One Prejudice, One Solution

Both “isms” are entrenched in not only America, but in every country on the planet. People feel the “ism” that targets them individually. The reason the world is entrenched in sexism and racism is because its ruler is both sexist and racist.
● Revelation 12:9
● 2 Corinthian 4:3,4
● John 8:44

True religion addresses both racism and sexism. A mark of true religion is that its members have a deep respect for the Bible. They accept it as the Word of God and believe what it says. (John 17:17; 2Timothy 3:16, 17) They treat God's Word as being more important than human ideas or customs. (Matthew 15:1-3, 7-9) They try to live by the Bible in their everyday life. So they do not preach one thing and then practice another.—Titus 1:15,16.

The most outstanding mark of true Christians is that they have real love among themselves. (John 13:34,35)

They are not taught to think that they are better than people of other races or skin color. Neither are they taught to hate people from other countries.
(Acts 10:34, 35)

True Christians do not share in wars. They treat one another as brothers and sisters.
(1 John 4:20,21)

Jesus' disciples are no part of this wicked world. (John 17:16)
They do not get involved in the world's political affairs and social controversies.

In the near future, Satan and his followers will be removed from earth by Christ Jesus. (John 12:31)
Very soon now, Jesus will manifest his rulership over our troubled earth.
Using symbolic language, Revelation 19:11-16 describes Jesus Christ as a king seated upon a white horse and coming to judge and carry on war in righteousness. He will use his great power to destroy the wicked. Jesus and his Father will preserve those, who strive to follow the example Jesus set while on earth, through the upcoming “war of the great day of God the Almighty”—often called Armageddon—so that they can live forever as earthly subjects of God’s heavenly Kingdom.—Revelation 7:9, 14; 16:14, 16; 21:3,4.

Thank the Universe for clarity. Divorced of preconceptions and religious and political loyalties the Truth is so accessible. Those that have eyes let them see. In the meantime, the papers and other media stumble around in darkness. 'In the land of the blind, the one-eyed are kings', but for one person with two eyes who observes the folly.

I can't believe I am about to say this but, you seem to be a racist pig deepak. I would say Mr. Wrights statements are akin to a Jew speaking ill of Germans. True it is stupid since "Germans" like "Whites" should not be used as a label since not all Germans are Nazis and not all Whites are racist. Why don’t you address the racist cast system in India, and stay away from subjects you don’t understand.

Spoken like a true politician.

The truth is the truth. What's your problem with the truth of what I said? I made no attempt to heal anything other than your ignorance of religious reality. The statement is all but a direct quote from Hailey's Handbook of the Bible. Read it some time. You could stand as could all of us to increase your knowledge of religion if you are going to continue to discuss it.

GaryD, GaryD, GaryD,

Your description of "voodooers of hoodoo" looks like something very familiar i.e. GaryD without the healing aspect.

And any practitioner of Voodoo will tell you otherwise and an anthropologist who knows something about religion can quickly tell you that for the most part western Paganism was sucked into the Roman Catholic Church, much as Eastern Mystcism was sucked into the Greek Orthodox faith.And further that Voodoo is an amalgamation of West African Mysticism and Roman Catholicism. Almost None of them have disappeared there just in disguise.

And none of it has anything to do with wisdom. Some of the most illogical self serving foolish (as in the opposite of wise) hypocrites I know are atheist.
And yeah there are some grossly ignnorant Christians out there as well.

Hoodoo = magic healing

Voodoo = deceptive or delusional practices

"Voodooers of the hoodoo" = delusional healing practitioners e.g. Jesus and his "healing" miracles.

Gee whiz, JJ,
Apparently the staff at whatever Home for the Bewildered you are at have failed to keep up with your meds. Please tell us where that institution is, and we will gladly complain to them for you.

Hey, JJ, if you keep making the bigotry against my people look *that* bad, maybe sometime soon I *can* go away. That'd be nice.

You, on the other hand, might wanna look to what's coming out of your mouth. That can't be good for ya. :)

"So, so you think you can tell
Heaven from Hell,
Blue skies from pain.
Can you tell a green field
From a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?

Did they get you to trade
Your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
Did you exchange
A walk on part in the war,
For a lead role in a cage?

How I wish, how I wish you were here...

Running over the same old ground.
What have we found
The same old fears.
Wish you were here."

Yes, that's Pink Floyd. :)

And, yeah, sorry about letting you dig that hole all week, but you seemed to be getting so much out of the shoveling. I didn't have the heart. :)

Actually, Concerned, any Pagan with occasion to be educated on the point will tell you that Voudoun and 'hoodoo' are two separate traditions, but why split hairs when you're so ignorant about all three?

GaryD, GaryD, GaryD,

Hmmm, 4000 years ago we had many "voodooers of the hoodo". Today we have very few. And any pagan will tell you voodoo is not a religion.

How about some proof that human beings are wiser now than they were even 4000 years ago. Belief or lack of belief in religion is scarcely proof of sagacity in either case.

GaryD, GaryD, GaryD,

Au contraire!! We are evolving towards the reality of it all and away from the mumbo jumbo of physical resurrections, "pretty/ugly wingie thingies et al. Unfortunantely some are still stuck in the dark ages of superstitions, myths, ghosts and goblins.

Or, as I like to say of people who want to deny evolutionary theory, 'They flip out and throw verbal, err, poop at people who say we're apes, cause they're terrified someone will notice the resemblance.' :)

Better at *what?* ;)

Actually, that's kind of the point, people seem to put much more effort into trying to blinker themselves about our animal natures and wondering what mysterious evil force makes us somehow not naturally act in accordance with the 'letter' of specific Bronze Age texts...

Than they do paying attention to and *using* this 'Consciousness' which is supposed to make us so much 'better' than our 'fallen' 'animal' selves.

And the funny thing is, the more people scream our superiority, the more they act out their worst imaginings of the 'animal' nature they want to proclaim themselves 'above.'

We could do worse than realize we're the animals who learned to look up and ask, 'OK, wait a minute, what's all this, then?' :)

Pagan - We are better and seperate from animals if we use our intellect and emotions "consciously" :) if not, then we are the same. Today, more and more humans do not use both those faculties "consciously" and hence they seem no different from animals.

Darshana

And yet wisdom and intellectual acuity aren't always directly related. Educate a thief and he becomes a better thief, educate a doctor and he becomes better able to heal.

There is little evidence that the human mind has advanced much beyond where it was 400 years ago.

To be sure we know vastly more than we ever did but we are not one whit wiser.

"For "Jungle law" is best suited for the jungle, not for a civilized society."

And, you know, Darshanna, I don't think we have so many problems in civilization because we somehow don't distance ourselves *enough* from our 'jungle' instincts, but in fact because we try to deny them and pretend they are something else, instead of really learning how to live with and through them in the best ....dare I say, most enlightened, ways we can choose to work out.

We are not 'above' or separate from animals, we are animals who can, if we choose to, understand ourselves and choose what to do with that. :)

Hey, wait a minute, Hira Biswas

"Paganplace above wrote among other things, “ that no one gets to the father (and heaven/paradise therefore) except through him. My way or the highway."

