Choices of Eternal Consequence

To Paganplace: Just because people do things in someone else's name doesn't necessarily mean anything at all except that it is their excuse. God actually is Love, it doesn't matter if you or anyone else believes it or not, we are responsible for what we do, that is called free will and we will answer for what we do and why we do it. What I am trying to say is that absolutely everyone will be with God and one day everyone will be glad of that. So much of what I hear at bible studies and read on these postings makes me wonder why anyone would even consider being a christian if God was anything like so many people think that He is, that call themselves christian. It is really refreshing when I talk to someone, and I do sometimes, that actually wants the God of Love to win Total Victory. There are things that are true that are called Divine Justice and Divine Mercy, the sad thing is that so many so-called christians want Divine Mercy for themselves and Divine Justice for other people when in reality it should be the other way around. I didn't ask to be me but that is who I am and the name I sign is my real name. God made a nice universe and the earth is a nice place but we sure have kind of trashed it and He knew we would. We are kind of one, big unruly, dysfunctional family. We are all brothers and sisters to each other whether we like it or not. When I hear bible thumpers saying how everything in the bible is true but they somehow manage to rip out page one, "Let Us make man in Our Image and Likeness" I find that very sad and taking the relationship that God has established with us and trying to turn it into something magical, as in unless you say the right words and just the way I tell you to say them, rather than just what it is: God is our Father, Creator; Brother, Redeemer of all; Knitting Buddy, Sanctifier of all. I would like to mention that God is not a male or female or an it but God, God Incarnate was a Guy though. A lot of people claim to know God's Name but that is about all that they know about God. God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not religious affiliations or lack thereof, a lot of people will be trying to hide behind their religion, this statement seems self-explainitory to me. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

KD-

That was beautifully put! I couldn't have said it better. Thank you for speaking the truth so elloquently. I was moved beyond words and I share with you the last lines you wrote. Thank you!

Do I believe in Heaven and Hell…yes indeed. Here’s why.

We as mankind were created in the very image of God. We were made like Him to be near Him. To commune with Him and yes, worship Him. Yet the god of the world (Satan) deceived man and man in his God given free will chose to rebel and sever the intimate bonds between the Creator and the Created.

Yet even while being rejected, God did not reject man. He loved and cared for humankind and provided the bounty of the earth to sustain his ultimate creation. He made His people a great nation and led them through wars, pestilence, drought and natural disasters. In His infinitely perfect plan, He sent His son to earth to live as a man, to take on man’s sin burden and to die as His law demanded, a sacrificial lamb, perfect and holy in every way. He was in the world, but the world was not in him. How many of us can make that statement? None!

Satan being a creature of light and the father of lies (Read Isaiah 14:14-18 for the story of the rebellion) created Hell, not God. God cannot tolerate much less create evil when he alone is holy and perfect. Satan wants to rule, to dominate, to ruin mankind and over the centuries has done so on a grand scale. I don’t think anyone needs to be convinced that mankind is imperfect, immoral and let’s call it like it is, evil. Not just the Hitler’s or Stalin’s of the world past, present and future, but all of us without exception are sinful and deserving of the worst punishment imaginable for failing to live uprightly in a fallen world that needs love and compassion.

By being able to choose ourselves what path we will follow, God simply asks us to come to him, to carry his burden, for His yoke is light. To be a person after His own heart. And if we choose to be like Him and accept Him in the form of the resurrected Son, then Heaven is a place prepared for those who have done so. To those alone who have accepted the Truth of Christ. I personally have made that choice and commitment and am assured daily there is a place called Heaven that is my true home and one day I will be there forever. And yes, with many more like Mr. Colson who have stood for their beliefs and taken the name calling and jeering as a blessing to be hated for the cause of Christ.

Hell has been defined in many ways and I personally believe it is the total and complete absence of God and His attributes of love and mercy. Every good thing comes from God and the evil one brings every imaginable curse, hurt and woe to mankind. If this world is bad as it is now, Hell will be far worse. I am sorry that many of the respondents to Mr. Colson’s beliefs would choose Hell over Heaven.

I do recommend that any of you who have the mindset to explore more, read a book titled, “The Case for Christ” by Lee Strobel. As a news person, attorney and atheist, he sought to debunk the “myth” of Jesus once and for all. Yet along every avenue he pursued time and time again he was confronted with the facts that supported without question that Jesus was indeed who he said he was. The living Son of God who died for all and rose again, the only one to ever do so in the entire history of the world. Then if you want to know more about the man from heaven, just read one book of the Bible, the Gospel of John in the New Testament and then ask yourself is Christ who I thought he was or can he really be the savior of the world?

Blaise Pascal stated many years ago…”There is a God shaped vacuum in the souls of men that only God can fill.” It’s really simple…the choices are crystal clear. Believe that money, power, possessions and good works are all you need to be saved or to simply ask Christ into your lives who will not make you perfect, but forgiven and therefore acceptable to Holy God. Worship the god of the world or serve the God of the Universe. Believe that science has the answer to the struggles of mankind or place your future in the one who created the science to begin with. To me, the only realistic choice was to believe and to love and accept Christ into my life. I remain a great sinner, but now I am suitable to one day stand before perfect God, redeemed by a perfect Savior.

My vacuum is filled and I pray that yours may be as well. So as for me and my house, this day we choose to serve the Lord. Heaven and home await.

Listening to Chuckles the Watergate Clown preaching to us is like watching a dog eat its own vomit.
Hey chuckles - oh ye of enemies list hatemongering - do you want to know why you are so despised by some, perhaps many? You failed the American people and you profited by it.
You think you just committed a few crimes and received a punishment; and now it is clear sailing?
Your crimes extend far past the physical enumerated events and are intangible and abstract but nevertheless real. You were instrumental, INSTRUMENTAL I say, in destroying the people's trust in government and raising the level of cynicism to unworkable extremes. You completely changed the dynamics of the executive branch and its relationship with government. YOU did that.
You viper.
How can you sleep at night.

Er, not wrists... palms. In the Bible, those tendons can support human body weight in the Roman system.

Wouldn't want to defy no Gods or nothing.

Hee. I meant 'wound,' not 'womb.' Jungian slip. :)

Just this thing that bugs me. Guy's bleeding out the wrists and everyone's worried about authority.

Was that the point?

If it was, I'm glad to not get it.

Speaking of 'Doubting Thomases...'

What's Thomas do?

He sees yer Jesus, and everyone's so impressed they kowtow... He's thought of as a nearly-bad-guy cause yer Jesus shows up and he's gotta poke his finger in the wombb.

Call it a Pagan heart, but you know what bothered me about that story?

Everyone's either on their knees immediately or poking fingers into open wounds.

I kind of noted the absence of *anyone* involved thinking to say, "Dude, that's gotta hurt. Anything I can get you for that?"

Wild idea, but this idea of 'Who and What Is Divine Authority' isn't necessarily all about 'Great Compassion' or nothing.

What's this all about? "Garbage?"

Is that what you think?

What would you like to do now?

Something that I caught while scrolling down:

"But who are you, O man, to talk back to God?" Romans 9:20"

Someone looking at a *book,* not 'God?'

Just a random idea you might wanna account for if you can. :)

"Doesn't anyone know what christianity is about? Of course I haven't read all the posts but God is not the vindictive piece of garbage that so many seem to think. I've met the Trinity. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum."

Yet you're no Jack Kennedy.

What would you like, Thomas Paul Moses?

Someone to say the names you drop aren't responsible for what's done in those names?

That the fact that horrors are routinely done in these 'names' you've 'met' do not matter agaist the fact you feel to have 'met' them?

So you met them.

Thomas Paul Moses.

Welcome to 2007.

What would you like to do now?

Doesn't anyone know what christianity is about? Of course I haven't read all the posts but God is not the vindictive piece of garbage that so many seem to think. I've met the Trinity. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

JLWaters:

I have no problem with Christians whatsoever - with one and only one caveat: do not impose your religion on me.

E pluribus unum is one of the original mottoes of the U.S. along with Annuit Coeptis and Novus Ordo Seclorum. In God We Trust, In Deo Speramus, was the motto of Brown University starting in 1764 but was not adopted as the motto of the U.S. until 1954. The founding fathers had nothing to do with it, and, frankly, would have been appalled at the imposition of religion on instruments of the U.S. government.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written by Francis Bellamy in 1892. It did not contain the words 'under god'. These words were imposed by Congress in 1956. The founding fathers had nothing to do with it. These things, albeit relatively insignificant, are attempts to impose religion on people who do not want it. The founding fathers had no such wish.

This is what I mean about being a good American. You need to know the actual history of your country. Moreover, we do not have religious freedom in the U.S. What we have is limited religious tolerance. That is not altogether a bad thing. You guys aren't killing us or putting us in camps. BUT, if we had religious freedom, In God We Trust would not be our motto, the words 'under god' would not be on the pledge, and churches would not have a property tax exemption that forces me to subsidize police and fire protection and a host of other services funded by property taxes.

Religious freedom is a quite simple concept. It can be summarized in 3 short, declarative sentences: You keep your religion out of my life and away from my family. You keep your fingers out of my pockets. I will do the same.

BTW, how can you think that praying at my children in public schools is not imposing religion? No atheist prays, ever.

And, hey, while I'm rambling, Christians... No, it doesn't make a lot of sense for your Jesus to sacrifice himself to himself to save others from the wrath of himself.

What if....

That wasn't the *point?*

What if book-people turned 'Deity' into *their own blindest, basest impulses toward oppressing others...*

And the wonder of the whole universe into:

"The County Judge
Who Held A Grudge
And will search forevermore..
For the Band On The Run."

What if that whole thing wasn't about *a new way to appease the irrational,*

But just maybe a way to *appease the *idea* of irrational authority.*

Maybe what needs to be 'saved' is *not* humanity as we were made, but the 'God' seen by people who do terrible things to others over how reality doesn't match a book, and blame it on 'God.'

All that aside, a little poetic literacy would go a long way.

"Yep - notice the look on the face of the next person you hear say "Love the sinner, hate the sin"

I can quite place it, but it's always the same - the cat that ate the mouse? The kid who DOESN'T get caught with their hand in the cookie jar? Having your cake and eating it too?"

It's impler than that.

Note how they say that their hateful actions, (and facial expressions) aren't 'really hate,' or 'really hurting people' ...by claiming, 'Oh, we're *all really sinners.* You're just worse than the greedy or wrathful or gluttonous or heterosexually 'lustful' because, it's 'sinnier' to defy authority and be happy and adjusted and not go begging for a flagellum.'

They can't tell the difference between 'sin' and *harm,* or *self* and *other* because they are taught to *need* to *order their universe around unaccountable authority.*

They see no nobler motives in things related to sex because they accord *themselves* none.

Are told it's "usurping God" to see sex for what it is, instead of listening to men in robes with a book and a tendency to think the 'sin' drama is more important than the people they hurt.

They rail against the fact that 'Sex Sells' and never look at the fact that there's a sex-shaped hole in their lives and constant pressure to *make money, feel guilty, spend it blindly, and give some to men with robes, a book, and sexual hangups they try to enforce, whatever the human cost.*

My challenge to people who 'feel sad for me,' cause they can't see that the universe *isn't* about obeying their hangups and dogmas...

And to the poor souls who can't apparently conceive that *life* has *meaning* *without* these ideas of judgement and eternal reward...

