Hagee's Jewish Endorsers

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I am a christian from India. We Indians at no point in time persecuted jewish people. The Bible I read put in me a strong love and affection for our jewish brothern. I know, same feeling of affection millions of christians feel for Israel and jewish people, like John Hagee and evangelical christians of USA and from all over the world. I always wondered how the so called christians of Europe could hate and kill so many jews!!

But it surprises me a lot, the passionate attack from many jewsih brothern on John Hagee and like minded Christians. It do sadden me a lot.

Rev. Hagee supports the Jews like Col. Sanders supports the chickens. Enough said.

Do jews not understand that people like the rev. only support the jews because its part of their plan to bring jesus back?You need to create the destruction of isreal and the jews who convert will be the ones saved?Why would any jew in his right mind support these people?

Do jews not understand that people like the rev. only support the jews because its part of their plan to bring jesus back?You need to create the destruction of isreal and the jews who convert will be the ones saved?Why would any jew in his right mind support these people?

Thank you for being rational.

Spidey,

I just love your "everybody is so stupid except me" arguments. They're very persuasive.

Of course it is not God's plan that idiots like Hitler should rule the world. But it is God's plan that idiots like atheists, communists, false-god worshippers will be doomed, not because by a direct act of God, but by their own STUPIDITY.

Of course it is not God's plan that idiots like Hitler should rule the world. But it is God's plan that idiots like atheists, communists, false-god worshippers will be doomed, not because by a direct act of God, but by their own STUPIDITY.

Of course it is not God's plan that idiots like Hitler should rule the world. But it is God's plan that idiots like atheists, communists, false-god worshippers will be doomed, not because by a direct act of God, but by their own STUPIDITY.

Maybe, just maybe, G-d permitted the Holocaust and 9-11 to give us all an opportunity to employ the Whig Interpretation used by America's Founders, to rediscover the knowable Anti-Christ...and do the right thing about it? Sort of a "test," to see who will do right, and who won't.

Goldhagen proves, in "A Moral Reckoning," that Rome, known by America's Whig Founder and Prophet to be "the real Anti-Christ," is morally, legally, and ethically culpable of the Holocaust. Read the proof yourself...(part of the "test").

Professor Griffin's unassailable scholarship proves Hitler's banker's grandson, Cheney, et at, committed 9-11. Read it yourself...or just Google his name. Some of his scholarship is downloadable for free...(part of the "test").

Turns out the same families and institutions that financed Hitler and the Holocaust are behind the homosexual draft-dodger cheated into the White House by only the Roman Catholics on the Supreme Court...the same faction Thomas Jefferson, America's Founder and Prophet, said was the Anti-Christ.

If Anti-Christ/Amalek is knowable...maybe G-d is too?

Life and The Universe are obviously "miraculous." Who lacks imagination to reconcile the miraculous with the Divine.

Annuit Coeptis: All true Americans are charged with appreciation of the Mottoes.

www.theamericanfundament.blogspot.com

N.B. copy this post, someone on this site is practicing censorship...

Pat Knopf:

John McCain has denounced John Hagee, does that make him an supporter of Iran?

If you agree with John Hagee that the Holocaust was part of God's plan for Israel and if you had been in Germany in 1943, would you have assisted in God's plan or would you have tried to stop it?

If Jehovah really wnated to give the Jews a Promised Land, why didn't he just make a big piece of land no one was living on? Joshua had to exterminate the erstwhile dwellers "by the edge of the sword" -- hardly much of a gift from God. Like my saying to you, "I'm giving you all the land over there in Mexico -- now, just go ahead and take your gift, by invading it and killing them all."
Now we have Haggee telling us that to get the Jews back to the Promised Land, He (God) put them aboard trains to Auswitz. Again, an omniptent God, who could create Land, or even another planet, if he so deemed, certainly chose a pretty cruel route.
It all looks like a crock, this story of God and the Promised Land. A fable to whip up some desert tribes into a slaughtering frenzy of genocidic territorial expansion, and which has survived into modern times in the form of a more humane religion (but with the seeds of visicous cruelty still planted within it).

I wonder why Hagee has not spoken out yet about how 9/11 is part of God's Plan. Sort of ironic, isn't it -- as those terrorists careened in on the Twin Towers they were convinced that God wanted them to do it, as part of His plan. Now we find a Christian televangelist who believes the same thing (it follows from his logic), but he hasn't come out to say it yet. Why not?

Some religions hold that man is made is God's image. It would be a bitter irony if God turned out to be a bigot.

Interesting how the author of this piece is so willing to refrain from allaying with Hagee, yet him and others are so willing to be so overly nice to Israel's enemies who have outrightly said they are going to wipe Israel away.

It seems you love your enemies more than you do your friends. No wonder you and your left handed friends have no answer to the bombs that keep raining down on Israel.

Just because you have Jewish blood in your family tree does not mean you love Israel more than Pastor John Hagee. He has done more for Israel than you have every dreamed of.

The Reverend should go to that passage in the bible that warns that a wagging tongue can do a lot of damage and that it is often better to say nothing. In fact, throughout the new testament we are held liable for our own actions. It recognises that we make choices.

What is the point of spending time saying this to Reverend Hagee if he does not want to listen and just wants to tell us what we should think.

According to Hagee's rationale, God is making sure that I regard Hagee as a bigot and that I oppose him. I do not accept this. I recognise that God gave me a mind that thinks.

Is it true that Lieberman spoke at a Hagee
meeting for 'Christians for Israel" last year?
For McCain?

God, that's so funny.

Or not. People getting sick of it. Whole subject, and Americans are in a very bad mood.

Hagee is little more than a bloated, self-important religious pimp who is increasing his own wealth--and girth--by selling fear and mistrust.

If that nut job John Hagee and others like him really do believe we are living in the End Times and the "rapture" is just around the corner, then why don't they put their money where their mouths are and divest themselves of all material wealth and hit the road with their preaching like Jesus said they should do if they were true followers?

People have been saying the End Times were here ever since the concept was first proposed 2000 yrs ago. And they've all been WRONG.

If they actually read their own scriptures they see the last days would be filled with false prophets, etc, etc. But False prophets have always been around.

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
-- Thomas Paine, 1794

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason: The Morning Daylight appears plainer when you put out your Candle."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1758

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, 1823

2 words:
hashgacha pratis

Reading these threads must make the one being that Jews, Christians, and even Muslim's agree exists: SATAN. I have never read such maliciousness and hatred between supposed God fearing peoples. Hagee may be wrong but then again he may be correct. Who cares. He will be naked and starring the King of the Jews in the face someday. If he was wrong he will be dealt with by the only one who is and should be Devil pleased. By the way so will you and I be starring that same King in the eye someday, so try to put on Love when dealing with other members of the body of Christ since he commanded you to. Peace.

It is highly likely that persecution of the Jews shall come in the U.S. from Hagee's and other heretics' fold. Likewise, when that time comes, the only true Holy Catholic Church of Christ shall be there to protect the Jews from the hatred of Luther's followers as it happened during the Shoah. For more information read Rabbi Dalin's massive work ("The Myth of Hitler's Pope") on the protection of Jews by the Church throughout the ages.

Politics makes strange bedfellows. McCain appears dazed and incompetent.

>I do not share Rev. Hagee’s belief that God controls every action here on Earth

The god Saperstein and Hagee believe in is either omnipotent or not. If the former, then the god in which they believe must by definition plan all that happens, and that includes events like the Holocaust.

Saperstein, unlike Hagee, won't admit this logical conundrum for those who believe in an omnipotent god. Hagee din't claim Hitler and the Nazis were good, only that they were directed in their actions by Hagee's god.

If a god isn't omnipotent? If, for example, we pray (i.e. wish) for god to act a certain way, or to change what seems otherwise inevitable, then that god may be more powerful than a human, but scarcely worth worshiping.

Although Jewish Americans may look at Christian fundamentalism through the prism of how it affects Israel, there are in fact other major consequences of this religion which adversely affects American society as a whole. First and foremost, this movement began as a reaction to government-forced segregation in the 1960s with the opening up of Christian-oriented private schools. As a result, tens of millions of Americans have now gone through these Christian madrassass with little idea of how a secular society ought to function, and with little or no exposure to modern scientific thought and theory. Once these people moved into the political arena, they contributed to a breakdown of the moderate political consensus which had governed the country since Depression. Oh, yes, we got a favorable lowering of taxes but we also got a whole host of other unfavorable things too. By uncritically using these Christian fundamentalists for their own purposes to help fund settlements on the West Bank, these Jewish Zionists have done the nation no favor. But I suppose they don't care about the consequences to their own country as long as they believe it helps Israel. In fact, by enraging Arab public opinion, they are actually doing far more harm to Israel's long term prospects for survival than if Israel had just learned to desalinate more water and live within its 1967 boundaries. Some day, our Chinese, Indian and Arab creditors will step in to put an end to this madness, but in the meantime we're stuck with idiots. Obama offered a ray of hope, but with his statement about "strong support" of Israel, it looks like he's now drinking the Kool-Aid served up by the Israeli lobby also.

Lieberman embraced Hagee and even called him a successor to Moses. I almost threw up but then Lieberman has that effect on me.

For a Jew to embrace someone who thinks that Jesus will return and slaugher every Jew who does not convert, throwing the person's soul into a fiery lake of damnation is sick. It's like a lamb going up to a lion and saying "I'm delicious."

My deepest sympathies ( and contempt) to any Jew who stupidly thinks these fundamentalists have any real care for Israel or Jews.

Sadly it shows, just like the right wing neo-con agenda, that some people are so dumb and short-sighted they will accept anyone who sounds pro-Israel and condemn anyone as anti-Semitic who looks to long term, fair and broad solutions to difficult and complex issues.

Rev. Hagee and his ilk only want Jews present for their own misbegotten reasons and then all Jews get to perish unless like the idiot Joe Lieberman they turn on their own to suck up to the powerful to retain some influence.

It's called the "Rapture". Hagee cares nothing about Jews. He only sees Israel as a necessary step in bringing about "The Second Coming".

'I do not share Rev. Hagee’s belief that God controls every action here on Earth'

This statement places Reform Judaism firmly on the side of Liberation Theologians in the Catholic Church, Unitarians, Episcopalians and Liberal Protestantism generally.

It's only a small step from God is not omnipotent to Man is the Measure of All Things, and these quasi-religions have taken that step irreversibly.

Wow.

This thread really shows the crazy, bat-sh*t crazy, attitudes of those who follow "religion."

Double, triple, Wow, wow, wow.

Dr. Lou's comments are right on.
Hagee is no friend of the Jews nor for Christians, for that matter.

What vile seminaries do creatures like Hagee and others crawl from? Where do they learn their rhetoric?

Hey Alex Campbell you said that,
"The only church leader that God does not talk to is the Pope." Why would you need to talk to "God" when your title claims that you represent "Christ on Earth". Just act godlike towards your members and converts, an "amazingly narcissistic form of Christendom" is at practice in Rome.

