excuse for mistreating others.

Dear Farnaz,

I wish you'd reconsider severing ties with this blog. I read your comments on Brumberg's thread and have researched the situation in Thailand. It would have flown right by me had it not been for you. You seem to know more about ethnicity, diversity, the world writ large than anybody on this blog.

Congratulations on your grant. You're also one of the few people here who actively tries to help others, even at their own expense. The fact that there are such people here should entice you to stay.

I do think your reply to Arminius is too gracious. You've always cut him slack, assumed he has a good heart, even defended him. Is there anything defensible in his last post to you?

Anyway, good luck to you, my friend. I remember when you first started blogging here. I'll miss you if you stay away.

Observer

Farnaz and Observer,

This is all utter horse poop. What the bloody hell is wrong with recognizing someone's race, creed, country, ethnic origin, sexual preference, political leaning, or choice of vegetables?

I am American, of Scots-Irish descent, a honkey, an Episcopalian, a liberal, and damned proud of all of it. Anybody at all can accuse me of being any of the above, and I will thank them. If that tends to disturb the chips on your shoulders, then by damn to hell, that is your problem, not mine.

What the hell do you have to be so defensive about?

Arminius-

Ditto. Have a good life. You ain't much in the brains department to ask such a foolish question. Farnaz's reply was way too polite.

Arminius:

In the US as in other countries, identifying people by race, nationality, ethnicity, targeting them for assault, and then saying that their "suffering" is the same as anyone else's assumes it is of the same moment, and therefore does not require attention.

Were that still the view in the US, the Civil Rights Movement would have been in vain.

Have a good life.

Farnaz, you wrote,

"Astoria: And no one suffers more deeply or feels pain more keenly becuase they are an atheist, or Ethipian, or Jew.

Farnaz: This is too racist for me to reply to."

ME: just exactly how the hell was Astoria's reply 'racist'? I think you are reading that into her words. You are out of line.

Astoria-

Should I take my cue from you, and accuse you and Arminius of being the same person? False accusations aren't my thing, nor are they the thing of any of the world religions.

Give it a rest, Astoria. Get a life, and make it a good one.

Astoria: "Farnaz will probably report me for offensive cmments- because that has been happening whn I've come here lately- so I cannot respond-Which is why I have hardly been around."

Farnaz: I've never reported you to anyone for anything. Why would I bother? You, however, continually bother me with false accusations, false allegations, posts which I'd stopped answering. Here I make one last exception.

Astoria:I have had some minor disagreements with sparrow, and even Arminius, but the unprovoked attacks on sparrow seem beyond the pale

Farnaz: This is a very typical ploy of yours, to allign yourself with others against one you have targeted, in this case, me. It generally doesn't work since people see through you. Why would you assume it would work with someone as astute as Sparrow?

Astoria: You got nuthin on me sister-
If you want to compare childhood traumas, believe me- I trump yours by 5 times.

Farnaz: You know next to nothing about my childhood, only what is relevant to the politics of the Middle East, which is under discussion on this blog.

Astoria: And no one suffers more deeply or feels pain more keenly becuase they are an atheist, or Ethipian, or Jew.

Farnaz: This is too racist for me to reply to.

Astoria: You have received a fine education, live in a splendid suburb in Westbury- and have every opportunity and comfort.

Farnaz: You know nothing of my education.
Westbury IS a suburb, and hence does not contain suburbs. It is also in Long Island. Some parts of Westbury are wretchedly poor, some wealthy.
Anyone who lives in Astoria would know that. Interestingly, in the past, you thought Westbury was in Brooklyn.

More to the point: I DO NOT LIVE IN WESTBURY, AS ANYONE, INCLUDING YOU, WHO READS THIS BLOG KNOWS. HOWEVER, I'M AFFILIATED WITH THE ISLAMIC CENTER THERE.

And what do know of my economic circumstances? You actually should know something since you read Brumberg's thread and I mentioned that we have very little.

Instead you jump to racist conclusions. This isn't your first racist post, and it won't be your last.

In closing, I did not post to you, and will not be posting as often, if at all, after today. Under no circumstances will I post to you. From now, on you can carry on your conversations with your deluded, racist self.

Have a good life.

Hi, Victoria, you said,
"read most of the posts here- and it was a long and unpleasant read-
I have had some minor disagreements with sparrow, and even Arminius, but the unprovoked attacks on sparrow seem beyond the pale.
But, if we let only the loud haters and accusers voice their negativity, it seems like the only voices around-
and they are not."

ME: I completely agree. This particular blog nearly drove me off. Sparrow got excoriated without much cause at all.

Hell, I get out of line myself on occasion. If warranted, I apologize. Otherwise I try to keep a civil tone. But it seems that the voices of bigots and fools have taken over these blogs, and the good minds are so disgusted that they leave.

oops- incomplete thought- although I have had mild disagreements- I have found sparrow to be a gentle and mannerly soul- with good intentions.
Not a patsy, to be tromped on, but intelligent and thoughtful.

Farnaz- You got nuthin on me sister-
If you want to compare childhood traumas, believe me- I trump yours by 5 times.

The point is not that you, or I, or anyone for that matter has suffered- every human alive suffers.
And no one suffers more deeply or feels pain more keenly becuase they are an atheist, or Ethipian, or Jew.

What matters is not the suffering itself- but how we react to that suffering- if it develops our own compassion as deeply as the pain we felt-
so that we are more sensitive to the pain of others and their conditions-
or we let it fester into a cancerous self-centeredanger that ossifies into a self-righteous bitterness where we feel we must diminish all others experiences and magnify our own importance, and feel entitled to spread more suffering around.

You brandish an event that happened to you 29 years ago like some broken badge of opporession that you feel can justify any bad behavior now.
It doesn't.

You have received a fine education, live in a splendid suburb in Westbury- and have every opportunity and comfort.

You have a family, and every chance to make your life, and those lives around you an expression of gratitude for the life, liberty and happiness that is yours for the taking.

I read most of the posts here- and it was a long and unpleasant read-
I have had some minor disagreements with sparrow, and even Arminius, but the unprovoked attacks on sparrow seem beyond the pale.
But, if we let only the loud haters and accusers voice their negativity, it seems like the only voices around-
and they are not.

Farnaz will probably report me for offensive cmments- because that has been happening whn I've come here lately- so I cannot respond-
Which is why I have hardly been around.

But at least I got to voice my own dismay over the off-topic vitriol expressed.

Mr. Patel, thanks for this story and the hope it inspires.

Penman-"So far, all that you've had from Jews, despite what you've done to them, is a welcoming hand. That same hand, if pushed too far, could turn out like the Christians' hands, like the Muslims' hands, carrying hand grenades. It's happened before."

Yes, it has. If what's happened and continues to happen in Mumbai doesn't do it, I don't know what will. Could be Jews and Hindus will make good bedfellows.

The difference Mr. Patel, between Israeli settlers and Palestinian terrorists, has I believe been made clear to you. That your post seeking to divide African Americans and Jews was transparent is also clear.

Now we see Americans dead in Mumbai, courtesy of your co-religionists: Americans, Indian Hindus and Muslims, and Englishmen. Did I forget the Jewish Center?

I wonder what makes you think that what goes round should not come round. Right now the strongest anti-Islamic sentiment rests with Christians. They have blogs all over the webs.

So far, all that you've had from Jews, despite what you've done to them, is a welcoming hand. That same hand, if pushed too far, could turn out like the Christians' hands, like the Muslims' hands, carrying hand grenades. It's happened before.

And you, Mr. Patel, will be left with little b*ches like marcedward. Will you feel comfortable, I wonder.

Dear Dr Patel

Happy Thanksgiving Day to you and all your loved and near ones!

