No Choice But To Separate from Apostasy

hi chuck, i sincerely admire your choice to start a prison ministry after having paid your debt to society about the nixon thing. trying to make some useful and good out of a sad situatiion is how i myself try to handl lifes traumas and tragedies and my indescretions .. my favorite bilblical charictars art david and paul... they like you and myself are far from perfect but we unlike mr. nixon and some other people actually admitted fault or wrong doing. whith out first admiting there is a problem there can be no forgiveness nor correction made to keep innocent people from in the present or future to have to pay the price for those who are not honest or ethical even those that mean well they may be the worst of all because they keep harming the innocent. . we see this in life everywhere. i pray for who ever on the about faith conversation has once again chosen to censor and silence my voice and my words wfhich are garenteed by the constitution of the the united states of america. i am an educated know artist. when people censor my words they become law breakers. my words were not any different from the words i normally post and did include personal anecdotes which oter people use to illistrate thier points. i'm sure the good people who would silence somebodeelses right to speak or even in america to be wrong in public if they them selve chose to. but in this case my fact are and were inrefuteable. please tell the criminals at t the avbout faith conversation if they violate the laws of the united states constitution on free speech they,... are crinminals and law breakers just like people who rob banks or try to subvert government likne dick nixon did. i prayed for him also like the misguided crimjinals who would be kings of the media.. merry christmas i hope your family is well i figure you would wish the same for me .. you seem like a nice man and like i said in my post that was not posted you and eboo patel and mr ghandi are some of my favorites keith

PERSPECTIVE1

You wrote concerning " the proper way of observing Christmas so as to avoid apostasy?"

First off, I looked up the word apostasy and it said apostasy "is the formal religious disaffiliation or abandonment or renunciation of one's religion".

Then when I looked at what Charles Colson said, "But orthodoxy and apostasy cannot co-exist. Regrettably, I believe Christians have no choice but to separate from an increasingly apostate denomination.".

If the definition that I looked up is correct, then the statement that Mr. Colson wrote makes no sense at all, since apostasy does not come in degrees or increments but is total.

I, personally, do not agree with the definition considering that I do not think of Christianity as a religion but a relationship.

As far as what you asked, people should observe Christmas however they wish to observe it.

Just as Jesus said, "Tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the Kingdom ahead of you" in referring to some of the "religious" of His day.

Some who do not even believe in God are entering the Kingdom ahead of some that do believe in God considering that God is a searcher of hearts and minds not of religious affiliations or lack therof.

Notice that Jesus said "ahead of you" not that they were entering and some of the "religious" weren't, interesting, don't you think?

Jesus's Message was and is so simple but we try to complicate it. Jesus did say, "I give you a new command, Love one another as I have loved you".

Another thing that Jesus said, "When the son of man comes will he find faith", I suppose that is, as opposed to: religion, spirituality, rules and regulations, dogma ..., sometimes one or more of these or other things can get in the way of God.

As I have said before, it is important what one does and why one does it and what one knows.

I don't know if this answers your question, but I would like to add: God cares and so should we.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Since two have questioned the matter of having standards, would either Robert_B1 or
ThomasBaum be willing to offer their views on the proper way of observing Christmas so
as to avoid apostasy?

According to the US Biblical scholar, Morton Smith, of Columbia University, a fragment of manuscript he found at the Mar Saba monastery near Jerusalem in 1958, showed that the full text of St. Mark chapter 10 (between verses 34 and 35 in the standard version of the Bible) includes the passage:

"And the youth, looking upon him (Jesus), loved him and beseeched that he might remain with him. And going out of the tomb, they went into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days, Jesus instructed him and, at evening, the youth came to him wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God".

Thomas Baum --

Thanks for addressing Perspective1's point far better than I could. :)

Also, we should keep in mind that Seneca was Nero's tutor. Apparently, what wisdom Seneca had was not easily transmittable

PERSPECTIVE1

You wrote, "Any claims of “Revealed Religion” should remind us of this quote attributed to Seneca: “Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.”

In this quote, who determines that the wise are wise, could it be those that consider themselves wise?

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Apostasy from what standard?

There are a number of periods of time that have produced identifiable standards that have
inevitably been changed. Thanks to scholarship over the past 150 years, we now have access into the differences between the “New Testament” and the life of Jesus in addition to the already known Protestant view of the differences between the “New Testament” and the “Universal Church." Examine any theological organization over a
few generations in age and what do we observe? There are simultaneous claims of “tradition” while an investigation reveals adaptations to relieve pressures created by societal changes. That a certain tradition is chosen upon which to build a reputation gives one insight into the mindset and politics of those who responsible for that decision.

Any claims of “Revealed Religion” should remind us of this quote attributed to Seneca: “Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.”

Jeez. You Christians sure have problems with an awful lot of people.

Maybe they are Heathen.

Maybe they are infidels.

Also, I think that the term "apostasy" is probably ill-used here. Since both sides are claiming to be Christian, the term "heresy" (or possibly "schism") is probably more appropriate.

Of course, Rev. Colson might just think any non-evangelical Christian isn't really Christian...

PamSm:

Nahh, he was too busy receiving a medal from President Bush to bother actually thinking too hard about this question.

I've noticed a tendency in Rev. Colson's posts; they tend to be very short and shallow. I wonder if he draws an honorarium from WaPo for these insights...

Apostasy? Next, you'll be calling people ugly and fat.

With all due respect sir, your definition of "apostate" sounds a lot like Bin-Laden's. I disagree with everything you said (which was not much).

I hope you didn't work too hard putting together this essay, Chuck.

I agree withe premise, but who holds the power to assign the term apostate? And who decides which issues can be disagreed upon and which issues demand agreement?

Predestination? Infant Baptism? Transubstantiation? Homosexuality?

Rather, would not the Nicene Creed be the proper test? I think its time the Church asks itself what makes us brothers and sisters.

sigh, so narrow minded.