It is indeed unfortunate that any Jewish people believe Hagge is their friend. The facts are that he is totally against their rule in Palestine. He believes that they will all become Christians at a certain Apocalyptic time. The so called Fundamentalists, like him, will take over. You can bet that this obese blunderbus will choose the highest hill overlooking all of the Holy Land as he leads his invasion of the place on earth he least deserves.

Hagge bears none of the marks of Christ. He and his blind followers have gone completely astray of the love and compassion Jesus Christ brought to our world and to our lives.

Matt

The manner in which many Jewish leaders had flocked to embrace Rev. Hagee in spite of his intolerances towards so many other people and their ways of life has really highlighted the inherent bigotry of any socially exclusive ideology no matter how old and or sacred. The state of Israel had a special relationship with Botha's apartheid regime in South Africa, despite that regimes despicable mistreatment and atrocious killing of Africans. Rev. Hagee's complex relationship with the Jewsih community can be likened in stark similarities with the attitudes of certain abolitionists, racists and KKK leaders who felt compelled to encourage the relocation of "Negroes" in America back to Africa. Even though Marcus Garvey agreed with those repatriation zealots his ultimate motives was for the betterment of the human race, he mistakenly thought that Africans in Africa would be allowed to grow and flourish own their own terms just like present day Jewish Israelis, ask Liberians how liberated they have been.

The majority of pro-Israel evangelical groups have as a primary motive, Jewish conversion. I called the "Wings of Eagles" ministry and the telephone rep admitted that was their goal. These repatriation groups prey on eastern European Jews and so-called "Lost Tribes" Jews from various third world countries. They dangle free air fare and resettlement help with the hope of planting grateful messianic Jews in Israel. In the meantime these "ministries" grow and their inner circles grow wealthy. The ultimate goal is to create a self-fulfilling prophecy on the ground to usher in the "end of days".

The only church leader that God does not talk to is the Pope.

Somewhere in the core of my being, whereever that "feeling" comes from, I find it very uncomfortable that you would say, without exception, "Jews can empathize with Sen. McCain because we have faced the same dilemma with Rev. Hagee."

As an Jew born and raised in the U.S., I hope (and certainly believe) that there are many of us who don't cast our lot with someone simply because they "support" Israel, regardless of what that means in and of itself. I've only recently read and seen a sample of some of Hagee's life-held beliefs and rhetoric and I can say without question or equivocation that there would never be a "dilemma" for me or many other "Jews".

Please, just speak for yourself.

This is the political season, so the politicians must be very careful not to be seen as being close to anyone or anything that might offend a potential supporter. But I am a Christian. I don't suffer from this condition. My support of Israel is borne out of God promise to Abraham that he will, "Bless those that bless you and curse those that curse you." The Jews have been the chosen people of God since Abraham. That has not changed. As a Christian, I was adopted into the Jewish family through Abraham. He and I share the same faith in God. Hagee's comments regarding Hitler are his own speculation. The passage in Jeremiah he cited does have an explanation and his speculative explanation may or mat not be correct. Hayford's comments, on the other hand, that Islam is anti-Christ is true. Read the Koran and commentaries of it's religious scholars. Jesus said, "Many are called, but few are chosen." This is still true today. Many hear the good news that salvation is available through Christ, but few choose to accept it.

As a Jew, I have remained astounded that so many of my brothers and sisters have rallied to Hagee and those others who share his vicious philosophy and presentation. But unlike many of my fellow Jews, I have had no dilemma in communicating my disgust for abject rejection of Hagee's shallow hatred and, unlike Rabbi Saperstein, most definitely do consider Hagee's positions ultimately anti-Semitic.

I very much appreciate Rabbi Saperstein's argument to reject Hagee but also do not agree with his contention that Hagee's presumed support for Israel is given "...for its own sake." No, Mr. Hagee's position is also rooted in another fundamentalist Christian model which is rarely referenced by Jews and others who want to believe that his support for Israel reflect love for and respect of Jews.

Integral to the fundamentalist Christian model of the world is the eventual Apocalypse. In brief, this event includes an anti-Christ, the coming of Christ, and the eternal torment of ALL those not ready to convert to Hagee's form of intolerant and amazingly narccistic form of Christendom. And high on that list of ALL, of course, includes Jews who will reject the Rapture and will instead devolve into fire and eternal horror. This is fully anti-Semitic in its forced conversion or ultimate damnation model. If anybody has doubts, realize that Apocalypse writing has a readership paying tens of millions of dollars to read simplistic death filled fantasy literature represented as religion framed by the New Testament.

Now, the ONLY way for this bizarre event to occur, you see, is for Jews to command and rule over a single and unified JEWISH Israel. I capitalize Jewish here inasmuch as the current political construct of Israel remains somewhat at odds with this particular Christian precept. This is, therefore, a principle reason why Hagee, Pat Robertson, and many others have allied themselves financially and (apparently) philosophically with Israel; that is, towards eternal damnation of one (Jews and others) for the Rapture of another (themselves).

So, even while Rabbi Saperstein's rejection of Hagee is very appropriate, the continued misrepresentation of Hagee's purported support for Israel is mis-directed. And even if we uniformly rejected Hagee and clearly communicated that we were less impressed with his purported 'support' for Israel, I'd expect that he would not back off very far from his financial and structural supports for Eretz Yisroael. Quite frankly, I shiver when I see Jewish organizations and representatives playing up to the Hagees of Christendom.

After all, Hagee's only real hope of his own reaching heaven is that his constructed fundamentalist precepts and the Apocalypse are perfectly accurate. If it turns out that the 'all knowing' and all controlling god of intolerance and hatred that he so desperately needs to believe in is not in charge, he and many of his colleagues are likely to be quite surprised when they eventually approach the gates of Heaven and find themselves quite unwelcome.

This is because my god reflects tolerance and interconnectivity and would thereby reject Hagee outright and see Hagee's form of theology for what it is; socially repugnant, destructive, hateful, intolerant, and virulent in its very representation.

Idiots examining their stupid navals ad naseum.
(or longer)

on a subject that disgusts most people and which should in any case be in some backwater jewish
magazine where they can boast of their superiority in blissful secret.

The bible and talmud were written by jews who spend their time writing how everything is theirs and God chose them.

Somebody write a Bible that says San Francisco belongs to me.

I find it interesting that John McCain did not think it was necessary for him to distance himself from this lunatic untill now. He had expressed anti gay, anti Catholic, anti Islam and anti Black rantings in his twisted sermons in the past. Only when his anti semetic remarks came to light did the straight talk express move to action. This is pandering for the Jewish vote pure and simple. Sometimes I wonder if John McCain is running for the presidency of the USA or Israel with that hypocrite (Joe Lieberman) at his side. May the Good Lord rid this world of these bigots and their apologists.
God Bless America.

Rabbi:

Hagee is a symtom of the problem, not the problem.
Israel's central dilemma is the political reality and dominance of Sharonist zionism and the fellow travellers that for whatever reasons, rationalize and support it, coupled with the political necessity to maximize the perceived political benefit they offer. This won't change anytime soon.

I won't bother to catalogue the historic evils done to the Palestinians, they are well enough known. What is clear is that after sixty years,
symmetric military threats to Israel are not a serious problem in light of the vast military power of Israel in addition to hundreds of nuclear weapons with advanced delivery systems, yet it remains in a trap with consequences asymmetric, political, demographic, regional and geostrategic that worsen by the day.

Hagee and many other Christian fundamentalists who take the various documents of the bible literally, see Israel as God's spiritual and political action on earth and in their case, the precursor to whatever version of end of days they may choose to predict. They support Israel ardently. They have extensive voting power in the United States. They are accepted and thanked by adherents of Sharonist zionism. This will continue whether they secretly despise him as a simple minded idiot. What to do? What will happen next?

It is abundently obvious that there are only three outcomes possible: the first is a full SC 242 peace with the Palestinians, but the Sharonist groups and the Christian fundis are "dead set" against this ever happening. It goes against everything they believe in for biblical reasons and rationalization so dear to them. Witness the continual expansion and colonization of the few remaining Palestian areas of the West Bank.

The second option is a non-sectarian, democratic, and unitary state of Israel/Palestine based firmly upon international law and elemental justic. Again, this is a non-starter to these same two groups.

The third outcome, yet some time in coming, is eventual collapse in the same vein as the Crusader States which were militarily supreme for about a century and a half, but for the same reasons as those listed above, met their ruin in time.

Why worry and debate Hagee and his various ilk?
They are not the problem.

Saperstein, Headlineed in the post, On Faith ANOTHER DAY?

And the Jewish star, or whatever, still on the front page another day?

So much more important than the censured and fired Ghandi, apparently. And everything else.

Good God, so to speak.

Has AIPAC taken over, or the Jerusalem post bought WAPO and no one told us?

Hagee is a first class nut case.

This is another case where we have to question McCain's message,that he (McCain) has the sxperience to be President over Obama.

Let's put a smart adult in the White House, not an old man who is out of touch and lacks the ability to push the envelope and get out of the box to solve tomorrow's issues and problems.

You can't change any of the facts. ALMOST ALL JEWS THINK HAGEE POISON....But a few ec-Commie neocons thought that any "dumb goyim" would do. It's that old Dimitrov line at work: UNITED FRONT!

Truth is, as my Jewish mentors who knew both the evils of Hitler and Stalin taught me: If you dance with the Devil you get burned....The neocons by now are TOAST....but Hagee goes on collecting his cash from the poor dumb fools who think this tub of fraud has the answer for them. To me, that we allow Hagee to advocate loss of OUR rights under his ideas is a tribute to our Founding Fathers. On the other hand, if we don't expose the neocons to light-- proving that they are nothing but war profiteers-- we are not doing our duty to the Republic they gave us, if we can keep it.

Please listen to Terry Gross Interview on Fresh Air with this bigot Hagee, and with an Israelis Journalist. Go to www.NPR.org, look for FRESH AIR program, and go to Past Shows, and click on May 16th interview. This is the American Al-Qaeda.

ALL "religion" is bogus. If all religious "leaders", spokespersons, teachers, theologians were to do useful WORK, actual WORK, instead of spinning their Elmer Gantry mumbo jumbo, we could really seal our borders, do away with those shameful tax evasion scams, and, have fact based conversations.

The GOP wants to have a militaristic policy in the Middle East, but they also court the Religious Right in America. The Jews have studied the Old Testament for thousands of years while the religious right comes up with wildly different comic book interpretation about EXACTLY how event will play out,which generally involves the slaughter of the Jews.

Hagee also keeps one foot in Joel's Army, which are not "American Taliban," they are literally "America's Al Queda," who advocate killing not only abortion clinic workers, but to infiltrate and take over congregations, eventually killing any Christian who does not follow their ultra-violent death cult teachings. Does Hagee's praise of Hitler make more sense now? America's jews should think twice before throwing in with this bunch, who have strong Christian Identity/White Supremacist beliefs.