Soja John Thaikattil
Sydney, Australia

Farnaz,

You write

MarcEdward,
You are a simple racist of Christian descent

I think "simpleton" is more like it, but you're on the mark with "boorish." He was given a book by a famous author whose name he didn't recognize, then claimed he wasn't given citations. He evidently doesn't know what a citation is. He missed the link as well.

Hope you won't leave. Dumb racists are everywhere. Good people aren't. Ignore him. He'll crawl back under his rock.

MarcEdward,

You are a simple racist of Christian descent, and probably you do have literacy problems.

Oriana Fallaci's book is instructive in many respects as anyone literate knows. But then everyone knows about Arafat's predilictions and you know nothing of him at all, absolutely nothing. Mane-calling him accomplishes nothing. He was not nearly so simple as you suggest.

I repeat. He was not personally corrupt. That is a fact.

You were given a link on Iranian Jews by observer. It is simple-minded as he says, but I really am signing off, partly to get away from the one or two racists like you.

You are a simple Christian racist, nothing more. Your type is instantly recognizable. Having proven yourself as such, you win.

You win against all standards of common decency. If I am wrong, I shall see. Observer says he will check back on you on Monday. By then you should know much more.

If not you win. You win against whatever hope there may have been for you. You are no Muslim, no Hindu, no Bahai. You are a simple boorish Christian racist. Very simple.

Still, I wish you peace.

Farnaz2 writes
'Hello Observer,'

talking to yourself is a sign of madness.

'He is no Muslim. First, most Muslims, almost all from the Middle East know about Arafat's homosexuality (pedofilia?) and his penchant for blond Tunisian adolescents.'

What a silly lie, and so obviously a lie. Arafat was a cold blooded killer, a jerk, and a failed leader. It isn't enough for you that he had the chance to give 'his people' a land of their own, you have to try to peg him as 'gay' or 'a pedaphile'. It's just over the top and doesn't pass the smell test. And of course, you have no evidence. You come across as some sort of zealot and a bit of a liar.

'Observer, Mark is a simple racist of Christian descent'

Namecalling is rather silly. Are you 12 years old or what?

'I shall not be returning to this blog for awhile.'

Having been proven a liar and probably a racist I guess you'll just return as 'observer' and agree with yourself.

Hello Observer,

You are very gallant! But you need not worry. I assure you I can take care of myself. You are right about MarkEdaward. He is no Muslim. First, most Muslims, almost all from the Middle East know about Arafat's homosexuality (pedofilia?) and his penchant for blond Tunisian adolescents. Asian Muslims at least know about his homosexuality, that the marriage to Suhat was a sham, done in haste, and why.

NO Muslim would argue against that. Middle Eastern and Asian Mulsims know about that semi-feudalism is still extant in parts of Palestine. Everyone knows of the murder of Arafat's nephew. Also, a Muslim would simply not be so boorish. Neither would a Hindu. (No offense.)

The thing I wonder is how you seem to know so much. You say you are a former Catholic, and some of your posts show a knowledge way beyond that which someone who is not Catholic would have.
French is your native language...May I ask where you are from?

Btw., It turns out that Ukba is Tunisian.
Quelle coïncidence, mon ami. I love Tunisian French as you know. We had a lovely chat on Brumberg's thread, but in English.

Observer, Mark is a simple racist of Christian descent (no offense) Do not trouble yourself about him. I do not believe he can change, but one never knows.

I shall not be returning to this blog for awhile. I am sorry my friend, but I have a great deal to do. This grant will change lives, and this blog will probably not.

I shall look in from time to time, and I will miss you!

Have a wonderful holiday!

Farnaz

Farnaz2 writes
'Last post:'

Yeah, I guess you're just gonna post and run away - or switch to your sockpuppet Observer.

'God willing the Israelis and Palestinians will have peace, will live in two states'

Actually it will happen. In 1000 years nobody will know Israel ever existed. The Isrealis have to force people into their army to fight for their country, while the Palestinians are happy to die for the same land. Educated Isrealis want to leave Isreal, while the Palestinians are among the most prolific people on earth. There is no reason to suspect that Israel will be around in 200 years, especially if our country stops tossing good money after bad giving welfare to Israel.
Have a nice thanksgiving!

What's Observer's problem?
What is he supposed to represent?
He tells me to look up crap on Arafat, whom I already made clear I had no use for.
I think Observer is kind of a loutmouthed coward who likes to call names from behind his wal-mart monitor. He's less coherent than that spider-mean fool. I've never seen a weaker writer on the Internet, period!

observer12 writes
MarcEdward:
'One of the best discussions of Arafat's penchant for young blond boys is Interview with History by Oriana Falaccis'

As usual, no citation, no quote, nothing. Must suck to have nothing to back up your ideas, whatever they are!
LOL

'Checkmate, A.hole.'

As usual, all you do is call names and provide nothing. Your name calling and infantile language proves that you know nothing and have no evidence to back up whatever it is your opinion is supposed to be. Your posts are so empty that I don't even know what your point of view is supposed to be. You lack the wit and maturity to even be polite. Whatever religion you represent you only make look worse!
LOL
You lose again!

game
set
match!
LOL

And who is today's largest group of religious racists??

The 800 million Sunni Muslims whose hate of the 200 million Shiite Muslims borders on the Nazi's hate of the Jews.

To wit:

From: http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/02/03/iraq.cleric.ap/index.html

"Al-Sistani was apparently referring to Abdullah bin Jabrain, a key member of Saudi Arabia's clerical establishment, who last month joined a chorus of other senior figures from the hardline Wahhabi school of Sunni Islam that regards Shiites as infidels.

Bin Jabrain described Shiites as "the most vicious enemy of Muslims."

And why are our troops still in Iraq? The 24/7 blood-letting, "refugee making" civil war between the Muslim Sunnis supported by the Saudi Arabia "Wannabees" and the Muslim Shiites supported by the terror theocracy of Iran whose significantly stupid ancient koranic feud continues over whose "spiritual leader" is the direct descendent of one hallucinating, womanizing, warmongering Arab named Mohammed!!!

MarcEdward:

One of the best discussions of Arafat's penchant for young blond boys is Interview with History by Oriana Falaccis, which also contains an interview with Arafat. It is written in simple Englsih which even a semi-literate, name-calling bigoted fool like you can read.

Kindly inform me of which Palestinian newspapers you read, and I'll tell you where to find more recent on Arafat. On Palestinians murdered and tortured by Hamas and the Arafat gang, there are many sources of info., but I will post names for you on Monday, just for you, A. hole (not name-calling, just description.

Slander doesn't make arguments, and that is all you've provided.

Here is a link that even someone as iliterate as you should be able to follow. Not name-calling, just describing. You are illiterate, and you are a liar, and a bigot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution

This is a simple-minded and inaccurate link, but will provide a moron (simply describing) like your stupid self with a starting point. Then A-hole you can tell us about the thirteen Jews just hanged in Iran.

Pig, when you're done, do look up the Bahai at the UN website, and do look up Thaksin, both of whom do not exist according to your cretin logic.

Checkmate, A.hole.

You lose, but then you lost at birth, having been born brain dead. So did your poor parents who had the misfortune to give you to the world.

I'll expect you to have read Falacci and the stupid wikepedia link by Mday.

One thing I know about you, A.hole, is that you're not Muslim, and you're not Hindu. Sad for you people, really.

Your last chance for salvation may be for you to reach out and do something for another, someone like me, against whom you are prejudiced. If you are racist beyond hope, then I can only hope and pray that you harm no one.

Shalom

Farnaz2 writes
'you may have a chance at self-edification'

Always happy to learn.

'Arafat spent little money on himself, a lot on his blond little boyfriends'

Arafat was a pig and a fool. Implying he was gay seems rather silly, but feel free to submit your proof. I bet you have none.

'"When did that happen"? I have posted numerous bibliographies on this blog on the deportation, torturing, killing of Jews in the MIddle East.'

