Happy Eid, America

testing

Seeing that pic of the Empire State Building lit up at night in green, the first thought that comes to my mind, it looks like a target. Hmmm, too bad the twin towers aren't still around to light up as well, too bad they weren't taken down along with thousands of innocent Americans by the very same people we're showing respect to by lighting up another large target, oops, I mean skyscraper.

Asim

The Sirat Rasulallah and the hadiths are the most authentic records of the words and deeds of Muhammad. Sunan Abu Dawud is accepted as a genuine collection of hadiths.

The man who had no qualms about having sex with children had no qualms either about massacring children.

His idea of children differs from that of our civilized society to which you, although you live in the West, refuse to belong.

To us a nine year old female is a child and not ready for sex even if she has begun menstruating. To the 56 year old Muhammad the 9 year old Aisha was ready for his bed.

To us a nine year old or a 11 year old boy is a child even if he has pubic hair.

To Muhammad the child was a ready candidate for his sword especially if the child was a Jew.

jailkkhosla,

U are so simple-minded:always trying to change the subject by this naive and childish deflective tactics;go ahead and read and re-read my post below, perhaps u will eventually get it.

Pubic hair?? what excotic,stupid and above all manufactured crietria is this?? All credible original historical resources confirm that only Adult Arms Carrying Combatants of the trechearous Banu Qurayzah were served the justice they deserved for their treason and treachery of the state of which they were citizens-a justice served not by the Prophet by their friend and condfidente whom the jews choose-Sa'ad Ben Muath.

Now why don't u complain about the tens of thousands of Palestinian infants,children with no pubic hair!!!), women and the elderly that are being slughtered daily by your racist apartheid jewish occupying entity in Palestine??

What about the 250,000 Bosnian Muslims who perished in the Serb genocidal war in 1991/2?? what about the 8000 Muslim men,boys and children who were massacred en masse by the followers of Jesus? what about the tens of thousands of Bosnian Muslim women of all ages including little girls and elederly women who were raped en masse by the Serb followers of Jesus????

What about the thousands of Palestinians who were tortured in israeli concentration camps to death and after death they were burried secretly in "Namless Numerical Grave yards" so they families will never be able to know of their fate or identity.

It is more relvenat to talk about and contest on going genocide and racism in "israel" than changing the topic by talking about fabircated lies that are supposed to have taken place in the 7th century.

Unfortunaetly no party or group have incited haterd and war against American Muslims and Muslims of the world than jewish groups especially AIPAC and its stooges:the American jewish establishment was the loudest voice that propmoted the war on Iaaq because the lethal "WMD's" that threatned "israel!!!!!!"

No group in America is actively engaged in a systamatic Strategy to put America on a collision course with the world's 1.5 billion Muslims than AIPAC and its necon supporters;WHY? because AIPAC and israel believe in a zero sum theory where any net harm to any Muslim in the world is a net gain to "israel."

If a nuclear war breaks out it will be in the ME and by "israel" against Iran under another false pretnse of WMD,again.

Asim

But how do you justify Muhammad and his thugs cutting off the heads of 11, 12 year old Jewish boys of Banu Qurayza merely because they had grown pubic hair? And then selling all the widows and orphans into slavery except for the child Rayhana whom he added to his harem to satisfy his sexual needs? Did your Arabic god Allah permit this? My reading of the Koran and the hadiths and the Sirat tell me that Allah condoned and praised Muhammad for his actions.

Here is the pube hadith from Sunan Abu Dawud, one of the six hadith collections accepted as genuine by Muslims.

Book 38, Number 4390:

Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi:

I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

Ted Baines & his AIPAC mercenaries

Either u are so profoundly ignorant of Islam and Islamic history or u are a propagandist Nazi style who repeats the same lies on these threads at every turn.

The Prophet Muhammad-pbuh-intercepted the Meccan trade routes because they forced him and his venerable companions out their home-Mecca-and confiscated their homes and possessions because he preached the belief in the one and the same God, the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad-as have the Jews forced and stolen the homeland and the property of the Palestinian people in full day light and in front of the “international community.”

The Prophet was the head of the Islamic state and the state treasury took 1/5 of the spoils of any party that aggressed upon the Muslims-not for him personally.

In fact The Prophet died penniless-his only possessions were his metal shield which was held by a Jewish pawn shop!!!!!!!! Your lies are outrageously naïve when u knowingly tries to falsify such obvious well-known facts.

This is perhaps the third time u repeat your lies about the treacherous Jewish tribe of Banu Quraizah who were a minority in Medina and as usual owned and operated Usury, pawn, gold and silver shops. I sum up their story again for the readers of this forum to expose your lies-and I base it on a multiplicity of original historical resources and find it amazing that u scram about a fabrication in the 7th century and yet u mention nothing at all about the genocide of 8000 Bosnian Muslims in Srebrenica who were part of the 250,000 Muslims murdered by the “Christian” Serbs modern barbarians in the heart of “civilized “Europe.

Now on the tribe of Banu Qurayezah: During the reign of the Prophet in the first Islamic city/state of Medina early 7th century, every one was a full citizen with full civic and religious rights: the new Muslims, Christians, the Jews and the Pagans of Arabia. The Quran states unequivocally that” No Compulsion in Religion).The Prophet who just established the first Islamic city/state in Medina, had signed a treaty with-among others-the Jewish tribe of Banu Qorizah-to defend the new state and where the treaty stipulated that the members of this tribe being citizens of the new Islamic city-state agreed never to ally themselves with the enemies of the infant Islamic state nor to carry arms against it in exchange for granting them-the Jewish tribe- the aforementioned full citizenship rights including guarantying their protection and security. However the Jewish tribe conspired with enemies of the Islamic state and committed treason, treachery and violated the treaty by joining the enemies of the state against the Muslims during and after the Ditch Confrontation with the Meccan heathen alliance when the Muslim state was very vulnerable and threatened with annihilation.