McCain sought out Hagee's POLITICAL endorsrement. This is not like Obama going to a church run by someone with questionable beliefs. Hagee explicity seeks and brags about his political power and friendships with Bush, and McCain sought his POLITICAL endorsement, which said that they were on the same page.

I find Saperstein’s comments both surprising and disingenuous. I agree with him that advocates of tolerance and diversity must distance themselves from the views of extremists such as Hagee. But I find his comments that he hopes Hagee “continues to support Israel” surprising. Does he really feel comfortable having Hagee stand by his side? I wished Sapersrtein had said that he hopes “ we should distance and denounce Hagee and his views”. Hagee does not support Jews, does not sympathize with their historical suffering, and does not mourn the dark history of the holocaust. But Hagee does support Israel and its destructive and immoral policies towards the Palestinians. And he supports these policies because of his end-times apocalyptic religious views. If we take Hagee as his words, and if we think that he really believes what he reads in the Book of Revelation, we should be fearful of him. When the “end of times” does “come”, Hagee and his supporters would be the first with a sword in one hand, and a Jew’s head in another. Mr. Saperstein’s: Hagee is the worse type of an anti-Semite; while cloaking himself as a friend, he can’t wait for the right “time” to do away with them. Just read his Sermons, and his preaching; he speaks best for himself. Jews must be cautious and suspicious, as many are in Israel, of anyone, especially a Christian fundamentalist, who wants to “out-Jew” them. Many in Israel are weary and worried about Hagee and the likes of him, as they should be.

Rabbi,

You are too kind. How can you describe Rev. Hagee's views as anything but the rantings of a totally deranged person. As Sam Harris points out, In the End of Religion, moderate, intelligent religious leaders such as yourself, must totally disassociate themselves from such extreme views if the positive, uplifting aspects of religious belief are to survive. And, the question of Hagee's anti-semitism--are you not aware of the "end of times" prophesy--all Jews will be converted or burned along with all other innocent non-believing beings. Of course, Hagee is a Jew hater. He is a Christian bigot.

And, why do you not expose McCain's hypocrisy on accepting the Hagee endorsement in the first place. Also, what about your own cynical acceptance of the Zionist support of the religious right, when you know absolutely, how they describe the end for Jews. Your blind and uncritical support for Israel is obvious. This is not what Israel needs at this point in its existence. For its survival, Israel needs positive criticism from supporters who have a "fair minded" view of what sacrifices are necessary to resolve the Mid-East crisis.

Mr. Saperstein,
Sure Hagee is an Israel supporter. Just as the cattleman provides the optimal food and growth conditions for his herd so that he will have the best payoff at slaughter time, Hagee and his fellow fundo-wingnuts look to the success of Israel as a transition to their big payday.

You were and are a fool to have have had positive feelings toward this scoundrel.

If Rev. Hagee's commens about Hitler and tne bible are correct, all bibles should be destroyed.

QUOTE:
drzz:

Great!

jews will support Obama, the guy who hates you the most.
:ENQUOTE

drzz, how did you develop the opinion that Obama hates the Jews?? Is it because you're still swallowing the right-wing (and maybe Hillary-based) Kool-Aid that still thinks he's a Muslim? How conveniently you ignore facts that don't fit into your narrow mindset!

He doesn't support Israel for its own sake, he supports it because many Evangelicals believe that only when the Jews control all of their old land can Jesus come again (more or less). Everyone knows that.

Good luck trying to make Hagee an election issue. Hasn't worked so far, but it certainly won't stop WaPo from trying....

Pedophile Loyola said "Give me a child for the first seven years and his mind is mine for life." According to McCain's autobiography, "Faith of My Fathers," his earliest years were shaped by training in Roman Catholic schools. Furthermore, in his book he touts his "noble" ancestry's exploits as failed warriors on behalf of lost Roman Catholic causes...to which his admitted incompetence as an aviator on behalf of Vietnam's Roman Catholic false-elite slavemasters fighting the continuation of Jefferson's Whig revolution, in the person of Ho Chi Minh, must be added.

McCain served fascist plutocracy, not the American People and Constitution.

www.theamericanfundament.blogspot.com

People make the assumption that to be pro-Israel means to be pro-Jewish. Unfortunately this isn't the case. There are many who support Israel out of their own selfish needs. Many of these same people couldn't care less if tomorrow every jew on the face of the planet were to isappear.

Do you read your own Talmud Rabbi? It seems you pick and choose which isn't surprising since you come from the Reform Movement. I am sure you 'll say gays are ok and that the G-d loves them all. G-d couldn't sacrifice 11 million people because He couldn't do that! Soddom and Gammorha didn't occur. G-d doesn't do that! Admit it already. The Reform movement has watered down Judaism so much that most who follow the religion don't recognize you. You have music in the schul, you don't wear yarmulkes and you are so liberal that the followers of the Reform movement wouldn't be treated much differently by G-d as He would treat the gentiles. But you all keep fooling yourself that the Reform movement is justified.

McCain's personal belief system and philosophy seem very thin indeed. He claims passionate political and moral positions which appear to evaporate in the presence of expediency. It's difficult to judge another person, but it is impossible to assess John McCain as a believer in any theology, let alone religion. He views evangelical support as a necessary component to a political victory in November, but cares about neither who he enlists in his campaign entourage nor the flawed baggage they carry. McCain wants campaign check marks regardless of the quality. He will continue to make his Hagee mistake over and over, because he has no moral, theological or religious grounding to assist his judgments. In a season of weak candidates, John McCain is close to the weakest.

Scholars traditionally viewed Revelations as a text dealing with issues contemporary with 1st century christian struggles within the dangerous restraints of the Roman empire. Names and events were thickly veiled to provide plausible deniability.

This view is far less dangerous then the assertion that the events of Revelation are occurring now, during a time of nuclear weaponry, and other environmentally threatening technology. It's truly scary that extreme beliefs that welcome the advent of unthinkable destruction has permeated the levels of national leadership.

You seem to have missed Hagee's clear agenda. He wants to have Jews move to Israel to create more conflict in the Middle East so that it will speed up his fictional Armageddon and Second Coming. According to him, Jews will then either convert to Xianity or be killed by Hagee's god.

RELIGION SHOWS US ONCE AGAIN HOW IT POISONS EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING IT TOUCHES!!

It is just not the evangelicals in the US that are using god as a pasty, Islam that these hypocrites hate with a passion has the same ideology about god and what happens. Their version is will of god. The indoctrination is the creed of their fundamental belief that what ever happens it is god's will, which is nothing but a cop out for these malignant narcissists, chronic scape-goaters. The hierarchy of the church and whole families that are in the business of preaching and church are too used to their god providing for everything. The gullible and the misled by these self interest and self righteous are coned into paying for the lifestyle of these chronic grab baggers and the SOBs use their tax free status to hoard vast sums of money and get away with it. It is the worst business then what the mafia and the protection rackets use. In this case the SOBs use the excuse of saving souls.
The irony is every religious entity use the same appeasement. The hierarchy of religion use, abuse and exploit their flock with the same impunity that politicians use the in misappropriation of the taxpayers money. The common denominator is the hypocrisy and deceit all in the name of doing good.

What is new: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." History does make strange bedfellows. Prior to and during WWII, a small group of Zionists, notably members of the Stern Gang, made overtures to the Nazis. For several reasons, mostly to advance their cause, which was not at all popular among many Jews of the time, they saw a victory by Hitler as more beneficial to their cause then that of the allies. Their rationale bore some similarity to that of Hagee. There was even some talk of forming a Jewish unit to fight with the Nazis. Again, this wasn't something that had the support of the vast majority of Zionists.

I have waded through all these comments, viewing most with real alarm. I imagine Rabbi Saperstein felt the same way.

Some comments were informative. For example, the opinion that Hagge has been accepted heretofore because he is white and has access to sources of wealth, and that McCain might have rejected Hagge only now when he needs to get votes from center Republicans.

But, in general, I wonder how we can have a functioning and real democracy when there are so many nutsos who combine their religious views with politics and their power seems to be so great.

Great!

jews will support Obama, the guy who hates you the most.

JJ:

You just keep on proving my point about you, which is hilarious all by itself.

Your posts will be gone by sunrise, bye-bye.

Nazism isn't dead. It was merely a military catspaw for Rome, which has gone on to ride several different "horses" since, and is, for the time being ensconced in the White House, Congress and the Supreme Court.

"Palast"inians are allied with the same Maronite Roman Catholic Anti-Christ and would do better severing those ties and developing the Jews as friends rather than as enemies.

Paper beats rock. Whig beats Tory. Rome shall fall in a day.

www.theamericanfundament.blogspot.com

Zionism = Nazism = perception that you are better than some other weaker race "God's chosen people". Apartheid israel is portrayed in the "US free media" as the only democracy in the middle east, by a zionist propaganda machine that controls the media, therefore americans
have no idea about the ethnic cleansing commited against the palestinians for over 60 years.
History teaches us that racist ideologies die like Nazism.

To JJ:

You're like a little troll that lives under the bridge here at the WaPo blogs--a mentally retarded troll--a mentally retarded troll with Tourette's Syndrome. You lack the mental capacity to actually participate in discussions of the topic at hand, so you just randomly blurt out nonsense, hate-speech, and profanity.

In some ways you are amusing to watch, though, as you twist in the wind, desperately screaming for attention, and getting none.

Is there anyone more pathetic than you?

Moderator:

Please delete the demented post delivered by JJ aka J*zv*z.

God help us. J*zv*z found out how to use bold font.

If you think Rev. Hagee is a creep (and he is) why would you want him to continue to give money to Isreal?

The first concept for The Great Seal was Moses leading the Israelites through the Reed Sea. The American People will support righteousness once their eyes are opened to the Roman Anti-Christ, identified by Our Founder, Th. Jefferson, now in power subverting the Constitution.

It is what it is and Bush committed 9-11 with some lineal heir of the traitors who killed King and the Kennedys, and a Mossad component of false Jews.

America supports the State of Israel but just as we must extirpate Rome's Fifth Column traitors here - the same who financed Hitler and the Holocaust on behalf of Rome's caesaropapism and the Old Sectarian Order, they must restore righteousness to their government as well.

Annuit Coeptis: There is only One Creator.

Death for Treason

www.theamericanfundament.blogspot.com

To accept in your chicken farm a domesticated fox; is calling for trouble; sooner than later.
Evangelicals believe in dispensationalism. things that will happen before Jesus returns. this is o.k. many believe in this( including me).
But they believe they can force the timing of his return.
This is dangerous; since according to the bible; terrible things will happen before his return; that's why he'll return; to re-establish order.
This thinking is in line with the argument of hitler being the Lord's messenger and Ariel Sharon's Comma for returning a piece of the holy land to the palestinians.
dispensationalism in this context is like a horror movie; a sacrifice must be made for the gates to open; usually a virgin; but for them it's Israel.
They are not giving you any support; it's merely a loan; to be paid by converting or burning alive.

The poster at 10:09 a.m. says, (and I'M NOT JOKING!)