Never seen it. Feel free to post it, but I doubt it's as widespread as you say, given your clearly false allegation that Arafat and blond boys. Anybody who studies history knows that Jews and Arabs got along pretty well for centuries. Islam is much more tolorant of other religions than Christianity.

'but the plight of the three million is known by literate people, which, Mark Edward, you are not'

Feel free to provide citations.

'Not name-calling'

Yeah you are, but I expect it's the best you can do.
Oh, and I read your other posts. No evidence, little more than name calling. I didn't know anybody handed out grants for calling names.
I expect most of your claims have no source and you are a liar. Your claims are very non-specific and lacking in any kind of backing.

Assertions without evidence = nothing
game
set
match
You lose again liar.

Garak and Mark,

Last post: God willing the Israelis and Palestinians will have peace, will live in two states. The Palestinians will get out of the hell holes of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc., of which neither of you know anything. I do.

I work with Palestinians, with the current patriarch of one of the wealthiest Palestinan families who owns a great deal of property here and elsewhere. Not only with him of course, but when you want peace, you make strange acquanitances.

Do something for someone, preferably someone of an ethnic group like mine, one that you are prejudiced against.

Take a moral leap and nurture your souls.

Peace to you both. Shalom

Mark and Garak continued

All over the web, if you can't find my numerous bibliographies you will find documentation on the deportation, killing, etc., of Middle Eastern Jews, etc. Why wasn't it on the front page of the New York Times? We've answered that question. Neither directly nor indirectly do we have access to oil.

What have you read about the Israeli orphans--African, European, Middle Eastern? In the NOrth?

But simply because you haven't bothered to read the massive amounts of information available and use the bibliographies available on this web doesn't mean my documented plight and that of the three million didn't "happen." It just means you're lazy, ignorant, and don't take the extra step to inform yourself.

You also know nothing about the Thai situation or the Bahai or the Palestinian Christians or the Ethopian Jews or the Ugandan Jews, etc.
You've both, you and Garak already established that, and I'll be happy to post you on both.

Egypt and its Palestinians?

The Palestinians had an opportunity to form a state long before 1967. How come they didn't?

How come when they were just about to have one during the Clinton administration, they, instead, started an Intifada?

How come you obviously didn't read Obsrver's post, or you wouldn't be asking some of the questions you are?

You are sniveling, bigoted brats, who can't even google. You've never seen what I have and you never will, I hope to God. I do hope you reach moral maturity. If you are what we Jews, the Palestinian Christians and Muslims all over the Middle East, Middle Eastern Christians, Jews, the Bahai, the Thai, are what we have to rely on two armchair name-calling whining crybaby ignorant bigots, we are in trouble indeed.

I've received the grant Observer mentions. I will be able to help people on a non-sectarian basis. I'm working to keep the Thai and Bahai from mass murder. I have many Muslims from all over the world as my friends. See my posts for the last year and on Brumberg's blog.

What do you have? Bigotry. No name-calling, just fact.

I wish you moral and intellectual growth, an end to your racism, actual vision. Do something to help someone. Even if it's the least thing, it matters.

Shalom

MarK and Garek,

These are my last posts on this blog for awhile, so if you can stop whining for a bit and actually read, you may have a chance at self-edification.

Arafat spent little money on himself, a lot on his blond little boyfriends, on his "wife" who stole from the mouths of the Palestininan people. This has been well publicized. The slaughter of his corrupt nephew has been covered and you can find it online. Arafat style justice, torture, returning people in body bags for suspected crimes, the theft of funds meant for the people by his cronies, all documented.

Documented: Egypts ignoring of Gaza, leaving the people to starve, for decades, and deporting them to Gaza, Palistinians that is in 1948.

"When did that happen"? I have posted numerous bibliographies on this blog on the deportation, torturing, killing of Jews in the MIddle East. It is true that it received little publicity as did the emptying out of Jews from numerous countries after Peristroyka, but the plight of the three million is known by literate people, which, Mark Edward, you are not. Not name-calling, just fact. The horror began in the 1920s, accelerated in the 1940s, and speeded up after the Iranian Revolution.

It's ironic how Hitler's treatment of the Jews pre-final solution is so like the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians. It's ironic that some Isrealis cannot fathom Palestinian resentment of the zionists when the zionist forces helped the Brits crush the Palestinian rebellion against foreign rule.
In Palestine/Israel there are no saints, no good guys. I wish our government would stop giving welfare money to Israel until they accept a 2 state or 1 state solution with some real justice.

Farnaz2:

Why should the Egyptians take in the Palestinians? Egypt didn't expel them from their homeland. Israel did. Put Arafat in Gaza? How about terrorists like the IDF officers who ordered 1 million cluster bombs dropped on Lebanon as peace started to break out? Or the descendants of the Zionists who pulled off Dier Yassin? The ones who later became Prime Ministers of Israel? Ben Gurion, Shamir, Begin, Sharon...the list includes just about every PM of Israel, and most of the Knesset. And let's no forget the IDF troops caught on tape brutalizing Palestinian civilians.

No gas chambers in Gazauschwitz? Israel doesn't need them. Israel is starving them to death. Gazauschwitz is turning into the death sentence without need of Zyklon B. No power in hospitals, no food, rampant malnutrition, just like Israel wants. The Final Solution to The Palestinian Problem.

Your perverted, intellectually filthy self does have one good idea--put The Israel Lobby in there.

Saying that Gazauschwitz is a paradise is barbaric and beyond me, but evidently not beyond you.

observer12 writes
'I promised myself I'd stop blogging to morons but will make an exception in your case'

Wow, what a pathetic and limp flame.

'I've never heard Farnaz "whine" as you accuse her of doing'

Calling somebody a racist for having a poor knowledge of history is rather silly. Calling somebody a racist because they post the racist rants of some Isrealis is whining.

'Do you expect her to like it that she along with three million other Middle Eastern Jews was dispossed'

Not sure what you are talking about. When and where did this happen?

'You bigoted, whining, twit. Grow up.'

Another ignorant and whining attempt at a flame. No wonder nobody likes you in real life.

From Wikipedia:

Iran

"Iran has what is perhaps the second- or third-largest Bahá'í population. Estimates for the early twenty-first century vary between 150,000 and 500,000. During the Iranian Revolution of 1979 and the subsequent few years, a significant number of Bahá'ís fled the country during intensive persecution. Estimates before and after the revolution vary greatly.

Eliz Sanasarian writes in Religious Minorities in Iran (Cambridge University Press, 2000, p. 53) that "Estimating the number of Bahá'ís in Iran has always been difficult due to their persecution and strict adherence to secrecy. The reported number of Bahá'ís in Iran has ranged anywhere from the outrageously high figure of 500,000 to the low number of 150,000.

The number 300,000 has been mentioned most frequently, especially for the mid- to late- 1970's, but it is not reliable. Roger Cooper gives an estimate of between 150,000 and 300,000."

The Encyclopedia of the Modern Middle East and North Africa (2004) states that "In Iran, by 1978, the Bahá'í community numbered around 300,000."

The Columbia Encyclopedia (5th edition, 1993) reports that "Prior to the Iranian Revolution there were about 1 million Iranian Bahá'ís."

The Encyclopedia of Islam (new edition, 1960) reports that "In Persia, where different estimates of their number vary from more than a million down to about 500,000. [in 1958]"
At times the authorities in Iran have claimed that there are no Bahá'ís in their country, and that the persecutions were made up by the CIA.

The first claim apparently represents a legal rather than anthropological determination, as Bahá'ís are regarded as Muslims under Iranian law. For the latter, see Persecution of Bahá'ís.
"

marcedward1 :
Farnaz2 writes
'an explanation and apology for this, your post of ten short days ago:
"Consider America during World War II, fighting across Europe to free the Jews while its own swimming pools and water fountains were segregated."

antisemitic how? You come across as rather hysterical.

