Israel/Palestine: Which Side Are You On?

If the "sky god" has engaged in a special contract with one of the multiple Semitic peoples in the Middle East, given them unassailable rights to enter Canaan and kill its former inhabitants and after failing to retain possession is now re-enacting this task, I ask:

1. Why do U. S. F-16s. Blackhawk helicopters and untold billions of American dollars have to indemnify this all powerful being in the perfection of this deal? Having the power to creat/destroy universes, practice "creative design" of all living things etc., why can't he/she it handle the matter alone?

2. Why is anyone who asks this question castigated by neo-Israelites as "anti-Semitic".

3. Why do Jews alone claim the title as "Semites" when all modern dictionaries and the Microsoft "Encarta" describe Semites as most of the descendants of Phoenicians including most Arabic speaking peoples?

Support for Israel or the Palestinians is not an either-or thing. What bothers me is someone who will swing to one extreme or the other. When I was in college, the guy who lived across the hall from me was very pro-Israel, pro-Zionist. He often went so far as to say that anyone who criticized Israel was an anti-Semite (at best) and a neo-Nazi (at worst). (One of his more outrageous claims was that pictures of Israeli police beating up Palestinians during the Intifadah was PLO footage all using actors. He said if six or seven Israeli police were clubbing a Palestinian, there must have been a good reason for it. (There probably was, I admit--the guy probably dropped a gum wrapper or jaywalked, or something equally heinous.)

For his Junior Year Abroad, he went to Israel. He was Jewish, but hadn't set foot in temple since his bar mitzvah. This was the pre-Internet days, so we kept in touch via snail-mail. His first letters were glowing reports about how wonderful Israel was. About three months later, the return address on his letters would list his name, street address, and city, but instead of "ISRAEL," he had written "NORTHERN PROVINCE, REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA." He was quite bitter and disillusioned when he came back to the USA.

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I really enjoyed this post!!!

HAROLD

Jesus said a lot of things and one of the things that He said was, "Do not multiply words like the pagans do", so if you want to say something, say it.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

7 Points to Peace:

Nicely said! I especially liked the very first sentence.

Harold:

Quit spamming!! It is very annoying and no one reads your dribble anyhow.

thomas look

Followers of Jesus

"shadow of death light is sprung up"

But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

"let the dead bury their dead."
"as he taught in Capernaum."
"he came and dwelt in Capernaum"
"Galilee of the Gentiles"
"The people which sat in darkness saw great light"
"shadow of death light is sprung up"

This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;
And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

Thomas said “don't you believe that God wins or is a tie 'good enough' for you”

It is finished, every curse of the book is upon you.
Your god is the lamb of god, thee king of Sodom. Four times john told you about him, yet your face still is toward Sodom. You and your kind (gentiles) preach Sodom is heaven. Your father is the king of Sodom (lamb of god), your baptizism will be in hell with fire. Those of Abram and Abraham reject you and your gods. Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed

“men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom”

“Abram said to the king of Sodom”
“I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet:”
“I will not take any thing that is thine”

“We have Abraham to our father”
“mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:”
“but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

“There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.”

“one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose”
“he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:”
“the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable”

“who coming after me is preferred before me”
“whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose”
“Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.”
“a man which is preferred before me”

“men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom”

And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the Lord, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,
That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:
Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.

“Abram said to the king of Sodom”
“I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet:”
“I will not take any thing that is thine”

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

“We have Abraham to our father”
“mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:”
“but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;
And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.

“There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.”

John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

“one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose”
“he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:”
“the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable”

John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.

“who coming after me is preferred before me”
“whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose”
“Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.”
“a man which is preferred before me”

And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord.
Rachel won, Israel won.

“men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom”

Billhah is just like Hagar, a handmaid.

And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her.
And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her.
And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali.

With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed

And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Quinn: I tried to post the entire article, but evidently the blog owner declined. Let me summarize it for you, as you seem not to have the inclination to read it yourself. Must be an aversion to facts.

The Arabs did not expel their Jews in 1948. Those Jews left of their own accord, following their own Zionist impulse. They resent being called refugees. Those who spout this disinformation do so for political purposes, to try to taint the Palestinians' right of return.

You can argue trot out the usual line that Israelis who write this are self-hating Jews, but that's your problem. As is, it seems, reality and history. But since when have reality and history ever stopped the supporters of Israel?

TRUE BELIEVER

When Jesus said, "It is finished", that translates as "PAID IN FULL", don't you believe that God wins or is a tie 'good enough' for you?

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

It am on the side of humanity, peace, respect for all nations and members of all religions, and justice.

To diffuse the problems followed by creating Israel among the Arabic nations we may have to look outside of the box. Would Israel consider joining us as a member of the Unites States’ Common Wealth?