"AMERICA IS THE PROPHESIED NEW ISRAEL.!"

Better keep it to yourselves, a secret. Best not inform Americans.
Anti-semitism is growing quickly here. Read the inside of polls about hating the war in iraq and the Israeli screams for bombing Iran.

(Then ead this year's international BBC polls and others).

Americans do NOT in favor our support of Israel. And Bush is going. And Wall Street is increasingly detested. Stay tuned.

One thing is clear enough: the bible drives men mad.

D. SAPERSTEIN

You wrote, "I do not share Rev. Hagee’s belief that God controls every action here on Earth", I do not know anything about what Rev. Hagee's belief's are, but I would like to make a comment about what you say is one of his belief's.

God knows, but He does not "control every action here on Earth" because if He did, then we would be nothing but a bunch of puppets on a string whereas God gave us free will.

Predestination is true and the reason it is true is because God knows what we will do, not that He controls what we do. That is why God came up with a Plan to save ALL OF HUMANITY.

If predestination were true AND God "controls every action here on Earth" then that would be the most despicable being that could exist.

God is a Being of Love, Pure Love and God is a Trinity and it is God's Plan, not ours, and His Plan is for EVERYONE to be with Him in His Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth.

We have free will and we are responsible for what we do whether we admit it or not.

I find it very, very sad that some of the people that call themselves "christian" seem to settle for the "good enough news" which is really horrible news, as in "as long as I get to the good place", mighty "christian" of some of you.

God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof and it is important what you do and why you do it and what you know.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

The Six Million are dead. That they not have died in vain, and that justice be achieved for them, it is good that we can know with absolute moral certainty who killed them (Viz. Goldhagen, "A Moral Reckoning"), establishing the entity America's Founder identified as "Anti-Christ" (Viz. TJ to S. Kercheval, 19jan10) as "Amalek," that Whig analysis can be employed confirming Mr. Jefferson's role as Prophet foreseeing the task at hand for the righteous American People: extirpating the Roman Fifth Column which illegally controls BIG OIL with the Saudi corruption they served when Bush, Cheney and a criminal faction of false Jews from the State of Israel committed 9-11 (Viz. Emer. Prof. David Ray Griffin, PhD).

America is the prophesied New Israel: a haven for the remnant of the House of Israel. Read Isaiah. The State of Israel must also be righteous as our sister state.

The Roman Anti-Christ shall fall "in a day" when we realize it isn't just pedophilia, institutionalized homosexuality and the Holocaust on its hands. Rome is responsible for the Knight of Malta-led CIA's assassination of President Kennedy (under the on-site supervision of Nixon and GHW Bush) to send us to die in their slave plantation of Vietnam, IranContra to bolster their failing rule in Latin America, and the promotion of illegal immigration outlined in the "National Pastoral Plan for Hispanic Ministry" to take back the U.S. from the "Anglos" who stole it from Hispanic Roman Catholics, that they "construct the Kingdom of God," here. Get a copy on Amazon. Their tax-free treasonous stratagem is openly published.

Let's make lemonade from lemons. The Holocaust proves once and for all that Rome is the Anti-Christ America's Whig Founders knew it to be.

Let us return to our White, Black, and Jew Whig roots and have justice for the Six Million, our dead of Vietnam, 9-11, and Iraq: Death for treason. Bush, Cheney and their closest accomplices must be tried, convicted and hanged and their faction fully expropriated and banished.

Justice for the Six Million, now!

www.theamericanfundament.blogspot.com

sboyd18:

All of this media-fueled brouhaha over Hagee's statements tend to take what the man was saying out of context.

---------------

Oh, really? How convienient. Are you willing to say "All of this media-fueled brouhaha over" Wright's "statements tend to take what the man was saying out of context.

Hagee and Wright are two greedy peas-in-a-pod. They exploit Jesus' name for their false power and demagoguery. Sniveling apologists for either will not change what they said or what they apparently feel in their cold, hateful hearts.

I find that often people who claim to revere freedom and tolerance are usually the first to intolerantly impose censorship. It's not as if Hagee said that all Jews were inferior and should be killed. He didn't even say that it's alright to discriminate against Jews.

Equally troubling, the author seems to find that the extermination and deaths of 11 million people in Nazi death/concentration camps are more reprehensible than the 30 million-plus other deaths that occurred during WWII. I might add that almost half of these were probably innocent civilians.

I liken this latest Hagee dust-up to African Americans who use the "N" word when talking to each other but scream bloody murder when others do it. There is a bit of hypocrisy here. Jews are well known to discuss the things that Hagee has asserted. Asking if they are still the "chosen people," or if God has turned His back on them, and what have we done to deserve this.

Indeed, the entire sweep of the Old Testament involves the continual punishment of the nation of Israel (and individuals) by God for disobedience. It is clear this cycle has been and is being repeated over and over again. Moreover, Israel (especially) in light of the New Testament is a metaphor for ALL people.

We ask for God's help in times of trouble, but continually wander away when things are good. This wandering from God is also symbolic of the Hebrews time in the Sinai after their exodus from bondage in Egypt.

To call Hagee's views or "words" anti-Semitic is ridiculous. In fact, this whole episode shows that Jews are intolerant of Christianity unless its watered down. Indeed, missionary work and proselytizing are inhibited and illegal in Israel today.

Hagee could have mentioned the nation of Israel's repeated flirtation with the worship of baal (Jeremiah 2:8, 12:16) and the sun (Ezekiel 8:16). This has been validated by archeological finds. He could have mentioned the injustices, especially toward the poor, in the nation that prophets such as Ezekiel mentioned (Ezekiel 18:12, Amos 4:1). And he could have mentioned that baal is essentially a euphemism for the devil. But he didn't.

It's not all about Israel, but about all of creation. There is a God and their is a devil. Everyone in the world falls short and misses the mark (the definition of sin). We must worship God alone, and follow His laws.

Rabbi, I believe in and have faith in the omnipotent God. And I praise and worship him. I remember that it is He who will judge me (Psalm 50). I try never to forget that He will bless me for being obedient and punish me for turning my back on Him and not remembering His commandments. Mostly, I know that He loves me and will have mercy on me.

Perhaps you would rather forget or ignore the admonitions of Moses: Numbers chapter 26 and Deuteronomy chapters 4 and 6. Or the admonitions of others, for instance as in Ezekiel chapter 16. Or even Deuteronomy chapter 8. You would rather forget (and have all of us forget) that the blessings and curses were foretold in detail (not just in Jeremiah 16:16 as Hagee mentioned) in Deuteronomy chapters 28 and 29 et seq. This is just to name a few, leaving out all of the Minor Prophets.

Perhaps, it's the fact that you and rabbis like you do not believe in an active, Almighty God and that these words of God are forgotten that is the real problem not anti-Semitism.

Since no one else here gets it. I'll try to explain.

Point 1. If God, as the Torah and the Bible both clearly state is sovereign then but two things can happen in this world, those things God cause and those things God permits.

Point 2. Man has freewill. It operates in opposition to the will of God for the most part.

Point 3. Without the Holocaust there is no modern state of Israel. And please note it wasn't so much to compel the Jews as to bring the nabobs of Europe on board with the notion of the establishment of Israel as a nation state. Let's not forget antisemitism was rife in prewar Europe in places other than Nazi Germany most notably in France.

Point 4 the Bible and the Torah are rife with tales of God using men's evil doings to work some eventual good for believers in him.

Point 5. Even were 5 not true it is intrinsic to human nature to try to find some silver lining to even the most ghastly of clouds. To see evil in this is to engage in a rather grandiose paranoia.

Zealots generally have trouble with how things will play out before Jesus returns. There are all sorts of bad things prophecied throughout the Bible, and so people become confused by the difference between describing the future and orchestrating the future. The reunification of Israel into one country is believed to be an indicator that Jesus will return soon. So when someone asks about Hitler and the Holocaust, they mistakenly conclude God did it for some good reason.

In fact, there is no good reason for the Holocaust to have happened, no more so than plagues that killed people across Europe in the middle ages. (And of course Jews were blamed for that by those who were afflicted and terrorized by the diseases that killed them.) The 20th Century Holocaust has more in common with an old-fashioned pogram updated with the technology of the industrial revolution than it does with anything else.

Paqid Yirmeyahu,
U say:"I'm an Israeli Orthodox Jew!!!!!!"

There is such thing:israel and israeli are an ancient myths resurcted by zionists in a failed attempt to rally religious nuts in the west like Hagee and give jewish alien occupiers and ethnic cleanesers of Palestinians like u or or perhaps your father a fake legitimacy-and legitimacy U will never have because stealing other peoples' land and throwing them out is NOT legitimate.

Palestine is Palestine and will always be Palestine:It was a land with people when the jews stole it and those people are still there:five million Palestinians under military apartheid occupation for the past sixty years and six million in refugee camps only within one or two hour bus drive from their cities,towns and villages in Palestine-over 530 of which were razed to ground by jewish ethnic cleanesrs in 1947/8 to prevent them from returning to Palestine and sixty years later still waiting in refugee camps.

The Palestinians will return to their homeland Palestine-sooner rather than later-and jews can go back to where they come from-perhaps set up a jewish state in Germany in compensation for the holocaust which the Palestinians had nothing to do with it-while the Palestinians now endure their own jewish imposed holocaust of apartheid,collective puishment in a big concentration camp nazi style called Aushwitz #2=Gaza and the west bank including Jerusalem which was built by the Canannite Arabs five thousand years ago-long before the jews ever existed.

I'm an Israeli Orthodox Jew. Although Reform Jews dominate the almost completely assimilated American community, they neither follow, believe nor understand Torah and they do not speak for Israeli Torah Jews. I don't speak for them either, but, at least, I speak for some Israeli Orthodox Jews. While Mr. Hagee seems to have badly worded a Torah teaching, consider the widely-accepted Orthodox Artscroll Stone Edition Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) note to the cited verse (Jer. 16.16): "God will seek out the Jews wherever they may be"!!!

Enemies of Jews and Israel are laughing - many thanking Allah - at the coup they have pulled off. Just because the anti-Biblical Liberal Left -- which includes Reform Jews -- cannot wrap their minds around how God set up the laws of the universe doesn't make it "anti-Semitic." The seeming paradox between evil-incarnate and God's Will has perplexed even heavy-weight theologians.

See my complete article at:
http://www.netzarim.co.il/ConvCtr/ConvCtr.htm#YBD200805231500

Paqid Yirmeyahu
Paqid 16, The Netzarim
Israeli Orthodox Jew
Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority
Welcoming Jews & non-Jews
www.netzarim.co.il

Wasn't Saperstein in that movie - "Rosemary's Baby"

God may not control all things on earth but I believe He does allow things to happen for His will to be accomplished.

Hagee's comments on Israel echoes comments I used to hear (more frequently) about Blacks. You remember, send 'em all back to Africa. In Hagee's case, it sounds a lot like send all the Jews back to Israel.

