Healthy Economy Requires Moral Restraint

THE FOOLPROOF BAILOUT

Unless the HOLES in the financial system are properly plugged up, this 700 billion dollar bailout will just GO TO WASTE. The reason why we are in this FINANCIAL MESS is because all those holes came into play at full throttle. Some people simply abused the weakness of the dollar for their benefit. Upon seeing the weakness of the dollar, they played up the price of oil. They can do it because as we have seen last Monday, there is no regulation that can stop them from doing so. With very high oil prices, the companies become vulnerable and weak. Here comes the SHORT SELLERS taking advantage of that weakness and betted that the stock prices of these companies would fail. As a result of stocks plunging, many companies struggled and many could have borrowed money from banks and in the process raised the interest rates. Also, profits from short selling contribute to excess liquidity and to offset this liquidity, interest rates are raised. As interest rates climbed, so does the mortgage interest rates. Many homeowners defaulted which put banks on a tough situation. Again the SHORT SELLERS saw the opportunity to profit so they came BETTING AGAINST the banks until we see all these big banks failed.

Now, we can see that there are THREE BIG SUCKING HOLES that came into play that put us into this mess. The FIRST are the SPECULATORS who played up THE PRICE OF OIL. The SECOND are SHORT SELLERS which pulled down the stock market. The resulting HOLE (third hole) which these two sucking holes created are the FORECLOSED houses which continue to burden the financial system.

The SOLUTION to this mess is simply to PLUG UP these THREE HOLES. First is to create an OIL PRICE STABILIZATION LAW which I explained in my earlier posts. Second is to PERMANENTLY BAN SHORT SELLERS. Thirdly, if they want a bailout, it should be used to relieve the homeowners by lowering their mortgage interest payments and return the foreclosed houses to its previous owners under a restructured payment scheme that's affordable. The third solution will release the banks from bad debt and can therefore continue and start clean anew.

The hedgefunds which will be affected by the ban on short selling can look for MORE PRODUCTIVE investments like the manufacturing sectors and new technologies sectors. This shift of investment would lower interest rates because manufacturers would not be crowding in the banks for loans. This will also make our manufacturing sectors competitive. As a result more jobs will be created.

This is WIN-ALL SCENARIO and to achieve this, THESE THREE HOLES MUST BE ATTENDED TO, otherwise, NO BAILOUT WILL SUCCEED.

GOD BLESS AMERICA.

FATE,

I'm interested to know what laws Republicans have been "chipping away" at in regards to this issue.

I'm guessing that you aren't referring to the 1999 banking deregulation bill, right? Considering that Joe Biden and President Clinton both voted for the final bill is something I'm sure you've selectively deleted from memory.

Thanks.

Actually, Paganplace, I'm blaming mostly people. Hardly anyone is not to blame. That was my point. I do not judge anyone personnally, but it is obvious that most people benefited from things while they were good. Now everyone will pay a big penalty. If you truly believe you didn't do anything to help create the crisis then you have my congratulations.

Unfortunately, most everyone has a 401k that benefited or voted for someone who has ties to the corruption. I just get upset when people put on the blame on the rich or on particular political party. The truth is that every group had some part to play in it. Unless there is reform from many people, the reform will be ineffective.

The truth is the biggest shortcoming of most involved is complacency. We continue to vote in politicians who are corrupt and never petition to get rid of corrupt practices. We love Wall Street when they make us money and then complain when it collapses.

We need more moral people who are willing to be brave when things are good to point out failures. Morality is all that will save us from another collapse like this.

WE DON'T NEED GAS PRICE FIXING. I would rather pay $4 (or more) a gallon with plenty of gas, then $3 and not be able to fill my tank. These things just lead to gas shortages which are much worse. Even at $3 you aren't saving that much. Better to use our own oil resources. That will bring down prices in a better way.

By the way, gas lost most of it's gains from yesterday. Let's not overreact.

I totally agree with Chuck on this. We have to be responsible with our spending. Can't afford it don't buy it.

To me spending is a moral issue just like sex. The right CHOICE is the responsible CHOICE. This nation needs to grow up and stop looking to the government as mothers milk. The government is here to protect us from harm not to legislate how we live. In our weakness we have given them too much responsibility.

I mean, seriously. You didn't want to hear a *word* I said a month ago, *now* you wanna 'share responsibility?'

Gimme a break.

" Kert:

Let me try to bring some fairness to the debate. I don't think hardly anybody can claim they weren't involved in the greed that caused this mess."

Hey, I'm 'hardly anyone' according to right-wing free-market Christian homophobes, and I assure you I have nothing to do with the greed that caused this mess.