Marc Edward,
I promised myself I'd stop blogging to morons but will make an exception in your case. Borrow a little grey matter from a friend or neighbor and then try substituting the word Europeans for the word Jews.

I've never heard Farnaz "whine" as you accuse her of doing. Do you expect her to like it that she along with three million other Middle Eastern Jews was dispossed, that she witnessed torture and murder, that she was raped in this country by a christian thug, that her daughter had her teeth knocked out by catholic girl thugs?

Well? Do you expect her to like the fact that the one million Bahai in Iran are nearing desperation which the UN has "noted"?

See her post on Blumberg's thread. She just got an award, one she's posted about having applied for to provide social welfare for the needy on a non-sectarian basis.

You bigoted, whining, twit. Grow up.

Marc,

Check the conclusions of Karen Armstrong (On Faith panelist and history of religion exegete) as she notes many times in her books that Mahound was illiterate.

With respect to the illiteracy of the simple preacher man:

See Professor Bruce Chilton's commentary in his book, Rabbi Jesus, An Intimate Biography, pp 99-101- An excerpt:

"What Luke misses is that Jesus stood in the synagogue as an illiterate mamzer in his claim to be the Lord's anointed."

See also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus for an analysis of Jesus' life to include his illiteracy.

It is very unfortunate that Jesus was illiterate for it resulted in many gospels and epistles being written years after his death by non-witnesses. This resulted in significant differences in said gospels and epistles and with many embellishments to raise Jesus to the level of a deity to compete with the Roman gods and emperors. See also Raymond Brown's 878 page book, An Introduction to the New Testament, (Luke 4:16 note on p. 237) for an exhaustive review of the true writers of the gospels and epistles.

Wow! I must have singed in late. The Spewl and counter spewl is all over the place :)

Daniel Barenboim is a prime example of the good in humanity. All children are indoctrinated by their parents.

Thats why Israeli kids grew up thinking all Arabs want to kill them and Israel is rightfully theirs to inherit, while all Arab kids grow up thinking Israel is the scourge of this earth and needs to be wiped out

Thats why Republicans beget Republicans and Dems beget Dems (for the most part) and Red sox fans beget Red Sox fans, etc..

Then occassionally there come along men (or women) of substance like Mr. Daniel Barenboim who provide the kids with an alternative, objective viewpoint.

Hope in humanity is sustained. Once again..

Hey CCNL
Explain how we know as a historical fact that Jesus or Muhammed were illiterate?

On an aside, I agree with you that we have no idea as to the accuracy of the NT (or for that matter the Quran). On the other hand there are useful things in the NT (at least the 4 gospals) and the Quran (the first rules of war for example).
You might also agree with my position that I have no use for the 'organized' part of oranized religion, and I have no faith or trust in those institutions.
Later :-)

Farnaz2 writes
'an explanation and apology for this, your post of ten short days ago:
"Consider America during World War II, fighting across Europe to free the Jews while its own swimming pools and water fountains were segregated."'

Obviously whomever posted that the USA went to war to save European Jews was misinformed. An ignorant statement certainly, but how is it racist?

'the US did not enter WWII until December 10, 1941, knew about the death camps shortly after they were in use, and knew about the concentration camps, the slaughters all over Europe, from the outset. NOt only did they keep it from the American public with help from the New York Times, but during the War refused to bomb the tracks leading to concentration camps.'

How would 'bombing the tracks that lead to concentration camps' have been in our interest? Daytime bombing raids were disasterous to American bombers, and I somehow doubt it'd be easy to hit train tracks at night. Strategic bombing is supposed to be for the war effort after all.

'is surely the case is that you intended in your post to be divisive and antisemitic.'

antisemitic how? You come across as rather hysterical.

Marc, Marc, Marc,

Hmmm, you are the one who believes in what "facts"??

Some facts taken from the works of various NT exegetes:

Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/Works_Cited

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Current crises:

Pedophiliac priests, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Current crises:

Adulterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology

captn_ahab writes
'Where are the leading Arab artists and musicians reaching out to Israelis and their cultural institutions?'

For goodness sakes do your own research - you can even use google.com if you have the brains.

sparrow4 writes
'ccnl- we've all seen it. You post that drek every chance you get'

CCNL can rival a Taliban for it's zealotry, no? CCNL of course is rather ignorant of history. All it's posts are the same pasted crud, and CCNL lacks the wit to debate it's 'facts' which are in dispute. Arguing with CCNL is like trying to teach a pig to sing IMO.

Farnaz2, I'm not sure what your point is to be putting up really off topic crap like what Eboo posted 10 days ago. More to the point, you don't seem to get there is a difference between 'jew' and 'Isreali'. Jews have gotten along with Arabs and Muslims for centuries. Islam has treated the Jews far better than the Christians in Europe ever did. Expecting Palestinians to be happy that their homes and towns were stolen and destroyed by Zionists from outside the region is just stupid.
Also, if you have the wit to use google.com you can find arabs and jews working together. Now stop whining - it's pathetic.

Arminius,

Sorry, but this is the post that began it all (scroll down):

Roosevelt, however- that's a tale. Still it seems that there is nothing Mr. Patel can post that won't infuriate you.

Your last line to Mr. Patel to beware- that sounds like a threat and crosses a line.

November 24, 2008 7:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
_______________________

These words constitute an attack. As I mentioned, she has every right to disagree with me on my views concerning Patel's unfortunate comments, but if one offends others, one must be prepared for a response. The above from Sparrow is offensive, an ill-deserved attack on me.

Sorry you felt compelled to get involved. I tried to keep you out of this.

Take care.

Farnaz

EBOO,

Part of the problem is that your many critics on that thread, i.e., those who took strenuous exception to your racist and divisive comments about Americans fighting across Europe to "free Jews" (!!!) have simply signed off his blog, as I I shall do.

I don't even know if you read these threads, although some of your posts indicate that you may. If you've read the last few, you know you've been given tactful ways out by other bloggers (sorry if I was "misinterpreted"--blah, blah, and blah, but you have chosen not to take them, suggesting that you were not misinterpreted and wish to let stand your unfortunate remarks. At all events, for me, nothing less than a full, honest apology would do.

Sparrow,

One last post here for 6-7 days. I'm fine with what you said about me, and I agree that Eboo is not a racist. I think you were unfairly attacked. Take care, friend, I'll be back.

Arminius writes:

"the totally out of control piss fight between some other posters, it's time to say goodbye for a while. Back in a week. I won't miss it."

Ditto, except I don't know when I'll be back. Take care Arminius, Observer12, et al.

Garak :
captn_ahab wrote:

"Where are the leading Arab artists and musicians reaching out to Israelis and their cultural institutions?"

"They're in Gazauschwitz and can't get out."

Got a better idea. Let's put the Egyptian government there, since they're the ones that keep the Palestinians in Gaza and always have, even before 1948, at which point they also deported many Palestinian Egyptians, sending them to the Gaza Strip. Let's also put the Palestinian authorities there, you know, the ones descended from Arafat and his blond boyfriends, like, for example, Arafat's nephew, the filthy rich corrupt ones like so many in the Palestinian "authority."

I'd never in my life suggest gassing them, though. I leave filthy suggestions like that to the likes of your perverted self.

I'd never suggest gassing anyone, not the murderous Iranian Revolutionary Guard, who murdered my family's friend Ismael in front of my eyes, when I was a child, who tortured countless Jews and Muslims to death, not the Middle East nations who put three million of us Jews in exile, who persecute the few remaining Jews, Christians, and the million-plus Bahai, the Hindus, Kurds, animists to this day.

Suggesting sending anyone to Auschwitz is barbaric and quite beyond me, although as you show, not beyond you.

Let's put The Israel Lobby there. That would be truly refreshing.