God has left the building.

meacham and quinn are like drug dealers providing this god spot. lots of good it does to talk about god, write about god, think about god. the two of you are intellectual pretenders. what a waste

Jews don't need friends like Hagee, nor should we ever defend John McCain's complete lack of judgment as he panders to the extreme right wing. It saddens me to think that there are any Jews thinking of supporting McCain--McCain's Jewish supporters seem to me to be a bunch of smug self-serving schnooks with nary a brain to share among themselves.

Rabbi, you are not up to speed on the issue. Their is at least one Chasidic scholar who has taken the position that Adolph Hitler was an angel sent by God to punish the Jews for abandoning the Torah.

Reverend Hagee's comments were not outside the boundaries of contemporary Jewish theology. There is no reason to repudiate him, even if you find his view extreme.

I sincerely hope that Rabbi Saperstein is engaging in strategic credulity, and not expressing what he truly thinks, when he writes: "I hope that Rev. Hagee continues his support for Israel, which I assume he gives for its own sake." It is repugnant for Israel or Israelis to even consider taking money from such a man - especially if it is on the false assumption that he does so "for its own sake."

Any scholar of Hagee's variety of Christianity is well versed with Christian Zionist "love" of Israel. It is - tragically - akin to a glutton's love for his lunch. Hagee wants a bellicose Israeli foreign policy so the End of Days and the Second Coming can be ushered. He has no love of the Jews, a people he has warned will go to Hell like all other sinners for not recognizing Jesus as the Lord.

Hagee claims his warning of fellow Christians against proselytizing of Jews is proof that he has no alterior motive, that he loves Jews for themselves. Also false. He lavishes his love (ie., enormous fiscal contributions) to Israeli institutions in the dispensationalist belief that it will awake Jews to the goodness (and superiority) of Christianity, and that they will convert of their _own_ volition.

What better gauge of sincerity then a conversion taken of one's own will, without spiritual lobbying? Hagee is canny enough to know that Jewish conversion to Christianity has historically been a matter of duress or even threat ("by the sword"). Let's not forget that before Jesus can return, Jews must "spontaneously" recognize him as Messiah. The promise of dispensationalism is, in Hagee's view, denied with anything less than a completely voluntaristic conversion by Jews.

At the end of the day, Hagee views Jews as he views Catholics, gays, abortionists and others as sinners. And like a great many Christians, he "loves" the sinner, hates the sin. And if the sinner does not repent? Maybe G-d will find another way to punish his "wayward" people.

Hagee is a self-serving shill and racketeer. Zionists find him a convenient tool. The cycle of manipulation goes on and on and on . . . at America's expense.

If they stopped being led by Roman Catholic Maronites trying to finish the papacy's work begun with Hitler and the Holocaust, and picked some name other than that assigned by caesar to residents of a Roman Palast's jurisdiction - palastinian/palatine - they might actually consider empathetically the lot of the Jews, and that the Roman Empire/Church, who've tried for thousands of years to exterminate the Jews, isn't the "be all and end all" of human existence. Jefferson and America's Whig Founders knew better and identified Rome as the Anti-Christ. Why should any be led by such evil?

Well, this is the problem when one believes in an Almighty, an unseen hand, a G*d. Where does G*d's powers begin and end? It all in the eyes and interpretation of the believers.

So there is no contradiction in Hagee's argument about G*d causing the Holocaust, not the Zionist theologians' argument, or the anti-Zionist theologians' argument - because once you believe in G*d, you can ascribe G*d any or no powers. Religion is simply organized mystical belief - not science.

One thing is clear, belief in G*d is fueling the Jewish settler movement that is ethnically cleansing the Palestinians from their land.

I'm looking forward to seeing this nutbar's comments on an endless loop on Fox News. Not. Not a big deal, but in his desperation to court the right-wing religious lunatic fringe, McCain should have waited and vetted this guy. I still like McCain, although I won't vote for him, but he was a lot more likeable when he was rejecting these crazies, Bush's stupid tex cuts and the Club of Greed. Unfortunately he has to pander, as do the other candidates.

Anonymous:
All this God talk is really getting old. God is an imaginary being, created by the minds of people in their own image. I've never experienced any evidence in my nearly 60 years that such a super-natural being exists or *any* super-natural entities, for that matter. It's especially disturbing when people use the notion of a God for immoral, self-serving purposes -- to kill, steal from, abuse or control other people.

----well anonymous, what was your excuse?

cause there aint no way you got to be a 60 year old without "sc&@#$ing over" other people for some personal gain. Simply human nature.

So, if God aint your thing, why are you posting on this board? ...all the people I've ever met that didn't believe in God, seemed to be awfully mad at Him.

What's up?

perhaps there are many things that should give one pause before they follow-the-leader....

quote the author:

Fundamentalist religious leaders who believe not only that God controls everything that happens but that they are able to see God’s explicit plans within the context of their own political and cultural views should raise alarm bells for those who would ally with them

Perhaps one should be doubly careful of following anyone without a clue.

"...Hitler and the Holocaust were part of God’s plan to force the Jewish people back to Israel." Am I reading this correctly? Hitler was just exercising God's plan? Pardon me, but does this mean that my grandfather who fought Hitler as a Yugoslav partisan thereby resisted God's will?

Despite the fact that Hagee is an anti-Catholic and anti-gay bigot, we supported him because he raised money for us and spoke in favor of our cause. Yeah, that's religious conviction for you, that's quite a "dilemma".

All this God talk is really getting old. God is an imaginary being, created by the minds of people in their own image. I've never experienced any evidence in my nearly 60 years that such a super-natural being exists or *any* super-natural entities, for that matter. It's especially disturbing when people use the notion of a God for immoral, self-serving purposes -- to kill, steal from, abuse or control other people.

More troubling than Hagee's witterings about the Holocaust being God's plan, and his "convert or be damned" scenarios for Jews, is his implicit advocacy of the ethnic-cleansing of the Holy Land of all semites who are not Jewish semites.

One wonders what is really in the minds of Israeli political and civic leaders, supposedly working towards a two-state solution to the conflict in the Holy Land, when they attend rallies organized by this dispicable anti-semitic, anti-catholic bigot?

Hagee like the rest of his fellow "Christian Zionists" is a nut job trying to speed up actions leading to Armageddon. What he does not explain is, what the heck is gonna happen to Jews who don't convert after the 'Second Coming'?

Come on Johnnie, enlighten us, the excitement is killing me, not.

I don't agree with Hagee's view on Hitler, but it wasn't an anti-semitic statement. God did use Nebuchadnezzar to humble a defiant Israel, at the cost of many lives. This isn't my view, its straight from the Old Testament. This isn't to say that he did use Hitler in a similar fashion, but it would be consistent with how he used other nations.

Don't take this to mean God hates the Jews. Lets just say that being the chosen people has a very high price.

The State of Israel is not the prophesied New Israel. Read Isaiah to know the stipulations and qualifications...unless you reject Prophecy...thinking America's Whig Founders not quite as bright as...you.

Thomas Jefferson accepted prophecy. His words made him America's Founder and events which followed prove him a Prophet as well.

Rome committed the Holocaust after Hitler's rise to power was enabled by the RC Council at Fulda, and financed by Rome's American Fifth Column led by Vatican correspondent banker Rockefeller's lieutenant Prescott Bush...a member of the Vatican-running Knights of Malta...whose CIA oversaw Operation Ratlines and later, under the command of Prescott Bush-protege Nixon and George H.W. Bush, assassinated John Kennedy six weeks after his NSAM263 ordered our military withdrawal from Roman Catholic Vietnam.

Read Daniel Jonah Goldhagen's "A Moral Reckoning": proof, undeniable, that the Roman Catholic Church and two popes are morally, legally, and ethically culpable of the Holocaust.

Annuit Coeptis...there is only One Creator. Read the Hebrew Prophets and Thomas Jefferson: there is only One G-d.

America is the New Israel, founded by Whigs... Black, White, and Jew.

Bush, a homosexual draft-dodger, unconstitutionally appointed POTUS by only the Roman Catholics' votes on the Supreme Court, and his Roman Anti-Christ Fifth Column faction, committed 9-11 just as his father killed President Kennedy, his grandfather financed Hitler and the Holocaust, and their Vatican-banker, Fed-creating Rockefeller overlords have debased our unconstitutional currency and are now, with Roman Catholic BIG OIL, stealing all our money at the gas pump.

Jefferson called them "the real Anti-Christ." Their treason, pedophilia and institutionalized homosexuality serves Rome's Black Aristocracy, the descendants of caesar and pope living in the same castles on the same hills in Europe for two and three thousand years, with the help of false and weak would-be Americans yet unwilling to free themselves from Babylon - to join the New Secular Order as sovereign individuals: true Americans.

McCain is a tool of Rome. His autobiography brags of his family's service to Roman monarch and pontiff over the centuries, while America was founded by those who fought against king and pope.

Obama/Webb is just the start to restore the Republic. Bush and Cheney must hang for their treason and their accomplices and Fifth Column must be expropriated and extirpated.

A war is raging whether one sleeps or fights. Recognizing the problem is 90% of the solution.

Rome committed the Holocaust...is Amalek and Anti-Christ. There is only One G-d and Jefferson is America's One Prophet in Novus Ordo Seclorem. All else is faction and treason.

Obama/Webb '08

Death for Treason
Annuit Coeptis

www.theamericanfundament.blogspot.com

I'm tired of the focus and attention being given to Israel.

It galls me that any of this Zionist evangelical claptrap is new to America, ie a big news story, because these fundamentalists are the people who put Bush into office the second time while rational people failed to go vote. THEY PUT US IN IRAQ via Bush.

And, you've been warned by Jimmy Carter that certain right wing fundamentalists are polluting Christian standards with their fringe interpretation of the bible, but noooooo, James Earl Carter is not John Wayne enough for you to buy his word.

Well there you go folks, you and the kids spend more time out four-wheelin' instead of reading to find out who runs your gov and you deserve what you get; huge debt for your kids to pay off and a world that hates us for having the conscience of a Hagee.

America, you ARE stupid.

To Mr. It's The Money Stupid:

I don't do this often but I will say that you have a problem and it is prejudice. As for James (Why have the Jews been kicked out of every country they've lived in?) Bigots like you, mainly. Thanks for asking.

So Hagee's words are anti-Semetic but the man is not? How do you parse that? Words have consequences and Hagee uttered these horrible words---he spoke his true feelings. I think his beliefs describe the true man. And why does McCain get a pass on this? Obama has been heavily criticized because his FORMER pastor uttered inflamitory words---but Obama never embraced Wright over his words and in fact has denounced his FORMER pastor. McCain had numerous opportunities to do so in relation to Hagee, but only now has done so and you see fit to pat him on the back for this. And oh, by the way, he finally has renounced Rod Parsely's endorsement despite his rantings. Certainly a double standard on your part.