Well, I ask, if, 'Blessed are the poor-in-spirit,' what's with the 'royal kingdom of Heaven,' everyone's baited with, here?'

What if Justice isn't about future vengeance and glory and spiritual 'riches.'

What if it's just about *Justice.*

The kind of 'gold' you might take back from the spirit world and find are dried leaves.

And treasure.

Paganplace, you say "The hate shows, speaking of the obvious."

Yep - notice the look on the face of the next person you hear say "Love the sinner, hate the sin"

I can quite place it, but it's always the same - the cat that ate the mouse? The kid who DOESN'T get caught with their hand in the cookie jar? Having your cake and eating it too?

Some kind of guilty pleasure

I dunno, E favorite, all this 'holiness' just seems to keep coming down to *controlling sex.*

Personally, I don't think you can "Love the sinner and hate the sin" when all the people involved *are* to you is 'defined by a 'sin.'"

The hate shows, speaking of the obvious.

I went to that church website to check on the golden lettered bible vision and found a audio sermon on homosexuality. PS God is against it -- very against it. "God is displeased with homosexual acts." Homosexuality should be
"opposed in Jesus' name." The pastor is a great speaker, with a deep and sexy voice, who seems to relish saying "homosexual" over and over again.

I'm getting turned on just listening to him.

He wants christians to be "compassionate to homosexuals" - to "have a ministry to homosexuals." Then he says, "There are homomsexuals who are waiting to see if you love them [whoa] ---- even if you hate the sin that destroys them."

It ends abruptly - no "amen," no sound from the congregation. I bet it was done in a recording studio.

"why would he bother to make the words glow in the bible? Just to get one convert? I think she should get her vision checked. "

Fairly common cognitive phenomenon, actually, not limited to the Bible. It's stress-related, ...when you see high-contrast delineations like words on a page, from a certain mental state, things will appear 'fringed...' usually in a clear or yellow way: Usually the mind 'edits out' these perceptions, but in hypervigilant states, you could see that in the phone book, if the phone book seemed to present sufficient threat to your instincts: or around anyone standing against a light background.

You get a lot of that, from people thinking they're seeing auras when they're really just freaked out.

Gotta remember that the human eye isn't a camera lens, it's a living organic thing whose input, if you will, our brain processes.

It is absolutely amazing what passes for thinking, these days......

Andrew from OR-
I apologize if I offended you, but let's look back at what I wrote. I never said "Unless we are allowed to force our views, then you can force yours...". I don't mind the motto E Pluribus Unum, but that was not the original motto. It came along at the same time as In God We Trust. I and other Christians never wrote the Pledge of Allegiance, or the National Anthem, or such. I never said we did. Our nation's founding father's incorporated those lyrics to represent what they wanted our country to represent. A free nation, under God, that cannot be divided by man. To say that it is an oxymoron? I'm sorry, but that right there makes you a pretty poor american yourself. I love this country we live in. I would die for this country, as many of my relatives have done so in the past. I also support religious freedom. If we didn't have these, this debate would not be going on. We'd all be on trial. That's what is so great about it. As far as the lack of morals remark? I retract that remark as it unfair to link all atheists under one label, so in that, I sincerely apologize. But like it or not, christians have just as much right to their opinions as you do to yours. We just all need to show eachother the same respect.

Saddened for you, you mention a woman who "went to open her bible and the letters were glowing in Gold. She thought she was dreaming so she closed the Bible. When she opened it again, it opened to the same place and the letters were still glowing. She woke up her cousin and asked her to look at the letters and to her cousin, the letters were just written in black. But She could see them in Gold. Now that is something that only God can do."

I'm not impressed. When you consider all the pain and suffering on earth that God, if he is all powerful, could sweep away, why would he bother to make the words glow in the bible? Just to get one convert?

I think she should get her vision checked.

"For all you non-believers who tell us Christians that we need to study something besides the Bible, I will on one condition. YOU really study the Bible and come to your own conclussions."

Long since done. Your turn.

"Yes, I believe in heaven and hell because I believe in a God of justice. If there were no consequences, my actions would have no significance."

The problem with this view of the author's, is he mistakes the idea that *his God rules the universe in a certain way,* ...with *actions having consequences;* which is inherent to the world: ... and thus denying that actions have *inherent significance,* apart from judgment, reward, and punishment.

I would say that this doesn't *create* morality, or meaning, but rather *divorces these things from real experience,* by *displacing them onto an external authority.*

"The God who creates us gives us a free will, enables us to make free moral decisions, and also holds us accountable for those decisions."

When "Free Will" exists only to make the presumption of a cruel judge seem nonetheless 'just' when clearly the depiction of said figure is just neither in depiction nor in the results of following it, ...when the whole idea is predicated upon the idea that one must follow arbitrarily-asserted rules or suffer a loss of wondrous eternal reward/suffer eternal torture, well, then, in that worldview, "free will"

Is neither.

* Harry Bethel: "Everyone deserves to be confined to the Lake of Fire for all eternity..."

All the Christians posting here ought to stop and think about that for a second. However irreverant and even rude some of the anti-Christian posters may be, not a single one has advocated the violent torture of even a single Christian.

Obviously, Harry Bethel has failed to live up to Jesus's injunction to love his neighbors.

To be clear: I do not deserve to be tortured for all eternity, and neither do you.

* proud to be a CHRISTIAN: "MAYBE YOU HAVE NOT READ YOUR BIBLE. LUCIFER WAS THE HIGHEST ANGEL WHO THOUGHT HE WAS BETTER THAN GOD. HE IS THE REASON THERE IS A HELL..."

Perhaps it is you who have not read the Bible. The story of Lucifer's rebellion against God appears nowhere within scripture. It is one of the many myths that have grown up around the Bible, like the names and descriptions of the Magi who came to visit Jesus in the manger, or the notion that the New Testament is pro-family (aside from its teachings on divorce).

* SAVED BY GRACE: "It all comes down to whether or not you believe the bible. It's very straight forward in the gospels."

I suppose that depends on your idea of straightforward. Surely you realize that each sentence of your summary requires a huge amount of explanatory detail (most of which, in my experience, few believers have ever thought about). For example, I suspect most non-believers are dumbfounded by the suggestion that the simplest and most logical solution to the imperfection of Man was for God to incarnate himself into human form and arrange for his own painful death. Perhaps there's some logic to it, but at the very least, it requires an explanation.

* saddend by our kind: "... I dont know about the rest of you but I dont think I came from some monkey or fish , if thats the case why are there still monkeys and fish , why did some change and all."

It seems rather off-topic... but the idea is that some fish were subjected to rather different selection pressures than others (fancy term for the idea that in some populations many died because they weren't able to "hold their breath" long enough while in other populations many died because they couldn't swim fast enough). Just as some dogs developed into Great Danes when the people breeding them selected breeding pairs based on some traits while others developed into Chihuahuas when the people breeding them selected breeding pairs based on a different set of traits. The differences are: (1) The "selection" was made by a process which didn't involve humans; (2) the process took a great deal longer; and (3) the eventual changes made are much greater.

Kevin-
First of all I want to say thank you for reading my comment. Once you know the truth, you have no excuse when you stand before God. I do want to tell you that I think it is interesting that you don't believe in the Bible. Some of your statements are actually some of the arguments that I would use in supporting the Bible. I think it is very odd that so many different authors of the Bible, who lived in different times and didn't know eachother, all seemed to be writing about the same thing. They all write about the same God and none of the books Contradict eachother. That reveals to me that it has to be the Truth. How could so many people who lived at different times and different places write the same message, unless it was Divinely Inspired. If you can prove to me that there is one thing in the Bible that isn't truth, then I would consider putting my Faith in something else. But you can't. The Bible is the PERFECT WORD OF GOD. There is no flaw in it, no contradiction, no lies...it is 100% Truth. The Prophecy's that were written before Jesus came to the earth, we all fulfilled by him...ALL OF THEM. Not one or two...all of them. And the one's that are still left un-fulfilled, will be fulfilled upon His return. The good thing about God's Word is that it is absolutely left open for you to decide. You don't have to choose Christ, the choice is yours. But I PROMISE you, with 100% certainty, that one day you will wish you had taken even a moment to consider it. Because the decision you make will haunt you for the rest of your life. Just as you would like me to study other books, I encourage you to study the Bible. And when you do, I encourage you before hand to pray before you do and ask God this: "God, if you are real, then I ask for you to reveal yourself to me in the Bible". I promise you...if you sincerely ask it...He will reveal Himself to you in a way that will bring you to your knees. I will leave you with a story of a Muslim lady who I had the privelage of seeing at our Church last Sunday. She was Muslim, living in a Muslim country when someone gave her a Bible. She didn't belive God was real, but she asked him to reveal Himself to her. She said she felt like God woke her up in the middle of the night. She went to open her bible and the letters were glowing in Gold. She thought she was dreaming so she closed the Bible. When she opened it again, it opened to the same place and the letters were still glowing. She woke up her cousin and asked her to look at the letters and to her cousin, the letters were just written in black. But She could see them in Gold. Now that is something that only God can do. If you would like to hear her whole story, please follow this link, http://gracelandbaptist.org/templates/cusgracelandbc/default.asp?id=26992
and click on Current Message Series, and select June 24th, Does God really answer Prayer. You will be able to hear her story.

Kevin, I will pray for you by name that one day your eyes will be open and you will be able to see the Truth and know in your heart that it is such.

In his Grace,

I'm not sure why the first few comments were all "I'll take Hell over Chuck's version of Heaven." Maybe I'm not totally familiar with all that Chuck has offered here but I think he's right. God will not force men to Hell (or heaven for that matter) He's just given us the road-map between the two.

God and religion are two separate things. God is God. Religion is the worlds biggest business. Jesus whos real name was Joshua ben Joseph (why give him a different name?)was a good Jew all of his life, as was his mother Merriam and associates. Joshua was ticked off about the politics and curruption going on at the Temple and wanted people to get back to the basics of believing in a loving god that wanted us to get our rewards by treating others as we would have them treat us. Christianity is a religion, recreated as a church by Constantine(a Pagan's) mother, based on one man wanting to be a good Jew. That's the facts people. You can re-write history all you want.

JLWaters:

Just listen to yourself. Unless you're allowed to force your views on us, then we are somehow we are forcing our views on you. That's truly pathetic. We atheists rather like the original motto of the U.S.: e pluribus unum - an inclusive motto that every American can get behind. In god we trust just divides the country. Same thing with the pledge. One nation indivisible is inclusive, truly American. One nation under god indivisible is an oxymoron. As soon as you imposed the words under god in the pledge, you just divided the country again and made it so that almost 50 million Americans cannot, in good conscience, recite the pledge.

And what is this nonsense about our lack of morals? I will match the morality of my life against yours any day. Nice to know also that you don't believe in religious freedom - one of the founding principles of our country. You may be a very good Christian JL, but you are a terrible excuse for an American.

First of all and most important. God is in all of us. If you really seek to know what it is you already know because of God being in you. Go inside yourself and find your/God's truth.

Why would an all-Loving, all-Powerful, all-Knowing God:

1. Require that I 'show' or 'display' that I love him through a test of faith - indicating that this all powerful God lacks something that I must fill.

2. Have to hold me to a promise because if he doesn't he loses his all-Powerful status - meaning that he really is not all-Powerful.