I most certainly did *not.* I quoted someone saying that to *me,* and in fact retorted:

"Don't mind driving. Why you so mean about it?"

Just so we're clear on that. :)

This is so true. In fact lack of evolution of the human mind is the root cause of many of the world's problems today. I might add that "survival of the fittest" is one more ... For "Jungle law" is best suited for the jungle, not for a civilized society.

"The flaws in them all!!!! " yet once again.

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a mythical character as was Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT. http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

3. Mohammed, an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven,warmongering, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds these acts of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

4. Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."
The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."
"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

Apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace in the world!!!!!

Simon:

Frankly, Christians wield a disproportionate amount of power in the US. We have a president who wanted the Republican Party "reborn in Jesus Christ," and declared one summer day "Christ Day." We have the Christian House of Representatives, the Christian (majority Catholic) Senate, the Christian Exxon, the Christian British Patroleum, the Christion Microsoft, etc.

For Christian oil, hundreds of thousands have died in Iraq. As for Israel, for Christian oil, during the Gulf War, the Israelis had to allow themselves to be "protected" by none other than the Christian US, with the result that hundreds died. Since the US Christians are so fond of oil and can't ship an appropriate number of weapons to their homies in the Middle East, they have forced Israel to do so. These same weapons then show up in the hands of terrorists who kill their great pal, Israel. With friends like you...

Meanwhile, back at the Palestinian homefront, your co-religionist Christians are continuing to flee, and guess where they go? Israel, which, idiotically takes them in.

So, Obama has as his minister a man who teamed up with a thug named Farakhan financed by the Lybian government and the suffering of disenfranchised people. Rev. Wright gave this man a lifetime achievement award and then accompanied him to Lybia to meet Gadaffi. And then Farakhan endorses Obama.

I don't think Obama is suffering too much from Jewish pressure. Some kind of Christianism has gotten to him, though.

I wonder what the 100,000 Ethiopian Jews living in Israel would say to Rev. Wright. In terms of AmeriChristian thinking, these people would be black. To us, they're just Jews. And African American Jews? Also to us, just Jews. What are they to you?

Think about it Simon. That is, if it won't be too taxing for you.

It isn't the forest that imparts greenness to the individual trees, it's the reverse.

All changes most of us desire to see "out there" must start with the individual. When individuals live with greater integrity, and become more peaceful, caring, tolerant, loving and courageous as required, such will the larger world reflect automatically.

I agree with Deepak. It is an individual's basic consciousness that determines all of these qualities and the degree they manifest in his or her life.

Ultimately, everything gets back to consciousness. Change that in the individual and the world changes in concert.

Changing consciousness as a practical matter however is easier said than done. It changes through intention and will. Most it seems are still finding the discipline to engage in meaningful self-correction. And projection is of course so easy. I'm certainly guilty.

Time will take care of it I believe.

It didn't if one stops as one should with Christianity. Christianity is but the logical offshoot of Judaism. Islam is a corruption of Both.

The relationship between Hinduism and Buddhism is similar in certain respects to the relationship between Hinduism and Buddhism

As usual Deepak's ruminations are utter drivel. I always ask my believer friends especially of Judea-Christian-islamic variety why did it take god so many iterations to get it right? From OT - to NT - to Koran, etc etc. If god is all knowing and perfect, why did she have to revise so many times. So much for absolute values and absolute rights. Folks I firmly believe that, the present times are the best of times and the most moral era mankind has ever seen. I will have you know that Sears towers or Empire state building were built more ethically and honestly than any of the cathedrals of Rome, for that matter any of the wonders of the world from antiquity. I think this "On Faith" section of WaPO panders to the folks who want to cling on to the stone age myths.

Where on earth did you get the notion that I thought Christian were always right? We aren't we're Human beings like everyone else and all to many of us tend to use scripture, which is more often than not to serve as a mirror for self examination, as a periscope for examining others slantwise and then wondering how come our view seems to be skewed.

My point was that Christians have not always been wrong as you and others tend to portray.

Of course the West has it's problems, chiefest amongst them being that intellectually lazy way of dealing with disparities in wealth called socialism, but so does every other culture on earth. No culture is any better than any other culture save to the extent that it meets the needs of it current population and allows it's member -all of them male and female regardless of skin color or sex to have a chance at prosperity, and liberty.

Simon: "Simply calling Pastor Wright a racist won't solve the problem anymore than it would to tell a rape victim that they should not harbor anger towards their attacker because the rape happened a long time ago, mark my words, America will be dealing with it's deeds for a looooooooong time.

I believe Anti-Semitism has largely been a response to the belief that the Jewish community weilds a disproportionate amount of political power. I myself was irritated that in the political debates Obama had to basically swear allegiance to protecting Israel."
-----------------------------------
Simon: your own bigotry and ignorance are showing. First, you are stereotyping all white people alive today as "attackers" of black people. You do this on the basis of a minority of white people in America's past owning slaves. This is racial stereotyping at its most blatant. I, for one, never enslaved anyone, and I DO take responsibility for doing something to alleviate the legacies of slavery - economic, political and otherwise. Don't you dare stereotype me!

Second, you mistakenly think Jews wield political power in the U.S. out of proportion to their numbers, and you cite the U.S. support of Israel as the reason. Jews are underrepresented in politics in the U.S., not overrepresented, when you look at their education and interest in political affairs. Many Jews are still shy about running for office and being active in politics, because we are self-conscious about fostering the bigoted stereotype about "pushy Jews." Moreover, equating Judiasm with Zionism is dihonest. Many Jews in the U.S. are unhappy with the U.S. and Israel for what we perceive as bias toward Palestinians and other Arabs. Many Jews are not Zionists. And all Jews are regularly stereotyped and murdered around the world because of the worldwide bigotry toward them as a group.

Finally, no fair analysis of the U.S. support of Israel should exclude an admission that non-Jews in the U.S. are a major force behind the pro-Israel sentiment in the country as a whole. Conservative Christians are now the among the most vocal pro-Israel lobbies. Jewish people in the U.S. overwhelmingly want a peaceful two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian crisis, and are against expansion of settlements. Personally, I am not in favor of religiously biased governments, and I would not have supported carving a Jewish state out of the region where it is now, but I realize that I have not lived through the Jewish holocaust.

Mr. CHopra makes a highly unevolved confusion of religion with the religion's adherents. People evolve by making a consider effort to live up to the ideals their faith sets forth. It is not more evolved to gain those ideals from non theologic sources than from theology. If Catholics can be sexist or Baptists racist (and I do not admit either premise as true) it is not from an express teaching of either faith but of a failure to which the progeny of Adam are all prey. Religious people call it sin.

Further, those who oppose abortion do not do so out of a desire to relegate women to second class status, but out of an exaltation of life. Even if one does not agree that a fetus is a life, one must not assume that those who believe it so are doing it to supress women.