The Islamic state, lead by the Prophet defeated the aggressors on the battlefield; thereafter the Prophet and the leaders of the Jewish tribe mutually agreed to appointing an acceptable and neutral arbitrator/Judge to rule on the treachery and violation of the treaty which the Jewish tribe committed and the Judge ruled that the Jewish tribe was guilty of both joint military aggression with the enemies of the infant Islamic state as well as treason thru violating the signed treaty with the Prophet as they were citizens of Islamic state. The judge ordered the death penalty to be carried out against the treacherous male adult combatants who carried arms against the Islamic state-as any state would do in self-defense even by modern standards of international law. The numbers of those deserving the death penalty has been both exaggerated and fabricated by Jews as usual. The judge, Sa’ad ben Muath, was a trusted friend of the Jewish tribe, a reason for the fact that they choose him from among many others.

At the time there was no AIPAC’s, no forty three Jewish members of congress and biased media to defend those Jewish traitors-as the case was with the Israeli aggression on the USS Liberty during the 1967 war which was tucked underneath the AIPAC carpet-and as was the numerous espionage activities on the US committed by US Jews whose sworn loyalty is to the racist, apartheid and militaristic Jewish theocracy-isreal-Jonathan Pollard is a case in point.

This country is so screwed.

Asım from Texas,

You blame Bush,but you are living in Bush's State/Texas.Why dont you go to Promised Land(yes,of course,absulotely Promised Land) and help Poors in Hamasistan ?

If anyones misquote from quran and sunnah,why *correct quoters/interpreters* intervene and blame those *misquotations* ? Who and which islamic goverments blame Saudi Arabia ?
Who had blamed Taliban ?
Who is criticizing Malaysia and Indonesia ?
Which islamic Government,in the World,blaming Islamic Republic of Iran ?

Bosnian muslims had been saved by US and NATO forces.What did muslims do ? Libya leader Quaddafi gave weapons to Serbians.Yes,absolutely.
Bosnia had been salvaged by US.Shall you not thank to US ? No,you shall not.

Because,because,because;
*Ungratefullness is the base of islam*Yes,thousand times yes.

Astoria/Victoria,
Indian member of former Victoria team.

Islam intervenes the intercourse between husband and his wives/concubines.
Submission intervenes what you eat and what you drink.
Islam intervenes what you wear and how you dressed up.
Submission intervenes how you murder the infidels,for example 47.4 *smite their necks* or 5.33 *cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides*
Islam intervenes whom you take your friends 5.51

Indian woman Astoria aka Victoria,
Is this correct and logical ?

And,there is No Compulsion in Submission.

Halozcel

The topic is about Eid Al Fitr-end of Ramadan feast-and the noble gesture of tolerance,sensitivity and understanding of lighting up green the empire state building.

But no and as usual-this decent forum is hijacked by the very same cut/paste barking dogs who spout their usual venom and haterd:extremist AIPAC jews and radical right wing neocons xtians-the same gangs that produced the Florida film to smear ISlam and Muslim by taking advatgae of the large jewish community in that state.

A Muslim can equally mis-quote endlessely from the bible and out line the horrendous crimes by christian west which have absloutely no Muslim equivalent: the Crusaders against the Muslim East, the Spanish Iquisition mainly against the Spanish Muslims and also the jews-both promoted and sustained by the Catholic Church according to the doctorine of Jssus;colonialism-France alone murderd over four million Alegerians from 1830-1962 when the Alegerians evicted the French
from Alegeria;the conquest of South America and the en masse conversions of its indigenous population to xtianity,the decimatiom of that population and its culture; two world wars with tens of millions peoople dead;the nuking of hudreds of thousands of JApanese civilians during that war;the holocaust of six million jews,the recent genocide of over 250,000 Bosnian Muslims AND the illigitimate creation of a racist,apartheid, militaristic jewish theocracy in historic Arab Palestine-and its horrendous and longest military occupation in modern history and nazi style collective punishement of the Palestinian people, with 70% od whom were ethnically cleanesed by jewish terrorist gangs-HAgana,Shtern,Palmach and IRgun (PM candidate ttzvi livin's parents were members in Irgun terror group.

Again there is absloutely no Muslim equivalent in all Islamic history of such western christain and jewish attrocities. Ye Shall know them by the fruits of deeds.

These attrocities are a true reflection of the teachings of the bible and the so called judo-christain culture of hate and destruction.

Bush and this
Paplin decleraed in the jesus that the invasion,destruction and occupation of IRaq on false pretense is AN ACT of God!!!!!!! what kind of god that slaughters one million Iraqis and turn four million others into refugees.

Obviuos Conclusion: Either the scriptures of the so called christians and jews who commited these crimes against God and humanity are false or those people are false believers and not true to these scriptures -or both at once.

Unless of course JEsus was a blood and oil thirsty as confirmed by GWB and PAlin.

If the misquotations from the Quran and the Sunnah were true, they would have been rfelected in a long history of ISlam-which has always been of peace and tolerance.

Where are the comments??

Vicki aka Astoria

Which version or translation did you get the following from"

[2:187] Permitted for you is sexual intercourse with your wives during the nights of fasting. They are the keepers of your secrets, and you are the keepers of their secrets. GOD knew that you used to betray your souls, and He has redeemed you, and has pardoned you. Henceforth, you may have intercourse with them, seeking what GOD has permitted for you. You may eat and drink until the white thread of light becomes distinguishable from the dark thread of night at dawn. Then, you shall fast until sunset. Sexual intercourse is prohibited if you DECIDE TO RETREAT TO THE MASJID (during the last ten days of
Ramadan). These are GOD's laws; you shall not transgress them. GOD thus clarifies His revelations for the people, that they may attain salvation.