3. Feel like I pulled a fast one on Him if I didn't keep my promise - indicating he is no all-Knowing and knew when I made the promise that I wouldn't be able to keep it.

4. Put me into a time table where at Year/Day/Millenium/Some Unknown Time point I will have no more chance - and then tell me that I have free agency - Pretend to be a loving God? Pretend that he's not lacking in perfect in Patience?

We've projected our own culture onto God. We cannot see another God other than how we act to each other. Jealousy, Vengeance, Destruction. It's the only way that we can justify how we live. And then profess that we live the only way that there is to live and get back to him. If we say God is anything other than every collapses and we're forced to reevaluate everything. Bring it on.

To quote one of the most influential contemporary spiritual leaders his communications from God:

"If you do not go within, you go without."
"I am with you always and in all ways."
"You've got me all wrong."

God is a righteous God who protects his righteousness above else with his power and he administrates in love by show grace (unmerited favor) toward all who faithe (not believe). In the KJV in every case where one reads belief it should be faith or some variation of faith. It is also true of righeousness that every where just is read it should be converted to righteous or some form of it. Paul quoting the Old Testament reads' "The righteous by faith shall live"
If one presumes that he is good should read the account of the rich young ruler. When Jesus says why callest me good if I am not God. Only God is good.
Some say give me "Justice" which is a legal term, God is looking for "Righteousness" as he is the only giver of righteousness and the caller of those he wants out from those he don't want. If you are not called then he don't want you it makes no difference if you "Believe" in heaven or hell or Jesus you are going there and you have no choice in the matter and there is no second chance after death. Jesus did all the doing that there was to be done all else is unrighteousness. The father gave Jesus for the sin of the whole world to get the treasure in the field. Jesus said, "I came "only" for the house of Israel".
It is not the wearing of clothes or keeping of a holy day or the eating of food or even of praying. As is mentioned in the book of Romans that the new covenant of faith is trust in the faith of Jesus not our faith but his. We are required to have faith in his blood and his name, which is above every other name named. He bought us on the slave market of this world and he can do what he wants with us for we are all worthy of death.

For all you non-believers who tell us Christians that we need to study something besides the Bible, I will on one condition. YOU really study the Bible and come to your own conclussions. Or there's another set of books called "The case for Faith", "The Case for Christ", and "The Case for a Creator". These were all written by an avid Atheist who decided once and for all to find out the "truth behind the religion-hoax". He talked to the most intelligent people in the world, including scholars, scientists, and theologians. After the interviews, this man became a Christian. The books all contain documented evidence that point towards Christ, God, and faith all being real. If you read those, study the Bible and still do not believe, then your heart has been forever turned against God and I will really feel sorry for you. You are all basing your "opinions" not on founded facts but on stereotypical readings, images, and stories. We always hear about how us christians should not be allowed to force our views on you unbelievers. That's why your kind try to ban the Pledge from schools because it says the word God, or change the national anthem, or remove "In God We Trust" from the faces of our money. Isn't that your forcing us to live by your views? You don't want us to force our religion on you, but it's ok to force your unbelief and lack of morals on us? I think it's about time Christians made a stand against the unbelievers who try to tell us how to live our lives according to what they believe because our way makes them uncomfortable. It makes them see the wrongs they've committed, that they are not right, and they cannot handle that fact. Also, it is a documented fact that once you took the Pledge of Allegiance, the National Anthem, and prayer out of the schools, our children have more crimes committed, more drugs, more violence, more teen pregnancies, and more failures than ever in our nation's history. Just something to think about when you try to convince everyone religion and christianity is bad.

fag

The "lake of fire" etc. are all metaphors. Hell is separation from all that is good, holy, true, and just, from all tenderness, compassion, and fellow-feeling. It is utter and complete selfishness.

To take up the 'boy in the wheelchair' analogy, if that hypothetical lad refused your help, and indeed was most vehement that he could and would do it himself and neither wanted or needed another's help, would you be so officious as to say, "I don't care. You need help and I will help you, no matter what you want."? Of course not--anyone would say that such an action would be a major violation of the boy's autonomy.

Now, if that same boy were to get crushed under an 18-wheeler in his folly, of course one wouldn't shrug one's shoulders indifferently or even rejoice in seeing the consequences of his arrogant and stubborn refusal to accept one's help. One would be devastated, and wish that one had been a little more eloquent in persuading him to accept help.

Now, as for the question of those who have never heard of Christ, or have heard of Him only in such distorted terms that they rejected not so much the Gospel as a twisted, half-baked version of the Gospel, St. Julian of Norwich wrestled with that same question, and God answered her, "And all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well." That is, a just and loving God would provide an opportunity for all His children to be saved; exactly how is none of our business--we are to do the work He has given to us, and let God be God.

For just a moment imagine a world where:

Your neighbor loves you and desires no harm but only the best for you, whether your neighbor is next door or on the other side of the world. "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Children without mother and father and widows with every need taken care of. "Pure and faultless religion is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress."

Husbands love their wives; provide and care for their wives just as they would for their own bodies. "...husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies."

Fathers love their children and are committed to remaining with them throughout their childhood. "Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord."

Children honor and are obedient to their parents. "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. Honor your father and mother-which is the first commandment with a promise-that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth."

Being unselfish and humble was commonplace, where everyone was concerned more about the needs of others than their own needs. "Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility let each esteem others better than himself. Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others."

Arguing and complaining didn't exist. "Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault..."

Words spoken were used only to build others up and never to tear down. "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen."

Worry and anxiety don't exist. "... do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?"

Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control are the rule of the day.

Simplistic, utopian bliss? Maybe. The world most desire to live in? Likely. Cult-like doctrine? Hardly. Intolerant hate speech? Quite the contrary. Words to live by? Absolutely.

There is a God. He gives us freedom of choice. Choose wisely.

We see things from the human perspective, with our limited knowledge and intelligence. We tend to believe we can use reason to determine truth, but our reasoning is clouded by our life experiences. We know so little about life and the universe, and yet we spout off about what is and isn't truth. I belong to no religion, but I am a christian, defined by my faith in Jesus Christ. It is not by knowledge or intelligence that I have come to this faith, because I have none of that. It is simple, child-like faith, by hearing, and then believing.

If a Christian truly believes in heaven and that they, and their friends and family, have chosen the correct path to get there, then why is there still crying at a Christian funeral? If they are so convinced that their loved ones are going to heaven then shouldn't they be having a joyous celebration?

How does a Christian rectify the problem of loved ones not making it to heaven? If you are a Christian who firmly believes you are going to heaven and you have a child that decides to become an atheist, what kind of joy can you truly experience living an eternity in heaven with the knowledge that your own child is spending the same eternity burning in hell?

If you can say that the thought of your own child suffering an eternity of torture does not trouble you then you are psychotic and should be summarily dismissed from the discussion because you can not claim a God of love when you clearly demonstrate you have no concept of love.

Lacking this concept of love that I as an atheist am comfortable acknowledging and accepting, you have attained the great position of completely and utterly self centered. Therefore by your own definition of Christian you are going to Hell.

To believe in heaven and hell is to condemn oneself to the misery of being destined only for the hotter of the two.

What Mr. Colson describes as hell is eternal separation from God. We send ourselves there by deciding to not have a relationship with Him. God being a gentleman will not force any of us to be His robots. We have free will. If I want a relationship with the almighty God of the universe I can decide to do so. If not god will let me make the decision to separate from Him and be without Him for eternity. I find it sad that so many would rather be sparated from God than to share eternity with Chuck Colson. I believe that we will be so busy basking in the glory of God that we will completly miss out on Chuck

God is a righteous God who protects his righteous above else with his power and he administrates in love by show grace (unmerited favor) toward all who faithe (not believe). In the KJV in every case where one reads belief it should be faith or some variation of faith. It is also true of righeous that that every where justice is read it should be converted to righteous or some form of it. Paul quoting the Old Testament reads' "The righteous by faith shall live"
If one prsumes that he is good should read the account of the rich young rule. When Jesus says why callest me good if I am not God. Only God is good.
Some say give me "Justice" which is a legal term, God is looking for "Righteous" as he is the only giver of righteous and the caller of those he wants out from those he didn't want. If you are not called then he dont want you it makes no difference if you "Believe" in heaven or hell you are going there and you have no choice in the matter and there is no second chance after death.

Do we not punish our own children? If they rebel as grown children we leave them to the consequences. If we love God, we will follow him. If we do not, He grieves, but will not force you to. And then there are consequences. We have they freedom to rebel in these posts, but one day we won't be so smug about knowing better than God.

Charles Colson says: "We aren’t sent to hell by God, we send ourselves there by refusing God’s gracious offer. God is patient and is delaying judgment because he doesn’t want 'anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance' (2 Peter 3:9)."

Chuck, if you can tear yourself away from the Bible for a moment you may want to broaden your education concerning our existence by reading a book by Christopher Hitchens. The primary title is: 'god is not GREAT' with a subtitle: 'why religion poisons everything.'

But, a word of caution: If you decide to read Hitchens, first consider Mark Twain's words:

"...when you know a man's religious complexion, you know what sort of religious books he reads when he wants some more light, and what sort of books he avoids, lest by accident he get more light than he wants."

It all comes down to whether or not you believe the bible. It's very straight forward in the gospels. John the baptist declared Jesus as the lamb of God who took away the sins of the world and Jesus didn't deny it. The bible also says God is a holy God and that man is a fallen being due to his own choice. This is why God sent his only begotten son (aka himself) to die for us so we could have another chance. Sin cannot exist where a holy God exists and it makes sense that only God can save us.

It's all about choices as is everything in life and God's plan is perfect. It wouldn't be perfect if he didn't give man a choice to love him or not. Otherwise we would be automatons with no purpose.

I used to really wonder if God existed. I thought for awhile maybe it was all made up and was just here to stay because of long held traditions. As a kid I always wondered how all these people could be so into talking about Jesus and so on. My family didn't do much praying or go to church, except on Christmas. I'm 22 now. I'm not a gullable person and I need facts. However, a couple years ago I decided, because I never really had before, to read the Bible. I picked it up, started with the New Testament, and something inside me changed. I wasn't reading it to find God or to just believe everything it said because my dad or my pastor said so. It was really like a light clicked on. I can't describe it. I knew that God was real and that Jesus was real and that I was loved. It sounds crazy to nonbelievers, and it's just the kind of speak that would've turned me away beforehand; but I don't care, I know the truth. Since then I've had a hobby of studying Jesus, the history of Christianity and even other religions. It has only strengthened my faith. I've had such positive changes in my behavior and mood, and I feel so much more positive. And I didn't need any help but from God alone. After that day when I realized the truth, I began praying, asking for guidance and surely enough it has come. I want to help people, I'm less judgemental, everything is so much better. Bottom line, when you find God, and let him know that you want to know Him, you will know he's there listening. It's not crazy, it really isn't. I have a feeling God is beyond the Laws of Science, so arguments about evolution, the history of the universe, etc. really don't matter. I am dissapointed in what people who aren't Christians see in the media: hypocrites. If everyone followed Jesus' teachings to a T, the world would be as perfect as it could be. You really can't argue with that. Seek and you shall find. Trust me, you will know when you've found HIM. Thanks for reading my late night rant about the one we call "God" who loves us all.