What are costs and benefits for US?

We are already supporting Israel economically, politically and by sharing intelligence and military hardware. In addition, some Israeli Americans with both Israeli and American citizenships serve in the Israeli Armed Forces. Israel never would have to be fearful of any other Arabic nation; our great American Armed Forces will protect the common wealth as they would the homeland.

What do you think?

Mr Patel,

As always, I commend you for your beautiful humanity. The world needs more like you. I mourn the benighted here that rant against your quest for peace.

Arminius

Free Palistine!
Protect Israel!

The "cycle of violence" phrase used by Patel is a propaganda phrase that incorrectly describes the situation at hand. It is typically used to stop Israel from defending itself against Palestinian terrorists. The users of the phrase are akin to a spokesman for a violent man beating up his wife telling the wife "don't defend yourself - it will just make it worse."

If we look a little closer at Palestinian violence we find that it is not correlated to Israel's defensive acts (if anything probably anti-correlated). Rather the Palestinian violence is correlated with how much funding their governing bodies receive.
Without aid, Palestinians murder 100 people per year (they murder both Palestinians and Israelis). For every 1.6 million dollars in aid, you can expect another person to be murdered by the Palestinians about ten months after they receive the money (my calculations using data from Ref. 1).
It is not a "cycle of violence" - it is the international community's funding of violence.

1) http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=118&x_article=1362

Eugene Tarnow, Ph.D.
etarnow@gmail.com

to 7 Points to Peace

this is a nation who sought to destroy the native americans, because they could. it is a nation which enslaved blacks from another nation because they could. now latin american's are comming to this nation, and they seek to prevent them from doing so because the can. this is a nation rampted in crime and drugs, it is a reflection of what they are. we now have a government where the founding father's vision is disappearing. this is a nation where the chief of staff to the president said the wife of one with an opposing view is fair game to attack. what amazes me is that people see nothing wrong with this mind set. next will be the children and many will view nthis is a part of life in this nation. this is a nation where the people need to change. i suggest they go to hell

Why not celebrate the Jewish state? After what the Jews have had to endure, they deserve a homeland.

Why not celebrate the Jewish state? After what the Jews have had to endure, they deserve a homeland.

Bible and Koran Quoters are Absolutely useless.

Number 1: The Unite Nations resolution creating the jewish state of Israel wasn't fair to anyone. The jews didn't earn the land, and the palestinians who used to live there (muslim, christian, jewish, etc.) got shafted by the victors of World War II. Accept that as a starting point. And being victims of the Holocaust doesn't mean you earned the land.

Number 2: There are too many absolute, ancient, conflicting, religious mandates for each religions' "Holy Land" comprising the area of Palistine to ever be unentangled. Guess what? Allah, God, Yahweh, El or whoever you call your supreme deity doesn't give a damn who lives there. And certainly isn't going to step in to support any group's claim. There is no divine allotment of palestine to any group of people.

Number 3: Arabs, Jews, etc. are ALL johnny-come-latelies who have displaced or conquered the original settlers of Palistine. None of you have an ultimate, pre-existing claim. Go back far enough and you'll find conquerers in force seizing the land from the previous inhabitants.

Number 4: People who continue to do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result are insane and not capable of rational thought. People, arab, israeli, palestinian have been fighting, maiming, killing other people in palestine for generations thinking they can drive the others out and take over in peace. It hasn't happened. It isn't going to happen. And anyone who thinks differently needs to be locked up in an asylum. You are all idiots.

Number 5: There are more Jews around the world than can ever fit in Israel. There are more Palestinians around the world than can fit in Palestine. If you aren't living there now, it isn't your land. Shut the heck up and get on with your lives whereever you are now. Unless you personally got dispossed of your homes by the current inhabitants, it's not your home any more. If you, or your family, fled the country, for whatever reason, you gave up the right to own it.

Number 6: The nation of Israel is engaged in defacto apartheid, and genocide of palestinians. The various arab and palestinian groups killing and launching missiles randomly into Israel are also engaged in defacto apartheid and genocide. Both of you are just as bad as the Nazi's of the '30s and '40s. You need to stop. Now.

Number 7: The government of Israel needs to change. The only way to reduce violence and conflict in Palestine is to be inclusive of everyone and exclusive of noone. Failure to adopt that strategy will prove your doom.

I stated in my post of May 12 3:45 PM
"As a Palestinian I believe that all justice loving people around the world should be ashamed to allow such a crime of this magnitude take place and further metastasize for over 60 years and in the 21st Century."