Victoria aka astoria

The ayat in the Pickthall version are Muhammad's words via his mouthpiece Allah. The words in the footnotes, that I have not read, are Pickthalls.

Who will you obey: Moe/Allah or Pickthall?

I have consulted with Iraqis who speaks Arabic at home and he concurs after reading the Arabic version that men are required to, must, stay and pray in the mosque. there is no choice.

Women are not required to fast but must allow men sexual intercourse between the hours after sunset and before sunrise.

Read 2:183 again. Fasting is decreed for believers. In the Koran believers are men. When Moe wanted to address women he made it clear such as using the words believeing women. Fasting is compulsory for men except if they are sick or travelling. Moe was not all that bad.

Since I pointed out the obvious that men must stay in the mosques and pray, you were stumped and attacked me personally.

I do not hate Muslims, some Muslims I do not like just as some Hindus I do not like.

I hate Islam in its current form just as I hate many aspects of Hinduism as written down in the first set of scriptures, the Vedas. Fortunately for the Gita and then the Upanishads corrected the faults of the Vedas but not completely. I am writing a book on Post Vedantism that attempts to go one step further and make Hinduism even better.

Those that belive in the True God must accept out of respect for the True God, that scriptures including the Koran were written by humans and are the words of humans. If you insist that the Koran is word of God, albeit through the angel Gerbil, you are committing blasphemy.

In the case of Muhammad he was trying to refashion Arabic society and then developed a larger vision of a global community based on archaic 7th century Arabic values.

the Koran has many defects. It is up to Muslims to rectify them.

In the case of Ramdan it is very easy.

Remove the requirement that men must stay in mosques and pray as that is not practical given that many men work for non-Muslim organizations and need to work to support their families and will get fired if they miss work for a whole month.

Make the fast optional for men also.

Advice all fasters to drink at least water every four hours or more often as not drinking fluids is very harmful to the body, that may explain the violence present in Muslim societies and in societies with large Muslim minorities. There were more than one bombing in India during Ramdan and many were killed.

Since you are an American woman maried to a non-American Muslim man, you might urge the revision of the ayat in which Moe command men to beat their wives for disobedience, 4:34.

JAI- oops- in my remembrance- I forgot-
let me make clear-
there is certainly no decree or command nor COMPULSION as you wrongly insert next to the ayat-for men to stay in the mosques every night-

We all have biases- that is natural for folks to have an inclination for, or away from a thing or person.

But, bias becomes bigotry when we seek to dehumanize the "other".

Your attmepts to vilify Islam, and Muslims- is rightfully called bigotry.

And you had to misrepresent Islam to demonize it- because, it is obvious-from the ayats presented- that your assertions are not true, but born of a sad desire to slander and contort the object of your prejudice.

Poor Jai.

[2:183] O you who believe, fasting is decreed for you, as it was decreed for those before you, that you may attain salvation.

[2:184] Specific days (are designated for fasting); if one is ILL or traveling, an equal number of other days may be substituted. Those who can fast, but with great difficulty, may substitute feeding one poor person for each day of breaking the fast. If one volunteers (more righteous works), it is better. But fasting is the best for you, if you only knew.

[2:185] Ramadan is the month during which the Quran was revealed, providing guidance for the people, clear teachings, and the statute book. Those of you who witness this month shall fast therein. Those who are ill or traveling may substitute the same number of other days. GOD WISHES FOR YOU CONVENIENCE, NOT HARDSHIP, that you may fulfill your obligations, and to glorify GOD for guiding you, and to express your appreciation.

[2:186] When My servants ask you about Me, I am always near. I answer their prayers when they pray to Me. The people shall respond to Me and believe in Me, in order to be guided.

[2:187] Permitted for you is sexual intercourse with your wives during the nights of fasting. They are the keepers of your secrets, and you are the keepers of their secrets. GOD knew that you used to betray your souls, and He has redeemed you, and has pardoned you. Henceforth, you may have intercourse with them, seeking what GOD has permitted for you. You may eat and drink until the white thread of light becomes distinguishable from the dark thread of night at dawn. Then, you shall fast until sunset. Sexual intercourse is prohibited if you DECIDE TO RETREAT TO THE MASJID (during the last ten days of
Ramadan). These are GOD's laws; you shall not transgress them. GOD thus clarifies His revelations for the people, that they may attain salvation.

ANOTHER TRANSLATION OF THE SAME AYAT(VERSE)

002.187
YUSUFALI: Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what Allah Hath ordained for you, and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast Till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives WHILE YE ARE IN RETREAT IN THE MOSQUES. Those are Limits (set by) Allah: Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men: that they may learn self-restraint.

JAI commented-
"Muhammad also commanded through his mouthpiece the Arabic god Allah that all Muslim men must stay in the mosque from daybreak to dusk and pray. Read ayat 2:187."

You misunderstood- that is the danger of taking ANY text- especially a translation that assumes the same background knowledge s the author- and cherry-picking it to prove or disprove a pre-conceived bias-
You are using Pickthall's translation, which is fine- but you are not using his footnotes.

The ayats on fasting- have varying degrees of ease (like in 2:185)
"GOD WISHES FOR YOU CONVENIENCE, NOT HARDSHIP"
and are intended to show one's appreciation of and devotion to ALLAH-

Clearly NOT to put an undue burden on folks- as you misinterpret.

If some brothers CHOOSE to stay in the mosque for the last 10 days of Ramadan- to intensify their knoweldge, share and worship together- it is a beautiful and spiritually uplifting experience for them.

The community welcomes them, feeding and encouraging them.

If, of course, their familial obligations are taken care of- most wives I know are proud and happy to have their husbands bring those extra blessings into their home-

We had a band of Indian ladies come from London every year too- the wives of the brothers in the mosques- and we literally used to argue good-naturedly about the honor of entertaining their visit.