Stop blaming 'Hardly Anyone.' We have enough problems.

THIS INSANITY MUST STOP

It is high time this INSANITY SHOULD STOP. The reason why the U.S economy is so vulnerable to Wall Street speculation is because of SHORT SELLING. The economists DO NOT REALIZE that these people are like PRINTING MONEY UNHINDERED. Earning money at the loss of others (short selling) is NOT EARNING BUT STEALING. It's the same reason why we can't print money freely because it is tantamount to stealing.

UNLESS the regulators BAN THIS SHORT SELLING IN THE STOCK MARKET, Americans will continue to SUFFER ECONOMICALLY as what is happening now. The ENEMIES of America does not need an airplane to crash to our buildings. They only need to PLAY UP THE OIL PRICE IN THE STOCK MARKET and then start BETTING ON THE OTHER STOCKS TO FAIL thru SHORT SELLING. Not only can they ruin the economy of America, but they can also make themselves rich by doing so.

NOW WHERE ARE THE BRAINS OF OUR LEADERS AND ANALYSTS ?

BAN SHORT-SELLING AND IMPLEMENT THAT OIL PRICE STABILIZATION MECHANISM NOW and all will be well again.

WE NEED THAT OIL PRICE STABILIZATION MECHANISM LAW NOW.

We have seen how the price of oil jumped 16 points in just one day for no valid reason. It's very clear that the government (both Congress and the executive branch) has NOT DONE anything to rein-in speculators. It is therefore NOT farfetched that oil would rise up again to an all time high as before.

I hope they would now legislate a bill that would rein-in the STUPIDITY of these speculators. Oil has been the lifeblood of world economy and people should not be allowed to play on this commodity. It's very clear that the speculators are not using their minds. They do not understand that they are slowly hanging themselves as the price of oil shoots up to where the economy cannot perform anymore. Their money would be deemed useless if there would be a work stoppage worldwide.

I hope Congress would make a law that would put a price cap on oil everytime speculators are playing with it. If the price of oil today (Monday) is 120 dollars per barrel, the price cap tomorrow (Tuesday) should be 120 dollars per barrel. Since it cannot go up that price, there would be massive panic selling which would pull down it's price. If the price of oil closes at 110 dollars tomorrow (Tuesday), the price cap should be set at 110 dollars per barrel on Wednesday. There is no way to go for the price of oil but DOWN if this mechanism would be put into place. Once the oil price reaches a SANE LEVEL of maybe about 90 dollars, regulators can then SWITCH-OFF that mechanism so it can settle to it's true value. There must be a body that can switch that mechanism on or off as the need requires.

We NEED THAT MECHANISM NOW AND CONGRESS SHOULD ACT NOW BEFORE THESE IDIOTIC SPECULATORS WOULD HAMMER THE ECONOMY AGAIN.

Chuck Colson....

The lone "voice" of sanity. Few words, yet powerful and straight to the point!

Common sense always trumps insanity. If you cannot afford it, you wait until you can. Keeping up with the Jones' has always proven to be a an moral failing of so many people, even those who are not Christians. Keeping up with Hollyweird and the Main Stream Media is like riding a bicycle along side a fast moving train thinking you can beat the train to the next stop.

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"WE are US!"

I find it interesting that "Christian" Republicans have decried socialism all these years and promised the burning fire of hell to wrongdoers.

Now we have the Federal government nationalizing AIG and socializing the fat cats' losses. It this not socialism?

Now we have fat cats and CEO's going free with millions of dollars. Is there no neochristian Republican hell for them?

What is so glaringly lame about the "religious" and "patriotic" is their "do as I say and not as I do" hypocrisy.

No more years.

NIck renesis wrote: "While this may not sit well with the politically correct crowd, the people who obtained loans by providing false information or who were too stupid to understand what they were signing on to, shame on them."

Maybe so, but you can say the same about those who borrow from loan sharks. But we have laws against loan sharking. What if the republicans decided loan sharking should be legal, or just slowly started chipping away at the laws on the books and republican govenors started ordering less policing of loan sharking? We can always call the clients stupid, but that does not release the people who provided the loans of responsibility nor release those in government who did not protect those stupid citizens, many of whom were both desperate and encouraged to make the wrong decision.

Government is suppose to look after those in dire straits and protect them from those who prey on such people. Instead, republicans in government not only failed to protect people, they encouraged the bad behavior of lenders. And I just have to laugh at those republicans who were part of this mess now saying they are the ones to fix it. Reminds me of an auto mechanic who was supposed to replace a cam in my car. He did so but he did it so bad the car sounded like it would explode (he didn't set the timing right and left out a part). He said he could fix it. I took it somewhere else. America needs to take its votes somewhere else and get good governing, from people who do not consider government to the "The Problem".