If one is willing to do just a little homework, it does not take long to realize that John Hagee is a man of questionable judgment and character. I do not say this as someone who is hostile toward religion or religious leaders. I have found many religious leaders in my life to be inspiring and wise. But, for goodness sake, just take a quick look at Hagee's books; their color, images, and language reveal in an instant a troubled, unbalanced, and even childish mindset.

Mr. Hagee (and other pastors of his ilk) demonstrates lack of restraint and self-awareness at every turn. His words are typically used to ridicule and tear down others (Catholics, women, non-believers). When he affirms something (aggressive American foreign policy, the State of Israel) his affirmation is grounded in fear and highly questionable tenets regarding the end times. And as folks are now coming to see, his support for Israel is not based on a mature appreciation for Jews or Judaism, but a peculiar reading on how Israel allegedly fits into the apocalypse.

To assert with utter confidence that Iran MUST be attacked, that the United States MUST achieve military victory in Iraq, that Israel MUST eliminate its enemies by any means necessary- all this based on a personal reading of Scripture is disturbing. Individuals with such a mindset should not be sought out for endorsements. Their words and deeds poison public discourse and inject irrational fears into the political process. (Again, simply glance at Hagee's books in a bookstore and you'll wonder what McCain was ever thinking)

May calmer and cooler heads prevail in this country.

Just give the fanatics a yamaka, say, "Congratulations, you're a Jew", send them off to an isolated island, tell them the Island's Israel, and let them conduct a high mass on themselves so Jesus can come back ;).

Then moderate Jews, Christians, Muslims, and agnostics can go about their merry lives without having to worry so much about Armageddon.

Hagee represents a deep evangelical strain by which every earthly act 1s foreshadowed by the Bible. After Hagee endorsed McCain and his anti-Catholic remarks were publicized, a decent man like Mike Huckabee said he wished Hagee had endorsed him. The evangelicals just bought the entire fairy tale. Mencken saw it at the Scopes trial,and ambitious old men in their last time around for the presidency of a perishing republic are only too willing to connive (as in looking the other way) at the pastor's delusions.

If McCain chooses Huckabee as a running mate would we have to hear this kind of talk all Autumn and for the next for years? Forbid it, almighty God. I know not what course the others may take but as for me, I'm moving to France.

Hagee and Parsley are false prophets and if their god sent Hitler to murder six million jews then such god is either false or the scrpitures from which the two rogues above are reading is corrup and false too.

If the same two false prophets and their false god believe that jews should go to Arab Palestine-as the Crusaders did in 12th-13th century AD and were ultimately evicted)conquer it and ethnically cleanse 80% of of the Palestinians and impose a military occupation on the rest for sixty years-and set up an apartheid state (See Jimmy Carter book)on top of and at the expense of Palestinians,then that is a cruel and false god;no true god would allow such atrocity and treachery.

It follows therefore that Hagee's false god also believes in destroying the nation of Palestine as some sort of punishment and replace them with another punished people.

Is Hagee's god is in the business of punishment full time?? Who is going to do the saving??

So Hagee and Parsley's false god is consistent in his cruelty and treachery:punish the jews by slaughtering six million of them and punish the Palestinians by sending another "HUNTER," this time the jews to evict and occupy the Palestinians and their homeland.

Absolute Madness.

We should stop talking about the myth of the "land of israel" because its name is Palestine with over eleven million people called PALESTINIANS-who lived in that land since their Arab Canninite ancestors setlled it five thousand years ago-:over six million refugees and over five million still clinging to their homeland in occupied Palestine.

Thou not our topic it's worth reminding all concerened that there is no peace process,and there will never be a a two state solution:isreal occupied 78% of historic Palestine in 1947/8 and the balnce of 22% in 1967;since 1967 israel devoured over sixty percent of the 22% (Jerusalem,West Bank and Gaza)which means a would be PAlestinian state is to be built on less than 10% of their original historic Palestine of mutilated land dotted with cancerous settlemnets and military roads and with no resourcses.

So where will a Palestinian state be built:no where and the so called peace process is the greatest deception of the 20th/21st century.

One solution:one secular democratic state for all Arabs (Muslims and Christians) and Jews who live in Palestine at or before WW1-such a state will be multi-cultural and multi-religious as is the USA.

In the mean time Hagee and his twin,Parsley- can wait for all the jews to come to Palestine where most of them will be slain in Armagedon while the small balance will be converted to his brand of Xtinaity!!!

See WWW.PLANDS.ORG

Kids, kids, can't we all just get along?

The only reason he was overlooked is because he is white. It is as simple as that. If you are a white preacher you can say anything and no one says anything or even points it out, it is just a shrug of the shoulders and a mutter about a 'fire and brimestone' sermon.
But one old angry black preacher has changed the way the media looks at preachers because if not all handled the same way, they would catch h*ll.

Jews, it seems, like Hagee's cash. That's about it, they probably see him as a fool, and a fool and his money are soon parted. Hagee's imbecilic beliefs don't make anything bad happen, it's just the ugly exterior on a bank full of money.

Think of it: Hagee's minions are constantly prodded to spend for Israel, be it donation or tourism, they breed like rabbits, and they even VOTE in US ELECTIONS FOR ISRAEL before they worry about New Orleans or Appalachia or the inner cities. They are lockstep reliable cash cows. What's not to like?

I wrote down a great quote of Shimon Peres one day, he said, "Peace is like love, for it to work you have to close your eyes a little bit." I think Jews relationship with Hagee is like love, they close their eyes, and take the dough.

WHAT GOES AROUND, COMES AROUND.

HA, HA,

Reading over other people's comments, I thought that perhaps quoting Hagee's statement may be revelatory to those people who somehow have the mis-perception that he didn't say that Hitler was doing God's will has a "hunter."

SO, in the words of James "Some of my friends are Jews" Hagee...

"Again he said unto me “Prophesy unto these bones, and say unto them, ‘O you dry bones, hear the word of the LORD!”, and he spoke to them and they stood and they became an exceeding great army - meaning they physically came to life. Now how is God going to bring them back to the land? The answer is fishers and hunters. The answer is given in Jeremiah 16, verse 15 and following. God says in Jeremiah 16 - “Behold I will bring them the Jewish people again unto their land that I gave unto their fathers” - that would be Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - “Behold I will send for many fishers and after will I send for many hunters. And they the hunters shall hunt them” - that will be the Jews - “from every mountain and from every hill and from out of the holes of the rocks.” If that doesn't describe what Hitler did in the Holocaust... you can't see that. So think about this - I will send fishers and I will send hunters. A fisher is someone who entices you with a bait. How many of you know who Theodore Hertzel was? How many of you don't have a clue who he was? WOO... Sweet God! Theodore Hertzel is the father of Zionism. He was a Jew that at the turn of the 19th century said - “this land is our land, God wants us to live there”. So he went to the Jews of Europe and said, “I want you to come and join me in the land of Israel”. So few went, Hertzel went into depression. Those who came founded Israel; those who did not went through the hell of the Holocaust. Then god sent a hunter. A hunter is someone who comes with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. And the Bible says - Jeremiah righty? - “they shall hunt them from every mountain and from every hill and out of the holes of the rocks”, meaning: there's no place to hide. And that will be offensive to some people. Well, dear heart, be offended: I didn't write it. Jeremiah wrote it. It was the truth and it is the truth. How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said, “my top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come BACK to the land of Israel”. Today Israel is back in the land and they are at Ezekiel 37 and 8. They are physically alive but they're not spiritually alive. Now how is God going to cause the Jewish people to come SPIRITUALLY alive and say, “the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, He is God”?"

God wants the Jews back in Israel and he sent a fisher (Hertzel) and a hunter (Hitler) to get them back where God wants them. It's not anti-Semitic, right? Hitler was just doing God's dirty work, it wasn't his fault that they once again rejected God's plan (plan A being Jesus) and didn't return to Israel when Hertzel asked them to. Naughty Jews, always not listening to God after he did them the favor of making them the chosen people. Sheesh!

Why anyone believes any of this absurd BS is beyond me... you certainly can't argue with a book that was written a couple THOUSAND years ago! Right? I mean, its really old, so it must be literally true! Right?

Jesus, spare me from your followers!

Remember when Rodney King asked, "can't we all get along?"

Remember when Martin Luther King, Jr. said, "I have a dream?"

Remember why you have come to earth? To love, serve, and remember.

Hate speech leads to violence; and violence to war; then war ends in death

Why did McCain wait till Hagee said something offensive to Jews to renounce him? His comments offensive to Catholics prompted no response.

So after John McCain rejects the endorsemnt of Hagee can we expect Fox News to have the Headline, "John McCain turns his back on God"?

That would be fair and balanced by their definition wouldn't it?

This is why McCain dominates in Foreign policy...am I right people?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/02/18/MN32194.DTL

ron :
the reverend hagee is not an anti semite.the media need to leave this great man alone.
-

Excuse me if I have mistaken this man's teaching.

Understand that in conducting public campaigns and offering his endorsement to a presidential candidate, he invites media scrutiny.

If we misunderstand his views, that media scrutiny offers him (and you, his supporters), a public forum to educate us. What does Hagee preach about the fate of the Jews once greater Israel is achieved and the Messiah returns?

Thank you.

It galls me that any of this Zionist evangelical claptrap is new to America, ie a big news story, because these fundamentalists are the people who put Bush into office the second time while rational people failed to go vote. THEY PUT US IN IRAQ via Bush.

And, you've been warned by Jimmy Carter that certain right wing fundamentalists are polluting Christian standards with their fringe interpretation of the bible, but noooooo, James Earl Carter is not John Wayne enough for you to buy his word.

Well there you go folks, you and the kids spend more time out four-wheelin' instead of reading to find out who runs your gov and you deserve what you get; huge debt for your kids to pay off and a world that hates us for having the conscience of a Hagee.

America, you ARE stupid.

Thank you, Rabbi, for your comments. I live in the same city as Pastor Hagee, and find his annual displays of Israel-Love to be nauseating. I have no doubt -- none at all -- that he does not care about me as a person, only that I am one of millions of Jews whom he hopes to manipulate (and hopefully convert) so as to hasten the so-called "second coming" of his savior. That Senator McCain has seen the light is quite gratifying.

I'd say having John McCain reject this guy is a good start, but the repudiation won't be complete until his actual followers reject him too. The media should not let up on the John Hagee's of the religious right until the full depths of their hatred for everyone that doesn't share their group-think is fully exposed. He's the poster child for the Religious Right being neither right nor religious.

You don't have to agree with what this guy says, but you should at least state more clearly that his statement was not intended to be anti-Semitic.

The main reason McCain repudiated him is that he thought many people would think he was supporting Hitler, and certainly he was not.

As to whether God is responsible for everything that happens, he surely is. In the example of the holocaust, it would be nonsensical to think that an omnipotent being would be powerless to stop the actions of one man.

God's relationship with the Jews is by Covenant, not by command. Although His power is endless, nevertheless He chooses to end it at the limits of our free will. It is not that He is powerless to protect the Jews, but that His covenant will not allow Him to force His protection on them.

The Jews are the priests of the earth. They are God's chosen people, and as such will forever be a favorite target of man's darker nature.