It seems that the world's conscience is finally awakening as evidenced by the call to justice by so many religious leaders as shown below.
London, UK -
THURS MAY 8, 2008
Over 140 Christian leaders have made a unified call for a just peace between
Israelis and Palestinians, to coincide with the 60th anniversary of the
state of Israel. Their declaration is published today in The Independent newspaper.
Never before has such a diverse range of prominent Christians acknowledged
that for Palestinians, Israel's celebration has become a 'Catastrophe'
(Nakba). They seek a shared solution to the longstanding conflict.
Signatories include Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu, Nobel Peace Prize
Laureate Mairead Corrigan Maguire, New York Times' bestselling author of
'God's Politics' Jim Wallis, Evangelicals for Middle East Understanding,
biblical scholar Walter Brueggemann and Oxford professor Christopher
Rowland, 'emergent church' writer Brian McLaren, the Primate of the Anglican
Church in Australia, a dozen more bishops, and the international director
ofthe World Evangelical Alliance.

Also involved are seminary leaders, professors, authors, aid agency
representatives and ministers from across the denominations, including
Presbyterians, Catholics, Anglicans, Baptists, Mennonites and Pentecostals.
The signatories hail from Britain, Ireland, France, the USA, Australia,
South Africa, and Canada.

Laban
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
“God created man in his own image”
Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

Abram
“generations of the heavens and of the earth”
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
“Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground”
And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Abraham
“Lord God made the earth and the heavens”
And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

“earth and the heavens”
“to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.”
“to him also there was born a son”
"men to call upon the name of the Lord.”

Strong’s lexicon
Enowsh
Enos=Man
And it came to pass, when man began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
“daughters were born”

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

“in the eyes of the Lord”
“Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations”

And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

“it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength”
“Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground”

He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

And Samuel said unto him, The Lord hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou.
And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.
“the Strength of Israel”
“earth and the heavens”
““to him also there was born a son”
“then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.”

And the Lord said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.

"Lift up now thine eyes"
"look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:"

That is the four corners of heaven for those who have the breath of life.

"For all the land which thou seest" "to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever" I see heaven above. what does the UN have to say about that.

secret
the more seen, the larger is heaven
first you need a soul and the breath of life

Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.
The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

These are the generations of the heavens
Lord made the earth and the heavens

A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

These are the generations of the heavens
"A seed shall serve him"
"it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation."
"a people that shall be born"

My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
26. The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the Lord that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
27. All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28. For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.
29. All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
30. A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
31. They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction:
12. For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
13. Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
14. For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.
15. She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
16. Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
17. Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.
18. She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.
19. The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.
20. By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew.
21. My son, let not them depart from thine eyes: keep sound wisdom and discretion:
22. So shall they be life unto thy soul, and grace to thy neck.
23. Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble.

Quoting “We don't need the moronic references to god in order to side with Israel”

1) The Mandate was for a Jewish National Homeland, but almost 80% was immediately made judenrein by the British government
2) UNR181 recognized that both peoples, Jews and Arabs, had longstanding rights in the remaining 20%
3) UNR181 specified two States in that 20%, with both granting equal rights in both nations.

And the Lord said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.

“walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it”

length, Syria to Egypt, “the breadth of it” those who have the breath of life. The path is straight, a line, and who is on his side, side by side, two by two with the breath of life.

I ask you wise man, who’s the moron, one who quotes the Lord or the UN. “For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it”
"to side with Israel” you are not on Israel's side

We don't need the moronic references to god in order to side with Israel. In fact, that ignorance, very close to the jihadic ignorant arguments, does more harm than good.

Anyone who doesn't admit the simple facts is on the side of terrism:
1) The Mandate was for a Jewish National Homeland, but almost 80% was immediately made judenrein by the British government
2) UNR181 recognized that both peoples, Jews and Arabs, had longstanding rights in the remaining 20%
3) UNR181 specified two States in that 20%, with both granting equal rights in both nations.
4) The Jews, through the Jewish Agency, accepted UNR181.
5) The Arabs, through the Arab Higher Committee (representing local Arabs) and the Arab League (representing Arab nations), openly rejected UNR181 and declared unconditional war on Israel.
6) The head of the Arab League said they'd massacre Jews similar to the way the Mongols killed Europeans.
7) The Arabs lost
8) The Arabs blame Jews for the war the Arabs declared and refuse to unconditionally end the war they unconditionally began.

Anything less than acceptance of those points is clear bigotry.

We agree with the author's proposal to put aside differences and hatred in order to create a peaceful solution. Biases aren't going to solve this issue. Regardless of how each side spins historical facts, the truth is that both sides have suffered terrible injustices and neither will benefit from continued fighting and bloodshed. If forty years of pointing fingers has not yet solved the problem, there is no reason to believe that it will lead to anything but more violence. A peaceful future will be worth the painful concessions that would be required to reach a lasting compromise. Now is the time to end the cycle of violence that plagues this conflict.