We need to understand that our relationship with God is like a parent child relationship. A parent always loves his child, but what happens if the child does not follow the parents rules? The parent has to discipline the child; does he give him another chance? Of course, but what happens if the child continues to break all the rules and refuses to change? The parent has no choice but to remove him from the home. Why? Because if left in the home the child's behavior would effect the rest of the family. So by whose choice would the child have to leave his house? By his own! This is just like our relationship with God He gives us the rules, he gives us the chances but it is up to us if we want to make Heaven our home. God can not let sin into Heaven because it would affect everybody else. The book of Genesis tells us that we were created in God's own imagine. So think about it parents/child or God/children. It is simple and it is our choice

Hey Christians!

Ever wonder if maybe,just maybe
you're being hoodwinked?

Ever think at all?
It seems that most of the people commenting here are expressing signs of desperation as they defend superstition. It really is tragic and frankly a frustrating aspect of existence in America that Americans who have every opportunity for intellectual freedom seem to be lazy, unwilling or perhaps too fearful to take the leap towards enlightenment preferring to embrace the claptrap that emanates from the superstition peddlers, circus huckster clerics. Who in their right mind believes that Noah’s Ark is a true story or that Creationism offers insights into anything? Way too many Americans do for sure. BTW The 10 Commandments are basically wicked and misogynist. What’s the deal with a jealous boyfriend god that threatens damnation and hellfire if you dare check out another god? Isn’t that the modus of ex-lovers who stalk, assault and murder?

Yes of course there is no difference between Astrology, I Ching, crystal ball gazing, Judaism, Christianity or Islam etc. Religion is by definition the practice of myth, magic and superstition. Why we don’t as people seeking the common good take action and indict clerics for marketing something that isn’t proven is beyond me. Superstition peddlers and the whacky beliefs they continue to infect the gullible with deserve ridicule and criticizing for deluding the emotionally immature. When the pope/king dresses up like a Las Vegas show girl and parades on stage chanting magic words while waving a wand a la Harry Potter everyone really should break out in laughter yet thanks to the emotional bullying from childhood religious conditioning most can only genuflect as feudal serfs before a monarch. How crazy is that?

proud to be a christian, it's a must you check out the hoaxbuster web site, the essay about selling your soul in particular. lucifer is the being in the ball of fire that said it was god when moses asked who was in there. that makes lucifer the father of jesus. you could be in for a surprise when you stand before the real god, claim you're saved, worthy to enter his kingdom and were in on the torturous death of his only son.

good luck. you're gonna need it.

The Man Himself was known as a drunkard and a glutton, a friend of tax collectors and sinners. He said, "It all boils down to this: Love God and love your neighbor as yourself." Then we get these freakin religious wackos who have parsed all the verses and spout a bunch of nonsense. They've either not thought about the fact that this religious talk has to fly for everyone everywhere or they've thought about it and fanaticism has numbed them to the fact that they need to throw it out and get busy living.

Saddened for you and the rest of you fundamentalists: read a book besides the Bible. Perhaps a history book about the Bible. Heck, even the Jefferson Bible would be preferable. Maybe then you'll open your mind to another perspective. The Bible is a collection of literature from several civilizations that bear little resemblance to ours. It's written by multiple authors, most of whom are unknown. It doesn't matter what any of those books say about heaven or hell. They're as reliable about the subject as Dante's Inferno, which is complete fiction.

Chuck Colson is just a messenger. Out of his concern for your eternal destiny, he is trying to share the Good News (that we CAN go to heaven if we do what God says). If you don't believe what Chuck said, go read the Bible yourself - because God said it. So if you reject Jesus and not make it into heaven, please don't give any excuse to God that no one has ever told you so. Chuck did.

Chuck Colson is just a messenger. Out of his concern for your eternal destiny, he is trying to share the Good News (that we CAN go to heaven if we do what God says). If you don't believe what Chuck said, go read the Bible yourself - because God said it. So if you reject Jesus and not make it into heaven, please don't give any excuse to God that no one has ever told you so. Chuck did.

Everyone deserves to be confined to the Lake of Fire for all eternity. For reasons known only to God He chooses to have mercy on a select few (the elect), and give them the grace to repent and receive Jesus Christ, who is the only way to heaven.

Much more about this is posted on my website at http://www.BethelMinistries.com on how you can be saved from your sins (and eternal suffering in the Lake of Fire).

Don't try to make sense of it, just repent of your sins and receive Jesus Christ, thereby proving that you are one of the elect. That is your only hope.

OK; first off the question was do you believe in Heaven and hell not "do you like Chuck Colson".
Second someone posted "if you believe our scientists.." no I don't; they base so many things on speculation that I think it takes more faith to believe them than to believe in God.
As Chuck stated God gave us a choice to believe in Him and His word (the Bible) or not. If there is life after death (and I believe there is) then you will have to exist somewhere. If you choose not to spend eternity with God then you will be in hell; the place that God provided for people such as yourself. As Chuck stated God does not want you to choose hell but He does not force Himself on you so He gives you the choice. I am not trying to force Christianity on you; if God won't then I should not either - I am just trying to make sure people are aware that, like all choices, you have to live with the consequences of that choice.
So I believe you can choose God's Way through Jesus Christ or choose to be away from God forever and exist in hell after your physical death.
I don't think that people can really imagine what life would be like in hell; 100% with out compassion, love, sympathy etc. Satan is none of those things; they will not exist in hell.
Think about it; PLEASE!!
Mike

How about the guy who says Chuck Colson is one of the great thinkers of our time...?
Did you mean to say infamous instead of great? Did you miss the evening news, or did you not know that dear Chuck is the author of the Nixon enemies list? And watergate burglar, nixon crony, the "evil genius of an evil administration".

Hell won't be big enough.

Sir: We are told the WORD of our creator comes from the writings published in the BIBLE. I am reminded about a passage written in the novel CATCH 22 where an obviously distraught individual wonders how so much misery could ever have been accepted as BELIEF by the masses when the authors could not even explain the mechanics of rain. And lets not forget the text of other authors left out of the BIBLE by the Church's meeting in the 12th century.

Faith is FAITH, period, and ONLY belief. The mind the creator bestowed upon us makes use of the logic we use everyday. Sadly, those who follow only the written words of the BIBLE as a way of life refuse to exercise their minds when reality comes into play. Why else would those who preach the value of life be so ready to take life by executions in the name of justice? Why else would normal appearing parents sentence their young girls to possible cervical carcinoma and death by denying them a vaccine in the hope they remain virtuous? The list goes on, and it is sad.

If Revelations is to beBELIEVED, then in such case I would think that when the creator arrives, and looks around, he will be pissed!

tony

Colson's statement is typical fundamentalist nonsense. Heaven and hell are just as mythological as the Adam and Eve story and other myths written down long ago by authors who had more excuse than we do to believe what they were writing.

We don't go anywhere when we die. To ask where a person goes when he dies is like asking where the fire goes when the fire goes out. It doesn't go anywhere. It just stops. And that is what happens to our consciousness.

Consciousness is a fragile thing - it depends entirely on a certain state of the brain. If you have ever watched a personality disintegrate due to Altzheimer's then you must realize how totally dependent consciousness is on the condition of the brain. Consciousness cannot even survive anasthesia or anything else that changes the normal state of the brain. How then could it survive the death of the brain?

Does this make life not worth living? On the contrary. It makes it all the more valuable, because, as the poet said, "We shall not pass this way again." Our happiness in this life does not depend in any way on whether we have a second life. So make something of your life. It is the only one you will ever have.

John - just because CS Lewis said there were only three options doesn't make it true.

Consider a fourth option: Legend

The logical answer, Chuck, is Pandeism: God became the Universe to answer God's only burning question, what is the experience of being an entity with limited power? That is us, we are God's experience of limitation.... our Heaven is the good that we do for one another, our Hell is the harm we cause one another -- and according to at least one well-set-out theory of Pandeism our reward or punishment in the next world will be, in the very act of returning to God (as all surely will), experiencing the good we did and the harm we did to others!! That is the truth of Pandeism!!

Well, there are a lot of interesting comments here! Folks, I think it really boils down to this: Who is (was)this man named Jesus, who claimed to be the Messiah, the Christ, God in the flesh? I agree with C.S. Lewis when he said that there are only 3 options open to this question. Jesus was either: 1) a liar (who deliberately told falsehoods about himself; 2) a lunatic (who truly believed these things about himself but were false); 3)the Lord of the universe. Afet studying the Bible for over 30 years, I am convinced that was was neither a liar or a lunatic. That leaves just one option open...He is Lord. And if that is the case, we are all accountable to Him. I made my peace with Him many years ago, and it's the best thing I have ever done.

Unbelievable, in one word, religion completely explained. Religious followers constantly exort their superiority to "believers" of science and those who genuinely try to explain the things that surround us. Religion/Churches/Popes killed and/or tortured how many convicted of heresy? (read; explaining that earth was indeed not the center of the universe, the planetary orbits were not round(in case you were busy praising god while those discoveries were made, they all turned out to be true, but science has it all wrong?... go figure)) Religion says "what created the world if not god?" If god is all powerful, and we all offer our lives to him and his unending wisdom and glory, then why do we not attribute the horrors and mayhem to him as well. It seems he's been given a "free pass" on the evils of the world and yet he is free to claim every one of the smiles and newborn babies. There is always a thanks to god for every accomplishment, but never any responsibility assigned to him for the trials that we must endure. I must say in closing that while I do not align myself with a religion, I do offer room to those that do. Tolerance is something that I disagree with every religion about and if it is God who indeed decides, I am certain that there will be no shortage of preachers in hell.

Charles Colson is one of the great thinkers of our time - and a changed person from the 70s that some refer to. I encourage you to read some of his writings if you think otherwise. His reliance on the Bible for the reality and nature of heaven and hell and how to get there is also reasonable as well as a matter of faith. Belief in Ultimate Reality (God) is inside all of us - and the truth of Jesus Christ as the way to an everlasting relationship with God is available to all who respond positively toward that basic belief in God.

Wow! You guys are something. If you believe our scientists, humans as we know them have been around for a million years give or take a few hundred thousand years. There have been most likely hundreds, thousands or more beliefs in a supreme being over that time. If you believe in a or the supreme being my hat is off to you. Religions are designed and built by men. The real issue regarding Heaven and Hell is that they are part of the Christian and Islamic religious culture and exist by virutue of these two newer man made religions. It is part of the process of punishment vs. rewards. Pay the price, by cash or deeds and get the rewards of heaven. If you don't you go the other way. Heaven and Hell do not exist in the same sense in other religions nor probably did they exist in exactly same way by previous religion designers. What makes you guys so smart and the Egyptians, Babylonians, Jews and others such fools?

Jesus Christ is THE way, THE truth, and THE life. No one comes to the Father (in Heaven) except through belief in Jesus. Please read John 14:6, and then ask the Holy Spirit to open your spiritual eyes, heart, and ears. This Spirit of the Living God will bring truth and revelation to you. Please don't pass up your free pardon with your name on it to enter heaven. You have to receive the pardon for it to be valid. Jesus died for you, for your personal pardon for all of your sins.

It took me over 35 years to "get this", surrender to the truth of Jesus, and I am SO GLAD I know for absolutely sure I am going to spend eternity in heaven. (I was a New Age Nut before I was born-again.)

Don't be afraid of this. Open your heart and ask God to reveal the truth to you. HE will.

