The Bible Is Needed for a Complete Education

Scaeff, actually our rights come from the Constitution where men knew to keep religion separate and they were men of the Enlightenment Era by reading Deism, John Locke and Voltaire.

I'm a Christian. I did not read most of the Old Testiment to my young kids. Something a little PG-13 and Restricted about some of that ethic cleansing, ritualistic murder, rape, and pillage, and then the Song of Songs....pretty racy for elementary school kids, as well as David's and others adultry, etc. So, the cirriculum would include how "christians" throughout history have used various Bible interpretations to justify all kinds of atrocities, including slavery in the good ol' USA. Would Chuck Colson think it appropriate to teach kids that our founding father's used the Bible to justify owning slaves, or to justify holding women in second class status without property rights and voting rights? Sure, the wonderful rights given our citizens and the just laws protecting our citizens do stem from Judeo-Christian values, and still apply today. But a balanced cirriculum would incude the bad with the good.

Rubytues63;

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

Thomas Jefferson. in a letter to John Adams. April 11,1823.
Quoted in "Atheist Universe" by David Mills. Ulysses Press. 2006

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition, Christianity, one redeeming feature.
They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies."

Thomas Jefferson. in a letter to Dr Woods.
Quoted in "Atheist Universe" by David Mills

"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation, and the human origin of the scriptures,
have become clearer and stronger with advancing years, and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them."

Abraham Lincoln

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible . Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."

Benjamin Franklin. 1706-1790. Quoted in Atheist Universe, by D.Mills, Ulysses Press

from Justbeingrealistic --
" Our heritage as Americans is that of Christians fleeing the monarchic European catholic rule that was persecuting them, to establish a free nation based on the basic merits of biblical christian teaching. "

Maybe YOUR ancestors did this; MY Native American ancestors were slaughtered by Catholics and Protestants in the name of poor old Jesus.

There only revenge now is taking all your money when you go worship at their casinos.

The WHOLE Bible, Chuck, including Leviticus 19:33, or just the parts you cherry-pick to advance your hateful right-wing agenda?

Justbeingrealistic,

If you are just being realistic, and you have a eyes open understanding of our history, you would recognize that there are innumerable reasons to have a distrust, in the least, if not hatred of, religions. Particularly the majority religions that imported themselves from Europe and proceeded to perform on others the very same persecutions that they sought to run from in their exodus from the Old World.

Your Protestant Christians certainly have played and important role in the shaping of the American landscape, but not always in a benevolent way, by any means. Further, I echo Destinysmom in noting your bias and prejudice. Of the Christian influence in America the Catholic aspect is no small dynamic though you bend your comments toward that inference.

There is nothing noted in the enshrinement of freedom of religion that excludes non-Christian forms. There is no Christian forms that are uplifted above others of like origin. Yet, every Christian religious form is rife with that degradation of philosophy from within it's own ranks. It is rank. Spiritual elitism and exclusivity is not only dark and an evil to the practitioners of that degradation, but is an evil in society. Protestants have their share of guilt in the practice of prejudice.

We are formed at foundation as a country unaligned with 'official' religious doctrine, yet fundamentalists cannot abide that separation, as they cannot abide the concept that their own belief system may be anything but completely and solely valid. How immature. How childlike. What is completely true that the human mind grasps or conceives?

One thing you say I agree completely with. "Subjective morality is a crippling thing." Exclusivity of religions proves that out to a t. And on that t is crucified.

"Navin1" appears to another infectious probability wave. Be cautious when reading any comments from this person.

from Justbeingrealistic --
" Our heritage as Americans is that of Christians fleeing the monarchic European catholic rule that was persecuting them, to establish a free nation based on the basic merits of biblical christian teaching. "

Maybe YOUR ancestors did this; MY Irish ancestors were Catholics fleeing a PROTESTANT rule that was persecuting them and, once here, fought long and hard to keep school systems such as the one in early 19th century Philadelphia from furthering that indoctrination and persecution. Other Catholics in the 17th century left England to found Maryland. Roger Williams founded Rhode Island as a haven for all, regardless of religion.

I am not about to leave an incredibly long dissertation to prove or disprove myself and others but i will say this: there is a uniform hatred of religion in the subsequent generations, specifically that of Christianity; Our heritage as Americans is that of Christians fleeing the monarchic European catholic rule that was persecuting them, to establish a free nation based on the basic merits of biblical christian teaching. Our very freedoms and rights are established by the acknowledgment of a higher authority that has endowed us with rights no person or government should infringe upon. You are free to believe or disbelieve, but to ignore the important role that protestant Christianity has played in the shaping of this nation and our society seems to be theophobic. Subjective morality is a crippling thing.