Sometimes the poor women would have to put up woth us by staying in different sister's homes almost every night- so strong was our desire to be in their company and learn from them- as they were very learned ladies and inspired us all-

Sometimes we would be crammed tight in a sister's small apartment- and more would keep coming! And each lady with a new plate of some treat-
We would spend an hour or so reading and praying, then take a break and snack all the goodies- and discuss what we had read and just share and love each other-

How sadly and tragically you misunderstand- I moved to another city- and haven't found a new group of ladies here- and I really miss that experience this Ramadan.

But thanks for reminding me-

Fuzzytruthseeker

here are two hadiths, one on the requirement that men stay in the mosque during the day and pray and the other on urine as medicine.

From the Koran

2:187 Compulsion to stay and pray in the mosque

It is made lawful for you to go in unto your wives on the night of the fast. They are raiment for you and ye are raiment for them. Allah is Aware that ye were deceiving yourselves in this respect and He hath turned in mercy toward you and relieved you. So hold intercourse with them and seek that which Allah hath ordained for you, and eat and drink UNTIL THE WHITE THREAD BECOMETH DISTINCT FROM THE BLACK THREAD OF THE DAWN. THEN STRICTLY OBSERVE THE FAST TILL NIGHTFALL AND TOUCH THEM NOT, BUT BE AT YOUR DEVOTIONS IN THE MOSQUES. These are the limits imposed by Allah, so approach them not. Thus Allah expoundeth His revelation to mankind that they may ward off (evil)

From the hadith collections by Sahih Bukhari

Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234:

Narrated Abu Qilaba:

Anas said, "Some people of 'Ukl or 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron, They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them."

Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle ."

Fuzzytruthseeker

You seem to be afraid of the truth but I will give it to you anyway.

All societies have realized that humans overeat and one of their attempts was to fast so as to give the metabolic tools the body has a rest and a chance to recoup and perhaps clean out the colon.

We Hindus fast one day a week and it it lasts a full 36 hours with the intake of water mixed with a little lime or orange juice. My last meal is around 6 PM Friday and then the next meal is on Sunday around 10 AM but plenty of water during the fast.

It works especially when I break the cardinal Hindu rule of not eating beef and bacon and then my system goes off kilter.

I also fast three days every quarter and try to fast once a year for 7 to 8 days.

We do not commit blasphemy by claiming that God ordered us to fast. And especially we do not claim that God asked us to refrain from liquids during the fast. God would never give such a foolish command.

Unfortunately Muhammad lived in the 7th century and did not understand the importance of drinking fluids every four hours and as a result spoke through his mouthpiece, the Arabic god Allah, when he issued this foolish dictum. Muhammad even prescribed camel urine mixed with the milk of milch camel as a cure for stomach upsets. Perhaps you should follow your sunnah and partake of this elixir daily.

Again missing lunch is not fasting, it is missing lunch and nothing more.

Muhammad also commanded through his mouthpiece the Arabic god Allah that all Muslim men must stay in the mosque from daybreak to dusk and pray. Read ayat 2:187.

If you had been a good Muslim you would take the entire month of Ramadan off and stay in the mosque from dawn to dusk and offer namaz to the Arabic god Allah.

I appreciate this gesture very much from the officials at Empire State Building and of New York City. This is what is an example of the maganimity of truly great cities.

SADLY, ALL POORER AMERICANS NO MATTER WHAT RELIGION,NEED GOD TO LOBBY OUR US CONGRESS !!!

SURELY OUR US CONGRESS & US SUPREME COURT BOTH KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN STATE MURDER & EXECUTION IN GEORGIA THIS NEXT WEEK ???

OUR US CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS OF THE FREE WORLD CONTINUE TO DENY MIDDLE CLASS AND WORKING POOR AMERICANS PROPER LEGAL REPRESENTATION EVEN THOUGH WRONGFUL EXECUTIONS & FALSE INCARCERATIONS CONTINUE ALL ACROSS AMERICA ???

*** 700 BILLION $$$ AVAILABLE FOR US BAILOUT, & NO $$$ FOR ALL POORER AMERICANS PROPER LEGAL REPRESENTATION ???????

WHERE ALSO ARE AMERICA 'S RELIGIOUS LEADERS ??
SENATOR OBAMA, THIS JUDICIAL INJUSTICE HAS BECOME AN AMERICAN ART FORM, AND NO LONGER CAN BE KEPT HIDDEN OR SECRET FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE EVEN IF CERTAIN (501c3) U$ RELIGIOU$ LEADER$ HAVE BEEN $ILENCED ??

LETS ALL HOPE OUR MEDIA FRIENDS CONTINUE TO SHOW AN INTEREST IN REPORTING ON THIS AMERICAN HORROR FACING THESE (TENS OF THOUSANDS) FORGOTTEN AND TRAPPED POORER AMERICANS, AND HOW THIS PRESIDENTIAL CONTENDER HANDLES THIS VERY SERIOUS ISSUE FACING AMERICA'S LATINO AND BLACK AMERICAN COMMUNITIES ????

WITH 80% OF THE BLACK AMERICAN VOTERS SAYING THEY SUPPORT SENATOR OBAMA IN THIS PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, IT IS ONLY FAIR FOR EVERYONE TO KNOW PRIOR BEING ELECTED OUR NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HOW THIS DEMOCRATIC SENATOR TRULY FEELS ABOUT THIS AMERICAN JUDICIAL INJUSTICE CONTINUING TO INFLICT GRAVE HARM ON THE BLACK & LATINO AMERICAN FAMILIES AND THEIR COMMUNITIES NATIONWIDE ??????

*** WHEN GOD'S FACE BECAME VERY RED ***
THE US SUPREME COURT GAVE ENEMY COMBATANTS FEDERAL APPEAL HC RIGHTS LAWYERS AND PROPER ACCESS TO US FEDERAL COURTS,AND POORER AMERICANS (MANY EVEN ON DEATH ROW) ARE DENIED PROPER FEDERAL APPEAL LEGAL REPRESENTATION TO OUR US FEDERAL COURTS OF APPEAL, AND ROTTING IN AMERICAN PRISONS NATIONWIDE ?????????