The book of Mormom, Alma Chap 34 v.8-10

8 And now, behold, I will testify unto you of myself that these things are true. Behold, I say unto you, that I do know that Christ shall come among the children of men, to take upon him the transgressions of his people, and that he shall atone for the sins of the world; for the Lord God hath spoken it.
9 For it is expedient that an atonement should be made; for according to the great plan of the Eternal God there must be an atonement made, or else all mankind must unavoidably perish; yea, all are hardened; yea, all are fallen and are lost, and must perish except it be through the atonement which it is expedient should be made.
10 For it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice; yea, not a sacrifice of man, neither of beast, neither of any manner of fowl; for it shall not be a human sacrifice; but it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice.

MAYBE YOU HAVE NOT READ YOUR BIBLE. LUCIFER WAS THE HIGHEST ANGEL WHO THOUGHT HE WAS BETTER THAN GOD. HE IS THE REASON THERE IS A HELL. I WOULD NOT WANT TO SERVE SOMEONE WHO WAS THE VERY REASON PEOPLE WILL PERISH. DO YOU GET WHAT IM SAYING?

Chuck is on it. Go Chuck.

I agree with the other poster; if going to heaven means standing next to Chuck Colson; I'll take hell. Chuck Colson prison ministry? Well I certainly think prison is the right place for you - as an inmate.

God doesn't send people to hell? God CREATED hell you fool.

I am always surprised at the hate that some people have for Christians. Especially when they say we should all get along. I think the replies from Christians show that they are the one that love others. The replies from those against christianity are full of insults and name calling. But even with that I would say please don't base your feeling about God by his flawed followers because we still sin and act from improper motivations and many have claimed to be God's followers only for person gain or power.

God does love everyone. We are all his children. He made the sacrifice of his son Jesus for everyone. While you still have breath it is never too late to accept Jesus.

When God created the earth it was paradise. Only sin caused that to change and sin is the reason for all the suffering in the world today. God does not want us to suffer but until he comes makes the world anew we will each page the wages of sin in this world.

I would be very happy if everyone that posted or has read this forum were with me in heaven some day.

Jesus did all the work. You just have to accept it.

If you truly understand reality, you must know that this universe existed long before you became conscious, and will continue to exist long after you cease to be conscious in it. That much you know to be true, for certain.

So, there will be a place called "the future", even if all humans destroy each other by their own stupidity. Where is this "future", and how do you get there?

A thousand years from now, a sentient creature looks up at the stars and proclaims "I exist". He feels certain that he exists, just as you feel certain that you exist now, and I feel certain that I exist.

Will that sentient creature live in a time of happiness or sadness?

If you were to go to sleep at the end of your life, and wake up as that sentient creature, would you find your world to be heaven or hell? What can you do today to help sway the course?

I FEEL SORRY FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF JESUS CHRIST. I WILL NEVER LET ANY UNBELIEVER TAKE AWAY MY SALVATION. YOU CAN NOT SAY ONE THING THAT WILL CHANGE MY MIND. ANYONE WHO HAS POSTED A COMMENT ON HERE THAT IS A CHRISTIAN KNOWS WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE HATED BECAUSE OF WHAT WE BELIEVE. CHRIST WAS ALSO HATED FOR WHO HE WAS. WE ALL HAVE A FREE WILL. IF NON BELIEVERS ARE SO OPEN MINDED TO THE WORLD THEN WHY WON'T ANY OF YOU BE OPEN MINDED TO CHRIST. IT IS THE BEST DECISION YOU COULD EVER MAKE FOR NOT ONLY YOURSELF BUT FOR YOUR CHILDREN AS WELL. IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THEN THIS EARTH WILL BE AS GOOD AS IT GETS FOR YOU. THIS IS THE ONLY HEAVEN YOU WILL EVER KNOW. BELIEVERS IN CHRIST WILL SPEND ETERNITY IN A REAL HEAVEN. THIS EARTH IS THE ONLY HELL WE WILL EVER KNOW.

I FEEL SORRY FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF JESUS CHRIST. I WILL NEVER LET ANY UNBELIEVER TAKE AWAY MY SALVATION. YOU CAN NOT SAY ONE THING THAT WILL CHANGE MY MIND. ANYONE WHO HAS POSTED A COMMENT ON HERE THAT IS A CHRISTIAN KNOWS WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE HATED BECAUSE OF WHAT WE BELIEVE. CHRIST WAS ALSO HATED FOR WHO HE WAS. WE ALL HAVE A FREE WILL. IF NON BELIEVERS ARE SO OPEN MINDED TO THE WORLD THEN WHY WON'T ANY OF YOU BE OPEN MINDED TO CHRIST. IT IS THE BEST DECISION YOU COULD EVER MAKE FOR NOT ONLY YOURSELF BUT FOR YOUR CHILDREN AS WELL. IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THEN THIS EARTH WILL BE AS GOOD AS IT GETS FOR YOU. THIS IS THE ONLY HEAVEN YOU WILL EVER KNOW. BELIEVERS IN CHRIST WILL SPEND ETERNITY IN A REAL HEAVEN. THIS EARTH IS THE ONLY HELL WE WILL EVER KNOW.

If you truly understand reality, you must know that this universe existed long before you became conscious, and will continue to exist long after you cease to be conscious in it. That much you know to be true, for certain.

So, there will be a place called "the future", even if all humans destroy each other by their own stupidity. Where is this "future", and how do you get there?

A thousand years from now, a sentient creature looks up at the stars and proclaims "I exist". He feels certain that he exists, just as you feel certain that you exist now, and I feel certain that I exist.

Will that sentient creature live in a time of happiness or sadness?

If you were to go to sleep at the end of your life, and wake up as that sentient creature, would you find your world to be heaven or hell? What can you do today to help sway the course?

Heaven is a perfect, sinless place, the abode of God. It logically follows that you can't get in with your sin. If you don't believe that, just give it a try sometime! Or you can try getting into heaven while clothed in the righteousness of Jesus Christ Himself, which is his free gift to you.
Your choice to accept it or reject it.

If God sends independent minds to concentration camps (hell) he is worst than Hitler, since a) hell is for eternity, and b) he send you for being independent (rather for being against him).

You may call such deity good because, as in Nazi Germany, you are afraid to call things by their name. I can understand that.

Yea, he does not send you, you send there yourself. Hitler also used that.

If you truly understand reality, you must know that this universe existed long before you became conscious, and will continue to exist long after you cease to be conscious in it. That much you know to be true, for certain.

So, there will be a place called "the future", even if all humans destroy each other by their own stupidity. Where is this "future", and how do you get there?

A thousand years from now, a sentient creature looks up at the stars and proclaims "I exist". He feels certain that he exists, just as you feel certain that you exist now, and I feel certain that I exist.

Will that sentient creature live in a time of happiness or sadness?

If you were to go to sleep at the end of your life, and wake up as that sentient creature, would you find your world to be heaven or hell? What can you do today to help sway the course?

If you truly understand reality, you must know that this universe existed long before you became conscious, and will continue to exist long after you cease to be conscious in it. That much you know to be true, for certain.

So, there will be a place called "the future", even if all humans destroy each other by their own stupidity. Where is this "future", and how do you get there?

A thousand years from now, a sentient creature looks up at the stars and proclaims "I exist". He feels certain that he exists, just as you feel certain that you exist now, and I feel certain that I exist.

Will that sentient creature live in a time of happiness or sadness?

If you were to go to sleep at the end of your life, and wake up as that sentient creature, would you find your world to be heaven or hell? What can you do today to help sway the course?

If you truly understand reality, you must know that this universe existed long before you became conscious, and will continue to exist long after you cease to be conscious in it. That much you know to be true, for certain.

So, there will be a place called "the future", even if all humans destroy each other by their own stupidity. Where is this "future", and how do you get there?

A thousand years from now, a sentient creature looks up at the stars and proclaims "I exist". He feels certain that he exists, just as you feel certain that you exist now, and I feel certain that I exist.

Will that sentient creature live in a time of happiness or sadness?

If you were to go to sleep at the end of your life, and wake up as that sentient creature, would you find your world to be heaven or hell? What can you do today to help sway the course?

It is abslolutely heart breaking that most people reject the gospel. I agree that "religion poisons everything." However, God did not create religion, Satan created religion; he is a lie and the father of it. Jesus didn't come to start a religion. He came to "seek and to save that which is lost." God does not hate sinners, he hates the sin. There is most definately a heaven and a hell. God created hell for Satan and the angels that followed him. The Bible says that hell enlarges daily. People were not meant to go there. It has to get bigger because people reject the gift of eternal life that God offers us. The Bible says that the wages of sin is death, BUT the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Wages are something you earn. So basically, we spend our whole lives earning hell. God doesn't send people there, people go there because they reject his gift. Sin is rebelling against the Perfectly Just, Almighty God. God cannot tolerate sin and his love for us cannot over-ride his justice. That would be corruption. Would you want police officers to be tolerant of crime? God sent his only begotten son ,Jesus Christ, to die in our place. There he shows his love for us and still maintains His perfect justice. Would you send your child to die for people who hated you? The fulfillment of the hundreds of prophecies given in the Bible is the absolute proof that it is the inspired Word of God. They are detailed, giving names, places, and certain times. Check out the history for yourself. It is undeniable. That is what Simon Greenleaf did, the co-founder of Harvard Law School. No other so-called sacred book gives ANY correct prophecies, much less with 100% accuracy like the Bible. I see there are several people here who believe in extraterrestrials and evolution. This world is not billions of years old, there are no aliens on other worlds, evolution and life starting from nonliving material are mathematical impossibilities. I challenge everyone who believes these things to read the Bible, King James version for English speaking people, and do the research. I can't post about all of that stuff because this one is long already. If you are truly searching, God will reveal Himself to you and will completely change your life if you let him. The Bible, the very words of God, is true from the very first verse. I'll never understand why people reject the gospel. Jesus Christ, God Almight in the flesh, came to earth through a virgin birth to pay the infinite penalty that His own perfect justice requires. He died on the cross bearing our sins in his body and was raised from the dead. The people living before Jesus was born got saved because they believed that God would send a Saviour to pay their sin debt. They simply trusted the true God, the God of Israel. That is all that is required for salvation! BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. The word believe means to trust, to rely upon. I am relying upon Jesus to get me to heaven, because there is nothing that anyone can do to earn it. This is The Truth. And just to clear something up from a post I just read, God does not just send someone to hell because he so chooses. That is rediculous and cruel. However, Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. It is far better to do it now than to spend an eternity in the very real hell.

Chuck Colson is not expressing his point of view but Holy Scirptures point of view thus God's view. I believe what God's word teaches me that it is His will that all be saved but that we get to choose. For those that will blast me as narrow minded and ignorant I simply say that if I am wrong I am fine and still will be in heaven. If you are wrong you will spend a never ending eternity in the darkness and horrors of hell.

Ashley;
You must have only read the last part of my confession. I made that statement only as a "if nothing else makes sense" argument for those seeking some sort of truth. You must havemissed the part where I said I have a relationship with Christ. I've chosen to love Him and acknowledge Him. My beliefe system is not guided by fear as some are suggesting. Salvation is not supposed to be an insurance policy against a poorly lived life. It is in its most genuine form an expression of love for the One I accept as my creator. I didn't marry my wife because I was afraid the ugly girl next door-I did so out of love. My relationship with God is based on the same concept of love, not fear of fire.