“I have always said that a studious perusal of the sacred volume [the Bible] will make better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands.”

--- Thomas Jefferson.

"I am profitably engaged in reading the Bible. Take all of this Book that you can by reason and the balance by faith, and you will live and die a better man."

---Abraham Lincoln

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow, and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen."

--- John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, 25 December 1813

An interesting construct: a complete education.

As to my own religious education, I have aggressively sought to find and read every scripture that I can find. It seems to me, the only scripture that is really different is the Bhagvad Gita as only it addresses the central issue of a good life. Read it and see. The Tao Te Ching is also extremely revolutionary. The book of Mormon is a me too book, the new testament is propaganda, the Koran is tribalism to the extreme, the Torah fits well with the mythological character of the time, The Book of The Hopi is remarkable. The Aman Cara and Dhampada are sweet jewels. etc.

But I don't have the presupposition that my education is completed. There are so many things in the world worth knowing that I just don't have the time to know.

So the lofty words, complete education, is simply a smoke screen for what mono-ideologists want to teach (indoctrination).

hariaum

The Bible Literacy Project textbook is a piece of flummery unsuitable for public school use. The book does not even list its authors but only the two right-wing evangelicals who published it, one of them linked to Colson, the former Nixon aide and convicted Watergater who has made a business of religion. Further, there are no suitable textbooks about religion for public school use on the market (other than a massive Oxford University Press set of books far to long for use), there are no certified teachers to teach about religion, and it is doubtful that the average public school could teach about religion in a proper, constitutional way. Moreover, most educators recognize that teaching about religion is a no-win game that can only stir up trouble and don't know how to cram a suitable course into an already crowded and inadequate curriculum. Parents who want their children to learn about religion will find no shortage of houses of worship to help them, though I rather think the best places for children to learn objectively about religion would be at a Unitarian church or Humanistic Jewish congregation. -- Edd Doerr, President, Americans for Religious Liberty, www.arlinc.org

From Fabrisse
"I think selected stories from the King James Bible should be taught in literature courses."

Why that version? Just because it's flowing literature? What about those of us who would prefer our children use Douay-Rheims? Just as "beautiful".

Or because it's the "right" version?

See, you can't even get Christians to agree on what to teach; how do you expect the myriad other religions to fall in line?

The fact that the Bible has been a central foundation in Western civilizations is a given. For better or for worse, belief in Biblical wisdom has been deeply intertwined in shaping the Western perspective and perception, as was Classical Greek and Roman thought and belief before the advent of Christian. Of course much of "the Bible" is Old Testament storytelling and so is contemporary of the Classics. On that level, at least as a westerner seeking awareness of one's own history, knowledge of the Bible makes much sense.

Mr. Colson begins with: "Is it possible to be an educated person without knowing about the Bible? In short, I don't think so." That should be obvious to any thinking person. But then one would have to be an idiot and deeply uneducated to have no "knowing" of the Bible.

This is a long shot from teaching the Bible as a requisite study in academic curriculum, though. There is a large chasm between having knowledge of a thing and being indoctrinated into that belief system. We are taught some of the classics is schools, but we are not indoctrinated into those belief systems.

Further, it seems the more one is educated the more one looks at the Bible, and virtually any of the other Sacred Texts of the worlds religions, for what they are. Mythology and storytelling that have great value as moral and metaphoric archetypes, but not as the literal Word of God that vested adherents proclaim them to be.

There is no doubt that interests that are pushing for the inclusion of the study of the Bible are more of the many elitists that believe their religious faith is the singular valid one. Christianity as a whole is rife with this exclusivity, and their past and continuing prejudices toward that belief, and against the contradictory belief s of followers of other faiths, is really all one needs to be aware of to resist the inclusion of religious education in public schools and universities.

Religions, virtually all of them, have proven to be the most destructive beliefs and institutions the world knows. Next to the current incarnation of radical Islam, Christianity stands among the most guilty of this destructiveness.

Religions should work hard to stay true to their higher aspirations and resist falling into their unspoken darkness. They should stay altogether out of the public institutions, and out of government. Religious brains, enamoured of their certitudes of heaven and hell and emboldened by the power of public office or mantle, cannot but be a corrupted force. There are multitudes of examples.

I think selected stories from the King James Bible should be taught in literature courses. Western art, English and American literature, even certain mathematical and scientific quests become clearer with knowledge of the stories.

However, I think we would all be more educated if certain stories from the Koran, the Talmud, the Mahabharata, the Upanishads, etc. were also taught so we could understand the roots of other arts, literatures, and even mathematical and scientific quests.