The way any society maintains "moral restraint" is to make bad behavior illegal or regulated so those who are at the cusp of temptation, like banks with billions of our dollars in its vaults, will not do something stupid.

But the republicans have for their 14 years in Congress wittled away at 1930s democratic sponsored legislation put in place so another collapse never happened again. The republicans worked to remove or weaken those laws, the best example being the Glass-Steagall Act, and as expected by many, we quickly came into another collapse.

You do not limit crime by asking for moral restriant. You put in place laws to outlaw it and you hire regulators (cops) to watch for abuse of ,and enforce, the laws. By the republican's two pronged approach to destroying America - removing regulatory laws and not enforcing those still on the books - we have come to this unnecessary crisis. Why in the world would anyone every vote for a republican again. Many thought they wanted to take us back to the 50s. Now we know they wanted to take American back to the 20's where lots of money was also made in an unregulated economy.

And republicans cannot run away from this. Warning signs have been flashing just like the warning signs of an imminent attack just before 911. In both cases they chose to just ignore the warnings. They cannot lead, they do not deserve any public office. But they were partially right about one thing, government is the problem, but REPUBLICAN GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM.

The structure of the modern corporation poses the central dilemma for those who believe that moral responsibility is central to a "Christian" society. Our faith rightly holds that each of us is responsible to avoid the sin of greed. The NT is clear on that (check a concordance.) But the corporation is a "person" under our laws who has no moral responsibility. Its only responsibility is to maximize its returns to its shareholders. Any action that lowers its returns violates its "trust responsibility" to its shareholders.
Somehow Christian ethics must address this dilemma.

It IS ridiculous that we have to legislate what ought to be common sense, although this is also a product of parents not being parents. Children aren't being taught how to manage money and make wise decisions because it isn't being modeled for them and then they don't model it for their children either. Its a continuous cycle that has created a society of people who want immediate gratification with everything, have no self-control and don't know how to plan, think through financial decisions and make good fiscal choices. Instead of solely putting money into bailing out failing companies and paying welfare checks, maybe we should be considering implementing mandatory financial management training for anyone receiving social services. At least then we could help to reverse the problem and teach people how to model good financial decisions for their children so that their children may be able to grow up and do better.

Tulip mania or tulipomania (Dutch names include tulpenmanie, tulpomanie, tulpenwoede, tulpengekte, and bollengekte) was a period in the Dutch Golden Age during which contract prices for bulbs of the newly introduced tulip reached extraordinarily high levels and then suddenly collapsed. At the peak of tulip mania in February 1637 tulip contracts sold for more than 20 times the annual income of a skilled craftsman. It is generally considered the first recorded speculative bubble. The term "tulip mania" is often used metaphorically to refer to any large economic bubble. ...

Tech bubble, housing bubble, stock bubble, tulip bubble will always be with us and are not a product of times or places or systems of government. All these bubbles are the product of greed motivating people to chase after trends. The ones who get in on the trends early and exit in time are prudent. Those who either get in early and stay to the end and lose it all back or those who get in at the tail end of the trend act emotionally driven by their greed. For a bubble to exist it requires participation by the majority of those in the population. At the end of this housing bubble even the poor chased after homes they could not afford.

So who is the blame for a bubble? Just about every American who threw caution out the window and took on more than they could afford because of their coveting what their neighbor owned. For those who suffer, to blame anyone but yourself is to not learn a personal lesson and therefore to be open for further loses in the future. The blame game will only prepare one for future loses. If you suffer, then you brought this on yourself.

Greed is a form of covetousness.

Col 3:5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.

The Money Changers gives some interesting perspective

Then and now.

http://coinage.me/coinage_the_money_changers.htm

I couldn't agree more with Mr. Colson. We are in the position we're in today due to lack of moral restraint. Unscrupulous lenders preying on uninformed buyers who had no business getting a loan to buy a home. And the lack of moral restraint on the buyers side cannot be overlooked. While this may not sit well with the politically correct crowd, the people who obtained loans by providing false information or who were too stupid to understand what they were signing on to, shame on them. And now to hear Congress wash their hands of this mess is over the top.

Let me try to bring some fairness to the debate. I don't think hardly anybody can claim they weren't involved in the greed that caused this mess.

It's easy to blaim the "Rick Guys" that made off with the money for all this mess, and they certainly deserve it, but there are many others to blaim as well. I do think deregulation helps in many ways and can help our economy grow. Regulations are put in place to help people not be stupid, but in truth we shouldn't need this help. Regulations generally just bog down business and add cost to government and business. We should only create them when needed.