**** INNOCENT AMERICANS ARE DENIED REAL HC RIGHTS WITH THEIR FEDERAL APPEALS !
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE $LOWLY FINDING OUT HOW EA$Y IT I$ FOR MIDDLE CLA$$ AND WORKING POOR AMERICAN$ TO FALL VICTIM TO OUR U$ MONETARY JUDICIAL $Y$TEM.

****WHEN THE US INNOCENT WERE ABANDONED BY THE GUILTY ****
The prison experts have reported that there are 100,000 innocent Americans currently being falsely imprisoned along with the 2,300,000 total US prison population nationwide.

Since our US Congress has never afforded poor prison inmates federal appeal legal counsel for their federal retrials,they have effectively closed the doors on these tens of thousands of innocent citizens ever being capable of possibly exonerating themselves to regain their freedom through being granted new retrials.

This same exact unjust situation was happening in our Southern States when poor and mostly uneducated Black Americans were being falsely imprisoned for endless decades without the needed educational skills to properly submit their own written federal trial appeals.

This devious and deceptive judicial process of making our poor and innocent prison inmates formulate and write their own federal appeal legal cases for possible retrials on their state criminal cases,is still in effect today even though everyone in our US judicial system knows that without proper legal representation, these tens of thousands of innocent prison inmates will be denied their rightful opportunities of ever being granted new trials from our federal appeal judges!!

Sadly, the true US *legal* Federal Appeal situation that occurs when any of our uneducated American prison inmates are forced to attempt to submit their own written Federal Appeals (from our prisons nationwide) without the assistance of proper legal counsel, is that they all are in reality being denied their legitimate rights for Habeas Corpus with our US FEDERAL COURTS and will win any future Supreme Court Case concerning this injustice!

For our judicial system and our US Congressional Leaders Of The Free World to continue to pretend that this is a real and fair opportunity for our American Middle Class and Working Poor Citizens, only delays the very needed future change of Federal Financing of all these Federal appeals becoming a normal formula of Our American judicial system.

It was not so very long ago that Public Defenders became a Reality in this country.Prior that legal reality taking place, their were also some who thought giving anyone charged with a crime a free lawyer was a waste of taxpayers $$.

This FACADE and HORROR of our Federal Appeal proce$$ is not worthy of the Greatest Country In The World!
***GREAT SOCIETIES THAT DO NOT PROTECT EVEN THEIR INNOCENT, BECOME THE GUILTY!

A MUST READ ABOUT AMERICAN INJUSTICE:
1) YAHOO AND 2) GOOGLE
MANNY GONZALES THE KID THAT EVERYONE FORGOT IN THE CA PRISON SYSTEM.
** A JUDICIAL RIDE OF ONES LIFE !

lawyersforpooramericans@yahoo.com
(424-247-2013)

Israel- Its formation was approved by the UN in 1948. It should honor the original UN agreement and live within the described borders.

Considering the hate generated by passages in the koran, erecting dividing walls between Muslims and Jews was a great idea. UN forces should control these walls.

And Jerusalem should be made into an international city under the control and protection of the UN.

On this holiday lets honor the living legend and Icon at 93, Les Paul. A true pioneer in music.
http://www.squidoo.com/Les_Paul

Long Live America.

Am delighted at this small but commandable gesture of lighting up the Empire State Building for end of Ramamdan-which goes a long way to reducing the taste of bitterness of American Muslims over the collective punishment and hate crimes against them by the jewish extremist groups and necons-the cut and paste hate crimes as in the shameful film distrubted in Florida which is a case in point.

I believe that all fellow American Muslims-thru Muslim and Civil Rights groups- should revert to American Justice to ban this hatred shameful film aginst Muslims and sue all involved in its production and distribution.

Hell would have broken loose had Judaism, the jews and the racist apartheid entity and its crimes against the occupied Palestinians, had the subject of that film.

I think this country is very forgiving to Muslims who blew up 3000 Americans for no reason.

I think Islam like Communism insults others when they call their nations Islamic. There are 57 of them. A Muslim is much more likely to be homicidal and suicidal than a Commie. If American can ban communists then why not Muslims?

Ikhan14,

COW chapter,2.161 says *Those who reject islam and die rejecting,on them is the curse of Allah*
8.12 says *I(Allah) will cast FEAR/TERROR into hearts of those who disbelieve/non-muslim*

Could you please to write *real meaning* of those verses(such as many others) ?

Peacemover,

*Peace* can not be provided by empty words,sophistry and myths.
Submission curses Trinity.Submission curses Jewish People.
In terms of Submission,there are only two kinds of men.
A-Muslim,B-Non-muslim/Infidel.There is no third group of men.

There is no such as tenet in Submission *do unto others as you would have them do unto you*
Muslim excels non-muslim/infidel,
Man excels woman. Indisputable.

Golden Rule is,only and only,Human Rights and Contemporary Values.Would you show any islamic country that has Golden Rule ?

Islam is not compatable to a secular nation or with freedom. Nothing to be proud of here, we are following Europes footsteps, it is unfortunate. I wonder how many Christmas lights are up in islamic nations in December.

Halozcel

*this city(New York) was terrorized by individuals who called themselves Muslims*
No,no.This is not realistic opinion.It is exact *Obsession*
They(terrorists) were not indivuals who called themselves muslims.They were muslims.Yes,they were muslims.They were natural born muslims.
Most of their names were Mohammed,the founder of islam.They well planned,intended and trained(pilot) for attack.They did not because of their personal affairs,but in the name of thier Cult/Submission.

Solution,yes,solution is not Interactive/Interfaith concept.Those only provide *Bridgehead* to submission followers and everybody will see what happens when submission followers/muslims reach ten percent of US population.