"every professor surveyed"

Yeah right.... If Mr. Colson had said "every carefully preselected professor surveyed..." maybe his study would at believable...

Are you ready for them to teach Taoism or Islam or Hinduism as well Chucky?

Also... WHICH bible are they supposed to teach. Even the most ancient available texts are translations or copies of earlier texts. We have NO originals! The bible(s) that people read today are all translations or transliterations so every word in them is highly suspect!

I know many intelligent, well-educated, ethical people who have never read a Bible, and who couldn't quote a single verse of it if their lives depended on it.

kert, Locke(Locke rejected the Trinity and Original Sin, but held to many Christians beliefs. He knew the Deists, and was influenced by the Polish Unitarians on social issues. Keep in mind the Age of Reason is separate from the later radical French Enlightenment
) was a xian in the same sense jefferson was a xian, maybe, a rational theist and your choice to not counter my points is appreciated because I wish for kids to also see my side of these issues.

When I studied religion in public school, two months were given over to a "major religions" section of world history. It provided a background on the eight "major religions" in both a historical and factual context, describing the evolution of each, the belief systems, and discussing relevant texts. I think it provided an invaluable exposure to various cultures, including our own Western ideals, and gave me some perspective upon which to base religious references and discussions afterwards.

This theoretically unbiased study, while certainly dependent on the curriculum and teacher, should be provided as an educational opportunity for every student at an age where they can absorb and process the material in a mature fashion. In the end though, no effort should ever be made to establish the validity of any individual religion as the correct one for students in a public school.

Kert1 said "The troubles kids face today are much more than they used to. Religions properly teached has good results on kids, so lets allow this."

I think this illustrates wonderfully what happens when we teach religion at the expense of basic grammar and tense.

So how are you presenting religion? Is it to be taught alongside of Greek mythology or will it be creationism in disguise?

And how will educators decide what else to teach? Will they require commensurate teachings on the Koran? Will Scientology be given equal time?

It seems to me that since every religious principle is really an interpretation of what someone thinks a given text means, any class based on the bible should be given no more credence than poetry -- everyone's interpretation is fine.

TXatheist,
Well Locke was a Christian as well, and his beliefs and writings did have great influence on our founders. I think this generally supports my point.

The rest of the comments don't really require any comment. I think I covered most of that in my first section.

Wow, millions of Japanese people prove you wrong. Liar, the foundational text is the Constitution which was influenced more by Locke than the bible. The pivotal role xianity played was the FF were aware of the Inquisition and Crusades and thus created the 1 amendment with the separation of church and state in mind. AND FOR KERT. The bible is stories and myths beyond a few tribes/cities. Most of the bible is not history and has not been verified but you failed to show an example. Your Greek mythology class should have included the New Testament. Our Creator according to the Deists was the First Cause. The FF were unaware of the big bang and evolution so excuse them for crediting a creator. No, religion(xian) causes cognitive dissonance and ideas that directly contradict science so they are stupider. md457@hotmail.com

I'd have to say that including the Bible in public education is long overdue. Whether you believe it or not, you need to understand it and why people believe it as the word of God. You run into people who think the Bible is just storis and myths. They don't understand that much can be verified by history.

When I was in High School we were forced to spend a quarter studying Greek and Roman Mythology, and throughtout my 4 years we were forced to read at least 4 Shakespeare books. My exposure to the Bible was a couple pages in my British Lit book taken from the King James Bible, which we covered in less than a day. Now I believe that all these things are important for an educated person to study, but something seems wrong. Why should we putting so much ephasis on a defunct religious system and a great author. Neither of these were essential to the forming of Western Civilization or our Country.

For a long time people have been removing any reference to religion they could and ignoring the parts they couldn't remove, like our founding documents or our laws. Did anyone ever discuss who this Creator was that the founders say we owe all our freedoms to. Seems kind of important to me. I don't think you can understand anything else well until you understand this, but it is largely ignored.

I would also say that we could also include other religions in our teaching here. I don't understand how we can say we educate young people and they know nothing about most religions. Now we have to be careful not to try to be too inclusive since there are thousands of religions and the purpose isn't giving everyone equal time. But all students should understand the basic's of predominate faiths of our country or their region.

We could also allow elective classes that discuss religion in depth. I don't understand why schools prevent kids from learning about their own faith's. It makes much sense to encourage kids of a faith to learn more about it. This would also help attract many students that otherwise would go to private or home school.

I think most would agree that keeping religion out of our schools hasn't really worked. The troubles kids face today are much more than they used to. Religions properly teached has good results on kids, so lets allow this. I'm sure we can find a way to do this, while allowing for freedom as well.