But it's hard to argue that we shouldn't impose more regulations now. Investment banks have shown we can't trust them. They are greedy for easy money and are short sighted of consequences. Anyone could have seen that lending money to people who couldn't pay it off was a bad idea. I saw this years ago when home prices skyrocketed. It happened because all the sudden, everyone was eligible for a loan. It didn't help anythings since now homes are very overpriced and no one can afford them.

I believe government was generally behind the start of the problem and not for deregulation. Many of our representatives decied they should help everyone get a home, even those who couldn't afford a home. They passed legislation that provided money for homes to people who couldn't pay for homes. This also provided more money for people to upgrade into homes that they also couldn't really afford. All this was done with our tax dollars. Many people bought houses on speculation (or greed), thinking prices would go up. If this borrowers had just said no to easy loans they couldn't afford this whole mess would have been avoided. What every happened to waiting for 20% down and a full payment you can afford.

Of course the politicians were popular for many reasons. They were helping people buys (even though they couldn't afford them). Wall street was making tons of money and getting many investers. Everyone was happy but the greed made us overlook the failure to be responsible with our own money and others. Politicians also got sweet deals from many loan companies. You can also investigate to find the ones who personnally benefited.

This moral failure goes to all classes, poor, middle class, rich, and the politicians that helped it along. The truth is this started from the legislature. I'm sure Bush will bear most of the blame since he is apparently the only person that makes laws but his role was secondary. We should look to the real people who started this first.

The truch is we need to be teaching basic morals from the time school begins so people know enough not to be careless with money for a short term gain. We will get through this mess and prosper, but this is very hard on many people. Let's not forget all the innocent people that had nothing to do with the wrongdoing but are paying a big price.

In a morally relavistic society, we have no basis for rules. That is why we need to find a moral basis. Religion is obviously the best place to look. It is obvious that not everyone will agree but we must have some basis for teaching young people right from wrong. It is impossible for government to regulate everything and we will just find ourselves in a similar situation down the road.

I mean, I also warned you about that, ...a lot of anti-gay ballot initiatives put forth by various states actually abridge a lot of rights via contract law... The whole campaign about 'activist judges' and the political purge of the circuit courts and attorney's offices and the Justice Department in general... Didn't just hurt gay people and offer some territory-marking to Christians who want government commandments to worship their God graven in stone...

It also undermined the court system's ability to provide redress of grievances, which makes a nice little cocktail of corruption combined with good old 'Corporate personhood' granting the big corporations all the rights of private citizens and none of the responsibilities, (look to Reagan for that, IIRC...)

So, yeah, while the 'righteous' were trying to turn government into an enforcer of sexual morality and mandatory public piety, they were up to a whole lot of other things you weren't looking at.

So what's it got to do with your social agenda?

Plenty. As much in what was not done as in what was done while you were distracting yourselves and those you threatened.

Oh, yeah, and let's not forget 'Tort reform.'

Good luck suing a corporation if they screwed you.

Sorry for the rant, but *that's* the sort of thing you 'righteous' guys *weren't* paying attention to while coming after gays and issues related to *sex.*

'Moral absolutes' and all.

I mean, you do realize, of course, that these things which just *crashed* are the same entities and markets into which Bush and McCain wanted to *bet our Social Security fund on?*

McCain was even starting to broach the topic in *this* campaign, if I recall correctly, though that didn't go over well.

Oh, and on this:

"The deregulation of , and lack of controls and encouraging of loaning money to those that were lower middle class and below was done during the Clinton administration."

By a Republican Congress with a veto-proof majority that forced a lot of stuff through with shutting down the government over budgets and inquisitions over, again, a 'sexual morality' issue that began years before Clinton had his notorious little quickie....

There was more to it than Clinton, remember?

He managed to get some fiscal responsibility in and not actively promote injustices, but he was *stonewalled* on getting darn near anything progressive done.

And the fact is, as another poster said, it's not just deregulation, it's also the fact that Bush *made it worse* and it was well known that he wasn't going to pursue *enforcement* of the regulations we have, privatize profit and put all the risk on the taxpayers, and otherwise transfer wealth to the very rich.

This little 'hundred year storm' has more to blame than what a conservative Democrat had to do to get a budget through a Congress trying to shine a spotlight down his pants for six years.

It started, in fact, with Bush beginning the recession *before* 9/11 cause his deregulated energy buddies in Texas knew they wouldn't get taken to task for causing the California brownouts and essentially holding the Port of California hostage for three weeks.