We will evolve when we stop leaping to conclusions about other's motives and assume the best in people while we understand that sometimes they will fail to live up to our hopes.

Hmmm. Seems that's what God does with us. How evloved an attitude in Him/Her.

Part 3 - Sexism in Corporations

a) the overwhelming number of male corporate executives and board members.

b) the forever present "glass ceiling".

c) unequal pay for equal work.

What should religions do about it? Insist these inequalities are eliminated by sermons, by forcing the issue via proxy statements and by proxy voting for only female board members.

I disagree with Deepak. While I do think that we as human beings need to raise our "consciousness", I don't believe the issues we struggle with today derive themselves from such a deep metaphysical issue. Many of the issues we have today seem to derive from the simple issue of resource allocation. I once heard politics defined as who gets what, when and how.

American slavery and racism allowed whites to limit the competitve abilities of blacks and therefore allowed the white majority to horde resources uncontested for centuries. Many of the survival tactics used by blacks during that era remain in the black community in mutated forms and continue to restrain black progress. That's like telling a victim of childhood molestation that they should just get over the trauma because it happened a long time ago. When trauma happens to a cultural group, the trauma persists loooooong after the initial victims have passed on. Slavery was traumatic enough without the second cultural-earthquake of entrenched racism and terrorism by American terrorists like the KKK, Neo-Nazis, etc. I would assert that the majority of whites are TOTALLY oblivious to what is truly happening in the black community. Remember, it wasn't merely one generation of people who were traumatized, it was the culture of the people that was molested, and culture is passed on to the next generation over and over and.... Simply calling Pastor Wright a racist won't solve the problem anymore than it would to tell a rape victim that they should not harbor anger towards their attacker because the rape happened a long time ago, mark my words, America will be dealing with it's deeds for a looooooooong time.

I believe Anti-Semitism has largely been a response to the belief that the Jewish community weilds a disproportionate amount of political power. I myself was irritated that in the political debates Obama had to basically swear allegiance to protecting Israel. Why? Last I checked Obama was an American citizen, why does he have to swear to protect Israel? What makes Israel so special? Israel has their own army, they even have nuclear weapons so why are MY tax dollars going to protect them? Now, I would definitely not call myself an anti-anyone but I am angry that Obama is being tested on his allegiance to Israel but not to Darfur, or Brazil, or the people of Iraq or anyone other than Israel. Is Israel more special than every other country in the world? Telling me to "raise my consciousness" isn't going to answer that question and that question makes me angry.

Fairness is the issue at hand, I as an American citizen believe completely in my heart that the leadership of America knew for a FACT that Iraq had no WMD's. Sure Saddam was a bad guy but so are many leaders around the world, what about N.Korea's leader? Well the difference is that Saddam can't fight back and N.Korea possibly can but N.Korea has nothing of value so Iraq it was. I believe that we have yet to truly see the blowback from what we're doing in Iraq as those children grow up into true haters of America. What are we going to tell them as they think of their murdered mothers and fathers? That they need to raise their consciousness? Where was American enlightenment 4 years ago when we attacked them?

Fairness, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If we as Americans have been doing to other groups of people what we want them to do to us then we have lot to be afraid of in the coming years.

Just my 2cents...

While I understand how Reverend Wright got to the place he is in, I can only hope the good Reverend, as a Christian, can get to a place of forgiveness for those people whose bigotry hurt him so deeply.

The concept of separate "races" has always been promoted by those who benefit economically from it. Biologically, the concept is meaningless.

There are a lot of southern churches that are now devoted to changing the memory of the Confederacy. They feel the history books misrepresent the facts and their god indeed with topple any god who says otherwise. Somehow racism is not vindicated by historical righteousness.

Lots of wars have been fought on the grounds of moral righteous because god is on my side and the only way to prove that is to win. For the majority of religious people the dividing line is not the death of every other faith, it is the right to practice your own. What I have notice when I speak to blacks or whites or immigrants is that they feel the government is failing their children. The church, home schoolers, and a community centered social life is evolving around the choices of people.

I think that addressing the problems of education would probably have a deflating effect on church authority. When the schools attempt to impose a global secular faith on the public, the reaction is a loss of identity. Regardless of the historical facts, ancestral identity will be the flag that the masses raise when their children are failed. It distorts problems, by raising non-issues and fanning the flames of fear. It is not reflecting the goodness or fairness of people, but the cry that every person has a right to their existence. If we want to appeal to the reasoning person get the union out of the schools, and the kids off the numbers treadmill. Teach the teachers to teach math and science so our nation can move forward.

PaganPlace, gotcha.

Hira Biswas, yes, I suppose the Gnostic read would be one way to deal with that.

Another way would be to simply choose to believe the things that you like and refuse to believe the things that you don't.

I wonder which happens most often.

Everyone needs to understand the definition of the word "religion". It comes from the Latin root meaning "to connect". It is about our connection to the universe and everything in it, not some building or dogma of a particular sect.
Everyday millions of people are waking up to the fact that coldness, heartlessness, and commercialism are simply impractical and only that which gives the opportunity for the expression of love and ideality are the truly worthwhile pursuits.

i enjoyed reading your thoughtful words thank you..what most people dont realize is they themselves are just as much of creator of change as anyone else by simply doing what it is they believe in.

Paganplace above wrote among other things, “ that no one gets to the father (and heaven/paradise therefore) except through him. My way or the highway."

This a much misunderstood part of some of the most important teachings of Jesus. Jesus practiced solitary prayer and meditations in the desert and mountain to realize His inner light or consciousness which He considered to be indispensable to go to His Heavenly Father. Remember, He told us in simple language, “The kingdom is God within you”, not out there in the cosmos.

In His numerous conversations with his disciples, Jesus always insisted that no one can realize inner light of consciousness without following His way of solitary prayer and meditations. He derided the public practice of prayer in Jewish temples. He was all about inner light (you are the light of the world, Gospel of John) as opposed to the then practice of empty rituals and open prayer in Jewish temples.

During the first several hundred years of Christianity, there were huge controversies between the orthodox (Catholics) and the Gnostics about the rituals of Church Christianity and the inner light of the Gnostics (the spiritualists). This is one reason why the inclusion of the Gospel of John into the Bible was so controversial.

Jesus’ insistence of His way of inner light did not mean you will have to be a Catholic, a Protestant or even a Christian to self-realize the inner light or consciousness although that is the message the church Christianity conveys through many billboards on our Highways. On the other hand, slogan of Gnostics during the first few centuries was "You will have to practice His way to be the light of the world". That is quite an inversion of the teaching of this great Master.

Paganplace above wrote among other things, “ that no one gets to the father (and heaven/paradise therefore) except through him. My way or the highway."

This a much misunderstood part of some of the most important teachings of Jesus. Jesus practiced solitary prayer and meditations in the desert and mountain to realize His inner light or consciousness which He considered to be indispensable to go to His Heavenly Father. Remember, He told us in simple language, “The kingdom is God within you”, not out there in the cosmos.