How many human lives is a piece of land worth?

We agree with the author's proposal to put aside differences and hatred in order to create a peaceful solution. Biases aren't going to solve this issue. Regardless of how each side spins historical facts, the truth is that both sides have suffered terrible injustices and neither will benefit from continued fighting and bloodshed. If forty years of pointing fingers has not yet solved the problem, there is no reason to believe that it will lead to anything but more violence. A peaceful future will be worth the painful concessions that would be required to reach a lasting compromise. Now is the time to end the cycle of violence that plagues this conflict.

How many human lives is a piece of land worth?

We don't need bible. According to the Mandate, all of palestine was designated for the Jews. 76% was stolen and given to Jordan. Of the remaining 24%, palestinians are currently squatting on Jewish land.

They should be glad that the Jews are infinitely more merciful than the Arabs, who were lead by the Hitler lapdog Husseini.

http://www.acpr.org.il/ENGLISH-NATIV/02-issue/grief-2.htm

Ralph, you want an impartial source? How about God. God wrote the Bible and he says that the holy land belongs to the Jews. However, the land really still does not completely belong, even to this day, to the Jews. Why? Because the Muslims have control of the Temple Mount. And on the Temple Mount are structures erected by Islam to honor their idol, Allah. God has said, in his Bible, that this too will end. You can count on this happening as it comes from not only an impartial source but the voice of ultimate athority, God himself.

Eboo Patel has very strong, specific opinions on almost every other subject but has no opinion on Israel-Palestine situation. What a joke!

Eboo, thank-you for compiling a variety of opinion on these matters. Now here in the United States, gaining opinions is a process which is outsourced to Patriotic Thinktanks. So in the interest of not interfering with capitalism, Commerce or Patriotism, just let me say, "No comment". Of course that is just my personal sober view. Please do carry on though Mr. Patel, put me on your ignore list, as I would not want to hold you hostage disrupting important work. Yes, do carry on.

Now let's get this straight...The Jews have displaced the Arabs from land which the Jews say that "God gave them". As proof, the Jews and most Christians quote written material which was written by the Jews. To be fair, it seems that such an important matter should have verification by impartial sources. I do not favor either side in this disagreement, but some additional views might be considered.

Could not say it any better so:

Long live Israel. Do not give into the thugs of islam. They have no claim on the holy land. They should pack up their bags and stay in the land of their thug false prophet muhammad. No believers of any other faith are even allowed to enter the unholy land of mecca. That is what the international community should be talking about. The intolerance of islam. There is no freedom of speech where islam reigns. The Muslim thugs are trying to take free speech away from non muslim people in Lebenon right now because they are over 50%. The blind guides in the USA government and the western media cannot make this simple observation and continually run around spouting the PC false doctrine that "Islam is a religion of peace." These blind guides are going to get us all killed.

Harold, Harold, Harold, Poor Brainwashed Soul That You Are,

Reality 101:

Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (e.g.resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions, atonement theology and original sin).

Who would have thought that the drooling idiocy of pure evil would be named Harold?

True Believer,

Paul tried the "imminent coming" con 2000 years ago. It did not happen then and "ain't" going to happen now.

But it's HIS fault!!!

It's doesn't matter, because Jesus will be coming back within the next 25 years!!! The return of the Sons of Jacob to the Holy Land signals the beginning of the end times and the tribulations.

Read your bibles, folks. If you're already saved, great, if you aren't (Jews, Muslims, Catholics, miscellaneous), invite Christ into your life to avoid the horrible days ahead!!

Well said Sarjit

Garak: Help clear up my confusion. Did Arab Jews leave their native Arab lands on a magic carpet ? Did they just shuffle off ? Did their Muslim Bros beg them to stay, or help them along? Did they confiscate Jewish property and kill Jews ? Did they burn Jewish temples ? I fear you are trying to create more Arab fiction and speakeath Islamofascist propaganda. Thewre will be no peace until the Arabs learn their own history. Nice try though.

hundred and twenty

And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

“Lord said, My spirit”
“his days shall be an hundred and twenty years”

And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel.
And he said unto them, I am an hundred and twenty years old this day; I can no more go out and come in: also the Lord hath said unto me, Thou shalt not go over this Jordan.

“I am an hundred and twenty years old this day”

So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.
And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.
And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended.
And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him: and the children of Israel hearkened unto him, and did as the Lord commanded Moses.
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,

“So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab”
“Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died”
“Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom”

And the man said unto Eli, I am he that came out of the army, and I fled to day out of the army. And he said, What is there done, my son?
And the messenger answered and said, Israel is fled before the Philistines, and there hath been also a great slaughter among the people, and thy two sons also, Hophni and Phinehas, are dead, and the ark of God is taken.
And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years.

