Start with Shared Notion of One Creator

Matt: "The problem, however, arises when you consider the scientific nature of Ockham's Razor and how it plays into the role of creation. Once this is realized, the Abrahamic monotheistic traditions make the most sense concerning creation."
Sorry, but 'magic' isn't actually a scientific object. The Abrahamic god uses magic, powers outside science, physics-defying feats to create the universe. God's existence itself lies outside the scientific realm. Using a scientific test to prove/disprove a supernatural creator is ridiculous. The Abrahamic god is no more or less likely to stand up to ANYONE's Razor than any other mythological, all knowing, all powerful, supernatural being. To say that the Abrahamic god passes the Razor is to inject raw subjectivity into the task. That is hardly scientific. God(s) must be believed in as a matter of faith, not science.(until we find the babelfish) For some reason, all gods make themselves unavailable for seismographs, geiger counters, simple weight measuring devices, MRI scans, and even carbon dating. Why should they fall in line for Ockham ?

Though raised a Christian, I too at one point, pondered the possibility of polytheism and multiple "gods" while I read and explored various pagan religions.

The problem, however, arises when you consider the scientific nature of Ockham's Razor and how it plays into the role of creation. Once this is realized, the Abrahamic monotheistic traditions make the most sense concerning creation.

att B L U E F I R E W I T C H, et al @ 1:44Pm

Interesting: Seems Like The Californian Courts creat lots of Waves, so to spaketh: From the Pledge to Non-Straight Rights etc..

Excerpt:

"Documentarian Michael Moore's book Mike's Election Guide 2008 suggests that whoever wins the 2008 Election updates the pledge to a modern version. He suggests:

“ I pledge allegiance to the people of the United States of America, and to the republic, for which we stand, one nation, part of ONE-WORLD, with liberty and justice for all."

Please See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Pledge_of_Allegiance

But OUR (O.ne U.niversal R.eligio Book) Version is,

"“ I pledge allegiance to the people of the United States of America, and to the republic, for which we stand, one nation On Space-Ship Earth, with liberty and justice for Every, any & ALL Momma/Poppa Earths Automatic Citizenz/Denizens." [Inhabitants]."

Goodbye Judeo-Judaism,
Goodbye Judeo-Christianism,
Goodbye Judeo-Islamisism..;

All ABRAHAMIC: AND

Goodbye Vedic-Hinduism,
Goodbye Vedic-Budhisism,
Goodbye Vedic Confusionism..;

ALL VEDIC.

--- There is HOPE!

Instead:

Sing HELLO to The New-Song Cometh From All OUR old Songs, aka The HOLY-i "Cosmic Feeler's Faith" SYSTEM! A Religion for The Secular, The Agnostic & Apocalyptarian Nationals Anywhere on 'Blue-Dot!

Hallaluya! Praise Unto the Holy-i NO-MAN nor NO-WOMAN, But Only "IT" or "iTSELF" being what it is Evolving , in & out side of Us All;

A Together Forever Experience like no Other!

Remember: "IT" or "iTSELF" is neither a He or a She; Justly only "IT"! aka NEW Name for G-d ; by 1,0000 names & no longer 99 names!

Eeeeee Haaaaa! HALLALUYA "IT"!

Hence i [WE] Pledge allegiance to "IT!"

How can a step backward be a step ahead? To revive the myth that man and his universe had a supernatural creator is worse than a childish faith,it is extremely dangerous in many ways.

are you ever off base.
what makes you think that islam has the same god as the jews or christians?
the islamic god called allah - which just happens to be the last name of moho's father - bin allah - cant possibly be the god of abraham or christ. here is why.
the god of abraham said that the jews would be his people and he would be their god.
the god of christ was the god of abraham as jesus was a jew and followed all the jewish laws, except some ritual cleaniness ones.
the god of islam - aka allah - told his followers to hate jews and christians, to not do business with them or be their friends, and in fact to kill them.
it appears the god of islam decided that the best thing to do was to kill the only two groups on the earth that believed in him, jews and christians.
here is a truth for you - islam is not a religion - it is a death cult - bent on world destruction and the murder of anyone not islamic, and a good number of the worlds population that is islamic.
and the worst part - is all the evil that islam does is commanded by the koran to be done.
so a jew or christian must deny his obligations under those religions to engage in murder or torture or kidnappins, but an islamic is following his koran and hadith when he does the same vile things.
the point to be understood is that a good person can no more be an islamic than a nazi or a member of the kkk. if you are an islamic you are anything but a good person.

The shared notion of one creator? I beg to differ. There is a growing movement in the US and other countries of Neopaganism, a grouping of religions with many gods. Glorifying monotheism is unconstitutional.

I'm glad they're ranked. Is there a website?

And don't tell me who my "creator" is or isn't, thank you.