In the greek new testament when it says that he chose us it is more expanded in the greek, It is a verb in the middle voice which means he chose us out from the one he didn't chose but for himself for his own purpose. Further in the greek the word which is translated "church" is by translate "out called ones" the chosing is not on our part but is all on Gods side of the new testament covenant of faith. It is all by faith and no where is belief mentioned in the Pauline writings. Belief is a noun and faith is a verb requiring actions.

Over two thousand years ago Pilot asked the question "What is truth?" After reading all the responses to Mr. Colson's comments, it is obvious that it is still unanswered by most. I put my trust in the only one who IS TRUTH and worthy of my trust, Jesus Christ. Not you, not Mr. Colson, not religion, not the church, and certainly not me.

Here are some selected verses from John Chapter 3:

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[h]

35The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."[l]

God's Word is very clear...accept His Son (Jesus) and receive eternal life (Heaven)...reject His Son (Jesus) and receive God's wrath (Hell)

TP

Joe,
I find your argument that it's better to believe and be wrong than take the chance otherwise to be, at the least, inane. If you really believe just to cover your bases, then you should believe in all sects and all religions, shouldn't you? I mean, what if Islam is the correct faith and Christianity's a hoax? Better brush up on your Qu'ran. And don't forget your Torah, in case Judaism's the right one after all. And then there are all the Eastern religions, like Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto etc. How about the different sects of Christianity? And my goodness, there are an awful lot of old religions people don't believe in anymore, like worshipping the old Greek and Roman gods, or the Egyptian gods. Have you paid homage to Mother Earth lately? Don't forget Druidism or to celebrate with like-minded Wiccans either. You know, just in case.
Please. People believe in religions because they're terrified of death and the unknown. That, or they'd rather have someone else make their decisions for them.

I can now truly see why they say these networks are Liberal. Most of these postings come from people who have no idea who God is yet probably claim to be Christians. No wonder many say Democrats are Godless.

If you fail to research God's word for yourself, I am afraid you will get your request and I guarantee that what you say now, you won't feel that way on judgement day. God made it very simple, all you have to do is accept or reject. Hollywood has glamorized hell to the point you think you will be having a party. If I were you I would read Revelations and see exactly what you are getting into.

Joe,
I find your argument that it's better to believe and be wrong than take the chance otherwise to be, at the least, inane. If you really believe just to cover your bases, then you should believe in all sects and all religions, shouldn't you? I mean, what if Islam is the correct faith and Christianity's a hoax? Better brush up on your Qu'ran. And don't forget your Torah, in case Judaism's the right one after all. And then there are all the Eastern religions, like Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto etc. How about the different sects of Christianity? And my goodness, there are an awful lot of old religions people don't believe in anymore, like worshipping the old Greek and Roman gods, or the Egyptian gods. Have you paid homage to Mother Earth lately? Don't forget Druidism or to celebrate with like-minded Wiccans either. You know, just in case.
Please. People believe in religions because they're terrified of death and the unknown. That, or they'd rather have someone else make their decisions for them.

Joe,
I find your argument that it's better to believe and be wrong than take the chance otherwise to be, at the least, inane. If you really believe just to cover your bases, then you should believe in all sects and all religions, shouldn't you? I mean, what if Islam is the correct faith and Christianity's a hoax? Better brush up on your Qu'ran. And don't forget your Torah, in case Judaism's the right one after all. And then there are all the Eastern religions, like Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto etc. How about the different sects of Christianity? And my goodness, there are an awful lot of old religions people don't believe in anymore, like worshipping the old Greek and Roman gods, or the Egyptian gods. Have you paid homage to Mother Earth lately? Don't forget Druidism or to celebrate with like-minded Wiccans either. You know, just in case.
Please. People believe in religions because they're terrified of death and the unknown. That, or they'd rather have someone else make their decisions for them.

Well, this subject is always the center of ridicule ignorance, and lack of willingness to listen to one another. Its not that you believe what you believe and I believe what I believe kind of thing. Religion was made by man for man. Christ was sent to earth because man sinned and made a mistake and God in His loving mercy and forgiveness sent Himself in the form of man (Christ) to die for all of us. If God wasn't as loving as He is, He would have never sent His son Christ to die for us. After that it is up to us to decide. It is amazing how people don't realize what hell will truly be like. Think of the worst thing or pain that you have ever experienced in your entire life and times that by 100. For eternity you will be experiencing that. No thank you. I admit there have been a lot of messed up mindsets about heaven and hell. Christ is the saving grace that has allowed us to go the Heaven. He is the bridge that connects us with God. Christians are human and we make mistakes too. Give us some slack. No one will ever know what is on the mind of God. Now humans by any standards are not perfect. So why just because we are Christians people should think we have all the answers. We don't only God holds the answers to your questions. I have questions too. This discussion is just amazing. Some people who have studied the Bible have forgotten what Jesus said :" I (Jesus) am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father (God)except through me (Jesus) John 14:6. Read the Bible with an open mind, it would blow you away.

To answer Paul H's question on those who came before Christ. God did send prophets and preachers before He sent Christ. People knew of the coming of Christ they just didn't know when. Then, when Christ came in the lowest form possible, (in a manger, a feeding troth for animals) many over looked Him. Why because man doesn't realize that God is humble. Jesus didn't come in with a bang. Hope that somewhat helps.

Saddened for you- I will pray with you for all those who are in such denial and unbelief. I have seen to many instances of proof that God exists to physically not be able to deny Him. The Bible does state that God gave us free will. It is our choice to choose Him. He is deeply saddened when people don't. It is like a parent is saddened that the child they raised turns to drugs and violence. They want to protect them but they know that the child needs to suffer the concequences of their actions. How else will they learn? Those of you who question God's compassion need to understand that. Do you let your children run rampant without punishment for the wrongs they do? If they curse at you or beat you up, do you just let them go without punishment? I know some do, as that is why we have so much crime among teens and children these days.
RWLG- The term Christian means a follower of Christ. Yes, Christ and his mother and his disciples were all of Jewish descent. They went to Heaven because they believed in Christ as God's only son and that only through belief in Him will they have everlasting life in Heaven. Anyone can go to Heaven. You just have to choose to repent and ask God to forgive your sins (and sincerely mean it) and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour of your life. It states in the Bible That God wishes that none should perish, but that all repent and turn away from their iniquities so that they may have everlasting life with Him. I don't know about you all, but that sounds a whole lot better than being in a place totally devoid of God's grace, love, understanding, and boundless mercy.
For those of you who say all christians are hypocrits? You're absolutely right. We are! And I am proud of that fact! You know why? because No body is perfect. I know I am far from perfect! But the difference between you and I is that I TRY to live a life that would be pleasing to God. I pray daily, I ask for forgiveness daily, I worship God and Jesus in all that I do, I help the needy, the orphaned, the widowed, the lost whenever I am able to, sometimes at my own expense. (For example: gas for a week, or food for a local homeless shelter for a month?) Do I fall short? You bet! But God knows that I am not perfect. As long as I ask for forgiveness with a repentent heart, it will be given to me. Don't you want that kind of freedom? Freedom from the fear of death? I have it and I would love to help someone else receive that kind of freedom because there is nothing else like it anywhere!

Listen up everybody !!! Go to your favorite bookstore and buy a copy of a book titled "god is not GREAT - How Religion Poisons Everything".
Read this with a clear and open mind and see how/if it affects your beliefs.

Wow, we Christians are not veiwed very favorably, are we? Perhaps some of it is our own fault. After all, how can we profess to be "one" in Christ when we profess so many denominations or interpretations of our Holy scripture? It is no small wonder those who do not profess a Faith in God look at us and scratch their heads sometimes.
Nonetheless, to answer the question, yes, I am a Believer and follower of Christ, ackowledging Him as the risen Son of God and accepting Him as my personal savior, and I believe in His words and teachings. Therefore, I wholeheartedly believe in Heaven and Hell, however they may be defined. The more important issues raised here are the separatists ideas that Christians are accused of having. Yes, many of our brothers are misguided to believe and blab that God hates sinners, and that if you are not "wtih us", then you must certainly be against us. True followers of Christ do not hold to that false ideology at all. We follow the example that Christ set for us, being in the world, dining with "unchurched" people, assisting when and where we can regardless of background, and praying that we might show forth some aspect of the true Christ to those we come in contact with. Christianity, as with any philosophy, is unfortunately practiced and taught by imperfect people who have either misunderstood the Gospels, or intentionally perverted it for their own profit. And those who are critical of us have not taken the opportunity to study Christianity-they merely react to the flood of misrepresentation of many Christians. Shame on us Christians for not living and correctly relaying the Good news of Christ; shame on our critics for falling for propaganda.
I choose to believe-no one forced me. If in the end I'm wrong, so be it. I'd rather live as if Heaven and Hell exists, and be wrong, than live as if they don't exist and be wrong! God loves you-not just a cliche. God bless you.

Listen up everybody !! Go to your favorite bookstore and buy a copy of a book titled "god is not GREAT - How religion Poisons everything" by Christopher Hitchens. This is not a book for those with a closed mind. READ it and read it carefully and with a clear and open mind. You will not be so sure of your religious beliefs any more.

God is not man. He does not think as a man, he does not perform as a man, which means he does not have to answer to any man.

No one is perfect which is why God wants us to depend on him since He is perfect. Even Christians try to live "separately" from God, and we fail ourselves, God, and non-believers. Christianity is a life of faith. And it is in this faith where we experience God's direction.

When we live a part from God, we separate ourselves from direction, his will for our lives, but never his love. He loves everyone unconditionally, even those at the beginning of time. He only asks us to believe and accept his love. We have every opportunity, every day we live and breathe to accept his love. Only when we have drawn our last breath, and never accept his gift of love do we experience his judgment.

Too many people are receiving the wrong message of God's love. I grew up among lots of people whose lives reflect the epitome of Christianity, but when no one was around, they were anything but. I renounced my faith as a teen until I realized that their life had nothing to do with mine. If I loved God, and truly accepted his love, I would be an example to those in doubt. I know it’s hard to believe in something you cannot see, touch, or hear, but when you truly believe in God and accept his love, he becomes the source of something you can see, touch, and hear.

God is not man. He does not think as a man, he does not perform as a man, which means he does not have to answer to any man.

No one is perfect which is why God wants us to depend on him since He is perfect. Even Christians try to live "separately" from God, and we fail ourselves, God, and non-believers. Christianity is a life of faith. And it is in this faith where we experience God's direction.

When we live a part from God, we separate ourselves from direction, his will for our lives, but never his love. He loves everyone unconditionally, even those at the beginning of time. He only asks us to believe and accept his love. We have every opportunity, every day we live and breathe to accept his love. Only when we have drawn our last breath, and never accept his gift of love do we experience his judgment.

Too many people are receiving the wrong message of God's love. I grew up among lots of people whose lives reflect the epitome of Christianity, but when no one was around, they were anything but. I renounced my faith as a teen until I realized that their life had nothing to do with mine. If I loved God, and truly accepted his love, I would be an example to those in doubt. I know it’s hard to believe in something you cannot see, touch, or hear, but when you truly believe in God and accept his love, he becomes the source of something you can see, touch, and hear.

God is not man. He does not think as a man, he does not perform as a man, which means he does not have to answer to any man.