“he had judged Israel forty years”

David was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty years.
And the time that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel was forty years.

“David he reigned forty years”
“Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel was forty years”

“Lord said, My spirit”
“his days shall be an hundred and twenty years”
“So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab”
“Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died”
“Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom”

“Lord said, My spirit”
“his days shall be an hundred and twenty years”
“he had judged Israel forty years”
“David he reigned forty years”
“Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel was forty years”

“Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom”

Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said,
The Spirit of the Lord spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.
The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.
And he shall be as the light of the morning, when the sun riseth, even a morning without clouds; as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain.
Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

“David the son of Jesse”
“The Spirit of the Lord spake by me”

“Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom”

How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord:
They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

“But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:”

Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.
For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.
The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.

“Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.”

And Solomon said, Thou hast shewed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day.
And now, O Lord my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in.
And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude.
Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?
And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.
And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;
Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.
And I have also given thee that which thou hast not asked, both riches, and honour: so that there shall not be any among the kings like unto thee all thy days.

“but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment”
“Behold, I have done according to thy words”

And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him
“David the son of Jesse”
“The Spirit of the Lord spake by me”

the spirit of wisdom and understanding
“Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom”
“but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment”
“Behold, I have done according to thy words”

the spirit of counsel and might
“Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.”

the spirit of knowledge
“How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?”
“For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord:”

of the fear of the Lord
“The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.”

he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes
“Thy father did command before he died”
“, Forgive, I pray thee now”
“the trespass of thy brethren”
“and their sin”
“for they did unto thee evil”
“we pray thee”
“forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father”
“Behold, we be thy servants.”

here is the secret
“Forgive, I pray thee now”
“the trespass of thy brethren”

convert

As a Catholic Jew who is married to a Moslim man I can say only peace Shalom, Salaam!

As a Catholic Jew who is married to a Moslim man I can say only peace Shalom, Salaam!

Sofia and her well-balanced views of history.

"Palestinian Christians were kicked out BY Israel."

Whereas:

"Jews in Arab countries like Egypt were kicked out BECAUSE OF Israel"

In other words, both are Israel's fault.

And if you truly believe that those Jews who were kicked out of Arab countries "still hope for a return to their real home countries" I've got a nice bridge to sell you.

Oy! You got your facts backwards. The Arab states did NOT expel their Jews in 1948. That is Zio-fascist propaganda.

See "Hitching a ride on the magic carpet: Any analogy between Palestinian refugees and Jewish immigrants from Arab lands is folly in historical and political terms," by Yehouda Shenhav (professor at Tel Aviv University, editor of Theory Criticism, an Israeli journal in the area of critical theory and cultural studies) (Haaretz, Aug. 15, 2003).

What chutzpah! Israel uses mass terror to ethnically cleanse Palestine, then denies it and falsely accuses others of Israel's own crimes! David Irving and Joseph Goebbels would be proud! And envious! Talk about a blood libel!

There can be NO peace as long as Israel denies its own history.

If only the Jews of Israel and Muslims of Palestine could come to grips with the "fems" of their religions!!!

I see "Harold, the Bible Thumper C&Peer" is back.

So lets thump some "pretty, wingie, flying, talking, fictional thingie" aka angel facts:

Joe Smith had his Moroni.

Jehovah Witnesses have their Jesus /Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God;

Mohammed had his Gabriel (this "tinkerer" got around) plus he had a few Jinni around to act as "demons of the demented".

Jesus and his family had Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day demon of the demented.

The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.

Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie thingies" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of these founders and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.

Some added references to "tinkerbells".

"Latter-day Saints also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."

Apparently hallucinations did not stop with Joe Smith.

newadvent.org/cathen/07049c.htm
"This belief in guardian angels can be traced throughout all antiquity; pagans, like Menander and Plutarch (cf. Euseb., "Praep. Evang.", xii), and Neo-Platonists, like Plotinus, held it. It was also the belief of the Babylonians and Assyrians, as their monuments testify, for a figure of a guardian angel now in the British Museum once decorated an Assyrian palace, and might well serve for a modern representation; while Nabopolassar, father of Nebuchadnezzar the Great, says: "He (Marduk) sent a tutelary deity (cherub) of grace to go at my side; in everything that I did, he made my work to succeed."

Catholic monks and Dark Age theologians also did their share of hallucinating:

"TUBUAS-A member of the group of angels who were removed from the ranks of officially recognized celestial hierarchy in 745 by a council in Rome under Pope Zachary. He was joined by Uriel, Adimus, Sabaoth, Simiel, and Raguel."