It seems to me,Green is repulsive color.
Green represents Fanaticism.
Green is submission and subjugation.
Dont derail from Red&White and Yellow&Dark Blue.

Halozcel

The Empire State Building should be bathed in red in honor of those who have been murdered because of Islam and the dictates of the warmongering, violent passages of the koran.

To wit:

1) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops (3,378 combat 795 non-combat) and 87,643 – 95,664
Iraqi civilians, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

JAIKKHOSLA,

The likes of you are to low for me to try to redeem. But, yes, I let you know in case you want to redeem yourself. Don't want to and cherish your hatred too much? Be my guest!

Daisy - Eid Mubarak to you and yours from this Pagan. I don't follow your religion, but I'll take any excuse to have a party!

To all of the haters that are going on about that disgusting DVD, "Obsession", did you know that children at a mosque in Dayton were sprayed with pepper spray this past weekend? Right after the DVD hit the streets? Police are claiming that it wasn't a hate crime (yeah, right), but two guys just happened to be hanging out in front of a mosque with pepper spray?
http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/09/27/ddn092608evacweb.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=16

This is what this DVD has wrought. Attacking children. I'm sure that whoever did this thought that they were striking a blow for truth, justice, and the American way.

Ms. Khan,

Thank you for your thoughtful and timely reflections on Eid, and may I wish you a belated "Ramadan Mubarak." I am of the Christian faith, but my life has been deeply enriched by my friendship and fellowship with a number of Muslim believers. One factor that is often overlooked, sadly, amongst all the politics and prejudice-filled rhetoric in the public square is that A) the three major monotheistic religions (Christianity, Islam, and Judaism) all claim Abraham as the father of their faiths, and B) each religion is rightfully considered "peoples of the book" for the common themes and figures woven in and through their scriptures.

Even greater and broader, virtually every religion and belief system in the world- even humanism and some atheistic belief systems- subscribe to some form of "The Golden Rule" (i.e. 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you,' 'love your neighbor as yourself,' etc). We are entering an era when there is a broadening of good will, interfaith dialogue and commemorations (i.e. commemorations like that done by the Empire State Bldg, as well as the interfaith dialogue occurring in forums like beliefnet, etc). Sadly, however, there are also expanded efforts by biggoted groups, like those behind the disgraceful, fear-mongering, anti-Muslim slurs contained in that dvd sent to 28 million people who did not ask for it. Even figures on the left, who supposedly pride themselves for their inclusivity and social tolerance (i.e. Bill Maher) are stepping up their anti-religion invective in the public square.

I think we all need to read the Golden Rule at the beginning of each and every day, and also have the courage to engage in respectful, open, interfaith dialogue. I believe it is possible to both embrace the distinctive traditions, values and practices of one's belief system or religion, while also learning from and cultivating authentic friendships with people and groups of other faiths. If we are to thrive as a human race and make the greatest impact in reducing suffering and making the world a better place, such efforts are essential.

Thanks again for your excellent and timely reflections!

Peace in the name of all that is holy to you,

John Olsen
Abington, PA

Three cheers for the Empire State building in their decision to light for Eid -- and for standing out as a beacon of light amongst the darkness of all those who still belittle humanity by choosing to hate their fellow man.

i see i have been censored by the post please support free speech in america apparently the post does not i have carefully read thier rules and have violed noe wecome the the us-sr

perhaps the correct answer to this one is answered by you ..i see no fault in your logic... and it is maybe backed up in real life by a new york bussiness that has always amused me with thier number of days the bussines is closed for religious holidays.. they seem to observe and celebrate them all and i have alway envied thier employees getting so many paid holidays lol. they sell photography and sound equipment and if i am not mistaken may be the largest store of this kind in america .. certainly newyork city and have been in business many years... maybe that is the correct answer for ever one every where. instead of halting celebrations for feear someone would be offended .. make sure every one gets to celebrate fully and openly the ones it didn't pertain to could maybe just look away at something that interest thme.. kind of like what middle class and poor people do when they see the extravagances of the super rich even though they know it was gained at times upon the suffering caused to them...possibly religion and faith is better more noble reason than the desire to more than ones fair share in life at the expense of others.. i do realize not all wealth is gained in this manner the world i suspect has many story like paul newamn .. but that does change the, i think needless suffering of many so a few who willl never have enough and are mentallly ill... not role models can harvest the misery of the poor.. business when done honestly and fairly enriches the owner the employees and the customers its almost like magic.. profit is truely not.. a dirty word but obscen profit and congames and fraud and anti trust violations and predatory businees practice are and in many are illegal and need to be prosecuted fully and menaifull jail terms and the loss of the privilidge to do business should be a penalty. in the world.for the people who caused with thier finacial games so much pain ... please expect these people to show up in very large numbers to your gated comunities ... peacefully if you allow them to be ... but have no illusions , thoughout history when the poor have become starved by the rich ,,,they are force to eat the rich or at the very least take back what was stolen... not sold in business there is a fundimental difference. wall st. could easily repeal the bankrupsy law of 2005 instead of asking the poor and middle class to sign papers saying thier next generation will be indentured servants or share croppers.. when the banks are holding thier own pockets shut , trapped by the bill they bought and paid for don't expect main st. to bail you out. thier problems arise from not being able to accout for debt that will not be collected... that was the puirpose of the personal bankruptsy laws.. what we see is an over fedd gorged money stuffed finacial sector in great need of a metaphorical bowel movement... you don't fee more food to contipated people and you don't sell an entire generations future just to make the problem worse.. they are quite correct they are in a strangle hold and choking the part they need to understand is it is thier own hand choking them and they simply need to let go. have you ever seen the trapps they use to catch some stupid animals. it has food they can see but have to reach though a narrow area to get the large peice of food the animal becomes trapped and capptured when it refuses to let go of the food it can't get thus enslaving itself.. but please check 4 truth if any is contained here

How wonderful!