No one is perfect which is why God wants us to depend on him since He is perfect. Even Christians try to live "separately" from God, and we fail ourselves, God, and non-believers. Christianity is a life of faith. And it is in this faith where we experience God's direction.

When we live a part from God, we separate ourselves from direction, his will for our lives, but never his love. He loves everyone unconditionally, even those at the beginning of time. He only asks us to believe and accept his love. We have every opportunity, every day we live and breathe to accept his love. Only when we have drawn our last breath, and never accept his gift of love do we experience his judgment.

Too many people are receiving the wrong message of God's love. I grew up among lots of people whose lives reflect the epitome of Christianity, but when no one was around, they were anything but. I renounced my faith as a teen until I realized that their life had nothing to do with mine. If I loved God, and truly accepted his love, I would be an example to those in doubt. I know it’s hard to believe in something you cannot see, touch, or hear, but when you truly believe in God and accept his love, he becomes the source of something you can see, touch, and hear.

G*d's a perfectionist now? That's funny!!! Who cares what path you chose to turn to G*D as long as a path is chosen. What about strivng for spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection? Human being are not "Perfect" and will never be perfect. If humans were meant to be perfect, spotlessly correct, etc. we would be discussing this.

could you all stop for one moment , put aside your thoughts and consider this : There is this man " GOD " who one day decides he wants to create a place , this beautiful place for these beautiful creatures that have his likeness , they are given free will to make their own minds up as to what they feel and belive : as a test of faith or connection if you will to him . He laid out this set of rules or guideline to how they should spend their time here. He test us always to see if that connection is still strong and unwaivering and rewards us accordingly ( if we fail then he knows we are not ready for more responsibilites or if we succeed the test then we have proven our connections is there and are rewarded , that reward may be more responsibilites or just a reward of some kind . He never said life would be easy or all fun with no sickness, its just a mere test of faith for those who chose to belive always in him and that connection we all feel . I dont know about the rest of you but I dont think I came from some monkey or fish , if thats the case why are there still monkeys and fish , why did some change and all.

Beliver for ever

Bgone

The religious whackos will master bomb building.
They are intelligent and determined to be with Allah in paradise.The 72 virgins is just gravy.
They are not stupid.Just religious.

reading the comments of some of the writers,gives me a better understanding of why our country,and society as a whole is utter chaos.After reading these comments I felt led to read Psalm 37.For all you non-believers I will continue to pray for you that you will someday accept Christ as your personal savior.God is real and so is his wrath. Dan

"Chuck's version of a "fracious offer" is really a Hobson's choice: "love me or I'll torture you" isn't the kind of thing a loving father does for his children."

No doubt it 'hurts him more than it hurts us.' And it's all our own fault, really. Odd, how God here so resembles a certain kind of father (and not a heavenly one . . .)

The Bible does says each and every person can have a personal relationship with the almighty, without an intermediary.

A messiah brings brings holiness to the world, but you don't worship him.

But if, as Colson says, only Christians go to heaven, does that mean Jesus himself, as well as the Virgin Mary, who were devout Orthodox Jews, wouldn't be in Heaven?

The Bible does says each and every person can have a personal relationship with the almighty, without an intermediary.

A messiah brings brings holiness to the world, but you don't worship him.

But if, as Colson says, only Christians go to heaven, does that mean Jesus himself, as well as the Virgin Mary, who were devout Orthodox Jews, wouldn't be in Heaven?

Right on Kevin. http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul Now about that God that dishes out all that grace.... Are you familiar with the Devil? If you go to a Moses inspired church, temple, synagogue or mosque you are for Devil IS your God.

The big money goes to those who lead the multitudes to hell. Saying the Devils is God does not make the Devil God but we know it makes Him happy. Look at all the grace. He must be a happy little Devil. Don't you think? I guess not.

Some of these posts are filled with anger and pain. I am surprised and saddened as I read through them. I read this blog when I saw Chucks name because he has always been someone that I thought that I admired, based upon a casual understanding of his story. He has always been someone who I believe is committed to service. He made huge mistakes, he paid his debt and drove on, forward. What about that engenders so much hate? His personal beliefs about Christianity?

I am saddened to read your remarks. God is definitely a loving God, but he is also a righteous God who requires perfection. The only way we can be perfect is through the spotless blood of the lamb, Jesus Christ. Just as we aren't sent to Jail, we choose to go their by disobeying the laws of the land. We are not sent to Hell, we choose to go their by disobeying the laws of the Most High God. Heaven is open to all who accept him. It makes my heart hurt for those of you who are so hardened against Him. I will tell you this...there will come a day when you will stand before God and be judged. The only way into Heaven is to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior. If you choose to reject Him in this life, you will spend eternity in Hell. I know some of you have flippintly make remarks about Hell, but you have no idea what it is like. It is the only place that is the COMPLETE absence of God, and it will be never ending Torture, you will not have the opportunity to choose Christ after you are there, and I can promise you that you will forever be wishing that you had. I do not know you, but I pray that your hearts be softened and that one day, you come face to face with the truth of the Word of God and that you choose to accept it. There is always forgiveness in Christ as long as you are living...but there will come a day when you have waited too long and it will be too late. I pray you find the truth before that day.

Heavenly Father, I pray that even as someone reads these words that their heart would be opened to you and that the Word of God would be revealed in their heart. I ask that you reveal your spirit to them so that they may know you and come to love you. I pray that one day, they will stand before you and be able to say, "Yes, I accepted your son Jesus Christ as my savior and it is only through His blood and your Grace that I may enter the Kingdom of Heaven". Thank you Lord for saving me, and I look forward to the day that I may bow at your feet and worship you for eternity.

In the matchless name of Jesus,

Amen

Curious, Yo-yo's predictions won't come true if the religious never get the science. The fact that doctors did the terrorist deed tells me the end is at hand. Let us hope they were phony doctors with enough education to pass for the real thing.

Somewhere I heard that science and religion are getting together, working out their differences. Maybe God didn't just create the universe but rather created a teacup size glob of matter, lit the fuse and then jumped back away from the blast? I would agree that man may not have ascended from the monkey, the ascend part anyhow. Monkeys are smarter than religious fanatics, don't need to worry about them blowing the earth away. Can one be religious without being fanatical?

Chuck Colson is right on! His message is clear and God's grace is the one thing that will save us from a permanent spot in hell. It amazes me that when you ask the question "If not God, then how did our existence come about?" the majority of people have nothing to stand on. Take a look around, God is part of our life each and everyday! Go Chuck!

Thank you, Debby. The Gospel in plain, simple terms! Yes, I believe.

Thank you, Debby. The Gospel in plain, simple terms! Yes, I believe.

Thank you, Debby. The Gospel in plain, simple terms! Yes, I believe.

Why is everyone so bitter about Christians. Chuck is right on with the facts. We are given the opportunity by Christ to make our choice. Whether that choice is to follow in his teachings and receive his salvation by just simply asking or do it your way and think that your good deeds will get you there. I have chosen the first and I can't believe that anyone in their right mind when asked if you want to spend an eternity with gnashing of teeth or in the presence of God with no pain, no tears, no wants, no physical impairments would choose gnashing of teeth.
You can repent your sins by simply asking God for forgiveness and spend an eternity with him. I DID and I will miss you in heaven.

Go Chuck......!

It's very simple. Those who Repent (admit they are sinners and invite God into their lives) and Believe (that Jesus was sent by God, born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified to pay for our sins and was resurrected) are going to heaven.

Mr. Colson,
I don't know your history, but way to lay it out there. That's the Bible truth I know with none of this wishy-washy purgatory garbage inserted by a corrupt church seeking to make money on candles, mass cards, and contributions.

Tony,
Don't paint all "christians" with the same broad brush. There are some of us who fall under that particular classification who follow only the Bible; believe that the only way to heaven is through salvation under the blood of Jesus and a repentant, changed life; and condemn the greed, liberalism, hypocrisy, and general departure from the Gospel preached by Christ that is so prevalent in "christianity" today.

As for the rest of you. You've spoken so many lies and blasphemy of the Messiah, that I'm scared to even read your words for fear that they will linger in my mind.

Interesting point in the latest acts of homicidal lunacy in the UK.,some of the terrorists were doctors. which shows the awesome power of religious indoctrination to trump intelligence and higher education.
Where will it all end? I believe it's only just beginning,and with time these religiously deranged murderers will build better bombs,and will do greater and greater damage,enough one day,to kill us all.

yoyo wrote:

"Superstitious ideas seem likely to destroy us all,
given enough time.
It just seems inevitable,and so ironic."

I think what is inevitable and ironic is that SCIENCE is what seems more likely to destroy us all. Science, that created the nuclear weapons, and the chemical weapons, and the ability for mass destruction. And if all of our technology-based systems which science developed died tomorrow, how many of us in the "civilised" world who have become so dependent on them do you think would survive?

Religions were invented in mankind's infancy,when
nobody knew anything about anything.
Fear and ignorance ruled. There was no distinction between the real and the unreal.Clouds were prayed to along with the wind and the sun and the moon and the stars:and the idea of a Superman in the sky required no stretch of the imagination.
And it must have been comforting,and made as much sense as anything else in those ancient times.
Trouble is,this kind of thinking was clung to,and passed down the ages from father to son,on and on through generation after generation after generation.
And now here we are in the 21st century,in this incredible new world built by science,while millions still cling to these ancient superstitions,and believe so strongly in an afterlife that some blow themselves up to go to some imagined paradise in the sky.
Woe is us.
Superstitious ideas seem likely to destroy us all,
given enough time.
It just seems inevitable,and so ironic.

I'm all for the free exchange of ideas, but why is the Washington Post, the very newspaper that exposed Colson and all the other President's Men, giving a forum to him? I'm all for forgiveness, but it is difficult to take moral advice from someone who's moral compass seems to have been non-existent for several years during the Nixon presidency.

To Mr. Mark, Kenneth, Hermit

You won't like it.

The bible mainly speaks of 'hell' (translated from Greek or Hebrew) as a grave, big cave down in the earth, etc. There is, though, reference to a consuming fire (greek 'gahenna') what will consume (that is, the lake of fire...after the final great white throne judgement - following millenial reign of Christ on earth)..not with red horned beings with pitchforks or turning people on a spit forever and ever. All myth with no biblical basis whatsoever. Just as going to heaven is a widespread deception. Scripture speaks of those who sleep in the grave until the resurrections. Yes, two resurrections. Very clear scripture states no man has ascended to heaven. Gods kingdom will be set up on this earth, with a new heaven and earth following the millenial reign of Christ and the great white throne judgement. The adversary certainly has had his part in deceiving most of mankind thru the ages, as Rev 12:9 informs us.

The religious have not seriously considered the arguments against religion or they would not believe anymore. All religions posit ridiculous beliefs that no reasonable person who was not raised in that faith could possibly accept. Here’s the Aztec creation myth (below). Does any reader find this story credible? if you looked at Christianity or Islam, etc. from an unbiased perspective, they would seem just as ludicrous as the Aztec stories.

The mother of the Aztec creation story was called Coatlique (the Lady of the Skirt of Snakes). She was created in the image of the unknown, decorated with skulls, snakes, and lacerated hands. There are no cracks in her body and she is a perfect monolith (a totality of intensity and self-containment, yet her features were square and decapitated).