In His numerous conversations with his disciples, Jesus always insisted that no one can realize inner light of consciousness without following His way of solitary prayer and meditations. He derided the public practice of prayer in Jewish temples. He was all about inner light (you are the light of the world, Gospel of John) as opposed to the then practice of empty rituals and open prayer in Jewish temples.

During the first several hundred years of Christianity, there were huge controversies between the orthodox (Catholics) and the Gnostics about the rituals of Church Christianity and the inner light of the Gnostics (the spiritualists). This is one reason why the inclusion of the Gospel of John into the Bible was so controversial.

Jesus’ insistence of His way of inner light did not mean you will have to be a Catholic, a Protestant or even a Christian to self-realize the inner light or consciousness although that is the message the church Christianity conveys through many billboards on our Highways. On the other hand, slogan of Gnostics during the first few centuries was "You will have to practice His way to be the light of the world". That is quite an inversion of the teaching of this great Master.

WHAT ARE OUR POTENTIALS? We are not doomed to be racists. Hidden within all of us, male or female, are three divine qualities: Will, Intelligence and Feeling. If we are born and raised in a culture or environment that is free of prejudices, the Will within is naturally bloom into service, Intelligence into wisdom, and Feeling into unconditional love just as a bud is bloomed into a flower naturally and effortlessly. Primarily because we are neither born nor raised in a family or culture that is free of prejudices, we human beings miss out these huge triple potentials that are naturally within us, although, they were and are our birth rights.

ARE WE DOOMED? No, heaven on earth is our goal and we are definitely moving in that direction. We human beings are not doomed to perpetuate our prejudices from generation to generation? . Each society consists of individuals, male and female. We need to work on our problems in personal levels, one person at a time. To achieve success in this area, we need above all to be conscious of our highest potentials. Also, we must be conscious of the nature of prejudices we human beings are capable of practicing consciously or unconsciously in every part of our planet. Look around, you cannot miss noticing those prejudices which come from our acceptance of duality such as rich/poor, black/white, male/female, upper caste/lower caste, Protestants/Catholics, tall Africans vs. short Africans. You cannot miss noticing because all human beings everywhere are born with an inner intuitive diagnostic faculty that can distinguish right from wrong. We are blessed and lucky.

IS THRE A WAY OUT? Yes. As a nation, let's concentrate in our childhood education.
The rate of success of keeping our adult behavior free of prejudices will be higher, if we are lucky enough to develop the knowledge and consciousness of those triple potentials in our early education just as many childhood immunizations keep us physically healthy in our adult life.

ARE RELIGIONS CURSES OR BLESSINGS? Truly, all religions have been blessings to the human race. Let's not blame any religion for our current situation. All the ingredients for our salvation and liberation are already there in all religions. All we need to do is to use our inner faculty to use them properly. Misuse of religions can be as fatal as the misuse of life-saving drugs. Religions will not have to be destroyed, however, from time to time, they need to be fulfilled.

Dear Dr Chopra:
Namaste. You are so eloquent in expressing the enlightenment attained through your special gifts and awareness, yet you have cooked up a title like "New Humanity". How is that possible? What was the old humanity? it does not make sense.

Another title you used extensively was Anti Aging. I went to a conference of Anti Aging more than a year ago. Contrary to my expectations, those who had started on the Anti Aging program 10 years ago were indeed 10 years older, i.e., they had aged normally. Shouldn't they be 10 years younger?

Ok, has America not paid their sarcasm bill this month?

This shouldn't be that hard. :)

you never looked up unzipped but can figure it out. What a genius! what do you when you have to pee? Use your unevolved consciousness I guess.

Did Hopra mean that sexism and racism are inherent or endemic? Or instinctual? Heck why not say so?

"This is typical of Chopra's consummate BS. Says nothing and means nothing -- "unevolved consciousness" - even the spell check program doesn't recognize "unevolved" as a word"

Is 'Unzipped' in the dictionary? I never looked. But somehow I figured it out.

Call it a rise in consciousness, maybe.

Or something I coulda learned on Reading Rainbow.

""PaganPlace asks: "You *do* realize that's not the rest of the world's fault, right?""

"Do you have specific questions you would like to ask me? I'm unsure of what you're driving at."

Rhetorical question, that. Point being, just cause someone says 'Absolute and exclusive authority over everyone is the only way my religion makes sense to me,' ...doesn't give em the right to act like the world owes them obeisance.

Dig?

DC writes:
"Sexism and racism are rooted in unevolved consciousness, and both will be solved when consciousness rises."

This is typical of Chopra's consummate BS. Says nothing and means nothing -- "unevolved consciousness" - even the spell check program doesn't recognize "unevolved" as a word - and what do we mean by "consciousness rises?"

Chopra, for once, seems to transcend his own total BS when he says:

"They aren't going to be solved from the pulpit, however. ... Religion was one of the chief bulwarks of this world view, so turning to it for a remedy seems ironic."

Of course, being a salesman, he says:
"I'd put much more trust in the growing spiritual movement outside the church."

Meaning, of course, his brand of BS.

The fact is that for centuries people have turned to religion to justify all sorts of nonsense. So they turn to religion to justify sexism and racism and also turn to it to justify the solutions for sexism and racism.

And along comes Chopra with his brand of pseudo religious BS and says there's a different religion outside the church and it is a S-P-I-R-I-T-U-A-L movement ... i.e., I can millions by pretending to be some sort of latter day guru.

Total rubbish.

PaganPlace asks: "You *do* realize that's not the rest of the world's fault, right?"

Do you have specific questions you would like to ask me? I'm unsure of what you're driving at.

"Thanks for responding. It's my opinion that Jesus' clear statement of being the only way is a core teaching. It's a central component and, without it, the tale becomes even more nonsensical that it is already."

You *do* realize that's not the rest of the world's fault, right?

TJ,

We will agree to disagree. I'm fine with that. Thanks.

Arminius

Arminius,

Thanks for responding. It's my opinion that Jesus' clear statement of being the only way is a core teaching. It's a central component and, without it, the tale becomes even more nonsensical that it is already.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

"In the end, giving women and minorities true equality begins with the individual."

I agree with this statement. As we realize that our individual belief's have power within themselves to affect change, we realize we don't have to fight or force legislation, we just must act individually and the changes will be reflected in the outer, in the right and perfect time.

Paganplace, you said,

"Don't mind driving. Why you so mean about it? :)"

You have a way with words, dear friend! I'm still laughing!

Arminius

TJ,

When I said that the tribal mentality defeats us, I was defending the core teachings of Jesus: God is love. Yes, I am aware of the other stuff. I don't buy into it. The tribalism shown by the crass statement 'my way or the highway' is the tribal chant of 'you are with us or against us'. It preaches fear, not love, and results in bigotry and hatred of those who don't buy into the tribalism. It automatically implies that the tribe has all the answers, and will not, as Paul said, realize that they are looking through a glass darkly. It preaches power, not compassion.

I do not worry about heaven or hell. I will try my best to live now by the core teachings of our risen Lord. If or when the time comes for some kind of reckoning, I will cross that bridge when I come to it. I am not afraid. Not in the least.