Perhaps, the lighting of our Empire State Building symbolizes a city and, indeed, a nation ready to begin to heal.

I hope so...as I hope the value of inclusion remains in the forefront of this process.

Let us talk to each other.

Let us learn from and about each other in order that the darkest day in our American history never, ever be repeated...that we may focus on our common, most critical problems...together.

Happy Eid to our American and global Muslim brothers and sisters.

www.everyoneisincluded.us

Most of the people who commented here have no brains to really think wisely. On one hand the so called christians and hindus preach the lesson of tolerance and on the other hand expliot other religion. I went to the bible study and found that what you read in the bible it is hard to understand unless a pastor or teacher open up word by word to explain the true meaning. Same thing applies to Quran also. Unfortunetly idiots who have no clue about the real meaning bring the passage out of context with no understand of anything and claim they know the meaning. Please stop spreading the message of hate and despair. We have enough problems at our hand already to deal with. Can't we accept the fact that we all make mistakes and learn from them. I bet people who think muslims are evil have never met the extra ordinary muslims who are more in majorty for peace and progress. Every religion has fundamentalist crazy few but do not blame all the people. Remember hate will only increase more hate and we all will sooner or later face the consequenses of our own hateful mind. Let peace and love prevail.

The Empire State Building should be bathed in the red in honor of those who have been murdered because of Islam and the dictates of its warmongering, violent dictates of the koran.

To wit:

1) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops (3,378 combat 795 non-combat) and 87,643 – 95,664
Iraqi civilians, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

These boards are so depressing. What is it with these idiots who keep "quoting the Qu'ran" in an effort to get us to hate muslims?

I got news for you: I don't care. Whatever the topic, you people seem to turn it back to how we should all hate Islam and you quote random lines to back up your hatred. It gets old.

I wish the Post would stop with these chats; there's nothing of value when a couple posters post 50 freaking times, running paragraphs long, just to tell us they are, apparently, theologians on a religion they knew nothing about in 2000.

FuzzyTruthSeeker

You said "I am just about to be going to mosque for Eid prayers, having fasted a full month, as I have done for the past 45 years, since the age of 15."

Please do not exaggerate. You did not fast. You merely missed lunch that millions of non-Muslims do every day. Ramadan is more aptly called SkipLunchaaDaan.

I eat some cereal before I leave for work and my next meal is when I come home in the evening. I however do not make the highly inadvisable practice of missing fluids. Missing fluids is criminal to the body. A very bad practice especially when 15 year olds are made to avoid fluids. We should drink a glass of water every four hours. The True God would never command us to harm our bodies by not drinking fluids and harming our bodies.

Besides did you obey the Koran and spend the time between daybreak and sunset in the mosque? Read ayat 2:187 and you will know what I mean. If not you are disobeying your Arabic god Allah.

Robert 2008,

I am just about to be going to mosque for Eid prayers, having fasted a full month, as I have done for the past 45 years, since the age of 15.

When I read Daisy'e article, I had tears coming down my cheeks, and I was going to comment "No, matter what, we Muslims should be grateful for the act of inclusiveness, and reciprocate and forgive.

Then I read your post, and I got angry and I wanted to say "NO, we don't need any lighting of the Empire State Building; the light, we carry it in our hearts".

But then again I had second thoughts: "Robert2008 is only ONE American; maybe there may be 30000 like him; that would make .01% of the American population. No more than about ten times the proportion of Muslims who might have entertained mindless thoughts of violent resistance to what they perceive as Western aggression against the values they hold as dearest".

And I thought that I would hail Daisy's celebration of American inclusiveness, and we will respond with even greater reciprocity.

I forgot one thing in my previous posts. "America's favorite building" is not the Empire State Building. It is (or was) the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center. Incidentally, these towers were destroyed by Muslims along with a few thousand lives by the grace of Allah the most gracious, the most merciful.................

Daisy Khan, you claim that "Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West" distorts reality, but you offer not a single example of how the film is inaccurate. As for your claim that "hate crimes against Muslims increased 1,600 percent," that is a grandiose claim, but you don't back it up with any evidence. One statement is true though, "prejudice-based propaganda has historical precedent"... yes, lots of prejudice-based propaganda coming from Muslims.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

The above site will allow you to study the Koran and some of the hadith books deemed acceptable by Muslims. Here is a gem from Sunan Abu Dawud.

Book 38, Number 4396:

Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:

A thief was brought to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him). He said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his hand. So his (right) hand was cut off. He was brought a second time and he said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his foot.

So his (left) foot was cut off.

He was brought a third time and he said: Kill him.

The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!

So he said: Cut off his hand. (So his (left) hand was cut off.)

He was brought a fourth time and he said: Kill him.

The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!

So he said: Cut off his foot. So his (right) foot was cut off.

He was brought a fifth time and he said: Kill him.

So we took him away and killed him. We then dragged him and cast him into a well and threw stones over him.

More details on these massacres can be had by visiting the following links. You can do a search by typing pubes or pubic hair.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/038.sat.html#038.4390

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.281

There is a difference between respecting a religion and respecting its members.

We must all respect the right of Muslims to believe in the Islamic mythology so long as they do not break our laws. For example Islam allows young girls to be married off to old men. Islam's founder Muhammad married a six year old child, Aisha, when he was 52 years old and consummated the marriage when she turned 9. Muhammad's example is sunnah for Muslims, that it is acceptable to emulate his actions. But US laws would class such actions as statutory rape. Therefore Muslims may not emulate Muhammad in this regard in the US. Another example of an action that is kosher or halal in Islam but not acceptable by US laws is wife beating.

