Transforming Celebrity Apologies

It's a very interesting idea, especially since there is so many stars practicing this "pilgrimage" which in my opinion is but a different way to promote "starship" rather than any type of repentance or apology.
Madonna goes to Africa to adopt, so many other celebrities like Oprah, the American idol producers, Angelina Jolie...and I don't know so many others, they are all taking their own "celebrity pilgrimage". Who do they trust? Themselves, the power of their money.
Don't get me wrong, what they're doing is amazing, it's service to humanity, but from a Christian point of view - it's mere charity which they seem to do to feel good about themselves, and of course it helps others too. And it’s great for America to see some stars who put their money in good use.
It's great that in these charitable pilgrimages there are also people who really believe in God, and God does get His praise, but what is being advertised, is really this star power.
As for this other kind of pilgrimage, the Paolo Coelho style, well, that doesn't fall far from what the celebrities are doing. Both have in center the search for humanity, not for God.
It's amazing how I am reminded now of what Christ said to His disciples: "Pray in secret, do good in secret...when you give with your right hand, don't let your left hand know that you gave...and the Heavenly Father will reward you in public.”

In short, everyone can have an inner pilgrimage in Spain, Africa, Greece...anywhere, but whether it will take them to God or to themselves that's a different story.

Interesting to read all the Christians' pov's on forgiveness. My wife just published "Forgiveness~The Divine Connection," a spiritual take on the true meaning of the process, which has nothing to do with condoning bad acts or intentions, and everything to do with the place of the human soul in the universe.

One quote from the press release sums up the entire concept: "Through forgiveness, all things are not only possible, but inevitable."

All of us sitting in judgment might do well really to contemplate Dickey's inspired lesson, really to "make a voyage of self-discovery, not [necessarily] requiring movement across the map."

And anyway couldn't we all do with less of the glib holier-than-thou attitudes and more of getting in touch with our responsibility to humanity?

Okay Dickey,

I think I may be getting this. Don Imus needs to take a pilgrimage.

May I suggest he take off that ridiculous cowboy hat and visit a Chadian refugee camp in West Darfur. Maybe he can spend a few days considering security, sanitation and clean water needs.

As he has used his public persona to denigrate black women, maybe he can listen to the stories told there and use that big mouth of his to help the women who are struggling to survive there.

Granting Absolution to Imus (etc)

The question of granting forgiveness is one for those who were harmed (since there is no God).

In Imus's case, the Rutgers Basketball team, black people, and women.

I.e., not me.

I am free to have an opinion about it.

I think if I were a member of the Rutgers Basketball team, I would accept Imus's apology, but I would be skeptical that he
1. would have apologized at all were it not for the public outcry. after all, "i was just joking."
2. would have changed his long history of racist and sexist remarks if he had not got into trouble and had stayed on the air.

The core of the moral situation is that Imus hurt other people, and his moral obligation is to be aware he did, be sincerely sorry, make reparations, and not do it again.

His practice of using sexism and racism to make money from his radio show came into conflict with American Express's belief that they would lose money by continuing to be associated with racism and sexism.

Money was the operant morality here.

Not that Don Imus is not a good person.

I agree that all the people should apologize, except maybe for Haggard. The guy just needs to realize he likes boys and live his life. Being "cured" my big bahoochey. the guy likes playing the meat flute and should be proud of it, not hide it like a coward.

At lease Haggard, Imus and Richards apologized. Thats more than we can say will ever come out of the mouths of Wolofowitz, Gonzales, Cheney, Bush, Rove et. al. Two ex bosses, both very Catholic, told me to never apologize. They said it was a sign of weakness and I would loose face.

There is a difference between apolgizing for an error or something you feel truly sorry for and apolgizing when you get busted. When people are busted, some apologize hoping to get off the hook. Others never apologize continuing to lie about what they got caught for.

Tvilberg
Nobody here is in a position to offer or deny absolution to Imus, Nifong or any other public figure. What happened was that the establishment that had supported their abuses suddenly found them no longer useful.

When it appears that the celebrities are making insincere apologies that most of us can see and feel it, we realize that those apologies are just empty attempts to save face and their jobs.(Although non of us can really know whats in anothers heart) The acceptance and forgiveness really lies in the hands of the person or people that were/are victims of the transgression. The perpetrator is the one that has to live with themselves in the knowlege of whether or not they were sincere.

I don't think a pilgrimage is necessary to know that an apology needs to be sincere to be taken seriously. Hopefully, their transgressions will bring them back down off of their pedestals that we as the *fans* put them up on. They are human like the rest of us and will make mistakes like the rest of us. Yes, because they are in the public light they should be more careful about what they say and do. To me, though, it pretty much shows the true side of them. And isn't it better to know who a person really is? And not continue to be the person we would like them to be?

I recently said a very stupid thing at work. And immediately after it flew out of my mouth, I knew it was a mistake to say and I felt extremely bad about myself and took a very hard look inwardly. I also went to each person that was involved and apologized. I told them that I realized how ignorant and stupid it was for me to say that and I was very sorry. Each of them were very kind and just laughed and said it was no big deal. Everyone has treated me the same that they always have before. So I knew they accepted my apology. Perhaps it helped that they have worked with me for at least the last 10 years and knew that that was not something I would say or do normally. So I was forgiven.

I still am looking inward to try and understand why I said what I did. I may never figure out the answer or perhaps the answer that makes me feel comfortable with. But I truly was sorry and I was happy to see that they were understanding of it.
I truly believe that for an apology to be accepted and the person forgiven, it has to be sincere. Its as simple as that. The penance is living with yourself after the fact.