And tinkerbells go way, way back:

"In Zoroastrianism there are different angel like creatures. For example each person has a guardian angel caled Fravashi. They patronize human being and other creatures and also manifest god’s energy. Also, the Amesha Spentas have often been regarded as angels, but they don't convey messages, but are rather emanations of Ahura Mazda ("Wise Lord", God); they appear in an abstract fashion in the religious thought of Zarathustra and then later (during the Achaemenid period of Zoroastrianism) became personalized, associated with an aspect of the divine creation (fire, plants, water...)."

"The beginnings of the biblical belief in angels must be sought in very early folklore. The gods of the Hittites and Canaanites had their supernatural messengers, and parallels to the Old Testament stories of angels are found in Near Eastern literature. "

"The 'Magic Papyri' contain many spells to secure just such help and protection of angels. From magic traditions arose the concept of the guardian angel. "

For added information see the review at:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel

There is no way to explain away the eviction of 750,000 people from their homes. Most were evicted by force of arms and some were intimidated to leave, but all were prevented from returning. They are Christian and Muslim Palestinians.
The Zionists who came up with the program of settling Jews in Palestine gave some legitimacy to their policy by quoting verses from the Torah, even most, if not all, the founding Zionists were atheists. On the other hand, many of the conservative Jewish religious groups are against the establishment of a Jewish state at least before the return of their Messiah.
The big powers at the time, Britain, Soviet Union and the United States all voted for the partition of Palestine giving 55% of the land to 15% of the mostly illegal residents from Europe.
The neighboring seven Arab countries made macabre claims and threats but in reality have handed over the lands to the Jewish gangs of Haganah, Stern and Zvei Leomeh. All the Arab countries except for Jordan, had refused to give their citizenships to the Palestinians and were content to set them in camps built and supported by the UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency). At present Iraq is expelling its Palestinian refugees and they are kept along the borders by Syria and not allowed in any of the Arab countries.
As a Palestinian I believe that all justice loving people around the world should be ashamed to allow such a crime of this magnitude take place and further metastasize for over 60 years and in the 21st Century.

they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek

Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:
The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)
Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

“Joseph is a fruitful bough”
“even a fruitful bough by a well”
“whose branches run over the wall:”
“from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel”
“the Almighty”
“who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above”
“blessings of the deep that lieth under”
“blessings of the breasts”
“and of the womb”
“prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills”
“shall be on the head of Joseph”

And when Joseph's brethren saw that their father was dead, they said, Joseph will peradventure hate us, and will certainly requite us all the evil which we did unto him.
And they sent a messenger unto Joseph, saying, Thy father did command before he died, saying,
So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.
And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we be thy servants.

“Thy father did command before he died”
“, Forgive, I pray thee now”
“the trespass of thy brethren”
“and their sin”
“for they did unto thee evil”
“we pray thee”
“forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father”
“Behold, we be thy servants.”

For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.
The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord: and he delighteth in his way.
Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand.
I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed.
Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.
For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.
The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.
The Lord will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.
Wait on the Lord, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see.

“The Lord will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.”
“Wait on the Lord”
“keep his way”
“he shall exalt thee to inherit the land”
“when the wicked are cut off”
“thou shalt see”

The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.
The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

Whoso curseth his father or his mother, his lamp shall be put out in obscure darkness.
An inheritance may be gotten hastily at the beginning; but the end thereof shall not be blessed.
Say not thou, I will recompense evil; but wait on the Lord, and he shall save thee.

“but wait on the Lord, and he shall save thee”

A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.

“A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children”
“out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel”

And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God?
But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
Now therefore fear ye not: I will nourish you, and your little ones. And he comforted them, and spake kindly unto them.
And Joseph dwelt in Egypt, he, and his father's house: and Joseph lived an hundred and ten years.

“Joseph lived an hundred and ten years.”

And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the Lord, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses.
Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the Lord God of Israel.
And the people said unto Joshua, The Lord our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey.
So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and set them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem.
And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God, and took a great stone, and set it up there under an oak, that was by the sanctuary of the Lord.
And Joshua said unto all the people, Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us; for it hath heard all the words of the Lord which he spake unto us: it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God.
So Joshua let the people depart, every man unto his inheritance.
And it came to pass after these things, that Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the Lord, died, being an hundred and ten years old.

“Joshua said unto all the people”
“Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us”
“for it hath heard all the words of the Lord which he spake unto us”
“: it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God.”
“Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the Lord, died, being an hundred and ten years old.”

“from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel”
“Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us”
“Joseph lived an hundred and ten years.”
“Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the Lord, died, being an hundred and ten years old.”

angels

If you think being cutoff of Israel is bad, how about heaven. Peace is only obtainable is all seek it. It was there since Abram/Abraham for His seed. What you fail to realize is the seed of Abram/Abraham is that of the LORD. A man is judged by his fruit, all my children belong to the LORD. All one has to do is research the Word of the LORD and you will clearly see that the Promise Land is for all who seek it. Jews did not cutoff others, look and you shall see they tried to convert since the time of Saul. Remember the wisdom of Solomon with the child.