Their safety will only and always be at the side of the Lord. But when they freely choose to eschew His guidance and stray from the path of righteousness, they will become a feast for evil.

Do you even read the Bible? The Old Testament? Maybe Rev. Hagee isn't completely right, but if you think God hasn't punished Israel for their sins you are VERY mistaken. Read any version of the Bible you like. You will find the real truth.

---While I hope that Rev. Hagee continues his support for Israel, which I assume he gives for its own sake, we should refrain from allying with him in any manner that gives our stamp of approval to him generally or to the deeply troubling views he has expressed.---

I find this troubling. First, its a bad assumption that he supports Israel for Israel's sake. He sees Israel's existance as needed for Armageddon to occur and fulfill the prophesy of Christ's return. In other words, his support of Israel's existance is to fulfill a prophesy that will lead to the end of the world. Now you might understand why he does not want to see peace break out in the region between Israel and the Palistinians.

If I were Israel I would send any money back from Hagee, just as McCain will likely send any money back from this man who not only thinks the millions killed in the holocaust was God's good work, but that the end of the world is coming and something to look forward to, and worse, encourage.

Hagee is not anti-semitic.. or at least you can't say he is just becuase he says God may have let what happened under Hitler happen to get the Jews back to Him. This is not unliked what is documented all throughout the Old Testament: that the Jews stopped following God's commandments and turned their back on Him and as a result they are conquered, turned into slaves etc. until they turn back to God.

I do agree though that Hagee's comments are insensitive and shouldn't have been said. It's not for us to pass judgement here or to say we know definitely why something happened.

And I do agree and would think Hagee does also that not everything is being controlled by God and that everything that happens is God's will.

just who the hell is hagee??
isn't he encouraging hate when he speaks?, isn't that against the law? shouldn't he be jailed for that or is it ok because GOD called him up and told him what to say? I've been calling GOD and emailing him for a long time now, he never responds to me, I wonder why not.

The mixture of religion and politics is flammable.

Those who support Israel in hopes it will bring about the Second Coming of Jesus N. and the conversion or annihilation of the Jews are self serving.

Those who mouth words that appear anti Semitic are more than likely anti Semitic.

It is the Republicans who mixed religion with politics, when they mobilized fundamentalist Christians to go out and get the vote for them.

The Republicans who mixed the flammable mixture of religion and politics, and are likely to get burned for it.

If the Democrats are smart they will read the FLAMMABLE sign on the mixture and stay away from it.

the reverend hagee is not an anti semite.the media need to leave this great man alone.

james :
Why have Jews been kicked out of every country that the have lived in ?

Is it possible that your anti-Semitism blinds you to inconvenient history?

When were Jews kicked out of France, England, Italy, Switzerland, or any country in the Americas?

Perhaps you know that Muslims accepted Jews and fellow 'peoples of the book', charging them an extra tax but exempting them from military service? That there are Jewish communities throughout the Middle East, including Iran?

And we've learned of African-Jewish ethnic groups in Ethiopia and even South Africa, living alongside other Africans for centuries?

Where Jews were persecuted or kicked out, might it say little about the Jews and more about those who persecuted them? Look into your mirror - or as Jesus said 'look first for the beam in your own eye before you look for the mote in another's'.

He does not support Israel. He thinks if Israel becomes the greater Israel then Christ will return because it will bring about the end of the world. His support is self serving. He is also crazy.

"I don’t believe that Rev. Hagee is anti-Semitic but the words he used are."

Sorry David Saperstein, but this statement is justy a little too weasely for me.

It wasn't me, it was the words that did it!!
Darn those pesky words, where do they come from anyway?

America, Europe and the World are watching how the media handles Republican McCain's racist pastor. Fair is fair, so the media should start running Racist Hagee's hate message 24 - 7 for over a month just like they did the other guy, or expect major problems and protests.

The innacurate depiction of Hagee's views, peculiar though those views may be, lends little credibility to Saperstein's repudiation of Hagee. Saperstein has bowdlerized his views.

The main reason Hagee wants the Jews to return to Isreal is to advance the Second Coming of Christ. When Jesus arrives, the Rapture follows and all believers in Jesus will be swept up into heaven. Why some Jews aren't concerned about their being "Left Behind" in this scenario, but ardently support Hagee's convictions, is baffling to me.

It says a lot about McCain's judgement that he sought this fool out, and took three months to repudiate his hatefull and ignorant statements.

It says a lot about some Jews that they would support a Hitler-loving nutcase just because he supports Israel. If you love Israel so much, move there - but oh, that's right, the people that want to live there are the Palestinians. It's disgusting.

It's amazing the strange bedfellows syndrome the world is now encompassed in. Especially Israel. George Bush is led around Israel as some kind of messiah. Israel is quite pathetic. How many Jews are aware of this evil little man's grandpappy's source of wealth? The gold that bought his daddy's power came right out of your ancestor's mouths. Strange bedfellows indeed.

It's amazing the strange bedfellows syndrome the world is now encompassed in. Especially Israel. George Bush is led around Israel as some kind of messiah. Israel is quite pathetic. How many Jews are aware of this evil little man's grandpappy's source of wealth? The gold that bought his daddy's power came right out of your ancestor's mouths. Strange bedfellows indeed.

It is good we listen carefully to those few God communicates with. I am envious that God has selected some but not me to reveal His plans or explain His reasons. Unless I listen to these Holy ones I have no idea what is going on in God's mind.

Well, the good Reverend's comments would certainly explain why Grandpa Prescott Bush was working for the Nazis, he was doing God's work.
Like someone else has posted, John McLame usedflip-flopped on Falwell Hagee and Parsley to get the support of the talibaptists in the Primaries. It's sad to see a one-time popluar hero reduced to such desperate pandering, but at 72, what else has he, or the GOP for that matter, got left?

It seems sad that we can not accept the fact that Science and Religion does not have the answer as to a god. And it should not matter. The wonderful fact is that man has been given a Garden of Eden, the earth. Science has advanced further in answering the question of "how it all began". Religion is living in the past with three Gods, Jewish, Christian and Muslim. All are based on the idea that God has talked to three prophets some 4000-2000 years ago. If religious folks want to believe in prophets talking to God...it seems to me that a reasonable person should accept the Mormon religion since history and time, 1800's, is in on their side.

Thank heaven, or "pitchforks and pointed ears," as the case may be, that FINALLY there is a Republican candidate and hopefully some more people of faith, willing to reject more of the kooky christians statements infesting the beliefs of people of influence.

It's a healthy sign and I await more of them to come.

So our political process in the US is now driven by religious ideologies and the interests of a foreign power! What next? Will our political process be driven by communism and the interests of China or North Korea? (Wait, wait...it already is!) I fully expected that the US will soon be governed by people in Beijing. But it sounds like I could be rong. Sounds like they will be in jerusalem, and only the repubs will survive and be taken straight up to heaven, while the bad dems will all go to hell with their muslim buddies. Bah...Hagee and his ilk are all a fraud.

"While I hope that Rev. Hagee continues his support for Israel, which I assume he gives for its own sake, "

It does you credit to assume so. Is it a reliable assumption? Or is Hagee's support a product of a belief that support of Israel is merely a means to an end, to speed the arrival of the end times?

And since he believes that only his particular brand of Christians will be saved, is his lack of interest in conversion a sign of tolerance, or utter, un-Christian, indifference?

Is it reasonable to conclude that Hagee's regards Jews as tools to be polished while their performance is useful and discarded afterwards? That he is false and dissembling, that he perhaps the most anti-Semitic of Christians, and that Jewish leaders who cooperate with him need to have their heads examined?

Hagee's endoresement was good enough for McCain when we was trying to court right-wing evangelicals in the primary against Huckabee and Romney... but now, Hagee's endorsement is no good when he's running in the general election? How convenient!

HAGGEE IS INSANE! AND THATS ALL THERE IS TO IT! AND I WOULD NEVER EVER FEEL OR BELIEVE THAT HIS DOCTRINE AND ZEALOT IS SOMETHING THAT MCCAIN WOULD SUPPORT! AND WE DIDNT HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THIS AS YOU ALL DID TO BROTHER OBAMA@

Israel was supposed to be delivered by the Messiah instead it was delivered by U.S. and British decision. Russia also supported the creation of Israel. The Orthodox Jews were against the state of Israel because it was not delivered by the Messiah. We do not know where the Messiah would have brought the Jews. The Jews never have accepted Jesus as their Messiah.They fully participated his Crucifixion.The Jews were the first terrorists because they bombed the King David hotel out of protest. They had an underground network that fought against the creation of Israel.I am a Jew that became a born again Christian. I am merely following the teachings of Jesus he never told Jews to stop being Jews he merely wanted Jews to follow his teachings as the next step as the word from God. I don't think that the envangelicals like Hagee really care about the Jewish people they only care about the land and that it will be the kingdom of Jesus here on Earth upon his return. Has Hagee ever told the Jews to repent and accept Jesus as their Messiah. No he has not. Jesus is the Son Of God. The Jews need to bow down before God ask for his forgive and be Baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.Then and only then will there be peace in Israel , the same also applies to the Muslims.
Shalom and Salaam. Peace be unto you in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

an earlier evangelical Christian writes that Hagee believes:

God Has a beautiful future in store for Israel and the Jewish people.

And what pray tell might that beautiful future be? Could it be a bloody war, the return of Jesus to earth, and the conversion of all Jews to Christianity (acceptance of Jesus as the messiah?)

I agree with other posters. Respectfully, mr saperstein, Jews need to completely distance from Mr. Hagee... and that includes turning away from his tainted money.

Have any of you actually listened to what Hagee said?

He was speaking about something that God apparently said in the Bible about what would happen to the Jews. He did not say that he believed Hitler was justified or did the right thing.

He was speaking in terms of God's plans to get the Jews back to Israel and what God had planned to make that happen.

Try to look at this in the same context as so many urged others to do with the Rev. Wright.

Both have their own visions of what God plans and they are entitled to their positions.

Does that mean Obama believes what Wright believes? I am no Obama fan, but even I know that's not the case. For many it reflects more on an important trait Obama is running on: His judgment.

Does that mean McCain believes what Hagee believes? I am no McCain fan, but even I know that is not the case.

Will that stop the guilt by association for either? Probably and unjustifiably, no.

Why have Jews been kicked out of every country that the have lived in ?

Rev. Hagee should get the same treatment just like Rev. Wright, fair is fair. This is what we call enemy within, Hagee raised money for Jews and so he is allow to talk like and have views like the Iran president while we are critisizing Obama for just trying to talk to this Iran president to have him refrain from his anti-Jews views and ideas? Don't tell me Jews could be bought with money. "You cannot buy my love Mr. Hagee". This is real mositiquito in action it blows kisses on the spot and makes you feel cool and good before it bites you. Woo them with money then strike them?