Arminius

"Jesus was aware that his teachings were divisive and said so. I think that to claim that the Jesus character only taught love, puppies, and sunshine only describes a portion of the message. The other part is pertinent to our topic: Namely, that no one gets to the father (and heaven/paradise therefore) except through him. My way or the highway."

Don't mind driving. Why you so mean about it? :)

Arminius writes: "It is the 'us vs them' mindset that defeats us"

Henry James writes: "The problem isn't the teachings of, say, Jesus."

Jesus was aware that his teachings were divisive and said so. I think that to claim that the Jesus character only taught love, puppies, and sunshine only describes a portion of the message. The other part is pertinent to our topic: Namely, that no one gets to the father (and heaven/paradise therefore) except through him. My way or the highway.

I agree that churches are bent to the will of men, power corrupts, and etc., but the us-vs-them mindset is overtly present in the central core of Christianity, Jesus' words. It's not subtle.

So, my question.. why does Jesus get the get-out-of-this-free pass?

Touché Deepak.

Everyone else should read the Lethal Text Series. Lethal to the worlds fictions. Religion as we knew it is in it's last days as an instrument of Ego. It's been altering the world for about two years now.

Google: Lethal Text Infinite Play

or

http://i----i.org/infinite_play_lethal_text_series.htm

So glad to see someone I view as a spiritual speaker. It's amazing how many spiritual teachers and even "channel types" avoid the subject of racism and sexism like Ebola. It is good to see you speak candidly about this topic.

http://www.myspace.com/edmundjanas

""Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to prosper."
- Ben Franklin

God is love!"

I love beer?

John Barleycorn must die?

It's Miller Time?

Io, evohe? :)

Are you sure that white males didn't gain their status by means other than what you said, "an outworn attitude that promoted white males to special privilege in God's creation."

I think a little attitude is showing through your otherwise proper self. Agreed, males have dominated the economics of the situation often eating last after the children and the women. The males made the kill that all shared in the beginning and that hasn't changed. But it wasn't all white males way back when hunting was the means. Has that changed or are we failing to observe the economic powers in the world today that are far from lily white.

China was the birthplace of innovation, invention and discovery. They were over a thousand years ahead of Europeans in making steel for example. And India is a very old culture too. Why did Europeans pass both like they were tied? It couldn't have anything to do with sex-ism could it? Women still aren't worth much in India are they? And the Chinese bound their women's feet.

How did white males gain their present high position, along with many of other colors now? Was it because of something they did or didn't do? To women?

I know it. You know it. Anyone with a piece of a brain knows it. Religion is/was the problem. They call it culture but we know better. It was Buddhism, Hinduism that caused those early civilizations to decline. Lookout for the Chinese for they're fixing the problem.

Not to worry, Christianity is doing the same thing to European based economies, (all issues are economic). Some great man once said that the saving grace of Christianity is that no one believed the nonsense. That was then and this is now when one must be a Christian to be president.

Maybe http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul will save white males from themselves. It's not likely. The greatest president we ever had, Ronald Regan's administration was run off astrological charts. Do away with Christianity and here comes the astrologers to say nothing of Islam where sex-ism is done by Allah's law complete with morals police beating improperly dressed women.

I can see how this question has folks like yourself a bit befuddled. Race-ism is very much in vogue these days in America for non whites. Now take Reverend Jeremiah Wright Jr for example. But race-ism is against the law that is enforced, for whites saying similar things about blacks only of course. Does anyone know how much extra the collection grew after that sermon? All issues and all actions of man are based on economic considerations, except for the crazies. Is Jeremiah crazy or greedy? He just love a Jew named Jesus? Not very white male if you as me, European white male for sure.

Henry James,

Hello, my favorite ghost! Glad you're here.

Thanks for the compliment. Indeed, established power seeks to entrench itself by any means; thus reads history. There are exceptions, and progress, from time to time. I do see a few small signs today, but they are but sprouting seeds, and must be cared for.

Arminius

Let us look at the problem in parts.

Part 1,

1. Sexism in the Catholic Church.

a) the refusal to allow women to be priests using "fuzzy" references in scripture to make the case.

b)St. Paul the Prude as per Professor Bruce Chilton
An excerpt from his book, Rabbi Paul":

"He (Paul) feared the turn-on of women's voices as much as the sight of their hair and skin..... At one point he even suggests that the sight of female hair might distract any "pretty wingie talking fictional thingies" in church attendance (1 Cor. 11:10). Simply add Paul's thinking about women to the list of flaws in the foundations of Catholicism/Christianity and a major factor in the Church's treatment of women.

Professor Chilton btw is a Professor of Religion at Bard College and a priest at the Free Church of St. John in Barrytown, NY.

c. And it is very probable that the Islamic scribes in plagiarizing from the NT used Paul's ideas about women and added them to the sexist koran.

Paganplace,

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to prosper."
- Ben Franklin

God is love!

Arminius

Hello, Henry! :)

"Chopra is right: it seems ironic (read absurd) to go to this source of the problem and expect it to change the mindsets that have supported these two diseases for millenia."

I think, where better to go than the source? :)

But, no, I wouldn't hold my breath on it, either. :)

"I am getting kinda depressed.... time for another beer."

Hey, beer and civilization are like *that* (crossing fingers after the Bostonian fashion) :)

Seems like a long time, but we're just starting to figure out how to live in boxes. :) These things take time. :)

ArminiuS

You hit the nail on the head.

The problem isn't the teachings of, say, Jesus.

For the most part he was a moral exemplar.

The problem is the institutionalizatin of the Churches as power structures, that get bent to the aims of the MEN in power who need to consolidate and extend that power.

Now, all of us grownups need to acknowledge that this is a BIG problem. The world NEEDS institutions and Power, in the complicated sense of the word "need."

But Power tends to obscure the originating moral purpose from which it derived its strength.

Religion has Legitimized and Institutionalized Racism and Sexism

Chopra is right: it seems ironic (read absurd) to go to this source of the problem and expect it to change the mindsets that have supported these two diseases for millenia.

We need to label religious tradition as Toxic regarding these two problems, and seek to transcend the religiously endorsed traditions of bigotry that persist throughout the globe.

Paganplace,

We are edging into some profound stuff here.

I see it - to reduce it as much as possible - as two things, regarding Christianity.

First, the message of Jesus, the message of love, was preached to everybody on the globe. God loves everybody, and we should all love God and our neighbor. Neighbor including everybody on spaceship earth.

Next, when Christianity became official, with a hierarchy and bureaucracy, the tribal mentality took over. It is the 'us vs them' mindset that defeats us. It is best stated in the Vietnam quote: 'We had to destroy the village in order to save it.'

I am getting kinda depressed.... time for another beer.

Arminius

I mean, you know, Arminius, it's just my observation that the scarier and more bigoted thing a person is going to say, perhaps calling it 'love,' the more likely it is they're gonna be driving around an SUV with bumper stickers that says, 'God Is Love,' and, with sick gloatingness, 'Warning, this vehicle might crash into a school bus in case of Rapture.'