It doesn't matter whether there is one creator or 21 million creators. That misses the point. Western religion has not kept up with science. Christianity is a disaster, dogma mixed with politics is never a good idea. Theologically that puts us Christians in about in the 13th century. And Israel, a Jewish state? Don't we criticize Iran for being a "religious state?" How does Israel get off being a "religious state," and then in the next breath describe themselves as a "young democracy." I really don't understand these contradictions. I don't think most of the world does either. And for Christians to be so boisterous and bigoted and intolerant of late is certainly not the kind of public relations that one would consider beneficial to any kind of rational society. And with Israel always on the quick to strike against Palestinians despite their forced exile of 900,000 people, short memories and lack of imagination about a future based on reciprocity, I'm not real big on religion right now.

iMAGINE:

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O.ne U.niversal R.eligion is-US!

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United States of The LEVANT
where (North) is Seperate from
the (South) ARABiA. A Prophecy
whose time is cometh.
--

YES WE CAN!

Salaam, Shalom, Peace, Paz, Mir, Frieden, Ahimsa, Zhingyu...

I'm sure that Rabbi Wolpe's a wonderful guy, but I almost fell out of my chair when I read this:

"Named the No. 1 Rabbi in America by Newsweek magazine, David Wolpe is the Rabbi of Sinai Temple in Los Angeles, Calif."

Really!

I guess Newsweek truly is omniscient. I'd be interested in knowing who the No. 10,000 Rabbi is.

Newsweek could put an end to a lot of the unpleasant debates here at On Faith if they'd just let us know who the No. 1 God is.

"The shared notion of one Creator ought to carry with it the belief in universal kinship"
With all due respect #1 Rabbi, this statement is incredibly naive. Thousands of years of history have shown us that 'ought' is just not reality. Just because the two religions speak of the same god, it is hardly a shared ideal. If the two religions were indeed of any 'shared notion' then why are they seperate relgions to begin with? Quite simply because of their deep, sincere, and passionate differences in interpretation of that god and his will for 'his people'.
As long as countries base their military operations on religious interpretation and zeal, we shall continue to suffer wars against infidels.
Religions have failed consistently to prevent war, terror, evil, and mayhem.

Seperation of religion and nation/law will do far more to bring about peace than any tenuous religious or theocratic agreement.

Any discussion regarding how to obtain peace and a sense of tranquility among nations as well as peoples must be predicated on our ultimate individual and collective trust not only in the Creator God, but in his Son, the Messiah. Only He as the Prince of Peace is the hope for this fallen and desperate world.

The idea of 'a' creater of the universe
just doesn't make sense to me. If there
is such an enity, they could certainly
simply step forward and make his/her existance
clear by extending the use of such powers.

Personally, I see churches and the competition
between them as the most successful form
of creating centers of wealth. They sell
a series of intangibles such as 'forgiveness',
the promise of existing as a long term spiritual enity and other things which raise 'contentment'
but are unable to extend beyond this life to
offer concrete proof that such an extention is
possible.

Lady's 1st: Soja John Thaikattil, Sydney, Australia:

Men 2nd: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated: et al!

Eeeeeeeee Haaaaaa!

Given what the world is like, it is obvious to anyone that it was created by a committee!

The problem with the concept of 'One Creator' is the fact that the way creation occured in the respective holy books don't match - even the two versions in Genesis don't add up. Certainly none have any credibility when placed against what we now know about the universe. It is the concept that people were 'created' and then given certain lands to be their own and are special in the eyes of 'their Creator' that is the root cause of this conflict. Only by dispelling the notion of a 'Creator' can we move past the differences that belief in a special 'Creator' causes and unite as a single humanity.

Rabbi Wolpe,

Welcome to "On faith" it's good to have you here.

You said: "The shared notion of one Creator ought to carry with it the belief in universal kinship"

And what of those who do not share the notion of one creator?
I'm sorry Rabbi, I know that you are a reasonable man but the title of your essay illuminates the problem not the solution. You say "start with the notion of one creator". Right away you exclude atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans, and many more. This whole problem is because people believe in the deluded notion of a personal creator. All monotheistic religions think that the world will be at peace if everyone just accepts their notion of one creator. This is the problem, not the solution.

I am for freedom of religion.
But this "shared notion of one creator" line, is anti freedom of religion. It is a call for all to stand behind monotheism. This is not problem solving, this is problem creating, and has been from the very start of monotheism.

I would change the title of your essay to "Start with the shared notion of freedom of religion", or just plain old freedom. I have no problem with the notion of "universal kinship" as you call it, but monotheism stands in the way of any universal kinship with the Buddhists, the Hindus, the atheists among others.

It is difficult to believe that the participants of what is going on in the Middle East are sane. It is easy to believe they DO NOT believe in God. God stated explicitly in the Ten Commandments to not kill. All of this baloney that we are acting in the name of the lord is simply untrue. We are acting in the name of Man.

The Jews that we Christians so slavishly serve do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God. The Muslims that Americans hate so much also do not believe the Son of God was Jesus. Why is America involved in this mess at all? Could it be that Americans do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God? Could it be that Americans do not believe in God?