Most of the people on this message board seem to be somewhat off the track. This is about forgiveness and what it entails in the forgivee as far as actions and behavior. The original point is that very little forgiveness actually occurs towards the people who offend whole populations, but rather forgetfulness as something else comes along to attract attention. The forgivee often never actually apologizes, but rather comes up with an excuse or something to deflect attention. Having been married to an Irish Catholic for 10 years, I am well qualified to comment on some people's warped sense of what is necessary for forgiveness.

If you want to be forgiven, you need to first feel that you have done wrong and try to make amends for what you have done. This is a basic requirement and just going to confession and saying a bunch of Hail Mary's is not sufficient, especially when you have absolutely no intention of reforming. That kind of "forgiveness" is empty and only serves the purpose of enabling someone to continue in wrongness by removing any feelings of guilt. Like a woman I know at the gym says, it's ok to cheat on your husband as long as you go to confession. Then your page is wiped clean and you can do it again.

After having apologized and tried to make amends, it is then necessary to change behavior. It doesn't do much good to be constantly apologizing for the same thing over and over. You don't get forgiven for that kind of thing. As a wise man once said, "Forgive I can do, but to forget is to ask me to negate experience." Once you have been forgiven, you still do not ever get the chance to be where you were before because people remember what you have done and know what you are like.

As for Don Imus, it seems to me that the primary issue was between Imus and the woman's basketball team at Rutgers University. Since they forgave Imus, what moral authority do any of us have to deny absolution?

An apology with an act of atonement is meaningless and self/serving. When a public figure, especially an official, apologizes they should be expected the specify the sacrifices they will make for the damage their error(s) have caused other people.

AJAZ, "this war" is not going away like Viet Nam. To win it the enemy's God must be defeated, (Viet Nam gang came complete without God). That means we either lose, become a Muslim nation or the Jew God gets shot too. Same God as Christians?

http://www.hoax-buster.org All three great faiths are products of a hoax.

Guilty by trial of public opinion is what this question is all about. At this forum we have debated the apology, or lack thereof by his holiness the pope. Whether those convicted are actually guilty or not, Iamus, the pope, the long list of apoligizers is not the question.

What are they guilty of? The overwhelming answer is, poor public presence on a temporary basis. The pope quoted from an old document and therefore endorsed it. One commenter here said the pope needs a better speach writer. In this case and I think all mentioned, forgetting it is really the only solution for the problem is born of political spinners who jump on ever word spoken, act committed and make whatever negative press they can out of it.

The truth is an orphan drowning in the spin. This probably has something to do with an expectation of absolutes in a world void in absolutes. That's what faith is all about, the creation of absolutes where none are possible. No big surprise.

Good-Bye Mr. Wolfowitz
Now that Members of European Parliament (MEPs) have vote 332-251 asking Mr. Wolfowitz to resign, it will be hard for him to stay at his job, so his resignation should be imminent.

In my view giving his girl friend a huge pay raise is favortism and not a crime. But what Mr. Wolfowitz will not be able to get away from is that he is the main architect of Iraq war, he tried to push it on President Bush Sr. but without success. Eight years later a new and inexperienced President Bush became the new tenant in the White House and this time Mr. Wofowitz was able to not only push the Iraq war on him but also leave it in his lap while he himself pursued greener pastures elsewhere.

Media reports suggest that Mr. Wolfowitz carries US & Israeli passports, only history will judge as to whose interests he was serving in pushing this war? One thing is certain that his disastrous policy is responsible for the killing of 3,000 US soldiers and injuring and maiming another 25,000, death of over 100,000 innocent Iraqis and the complete destruction of Iraq.

It remains to be seen if (along with others), history will judge him as a war criminal!

I am sure that Catholics with a devotion to
Mary do not regard themselves as idoloters. How about a better choiuce of words? I would think that after 60 years of Catholic-Protestant ecumenism we would be beyond that kind of slander.

So if Bush, Gonzales and Wolfowitz say they are sorry for getting caught how many of us do you think will forgive them and how many of us will burst out laughing?

Is there not something odd about the pagan harvest god believing in God?

I think Wolfowitz could convince us that he is sorry for his corruption by resigning. It is too much to hope that Rush Limbaugh and Ted Haggard would disappear forever. If they would do so, I could be convinced to believe in God.

The article about pilgrimages published in Newsweek International may make the argument a little clearer:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18247490/site/newsweek/

What I think he's getting at is the idea of real spiritual change, a change of heart if you will. Anyone who has read the comments and columns that were written in defense of Imus has seen that we are dealing with something more pervasive than the lame comment and lamer apology of one highly-paid idiot. I didn't hear what Imus said, but I was outraged by some of the things said in his defense. Likewise the rush to judgment by the campus community at Duke.

Madawat,

He said:

"There are different ways to make such a voyage.. not all of them requiring movement across the map."

He is speaking of the journey from apology to repentance to reconciliation.

Mr. Dickey,

I'm sure you are a nice guy, but that was one of the strangest and most off-topic posts I've seen here.

You begin by listing some celebrities that have apologized recently (so far, so good...), then you told us that there will be more (ok...), and then went into a unrelated rant about how celebrities are out of touch with reality (yeah, we knew that, what does that have to do with apologizing?), how they would benefit from travelling to far off places (um, do you realize that celebrities travel all the time?), and then you ended by saying you were inspired by the credulity of Catholic pilgrims to a place you were visiting in France (Houston, we've lost you).

Understanding how your post had anything to do with the topic will be a challenging exercise in heuristics.