History, Reality and Common Sense are sometimes things people cannot deal with.

arminius, I certainly apologize to you. My quoting you wasn't to involve you but to point out that I was not the only one saying Patel is not a racist. For stating that, I was grossly attacked and the rest is history. Anyone reading the timeline in order can see that. I do fight back hard- but in this we agree-my interest in On faith has flatlined. Have a good life.

My interest in this blog has flatlined. Between Bun-Bun's nonsense and bigotry, and the totally out of control piss fight between some other posters, it's time to say goodbye for a while. Back in a week. I won't miss it.

Growning up in suburban america with our opinions given to us, the lyrics of rock and pop musicians questioned those assumptions about world politics that we weren't supposed to question.

Once in a Lifetime, Talking Heads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYbUCvz1LYE

Rock the Casbah, The Clash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAkfHShATKY

captn_ahab wrote:

"Where are the leading Arab artists and musicians reaching out to Israelis and their cultural institutions?"

They're in Gazauschwitz and can't get out.

Let's put The Israel Lobby there. That would be truly refreshing.

Sparrow-

maybe get a better handle on your English comprehension skills

But perhaps people whose first language is not English wouldn't get all the nuances of the language.
_____________

So on top of everything else, you are a xenophobe. Why am I not surprised? Who do you think you are? Ugh! The stench.

Who do you think you are to say who can and cannot blog? Who do you think you are to insult others with abandon and then think they're going to buy into your pathetic excuses and accusations?

Who do you think you are to try to foment discord among bloggers, dragging Arminius into this?

Farnaz, I and many others think Patel's remarks were racist. You can think whatever you want, but if you start insulting people, don't be surprised if they fire back.

Xenophobia, telling people they shouldn't blog, fomenting discord among bloggers, dragging in poor Arminius...GET HELP.

Sparrow,

I guess you didn't write this either:

"maybe get a better handle on your English comprehension skills"

This is simply the last in a line of indefensible comments you made beginning with the closing line of your first post to me. If you meant to warn me that what I'd written could be misconstrued, you would have said so in your initial post. Moreover, you knew it was offensive since you chose to comment on after the fact, but before I'd even mentioned it.

Develop a little self-awareness. Take it easy, and calm down. You've said some horrible things, and can't seem to control yourself.

I'm outta here, and I suggest you take a breather.

Farnaz

And farnaz- I am ashamed of you.

Sparrow,

I'm embarrassed for you, and even worried. Take a breather.

I've got to go.

Take care.

Farnaz

observer- do you have any idea how ridiculous that response is? How do you even know? He didn't address it to you. So grow up, and stop acting like a kid in high school. Next time take the time to read what people actually say before you shoot off your mouth (maybe get a better handle on your English comprehension skills). And now I'm done with you as well. I'm sure you and farnaz will carry on with the insults and mutual butt-kissing. Have at it.

and I guess what you and observer said wasn't horrible? You have no self-awareness at all. I was trying to point out to you that your last comment could be misconstrued. Meaning I know you didn't mean to imply you would go after him, but it could be read that way. You're entitled to believe Mr. Patel is racist, I'm entitled to believe he's not. That was no insult to you, just a disagreement of opinion. Yet you and observer chose to make it something else.

You accused me of posting as other people, you called me stupid, agreed with your little buddy that I am a self-hating Jew if I am a Jew at all, and you refuse to let anyone disagree with your exalted opinions- why be surprised when they push back?

I guess you feel it's all right to dish it out but you can't take it. and now I am done. I also have far better things to do.

Sparrow:

And yes, arminius wrote: "I must agree with Sparrow - I see no racism in Eboo's posts, any of them. I do see misunderstanding of history, to a degree. I think his obvious optimism leads him astray from time to time. I read him as a good person. Try gently correcting, instead of ranting."

Arminius wrote this to me, not to Farnaz. If you want to provoke quarrels between other bloggers, if attacking others on your own isn't enough for you, you'll have to look elsewhere. Get help.

Sparrow,

"Your last line to Mr. Patel to beware- that sounds like a threat and crosses a line."

Yes, you did start it, and the above is how. You started it, and I'm going to end it right now. I've got work to do, and this is pointless. You've said horrible things to me.

And you have no right to tell me or anyone else not to blog here. And I do mean anyone. There are all kinds of people who post here, racists among them. In fact, a couple of really brilliant bloggers, Mr. Mark, among them, Wiglaf, and others, stopped blogging here as a result, but they never told a single one of the racists they shouldn't blog. Some of us are above that.

I'm ending this right here and right now. I believe Patel's comments were racist. Other bloggers did, as well. You may not think so, and that is your right. You may also be uncivil if you choose to be; however, you cannot expect that such behavior will be without consequence.

Bonne nuit, Sparrow.

this was my post:"

Sorry farnaz2- I don't interpret Eboo's remark about WW II as racist and I fail to see why you are so angry with him. While I think it would be a real stretch (to the point of breaking) to say the US went to war for us Jews, the point he was making was more about segregation here. The US talked a great deal about freedom and hell under Hitler, but the military discriminated shamefully against black-American soldiers, let alone Black-Americans in general.

Roosevelt, however- that's a tale. Still it seems that there is nothing Mr. Patel can post that won't infuriate you.

Your last line to Mr. Patel to beware- that sounds like a threat and crosses a line."

Now how this becomes me being a self-hating Jew or a rant against farnaz only a seriously insecure person would think. Her last comment to Mr. Patel did sound threatening and could easily be misconstrued. But perhaps people whose first language is not English wouldn't get all the nuances of the language.

And yes, arminius wrote: "I must agree with Sparrow - I see no racism in Eboo's posts, any of them. I do see misunderstanding of history, to a degree. I think his obvious optimism leads him astray from time to time. I read him as a good person. Try gently correcting, instead of ranting."

Too bad if you don't like the truth but there it is.

Farnaz,

Did you catch this?

"You have no problems posting your often venal and obscenity laden opinions. I simply dared to disagree with you (as did Arminius)."

The little Sparrow twit is trying to goad you into getting into it with Arminius. What a piece of work.

"I don't think Sparrow is the brightest light on the block, and she is a bit arrogant, does cross the line, but I don't think she means any harm. Does she do any of the sort you mention? Hard to say."

And what was this? I didn't start it. You and observer did. As I said you'll believe what you want. But before you accuse me of being out of control you need to go back and reread what you've written. Not just to me but to others.

You need to look in the mirror yourself because from what I see, you are also posting as observer and having a conversation with yourself. Some people will do anything to make themselves look good, I understand, but honestly Farnaz, this isn't doing it for you.

v

Sparrow, you write:

Your last line to Mr. Patel to beware- that sounds like a threat and crosses a line.
*************************
Oh look- trying to impress us with french. I realize you think you're dripping with scorn and are ever so much more sophisticated than the rest of us.It's nice to see two people who have such a high self-regard. Well, I guess when you're not getting it from others, you just have to do it yourself.
**************************
Or better yet, don't post on the blogs. They're here for dialogue and you are far too paranoid and thin-skinned (your french buddy suffers from cranio-rectal disease). You have no problems posting your often venal and obscenity laden opinions. I simply dared to disagree with you (as did Arminius). But hey- this is what freedom of speech is all about.
*************************
Sparrow,

You are way out of control, and way out of line. I could cut and paste more, and would if there were any point. I will not demean myself by addressing your despicable comments, but will say that you have no right to tell anyone whether they should or should not blog anywhere. Yes, you definitely are Kimberley, and probably are Ukba.

I don't know if your a self-hating Jew or not. I wonder, along with Observer, if you are even Jewish, and, frankly, I don't care. What troubles me is your lack of self-control, but I'm not a psychiatrist. I suggest you get help.
__________________

Observer,
Ne répondez pas s'il vous plaît au Moineau. S'IL VOUS PLAÎT.

Farnaz

jealous? Of farnaz2? ROTFLMAO!! are you 2 married? You sure sound like you are- you suffer from the same delusions of grandeur. It's just amazing.