When one sought or seek something he/she take responsibity of it. McCain knew all about these but he thought he, McCain can get away with it. McCaim saw some Jews protesting Rev. Wright association with Obama in Florida that is why he, McCain has quickly denounce Hagee. Too much association of radical pastors with McCain campaign.

Ironically there are some anti-Zionist theological extremists in our community who argued exactly the opposite: that the Holocaust was God’s punishment for the Zionist movement. Both views are equally repugnant theologically, morally and politically.

What's ironic for me is that you can say this, after saying this:

contradictions of participating in such events with someone who held views that were anathema to our commitment to tolerance, pluralism and intergroup respect.


And then not see how the belief that people need to have a piece of real estate with a particular religious/racial identity itself is anathema to tolerance, pluralism, and intergroup respect.

Has Joe Lieberman weighed in on this? Not only has he been joined at the hip with McCain on the Hagee issue so far, he was the keynote speaker at Hagee's Christians United for Israel event in D.C. last year.

There are many fundalmentalists in America which my brother-in-law is one, who believes that America being the Godly country that must protect Israel's claim to land over the Arab's because Israel's land will be made ready for Jeseus to come down from heaven and set up his kingdom there. This is not my belief, yet it is the belief of millions of American fundamentalists like those in 700 club and many preachers and lawyers who are the product of Regent University,and members of other fundamentalist churches who preach this.

Stupidity leads religious fervor. What else is new?

Pastor Hagee's statements about the putative role of the Nazis in history highlight the difficulties religious believers of various traditions create for themselves when they affirm accounts of divine sovereignty which imply that God finally determines every event that occurs in the world. If you're not prepared to acknowledge that much that happens is contrary to God's intentions, then not only the Holocaust but also the devastation wrought by Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the Chilean generals--all the tyrants of history--and disasters from the Lisbon earthquake to Katrina and beyond are all ultimately attributable to God. And, in this case, either these horrific events are really, contrary to all appearances, intrinsically or (as one might deduce from Pastor Hagee's words) instrumentally good, or else talk about God as good and loving loses all plausibility. Theologies of absolute divine sovereignty imply the truth of what Pastor Hagee said, whether or not they explicitly treat Hitler as God's agent. The best response to troubling words like his is not just to note the dreadfulness of talking about the Holocaust in particular as somehow part of God's purposes for the world, but also to affirm the reality of the created world's freedom and integrity and to let go of the potentially comforting but finally disturbing assumption that everything that happens in the world happens in accordance with God's will.

And don't forget to vote for the only candidate who will change our FAILED approach to diplomacy in the middle east, and the quest for Israeli/Palestinian peace.

Vote Obama in '08!

Rev. Hagee is a huge supporter of Israel. That is fact.

However, the reason he does support Israel is not because he is a rabid fan of Judaism. It is because he believes that Christ will only return after all Jewish people return there so Armegeddon can be unleashed on the world.

What is frightening, is that his followers believe that too and his influence on politics is to create this. These Jewish leaders do not endorse him, they enable him.

As a Jew, I was appalled when I saw on the web version of a major newspaper recently an apologia for Hagee in a brief letter signed by the presidents of several "major Jewish organizations." This sort of acceptance of any sort of support for Israel, under any circumstance, from any source, is the sort of narrow view from a people who should have learned by now that ignorant, literalist, fundamentalist, bigotry inures to the benefit of no one, friend or enemy.

As a Jew, I was appalled when I saw on the web version of a major newspaper recently an apologia for Hagee in a brief letter signed by the presidents of several "major Jewish organizations." This sort of acceptance of any sort of support for Israel, under any circumstance, from any source, is the sort of narrow view from a people who should have learned by now that ignorant, literalist, fundamentalist, bigotry inures to the benefit of no one, friend or enemy.

American Jews, in all their apsects, are so

interesting. And it's wonderful to talk about nothing else, day in and day out.

Like lots of columns by such as the winnder of the 2002 Guardian of Zion, Krauthammer. Who needs any other voices?

Nothing else is important!

The writer's comment on continuing to accept Rev. Hagee's support but denouncing his views on moral issues is tantamount to wanting a wife for relations but not the relationship. The prophet and his words are as inseperable as God and His Word. Either be for and with Rev. Hagee or totally against, but to pick and choose ia a form of hypocrisy that mirrors prostitution.

Of course McCain having changed denominations only three times! in the last five years @ 71 yrs of age is APPARENTLY NOT AN ISSUE.. As they have been saying for weeks now, trying to find a church which would be more politically expedient is most important! forget faithfulness to the people and the service to God in the community.

McCain hardly ever attends any church and doesn't have a pastor, he is not a member of any Church by his own admission. A baptist must be Baptised by full immersion to be a church member. The way he treats his family by the horrible things he says about his wife in public is a testament to that.

However, he would have been keenly following Hagee and for the last decade or so since he has been running for office trying to secure his endorsement purely for political purposes. IT IS THE HYPOCRISY OF IT ALL.

Of course McCain having changed denominations only three times! in the last five years @ 71 yrs of age is APPARENTLY NOT AN ISSUE.. As they have been saying for weeks now, trying to find a church which would be more politically expedient is most important! forget faithfulness to the people and the service to God in the community.

McCain hardly ever attends any church and doesn't have a pastor, he is not a member of any Church by his own admission. A baptist must Baptised by full immersion to be a church member. The way his treats his family by the horrible things he says about his wife in public is a testament to that.

However, he would have been keenly following Hagee and for the last decade or so since he has been running for office trying to secure his endorsement purely for political purposes. IT IS THE HYPOCRISY OF IT ALL.

All of this media-fueled brouhaha over Hagee's statements tend to take what the man was saying out of context. Like other evangelicals, I believe that Hagee was saying that in some Christian historical models it is believe that God guides history in certain general directions during certain times. During WWII we had a despicable evil on this earth in the incarnate form of Adolf Hitler. And God used that time in history to forward the incentive for Israel to fulfill prophecy by becoming a revived state due partly to the evil of Nazism and partly due to the world's turning of a blind eye to the horrors of the Holocaust. Some of us Christians to believe that God steps into or influences history at certain times - otherwise how could we believe that Jesus is the Son of God who was existent before His incarnation into the Roman world? How could we believe in the central heart of Christianity: the resurrection? Yes, Hagee is not the most articulate of representatives of evangelical beliefs but it is undeniable that he, like most of us, is pro-Jewish and believe that God Has a beautiful future in store for Israel and the Jewish people. But we also recognize that God can and does set the stage for His will to be done on earth. Why, when this country was a Christian nation we even sung about it in our hymns and Christmas carols. How much more can He take an awful situation, either man-made or Satan-inspired, and use it to set the stage for His will to be done for eventual good or for the furtherance of His plans for Jew and Gentile alike? We do not proselytize Jews because we believe that in God's eyes there are Jews, gentiles, and a third organism composed of both jew and gentile called the church, and it too was baptized in the fires of (early-centuries) persecutions. And as inheritors of that legacy it is far from us to believe that God inspired the Holocaust although He did use it for eventual good, which is far better than the nations did during that time.

Separation of church and state? – not so much.

http://pacificgatepost.blogspot.com/2008/05/religious-political-endorsements.html

Perhaps McCain is learning.

So as long as he supports Israeli/Jewish causes financially and rhetorically, he's OK with you...
By accepting his support in any way, you agree with and condone his stance. If Farrakhan said anything REMOTELY close to this......
It's funny how MONEY can make you overlook overt (so-called) anti-semitism.

if you believe for a minute that hagee's and his followers' concerns for jews are benign, you are as misled about the man as the first mrs. hagee. i'd bet my computer that you cannot find three of his parishioners who believe other than jews must convert or burn in hell. torquemada would be right at home among them.

but somehow, i suspect this is not news to the israelites who tolerate him and the idiotic certainties he espouses. its a case of two hustlers, going after each other. one believes in a myth, the other hard cash. hagee's bunch deserves to be taken.

Hagee's Jewish endorsers are Neocon Repukes.

I'd bet the farm on it.

As Repukes, they are too freakin' STUPID to realize they are supporting a bigoted whacko who thinks God sent Hitler to punish them.

But you can't criticize them or their Apartheit regime in Israel or you get smeared as anti-Semitic.

Like they did to Jimmy Carter.

AIPAC spies on the US. They were involved in the Franklin case. I bet the Hagee Jews think that was okay too.

Hagee's Jewish endorsers are Neocon Repukes.

I'd bet the farm on it.

As Repukes, they are too freakin' STUPID to realize they are supporting a bigoted whacko who thinks God sent Hitler to punish them.

But you can't criticize them or their Apartheit regime in Israel or you get smeared as anti-Semitic.

Like they did to Jimmy Carter.

AIPAC spies on the US. They were involved in the Franklin case. I bet the Hagee Jews think that was okay too.

The Christian-Jewish nexus is such that for every positive factor there is a negative factor. Jews remain for Christians a problem. They refused to accept Jesus and even worse they fought the early Christians in Palestine/Syria. For Christians they remain the doubters and they have always had good reasons to doubt. First, they knew that the real Jesus was not the Jesus Paul of Tarsus invented and sold to the Gentiles. They knew that those who knew Jesus best were the early Jewish-Christians or Ebionites who were marginalized and eventually disappeared. Christians know that the Jews have got their number and know that Christianity is a fraud. So they both hate and love them. In every Jew Christians see someone who knows that Christianity is a hoax.

Of course, GW Bush said all Jews are going to Hell....that is, until he took a trip to Israel with Abe Foxman and 'discovered' he was 'wrong'. He was wonderfully 'converted' when he discovered he wouldn't receive the Jewish vote without retracting what he said....and he did, of course....shallow little man that Bush is. Foxman even forced Bush to sign a document claiming as much. Stuff like this is never news, though. Even his grandpa, Prescott, laundering money for the NAZIS DURING WWII can't get a mention from our cowardly press. Can't offend the Bush family, though, if your dream is to be stupid rich.

Of course, GW Bush said all Jews are going to Hell....that is, until he took a trip to Israel with Abe Foxman and 'discovered' he was 'wrong'. He was wonderfully 'converted' when he discovered he wouldn't receive the Jewish vote without retracting what he said....and Foxman even forced Bush to sign a document claiming as much. Stuff like this is never news, though.

The Christian Zionists are a worse danger to Israel than Neturei Karta, a worse danger to Jews all over the world. When someone says that you will be slaughtered by Jesus if you don't betray your faith, this is not pro-Israel. If someone says that Hitler was God's messenger to tell you that you should move to Israel so that Jesus can slaughter you more conveniently, this is not pro-Judaism. Millions of Jews died horribly and, if God designed that, God is vicious and unworthy of love. If that kind of God gave us the mitzvot, I am going to have a ham and cheese in the honor of that kind of God.

Hagee and his ilk are evil and it is for us to say that loud and clear and to say that anyone who allies himself with the point of view he espouses, including Senator Joe Lieberman, has not got the interests of Jews, of Israel or of God at heart.

WHAT NOTHING TO SAY PEOPLE WHAT! HA! HA! bunch of id10t's