I mean, these folks ain't even dealing with *regular* death, they want *special* death: the whole world ending just for them. And hahaha if it hurts someone else.

I see those stickers that say, 'This might kill people when Jesus beams me up.'

Same people who say they know all about 'love' when saying horrible things about my faith and my committed relationship with my partner...

I always want to ask them, "If you believe that, Why aren't you taking the bus?"

They'll tell us how superior Christianity is, though, if anyone else speaks, though.

From The Globe and Mail, Canada.

Taking Christ out of Christianity

Avant garde pastor teaches a new Christianity where the way you live is more important than beliefs.

MICHAEL VALPY

March 22, 2008

That triumphal barnburner of an Easter hymn, Jesus Christ Has Risen Today - Hallelujah, this morning will rock the walls of Toronto's West Hill United Church as it will in most Christian churches across the country.

But at West Hill on the faith's holiest day, it will be done with a huge difference. The words "Jesus Christ" will be excised from what the congregation sings and replaced with "Glorious hope."

Thus, it will be hope that is declared to be resurrected - an expression of renewal of optimism and the human spirit - but not Jesus, contrary to Christianity's central tenet about the return to life on Easter morning of the crucified divine son of God.

Generally speaking, no divine anybody makes an appearance in West Hill's Sunday service liturgy.

There is no authoritative Big-Godism, as Rev. Gretta Vosper, West Hill's minister for the past 10 years, puts it. No petitionary prayers ("Dear God, step into the world and do good things about global warming and the poor"). No miracles-performing magic Jesus given birth by a virgin and coming back to life. No references to salvation, Christianity's teaching of the final victory over death through belief in Jesus's death as an atonement for sin and the omnipotent love of God. For that matter, no omnipotent God, or god.

Ms. Vosper has written a book, published this week - With or Without God: Why the Way We Live is More Important than What We Believe - in which she argues that the Christian church, in the form in which it exists today, has outlived its viability and either it sheds its no-longer credible myths, doctrines and dogmas, or it's toast.

She is considered one of the bright, if unconventional, minds within the United Church, Canada's largest Protestant Christian denomination. She holds a master of divinity degree from Queen's University and was ordained in 1992. She founded and chairs the Toronto-based Canadian Centre for Progressive Christianity.

Other Christian clergy and theologians have talked about the need to dramatically reform the doctrines of a faith that, with the exception of its vibrancy in the United States, has lost huge numbers of adherents throughout the Western world it once dominated as Christendom. In Canada, where 75 per cent of the population self-identifies as Christian, only about 16 per cent attend weekly services.

Addressing those statistics, what Ms. Vosper proposes is not so much reform as a scorched-earth approach.

A number of leading theologians in Britain - where the decline in adherents is more dramatic than in Canada - are on the same path, people like Richard Holloway, former bishop of Edinburgh and primate of the Scottish Episcopal (Anglican) Church, who has likened the Christian church to a self-service cafeteria stacked with messy trays of leftover food urgently in need of being thrown out.

Like Bishop Holloway, Ms. Vosper does not want to dress up the theological detritus - her words - of the past two millennia with new language in the hope of making it more palatable. She wants to get rid of it, and build on its ashes a new spiritual movement that will have relevance in a tight-knit global world under threat of human destruction.

She says there's been virtually a consensus among scholars for the past 30 years that the Bible is not some divine emanation - or in Ms. Vosper acronym, TAWOGFAT, The Authoritative Word of God For All Time - but a human project filled with contradictions and the conflicting worldviews and political perspectives of its authors.

And yet, she says, the liberal Christian churches, including her own, won't acknowledge that it is a human project, that it's wrong in parts and that, in the 21st century, it's no more useful as a spiritual and religious guide than a number of other books.

She says now that the work of biblical scholars has become publicly accessible, the churches and their clergy are caught living a lie that few people will buy much longer. "I just don't think we can placate those in the pews long enough to transition into a kind of new community that doesn't keep people away."

She wants salvation redefined to mean new life through removing the causes of suffering in the world. She wants the church to define resurrection as "starting over," "new chances." She wants an end to the image of God as an intervening all-powerful authority who must be appeased to avoid divine wrath; rather she would have congregations work together as communities to define God - or god - according to their own worked-out definitions of what is holy and sacred. She wants the eucharist - the symbolic eating and drinking of Jesus's body and blood to make the congregation part of Jesus's body - to be instead a symbolic experience of community love.

Theologians asked to comment on her book said they wouldn't until they've read it.

But one of her colleagues who knows her well, Rev. Rob Oliphant, the progressive pastor of Toronto's Eglinton St. George's United Church, said, "While I'm somewhat sympathetic to the aims of it all - getting rid of the nonsense and keeping the core faith - I think that there is something lacking in it all. Gone is metaphor, poetry, symbol, image, beauty, paradox."

Ms. Vosper said she and her congregation have tried hard not to lose those elements in their search for the sacred and the transcendent in life.

She met with members of her congregation last Sunday to discuss what the impact might be of her book.

End of article.

Whow. At last some religious leaders see clearly how nonsensical traditional religion is in the 21st century. They have to dump the supernatural in order to get respect. And about time too. They must have noted that people have had enough of the supernatural hocus pocus and stay away from institutions that are seem more and more unreal in the enlightened times.

This is a teeny weeny beginning in the slow unraveling of religious orthodoxy, which is simply incompatible with the modern world, and must go the way of astrology, sorcery and witchcraft.

I mean, you realize that, right, Arminius? Most bigotries are really looking for shortcuts to 'justification.' Like that's worth the paper you can't read without a brain like this. :)

Maybe it's some kind of dark side to the 'graces' that 'chosen peoples' claim, but really. That's kind of the poison idea. That you're some special kind of human, and for some reason, that means someone else has to be something lesser.

Whoever put that idea in people's heads. Maybe it was us, who knows.

Funny thing is, if it *was* us, we can undo it, where some say we must simply obey.

Interesting?

Paganplace,

Right you are. There is no free lunch, and there ain't no silver bullets. It's gonna be a long haul.

Arminius

"Damnit, you exhaust me! (LOL)"

Hey, that's how we'll getcha. More lives, more Gods, ...aren't you glad we ain't the ones who think it's a desperate race? (good natured wink. :) )

No shortcuts, though. That's the thing. People want shortcuts, it always gets messy. :)

I am getting old in age, do not know if I am getting wise with age. One thing is certain, I am getting very inquisitive as the time passes by.

I am very curious to know from Dr Chopra, the difference between Dharma and Religion?I being of Hindu faith is wrestling with this problem since my birth, which happened long before India was divided.Appreciate some illumination for my searching mind, "old but young".

Paganplace,

Damnit, you exhaust me! (LOL). Like I said, we Christians have a crappy track record regarding God is Love. Like nearly anything else, it can be taken and twisted. That does not negate the truth of the core. If people had stuck to the words of Jesus in the Gospels, instead of occasionally extracting their crania from a lower orifice only to grab the negative 'laws' in the OT, no witches would have been burned. At least one would hope.... sometimes I really worry that I am too optimistic instead of being the curmudgeon I should be.