On the other hand it is a different matter when it comes to respecting Islam. Islam was the creation of Muhammad. It is impossible for any thinking person who believes in freedom and justice to respect Islam and Muhammad. The Koran, the hadiths( six books) and the Sirat Rasulallah ( the first and most reliable biography of Muhammad) give us great details about Muhammad and the picture that emerges is not pretty. The hadiths and the Sirat, for example tell us of the massacre of 800 male Jews of the Banu Qurayza tribe in one evening by Muhammad and his men. The Koran by allusion condones and praises this massacre. Muhammad then sold all the widows and children into slavery, except for Rayhana, and his take was 20%, again made kosher or halal by the Koran. Fifteen year old Rayhana was saved because Muhammad chose her to be his concubine and added her to his harem. Posted at the bottom of this message is a hadith that shows how Muhammad determined which male Jew was an adult and therefore must be killed.

The teachings of Islam reflect Muhammad and his thinking.

To ask non-Muslims to respect Islam is not fair.

The Empire State owners are wrong in lighting up the building as it shows they respect Islam but by lighting it up and forcing non-Muslims passerbys such as me to look at they are forcing the passerbys respect a religion that we find not worthy of respect.

From the hadith collection by Abu Dawud, one of the six collections accepted as authentic by Muslim scholars.

Book 38, Number 4390:

Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi:

I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair

Mark25:
1 - I haven't seen "Obsession so I don't know what you are talking about.
2 - I didn't mean you were Muslim, I meant you believed in mythology, supernatural beings, miracles and ancient books men have written about gods.
3 - I don't know what IhateIslam.com is, so I don't know what you are talking about. I just read the news in newspapers, watch the news on TV, read the news on the internet, listen to the news on the radio.
4 - These "terrible acts of terrorism" are done by Muslims.
5 - They are people who believe in the Koran and Mohammad. They are Muslim. They are not categorized.
You may judge from the little that you know, but I know quite alot about the people and religion I have talked about. Enough said. Bye bye.

Thorum,
A couple of things
1) I didn't mean to say you saw Obsession, just that you've clearly been influenced and share the ideology of those who support it
2) I'm not Muslim, if that's what you meant by "Until you and others come out of the Dark Ages and break the shackles of mythology, supernatural beings, miracles and ancient books men have written about gods," I'm actually Roman Catholic. I've been in Catholic schools my entire life, including my college life, I've read the Bible, and I go to Mass every Sunday and I can tell you this: You will be able to find similar passages in the Bible, intolerant people in Christianity, and plenty of bloody, powerthirsty warlords in the history of Christianity, as with any religion, because religion is interpreted and expressed by humans, and humans are imperfect...and many humans are downright crazy, and others evil, but hopefully many more choose to embrace good.
3) I am proud to say I've had the privilege of studying Islam and its teachings at a very prominent American University and not at IhateIslam.com, which is where you most likely got all of your information. Moreover, I'm happy to say I have many friends who are very devout Muslims, and haven't tried to "conquer me"
4) I think what you fail to understand, or perhaps what no one has pointed out to you, or you haven't had the chance to see for yourself is that the overwhelming majority of Muslims don't condone these terrible acts of terrorism.
5) What I can deduce from your posts or you from mine is a perfect example of how prone we are to categorize people according to their beliefs.
Perhaps you are a wonderful human being, a great parent, a responsible employee. Perhaps you go out of your way to help others, I don't know who you are or what kind of person you are, or the circumstances that surround you that make you think what you think; but what I know of you through a couple of posts can shape my perception of you...and this is what is happening in the world. We judge (from all sides), from the little that we know, without having a clue about the reality of the people we are judging.

Dear Mark 25,
Clearly you are ignorant of Islam and its teachings. The Koran written by a power-hungry bloodthirsty and violent desert warlord is rife with passages of hate towards non-believers: "seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks." 4:89 AND "…Then fight and slay the Pagans wherever you find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war…9:5". Too many more passages to list here. So, followers of the Koran and Mohammad are the ones that are violent. Until you and others come out of the Dark Ages and break the shackles of mythology, supernatural beings, miracles and ancient books men have written about gods, there will always be intolerance and hate in this world. Never saw "Obsession" so not sure what you are talking about. Lastly, no need to look at America for liberty under attack, as I said before, daily headlines around the world speak for themselves. Islam is violent and continues its war of conquest begun by Mohammad hundreds of years ago and hasn't ended yet. "He who fights that Islam should be superior fights in Allah's cause", spoken by Mohammad.

Dear Thorum,
Clearly you are a victim of those who concocted Obsession and are ignorant of Islam and its teachings... it is a way of life that embraces Peace and is dedicated to the Love of God. There are crazy/violent people in all religions who interpret religion their own way, however they are do not necessarily represent what the religion stands for...If you want to talk about liberty under attack, I suggest you take a closer look at America's military history and the wars it has waged around the globe. This is not to say America, let alone any country, deserves to be the object of hatred and attack. I agree with Ms Khan, we can change the world... our greatest foe in this endevour is ignorance and lack of tolerance, and our greatest asset is our power to see through the veils of cultural, religious, and ideological diversity and find humanity...

Frankly, all we can say is dhimmitude and the relentless encroachment of Islamization continues in America. Your comment "I am acutely aware that we continue to face situations that threaten the strong American ethos of liberty and respect for all" is true. Muslims continue daily violent attacks through the world seeking to impose Islam on non-believers. So, yes, you are right. Our liberty and respect for all is under attack. Unfortunately, Islam is the most intolerant, dogmatic ideology yet seen on this earth. Pick any newspaper from India to Malaysia to Russia to Australia and you can find a story to prove my argument. Here is a story from today in America: "CHICAGO (AP) — A 24-year-old convert to Islam has been sentenced to 35 years in prison for plotting to set off hand grenades in a crowded shopping mall during the Christmas season." Lastly, you say "It is my conviction that if we change this story, we will begin to change the world". Don't worry, Islam already has.