Coatlique was first impregnated by an obsidian knife and gave birth to Coyolxanuhqui, goddess of the moon, and to a group of male offspring, who became the stars. Then one day Coatlique found a ball of feathers, which she tucked into her bosom. When she looked for it later, it was gone, at which time she realized that she was again pregnant. Her children, the moon and stars did not believe her story. Ashamed of their mother, they resolved to kill her. A goddess could only give birth once, to the original litter of divinity and no more. During the time that they were plotting her demise, Coatlique gave birth to the fiery god of war, Huitzilopochtli. With the help of a fire serpent, he destroyed his brothers and sister, murdering them in a rage. He beheaded Coyolxauhqui and threw her body into a deep gorge in a mountain, where it lies dismembered forever. The natural cosmos of the Indians was born of catastrophe. The heavens literally crumbled to pieces. The earth mother fell and was fertilized, while her children were torn apart by fratricide and then scattered and disjointed throughout the universe

Sir: I've read the last few posts, and am wondering what it is that they mean. My point was that religion today attempts to overtake us all who do not want to be judged by hypocritical priests, want-to-be Cotton Mathers and the supposed Christian Right. Just listen to them: they do not Baptize you; they do not marry you; they do not visit you when you are sick; they do not bury you; they do not pray for you when you are gone. They do, however, ask for your dollars while you are alive, just as those money changers long ago. They, those who feed on the faithful, lead jouous lives of the privileged while condescending to those sheep and lemmings who blindingly follow. This is religion?

Tony

Bertrand Russell
Fear,the Foundation of Religion
Religion is based,I think,primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown and partly the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes.
Fear is the basis of the whole thing-fear of the mysterious,fear of defeat,fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty,
and therefore it is no wonder if religion and cruelty have gone hand in hand.It is because fear is at the basis of those two things. In this world we can now begin a little to understand things,and a little to master them by help of science,
which has forced its way step by step against the Christian religion,against the churches,and against the opposition of all the old precepts. Science can help us to get over this craven fear in which mankind has lived for so many generations. Science can teach us,and I think our own hearts can teach us,no longer to look around for imaginary supports,no longer to invent allies in the sky,but rather to look to our own efforts here below to make this world a fit place to live in,instead of the sort of place that the churches in all these centuries have made it.
Bertrand Russell
"Why I Am Not A Christian"

God is so busy running the universe that he/she/it doesn't have time to worry about your cancer, scrofula or indigestion. If you believe otherwise you are pathetically narcissistic. If fear of Hell is the only thing that keeps your behavior ethical then you are an ignorant savage. The "golden rule" is pretty much the only framework I feel I need. Is it Heaven, Hell or the cold,cold ground? We will never know till after the fact. I don't believe a human sacrifice was neccesary to expiate my sins. I would never be so blasphemous as to expect that from a loving God.

God is so busy running the universe that he/she/it doesn't have time to worry about your cancer, scrofula or indigestion. If you believe otherwise you are pathetically narcissistic. If fear of Hell is the only thing that keeps your behavior ethical then you are an ignorant savage. The "golden rule" is pretty much the only framework I feel I need. Is it Heaven, Hell or the cold,cold ground? We will never know till after the fact. I don't believe a human sacrifice was neccesary to expiate my sins. I would never be so blasphemous as to expect that from a loving God.

TONY

Whatever is responsible for us being here is nothing like we would like to believe. The lion feasts on the flesh of the antelope. "Fish must die so man can eat." Death for every living thing is a certainty and violent death is all about us.

We have built into our consciousness all we need to cope with death. It's extremely simple, even the least of us mentally must be capable of understanding.

We have been given the ability to imagine ourselves, after death in a new world not all that different from this world and with the same people. We are also given a fear of death. That's a damper that prevents us from committing suicide. Religion, all religion ATTACKS us at that very vulnerable mental location.

The hoax buster has put that into picture form and gone into the written historical record where he found the oldest known ATTACKS on the mind. Religion can be reduced to a demon, a monster that straddles, blocks our passage from this life to the next life.

http://www.hoax-buster.org has an in depth analysis of the NEBOL BRIDGE, how religion adds fear to our natural fear of death, can be reduced to a ROAD BLOCK on the NEBOL BRIDGE and some of the history of those who created religions. It's necessary to go over the entire site to find it all but patience will be rewarded.

Sort out those thing concerned with the NEBOL BRIDGE and the picture becomes perfectly clear.

Sir: I am a Christian. A Catholic. I believe in God as faith, but know also, logically, the second link of a chain cannot exist without the first. An unmoved mover exists. However, this force, this something to which we owe our existence, must be very alarmed at the existents it created. If God, the name ascribed to this force, is pleased with creation, then it must be saddened(if it has HUMAN qualities) at the state of affairs surrounding those who would advance its greatness while at the same time shunning those who would lead a life secular instead of non-secularism attributed to it.

The founding fathers of this nation escaped the Churh of England as one of the curses put upon them. Even now, in Iraq, most Americans wish for a secular democracy free from the Sharia of Muslin religion and law. At home however, these same Christian believers wish for their beliefs to be enacted into law for the whole of the United States?

There is rampant hypocricy in this land today, and it is advanced by those who preach the name of God while also taking stances which devide this nation as surely as those who would advance the Sharia in Iraq against the "infedels".

I believe in God. I know an unmoved mover exists. I do not believe in religion. It is truly "the opiate of the masses".

Tony

A HERMIT, I love ya! I love ya! Now put that hot poker down.

Mr Mark, you certainly want to go the the "other place" and not where Chuck is headed.

Born again is another way of saying one has sold one's soul to Devil. Jesus was fathered by the being Moses made the deal with, http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul When you feel the "warmth of Jesus" don't be surprised at how hot it gets.

If you believe that God is loving and compassionate, then he would be at least as loving and as compassionate as any man. So, I don't see too much chance that God would cast people into a Lake of Fire, or whatever you think Hell is; I know I wouldn't, and I am just a man. As far as simple compassion goes, that is an easy call.

On the other hand, I suppose God could do anything, and not necessarily be loving and compassionate. But it cannot be both ways. This is the problem with Born-Again-Right-Wing-Christian-Fundamentalism; they wallow in the idiom of love, and make the word and concept of love the centerpiece of their religion; yet they do not love anyone who is not one of them, and in fact, do they barely love each other.

They are the supreme and ultimate hypocrites.

It is people like them who give Christians and Christianity a bad name.

Where do you begin with such ignorance? What can you really say to someone as old as "chuck" who has only known christianity his whole life? He's probably heard every counter argument in the books so whats the point?

You, chuck, and the cult of christianity have done more harm then good on this little marble spinning around a star in one of an unfathomable amount of galaxies in this one of possibly unfathomable amount of universes.

I believe it was Nietzsche who said "in an infinite amount of time, every finite thing that can occur will occur"
this being the case in another time from now, i will be posting this same message at this same desk on a planet called earth in some galaxy somewhere...when i think about this in truth, what would it matter then that you believe in something so foolish as christianity and why should your beliefs matter to me?

Well it matters to me because i have to deal with all the crap christianity and other religions release from their supposed knowledge of an ultimate being...you all don't know sh__ and no one ever has known but while we are all here on this rock we should just try and make it better for everyone instead of separating and dividing and casting people agaisnt one another because they don't believe in the same diety.

people like you have the bodies of old men but the minds of children, who have walked through life on a fantasy coated whim

Romans 9:20 wrote: "Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?"

Yea, O God, make Thee not that which can question Thee and Thee shall suffer no questioning.

The facts:

God sends sends some sinners to hell and He saves others.

God will save who He chooses. He is not obligated to save anyone at all. Anyone that is saved from hell is saved purely by His grace.

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." Romans 9:14

You say, "that's not fair!"?

His response:

"But who are you, O man, to talk back to God?" Romans 9:20

The facts:

God sends sends some sinners to hell and He saves others.

God will save who He chooses. He is not obligated to save anyone at all. Anyone that is saved from hell is saved purely by His grace.

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." Romans 9:14

You say, "that's not fair!"?

His response:

"But who are you, O man, to talk back to God?" Romans 9:20

Brilliant as usual Mr. Colson.

It's most illuminating to see how sanitized Colson's bio at the top of this page is. Nowhere is he listed as a "Watergate burglar," "Nixon crony," or "convicted felon." This site displays the "Washington Post" and "Newsweek" brands, but evidently feels that it only has to choose those parts of the story that it wants to publicize. So much for journalistic credibility.

Mr. Mark

Yeah, Firefox does the same thing for spelling errors; as is so often the case the flaw is in the user, not the software...

Regards

A (sloppy) Hermit

Your response is exactly how I would respond. Great job!

If God is compassionate, he wouldn't allow us to go to hell, even if we didn't accept his offer. If boy in wheelchair refuses our help in crossing the street, do we let him get crushed by the semi speeding his way? No. Are our human feelings of compassion above that of the almighty God's?

A HERMIT:
that should have read "Gracious offer"...

Note to self, rember two cheque spieling..."

I don't know what browser you're using, but I just downloaded the Beta version of Mac's Safari 3 browser. It includes an MS Word-style spell check. Well, at least it redlines words that are misspelled. It doesn't have a dictionary that offers options to correct the errors, or at least I haven't found it.

I find this new functionality a real bonus when posting on this blog where spelling is the least of one's concerns and the owners of the site provide no assistance in the spell check department. On the other hand, the Beta version won't open web-based pdfs (I assume a fix will appear soon enough).

Chuck Colson appears to have a strong sense of faith. Presumably those who are saved and go to Heaven, in Mr. Colson's mind, are those who find Christ. Why would a just God only expose a relatively small number of people to His truth? Why would He leave the remainder with a much reduced chance of salvation?

It is unlikely that intelligent beings on other planets know of the Christ who lived in the Middle East 2000 years ago. There are famously more stars in the observable universe than grains of sand on all the beaches and deserts on Earth. It is hard to believe that God wasted so much time and space. He must have created intelligence elsewhere.

If Christ is "the" son of God, not "a" son of God, where does that leave the intelligent creatures who died before Christ preached, those who live in other parts of the universe, and those who were never exposed to Christ on Earth?

Might the soul not simply be consciousness, a property of the universe, just as gravity, electro-magnetism, and the nuclear forces are? Some part of this property of the universe gets incorporated into a developing body and then leaves it when the body can no longer function. Why are Heaven and Hell the destinations that must await this freed consciousness? Humans like categorization, justice, and neatness. We want to make sure that those who do what we find abhorrent get punished for it.

We humans are so filled with our own sense of importance that we think we have "dominion over the Earth." Our planet, after all, was the center of the universe during most of the reign of humanity. Disagree too publicly and one could be executed.

In what way would our lives, our planet, our solar system, our galaxy, and our universe be different if there were no God who was involved with all our thoughts and actions? If the universe cared not at all about us, how would things be different?

that should have read "Gracious offer"...

Note to self, rember two cheque spieling...

I agree, if Chuck (and people like him) are going to heaven, I'll choose hell too.

Chuck's version of a "fracious offer" is really a Hobson's choice: "love me or I'll torture you" isn't the kind of thing a loving father does for his children.

I'm with Mr. Mark; if there is a hell that's where the thinkers and artists will be. Chuck's heaven will be full of brainwashed Republican robots...

If going to heaven means spending an eternity with people like Chuck, then I'll take hell.