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

And the Lord commanded the angel; and he put up his sword again into the sheath thereof.
At that time when David saw that the Lord had answered him in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite, then he sacrificed there.
For the tabernacle of the Lord, which Moses made in the wilderness, and the altar of the burnt offering, were at that season in the high place at Gibeon.
But David could not go before it to inquire of God: for he was afraid because of the sword of the angel of the Lord.

“the Lord commanded the angel”
“he was afraid because of the sword of the angel of the Lord.”

Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word

“ye his angels, that excel in strength”

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for My name is in him.
But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

“I send an Angel before thee”
“Beware of him”
“obey his voice”
“provoke him not”
“for he will not pardon your transgressions”
“for My name is in him”

So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

“a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life”

Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.

“Moses was above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.”

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.
I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.
And Moses came and spake all the words of this song in the ears of the people, he, and Hoshea the son of Nun.
And Moses made an end of speaking all these words to all Israel:
And he said unto them, Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day, which ye shall command your children to observe to do, all the words of this law.

“Moses made an end of speaking all these words to all Israel”
“If I whet my glittering sword”
“mine hand take hold on judgment”
“I will render vengeance to mine enemies”
“will reward them that hate me”
“for he will avenge the blood of his servants”
“, and will render vengeance to his adversaries”

Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek.
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.
And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the Lord, in the majesty of the name of the Lord his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.
And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.

“hath laid siege against us”
“they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek”
“out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel”
“then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.”
“he shall stand and feed in the strength of the Lord”
“the majesty of the name of the Lord”
“for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth”
“And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.”

“hath laid siege against us”
“they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek”
“out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel”
“then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.”
“he shall stand and feed in the strength of the Lord”
“the majesty of the name of the Lord”
“for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth”
“And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.”
“the Lord commanded the angel”
“he was afraid because of the sword of the angel of the Lord.”
“ye his angels, that excel in strength”
“I send an Angel before thee”
“Beware of him”
“obey his voice”
“provoke him not”
“for he will not pardon your transgressions”
“for My name is in him”
“a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life”
“Moses was above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.”
“Moses made an end of speaking all these words to all Israel”
“If I whet my glittering sword”
“mine hand take hold on judgment”
“I will render vengeance to mine enemies”
“will reward them that hate me”
“for he will avenge the blood of his servants”
“, and will render vengeance to his adversaries”
“hath laid siege against us”
“they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek”
“out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel”
“then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.”
“he shall stand and feed in the strength of the Lord”
“the majesty of the name of the Lord”
“for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth”
“And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.”

“Moses was above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.”
““If I whet my glittering sword”
“mine hand take hold on judgment”
“I will render vengeance to mine enemies”
“will reward them that hate me”
“for he will avenge the blood of his servants”
“, and will render vengeance to his adversaries”

“a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life”

Some posters seem to have a very simplistic view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Palestinian Christians were kicked out by Israel, too; many want to go back to their homes. Jews in Arab countries like Egypt were kicked out because of Israel; many did not want to go to Israel, and some still hope for a return to their real home countries.

This is not a black-and-white Muslims v. Jews issue. Some terrorist organizations are making it out to be such an issue, but that's not the whole picture. Religion aside, this is an upheaval of many groups of people just because of one territory. Taking sides is a little more nuanced than some would think.

Israel isn't going anywhere; blame and revenge aren't going to help anyone now, and too many innocent lives have been lost on both sides. Nice article, Mr. Patel! (and nice save, Arabist!)

captn_ahab:

Nicely done. You lay out the case better than anybody I've seen so far, and is especially better considering the 5 billion hotheads that usually take up this type of forum. It is a question of give and take on both sides, with both definitely having to sacrifice much (of their radical ideals) in order to achieve peace. Israel isn't going away, and neither is Palestine, and what we must do is sit down and find the reasonable answers to questions such as the ones you posed.

Judy Smith: Stuff it !

Muslims want another country to become 100 percent Islamic and all the Jews killed or driven out. Jews did not blow up Germans while they were being gassed by them (read about a grand Mufti offering free access of Jews to Hitler in 1940s if he ever got to Palestine- this is way before Israel was created)

This is all about land and what the prophet said; wherever Muslims live, that should be the dominant religion. Look around the world.

At least the "Jewish" state has millions of Muslims living inside who are much better off than their neighbors. By not taking the side of Israel, Eboo Patel is indirectly siding with the murderous terrorists.

Well, all I can observe is all the dirty land-and-war-related stuff has taken on a mythic life of its own. Maybe arranging a mythic sort of start of resolution would be a good start.