I guess I'll get over myself when you get over yourself. Judging by the size of your vastly overinflated ego, I have until doomsday.

Farnaz2- Now I think, no, now I know you are totally paranoid. I have never ever posted as anyone other than sparrow4. I really don't give a damn if you believe it or not but that's the truth. I have no idea who kimberly is, and Iam not Ukba. If anyone told you you had no right to speak because you were an immigrant- it wasn't me.

I could care less if observer's 1st language is french, or if he speaks 12 languages including martian. Both you and he, without reason attacked me and insulted my faith, called me a self-hating Jew, disparaged my intelligence (which I assure you after reading some of the garbage you've thrown out as "commentary" is far higher than either of yours), and now accuse me of being several other people. But i will say it is rude to converse on an english-speaking blog in another language. Get a room, as we say.

Or better yet, don't post on the blogs. They're here for dialogue and you are far too paranoid and thin-skinned (your french buddy suffers from cranio-rectal disease). You have no problems posting your often venal and obscenity laden opinions. I simply dared to disagree with you (as did Arminius). But hey- this is what freedom of speech is all about.

Sparrow,

Get over yourself. It shouldn't be hard since there isn't much there to get over.
________

Farnaz,
Je suis désolé. Je ne pouvais pas m'aider.

Bonne nuit.

Farnaz,

Okay, no problem, but I wouldn't bother with Sparrow if I were you. She reminds me of Astoria. No offense, but female jealousy is really pitiable, given how much discrimination women face.

Bonne nuit.

As for my last comment- you were the one threatening Mr. Patel, not I. i simply pointed it out because this is a public blog, your words could have been misconstrued by Mr. Patel and WAPO.

Sorry, but I don't buy it, and looking at your last post and UKba's, I suspect you may be the same blogger. In your Kimberley identity, you took off on me in much the same way you just did. Observer, sad to say, is right. You are jealous of me, and you are not alone in that. Frankly, I don't understand why, but jealousy is never explainable.

French is Observer's first language, and it is my L2, as we have both mentioned numerous times. It is easier for us to converse in it, and we frequently do. Btw., he is also fluent in German. I hope you will forgive him.

You need to look at yourself in the mirror, my friend. You once accused me of being a recent immigrant, not American, and therefore having no right to speak. Let me clarify something for you. Everyone, even someone who came to this country this morning has a right to speak; however, that doesn't mean she won't get called on for the things she says.

I did not post to you, but to Eboo. You replied offensively to me, and you continue to rant and rave.

Sparrow, I have no desire to fight petty battles. I have, as they say, bigger fish to fry.
****************
Cher Observer,

Ne devenez pas s'il vous plaît impliqués dans cette discussion.

Bonne nuit.
Farnaz

Oh look- trying to impress us with french. I realize you think you're dripping with scorn and are ever so much more sophisticated than the rest of us.It's nice to see two people who have such a high self-regard. Well, I guess when you're not getting it from others, you just have to do it yourself.

farnaz2- disagreeing with you about Mr. Patel is not ranting and raving. Point out one single sentence in the post where I was. As for my last comment- you were the one threatening Mr. Patel, not I. i simply pointed it out because this is a public blog, your words could have been misconstrued by Mr. Patel and WAPO.

So as for having a conversation with you, perhaps when you can accept someone disagreeing with you without freaking out.

Chère Farnaz,

Aucun problème. Je ferai comme vous demandez.

Observer,

Ne répondez pas s'il vous plaît au Moineau. Il ne le vaut pas et nous distraira.

observer- at least I can read well enough to know when someone is posting antisemitic comments and when they are not. But the day I'll accept being called "illiterate" by the likes of you is the day you develop an IQ with more than 2 digits.

Sparrow,

You are raving and ranting, and you did the same in your first post to me. When you calm down a bit, I'll be happy to chat with you.

Farnaz

WORLD_GUARDIAN,

Very nice post. Thank you, sincerely, and I mean it.

Now, will you answer my questions?

Observer, farnaz2- well,, I knew as soon as I disagreed- and politely I might add, you would react that way. Farnaz2, you rant and rave about your exile, you accuse everyone of racism, you declaim on everything and if anyone suffers from arrogance, my dear it is certainly you. You think you are the only one whose family has suffered. You are paranoid beyond belief and you love the sound of your own howling. You firmly believe, and bend over backwards to impress us with your "wit" and "intelligence." You've been calling nearly everyone on the blogs "oinkers,", 'racist pigs" and all manner of obscenities. If you're so intelligent I would have thought you'd be able tp present rational argument with actual talking points, but instead you are quite happy to roll in the mud with the "oinkers," as you so gleefuly call them. I guess when it comes to mindless pigs, it takes one to know one.

I simply disagreed with you. Others disagree as well. For someone who ran from a country that has no freedom to one that does, i would expect you to understand the meaning of freedom of speech. You are obviously still living in what ever festering sore of a country you came from. You take offense at everything. And at nothing.

As for you, observer- are you Jewish? I thought not. Are you a dunce? Yes. Are you capable of the most basic form of reading comprehension? No. Whatever your problem, it isn't mine. I'm quite proud of being Jewish, I know far more about it than you do and I'd love to talk further with you both about your enlightenment but I don't believe in casting pearls before swine.

Farnaz,

Now, I'm having doubts myself. Th Ukba post is illiterate, as is the blogger Sparrow, who claims she's Jewish. Common elements, too. Like Sparrow, Ukba is jealous of you. Read closely.

But what the heck. Post the racist stuff. Maybe some Muslims will benefit from knowing who the real Muslim haters are.

As per Sparrow, the synopsis of the errors and flaws of the major religions is being read across the globe to include the moutains of China. Mission accomplished!!!

History, Reality and Common Sense Rule the Day !!

Convergence has begun!!!

To listen to Amal Murkus singing Hulum [Dream]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYRcLm7ZJ9Y

to listen to Amal interview and song

http://www.freemuse.org/sw589.asp

Amal Murkus told the BBC in 2005:
I hope musicians can support people who are struggling for peace, if you can give you’re voice for human rights and for peace, it can just help and support people and give people high morals, but the first and most important thing is to give a high quality of art, and to make people moved by your songs and by my music.

I’m part of a minority... I am a Palestinian that is part of the Arab minority that stayed on their land in 1948, usually when you’re part of a minority then you need something to hold you with your culture to feel your roots and maybe to give the new generation the feeling that you exist.

I also find very nice things with traditional music because people in their land made this song, it came from the bottom of their hearts without too much thinking, and from the lyrics of the traditional Palestinian songs you can learn a lot about the history and from traditional songs all around the world and some songs are still relevant. I am proud that the songs are all original songs, because of the political and the reality of the situation living here in Palestine, the process of developing Palestinian music in the regular situation is almost impossible, and when I have such a great opportunity, I feel, like other singers in the world my career goes slowly because of the situation.

Amal sings traditional Palestinian songs, Jazz, performs swing, and sang with Mozart’s 14th symphony. In Arabic, and in Hebrew!

HOPE!

Observer,

No, I'm probably wrong. She's not a moron, Mary Cunningham, I mean, and Ukba clearly is.

But you're right--Ukba is no Muslim. That's clear to me now. Still not convinced Ukba is Christian, though, but I'll take your word for it. Btw., how on earth can you "smell" Christians?

Anyway, I shall return with plenty of Christian anti-Islamic trash, as well as Christian antisemitism. It will be my swan song for this blog, Observer. Let the racist piggies wallow in there own filth.

Farnaz

Farnaz,

Mary Cunningham?

Jesus H. Christ, Observer, I do believe the UKba is none other than the ever-present Mary Cunningham, in one of her various guises. She's in finance--United Kingdom Business Advisors. I was joking, but unconsciously, I must have known!!!