If you cannot believe that Jesus was the Son of God, then you cannot believe in God. How can there be s shared creator when the people in the insane asylum called the Middle East as well as the main player in the conflict, America, do not believe that there is a creator?

First, I "ditto" Soja's remarks about Rabbi Wolpe.

Second, the Conservative Jews have concluded that much in the Old Testament is myth. www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

A major question therefore is "are the atrocities listed in the OT, also mythical". I believe they are but it would be great to have an expert like Rabbi Wolpe to declare them mythical or at least highly embellished accounts.

To wit: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstatv.htm#Biblical

"Exodus 32: 3,000 Israelites killed by Moses for worshipping the golden calf.

Numbers 31: After killing all men, boys and married women among the Midianites, 32,000 virgins remain as booty for the Israelites. (If unmarried girls are a quarter of the population, then 96,000 people were killed.)

Joshua:

Joshua 8: 12,000 men and women, all the people of Ai, killed.

Joshua 10: Joshua completely destroys Gibeon ("larger than Ai"), Makeddah, Libnah, Lachish, Eglon, Hebron, Debir. "He left no survivors."

Joshua 11: Hazor destroyed. [Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews (1987), estimates the population of Hazor at ?> 50,000]
TOTAL: if Ai is average, 12,000 x 9 = 108,000 killed.

Judges 1: 10,000 Canaanites k. at Battle of Bezek. Jerusalem and Zephath destroyed.

Judges 3: ca. 10,000 Moabites k. at Jordan River.

Judges 8: 120,000 Midianite soldiers k. by Gideon

Judges 20: Benjamin attacked by other tribes. 25,000 killed.

1 Samuel 4: 4,000 Isrealites killed at 1st Battle of Ebenezer/Aphek. 30,000 Isr. k. at 2nd battle.
David:

2 Samuel 8: 22,000 Arameans of Damascus and 18,000 Edomites killed in 2 battles.

2 Samuel 10: 40,000 Aramean footsoldiers and 7,000 charioteers killed at Helam.

2 Samuel 18: 20,000 Israelites under Absalom killed at Ephraim.

1 Kings 20: 100,000 Arameans killed by Israelites at Battle of Aphek. Another 27,000 killed by collapsing wall.

2 Chron 13: Judah beat Israel and inflicted 500,000 casualties.

2 Chron 25: Amaziah, king of Judah, k. 10,000 from Seir in battle and executed 10,000 POWs. Discharged Judean soldiers pillaged and killed 3,000.

2 Chron 28: Pekah, king of Israel, slew 120,000 Judeans

TOTAL: That comes to about 1,283,000 mass killings specifically enumerated in the OT."

Dear Rabbi Wolpe

As a long time admirer of yours (my comments posted on the Sam Harris blog after watching your debate with him on the video link) I'm delighted to note you have become one of the panelists and will be posting here from the perspective of a conservative Jew.

I agree the time of conquest of others' lands is past and we must preserve and promote what peace we can among nations that exist today. The world's resources are getting rarer and it is imperative that we all do our bit in leaving some of it for future generations. We must leave something other than death and destruction to them to cope with. The world as we know it now will come to an end, but let us all work together not to hasten the end.

As an American Jew you have the unique power to contribute significantly to speeding up the peace processes and two state solutions in the Middle East, so that Jews in Israel and the Muslims in Palestine may live as brothers and sisters and good neighbors. I believe miracles do sometimes happen.

Hallaluya! Praise The Holyi-NO-Man/WOMB!

Behold: Soon Soon, The Religio of Everything, before the Science of Everything cometh.

Hark, as foretold in ALL ye 'Automatic Citizens/Denizens' infuxus-Books [ABRAHAMIC:Tenach,Bible,QURAN & VEDiC: Geeta, Kangyur, Sruti's..] The "OUR-BOOK of Reality" is come, aka thee "O.ne U.niversal R.eligion Bible, aka the "ULTRA-BiBLE OF THE FUTURE."

Drink & Sing unto the Holyi No-Man/Womb!

Praise "IT" [a.k.a. Hashem, ishvara, Yaweh, Allah, G-d by 1,000 names; No more by names]., aka "iTSEL doing what "IT" is becomuing, in & out of Us ALL!

If Sister Moon, Brother Mars et al , according to the U.N's "INTERNATIONAL SPACE TREATY (that needs a desperate Amendment or correction/fixin) belongs to each & every 'Automatic Citizen/Denizen ever Borneth Here; THEN

This Holy-i, Cosmic Built, Space-Ship; A Miracle in Motion, also , not Justly Sister Luna etc.., Belongs Space-Forthly & Futureboundly to 'THE-PEOPLE'!

One (1) is better than Zero (0)! Therefore: 'Source-One' is the only (like the #1) Number that sais "IT" is #1 and No other!

Remember: We are Each & Forever Students of SOURCE-ONE & We Never Graduate! How bout Ye?