With or Without Pope Benedict, Muslim-Catholic Dialogue Continues

Here's the plan:

We can implement Islamic law as the law of the land. Anything Islam has left out that is found in the Bible can be implemented too. Then all that is left to do is get Utah to agree which may require even more laws to make sure no one violates Mormon rules.

To insure everyone complies closed circuit TV will be installed everywhere with lines from the bedroom going directly to the Vatican.

It will be a perfect world. Don't you think?

If one is to fault the Pope, one should point out that his comments in his recent University of Regensburg speech did not go far enough. The Pope’s speech made the legitimate argument that no religion should use violence to propagate the faith and that anyone who uses force to spread faith is wrong, whether Christian or Muslim.

However, the Pope did not touch on deeper historical and moral issues. Primia facia, Christianity’s founding provides the groundwork for a non-violent faith, where as Mohammed’s actions, if justified, lend credibility to the use of violence, war, and terrorism to spread Islam. If this first appearance is not the case, it is incumbent on Muslim leaders to explain why the example of Mohammed no longer holds as a valid guide in the modern world.

The valid question to ask is whether Islam’s foundation is compatible with peaceful coexistence with other faiths. Many faiths, including Islam, Christianity, and Buddhism, have blood on their collective hands. However, there is a difference between the founding of Christianity and Islam. A man who taught a message of non-violence and was indeed persecuted by the state founded Christianity. Later Christians resorted to violence, but one can reasonably argue that they did so in spite of, not because of, the direct example of Jesus. Mohammed used military force to conquer and convert non-Muslims, and Mohammed’s example is used as a force of authority in Islam.

It is not enough to say that many Muslims live peacefully with men of other faiths. Many, many Muslims do not, and from an outside understanding of their religion’s early history, they appear to be the ones living in accordance with the example of the Prophet. If Mohammed’s use of force was legitimate then, the burden is in Islamic leadership to explain to us why such force is no longer legitimate.

LOL how did i graduate the secret course when i dont even know what it is?

you're a hoot, lib.

Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,

Actually all governments should require a course on religions where the flaws and errors of said religions are reviewed and repeated for students to offset the millennia of bible and koran thumping by the respective religions.

(Victoria, it has also been brought to our attention that you have successfully finished the Five Step Program for Deflawing Islam and you are a secret member of the New Reality. Good job!!! )

A starting point for the global Religion 101 (also recommended for B16 and all new members of the On Faith blog):

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a mythical character as was Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.
simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man suffered from hallucinations, and has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

3. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

4. Mohammed, an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds these acts of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."
The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."
"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

homosapiens- google the amman message-

i'd link it but they are not getting through.

interesting that you should bring turks in germany up- the government of germany has proposed teaching a course on islam in their public schools, and has asked sveral muslim groups to submit a cohesive consensus and theme to be introduced into the curriculum.

also google the aforementioned 138 scholars letter to pope-

i have tried for the past 4 days to post that info- but every submission has been held for approval-

dont worry about concerned the christian- his posts are well known here- and always the same-

were used to him, and generally try to repay his ideas with patince and kindness.

peace

ps- the compassion and concern you showed toward ms khan is noted and appreciated

Take heart, Ms Khan. Not everyone who reads your posts is driven by hate and/or a perverted need to show off. Some of your commenters could use some humility, though; they have so much to be humble about.

I agree with what you wrote about the pope's public conversion of the disenchanted Muslim. Ratzinger seems to have the same misguided paternalistic tendencies as so many Germans who are more than willing to accept Muslim Turks in their midst - as long as they (the Turks) accept the German Leitkultur (including nominal Christianity) and become good little Germans.

Despite the popularity John Paul II achieved, the saintly pope of our times was John XXIII, a simple man of God who convened Vatican II and largely outmaneuvered the whole Catholic establishment.

Isn't there some kind of council or office that can speak for mainstream moderate Muslims worldwide? Individual moderates seem to be afraid to speak up for fear of reprisals or being labeled as puppets of the West.

Daisy,

The pope and his Muslim friends need to do just one thing, come to grips with the flaws in both their religions. Once again for your perusal:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a mythical character as was Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT. simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

3. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

4. Mohammed, an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds these acts of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.