But yes, perhaps it could be recast in other words. 'Love is God' is not bad for a start.

Arminius

I mean, Arminius, if more people said 'Love is *God,*' rather than the other way around, we'd be doing much better. :)

'God is love' tends to lead people to notions that 'Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live and let live' is the loving thing to do. Gets messy. :)

"GOD IS LOVE sums up the teachings of Jesus in three words. Pity we Christians, as a whole, are lousy at doing it."

Eh, that's just cause you tend to figure whatever someone tells you is 'Godly' must be loving, whatever you actually happen to be doing. :)

Paganplace,

GOD IS LOVE sums up the teachings of Jesus in three words. Pity we Christians, as a whole, are lousy at doing it.

Arminius

Yes, I fully agree with Dr. Chopra that the real chance for productive consciousness raising on most subjects, including sexism and racism, lies in the growing spiritual movement outside of the churches. Only there are people free to explore progressive ideas. Of course, there are some fundamentalist spiritual groups, but most are open minded to some degree, and are willing to let the old dogmas die. The religions are locked in their respective towers, defending their dogmas at any cost. You really cannot even talk with them.

I believe they meaning racisim and sexisim are
both going on strong.
Think both are happening the same.
Cannot say that racisim is more prevalent
because I think they both are happening at same
levels.
It shouldnt be this way. It is though.
Racisim nor Sexism should be happening

"GOD IS LOVE
How much more simple can it be than that?"

Umm... Love is love?

That three letter name of yours has a way of getting complicated. :)

The Church was, is and will reflect their leaders' intellectual interpretations of their religious doctrines or theologies, and will continue to sway their congregations' understanding in like manner. Until we learn that we can not worship or re-connect to our Divine nature through our intellectual faculty (reasoning, deductions, conscious thinking), we will continue to perpetuate a constantly changing perspective of God's nature.
GOD IS LOVE
How much more simple can it be than that? Therefore, whatever unloving thought, word or deed in which we engage... is not of God. Our focus and continuous efforts ought to be in cultivating; loving thoughts, loving words and loving deeds.

Yes, we have dis-connected ourselves from our God-is-love inherent nature that it may seem impossible to re-capture, but Thank God, it is the singular aspect of our being that is unchanging.... that eternal, irrefutable "created in the image of God" connection that forever redeems us.

I mean, frankly, Arminius, where some see only 'religions' (even if said religions don't see *themselves* as the kind of dogmatic parallel-or-actual governments as Christians presume religions and governments must be) ...there really are factors where religions and civilizations are not necessarily defined so much by the dogmas some claim they are, but the quality and content of their *rebels.*

Frankly, to me, Christian dogma is long since for the big black squawking birds, but just sometimes, someone gets their back up and we get a Martin Luther King or quieter folks like yourself.

What we can't have right now is people claiming, 'All good comes from my Bible, even if it was mostly bad, so *don't* rebel. Don't acknowledge any goodness or thought outside our dogma...'

And, yes, the dogmas are always regressive. Christians who stand for something better *always, always, always,* are bucking the authorities who claim exclusive righteousness.

It's part of your way. I try to respect that when it's not putting me in the place of fighting it.

But it's there.

People like Gary are the ones who fight all progress at every turn and then when it's a done deal claim it was their kind of people's idea all along, so, no more, or damnation will follow.

You're better than that. Everyone's better than that. :)

Well, Arminius, let's just coast a bit, here.

Certainly no civilization is perfect. And it's about time certain Christian triumphalists realized it. :)

Paganplace,

Whoa, slow down, Lady. While I agree with you that Garyd is very wrong in his elevating the entire Christian church to sainthood, I think the point of his post on India - if taken on its own merits - was simply to point out that no culture/civilization is perfect. As you can tell from my posts, I am an admirer of Gandhi also.

Your analysis of the de facto caste system here in the Benighted States was very good, by the way.

Arminius

Also, you do realize we haven't much of a leg to stand on in the West to complain about castes?

Right now our democracy is engaged in judging a 'king' based on the 'priests' he may be presume to be 'commanded by' in the course of determining who best extols the 'warriors' while making sure the 'merchants' have enough advantage over the 'farmers' ...while trying to stigmatize the 'illegal immigrant peons' that do the crappy jobs?

All while demanding no one question this system?

We're not so different. We just have different words.

GaryD,

Good post about India, and, as far as I know, true. Every civilization and culture has its good and bad points, and, IMHO, neither the East nor the West comes out ahead. Just look at ancient Greece, the land that gave us Plato, the Parthenon, and so much great literature and art. They also tried to predict the future in sheep guts, and when they couldn't find any Persians to do battle with, they cheerfully fought each other.

But I always chuckle when I remember yet another Gandhi gem, when he was asked what he thought about Western civilization: "I think it would be a good idea."

Arminius

Arminius

"This latter day attempt to paint non European culture as some how superior to Europeans is every bit as wrong headed and for much the same reason as the attempts of some 19th century scholars to prove the reverse."

Umm, Gary, you were the one trying to claim that only Christian thinkers have been of merit in recent social change while crediting the Christianity for it.

I offered, frankly, what I think is a pretty damn compelling counterargument You responded with some idea he couldn't be cause you think so little of his people.

You try and discredit Gandhi on the basis of the caste system (Codified rigidly by the Brits under the Raj, don't you know) ..and overlook the fact he dressed *below* his caste, and even did the 'woman's work' of weaving everything he wore.

Knowing what that meant.

And lets not forget that the Indian Constitution owes at least as much to Mahatma Ghandi's English boarding school education as anything innate to India and that a lot of said constitution is still honored far more in the breach than in the doing.

Let's also not ignore the fact the the word Caste is derived from the Portuguese word Casta which means color. In old India at the time of the East India company it was fairly easy to discern one's caste by observing One's skin color. Almost invariable the darker the skin color the lower the caste. Nor was Hinduism ever a remarkably peaceful religion. Nor should one expect it to be so when the warrior caste ranks second to the priestly caste. Granted some sects of Hinduism are remarkable in their Pacifism others are remarkable for their violence but most lie somewhere in between.

This latter day attempt to paint non European culture as some how superior to Europeans is every bit as wrong headed and for much the same reason as the attempts of some 19th century scholars to prove the reverse.

Umm, actually, according to some who discount the rest of the world, Christian thinkers have been at the forefront of *everything,* including, conspicuously, every *regressive* movement in recent history.

That's cause these same bigotries only *count* Christians as thinking in the first place. :)

That one. Not the Ghandi one. The Ghandi one wasn't there when I started my response.

This certainly gives one hope!

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GaryD,

I had no trouble with Paganplace's posts. And here is a Gandhi gem:

"The day you stop talking about how good Christianity is and start living it, everyone will want to become a Christian."
- Mohandas K. Gandhi, to an evangelical in India, who asked him why the Christian preaching was not getting any converts.