Same thing with predatory lending, investment banking, and in fact, repeal of the laws against usury, as well as what were supposed to be 'stimuli' (and the rhetoric to go with them) to encourage consumer spending and speculation on bad debt while outsourcing where the money to pay off those debts *comes from.*

Nice deal for the insurance and finance companies, ....get people to pay on loans and get the property back too through foreclosures..

Only problem there being the feeding frenzy was *so* big that the value of the property they took away from people trying to make a go of it flooded the market and made it all so hard to sell people are looting said houses for the copper wire...

'The economy is fundamentally sound...'

If you own Budweiser.

" Reasonable not hateful:

"I don't know what this has to do with Gay couples there,Pagan place."

That was the *point* of the sentence you clipped out of, ...it has *nothing to do with it,*

Except of course that most of you righteous guys actively supported the people who made this happen, and kept yourselves distracted from important things like the corporate looting of our economy and civil rights, just cause you had to be fixated on trying to hurt *us.*

I. e. As I told you, spending all your time thinking who I snuggle with was your biggest problem and trying to enforce injustice about it....

Cost.

Don't say I didn't warn you.

I don't know what this has to do with Gay couples there,Pagan place.

It is off the topic completely.

The deregulation of , and lack of controls and encouraging of loaning money to those that were lower middle class and below was done during the Clinton administration. Bush and his buds failed to see it also. There is plenty of blame to go around.

However, you have built your own straw man (men) by associating what happened with the religious right, which had nothing to do with this crisis developing and now cumulating in the banks /firms failing.

You have a ax to grind, but what you are just ***sing in the wind.

I mean, you do realize who did away with the laws against usury, right, Reverend?

I thought *you* were the one saying human nature was fallen and awful without external controls, now you say the fact that *what you did* *failed again, except for the greediest,* .....proves your point?

What?

"When you have to legislate what ought to be common sense, you know we have slipped our moral moorings."

Is that why the 'Moral' politicians you stump for decided to deregulate the most greed-driven parts of the economy, so you could 'prove' it was cause of a decline in some 'popular' morality?

Hey, the taxpayers are gonna pay for those still-wealthy people making billions with the permission and subsidy of Bush and McCain ...for gambling with other people's money, why not blame the common people who aren't politically 'Moral' by Religious Right estimation, too?

Go ahead, Reverend. Add insult to injury.

If there was a 'moral failure' in the populace, it was in those who let people like you tell them that it was more 'moral' to ignore the good of the nation and vote for the greedy and moralistically-pandering, than give gay couples a fair shake.

I have been in a spiritual funk since the Fourth of July, Independence Day, last summer season. So much for independence when control freaks with boundry issues are pretending to run our nation.

There is an old wisdom, don't create nor prevent a catastrophe for those out of spiritual alignment. Just get away from them so as not to get sucked into their self induced black holes. Well, too late for me, I sorta got sucked in doing some volunteer work, shame on me.

Am sure doing prison ministry Chuck, you know that prison sentence can be sort of resultant of spiritual malady which first caused emotional and financial distress then through further moral and ethical decay, the Law catches up to the afflicted. People get addicted to drugs and alchol, start losing everything they love in life until eventually they are lost even to themselves. Such is the cycle repeated over and over again. Unless, there is intervention of a Divine type in my world.

The God void is temporarily relieved by "things" to me. Obsessive Compulsive Behavior Disorder is a funny one. What can we throw into this void to reduce the pain ? Or, I have seen people turn from Jeckyll to Hyde with stress like Borderline Personality Disorder or Bi-Polar disease. Did you know that a current estimate for incidence of schizophrenia is One-Million people for the United States ? Yes, Industry is claiming 1 in 300 suffer from schizophrenia so being that there are 300 million people in the states that makes One-Million schizophrenics right ? And it is a good time to be nuts in our society what with everyone of our securities being threatened on a daily basis ? Shall we count them, primary residence, disposable income, employment, fuel costs with winter approaching and the biggie, lack of healthcare. I mean if industry claims that there are 1 million schizophrenics in the United States why don't we have Universal Healthcare coverage ? The answer to that question is beyond my personal rationalizing skills.

One thing to be certain. Financial Credit liability has now hit the banks. Maybe a good change is in the works like living within one's means or saving for a rainy day. Of course, too many rainy days in a row cause crop failure too. And without jobs how can we save for a rainy day ? Or with gasolene at $3.50 per gallon, United States dollars, how does the average American save or tithe for that mattter ?

These issues are way too big for me and my personal central processing unit has overheated to failure numerous times since Independence Day 2008. Good for some not to ask me questions, they just can't handle the truth. Some people have to learn how to express the truth. With the threat of penalty for expressing some truths, I am afraid too many will remain spiritually ill.