In any event, Ukba's Protestant or Catholic or Orthodox. I reread its post and see it now. I'll start posting anti-Muslim rants form their clergy, their Pope, presbyteries, etc., statesmen, anon.

Bonsoir Observer,

No problem. If you think the Ukba is Christian, I'll take your word for it and post tons of anti-Muslim Christian trash.

No problem, at all, since it is the Christians who are the primary source of it. Just want to make sure the Ukba is Christian.

Best,
Farnaz

WORLD_GUARDIAN:

Very simple questions from yours truly, one of the three million Jews in exile from the Middle East, in my case Iran, where I saw Ismael, a family friend murdered by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.
I have also lived in Pakistan and India.

Question: Where are the Arabs and Iranians, Muslims, that is, standing up for the rights of the few Jews who cannot get out, for the Christians, for the Bahai, and for the Hindus?

Questions: Where are the Arab artists reaching out to Jews? Anywhere in the world?

Quesions: Where are the Arabs or Persians seeking justice for the three million in exile, the Jews tortured or killed in Arab countries and in Iran.

Neither of your posts address any of these questions.

Farnaz, the Ukba b*ch is Christian. Take my word for it. I used to be Christian and can smell them a mile away.

So post some anti-Islamic Christian rhetoric, if you would. Then go on and post some anti-Jewish Christian rhetoric. Maybe, the Muslims will finally get it, that is, who their real exploiters and enemies are.

If you're too busy, let me know, and I'll do it myself.

Further to Captn_ahab's Question: "Where are the leading Arab artists and musicians reaching out to Israelis and their cultural institutions? If they aren't, then why aren't they?"

[1] Arab-Jews brought their culture with them from their homelands. It was ARAB CULTURE, which they excelled in and developed. Israel, under European Eshkenazi DOMINATION rejected it.

[2] Classical music is the culture of the ELITE in most countries [except Venezuela, where Abreu founded LA SISTEMA and succeeded in getting it accepted by the masses]. Daniel Barenboim's success is that he got members of Arab and Israeli ELITE to perform jointly.

[3] Israeli-Palestinian musicians, such as the great singer Amal Murkus [Amal means HOPE], from the Village of Kufr Yassif, creates her music jointly with progressive Jews. But that is based on her parents tradition, who educated her to respect both nations. Aida and Nimr were members of the Arab-Jewish Communist Party [*]. Another example is Reem Banna, from Nazereth.

[*] when Amal was two years old her Mom taught her to sing "We Shall Overcome", in English.

Ukba,

Disgusting racist pig, make no mistake I'm not your sister. If you want to see racist material from Eboo, read my blog.

Now do you want me to start posting Islamic racism? Or are you Christian? Take your pick, Repulsive one. What kind of racism do you want to see, Piggie? Funny how you don't identify yourself. Cowardly piggie, aren't we? What's up with the monniker? United Kingdom Business Advisors?

So tell us Pig, what is your Pig ethnicity? Your pig religion?

No, dear Oinker, don't confuse me with your demented self. I don't post racist material. In fact, there are bloggers on this site who have frequently accused me of being Muslim because I have posted in defense of Muslims, named Muslims who have been struggling for their freedom, quoted the Qu'ran and Rumi, lived in Pakistan and India.

Could be you're one of those racist Christians, Piggie. Racists are racists. But do come out of your pen to let us know, Piggie Wiggie, so that I can direct you to the appropriate racist links.

I'm sure Eboo could do the same for you.

Farnaz,

The only thing you can't say about Eboo is that he is racist; I have never seen even a hint of it anywhere in his writing. But I had read some of your comments and they are laced with accusations, slander, offensive language, arrogance, paranoia and racist remarks. Maybe you think your s don't stink but I have news for you it does. So, in nut shell chill out sister and try to see things from different points of views instead of seeing in monocolor. If you want to see some nasty remarks, read these:

If you can't see the difference between a benign comment and a racist comment read these real racist comments:

"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people." - Golda Meir.

"There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to neighbouring countries ... all of them; not one village, not one tribe, should be left." - Joseph Weitz, 1967.

"The only good Arab is a dead Arab When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches." - Rafael Eitan, Likud, 1981.

"It is forbidden to be merciful to them ... Evil ones, damnable ones. May the Holy Name visit retribution on the Arabs' heads, and cause their seed to be lost, and annihilate them ..." - Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, Shas, 2001.

Israeli Minister of the Interior Eli Yesha's response to Yosef: "They reflected the overall state of thinking of the Israeli Jewish society."

And I have read some nasty things said by Arabs about Jews too and they are shameful and discusting. But I guess that's the result of years of political hostilities.

Observer,

I don't think Sparrow is the brightest light on the block, and she is a bit arrogant, does cross the line, but I don't think she means any harm. Does she do any of the sort you mention? Hard to say.

Goodnight, my friend,
Farnaz

Bonsoir Farnaz,

Yes, I shall be signing off this blog as well. Frankly, I don't know how you stand blind self-hating Jews like Sparrow. That is, if she is a Jew, as she endlessly proclaims while seeming to know nothing about Judaism.

At all events, I suppose she stands as an example of what you mean by deformed Jewish identities. The thing is, and please forgive me, it is always other Jews they injure. If I were you, I'd want to throttle her, but then, I'm not a patient man.

Observoir

Bonsoir Observer,

Part of the problem is that Patel's many critics on that thread, i.e., those who took strenuous exception to his racist comments, have simply signed off his blog, as I suppose I shall do.

I don't even know if he reads these threads, although some of his posts indicate that he may. If he's read the last few, he knows he's been given tactful ways out by other bloggers (sorry if I was "misinterpreted"--blah, blah, and blah) but has chosen not to take them, suggesting that he was not misinterpreted and wishes to let his unfortunate remarks stand. At all events, for me, nothing less than a full, honest apology would do.

Ce qui peut on dire? Un raciste est un raciste.
He disappoints, but what else is new.

Regards,
Farnaz

I must agree with Sparrow - I see no racism in Eboo's posts, any of them. I do see misunderstanding of history, to a degree. I think his obvious optimism leads him astray from time to time. I read him as a good person. Try gently correcting, instead of ranting.

Sorry- as a Jew, I just have to say again there was no racism in that post. You have to reread it in the context of the entire post and as I said, Mr. Patel is certainly wrong to think the US went to war to rescue us, his point was about the hypocrisy of the government fighting for freedom in Europe while not addressing racism at home (and in the military).

Considering the good work he does with interfaith youth and interfaith issues, I'm not inclined to believe he is antisemitic, nor read his post that way.

Farnaz writes: "You want to make nice, to reclaim your credibility a spokesperson for interfaith understanding, while bypassing an explanation and apology for this, your post of ten short days ago:

"Consider America during World War II, fighting across Europe to free the Jews while its own swimming pools and water fountains were segregated."

Eboo, I suggest you take another look at that despicable post, and look up the history of American antisemitism as several bloggers advised you to do. It was not, as Farnaz and others have posted until the 1960s that discrimination in accepting Jews to universities ended. There was discrimination in housing, employment, the restaurants they could go to, etc.

And the idea that Americans had any interest at all in saving Jews is appalling.

You owe all people engaged in the war against racism an apology, this former Christian included.

And yes, do tell us about what Farnaz asks for:

"the Muslims speaking out for Jewish rights in the Middle East, for the three million of us in exile, for the few who remain. Tell us about the Muslims speaking out for the rights of Christians in Palestine, in Pakistan, etc., do tell."

Btw., Farnaz is as she suggests well travelled and well read. She is also quite outspoken about anti-Muslim rhetoric, has informed many of the struggles of Muslims in Asia and elsewhere for their rights. She has done so on this thread.

Too bad she is not the panelist for interfaith understanding. She will not tolderate bigotry. You engage it.