Maybe the followers Abrahamic religions ought to get over this idea of *winning.* As long as it's a zero-sum game, that's how it's going to play.

Taking sides is a tribal matter, left over from the days when tribes could avoid each other. Maintaining tribal perspectives in increasingly integrated societies is acceptable if the tribes can come together at a higher level, i.e. government, to set standards acceptable to all. The alternative is the historical one, that one tribe must kill the other off to get peace, for a while.

Taking sides is a tribal matter, left over from the days when tribes could avoid each other. Maintaining tribal perspectives in increasingly integrated societies is acceptable if the tribes can come together at a higher level, i.e. government, to set standards acceptable to all. The alternative is the historical one, that one tribe must kill the other off to get peace, for a while.

Israel was created with out Palestinians having any say. The results, added to ISraeli ethnic clensing and expansionism guarantees hundreds of years of war.

The only permanent solution to the Palestinian-Israeli embroglio is having free elections open to all palestinians, including the refugees and all Israeli, including the ones that have left Israel, on the formation of one state with one government.

IF this is not done, the Palestinians and arabs will slowly continue to develop the capacity to overrun Israel.

A one state solution has its problems, but it is better than a two state permanent war.

As long as the Arabs/Muslims teach each generation to hate the Jews and the West,
As long as they refuse to acknowledge the 750,000 plus Jews kicked out of their homes in Arab countries without any compensation, a number greateer than the 600,000 or so Arabs who fled Israel at the urging of the Mufti and others,
As long as the Arabs/Muslims hold on to hate and destruction instead of building something possible, please see Lebanon, Iraq-Iran war, PA/Fatah vs Hamas, etc,
There won't/can't be peace or settlement.

Jews and Arab Moslems can cease pointing fingers and each other and blaming the other for his plight.
There is certainly good reason to try any approach to stop the killing; however, we are even with our hands at our sides and our fingers pointing at nothing but the ground we are still left with the same questions.

Is there a place for a sovereign Jewish majority state in the Middle East acceptable to its Arab/Moslem neighbors?

Can Arab Palestinians accept the best deal they can get with the land available, and forget about retaking the land that is Israel?

Can Israeli fundamentalists give up their dream of settling "Judea and Samaria"?

Can the Arab nations turn down their anti Semitic rhetoric, while Israeils begin to treat their Arab citizens with greater equality?

The last question is the most difficult.

Given the history of the conflict and the hostility of the Arab world to the existence of a Jewish majority state is it now possible to get positive answers to all these questions?

Long live Israel. Do not give into the thugs of islam. They have no claim on the holy land. They should pack up their bags and stay in the land of their thug false prophet muhammad. No believers of any other faith are even allowed to enter the unholy land of mecca. That is what the international community should be talking about. The intolerance of islam. There is no freedom of speech where islam reigns. The Muslim thugs are trying to take free speech away from non muslim people in Lebenon right now because they are over 50%. The blind guides in the USA government and the western media cannot make this simple observation and continually run around spouting the PC false doctrine that "Islam is a religion of peace." These blind guides are going to get us all killed.

When Jews become more loyal to America than Israel, there will be justice and peace between Israel and Palestine

THAT means US government from bottom up will treat all countries/states in the Middle East equally. Hate will diminish and respect for each other can be the foundation for justice and peace.

When Jews become more loyal to America than Israel, there will be justice and peace between Israel and Palestine

THAT means US government from bottom up will treat all countries/states in the Middle East equally. Hate will diminish and respect for each other can be the foundation for justice and peace.

When Jews become more loyal to America than Israel, there will be justice and peace between Israel and Palestine

THAT means US government from bottom up will treat all countries/states in the Middle East equally. Hate will diminish and respect for each other can be the foundation for justice and peace.

Guilt re holocaust enabled Jews to take the land from Palestinians without there being a 'WILLING SELLER AND A WILLING BUYER.'

Too, many belive Jews are God's chosen people. AND that God gave them a Deed to the land (fundamentalist Christians see the taking over of Middle East to be a precursor to the 'end of time' when Jews will either convert to Christianity of be condemned to Hell.

As long as these beliefs are adherred to, there will NOT be peace in the Middle East. AND Americans will continue to be captive of the Jewish lobbyists - some politicians will do as they are told to get the 'Jewish vote.'

I regret being so blunt re Israelis/Palestinians. However, I think the objective facts are such that this is the way it has been and still is.

Mr. Patel,

Thanks for sharing, but please do make an attempt to transliterate. al-Nakba correctly. It's with a "k" not a "q" as the Arabic is spelled with the letter "kaaf" (ك) and not "qaaf" (ق). Spelling it as Naqba changes the meaning all-together.

Cheers.