I have to agree with you Mr. Chopra.

Religion stakes too much on its own tradition to be very effective tool for looking forward or forging new paths (at least the more prominent of the established religions).

In Christianity, all authority comes from very long ago - the Bible, the succession of Popes, etc - so that whenever anyone wants guidance today, they must look back to 'wiser' times a thousand or more years ago.

Nowadays, religions are left interpretting what ancient bits of wisdom are relevant today and which can be ignored, which can be altered for modern times and which must remain exactly as they are written. Even as religions slowly update themselves, they are always stuck in the past assuming this 'ever-empowering knowledge' existed long long ago - leaving us with the subliminal thought that in order for the present to be 'good' we must constantly look to the past.

That being said, I do think religion can provide limited help with the process of moving beyond racism and sexism. I do not feel it will be the driving force in this change, but I do think it can offer a certain amount of assistance. After all, Martin Luther King, Jr. was a pastor first and look at the progress he created with the Civil Rights movement.

Hundreds of years ago, people used the Bible as rationale for why God gave his OK to slavery. Today, no one could argue that point and be serious at the same time. Religion is a hinderance to social progress only in the sense of someone going 35mph on the 75mph highway of today.

Amen.

Umm, 'Hello,'

"Keep on truckin' swami!"

So, I take it you're saying racism is a bigger problem for you right now. Or is that just cause he's not being female right now? :)

'Garbled,' Gary?

Check your receiver.

Gandhi. Stop. Most influential thinker and actor against bigotry in century twentieth. Stop. Seminal influence on recent social change. Stop. Not Christian. Stop.

Get it? :)

As for wisdom, well, knowledge you can gather like so many objects. Wisdom is in what to do with it. Knowing less is never inherently wiser. :)

Well, you have a point about racism. People obscure so many things by looking at race. You seem so enlightened. Of course, whenever some guy from India babbles on about "consciousness" it sounds cool.

Gotta love ya, Dee. You're like Uri Geller without the spoons. Keep on truckin' swami!

Pagan could you please clarify that last response? It came through more than a little garbled.

Chris We know more than we ever did and are no wiser for it.

I mean, really, Gary. If I had to pick a *single most influential thinker of the 20th century,* (And , honestly, I don't have a theological bias toward figuring real change is made by individuals laying down words,) ...I'd really just have to go with Gandhi. He certainly didn't *start* the changes-for-the-better we've seen in the world, but I think he's the man who really *crystallized* what was moving in the world, and around which so much else grew.

And he wasn't Christian. He was a Hindu with strong interfaith understandigs.

" garyd:

"Mr. Chopra your ignorance of history is truly astounding. Until quite recently Christian thinkers have been at the forefront of every significant social advance the world has made."

Umm, actually, according to some who discount the rest of the world, Christian thinkers have been at the forefront of *everything,* including, conspicuously, every *regressive* movement in recent history.

That's cause these same bigotries only *count* Christians as thinking in the first place. :)

Mr. Chopra your ignorance of history is truly astounding. Until quite recently Christian thinkers have been at the forefront of every significant social advance the world has made.

There were far more Christians in the North actively opposed to slavery than there were in the South fighting to preserve it. It was Christians ended the Gladitorial games. The two biggest not for profit adoption services in the world are Run by The Catholics and the Lutherans. And both the Cathoics and Lutherans and I believe the Presbyterians have social service branches.

It's a good essay, Dr. Chopra, but, just on this:

"Religion was one of the chief bulwarks of this world view, so turning to it for a remedy seems ironic. I'd put much more trust in the growing spiritual movement outside the church. "

While I agree that I too put more *trust* in spirituality outside the churches as a major force against racism and sexism, I also think that the churches which have traditionally been major *sources* of these bigotries have a potential, if not obligation, to fight these things where they've so often come from.

If they choose to.

Many should be given some credit for *trying,* even if some are really just kind of negotiating with the idea of fighting bigotry, ...still not really willing to give up on some of the premises that have led to that bigotry in the first place, ... and some simply try redefining the issues, like, "This isn't sexist, it's the Bible. It can't be sexist. Women just have their place and should stay in it,"

...Or they transfer the bigotry into issues and frameworks of other minorities, on the basis of something like, "It's OK to hate gays if you call it love." or "It's OK to hate brown people if they're Muslim or might be 'illegal immigrants."

They often recast the traditional bigotries as being "about the 'sins' we accuse them of, not the colors of their skins," ...claiming that groups they hate aren't really groups at all, but a bunch of walking 'sins.'

But at least the idea that racism and sexism are *good,* full stop, is something that many of them have fought, and it's not always 'image therapy.'

It's something, anyway. A bit of support and credit for those working on it is in order, though, one wonders what the holdup is at times.

For a lighter look at religious superstition have a listen to these. There are 5 different mini-broadcasts:

http://www.talkshoe.com/tc/35706

I agree with the majority of the conclusions Dr. Chopra has made in this article especially the last sentence: "Anyone who aspires to raise his or her consciousness can begin here; the results will be far more rewarding than any legislative movement that puts the right laws in place while allowing the wrong attitudes to fester."

But while I definitely think that each individual has the responsibility to be compassionate toward their fellow human with unconditional love and support, would not a collective conscious mechanism of responsibility be a future goal? One problem with our current inability to fully sustain an enlightened world is our selfish economic systems that encourage selfish motivations in our daily lives. With cooperative economic systems in place, we would not have to struggle for survival in a selfish manner.
It is difficult to recognize our egocentric nature whenever it arises but through mindful practice and enlightened education, we could be on the right path.

Of course, there is a strong movement for changing consciousness through many modern spiritual disciplines but it is still prevalent in many cultures that if one communicates such extreme evolution of consciousness one will be attacked. And, in our history, sometimes crucified! But would the great teachers and prophets want us to limit our attempts to further their teachings because of our pessimism? Or should we be eternally optimistic about a future where the essence of their teachings comes to fruition.

Since sexism and racism ultimately are rooted in either personal selfishness or group/cultural selfishness, the following is appropriate now:
to quote the great American Christian minister Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.: “Every man must decide whether he will walk in the light of creative altruism or in the darkness of destructive selfishness.”

It is a bit unfair to cite negative examples of Christianity's impact in these areas, say that the "spiritual movement outside the church" is what you trust, and then give no positive examples of just what it is doing.

Over the last 2000 years, the Church would provide some of the bad, but most of the good. Worldviews of all types have been represented in cultures, with violence, isms, etc... present in each.

Your conclusion that the 'isms represent one side of human nature is very much in accord with Christian doctrine. However, the Christian dualistic nature is not a matter of unevolved and evolved-- it is being controlled by the sinful nature on one hand, and being a new creation, controlled by the spirit on the other.

Evidence does not support the idea that as time passes (and humans evolve morally, as you would say), humans are improving. We are richer than ever; Americans give less than 2% of their income to charity. We have removed racist laws; violent crime has increased. The internet has helped connect us globally and promote international unity; identity theft wrecks lives.