Sorry farnaz2- I don't interpret Eboo's remark about WW II as racist and I fail to see why you are so angry with him. While I think it would be a real stretch (to the point of breaking) to say the US went to war for us Jews, the point he was making was more about segregation here. The US talked a great deal about freedom and hell under Hitler, but the military discriminated shamefully against black-American soldiers, let alone Black-Americans in general.

Roosevelt, however- that's a tale. Still it seems that there is nothing Mr. Patel can post that won't infuriate you.

Your last line to Mr. Patel to beware- that sounds like a threat and crosses a line.

Hi again Sparrow,

Bun-Bun gets our attention because his endless, year-long drivel makes us lose our temper, which is just what happened to me. The best solution is for all of us is to get some discipline and simply ignore anything he has to puke here. I am really going to try to do this. Already I never read anything he posts - I already know the stupidity that is there, over and over again.

CCNL

You were addressing Sparrow4 with this comment, "What is it you do not understand about the phrase, for those eyes who have not seen??" but I wish to comment on your comment.

With my physical eyes I did not see God the Father but He revealed Himself to the eyes of my heart and God the Holy Spirit revealed Himself to the eyes of my being and God the Holy Spirit also revealed to me that the Catholic Eucharist is Jesus because God, Who Is a Trinity, knew I needed to know something to do the "job" He chose for me.

What do you not understand about that phrase?

By the way, Jesus said, "Blessed are those whose eyes have not seen", did He not? It is in the regular bible maybe not your version.

satan is a deceiver, a taker out of context type, a liar and a thief and in case you have forgotten, I have also met satan, didn't see him either but he is not nice and he is also a sore loser, he is very upset, that is his problem.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

ccnl,ccnl,ccnl- why must every thread be about you and your interminable copy and paste? Don't you ever think or question your assumptions and rants? You hate religion and you're freaked over std's. You must lead a strange life, or a boring one.

Believe me, by now and with how much you have posted the same thing over and over again, I think people living in the mountains of China without internet access have read your posts. What is your problem?

Captn_ahab wrote:

Where are the leading Arab artists and musicians reaching out to Israelis and their cultural institutions? If they aren't, then why aren't they?
-------------

Israel Radio had a mixed Arab-Jewish Orchestra hich played Arabic music[in Israel the term is "Oriental"]. It was conducted by an Iraqi Jew Al-Haroun, who changed his name to Ezra Aharon.
The Radio closed it down. It included Jewish musicans from Iraq and Egypt. Naim Rajuan - oud, Daud Akram and Felix Mizrahi - violin, Abraham Salman and Abraham Daoud HaCohen - kanoon, Albert Elias - Nai, and Joe Levy on Tambourine. The Arab Language service of Saut Isra'il - the Voice of Israel were founded as a propaganda Instrument alredy in 1948.

The orchestra had a very limited budget, and the musicians received a very low salary. To survive they appeared also in clubs and weddings. For their original compositions the Israeli Copyright Authority ACUM paid very small fees. ACUM discriminated openly against Arabic music.

I rest my case, Bun-Bun (CCNL) is nothing but a mindless, insignificant cockroach nibbling at the edges of intelligent posts here, but unable to digest the contents. For over a year we have endured his endless lists, followed up by puerile - nay, infantile - one liners, echoing with his brainless giggling. He is but a troll, intent only on causing dissension. Many, many of us have tried to reach him - only to get the same copy-and-paste lists of nonsense, followed by his inane attempts to counter. To hell with him.

Sparrow, Sparrow, Sparrow,

What is it you do not understand about the phrase, for those eyes who have not seen?? i.e. simply skip the synopsis of the flaws and errors of Judaism, Christianity and Islam since previous reiterations are now well known to you. Mission accomplished!!!

Awww! You want to make nice, to reclaim your credibility a spokesperson for interfaith understanding, while bypassing an explanation and apology for this, your post of ten short days ago:

"Consider America during World War II, fighting across Europe to free the Jews while its own swimming pools and water fountains were segregated."

As you were repeatedly informed, the US did not enter WWII until December 10, 1941, knew about the death camps shortly after they were in use, and knew about the concentration camps, the slaughters all over Europe, from the outset. NOt only did they keep it from the American public with help from the New York Times, but during the War refused to bomb the tracks leading to concentration camps.

Although whether you knew this is not beside the point, I will forgo that discussion for now. What is surely the case is that you intended in your post to be divisive and antisemitic. While you were antisemitic, it remains to be seen whether you were successful in your attempts to be divisive. You see, you are awfully parochial where Jews are concerned. We come in a variety of colors: brown like you and me, black, yellow, etc.

IF YOU THINK THAT YOUR CURRENT "ESSAY" IS GOING TO DO FEEL GOOD WORK FOR YOU, YOU ARE MISTAKEN. YOU OWE US AN EXPLANATION AND AN APOLOGY FOR YOUR RACIST COMMENT.

And, I agree with Captain Ahab, whose author overcame his antisemitsm, btw. Jews reaching out to Muslims is nothing new. Tell us about the
Arab artists reaching out to Jews.

Also, tell us about the Muslims speaking out for Jewish rights in the Middle East, for the three million of us in exile, for the few who remain. Tell us about the Muslims speaking out for the rights of Christians in Palestine, in Pakistan, etc., do tell.

Oh, and Eboo, be careful. Some of us are well traveled and well read.

Arminius, Arminius, Arminius,

Apparently History, Reality and Common Sense offend you.

Toda Raba-Alf Shukran-Merci Beaucoup-Muchas Gracias Gracias-Many thanks--Bareboim and his
BAND of ANGELS

Wish you had more Influence on the Stupid Politicians, War Mongers and Masters of Occupation!

Let Culture Soothe the People and bring Salaam-Shalom and Peace with Justice to Everybody!

YES WE CAN!

test

Bun-Bun (CCNL)

Take your foul bigotry and stuff it. Any person here with more than a few gray cells connected together is sick of it. Your totally stupid posts are answered by none except in anger to your ignorance and offensive behavior. All you are proving is that you are one of that sad group of people that are so insecure that they need other groups to hate in order to 'justify' their pathetic existence. You would have made an obedient, non-thinking foot soldier in the Nazi SS.

ccnl- we've all seen it. You post that drek every chance you get. Trust you to take a geat story and throw mud all over it. won't work. too many of us are tied of the same old same old. Time to try something different, reach out and give a hand up. You can either be part of the solution or get out of the way.

Eliminate the errors and flaws in Judaism, Christianity and Islam and let the convergence/music begin!!

The errors and flaws you ask? (for those eyes that have not seen)

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a
mythical character as was mythical Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.
Many of the 1.5 million Conservative Jews and many of their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.
Current crisis:
Realization that the Jews are not god's not chosen people.
www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/Works_Cited
For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Current crises:

Pedophiliac priests, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

3. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Current crises:

Adulterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology. .

4. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Current crises:

The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founde

Nice.

I've always found that the arts (and trades, for that matter) make some great, non-politicized common languages... especially if you have no others.

That goes for the divisions *within* our nation, too. So many people are led to think that, say, using a carpentry metaphor, 'Liberals get pedicures and don't know one end of a saw from another,' or 'Rednecks throw together any shoddy thing they can scam a paycheck for, and hope they're out of sight before anyone notices' ... but work with someone in person, often those notions of relative in-humanity don't add up.

A lot of people out there don't expect a tree-hugging queer girl with an accent like mine to know her way around this or that (Funny, given the accent would fit right in on This Old House, darn PBS commies. :) ) but if you actually work with someone on something, well, a lot of that dehumanization falls away.

Run around treating life like the object of the game is 'eliminating differences' simply doesn't get anything good done.

Whereas... :)

Where are the leading Arab artists and musicians reaching out to Israelis and their cultural institutions?

If they aren't, then why aren't they?

That would be truly refreshing.

Where are the leading Arab artists and musicians reaching out to Israelis and their cultural institutions?

If they aren't, then why aren't they?

That would be truly refreshing.